Metagame [SPOILERS] Scarlet & Violet OU Discussion [BAN LIST POST 626]

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Hazard stack is something I think will pick up quite a bit as the meta develops. So many good Pokémon got spikes and t spikes added to their movesets, and now we have Gholdengo. Correct me if I’m wrong, but as far as I know Good as gold blocks defog, which is crazy. He’s legit the ultimate spin blocker
Yeah the Cheese String Man blocks things like defog since it lowers evasion
 
Maushold @ Wide Lens
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Population Bomb
- Crunch
- Tera Blast
- Tidy Up
maushold is scary tidy up boost speed and att by 1 and removes all hazards including screens and substute
then population bomb hits ten times then if you include wide lence hit all ten 99 percent of the time
 
Maushold @ Wide Lens
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Population Bomb
- Crunch
- Tera Blast
- Tidy Up
maushold is scary tidy up boost speed and att by 1 and removes all hazards including screens and substute
then population bomb hits ten times then if you include wide lence hit all ten 99 percent of the time
You know, Maushold gets bite, so you can use that with Technician.
 
Anyway terraziliation however you spell it is broken by definition its free chocie item with no drawbacks. when home adds back in charazard and its still not removed you cand run scarf solar power with the breaking power of specs and heatran isn't in the game
also the chin-pao pokemon have no switchins after terrazlitions
+1 252 Atk Choice Band Absol Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. -1 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 270-318 (88.8 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
absol as substitute
+1 252 Atk Choice Band Absol Crunch vs. -1 252 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar: 191-225 (47.2 - 55.6%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Choice Band Absol Crunch vs. -1 252 HP / 200 Def Clefable: 212-250 (53.8 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
and this mon has 135 speed and this is with a +speed nature
 
I mean, I’m sure this has been talked about to death, but I want to post about the Blue Hero anyway, and a set that I think has a niche in this chaotic meta.



:Palafin-Hero: Palafin-Hero :Palafin-Hero:


Tera Sweeper


Palafin-Hero @ Punching Glove
Ability: Zero to Hero
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Jet Punch
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Bulk Up



The anti sweeper sweeping mon, Palafin-Hero boasts a jaw-dropping 160 base attack, comparable to the power of Hoopa-Unbound and stronger than Groudon, Rayquaza, and even post nerf Zacian-Crowned. Though it has a respectable speed tier with base 100 speed, this set of Palafin-Hero relies on its STAB Jet Punch, a 60 BP priority move which, when combined with Terrastilization, allows it to easily leave a large dent-if not outright kill-threats to your team. Bulk up allows you to develop both a boost to your sky-high attack and your defense, allowing you to survive hits from would-be checks and resists such as :Roaring Moon: Roaring Moon and :Baxcalibur: Baxcalibur.



For these two, Drain Punch serves as an excellent coverage move and a decent recovery option, allowing Palafin-Hero to last longer on the field. Additionally, Ice Punch serves as alternate coverage, with its main target being water absorb :Clodsire: Clodsire. Each of the punching moves get a slight boost from the new item Punching Glove, while also having the benefit of protecting against effects such as Static, Flame Body, and Rocky Helmet.



The main drawback of Palafin-Hero deals with its ability, Zero to Hero. To access Hero Form, Palafin needs to switch out from their :Palafin: Zero Form, a significantly weaker fish. This means that your opponent has a free turn to do whatever they wish; set up, get hazards up, attack into a predicted switch, etc. This leaves two options for this set, either leading and pivoting out to a bulky mon such as :Clodsire: Clodsire, :Corviknight: Corviknight, or :Toxapex: Toxapex, or catching your opponent on a switch, leading you back to another pivot. There’s unfortunately no room for Flip Turn on this particular set, which would’ve made for an otherwise seamless pivot.



Good partners

:Grimmsnarl:

Paladin-Hero appreciates dual screens setup. Grimmsnarl, thanks to its priority screens can come in, get screens up, and parting shot out to bring Palafin-Hero in.



:Clodsire:

Clodsire is built to be a bulky special wall, but importantly it handles Grass and Electric types that would otherwise threaten a Palafin that isn’t set up yet or is otherwise walled. Clodsire can also double as a hazard setter, allowing Palafin to claim more one hit kills.



Checks/Counters

:Meowscarada:

Meowscarada’s signature Flower Trick is a 70 base power Grass move that always crits and ignores accuracy. This move has a 56% chance to OHKO, which becomes a clean OHKO after rocks. On the other side of it, Jet Punch barely misses out on a 2HKO at +1; you either live and drain/ice punch or die.



Bulky waters: Bulky water mons such as Toxapex, Quagsire, and Slowbro can easily shrug off hits from Palafin-Hero. The first two can easily haze off any boosts and status Palafin in return, shutting down their potential.



:Iron Bundle:

Iron Bundle outspeeds and OHKOs with Freeze-Dry, while resisting Palafin’s priority move. Not much else to say here honestly, you should have Iron Bundle chipped or dead before beginning your sweep.
 
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Imagine double choice item pokemon
like dragapualt
+1 252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 56+ SpD Clefable: 229-270 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Heatran: 172-204 (44.5 - 52.8%) -- 82.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock an
yeah broken stuff
 
Anyway terraziliation however you spell it is broken by definition its free chocie item with no drawbacks. when home adds back in charazard and its still not removed you cand run scarf solar power with the breaking power of specs and heatran isn't in the game
also the chin-pao pokemon have no switchins after terrazlitions
+1 252 Atk Choice Band Absol Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. -1 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 270-318 (88.8 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
absol as substitute
+1 252 Atk Choice Band Absol Crunch vs. -1 252 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar: 191-225 (47.2 - 55.6%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Choice Band Absol Crunch vs. -1 252 HP / 200 Def Clefable: 212-250 (53.8 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
and this mon has 135 speed and this is with a +speed nature
Imagine double choice item pokemon
like dragapualt
+1 252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 56+ SpD Clefable: 229-270 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Heatran: 172-204 (44.5 - 52.8%) -- 82.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock an
yeah broken stuff
That’s not how Terastallizing works.
For Tera types that don’t match your original type, it gives moves that match that Tera type STAB. So if you say Terastallize Flutter Mane into a Fire type, it gets Ghost/Fairy/Fire STAB.
For Tera types that match one of your original, it’s the same as Adaptability, which mathamatically means a x1.33~ (4/3) bonus.

And frankly I have found better use with using this mechanic defensively, and not just for making something like Chein-Pao Poison to resist some priority, but actually really useful on things like Garganacl who doesn’t have Poison moves or is a sweeper.
 
should payback be doubled in power when shedtail is used in front of it cause it currently doesnt, but the way the move reads I think it should
 
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spatula

I LOVE CHIPFLAVOUR
is a Tiering Contributor
Iron bundle is the goat btw, im running specs with freeze dry/ice beam/pump/tera blast with tera ground

another really good mon i am trying is iron treads. tons of utility, decent typing, and good stats. feels like it will be a very good glue mon for a lot of teams
 
Chien Pao is weavile 2.0
when the meta is sorted put it will be just like weavile from last gen It has a broken abilty and good fighting covrage for beating up steal types
it will probably have a banded and a swords dance set
somthing like
Chien-Pao @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Sword of Ruin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Ice Spinner
- Sacred Sword
- Crunch
or
Chien-Pao @ Choice Band
Ability: Sword of Ruin
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Crunch
- Ice Spinner
- Psychic Fangs
- Sacred Sword

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1714925367
also funny replay
 
For Tera types that match one of your original, it’s the same as Adaptability, which mathamatically means a x1.33~ (4/3) bonus.
So if you Tera Hyredigon to be Dark you get Super STAB Dark Pulse 1.5 STAB *1.33 Tera does that seem about right? And this effect also stays even if you switch out.
 
I don't want to complain and all, but honestly Shed Tail should have just been pre-banned like Koraidon, Miraidon, and you know, BATON PASS?
Like for fucking real, Shed Tail is arguably an even more broken version of Baton Pass. You pass a 50% HP Sub AND Pass it to some insane fucking sweeper the same turn, letting you not only compress move slots but also amount of turns into one move and one turn. AND it's something you can't even replicate with Baton Pass and Sub because it's fucking 50% HP Subs.
And for Fucking Christ's Sake ban fucking Booster Energy All Fucking Ready. It's literally a free fucking Choice Scarf or Choice Band/Specs. Literally every team needs to run Flutter Mane and Iron Valiant, with the Energy Booster, because every other fucking team runs them.

And you know what, little rant about some Smogon policies, because there is a lot of fucking shit that gets by and policies that make no fucking sense. Shit like unbanning Moody in Gen 8 because it doesn't boost Evasion, or letting Sand Veil/Snow Cloak go by for multiple generations until very late in Gen 8 did it get finally banned when it should be banned by default. There is a fucking Evasion Clause but some how doesn't fucking include Evasion Boosting moves or Items. Or even some of the Pokemon they unban to "see" if it'd be fine this gen (spoilers they don't) or even right now. I can at least see why you're want to test something like Flutter Mane or Chein-Pao even early on, even if it's pretty obvious they'll be banned. What I don't see is why a fucking 650 BST Pokemon with perfectly fine stats, movepool, and it's "hindering ability" being literally fucking nothing wasn't even Ubers along side the box legendaries, Baton Pass 2.0, and Drawbackless Choice Items. And yeah, Palafin isn't the most broken Pokemon currently, but that like saying "Oh you got a 98? Well Timmy got 101!" with what it stands with.

Rant over. I just hope smogon learned their lesson in Gen 8 and to be more proactive and make some smarter decisions this time around. Hopefully in the near future at least.
 
50% HP Subs.
Playing devil's advocate here for a tiny bit here, but despite many people asking the question, I haven't seen confirmation of if Shed tail is a 50% or 25% Sub in-game. Which mean the 50% Sub could be poor implementation on Showdown's part. 50% or 25% is the difference between a free setup or "only" a free switch-in in plenty some matchups.
Devil's advocate off. I believe a 25% HP sub is still enough to be problematic. Multiples changes favor offense, and a free switch-in in such an environement is extremely valuable.
Edit: "plenty" might have been an exageration.
 
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earl

hell yeah
is a Community Contributor
I don't want to complain and all, but honestly Shed Tail should have just been pre-banned like Koraidon, Miraidon, and you know, BATON PASS?
Like for fucking real, Shed Tail is arguably an even more broken version of Baton Pass. You pass a 50% HP Sub AND Pass it to some insane fucking sweeper the same turn, letting you not only compress move slots but also amount of turns into one move and one turn. AND it's something you can't even replicate with Baton Pass and Sub because it's fucking 50% HP Subs.
And for Fucking Christ's Sake ban fucking Booster Energy All Fucking Ready. It's literally a free fucking Choice Scarf or Choice Band/Specs. Literally every team needs to run Flutter Mane and Iron Valiant, with the Energy Booster, because every other fucking team runs them.

And you know what, little rant about some Smogon policies, because there is a lot of fucking shit that gets by and policies that make no fucking sense. Shit like unbanning Moody in Gen 8 because it doesn't boost Evasion, or letting Sand Veil/Snow Cloak go by for multiple generations until very late in Gen 8 did it get finally banned when it should be banned by default. There is a fucking Evasion Clause but some how doesn't fucking include Evasion Boosting moves or Items. Or even some of the Pokemon they unban to "see" if it'd be fine this gen (spoilers they don't) or even right now. I can at least see why you're want to test something like Flutter Mane or Chein-Pao even early on, even if it's pretty obvious they'll be banned. What I don't see is why a fucking 650 BST Pokemon with perfectly fine stats, movepool, and it's "hindering ability" being literally fucking nothing wasn't even Ubers along side the box legendaries, Baton Pass 2.0, and Drawbackless Choice Items. And yeah, Palafin isn't the most broken Pokemon currently, but that like saying "Oh you got a 98? Well Timmy got 101!" with what it stands with.

Rant over. I just hope smogon learned their lesson in Gen 8 and to be more proactive and make some smarter decisions this time around. Hopefully in the near future at least.
bro chill its like a week with broken shit. Just enjoy the chaos, we have 3 years to figure it out and there's no real harm in testing as much as possible

edit: do ban shed tail asap tho that move is so nasty
 
Gonna play my own devil's advocate here and say while I certainly understand the urge to ban Shed Tail (and while I don't necessarily agree yet, I also very much don't disagree), I also think it's something that really needs to wait until we have some of the more overpowering threats gone. I can think of a number of things that help deal with it that just aren't seeing play right now due to the top-tier threats being the likes of Flutter Mane and Chien-Pao. Namely, Dragapult's already been brought up, and I think Breloom and Maushold will be making appearances when the metagame settles a bit. Maybe even Cloyster too, but that one's more "part of the OU Cycle" to me as something that gets a little time to shine when metas are at a certain spot but then fades out again. As of right now, the only thing seeing any use that can immediately shut it down is Taunt Grimmsnarl. That will change, and I think we should give it time to do so. But once again, that change may not be enough, which I'd completely understand.
 
So far, ting-lu has been my MVP. It's like tapu fini on crack. Super tanky and can be hella annoying with stuff like taunt/sand tomb/ruination (reskinned nature's madness).
Agreed, but I've also been experimenting with it as a phazing mon (especially with Rocks and Spikes). Pretty fun, especially to get out sweepers.
 
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