Well, people are saying Volcarona is going to be really good, so maaaaayyybe? It's very likey to be outclassed by Tyranitar, but at least it doesn't have to worry about being chipped into range of Savage Spin-Out or missing Stone Edge. And I guess it can make use of Brick Break and Drill Run to prey on the Tyranitar and Heatran being used to stop Volcarona, Blacephalon, and Naganadel.
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Metagame [SPOILERS] ULTRA SM - Speculation & Discussion
- Thread starter Gary
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Dusk Lycanroc... the subtracted speed really hurts, since it's now in that super crowded 110 speed tier, and in a tier that is going to be super loaded with steel types and Hawlucha and rain teams...... Gonna be rough for the dog. I see it dropping, and most likely landing in RU or NU, but maybe I'll be surprised by it.
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
Wow, look at all this discussion about the fun new toys we're gonna get in USUM! Time to wreck it by adding in some depressing drops!
Alolan Marowak's days in OU are numbered. While a good amount of better OU mons got access to cool new tutors, Alolan Marowak's best new option is... Throat Chop. And it's not like it's currently fine, that this'll only be a minor setback. Its popularity has been nosediving for the past few months. Trick Room is the only playstyle where it can actually do anything nowadays. And it's not like Trick Room is some incredible playstyle that's dominating the meta. Unfortunately, Alolawak's niche just won't be good enough anymore, and it'll likely fade to UU within a few months of USUM's release.inb4 it pulls an RU Donphan and sticks around because low ladder is full of idiots
Spell "obsolete". Tapu Fini is another mon, which, much like Alolan Marowak, has crashed and burned in usage and viability recently. Defog is basically the one thing it's really good at, and even then it has to compete with Mantine, Pelipper and Skarmory for that slot. Now, come USUM, and we get a whole slew of new viable hazard control choices: Landorus-Therian, Tapu Koko, a potential resurgence for Gliscor and Rotom, and I'd wager that even Serperior and Klefki have more to offer as Defoggers than Fini does. Assuming this thing stays in OU at all, I could honestly see it dropping to the C ranks, which is absurd for a Pokemon that used be top 4 in usage.
Alolan Marowak's days in OU are numbered. While a good amount of better OU mons got access to cool new tutors, Alolan Marowak's best new option is... Throat Chop. And it's not like it's currently fine, that this'll only be a minor setback. Its popularity has been nosediving for the past few months. Trick Room is the only playstyle where it can actually do anything nowadays. And it's not like Trick Room is some incredible playstyle that's dominating the meta. Unfortunately, Alolawak's niche just won't be good enough anymore, and it'll likely fade to UU within a few months of USUM's release.
Spell "obsolete". Tapu Fini is another mon, which, much like Alolan Marowak, has crashed and burned in usage and viability recently. Defog is basically the one thing it's really good at, and even then it has to compete with Mantine, Pelipper and Skarmory for that slot. Now, come USUM, and we get a whole slew of new viable hazard control choices: Landorus-Therian, Tapu Koko, a potential resurgence for Gliscor and Rotom, and I'd wager that even Serperior and Klefki have more to offer as Defoggers than Fini does. Assuming this thing stays in OU at all, I could honestly see it dropping to the C ranks, which is absurd for a Pokemon that used be top 4 in usage.
Is Koko getting Thunder Punch and Iron Head worth mentioning? Though it does less damage than wild charge, the lack of recoil with T-Punch is nice - especially if you want to run defog and pivot in and out frequently. Iron Head also gives it a viable steel move for a physical set (Brave Bird and U-Turn were the only other usable moves before ultra), might such a set be possible, or just wishful thinking?
Tapu Koko @ Choice Band
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thunder Punch
- Brave Bird
- Iron Head
- U-turn
A shame it didn't seem to get Play Rough. A second physical stab would be nice.
Tapu Koko @ Choice Band
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thunder Punch
- Brave Bird
- Iron Head
- U-turn
A shame it didn't seem to get Play Rough. A second physical stab would be nice.
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INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned deucer.
I really think the new meta will really hurt Chaney, fini, mantine, the latis, and most 1 time stackers of hazards. I really don't think think stuff like bisharp will get much better cause glicor will just stab e quake it or katana will just secret sword and etc.
I could see rain and sand doing really good checking a lot of important mobs and toppex is insane
I could see rain and sand doing really good checking a lot of important mobs and toppex is insane
On the other hand, the fact that OU will have all these new defogger will be highly beneficial to Alowak, as it will have a lot less problem to be fitted in balance thanks to hazard removal being easier. Also, the fact that Tapu Koko will probably rise even more in usage because of the added utility of defog is another good point for him, then it is one of the few mons that can 100% wall it. Finally, if Dawn Wing end up staying in OU, it could be a huge bonus for trick room, as it basically is a less passive Cresselia, which could therefore impact the viability of Marowak. But still, I am not sure wether or not this can counterbalance all the flaws cited before...
Naganadel
Naganadel will probably be the most viable despite having the lowest BTS of all four 'mons. Dragon + Poison + Fire is glorious coverage and this Pokémon hits really hard after a Nasty Plot, has a great Speed tier and is only outsped by the likes of Scarf Greninja and Scarf Tapu Koko when at +1.
Scarf Naganel is also really interesting as it can afford to go for Special Attack boosts while still getting the jump on Scarf base 110s. I don't think this set will be nearly as good as Nasty Plot, but it will still be pretty good.
Still, Heatran and Chansey are all great switch ins to this Pokémon and its bulk doesn't allow for as much set up opportunities as it would wish for, but I still think Naganadel will be meta defining.
Viability-O-Meter: C- C± C+ B- B± B+ A- A± A+ S±
Brave OTR is in my opinion the best set cuz' it is a great anti-offense tool and is still a decent enough of a wallbreaker to justify in some teams, that colossal bulk also gives it plenty of defensive utility as well meaning it also happens to be a great Stealth Rock setter.
Lonely OTR is a more offensive approach thanks to the Beast Boosts and can be a decent late game cleaner after the opponent's team is weakened enough, Fightium Z is nice for Ferrothorn and other Steels.
Choice Band is almost like Choice Band Tyranitar in a way, as it hits slightly harder and provides similar defensive utility, but on the physical side, reminder that TTar's typing also sucks. I feel like OTR will be better but this is still a decent set I guess.
Still, this mon has one big weakeness, and that's Lando-T, which isn't even 4HKO'd by Gyro Ball and has a 62.5% chance to OHKO with Earthquake. Also it's reliablity on Trick Room or Choice Band to work properly is really undesirable as it is kind of dead weight without the Speed or Attack boost.
Viability-O-Meter: C- C± C+ B- B± B+ A- A± A+ S±
This thing is for sure gonna be a great Scarfer, beats Magearna and Volcarona and still has a ton of power behind its moves even with no boosting item.
I also think a Calm Mind + Z-Move set will be equally viable, taking advantage of Mind Blown and turning it into a 200 BP Z-Move. At first it may not seem like Blacephalon has many opportunities to set up, but in reality, the likes of Ferrothorn and Celesteela can't really touch it, and it can set up on switches as Pheromosa did when it was around.
Choice Specs is another option that I don't think will be nearly as good as the first two but I still think it will be a interesting breaker since it hits absurdly hard.
Well, it looks good on paper, but anything ranging from Balance to Hyper Offense has the tools to take it down thanks to 53 / 53 / 79 bulk and base 107 Speed tier, additionally, Scarf Sets can be taken advantage of by either opposing Scarfers or Bulky Pokémon in general, in addition, the likes of Tyranitar, Chansey and Toxapex are great walls capable of dealing with it without much struggle.
Viability-O-Meter: C- C± C+ B- B± B+ A- A± A+ S±
Zeraora will be a great pivot in USUM, but I think it will have to run a physical set making use of its coverage not to get outclassed by Tapu Koko. That's why I believe the physical set has the most potential as Plasma Fists, Close Combat, and Fire Punch / Knock Off is really good coverage. Bulk Up also lets it set up and be more of a threat while Volt Switch makes it a great pivot.
While Suboptimal in my opinion, Mixed has some viability to it, as the physical set gets completely walled by Landorus-T, and Hidden Power [Ice] along with the SpA investment allows it to 2HKO both Landorus-T and Gliscor considetring their current EV Spreads.
However, even though I love Zeraora, I don't think it will be as viable because of how weak it is, it will face severe competition from Koko and I'm not sure how effective it will manage to even be.
Viability-O-Meter: C- C± C+ B- B± B+ A- A± A+ S±
Mod Edit: Read OP. Don't post pictures of new Pokemon.
Naganadel @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Wave
- Fire Blast
- Nasty Plot
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Wave
- Fire Blast
- Nasty Plot
Naganadel @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 88 HP / 252 SpA / 168 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Wave
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Ground]
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 88 HP / 252 SpA / 168 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Wave
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Ground]
Scarf Naganel is also really interesting as it can afford to go for Special Attack boosts while still getting the jump on Scarf base 110s. I don't think this set will be nearly as good as Nasty Plot, but it will still be pretty good.
Still, Heatran and Chansey are all great switch ins to this Pokémon and its bulk doesn't allow for as much set up opportunities as it would wish for, but I still think Naganadel will be meta defining.
Viability-O-Meter: C- C± C+ B- B± B+ A- A± A+ S±
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StakatakaStakataka @ Rockium Z / Fightium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
IVs: 0 Spe
Brave Nature
- Gyro Ball
- Stone Edge
- Trick Room
- Stealth Rock / Superpower
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
IVs: 0 Spe
Brave Nature
- Gyro Ball
- Stone Edge
- Trick Room
- Stealth Rock / Superpower
Stakataka @ Fightium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
IVs: 15 Def / 0 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Gyro Ball
- Stone Edge
- Superpower
- Trick Room
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
IVs: 15 Def / 0 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Gyro Ball
- Stone Edge
- Superpower
- Trick Room
Stakataka @ Choice Band
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
- Gyro Ball
- Stone Edge
- Superpower
- Earthquake
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
- Gyro Ball
- Stone Edge
- Superpower
- Earthquake
Lonely OTR is a more offensive approach thanks to the Beast Boosts and can be a decent late game cleaner after the opponent's team is weakened enough, Fightium Z is nice for Ferrothorn and other Steels.
Choice Band is almost like Choice Band Tyranitar in a way, as it hits slightly harder and provides similar defensive utility, but on the physical side, reminder that TTar's typing also sucks. I feel like OTR will be better but this is still a decent set I guess.
Still, this mon has one big weakeness, and that's Lando-T, which isn't even 4HKO'd by Gyro Ball and has a 62.5% chance to OHKO with Earthquake. Also it's reliablity on Trick Room or Choice Band to work properly is really undesirable as it is kind of dead weight without the Speed or Attack boost.
Viability-O-Meter: C- C± C+ B- B± B+ A- A± A+ S±
---------------
BlacephalonBlacephalon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Mind Blown / Trick / Psychic
- Smack Down
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Mind Blown / Trick / Psychic
- Smack Down
Blacephalon @ Firium Z / Ghostium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Mind Blown / Psychic
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Calm Mind
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Mind Blown / Psychic
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Calm Mind
Blacephalon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Mind Blown / Fire Blast
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Trick
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Mind Blown / Fire Blast
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Trick
I also think a Calm Mind + Z-Move set will be equally viable, taking advantage of Mind Blown and turning it into a 200 BP Z-Move. At first it may not seem like Blacephalon has many opportunities to set up, but in reality, the likes of Ferrothorn and Celesteela can't really touch it, and it can set up on switches as Pheromosa did when it was around.
Choice Specs is another option that I don't think will be nearly as good as the first two but I still think it will be a interesting breaker since it hits absurdly hard.
Well, it looks good on paper, but anything ranging from Balance to Hyper Offense has the tools to take it down thanks to 53 / 53 / 79 bulk and base 107 Speed tier, additionally, Scarf Sets can be taken advantage of by either opposing Scarfers or Bulky Pokémon in general, in addition, the likes of Tyranitar, Chansey and Toxapex are great walls capable of dealing with it without much struggle.
Viability-O-Meter: C- C± C+ B- B± B+ A- A± A+ S±
---------------
ZeraoraZeraora @ Life Orb / Electrium Z
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Close Combat
- Fire Punch / Knock Off
- Volt Switch / Bulk Up
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Close Combat
- Fire Punch / Knock Off
- Volt Switch / Bulk Up
Zeraora @ Life Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 156 Atk / 100 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Close Combat
- Work Up / Volt Switch
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 156 Atk / 100 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Close Combat
- Work Up / Volt Switch
While Suboptimal in my opinion, Mixed has some viability to it, as the physical set gets completely walled by Landorus-T, and Hidden Power [Ice] along with the SpA investment allows it to 2HKO both Landorus-T and Gliscor considetring their current EV Spreads.
However, even though I love Zeraora, I don't think it will be as viable because of how weak it is, it will face severe competition from Koko and I'm not sure how effective it will manage to even be.
Viability-O-Meter: C- C± C+ B- B± B+ A- A± A+ S±
---------------
Mod Edit: Read OP. Don't post pictures of new Pokemon.
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I believe naganadel will be able to run a specs set as well as a life orb 4 attacks or 3 attacks + u-turn as well. I think u-turn works well as it baits in very specific pokemon that wall it, potentially providing a lot of momentum for the team. I believe the np dragonium set to be the best which is why u-turn is a very strong option.
IMO I think Zeraora will function really well as a cleaner as well. It already will force out the likes of CeleFerroPex and will easily be able to get off a Work Up and clean from their. I think people are underselling it because yes while its offensive stats aren't world beating it has a decent enough mixed move pool to be able to pull off enough. I'm not saying it's a world beater or anything but I feel like it might be one of those mons that seems average on paper, but exceeds in practice. Who knows?
Dont think the defog users will have a huge impact. Hazard game will still be strong and stuff like Gliscor is only worth using as a Defogger in the long run to me after all the hype wears down and people stop testing out dogshit like Defog Thundurus on hyper offense when it wants to do other stuff. Torn-T might be okay as well due to Regenerator but Torn-T is pretty team specific already. If anything a lot of these new additions deter to the use of Defog users more.
Zeraora is going to be top tier with an all out attacker set, usually with Life Orb. Base 112 and 102 look mediocre on paper until you account for Life Orb and Z-move output. HP Ice will be mandatory though, for Lando-T and Gliscor ofc. Koko + Zera will be an interesting combo. Annoying against Offense, and will be good for it. This prediction is a reach though since this mon alone might force the landscape to cater to it in a way where it loses viability in like two months or so.
The clown mon is just hype. It's going to have the same issues Chandy has being rock and pursuit weak but an okay SubCM user for Stall. People tend to forget that they're basing this things effectiveness on current trends and not future trends these mons will play a part in creating.
Rock mon will be pure ass. That's my professional take on that one.
Not sure how the Poison/Dragon one will fair honestly. Might increase the usage of Scarf Lando-T if anything but otherwise seems a bit tough to gauge if it'll be truly effective in the long run. Cool ass typing though no doubt but I'm not getting my hopes up.
I don't think these changes will be very exciting, at least for me they're not. The generation as a whole is overall just trash, not just OU all tiers included, where there's just so much shit being thrown out there and no real structure at all. This first half of the gen never really settled right and now we're getting some whack nonsense like Defog Lando-T (like what?).
Zeraora is going to be top tier with an all out attacker set, usually with Life Orb. Base 112 and 102 look mediocre on paper until you account for Life Orb and Z-move output. HP Ice will be mandatory though, for Lando-T and Gliscor ofc. Koko + Zera will be an interesting combo. Annoying against Offense, and will be good for it. This prediction is a reach though since this mon alone might force the landscape to cater to it in a way where it loses viability in like two months or so.
The clown mon is just hype. It's going to have the same issues Chandy has being rock and pursuit weak but an okay SubCM user for Stall. People tend to forget that they're basing this things effectiveness on current trends and not future trends these mons will play a part in creating.
Rock mon will be pure ass. That's my professional take on that one.
Not sure how the Poison/Dragon one will fair honestly. Might increase the usage of Scarf Lando-T if anything but otherwise seems a bit tough to gauge if it'll be truly effective in the long run. Cool ass typing though no doubt but I'm not getting my hopes up.
I don't think these changes will be very exciting, at least for me they're not. The generation as a whole is overall just trash, not just OU all tiers included, where there's just so much shit being thrown out there and no real structure at all. This first half of the gen never really settled right and now we're getting some whack nonsense like Defog Lando-T (like what?).
I found this post on gamefaqs on how Araquanid may come up to possibly OU?
"With Defog being more prominent Stealth Rocks wont be as big of a threat, so I think Araquanid can climb the tiers. It also learns Iron defence, Trick, Laser Focus and Bug Bite which are useful especially Iron defence as it addresses its low defence.
Here are two move sets I have in mind first
Liquidation-Rest-Iron Defence-Toxic and the other is
Liquidation-Sticky Web-Leech life-Laser Focus"
by garchomp 700
I would maybe replace Leech life with bug bite but do you guys think Araquanid may be coming to OU? I think it will reside between OU and UU.
CelticEdit: removed bit about the type chart change, unproven so far
"With Defog being more prominent Stealth Rocks wont be as big of a threat, so I think Araquanid can climb the tiers. It also learns Iron defence, Trick, Laser Focus and Bug Bite which are useful especially Iron defence as it addresses its low defence.
Here are two move sets I have in mind first
Liquidation-Rest-Iron Defence-Toxic and the other is
Liquidation-Sticky Web-Leech life-Laser Focus"
by garchomp 700
I would maybe replace Leech life with bug bite but do you guys think Araquanid may be coming to OU? I think it will reside between OU and UU.
CelticEdit: removed bit about the type chart change, unproven so far
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Since I already covered my thoughts on some of the changes to older Pokemon, I'm gonna cover the new Ultra Beasts because I believe a couple of these have legitimate potential in OU.
Potential Sets
Viability Prediction: C-
I think that Stakataka is gonna be really bad just because of the culmination of its bad traits. Obviously this thing has an absurd defense stat and a sky high attack stat, but its typing is fucking awful defensively and leaves it way too liable to being shit on by some of the most common types in the game. Gyro Ball might be cool to spam in Trick Room on OTR sets or CB with Trick Room support, but this thing seems like it's going to be really bad overall. It's basically a slightly better Aggron in terms of stat distribution with an average ability considering its stat spread. This thing is gonna be a fun gimmick to use on Trick Room teams and such, but it's not going to see any serious use in OU.
Potential Sets
Viability Prediction: B+
I think that Blacephalon is gonna be a really neat offensive Pokemon in this metagame with the ability to run a Choice Scarf set to clean through teams late game with STAB moves that are super hard to switch into combined with its insane Special Attack stat and supporting Beast Boost that can let it snowball out of control vs weakened teams. Obviously this thing is complete Tyranitar bait, but it can still put in work in other matchups regardless and can potentially run Wisp to cripple it upon switch in regardless. If this thing got access to Hidden Power Fighting without reducing its stats to complete poop, I would totally run a Choice Specs set, but I'm not a fan of balance breakers that lose to Tyranitar. On the other hand, I think that this thing could run an interesting offensive nuke set with Z Mind Blown to completely bust past its normal checks with Calm Mind, which could certainly be an intriguing balance breaker. I'm really interested to see how this mon does in thie metagame and the metagame following its addition.
f
Potential Sets
Viability Prediction: A+
I think that Nagandel is gonna be a huge threat in this metagame. Obviously the increase in Defoggers in this metagame make absorbing Toxic Spikes not as valuable as it once was, but it's still nice to have regardless. Additionally, Nasty Plot is going to be super threatening for Balanced teams because it can do an insane amount of damage with +2 STAB moves and has Fire-type coverage to take apart Steel-types; however, this set's frailty will prevent it from being very effective vs more offensive teams without prediction. Heatran would normally wall it, but +2 Z Draco Meteor does an insane amount and doesn't require much chip damage to knock out. Choice Specs sets will be more annoying vs offensive teams, with Naganadel's high speed stat in conjunction with its high powered STAB moves and respectable Special Attack. Overall, I think that this thing is going to be a very solid Pokemon in the meta that will be an important threat to consider when teambuilding.
Potential Sets
Stakataka @ Mental Herb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
- Trick Room
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Stone Edge
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
- Trick Room
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Stone Edge
Stakataka @ Choice Band
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
- Gyro Ball
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Superpower / Rock Slide
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
- Gyro Ball
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Superpower / Rock Slide
I think that Stakataka is gonna be really bad just because of the culmination of its bad traits. Obviously this thing has an absurd defense stat and a sky high attack stat, but its typing is fucking awful defensively and leaves it way too liable to being shit on by some of the most common types in the game. Gyro Ball might be cool to spam in Trick Room on OTR sets or CB with Trick Room support, but this thing seems like it's going to be really bad overall. It's basically a slightly better Aggron in terms of stat distribution with an average ability considering its stat spread. This thing is gonna be a fun gimmick to use on Trick Room teams and such, but it's not going to see any serious use in OU.
Potential Sets
Blacephalon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Overheat
- Flamethrower
- Trick / Will-O-Wisp
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Overheat
- Flamethrower
- Trick / Will-O-Wisp
Blacephalon @ Firium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Mind Blown
- Fire Blast
- Calm Mind
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Mind Blown
- Fire Blast
- Calm Mind
I think that Blacephalon is gonna be a really neat offensive Pokemon in this metagame with the ability to run a Choice Scarf set to clean through teams late game with STAB moves that are super hard to switch into combined with its insane Special Attack stat and supporting Beast Boost that can let it snowball out of control vs weakened teams. Obviously this thing is complete Tyranitar bait, but it can still put in work in other matchups regardless and can potentially run Wisp to cripple it upon switch in regardless. If this thing got access to Hidden Power Fighting without reducing its stats to complete poop, I would totally run a Choice Specs set, but I'm not a fan of balance breakers that lose to Tyranitar. On the other hand, I think that this thing could run an interesting offensive nuke set with Z Mind Blown to completely bust past its normal checks with Calm Mind, which could certainly be an intriguing balance breaker. I'm really interested to see how this mon does in thie metagame and the metagame following its addition.
Potential Sets
Naganadel @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Bomb
- Flamethrower/Fire Blast
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Bomb
- Flamethrower/Fire Blast
Naganadel @ Choice Specs
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Bomb
- Fire Blast
- U-turn
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Bomb
- Fire Blast
- U-turn
I think that Nagandel is gonna be a huge threat in this metagame. Obviously the increase in Defoggers in this metagame make absorbing Toxic Spikes not as valuable as it once was, but it's still nice to have regardless. Additionally, Nasty Plot is going to be super threatening for Balanced teams because it can do an insane amount of damage with +2 STAB moves and has Fire-type coverage to take apart Steel-types; however, this set's frailty will prevent it from being very effective vs more offensive teams without prediction. Heatran would normally wall it, but +2 Z Draco Meteor does an insane amount and doesn't require much chip damage to knock out. Choice Specs sets will be more annoying vs offensive teams, with Naganadel's high speed stat in conjunction with its high powered STAB moves and respectable Special Attack. Overall, I think that this thing is going to be a very solid Pokemon in the meta that will be an important threat to consider when teambuilding.
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Bandtar is everywhere, Greninja is everywhere, Tspikes are everywhere; I think it is at least suspect worthy. Necrozma was bad in OU not because of lack of Ghost stab but because it has no good way to deal with dark types and is extremely hazard weak.
Mod edit: Don't discuss Necrozma
Mod edit: Don't discuss Necrozma
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It's kinda funny and sad about how buffed Kommo-o got, and yet it's still an irrelevant meme Pokemon in OU. The Poison/Dragon one will probably be high A+ and possibly suspect tested but may have AV Ttar as a check and it seems frail. With all these defoggers around, Volcarona is going to turn into possibly a worst sweeper than Magearna and it's only counters now are Chansey, Mantine and AV TTar. The more busted Chandelure seems kinda cool to use for Choice Specs, as it can 2HKO Toxapex, it's Mind Blown will hit like a truck on anything that doesn't resist it and Shadow Ball is a good alternate STAB but it doesn't get Energy Ball like Chandelure does, and it's speed stat is kinda weird. Also Defog Gliscor could be fun.
Not so sure on the new Mythical. It seems kinda meh, at least compared to the last two Mythicals and I only see two niches of using it over Koko which is it's signature move and it's speed beating Ash-Greninja. Gunk Shot was cool for Protean but Ash-Greninja doesn't get Liquidation, so you can't even run a Banded set so it's not all that good or effective as it could be.
I do hear that Bulu will get Synthesis and Focus Punch (Unsure on this one) so a slightly more powerful All Out Pummeling could be cool at +2 but I don't think it OHKOs Skarmory or Mega Scizor. Plus it won't be as reliable afterwards anyway.
Not so sure on the new Mythical. It seems kinda meh, at least compared to the last two Mythicals and I only see two niches of using it over Koko which is it's signature move and it's speed beating Ash-Greninja. Gunk Shot was cool for Protean but Ash-Greninja doesn't get Liquidation, so you can't even run a Banded set so it's not all that good or effective as it could be.
I do hear that Bulu will get Synthesis and Focus Punch (Unsure on this one) so a slightly more powerful All Out Pummeling could be cool at +2 but I don't think it OHKOs Skarmory or Mega Scizor. Plus it won't be as reliable afterwards anyway.
Actually Necrozma gets Signal Beam now. It's something, I guess. (I wasn't expecting Bug Buzz but Signal Beam is pretty mediocre damage output)
Also Gary said they'll be quick-banned still as they're title legendaries. Dawn Wings could get re-suspect tested but I'll hold my breath when that happens.
The highest that Kommo-o could go with the Z-Move is probably BL because OU is so full of Fairy-types that it can be easily predictable to where the opponent will just switch in a Fairy-type and the Z-Move will fail. And I don't get why Gary said that Kommo-o has weak STABs. It gets Close Combat and Superpower now which are its strongest physical Fighting STAB moves. If UU doesn't ban Kommo-o/Kommonium Z it'll be one of the best in that tier.
Blacephalon looks like a pretty cool Pokémon that has a very good mixed offensive stats. A mixed set could be cool on this. The main issue is that it doesn't get the coverage that Chandelure does, mainly Energy Ball and Focus Blast, so Water-types and Dark-types give it a bad day. It's Move Tutor list is pretty small too but it'll probably have a decent niche in OU.
Stakataka isn't staying in OU sadly due to the speedy oriented tier it is now and Fighting- and Ground-types are common in OU. It does look cool on Trick Room teams, it also has the strongest Gyro Ball in the game (it should've gotten Heavy Slam as well cause in Trick Room, Gyro Ball becomes weak, correct me on this). It's probably an RU Pokémon.
Naganadel is hype because it can reliably beat a lot of the Pokémon in the tier and it can weaken Heatran with a boosted Z-Move. I thought it'd at least be faster than Tapu Koko with maybe 131 Speed but Tapu Koko wouldn't want to switch in to this. Definitely the best out of the bunch.
Zeraora is the second fastest Electric-type in the game LOL only behind Electrode. It has a cool movepool (why no Ice Punch), it reminds me of Electivire too just because of what it can learn. It has Fighting coverage, Fire coverage and it has Knock Off among other things. It can also reliably switch in to Tapu Koko's Electric-type moves due to it having Volt Absorb. This is in no way like Marshadow so this isn't getting quickbanned from OU at all LOL due to lack of Technician and priority
Blacephalon looks like a pretty cool Pokémon that has a very good mixed offensive stats. A mixed set could be cool on this. The main issue is that it doesn't get the coverage that Chandelure does, mainly Energy Ball and Focus Blast, so Water-types and Dark-types give it a bad day. It's Move Tutor list is pretty small too but it'll probably have a decent niche in OU.
Stakataka isn't staying in OU sadly due to the speedy oriented tier it is now and Fighting- and Ground-types are common in OU. It does look cool on Trick Room teams, it also has the strongest Gyro Ball in the game (it should've gotten Heavy Slam as well cause in Trick Room, Gyro Ball becomes weak, correct me on this). It's probably an RU Pokémon.
Naganadel is hype because it can reliably beat a lot of the Pokémon in the tier and it can weaken Heatran with a boosted Z-Move. I thought it'd at least be faster than Tapu Koko with maybe 131 Speed but Tapu Koko wouldn't want to switch in to this. Definitely the best out of the bunch.
Zeraora is the second fastest Electric-type in the game LOL only behind Electrode. It has a cool movepool (why no Ice Punch), it reminds me of Electivire too just because of what it can learn. It has Fighting coverage, Fire coverage and it has Knock Off among other things. It can also reliably switch in to Tapu Koko's Electric-type moves due to it having Volt Absorb. This is in no way like Marshadow so this isn't getting quickbanned from OU at all LOL due to lack of Technician and priority
I feel like people are underestimating Dusk Lycanroc a bit. Like, it's not gonna be that great, but it did receive what the past Lycanrocs have been wanting ever since they released: a strong Ground type attack. This time, Dusk Lycanroc gets Tough Claws-boosted Drill Run, which makes it slightly stronger than Earthquake. This, when coupled with Swords Dance, helps its matchup vs Magearna, Heatran (doesn't need an SD to OHKO, or waste its signature Z move), SpDef Toxapex, and Tyranitar (fuck Brick Break lol). It also gets access to Fire Fang to hit Ferrothorn and non-Scarf Kartana.
This thing's exclusive Z move is also really strong when boosted. At +1, it's able to OHKO defensive Lando after rocks (factoring Intimidate post SD) as well as obliterating Relaxed Celesteela and even Bold Toxapex.
There's a bunch of calcs that I'm gonna copy from the Dusk Lycanroc thread in Orange Islands:
+1 252 Atk Lycanroc Splintered Stormshards (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Landorus-Therian: 343-405 (89.7 - 106%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Lycanroc Splintered Stormshards (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Celesteela: 450-529 (113 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Lycanroc Splintered Stormshards (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 319-376 (104.9 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Lycanroc Splintered Stormshards (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 327-385 (98.1 - 115.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Lycanroc Splintered Stormshards vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur-Mega: 358-423 (98.6 - 116.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Lycanroc Drill Run vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 374-440 (102.7 - 120.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Lycanroc Drill Run vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 388-458 (113.7 - 134.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Lycanroc Drill Run vs. 252 HP / 84 Def Toxapex: 276-326 (90.7 - 107.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Lycanroc Stone Edge vs. 212 HP / 44 Def Heatran: 277-327 (73.6 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Lycanroc Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 265-313 (67.2 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Lycanroc Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 247-292 (77.4 - 91.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Lycanroc Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 464-548 (131.8 - 155.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Lycanroc Fire Fang vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kartana: 272-324 (105 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Lycanroc Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Celesteela: 270-318 (67.8 - 79.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Lycanroc Accelerock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 181-214 (64.4 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Lycanroc Accelerock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 190-225 (63.1 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Lycanroc Accelerock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 220-259 (77.1 - 90.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Lycanroc Accelerock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kingdra: 165-195 (56.5 - 66.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Lycanroc Splintered Stormshards (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Celesteela: 450-529 (113 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Lycanroc Splintered Stormshards (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 319-376 (104.9 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Lycanroc Splintered Stormshards (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 327-385 (98.1 - 115.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Lycanroc Splintered Stormshards vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur-Mega: 358-423 (98.6 - 116.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Lycanroc Drill Run vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 374-440 (102.7 - 120.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Lycanroc Drill Run vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 388-458 (113.7 - 134.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Lycanroc Drill Run vs. 252 HP / 84 Def Toxapex: 276-326 (90.7 - 107.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Lycanroc Stone Edge vs. 212 HP / 44 Def Heatran: 277-327 (73.6 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Lycanroc Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 265-313 (67.2 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Lycanroc Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 247-292 (77.4 - 91.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Lycanroc Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 464-548 (131.8 - 155.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Lycanroc Fire Fang vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kartana: 272-324 (105 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Lycanroc Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Celesteela: 270-318 (67.8 - 79.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Lycanroc Accelerock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 181-214 (64.4 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Lycanroc Accelerock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 190-225 (63.1 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Lycanroc Accelerock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 220-259 (77.1 - 90.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Lycanroc Accelerock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kingdra: 165-195 (56.5 - 66.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The big issue, however, is how is this thing gonna set up safely with its terrible bulk? I can see players trying to set up in front of Volcarona, Zard X, Zapdos, Blacephalon, Heatran, or other mons that are vulnerable to it in an attempt to force them out, but a lot of mons in the tier are gonna be able to revenge it easily regardless. It's also sitting in a really crowded base 110 speed tier, which it's sharing with the (Mega) Latios, Mega Diancie, and Gengar.
That being said, I see this thing being a menace in the lower tiers given its unexpected strength. Hopefully it sees some OU play, even if it's most likely gonna be a niche threat at best.
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Then there's Zeraora. It was a mon that I also underestimated. In actuality, it seems to have a lot of useful tools. While its offensive stats aren't that high, they're decent enough to be pretty good against other fast, offensive mons, and still has a high enough special attack to 2HKO defensive Landorus-T with HP Ice even when uninvested. Volt Absorb makes it look like a pretty decent Koko + T-bolt Magearna check, and also has the speed to outrun Ash-Greninja and Mega Lopunny (something Koko can't do).
I'm prognosticating two sets that I think would be pretty cool on this mon:
Zeraora @ Assault Vest
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 244 Atk / 72 SpD / 192 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Close Combat
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Volt Switch
- Plasma Fists
This won wielding an Assault Vest may very well end up playing quite similarly to AV Raikou from ORAS, only it'll be much better in nearly every way possible. Zeraora even has Raikou's old hidden ability that never released back in 6th gen, which would have helped it a ton in the Thundurus / Mega Manectric meta. 72 SpDef ensures that Specs Koko's Dazzling Gleam doesn't 2HKO after rocks, 192 speed outpaces Lopunny, and the rest goes to Attack to strengthen its Plasma Fists and Close Combat attacks. Having an AV will also be nice in helping it fight off offensive Magearna sets, as well as taking only 46% maximum from Ash-Gren's Water Shuriken.
Zeraora also gets access to Bounce and both Work Up and Bulk Up, which will help the following set:
Zeraora @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 64 SpA / 192 Spe or 252 Atk / 64 Def / 192 Spe
Hasty / Jolly Nature
- Work Up / Bulk Up
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Close Combat
- Bounce
- Plasma Fists
Flyinium Z sounds like an awesome set to try on this thing, which allows it to blow away many of its grass type would-be checks such as Mega Venusaur, AV Tangrowth, Amoonguss, and Tapu Bulu. Whether or not you want to go mixed with Work Up + Hidden Power Ice or pure physical with Bulk Up + Close Combat is all up to you. HP Ice helps its Lando, Zygarde, and Gliscor matchup while CC helps its Ferrothorn and T-Tar matchup.
Mod Edit: Don't use photos of new mons
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Something came up about a type chart change and afaik no such change has occurred. Carry on but I removed that because it could really derail the discussion here.
Blacephalon: Mind Blown has more utility than one might think. It can be used to activate berries, can be used to regain momentum (like explosion), and it has such high base power that it even dents offensive TTar. It's perfectly accurate too, and that alone can give you a reason to run it alongside fire blast.
Also, trick is a must-have on choice sets. It's a sin to not run trick on this mon.
Also, trick is a must-have on choice sets. It's a sin to not run trick on this mon.
Im pretty sure Tr doesnt actuall affect gyro balls power, so under Tr it has a base 150 Steel move to anything that is above 162 speed or base 63 neutral and at level 100.
Even some of the slower mons such as Chansey are still being hit by a high base damage move.
252+ Atk Life Orb Probopass Gyro Ball (125 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 390-460 (55.4 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Might be important to reduce Speed to a minimum on certain walls and bulky pokemon, like reducing Attack to as little as possible to weaken Foul Play damage in the future.
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For people saying Nagandel isn't broken because it has counters,its counters are terrible sets for otherwise good mons.I mean AV Ttar really?It has no recovery whatsoever,is weak to hazards and can't even use rocks.Same with spD heatran,speedy set is way better.If a mon that has a few obscure counters and still does very well against offense and can still be versatile(specs,scarf,Z) is not broken then I don't know what is.
To point out the obvious, it's ridiculous to call Nagandel broken before it's even released. We only speak of it as versatile now as we haven't actually seen which sets work and which don't yet.
+2 Fire Blast OHKOs I think so Celesteela shouldn't be an issue. It can't set up in front of it, but it's not walled by any means.
Personally I think Normal/Ghost would have been a fire typing (well...) for it, and its design screams it too imo. Wouldn't have done much to improve its match up against TTar, but it's just a typing I really want to see in general. Plus it walls Marshadow's STABs kek
Work Up is looking kinda cool as a late game cleaner at the least, and with some investment it should be able to take care of Lando/Chomp/Zyg with HP Ice.
Shame it doesn't get Ice Punch/Beam though.
https://orig00.deviantart.net/8030/f/2015/165/0/f/ren_thank_you_by_flyinglion76-d8txo4f.jpg
Normal/Ghost Burst and Steel/Ghost Assembly would have been so cash
Any Dark or Normal type with a secondary typing of Water/Fire/Rock/Dragon. Which to be fair is like 21 mons, 4 of which are viable in OU.
Nah Fini should've left the tier a long time ago, there's nothing depressing about that.
Hopefully. It'd be a pretty cool mon to use in UU. It had a good run.
And Specs Koko still 2HKOs after rocks so it's not possible increased Koko usage is a reason for it to stay.
Fuck Fini tbh. It still gets way too much usage on ladder so it unfortunately may still stay in OU, but it shouldn't. Such a useless mon.
Anyway just some thoughts even though I've already given them on OI and most of them have been said:
- Naganadel is an awesome mon and I hope it doesn't get banned.
- Blacephalon not even getting HP Fighting is beyond hilarious, but y'all still underestimating how good of an offensive typing Fire/Ghost is. TTar sucks but like... it's not on every team and can be lured/taken out for this mon to sweep or clean or w/e.
- Stakataka is kinda ok for TR but like it has no boosting move? 131 Attack is nice and all until Lando comes in.
- Zoraora is kinda cool, even though "[Fast] Pure Electric-type mon with one of Volt Absorb/Motor Drive/Lightning Rod" has been done like 10 times now. Work up like I said above could be pretty nice though, and CC is a sick coverage move to have for it.
- A lot of this is hard to say until the meta develops. Over and under hyping mons is inevitable and we'll just have to see.
- GodTar
- Nihilego? What's that?
- Pls don't ban my baby Naganadel
- Status