Resource SS Doubles OU Viability Rankings (updated 7/27 on post #105)

talkingtree

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Doubles Captain

Temporary art by AmirAlexander, with edits by talkingtree and Level 51
Welcome to the Doubles OU Viability Ranking project, where we rank the viability of Pokemon in DOU. The floor will always be open to discussion, and after a period of time (roughly every month), the viability rankings council will vote on any of the Pokemon being discussed and post the results and reasoning here. A Pokemon moving from UR to Ranked must receive both a majority and at least 3 votes of "yes" in order to be Ranked. The rankings and tier descriptions have been assigned to describe each Pokemon's state within the metagame, and the Pokemon in each tier are listed in alphabetical order.

When making a nomination for a shift in the VR, many things can improve the quality of your post and thus the likelihood of it convincing the VR council. Calcs, reasons why the current metagame is different for the Pokemon, replays, and discussion on how the Pokemon interacts with other relevant Pokemon are all potentially solid inclusions. Additionally, you may want to discuss usage stats as part of your argument, but don't base your entire argument on the usage of a Pokemon - usage and viability are not the same thing. For examples of solid nominations from the last generation, check out this post (and the one two below it) and this post.

>>VR Council<<
These users have the ultimate say on shifts in Viability Rankings tiers. The council consists of experienced players who have different styles and perspectives to offer to the table when deciding the strength of any individual Pokemon.
Ezrael
MajorBowman
Paraplegic
qsns
SMB
talkingtree

>>Tier 1<<
Pokemon that dominate a large portion of the metagame. They are either quite powerful or offer great team support, and can fit on almost any team. You can't really go wrong by using these Pokemon.
Blastoise
Rillaboom
Urshifu-S
Volcarona

>>Tier 2<<
Pokemon that are generally strong and can easily be placed on a variety of teams, but don't have the same level of prowess as the threats in Tier 1.
Amoonguss
Gothitelle
Necrozma
Sylveon
Togekiss
Venusaur
Weezing-G
Zeraora

>>Tier 3<<
Pokemon that are generally strong, but less powerful than those in Tier 2 or Pokemon that require a decent amount of support or a specific team style to function well, but are defining pieces to said archetypes.
Chansey
Charizard
Dragapult
Excadrill
Incineroar
Indeedee-F
Kommo-o
Mew
Ninetales
Tsareena
Whimsicott

>>Tier 4<<
This tier contains either Pokemon that have broad applications on a variety of teams, but are simply less effective than those in higher tiers, or are only particularly useful for certain team styles.
Aegislash
Alakazam
Corviknight
Dracovish
Indeedee
Kingdra
Kyurem
Pelipper
Scizor
Talonflame
Terrakion
Urshifu-R

>>Tier 5<<
Pokemon that, while they have a niche in the metagame, often struggle to find situations where they thrive, either because of the support required or their poor matchups.
Gastrodon
Gigalith
Hatterene
Ludicolo
Milotic
Politoed
Porygon2
Rhyperior
Rotom-W
Torkoal
Tyranitar
 
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talkingtree

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Doubles Captain
In addition to the different rankings, there are a few changes between this thread and the corresponding thread in SM Doubles. The primary change is the removal of 4' and 5'. This is not necessarily a permanent change, but giving the meta a chance to settle will make it easier to figure out how to best organize the viable Pokemon in SS DOU. As a result, some of the tier descriptions have been updated slightly; these are only first drafts, so if you have alternate suggestions then feel free to leave them here.
 

Mizuhime

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I'd say Brav was tier 1 for about the first week of SwSh's existence and has since dropped of tremendously as players grew to recognize what it could do and started accounting for it, dropping it to tier 2 seems like a better option.

Lapras should move up to at least tier 3 or 4. Though it's a slow Pokemon it's extremely bulky and with the ability to check all water types while setting up aveil for your team it's not a pick that should be overlooked.

I would argue for Rotom-mow moving up to tier 2 alongside Rotom-w. Mow form can do a lot of the same things Wash can, and even some better. It's an extremely hard Pokemon to deal with and is very splashable for teams looking for some w-o-w support.

Jellicent needs to be tiered, in at least 3-4. Great trick room setter, great support mon and another super annoying Pokemon as it spreads burns around and controls the tempo of the game.

Finally, I would argue for pushing Rhyperior up to tier 2, the addition of dynamaxing means it doesn't have to just be used in Trick Room. The additional HP makes it one bulky ass Pokemon that's also incredibly strong.
 

n1n1

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is a Tiering Contributor
2 very important Birds are missing

Sirfetch'd --> Tier 5
Hawlucha --> Tier 5


I think these two mons are great alternatives to Braviary. Like Braviary, they run Brave Bird, Close Combat, and have valuable abilities. The reason you'd run these 2 mons over Braviary is for access to a better 3rd attack that kill some mons who give Bravairy problems. Leaf Blade on Sirfetch'd allow its to KO water types, most notably Rotom-W. And Hawlucha has access to Thunder Punch so it can kill a lot of Flying types that CC and BB don't.

Sirfetch'd ability Scrappy is a great ability for a fighting type with 135 base attack. And it can use its strongest move against ghost types like Aegislash and Dragapult. Another advantage type it has is its typing, better match up versus Sand as it resist Rock moves.

Hawlucha has 2 useful abilities, Limber and Unburden. It has a very high base speed, so even at +0 it outruns many things that Braviary cannot.

Neither of these mons learn tailwind, but are fast enough to make use of Max-Flying. Hawlucha can run Unburden and not even need TW support. and Sirfetch'd can easily fit on a semi-room team.
 
Charizard: Tier 5 to tier 3 (at least)
This mon has been severely underrated on the VR. With sun set up, it can hit ridiculous levels of power with its STAB moves (one of which keeps the weather in a favourable condition and the other is the epic max airstream), while having really nice grass coverage from Solar Beam. The only support it really needs is Sunny Day support. However, given that Whimsicott is a tier 1 pokemon and so easily splashable on a lot of teams, this support isn't tough to find at all. Sableye is another cool option but Charizard + Whimsicott is such a powerful core. Typically Life Orb is its best item, giving Charizard the power boost even when dynamaxed. Its gigantamax form isn't even a bad pick either - G-max Wildfire deals 1/6th of each opposing pokemons health in damage each turn, which can really rack up over the 4 turns it is active. This can make Charizard a strong pick on rain teams too, since it serves as a Ferrothorn check with Hurricane making use of the rain and its Fire-type moves not clashing awkwardly with the rest of the team.

Indeedee-F: Tier 2 to tier 1
I've made my thoughts on Indeedee pretty clear recently but I think its easily a tier 1 pokemon. It is basically the gold standard when it comes to redirection: good typing with very few weaknesses (and a Ghost-type immunity to go with it); amazing support options in Heal Pulse, Helping Hand and Healing Wish to name a few; and it sets Psychic Terrain, which is incredible in a tier where the next best terrain setters are Pincurchin and Galarian Weezing. It is almost a necessity on TR teams, giving almost unparalleled support in getting the first set. However, it has such a wide range of teams it can function on, since almost all setup sweepers make great use out of Indeedee's support too. DD Dragapult is a prime example, but pokemon like Tyranitar, Snorlax and even Polteageist appreciate it.

Togekiss: Tier 3 to tier 2
While Indeedee is, in my opinion, the best redirector by far, Togekiss stands out because of its dangerous versatility. Its solid bulk and access to cool moves like Yawn and Helping Hand let it fill the role of a vanilla redirector solidly, it is very easy to get caught out by the Weakness Policy set. Should you get it wrong, the game could easily end on the spot since Togekiss also gets access to max airstream, which with +2 boosts to special attack can be devastating. This makes Togekiss + Dragapult one of the strongest duos in DOU, since there are so many different combinations of sets they could be. I think its really cool that a pokemon can flip from support to offense in an instant (and do both tremendously), and this is surely the sign of a super strong pokemon. You can sometimes end up being caught in a catch 22 situation when facing it, where Togekiss can redirect your attacks for ages because of the fear of hitting it with a super effective move and activating its Weakness Policy.
 

n10sit

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hi this will be short and hopefully adequately thought out bc i have a migraine atm but i wanted to post bc the thoughts are in my head

Butterfree isn't good, I wouldn't rank it at all but it should be 5 at the highest, there are so many more better options to max and Befuddle is unreliable/unpredictable. its stats are just abysmal i just dont think its a usable mon. Drednaw kinda fits this too, its so wholly outclassed by ludicolo and even barracuda scoota and checked by ludi as well like whatre u gonna do actually hit megahorn? lmao

lastly i'll just say that i am also in support of raising lapras and rotom in the cut, these mons are very good. i also agree that braviary is more than likely tier 2 but it might be the best mon in tier 2. if there was more intimidate in the format it'd be tier 1, but the best 2 users having better sets with other abilities (justified arc and moxie gyarados) hurts bravs viability
 
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I think Lapras should be promoted to tier 3 as its G-Max Resonance is incredibly effective. The aurora veil effect gives its team better opportunities to set up and makes Lapras a threatening tank. In addition to boosting its teams defenses, G-Max Lapras can be a threatening offensive weapon. I have even had a great amount of success with using decorate on lapras and letting it dish out damage using its diverse move pool.

Also in response n10sit's post, I have played roughly three-hundred games using SMB's butterfre troom team, and the team has achieved me 3rd on the dou ladder. Through my experience I have consistently found that scarf Butterfre is an incredibly useful pokemon that provides an alternative to Indeedee-F for help setting troom. Because of Dynamax fakeout no longer provides the valuable aid for setting troom that it did in gen7, and thus mons with redirection (or a scarf sleep powder) are necessary. Although Butterfre certainly isn't the best gmax/dyna form, I do believe it is a very valid mon to run in dou. G-Max Butterfre is an incredible counter to opposing troom as many troom teams open with ideedee or goth. Although the status side effect has risk involved, I still think its one of the best g-max effects in the game. Sleep is obviously fantastic and para is also very nice. Poison is more meh, but the odds are good that your opponent will be greatly hindered by befuddle.
 

Yuichi

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Aegislash 3 ->4/5

This mon is utterly terrible against every single team archetype atm (think: trick room/sand/beat up/rain/bo). Sure it still functions decently as a bulky Steel with great stabs and all but its viability has certainly dimimished throughout the gens. This mon is unable to reliably damage a huge portion of the metagame and its awkward speed tier only worsens this as its unable to function well against both Trick Room and Tailwind. Its dual stabs do not really hit much of the format super effectively thus it struggles to pick up OHKOs forcing it to resort to mixed/physical sets for coverage. Defensively its also mediocre at best since Steel/Ghost gets SE hit and doesn't provide much resistance against 90% of the threats in the current format (see Dragapult, Excadrill, Tyranitar Torkoal, Dracovish etc.) Not to mention Kings Shield only results in a -1 Attack drop and it being unable to change forms while Dynamaxed. I see no reason to use this mon over other fat steels/offensive ghosts (eg. Ferro/Corvi/Dragapult)


Duraludon 4 -> 2

This mon is amazing and u can basically slap it on any team and that team will have a decent trick room matchup no matter the teamcomp. Combination of Steel STAB + dragon tail basically lets it check any trick room setter in existence with Mimikyu being the only exception. It also has access to valuable fighting/electric coverage and utility options such as snarl/thunder wave that when combined with its solid defensive typing, allows it to check a huge portion of the T1/T2 mons both offensively and defensively. (eg. Dragapult/Corviknight/Goth/Sylveon/Indeedee/Tyranitar/Dracovish to a certain extent). Although its special bulk isnt spectacular this can be patched up with the use of Assault Vest allowing it to more reliably check things like Sylveon and Dragapult. Overall it performs its role as a tr check really consistently while still functioning well against a variety of teamcomps and is a really splashable mon that can easily be placed on a variety of teams in general, thus i feel that it checks all the boxes and deserves to be placed in tier 2(or maybe 3).
 

Lord Death Man

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Hawlucha --> Tier 5
I support this. Lucha is a little bad but it has one of the single best stab combos possible, and unburden is an excellent ability. Indeedee-F is an absolutely fantastic support mon and necessary to use with Lucha, and Lucha is able to carve a niche over Braviary by being absurdly fast, having stab on CC, and by having access to SD.

I haven't tried sets other than Psychic Seed so I can't speak to the merits of those, but I think Indeedee + Seed is a solid niche of it's own.
Jellicent needs to be tiered, in at least 3-4. Great trick room setter, great support mon and another super annoying Pokemon as it spreads burns around and controls the tempo of the game.
I also support this (at 4), strength sap / recover are way more reliable than Dusclops' pain split and being immune to band fishious rends is hugely useful to a playstyle that finds itself at the receiving end of them constantly.
 
Aegislash 3 ->4/5
Additionally, fire type coverage is everywhere on fairies and there are literally 0 poison types in the top 3 tiers. Aegislash just doesnt have the long list of threats that it can easily switch into and threaten that it did in past generations.

Grimmsnarl-Gmax (M) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Sucker Punch
- Play Rough
- Thunder Wave

I also feel like im seeing way too many screener sets on Grimmsnarl. Prankster t-wave is awesome, and with fake out support grimmsnarl is a really good supporting lead in a lot of matchups. With good bulk, attack, and the ability to be moving first on nearly every turn, I could see grimmsnarl moving up in the rankings.
 
Additionally, fire type coverage is everywhere on fairies and there are literally 0 poison types in the top 3 tiers. Aegislash just doesnt have the long list of threats that it can easily switch into and threaten that it did in past generations.

Grimmsnarl-Gmax (M) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Sucker Punch
- Play Rough
- Thunder Wave

I also feel like im seeing way too many screener sets on Grimmsnarl. Prankster t-wave is awesome, and with fake out support grimmsnarl is a really good supporting lead in a lot of matchups. With good bulk, attack, and the ability to be moving first on nearly every turn, I could see grimmsnarl moving up in the rankings.
why play rough over spirit break? Accuracy and guaranteed spa drop are way better then a little more power.
 
i think my boy wailord has a tiny niche in the meta game and is a usable addition to your rain team. with a move set something like this

Wailord @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Aqua Ring
- Protect
- Water Spout

also I do not get why pokemon like pelipper or ludicolo don't ever use weather ball instead of scald. because if you play your cards right you have these boys almost all of the time in rain, where weather ball does more damage as a trade off for the 30% chance on burn I think you should really consider this move.
 

talkingtree

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Doubles Captain
i think my boy wailord has a tiny niche in the meta game and is a usable addition to your rain team. with a move set something like this

Wailord @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Aqua Ring
- Protect
- Water Spout

also I do not get why pokemon like pelipper or ludicolo don't ever use weather ball instead of scald. because if you play your cards right you have these boys almost all of the time in rain, where weather ball does more damage as a trade off for the 30% chance on burn I think you should really consider this move.
Sadly, Wailord's low Speed tier means it'll often be chipped before it can set a Substitute or fire off an attack, and even at full power its Water Spout in rain doesn't do too much damage:
4 SpA Wailord Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Rain: 168-198 (41.5 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

At that point, stalling out the enemy through passive recovery and Pressure is really its only way of being useful, but using something with as low BP as Water Spout hurts its ability to do that effectively.

As for Weather Ball, Ludicolo should usually be using Muddy Water for spread damage or Hydro Pump for an espeially powerful attack, which is stronger than Weather Ball. Pelipper often sticks to Scald for that chance to burn you mentioned. In addition, you can't be sure to stay in Rain all the time with the popularity of Sand and Max moves' ability to set weather, and being stuck with a Rock move against Excadrill / Tyranitar is a big bummer.
 
I don’t know enough about the meta to judge mons accurately, but is Morpeko viable? Aura Wheel seems like a good move and avoiding getting OHKOed sets him up with a speed boost and band and a decent base attack can allow for a sweep, especially with a max knuckle to get some high attack. Once again, I’m fairly new to competitive and I’m just curious.
 
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I don’t know enough about the meta to judge mons accurately, but is Morpeko viable? Aura Wheel is easily one of the best moves, and avoiding getting OHKOed sets him up with a speed boost and band and a decent base attack can allow for a powerful sweep, especially with a max knuckle to get some unstoppable attack. Once again, I’m fairly new to competitive and I’m just curious.
Strong Electric coverage admittedly is coveted in a metagame where only a few viable Electric-type Pokemon exist. As a Dark-type attacker, Morpeko is utterly outclassed by sturdier and stronger alternatives like Tyranitar and Hydreigon.

There are two crippling downsides to Morpeko that make it unviable in competitive play, even as an Electric attacker. The first problem is Morpeko's signature move, Aura Wheel. While it is a strong attack, it alternates its typing each turn -- while this seems like a fun gimmick on the surface, it also means any Pokemon carrying Protect (spoiler: most of them) can simply stall out the turns where it would receive super effective damage from Aura Wheel. This makes Aura Wheel clunky to use, and predictable to dodge.

The second problem is that Morpeko has really terrible bulk (58 HP / 58 Def / 58 SpD). Its "powerful sweep" will usually be short-lived, as it can literally be one-shotted by a Whimsicott with no SpA investment, let alone literally any Pokemon actually designed to do damage.

It's technically possible to toss a Focus Sash onto Morpeko, put it in the 6th slot of an otherwise viable team, and win a game with it. But it's not advisable; there are better Electric-types and Dark-types on the VR that will almost always do a better job on your team.
 
Strong Electric coverage admittedly is coveted in a metagame where only a few viable Electric-type Pokemon exist. As a Dark-type attacker, Morpeko is utterly outclassed by sturdier and stronger alternatives like Tyranitar and Hydreigon.

There are two crippling downsides to Morpeko that make it unviable in competitive play, even as an Electric attacker. The first problem is Morpeko's signature move, Aura Wheel. While it is a strong attack, it alternates its typing each turn -- while this seems like a fun gimmick on the surface, it also means any Pokemon carrying Protect (spoiler: most of them) can simply stall out the turns where it would receive super effective damage from Aura Wheel. This makes Aura Wheel clunky to use, and predictable to dodge.

The second problem is that Morpeko has really terrible bulk (58 HP / 58 Def / 58 SpD). Its "powerful sweep" will usually be short-lived, as it can literally be one-shotted by a Whimsicott with no SpA investment, let alone literally any Pokemon actually designed to do damage.

It's technically possible to toss a Focus Sash onto Morpeko, put it in the 6th slot of an otherwise viable team, and win a game with it. But it's not advisable; there are better Electric-types and Dark-types on the VR that will almost always do a better job on your team.
Got it thanks
 
Dracozolt 4 -> 2/3

Dracozolt is an underrated threat right now. With Hustle it hits harder than Dracovish and is much less one dimensional. Aside from Bolt Beak Dracozolt has two good moves in Dragon Claw and High Horsepower that enable it to hit Electric resists hard. The attack boost from Hustle still applies when Dynamaxed and Dracozolt appreciates all of its Max Move effects, despite losing Bolt Beak's doubled power (Max Lightning in Electric Terrain has approximately the same power as a doubled Bolt Beak). Electric/Dragon is a useful defensive typing, being immune to paralysis and checking the abundance of flying types in the tier, especially Gyarados. Dracozolt also is a fantastic partner for flying types, benefiting from Max Airstream and Tailwind and while also covering each others weaknesses. Being forced to accept Hustle misses or use Volt Absorb hurt it but the extreme power is more than enough to justify its inclusion on many teams.

This replay shows just how dangerous Dracozolt can be.


Also going to echo Mizuhime's nomination of Rhyperior 3 -> 2

With the equal second highest attack stat in the tier and effectively unresisted STAB coverage (Flygon and Levitate Bronzong are the only legal resists) Rhyperior is a big threat even without a Weakness Policy boost. Being able to threaten the entire metagame with just two moves allows significant flexibility for its third move. The awkward speed tiers of SWSH heavily advantage Rhyperior. In addition to its Trick Room set Rhyperior can run 196 speed EVs with a neutral nature to outspeed base 100s in Tailwind, which is effectively the entire unboosted metagame outside Whimsicott and Dragapult. In addition to Weakness Policy Rhyperior can run other items, such as Lum Berry, to catch checks to the Weakness Policy set. I think that being able to be used outside of Trick Room and flexibility in its move and item slots gives Rhyperior enough versatility to be ranked in tier 2.
 

talkingtree

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Doubles Captain
Time for the first shift of this generation! We won't be doing any sort of low-tier sweeps for a while; this list isn't close to suffering from stagnation at this point, so it likely wouldn't help much. Thanks to everyone for posting detailed nominations and thoughts! However, in the future please be sure to include replays for any nominations from UR to Ranked; otherwise, the VR Council doesn't have much to go on and your nom can't be taken as seriously.

Braviary Tier 1 → Tier 2
SMB: yeah I think we all overhyped braviary a bit, tier 2 is fine

talkingtree: Agreed with SMB. It's still definitely good but not a tier 1 threat like it was in the first week or so.

Croven: Yes. we overhyped as hell

MajorBowman: Yes, definitely not as good as it originally looked on paper

Emforbes: Agreed with everyone, I honestly think it should drop further to 3.

Demantoid: 2. Its speed holds it back a lot
Lapras Tier 5 → Tier 4 → Tier 3
SMB: I’m not too sold on lapras being tier 3 tbh, definitely deserves more than 5 tho. It’s relatively easy to slap brick break on teams and sometimes it is too passive. Tier 4.

talkingtree: 4 for the same reasons SMB said

Croven: Tier 4. Not sold on 3, need more replays. But we can pretty easily say its above 5, so slap it in 4

MajorBowman: 4 for now, want to see it in action a bit more before bumping it as high as 3 but definitely better than 5

Emforbes: 4, I think this mon has so much potential but it’s too early for tier 3.

Demantoid: 4, Great bulk and support, but lacks offensive pressure
Rotom-M Tier 3 → Tier 2
SMB: tier 2, probably the best rotom form, really useful vs common stuff like sand, corvinight or gastrodon.

talkingtree: 3, I haven't been impressed with Mowtom personally so I just don't see it as 2. Maybe I'm just using it on the wrong teams or something.

Croven: Yes. pretty good against stuff like mold breaker exca and gastro, etc. Pretty solid

MajorBowman: I’m surprised someone other than me is making this nom, I agree for sure. I think viewing it as a grass type that beats fliers frames it in a better light than comparing it to the rest of the rotoms; Rotom-C is functionally a grass with the utility of an electric with wisp and I'm a big fan

Emforbes: 3, in my opinion all of the rotom forms are pretty lackluster, much better on paper than actual play. Depending on how high safeguard usage gets I think it could fall off very hard.

Demantoid: 2. Grass has been a much better defensive typing than previous gens so far
Jellicent UR → Tier 5 → Tier 4 → Tier 3
SMB: abstain, I haven’t seen any games featuring jellicent and no replays were submitted with this nom

talkingtree: 5, sits around and is basically Dusclops but exchanges being less bulky for hard countering Dracovish and having some slight offensive presence against Arcanine/Rhyperior etc. Also, as LDM said, Jellicent is much more reliable at staying healthy with Strength Sap/Recover in comparison to Pain Split.

Croven: abstain, i don't actually think i’ve seen this used lol

MajorBowman: Wouldn’t go higher than 5 for now but could see it going higher. I haven’t seen it used much either but I do think it has some pretty great potential

Emforbes: 3 is way too high, jelli is a great defensive mon and tr setter but It’s pretty specific to slower balance teams.

Demantoid: 5, decent typing and bulk; also has a few moves that set it apart
Rhyperior Tier 3 → Tier 2
SMB: great sand check and almost mandatory in tr builds but tier 3 seems fine to me, wow seems to be everywhere and has a hard time breaking through common stuff like corvinight, rotom mow or rotom wash.

talkingtree: 2, Rhyperior is seriously scary when it's in the right conditions and those conditions aren't especially difficult to meet. qsns also showed in SPL how SD sets can somewhat get around the ubiquity of wisp.

Croven: 2, heck yea man (what above 2 said tbh)

MajorBowman: definitely, super threatening mon in TR but can also function outside of it because it’s just so damn bulky and is a super great WP user

Emforbes: Agreed with everyone else, rhyp is broken af.

Demantoid: 2. Very bulky with good power. Typing isn’t as bad as previously
Sirfetch'd UR → Tier 5
talkingtree: no, I've never seen this used nor have I ever wanted to add it to a team.

Croven: no lol, never seen this used and don't rly want to

MajorBowman: no, same as talkingtree and Croven

Emforbes: no, leek is cool but it’s not good or proven.

SMB: why would you ever use this

Demantoid: ur. Doesn’t really have a unique niche
Hawlucha UR → Tier 5
talkingtree: abstain, I can see the appeal here but I just haven't been impressed or seen any serious levels of usage.

Croven: Yeah, I’m fine w/ this. I've seen it used a few times and it's been pretty threatening. 5 is fair

MajorBowman: abstain, agree with talkingtree

Emforbes: no chance, terrible cheese mon that’s almost always a complete waste of a slot.

SMB: huh I haven’t used this mon myself but I have seen it doing work sometimes and can be threatening, tier 5.

Demantoid: 5. High speed and amazing stab combination
Charizard Tier 5 → Tier 4 → Tier 3 → Tier 2
talkingtree: I'm torn between 3 and 4, probably going to say 4 for now. I disrespected zard at the beginning of the gen, but I don't want to overcompensate for that mistake and jump it way up. Zard basically needs Whimsicott or Dynamax to be useful at all, and the widespread use of sand can get really frustrating at times.

Croven: uhhhhh tier 3 probably. While it takes a lot of support and relying on whims isn't always that consistent, it's also really really good when it gets going. I’d say 3 is good for this

MajorBowman: 3 imo. Incredibly scary under the right circumstances but can’t really force those circumstances itself. Relies a lot on its teammates for support but once it gets rolling it’s insane

Emforbes: 4, zard is a threat but there a still a lot of options to deal with it (especially in 6v6), just another overrated hyper offense mon that’s peaking during the beginning of the gen.

SMB: tier 4, as it has been said before, requires dynamax or whimsicott to work, ttar being so common makes it easier to revenge kill.

Demantoid: 4. It’s strong, but fire doesn’t have the best coverage and requires support
Indeedee-F Tier 2 → Tier 1
talkingtree: I don't think this mon has the splashability to be Tier 1. It definitely has flexibility and very strong support, but low physical defense is a really rough trait to have as a redirector in this metagame. Keep in 2.

Croven: tier 2. Basically what tree said

MajorBowman: tree nailed it I think, stick to 2 for now

Emforbes: 2, not impressed with this mon at all even on tr. Honestly I think it should be dropping to 3 or 4.

SMB: tier 2, agree with everyone else

Demantoid: 2. It’s not bulky enough to provide support throughout a game
Togekiss Tier 3 → Tier 2
talkingtree: 3's still good for now, I think this belongs a tier below Indeedee and I said above why I believe Indeedee should still be 2.

Croven: Hm i think i’ll go with tier 2. Good support set, has an underrated wp set that i’ve seen in a couple games. Pretty solid lets move it up

MajorBowman: 2, I think Togekiss and Indeedee are comparable in strength and Togekiss has a decently wide range of moves and sets that it can run

Emforbes: 2, but imo it should rise to 1. Toge has so much versatility, a great move set, and fits sooo well on countless teams. Not to mention the super luck scope lens is really slept on.

SMB: tier 2 should be fine; good redirection mon, nice coverage with fire blast, more than a decent check for dragapult, flying type dynamax is broken and you have to be careful of hitting with super effective moves because wp is a fine set

Demantoid: 2. Trades Indeedee’s terrain control for better bulk and moves
Butterfree Tier 4 → Tier 5 → UR
talkingtree: Tier 5 might be a bit more apt for Butterfree; it's more *incredibly annoying* than it is good most of the time. Also we're feuding and I'm winning and will enjoy seeing it sad from being dropped on the VR.

Croven: as someone who was terrorized by this, tier 5. Agreed with tree in that its mostly just annoying rather than actually a good mon. dont think its useful or splashable enough for 4 rn.

MajorBowman: Agree with the two above that Butterfree isn’t much more than annoying, but I think 5 is fine. Redirection + sleep will always have utility even if the mon isn’t very good, so leaving it ranked seems appropriate

Emforbes: 5, it’s just annoying + a better indeedee on fullroom.

SMB: tier 5, it doesn’t fit in enough teams to be tier 4 imo.

Demantoid: 5. Not super reliable and extremely frail even with dynamax
Drednaw Tier 5 → UR
talkingtree: 5. Drednaw does some ridiculous amounts of damage (LO GMax Stonesurge OHKOes Mew in rain) so I think it still has a place on the VR. Also, its GMax move's secondary effect setting SR is huge in a meta with Arcanine, Togekiss, Gyarados, and Sash users like Whimsicott or Indeedee everywhere. I get that it's a bit one-dimensional and rain-dependent, but that's why it's Tier 5 and not any higher.

Croven: abstain. Haven’t seen this in a while

MajorBowman: UR, I legit haven’t seen this thing at all and though I’ve seen some wild calcs that isn’t fully convincing

Emforbes: UR, garbage mon that only gets anything out of a pretty lackluster archetype.

SMB: tier 5, this is the best physical attacker for rain and rock coverage is neat.

Demantoid: abstain
Aegislash Tier 3 → Tier 4 → Tier 5
talkingtree: Yeah, I overestimated this when I first gave my vote. Tier 4 seems better, it can do a fair amount in some matchups but it just isn't as effective as some of the mons higher up and too many of the threats it should be able to wall pack coverage that happens to hit it.

Croven: tier 4 is fine, we overestimated it but its still decent enough for 4.

MajorBowman: definitely similar to Braviary in that it was originally overrated, I’d say 4 for now but could see it jumping back up to 3 or down to 5 depending on how the meta treats it and how we find ways to use it

Emforbes: 5, aegi has been utterly useless in every game i’ve seen it in. It really does not have a good role in this meta at all.

SMB: tier 5 :put_litter_in_its_place:

Demantoid: 5. It’s too slow to reliably impact games right now
Duraludon Tier 4 → Tier 3 → Tier 2
talkingtree: 4. Maybe I just haven't been in the right games but I certainly haven't seen Duraludon do anything worthy of 2. Offering decent power and a great TR matchup is nice, but it's kind of stuck picking between being a supportive mon or a strong-ish attacker and doesn't do great at either.

Croven: yea keep this thing at 4. Don't really see this thing do that much in games when i do see it, not worth raising yet

MajorBowman: 4, I don’t think we’ve really seen Duraludon hit its stride in DOU yet but once it does I could easily see it jumping up to 3 or even 2. I know this isn’t a direct comparison but it’s a phenomenal mon in VGC right now and I think that could translate well to DOU

Emforbes: 3, but it has serious potential to go even higher. Dragon steel offensively is actually ridiculous, and It’s a top 5 dynamax mon imo.

SMB: tier 4, the only reason i see to use this is to check tr and it isn’t even really good at that

Demantoid: 4. It has really awkward stats that make it difficult to fill its roles
Dracozolt Tier 4 → Tier 3 → Tier 2
talkingtree: I think this deserves a rise to 3, YoBuddy put it well so read his nom for more thoughts.

Croven: tier 3, second tree

MajorBowman: abstain, another mon that I think could probably be alright but I’ve seen it in action very few times

Emforbes: Abstain, I’ve only seen it in vgc so I don’t feel qualified to vote.

SMB: I took the time to watch the whole set yobuddy attached his replay from; g1 shows why dracozolt shouldn’t be tier 4. Although, g2 and g3 show why it shouldn’t be tier 2 either. Strong mon but pretty unreliable, definitely seems better than all the stuff in tier 4 so I’m fine with a rise to tier 3.

Demantoid: 3. Hits super hard especially since there’s only a few ground types

Changes:
:braviary: Tier 1 → Tier 2
:lapras: Tier 5 → Tier 4
:rotom-mow: Tier 3 → Tier 2
:jellicent: UR → Tier 5
:rhyperior: Tier 3 → Tier 2
:hawlucha: UR → Tier 5
:charizard: Tier 5 → Tier 4
:togekiss: Tier 3 → Tier 2
:butterfree: Tier 4 → Tier 5
:aegislash: Tier 3 → Tier 4
:dracozolt: Tier 4 → Tier 3
 

Nails

Double Threat
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oh, no one nommed arcanine or kiss to 1

arcanine to 1. dog won 5 times in spl week 1, he's the best intimidate by 2 kilometers (approximately 1.2 miles, they can see him but he's off in the distance) which is of vital importance in a physical meta like sword and shield.

togekiss to 1. offers unparalleled control over the battlefield, it has a diverse selection of sets which can range from deceptively bulky support with acceptable damage output to offensive threat with strong supporting capabilities. it can fit status moves (yawn, twave) and other support options (helping hand, life dew, screens) comfortably alongside its stab move of choice (air slash or gleam are both very potent) without feeling pressured by 4mss because follow me is such a consistently powerful option. offensive sets capitalize on aggression aimed at the support sets by maxing, catching a weakness policy boost and taking off with boosted airstream before following up with +2 max flares or starfalls. if the board doesn't look great for maxed kiss it can still get solid value out of follow me and super luck gleam. as a last aside, scope lens kiss is a serious threat in vgc atm and i wouldn't be shocked to see it make waves in dou either. critting max moves is nutty, and doing it 50% of the time can consistently be game winning.
 
Duraludon -> t3
extremely good tool in the anti trick room game, and with trick room being as potent as it is the mon deserves better placement. completely invalidating redirection of all kinds (including ally switch once the mechanics are updated) max steelspike ohkoing non babiri hatterene(does upwards of 90% to babiri sets) and dragon tail to remove all non-fairy trick room setters 90% of the time. access to the incredible dragon steel typing makes it super defensive from the get-go. av sets have proven that it can be bulky even with base 50 spedef and its respectable base 85 speed means it moves before most bulky attackers with some investment. not to mention life orb sets with a deep special movepool shred through teams once excadrill is taken care of.

252 SpA Life Orb Duraludon Max Steelspike (130 BP) vs. -1 236 HP / 12 SpD Babiri Berry Togekiss: 343-406 (92.7 - 109.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
max darkness into an ally to soften means even babiri berry toge doesnt always survive this hit


252 SpA Life Orb Duraludon Max Wyrmwind (140 BP) vs. 156 HP / 0 SpD Dragapult: 712-842 (100 - 118.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Duraludon Max Steelspike (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 68 SpD Sylveon: 398-468 (101 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Duraludon Max Steelspike (130 BP) vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 351-413 (100 - 117.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Duraludon Max Steelspike (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 168+ SpD Tyranitar: 406-478 (100.4 - 118.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
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