Resource SS Doubles OU Viability Rankings v.2

Paraplegic · Nov 18, 2020

Temporary art by AmirAlexander, with edits by talkingtree, Level 51, and GenOne

Welcome to the Doubles OU Viability Ranking project, where we rank the viability of Pokemon in DOU. The floor will always be open to discussion, and after a period of time (roughly every month), the viability rankings council will vote on any of the Pokemon being discussed and post the results and reasoning here. A Pokemon moving from UR to Ranked must receive both a majority and at least 3 votes of "yes" in order to be Ranked. The rankings and tier descriptions have been assigned to describe each Pokemon's state within the metagame, and the Pokemon in each tier are listed in alphabetical order.

When making a nomination for a shift in the VR, many things can improve the quality of your post and thus the likelihood of it convincing the VR council. Calcs, reasons why the current metagame is different for the Pokemon, replays, and discussion on how the Pokemon interacts with other relevant Pokemon are all potentially solid inclusions. Additionally, you may want to discuss usage stats as part of your argument, but don't base your entire argument on the usage of a Pokemon - usage and viability are not the same thing. For examples of solid nominations from the last generation, check out this post (and the one two below it) and this post.

>>VR Council<<

These users have the ultimate say on shifts in Viability Rankings tiers. The council consists of experienced players who have different styles and perspectives to offer to the table when deciding the strength of any individual Pokemon.

Actuarily

Nido-Rus

Paraplegic
:sableye:

SMB

Yoda2798

>>Tier 1<<

Pokemon that dominate a large portion of the metagame. They are either quite powerful or offer great team support, and can fit on almost any team. You can't really go wrong by using these Pokemon.

Incineroar
:mew:

Mew

Rillaboom

>>Tier 2<<

Pokemon that are generally strong and can easily be placed on a variety of teams, but don't have the same level of prowess as the threats in Tier 1.

Diancie

Genesect

Landorus

Porygon2

Tapu Fini

Urshifu-R

Volcanion

Whimsicott
:zygarde:

Zygarde

>>Tier 3<<

Pokemon that are generally strong, but less powerful than those in Tier 2 or Pokemon that require a decent amount of support or a specific team style to function well, but are defining pieces to said archetypes.

Amoonguss

Celesteela
:Dracozolt:

Dracozolt

Dragapult

Ferrothorn
:heatran:

Heatran

Kyurem-B

Metagross

Naganadel

Necrozma

Pheromosa

Spectrier

Tapu Lele

Tyranitar

Zeraora

>>Tier 4<<

This tier contains either Pokemon that have broad applications on a variety of teams, but are simply less effective than those in higher tiers, or are only particularly useful for certain team styles.

Blastoise

Cresselia

Dracovish

Indeedee-F
:kingdra:

Kingdra

Nihilego

Pelipper

Politoed

Stakataka

Tornadus

Tsareena

Zapdos

>>Tier 5<<

Pokemon that, while they have a niche in the metagame, often struggle to find situations where they thrive, either because of the support required or their poor matchups.

Arctozolt

Chansey

Crobat

Excadrill

Landorus-T
:Lurantis:

Lurantis

Ninetales-A
:registeel:

Registeel

Scrafty

Terrakion

Torkoal

Volcarona

Venusaur

Zapdos-G

talkingtree · Nov 18, 2020

With the drastic shift from the release of Crown Tundra, the VR Council decided to entirely redo the VR. If you're interested in the list of changes, I've put them in a hide tag below. Since this is basically a preliminary list for a new meta, I'm expecting more nominations than usual to tweak this into something the community as a whole believes is more accurate. Thanks for your patience in waiting for this new list!

Drops
Rillaboom Tier 1 → Tier 2

Necrozma Tier 2 → Tier 3
Togekiss Tier 2 → Tier 3

Zeraora Tier 1 → Tier 4
Dragapult Tier 2 → Tier 4
Urshifu-R Tier 2 → Tier 4
Weezing-G Tier 2 → Tier 4
Blastoise Tier 3 → Tier 4
Tyranitar Tier 3 → Tier 4

Charizard Tier 3 → Tier 5
Ninetales Tier 3 → Tier 5
Venusaur Tier 3 → Tier 5
Hatterene Tier 4 → Tier 5
Indeedee-F Tier 4 → Tier 5
Pelipper Tier 4 → Tier 5
Sylveon Tier 4 → Tier 5
Terrakion Tier 4 → Tier 5
Torkoal Tier 4 → Tier 5
Whimsicott Tier 4 → Tier 5

Gothitelle Tier 1 → UR
Kommo-o Tier 2 → UR
Corviknight Tier 3 → UR
Scizor Tier 3 → UR
Dragalge Tier 4 → UR
Hawlucha Tier 4 → UR
Kyurem Tier 4 → UR
Talonflame Tier 4 → UR
Alakazam Tier 5 → UR
Indeedee Tier 5 → UR
Ludicolo Tier 5 → UR
Ninetales-A Tier 5 → UR
Primarina Tier 5 → UR
Rhyperior Tier 5 → UR
Rotom-W Tier 5 → UR
Toxtricity Tier 5 → UR

Rises
Mew Tier 2 → Tier 1

Politoed Tier 5 → Tier 4
Porygon2 Tier 5 → Tier 4

Chansey UR → Tier 5
Hippowdon UR → Tier 5
Scrafty UR → Tier 5

New Placements
Diancie → Tier 1
Kyurem-B → Tier 1
Tapu Fini → Tier 1

Celesteela → Tier 2
Genesect → Tier 2
Kartana → Tier 2
Landorus-T → Tier 2
Nihilego → Tier 2
Tapu Koko → Tier 2
Volcanion → Tier 2
Zapdos-G → Tier 2
Zygarde → Tier 2

Cresselia → Tier 3
Heatran → Tier 3
Tapu Lele → Tier 3
Zapdos → Tier 3

Glastrier → Tier 4
Landorus → Tier 4
Lurantis → Tier 4
Metagross → Tier 4
Moltres-G → Tier 4
Regieleki → Tier 4
Spectrier → Tier 4
Suicune → Tier 4
Volcarona → Tier 4

Naganadel → Tier 5
Stakataka → Tier 5
Tornadus → Tier 5

Platinum God n1n1 · Nov 18, 2020

UR mons

Entei --> Tier 3
This mon is even better than Heatran. Its a very bulky and strong attacker that cannot be flinched or intimated. It has one of the best fire moves -Sacred Fire and good coverage to hit other fires - Stomping Tantrum. It is also the fastest of the top tier fires, it can out run important stuff like Kyurem

:Salamence:

Salamence --> Tier 5
This is a solid Intimidate alternative you can use on the team to fill that role and as a TW setter in a single slot.

:Gastrodon:

Gastrodon-->Tier 5
As always Gastrodon can be a major problem for just about any team once their grass is gone. It is a bulky guy who can switch into top threats as needed and redirect water moves.

:Thundurus-Therian:

Thundurus-Therian --> Tier 3
One of the strongest SpA attacking guys in the game with great coverage options (Flash Cannon, Sludge Bomb, Focus Blast) while being immune to electric makes him very underrated and a premier electric type well suited to SS

emma · Nov 19, 2020

>>Tier 1<<

Pokemon that dominate a large portion of the metagame. They are either quite powerful or offer great team support, and can fit on almost any team. You can't really go wrong by using these Pokemon.

Diancie

Kyurem-B

>>Tier 2<<

Pokemon that are generally strong and can easily be placed on a variety of teams, but don't have the same level of prowess as the threats in Tier 1.

Amoonguss

Genesect

Incineroar

Landorus-T

Mew

Rillaboom

Tapu Fini

Volcanion

Zygarde

>>Tier 3<<

Pokemon that are generally strong, but less powerful than those in Tier 2 or Pokemon that require a decent amount of support or a specific team style to function well, but are defining pieces to said archetypes.

Celesteela

Cresselia

Kartana

Nihilego

Necrozma

Tsareena

Zapdos

1 --> 2
This isn't really a knock on either of them; it's more about how I think Diancie and Kyurem-Black deserve a tier all to themselves. Even with the mechanic nerf, it's not hard for Diancie to quickly raise its Defense through Diamond Storm spam and then start hitting things with boosted Body Press. One example of Diancie dominating and running away with a game is here. It enters the field Turn 2 and does not leave. Even though it gets Taunted, it still spams Diamond Storm and eventually sets Trick Room to secure the win. Kyurem-Black has seen success with Dragon Dance (substitute or 2 attacks), Mixed Life Orb, and Assault Vest. It excels as both an offensive and defensive threat, and can be customized to fit a plethora of roles when needed. Overall, I see these two as the best Pokemon in the game, and I think they deserve a tier to themselves. I would also consider Tapu Fini and Mew some of the best Tier 2 mons.

:celesteela:

2 --> 3
I personally like both these Pokemon, but I don't think they have the splashibility as the rest of Tier 2, and are more niche options. Celesteela drains all offensive momentum unless you wall a team on matchup. I find it similar to Cresselia, sometimes it can win on matchup alone, but it can also be completely useless in some cases. CM Fini is not only a better win condition, but also a better Pokemon in general. Kartana faces competition from three other common grasses, and struggles against top Pokemon such as Landorus-T, Incineroar, and Volcanion. However, it's also one of the fastest threats in the metagame and has a lot of great sets it can rub (White Herb, Max SpD, Tailwind, Substitute). Nihilego, while a great anti-meta pick against strong threats, it not splashable at all compared to the other Pokemon in tier 2. It's useless without offensive momentum and is extremely frail on the physical side. On the other hand, it outspeeds a lot of threats (beside namely Kartana off the top of my head) and can easily snowball kills with Meteor Beam. Kartana and Nihilego are the nominations I'm least confident in, but I think they deserve Tier 3.

:excadrill:

3 --> 4 or lower
I don't think theres anyway you can justify these Pokemon in Tier 3 currently. Excadrill suffers from the popularity of Landorus-T, Zygarde, Tapu Fini, and the grasses and really needs a sand setter to get going. I think Heatran faces its usual issues and is outclassed by Volcanion most of the time. Tapu Lele got hit hard my the terrain nerf and the fact that Rillaboom is on ~42% of teams currently. It lacks the damage output + speed tier for an offensive threat in the current metagame.

:tapu-koko:

2 --> 3 or lower
:togekiss:

3 --> 4 or lower
Trash.

sawamura · Nov 21, 2020

tier 5 ---> 4

Well, Dracovish is one of the mons that I have tried lately but in a new way. Taking advantage of his Sand Rush ability I can count on a Band + Adamant which allows to double the speed and connect more strongly his Badge Movement. However this way of using it has to be always seen that now there are more Mons that make a hostile metagame for Rillaboom. Take advantage of pasting more confident. I can not upload a little higher for things like Fini and the truth can give wins with just click Fishious Rend if you use it in full form

SMB · Dec 20, 2020

quick noms once wcup has finished:

:diancie:

1 -> 2

imo it never was tier 1 but i think we all can agree once diamond storm mechanics were found out it became way less threatening. Still, it's a perfect fit for semiroom builds, but it very often requieres a defensive item like resist berries or sitrus, mental herb... which, again, makes it less threatening

:genesect:

2 -> 1

probably the most splashable mon in the tier rn and the best scarfer. Its great coverage makes it patch so many weaknesses teams might have and always seems valuable in any game.

:zapdos-galar:

2 -> 3 or 4

Because of its typing i find it pretty difficult to build with it because it's a good partner for mons that share weaknesses with it (see: zygarde). It's a decent scarfer that outspeeds gene so there's that but you usually want to switch moves with it. Adrenaline orb set looks bad because nobody is switching their intimidate mons vs this unless you catch them on a double switch. Idk where this should end up but it's definitely not tier 2.

:tapu-koko:

2 -> 3

Electric types are bad. This one can hit dragon types and it's a sleep check tho so it's not as bad as the others.

:excadrill:

3 -> 5

I haven't seen it get usage outside of sand and sand is tier 5

:necrozma:

3 -> 4

Every team with a decent mu vs cress has a good mu vs necrozma. I think it's a pretty unexplored mon on the current metagame but i don't think tier 3 shows its current status. Good fit on semiroom builds on paper, in practice you have diancie for that.

:togekiss:

3 -> 5

Its defensive set still has a niche. I haven't seen anyone using an offensive togekiss set yet but doesn't seem tier 3 with stuff like gene, nihilego, kyub or koko around.

:dragapult:

4 -> 3

it has proven to be a good mon in wcup, with a pretty nice winrate. Good volcanion, dragon and grass types check (you're going to find at least 2 of these on every team), punishes subs and has a spammable stab.

:glastrier:

4 -> UR

there are a better options for full room than this. It's usable, but deserves to be ranked?

:moltres-galar:

4 -> 5

I think team med was the only one who used this on wcup? It's good enough to be ranked but tier 4 might be too much, since it requieres a turn to set up and a lot of common mons are really troublesome for it (fini, av kyub, nihilego to name a few), it also needs intimidate support and its flying stabs are either weak or have 70% accuracy.

:regieleki:

4 -> 5 or UR

Again, electric types are bad. This one was close to a 10% winrate in some moments of wcup. Ig its viability depends on whether you think its niche as a screen setter is good enough to be ranked.

:tyranitar:

4 -> 5

It's not better than the rest of sand setters so it should be with them

4 -> 3

great mon vs bulky builds, also walls gene without thunderbolt and can ohko stuff like kyub. Suffers a lot from its grass types and fini weaknesses, but on the right position or with speed control it can be really threatening.

:weezing-galar:

4 -> 5 or UR

There are better tspikes setters and there are better fairy types (specially those that can beat kyub and zygarde). Its ability is not that valuable anymore. I don't think its niche is enough to be ranked but if people think otherwise 5 is fine too.

mrjamesdoe03 · Dec 23, 2020

idk how i put the sprit but is heatran 3-->2
hetran have so much recistances and take 1/4 of the damege from moves steel, fairy, ice and grass, is inmune to poison and fire (his ability) . he´s the perfect teammate for the tapu fini , lando, zygarde and urshifu (both), he´s a good counter for celeestela, diance, amoonguss, rillaboom, kyurem (if dont have earth power). you can even take it with stealth rock, will-o-wisp, toxic, substitute, roar, taunt, and a move a quite strange; steel roller fails if theres no terrain, 130 of power and end the terrain, its perfect to stop the psychic terrain of indeedee or the grassy terrain of rillaboom.
Another one, landorus 4-->3 or higher
like his totem form, he´s a good wallbreaker, is safer than the totem and have a coverage of poison for the fairys, fight and grass being a good counter to urshifu, the tapus, rillaboom. the defect moves are earth powe and sludge bomb, you can choice between psychic , focus blast, grass knot, or a strange comb with weather ball, sand force and the sand storm for a move special type rock.
he have the same weakness so i see little unfair he is lower than his other form when have a good move set and better speed.

Paraplegic · Dec 29, 2020

Whole gang of nominations incoming:

:persian-alola:

UR -> 4
Persian has been popping up lately as a decent pick in this meta, between fake out, being a ghost resist, its speed tier, and being a much better check to zyg than incin its carving itself out a nice niche right now. (https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8doublesou-534198 replay of me using it vs ezrael in ltpl and it doing its thing pretty nicely, theres other replays out there but they arent in my replay feed so Im not finding them!)

:Spectrier:

4 -> 2
This mon has been terrorizing the tier since it caught on and it being as low as 4 right now is a crime, I think its one of the most dangerous mons in the tier and fits right in with the(rightful) 2 crowd.

:Diancie:

1 -> 2
Diamond storm was nerfed and its just not the same beast without the previous false diamond storm mechs, this one isnt the slightest bit controversial. It certainly doesnt belong in tier 1 with the two best mons in the tier which leads me to...

:Kyurem-black:

1 -> 2
I personally view fini and mew as heads and shoulders above the other mons in this meta, and personally I think they should be alone as tier 1 representatives. This nom isnt really so much me stating that kyube has gotten worse because its still amazing, but I think it fits better in with the 2 crowd as their best member rather than with the 1 crowd as its worst.

:zapdos-galar:

2 -> 4 or 5
This mon was way overrated by the ranking team last time, it absolutely does not deserve to be this high. Its , like, usable I guess? Usable enough to at least be ranked surely but 4 at absolute max lol, leaning towards 5 though.

:celesteela:

2 -> 3

what more do you need?

:Togekiss:

3 -> UR
SMB already nommed this to 5 but it hasnt seen use and I dont foresee that changing so I feel like escalating it a step further.

:porygon2:

4 -> 3
Ghost immune that doesnt suck ass. Memo put it well in the dou discord when he said something along the lines of due to its combo of bulk, coverage, trick room, and type, it will consistently find a way to be useful from game to game and imo it fits better in tier 3 and those highly usable but not meta defining mons more so than tier 4 with the less good than tier 3 mons.

:metagross:

tier 4 -> 3
Gross is an epic steel type that offers boatloads of utility both defensive and offensive. Its the only reasonably common steel type that actually defensively switches in on nihi, its imo one of the more consistently useful rocks setters right now, and steel roller is so strong and in practice a fairly easy move to click more than once and nuke things with. Much better than everything in 4 right now besides the things Im nomming up with it imo.

:blastoise:

4 -> 3
I think 4 really underrates this things value right now. Its the only legitimate redirection besides amoonguss(and indeedee ig) and lends itself so well to positioning. I dont think its gotten better so much as it was previously underrated last vote.

:zeraora:

4 -> 3
Fastest fake out in the tier, still the best and most threatening electric in the tier imo, and it just doesnt belong down in 4 with the relatively garbage mons.

:charizard:

and

5 -> UR
I dont see much value to either of these mons right now and they stick out to me as the most egregious mons that are ranked so here is my attempt to purge them.

I also agree with *most* of SMB's noms and am thankful he typed a lot of them out so I didnt have to(I touched on a few of the same mons but thats because I didnt look at his post until after I had already started and Im not about to waste the effort). May or may not edit this with more noms if any come to me, but otherwise that is it! I can now say Ive officially made a dou vr post for the first time ever, and boy do I hate typing shit.

variationonatheme · Dec 30, 2020

There are a couple changes to the VR that, when I step back and think about them, seem pretty obvious to me.

Of course my last post re: Regieleki making the Meta worse just got trashed like most of my others here on Smogon. Funny thing is I'm pretty used to it now. I'm a nobody here and my opinions are my own and don't often follow the group think. My only accomplishments of note are topping the Gen 7 DOU ladder many times (with different alts) and finally breaking 92% GXE recently (under a different alt) in the same format with a team featuring unranked Whimsicott (though my latest water team has been close to that mark as well). I'm no great shakes, but it's amusing for me to have my comments dismissed as "bad" on discord by tour bros with significantly worse GXEs. Of course they'd say the ladder and GXEs don't matter at all, but for some weird reason I find myself respecting the tour bros who can do both tours and ladder well (and there are a few of those--respect to you guys).

Anyway, maybe I don't know much about Gen 8 DOU, but here are a couple recent observations:

--The vast majority of good teams have a terrain setter. With the terrain nerf in Gen 8, Kokes and Lele are worse and Bulu is regarded as trash. Fini is better by default, but Rilla is pretty good too with FO, GG and U-Turn being kinda broke (AV is also like the best defense with pinch berries nerfed and Rilla exploits it admirably). Rilla is the best alternative to Fini and maybe used more even at a high level (see, e.g., Resource - 2020 Doubles Invitational Teams, Replays, and Usage Stats | Smogon Forums). This is like definition of tier 1. Primary primate.

2 -> 1

--Good teams almost always have an intimidate abuser. With Mega Mence and Manectric gone and Scrafty getting no love (even with stab CC), Incin and Lando are pretty much the only game in town (respect to N1N1 for trying to use nonmega Mence at a high level on the ladder recently). At least one of them will be found on the vast majority of good teams. They are essential building blocks. This again is like definition of tier 1. You guys had 5 tier 1 mons in the last gen (far fewer than any other ranking). Not sure why you can't have at least that many here (Rilla naturally replaces Kokes from Gen 7 and it looks like Genesect gets to be the top steel with Mega Gross gone). Mew was T3 in Gen 7--now has less competition as a TW setter--so I get that he's better, but there's a non-trivial chance he eventually gets back to T2.

2 -> 1

2 -> 1

My prediction: you guys will trash this post too because tour bros gotta tour bro (sad and shocked faces please!), but you'll come around eventually, as we have a long way to go with this Gen...

zoe · Dec 30, 2020

This may be a bit to late to make it into the nominations, but better late than never.

:ferrothorn:

UR -> 3 or 4

Ferrothorn is a nightmare for some mons to deal with. Sure, it can't do much to fire types and some fighting moves shatter it, but ferro is unbreakable for other mons, such as Nihilego, Diancie, Tapu Fini and Kyurem Black. Ferrothorn is resistant to all of Nihilego's moves and takes nothing from meteor beam, Ferro also takes nothing from Diancie's Diamond Storm, is 2HKOed by a +2 Body press, while being faster in TR. It's basically the same with Tapu Fini except no body press, and Kyurem Black's max invesment ice beam only 4HKO's it. In return, Ferro does a minimum of 156% to Nihilego and 2HKO's Kyurem Black, Tapu Fini, and Diancie.

Ferro also walls Rillaboom without superpower (even then max attack Rilla peaks a 68%), Genesect without fire coverage, (which isn't common, but still) and both of the Landorus forms (unless Lando-I has focus blast). It also has great longevity with Leech Seed giving it good recovery while wearing down the opponent. Of course, this is until the seeded mon switches out, but they can be forced to switch because of the seeds. For example, if Incineroar is caught on the switch with leech seed, than it's going to get rapidly worn down, and if ferro switches out into a teammate that can take the hit, the seeds are going to help them stomach that hit better, and god forbid both of the opposing mons are seeded.

The seeds and access to both stealth rocks and spikes give it great utility while being quite threatening as a whole make a solid mon in my eyes.

I put it in tier 3 or 4 because it does require support to deal with fire types, rillaboom is better offensively, and other issues (Zapdos).

Here is a game where ferrothorn does ferrothorn things: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doublesou-1252993806-a4miseio0t8jx7c0r990njw7b0pfbc4pw

Idyll · Jan 10, 2021

adding some more since this round took a while

:celesteela:

Celesteela to 3

adding some real and up to date reasoning for a Celesteela nom. This got no usage in Invitationals I'm pretty sure lmao, practically absent in the meta rn. At this point in the metagame, nobody worth their time actually gets outright beat by this, teams are generally quite prepared for it as far as natural teambuilding goes. In practice people can handle the lack of offense presence well enough, and the defensive typing itself doesn't add much in terms of meaningful resists which lessens its value when not used as a build-around. I'm nomming it down to 3 because it's probably okay and can still ball out, but yeah, not really seen atm.

:blastoise:

:toise: to 2

Was nommed to 3 but could probably go to 2 tbh. Has shown that it's quite the capable support Pokemon throughout Invis. I personally believe that it has the general effectiveness to be valid at 2; its kit of Fake Out + FM with that bulk is generally good and widely applicable, but it's also shown to be really great at making stuff like NP Spec, DD Pult, and even QD Moth look brazy in this metagame. Its typing is also quite nice for keeping Choice Scarf Genesect at bay, which is quite appreciated by the teams that Blastoise fits into.

:lurantis:

Lurantis to 3

Lurantis has made the rounds in semi-TR comps, and it personally passes the eyetest for me. It as a Pokemon has made for some notable appearances and performances in Invitationals, being able to be a snowballing threat in TR that can threaten Tapu Fini / Rillaboom / Lando / Incin comps is pretty impressive. It has a niche role in the metagame as one of the few better TR attackers for SemiTR comps, in particular as one that isn't just the TR setter itself. At the very least, by the scaling of this VR, Lurantis has had more usage than the likes of TTar, Aegislash, and Glastrier ever did.

Bless · Jan 12, 2021

I don't know where to post this so I'll just do it here. This is the overall usage stats from DWCOP and Invitationals compiled together. The meta has been developing for 2 and a half months now since DLC2 came out and maybe this will give the voters a new perspective on tiering mons for the upcoming voting slate.

DWCOP and Invitationals Usage Stats

SS DOU

Code:

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Incineroar         |  132 |  49.62% |  47.73% |
| 2    | Rillaboom          |  112 |  42.11% |  53.57% |
| 3    | Landorus-Therian   |   99 |  37.22% |  55.56% |
| 4    | Mew                |   88 |  33.08% |  51.14% |
| 5    | Genesect           |   87 |  32.71% |  54.02% |
| 5    | Tapu Fini          |   87 |  32.71% |  51.72% |
| 7    | Kyurem-Black       |   86 |  32.33% |  53.49% |
| 8    | Zygarde            |   77 |  28.95% |  49.35% |
| 9    | Diancie            |   70 |  26.32% |  47.14% |
| 10   | Volcanion          |   60 |  22.56% |  56.67% |
| 11   | Kartana            |   55 |  20.68% |  43.64% |
| 12   | Amoonguss          |   40 |  15.04% |  50.00% |
| 13   | Tapu Koko          |   37 |  13.91% |  35.14% |
| 14   | Nihilego           |   32 |  12.03% |  43.75% |
| 15   | Dragapult          |   30 |  11.28% |  56.67% |
| 15   | Tapu Lele          |   30 |  11.28% |  46.67% |
| 17   | Tsareena           |   26 |   9.77% |  34.62% |
| 18   | Spectrier          |   24 |   9.02% |  62.50% |
| 18   | Zapdos             |   24 |   9.02% |  45.83% |
| 20   | Celesteela         |   23 |   8.65% |  56.52% |
| 20   | Cresselia          |   23 |   8.65% |  56.52% |
| 20   | Urshifu-*          |   23 |   8.65% |  39.13% |
| 23   | Blastoise          |   22 |   8.27% |  77.27% |
| 24   | Regieleki          |   20 |   7.52% |  25.00% |
| 25   | Porygon2           |   18 |   6.77% |  55.56% |
| 26   | Heatran            |   16 |   6.02% |  56.25% |
| 27   | Zapdos-Galar       |   15 |   5.64% |  46.67% |
| 28   | Metagross          |   13 |   4.89% |  53.85% |
| 28   | Volcarona          |   13 |   4.89% |  53.85% |
| 30   | Zeraora            |   11 |   4.14% |  45.45% |
| 31   | Lurantis           |   10 |   3.76% |  50.00% |
| 31   | Aegislash          |   10 |   3.76% |  40.00% |
| 31   | Tyranitar          |   10 |   3.76% |  40.00% |
| 34   | Landorus           |    9 |   3.38% |  66.67% |
| 34   | Necrozma           |    9 |   3.38% |  66.67% |
| 34   | Torkoal            |    9 |   3.38% |  55.56% |
| 37   | Kingdra            |    8 |   3.01% |  50.00% |
| 37   | Excadrill          |    8 |   3.01% |  37.50% |
| 39   | Chansey            |    7 |   2.63% |  57.14% |
| 39   | Suicune            |    7 |   2.63% |  14.29% |
| 41   | Dracovish          |    6 |   2.26% |  50.00% |
| 42   | Buzzwole           |    5 |   1.88% | 100.00% |
| 42   | Politoed           |    5 |   1.88% |  60.00% |
| 42   | Pelipper           |    5 |   1.88% |  40.00% |
| 45   | Sylveon            |    4 |   1.50% |  75.00% |
| 45   | Victini            |    4 |   1.50% |  50.00% |
| 45   | Indeedee-F         |    4 |   1.50% |  50.00% |
| 48   | Lilligant          |    3 |   1.13% | 100.00% |
| 48   | Latias             |    3 |   1.13% |  66.67% |
| 48   | Hatterene          |    3 |   1.13% |  66.67% |
| 48   | Tornadus           |    3 |   1.13% |  66.67% |
| 48   | Glastrier          |    3 |   1.13% |  33.33% |
| 48   | Thundurus-Therian  |    3 |   1.13% |  33.33% |
| 48   | Toxapex            |    3 |   1.13% |  33.33% |
| 48   | Slurpuff           |    3 |   1.13% |  33.33% |
| 48   | Persian-Alola      |    3 |   1.13% |  33.33% |
| 48   | Regidrago          |    3 |   1.13% |   0.00% |
| 48   | Latios             |    3 |   1.13% |   0.00% |
| 48   | Ninetales-Alola    |    3 |   1.13% |   0.00% |
| 60   | Dragalge           |    2 |   0.75% | 100.00% |
| 60   | Nidoqueen          |    2 |   0.75% |  50.00% |
| 60   | Nidoking           |    2 |   0.75% |  50.00% |
| 60   | Salamence          |    2 |   0.75% |  50.00% |
| 60   | Moltres-Galar      |    2 |   0.75% |  50.00% |
| 60   | Stakataka          |    2 |   0.75% |  50.00% |
| 60   | Naganadel          |    2 |   0.75% |  50.00% |
| 60   | Ludicolo           |    2 |   0.75% |  50.00% |
| 60   | Weezing-Galar      |    2 |   0.75% |   0.00% |
| 60   | Terrakion          |    2 |   0.75% |   0.00% |
| 60   | Arctovish          |    2 |   0.75% |   0.00% |
| 60   | Kommo-o            |    2 |   0.75% |   0.00% |
| 72   | Comfey             |    1 |   0.38% | 100.00% |
| 72   | Shuckle            |    1 |   0.38% | 100.00% |
| 72   | Blissey            |    1 |   0.38% | 100.00% |
| 72   | Bronzong           |    1 |   0.38% | 100.00% |
| 72   | Scizor             |    1 |   0.38% | 100.00% |
| 72   | Polteageist        |    1 |   0.38% | 100.00% |
| 72   | Ferrothorn         |    1 |   0.38% | 100.00% |
| 72   | Primarina          |    1 |   0.38% | 100.00% |
| 72   | Registeel          |    1 |   0.38% |   0.00% |
| 72   | Whimsicott         |    1 |   0.38% |   0.00% |
| 72   | Scrafty            |    1 |   0.38% |   0.00% |
| 72   | Togekiss           |    1 |   0.38% |   0.00% |
| 72   | Gigalith           |    1 |   0.38% |   0.00% |
| 72   | Dragonite          |    1 |   0.38% |   0.00% |
| 72   | Thundurus          |    1 |   0.38% |   0.00% |
| 72   | Entei              |    1 |   0.38% |   0.00% |
| 72   | Gastrodon          |    1 |   0.38% |   0.00% |
| 72   | Venusaur           |    1 |   0.38% |   0.00% |
| 72   | Klefki             |    1 |   0.38% |   0.00% |
| 72   | Arctozolt          |    1 |   0.38% |   0.00% |
| 72   | Dracozolt          |    1 |   0.38% |   0.00% |
| 72   | Blacephalon        |    1 |   0.38% |   0.00% |
| 72   | Kyurem             |    1 |   0.38% |   0.00% |

Qwello Lee · Jan 12, 2021

After my experience with it in invitationals I'd like to nom

:dragalge:

UR --> 4/5

dragalge offers a potent special attacker for semiroom builds and boasts a slew of good matchups against mons in high tiers (out of T1/2 only genesect, cb zygarde, physical kyurem, steela and nihilego beat it 1v1) and even its not-so-good matchups get turned on their head if trick room is up. In terms of usefulness to a team I see it in a way similar to lurantis: outside of trick room it's generally able to at least trade for itself by tanking a hit and retaliating with draco and inside trick room is one of the best ways to push the speed advantage.
Personally I think dragalge fits the definition of tier 4 to a T, being limited to a specific team style but being really good in that particular niche, although I'd understand it going to 5 due to it still being underexplored and seeing success on only one team (still better than stuff like ninetales or scrafty that have seen success on literally 0).

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doublesou-1259542508
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doublesou-1255256994

MajorBowman · Jan 14, 2021

The latest round of voting has been completed, anything not voted on during this slate will be included in the next.

Genesect Tier 2 →Tier 1

Paraplegic: No, I dont think gene is on the level of fini and mew in regards to game to game consistency. Easily a top two tier 2 tho.

SMB: yes, my nom

Shrop: 2, agree with what para said. Can feel like deadweight against redirection centered teams to add on to that

MajorBowman: 2, it’s a great pivot with great coverage but it’s not extraordinary enough to be tier 1. It would need either a lot more bulk and a bit more power to truly take over games and that’s just not possible

Z Strats: 2, If it was able to have the speed it gets from scarf with the ability to switch moves it could be tier 1 but it does not.

Rillaboom Tier 2 →Tier 1

Paraplegic: No, boomer is super splashable and really good but it isnt as good of a standalone mon as the two I have pegged above it imo.

SMB: no, great utility mon for sure but it doesn’t feel as good as it once was. Pretty weak without terrain, faces competition with more grass types and the presence of kyub and gene hurts it.

Shrop: 2. Agree with smb and para, it checks the boxes for being t2 (great utility kit, terrain setter, etc) but lacks the ability to take over a game like the t1 mons

MajorBowman: 2, agree with all of the above, I feel very similarly about Genesect and Rillaboom

Z Strats: 1, It’s a super splashable mon and grassy terrain is really good. Between grassy terrain, fake out, a good priority option and uturn it has almost everything you need, and you can also run band if you want. I usually find myself wanting to run either Rilla or Fini on a team and I think they both deserve tier 1

Incineroar Tier 2 →Tier 1

Paraplegic: No, incin is obviously good but its certainly not tier 1 good in my humble opinion.

SMB: no, intimidate is not necessary on so many teams anymore and having to decide between using one of sitrus or itemless (boots) incineroar is what doesn’t make it tier 1 imo.

Shrop: 2. Intim fake out mon will always be good but the fact that the meta is no longer mono psychic means that incin is less good

MajorBowman: 2, don’t have anything to add to the above

Z Strats: 2, It doesn’t really do much other than come in with intimidate, press fake out, and then pivot until it dies

Landorus-T Tier 2 →Tier 1

Paraplegic: God no. This gen is easily the worst lando has ever been and I honestly have it pegged as an iffy tier 2, let alone it being tier 1.

SMB: tier 3, as i said intimidate is not necessary on so many teams, defensive set is bad, scarf is bad too or at least not very good. It’s threatened by a lot of relevant mons and grass types have never been this good. 1 or 2 mons on every team are immune to rocks. Honestly I think lando’s best set is specs and i don’t think that set is tier 2.

Shrop: 2, agree with above. Still feels good enough to keep in t2 but you definitely risk getting simply overrun in this meta if you opt to use lando t

MajorBowman: 3, lando-t feels really bad right now. The things that teams often relied on it to check like Koko and opposing Landorus are just not as common or important. Like SMB said Intimidate doesn’t feel necessary at all, and Lando is pretty bad into the top mons

Z Strats: 2, It still does SM lando-t things, its ground coverage just isn’t enough for it to be tier 1 in this meta though.

Diancie Tier 1 →Tier 2

Paraplegic: I was one of the people who nommed this.

SMB: yes, my nom

Shrop: 2 feels fine. Diamond storm “nerf” is very noticeable but it still is a good mon on semi room comps

MajorBowman: 2, after the Diamond Storm mechanics were corrected Diancie definitely dropped off in power. Still a great mon with a lot of solid tools but not a premiere threat

Z Strats: 2, It’s great on semiroom but definitely can’t run away with games as easily as it used to

Kyurem-B Tier 1 →Tier 2

Paraplegic: My nom.

SMB: tier 1, kyub is a top threat not only offensively but defensively and is arguably the best mon in the tier

Shrop: 1, hella restricting to play/build against. There’s never a mu where you wish you brought a team without kyub as it switches into so much. Icy wind can be really difficult to play around in the midgame too. Also you can literally put this dragon pokemon on your team as a fini check mish

MajorBowman: 1, agree with both SMB and shrop. It can be really tough to switch into the offensive set, and the defensive set refuses to die. It’s hard to find a team that kyurem-b wouldn’t do well on

Z Strats: 1, Everything has already been said above

Mew Tier 1 →Tier 2

Paraplegic: No, I think mew is, after fini, easily the best mon in the tier. It does the jobs you want it to do on a game to game basis without ever really falling flat and I think theres something to be said about that kind of consistency.

SMB: no, all the support it provides and the coverage moves options it can run make it easily tier 1

Shrop: 2, as the meta stands today it is not deserving of t1 despite its kit imo. On a game to game basis idt you get the same mileage out of mew as you would with fini/kyub

MajorBowman: 2, it has a lot of cool stuff but can’t do it all at once. Some of the more offensive sets I’ve seen are neat but Mew doesn’t really do real damage to anything with some semblance of bulk. Would go no lower than 2 because Mew is always useful in any game, but 1 feels wrong

Z Strats: 2, Agree with Bowman for Mew to be tier 1 it would need more than 4 move slots

Tapu Fini Tier 1 →Tier 2

Paraplegic: Absolutely not, this is imo the hands down best mon in the tier and it deserves tier 1 above everything else easily.

SMB: no? It’s the best bulky set up mon and the best sleep check in the tier

Shrop: 1 lol

MajorBowman: definitely 1

Z Strats: 1

Tapu Koko Tier 2 →Tier 3

Paraplegic: Yes, koko isnt anywhere near as good as it was last gen. It certainly still needs to be respected as a threat or it can and will fuck you up, but its ceiling really isnt anywhere near as high as it was in sm and I think this ranking better reflects that.

SMB: yes, my nom

Shrop: 3, probably should be 4 or 5 because this mon seems very very unviable but 3 for now seems fine

MajorBowman: 3, Koko gets eaten by a good portion of tiers 1 and 2 and isn’t nearly as potent as in the past. Agree with Paraplegic that it still needs to be respected but it’s just not as hard to keep it from going off

Z Strats: 3, It’s pretty weak offensively and defensively and electric terrain is just not good compared to the other terrains

Kartana Tier 2 →Tier 3

Paraplegic: No. Kart is super duper scary and all it takes is a free turn to take over games sometimes. Its definitely on the level of the other 2s imo.

SMB: tier 2, it is easier to snowball with white herb, new speed mechanics are good for it and grass types are very good rn

Shrop: 2, honestly feels like one of the best t2 mons. Fast speed twind/sub is super good and its remarkably easy to pin down your opponents in the midgame with kart.

MajorBowman: 2, still a great mon with a lot of power. Matches up well against a lot of important stuff too, Kart is still in a good spot

Z Strats: 2, It’s a big offensive threat that can run away with games if you aren’t careful

Celesteela Tier 2 →Tier 3

Paraplegic: I was one of the people who nommed this.

SMB: tier 3, it’s easier to check now that the meta has settled down.

Shrop: 4, very easy to check and is actual fodder against offense/setup offense. Imo definitely warrants getting knocked down two tiers

MajorBowman: 4, agree with shrop. Celesteela isn’t nearly as annoying as it would need to be for it to be anywhere close to 2

Z Strats: 4, See screenshot in Para’s nom

Nihilego Tier 2 →Tier 3

Paraplegic: LOL no. Nihi is so amazingly good at breaking teams open and its total package is just so good and useful. Definitely a tier 2 level threat imo.

SMB: tier 2, it’s worse than it was on the first week of dlc but still good enough for tier 2. Its typing is great offensively.

Shrop: 2, agree with above. We freaked out week 1 and nihi use has died down but its still a very relevant offensive threat.

MajorBowman: 2, agree with all of the above

Z Strats: 2, What SMB said

Zapdos-G Tier 2 →Tier 3 or Lower

Paraplegic: 5. I was one of the people who nommed this down.

SMB: tier 4, my nom

Shrop: 4, I’ve been very anti zapdos-g but i think it has some viability. 4 seems about right

MajorBowman: 5, only has fringe viability in a meta where intimidate users are on the decline

Z Strats: 5, Scarf always seems too weak and band is hard to fit on a team

Dragapult Tier 4 →Tier 3

Paraplegic: Yes. I think special pult is trash but dd pult is an amazing wincon on a tier 3 threat level imo.

SMB: yes, my nom

Shrop: 3, good kart/volcanion check. Two viable sets that play very differently. Honestly could see this mon going up to t2 at some point.

MajorBowman: abstain, I haven’t seen a dragapult in what feels like months

Z Strats: 3, Offensive ghost types good and both special and dd sets can be scary

Urshifu-R Tier 4 →Tier 3

Paraplegic: No. I dont think this mon is that good in this current meta, and while Im fine with it being tier 4 I couldnt in good faith vote it to move up.

SMB: yes, my nom

Shrop: 3, kinda iffy on this one but I tend to agree more with smb’s line of thought than para. I haven’t used it a whole lot, but I’ve been pinned down by it enough to think its deserving of t3.

MajorBowman: Surging Strikes alone keeps Urshifu in tier 3 for me, it’s such a silly move. Unseen Fist is bonkers too, even if Urshifu isn’t OHKOing everything it’s tough to keep in check without the right combination of mons

Z Strats: 4, This mon seems quite match up reliant and even when it looks like it has matchup I never feel like it’s too difficult to deal with

Porygon2 Tier 4 →Tier 3

Paraplegic: My nom

SMB: tier 4, i don’t think it can accomplish that much on games to deserve tier 3. Most teams have solid ways to check it. Ghost horse is overrated.

Shrop: 2 for sure, this mon is hella good and is seeing a lot of usage at a high level for a very good reason. Semi room in general is a very strong comp and p2 is the most important mon on those builds. I think it originally saw use solely because it was a ghost horse check but I think we started to realize that p2 might be the most dangerous wincon in the format. It’s really easy to play around telegraphed toxics and I think most ppl rn are being very lazy (putting toxic and knock off on a team and saying you are ready to go) in their p2 checks. If it gets a download boost it turns into an actual nightmare and until I see ppl consistently beat this mon I think it is well deserving of t2.

MajorBowman: 3, P2 is the quintessential glue mon on a lot of teams. A bulky mon that can set TR and stick around while doing damage is super important for semiroom, and P2 checks a lot of common stuff very well.

Z Strats: 2, Basically what Shrop said it’s a very bulky mon with recovery and with a download boost becomes a big offensive threat too. With good speed control in trick room on top of that it is a very good mon that I think is worthy of tier 2

Metagross Tier 4 →Tier 3

Paraplegic: My nom.

SMB: tier 4 is fine for it, people use this with steel roller and is not a very reliable move. It does pair well with stuff like amoonguss but sometimes you’ll want to attack something with a steel type move and you won’t be able to do it, that leaves you on a really weird situation. There are many more downsides like once you’ve clicked sr it might want to leave the field, everyone already expects shuca berry as its item, idk it doesn’t feel close to tier 3 for me.

Shrop: 4, smb said it very well.

MajorBowman: 4, agree with SMB

Z Strats: 4, It wants to many moves to become truly useful and can never use them all usually making it an awkward mon to use

Blastoise Tier 4 →Tier 3

Paraplegic: My nom.

SMB: yes, I’m not a blastoise fan but sometimes it’s really annoying and placing it on tier 3 will show how the metagame as evolved to a more set up centered one.

Shrop: 2, redirection is hella good and toise is the best support mon in the tier

MajorBowman: 3, Fake Out + Follow Me is bonkers and enables a lot of the common setup mons in the tier

Z Strats: 2, The bulk with follow me and fake out along with the rise of set up sweepers is enough to put Blastoise in 2 I feel

Zeraora Tier 4 →Tier 3

Paraplegic: My nom.

SMB: tier 4, good utility mon but that’s it, i don’t think it is at the level of other electric types like koko. It has the same or more downsides and it’s weaker.

Shrop: 3 as heck, best early game mon in the format. Fast pivot/fake out is great, threatening fini is epic and knock off is always useful

MajorBowman: 4, agree with SMB. Some neat tools in its belt but often doesn’t do what you need it to

Z Strats: 3, I agree with Para more than SMB here

Necrozma Tier 3 →Tier 4

Paraplegic: Yes. Necrozma has potential but no one is using it so justifying a tier 3 rank for it is super difficult.

SMB: yes, my nom

Shrop: 4 seems good

MajorBowman: 4, agree with all the above

Z Strats: 4, It just seems so hard to justify putting it on a team over other options

Tapu Lele Tier 3 →Tier 4

Paraplegic: No. Lele is easily on the level of the other tier 3s and above all the tier 4s. The nom says lele struggles with the terrain nerf and rilla being so common, but imo lele should be seen as a utility mon first and foremost this gen rather than an offensive piece, and I actually find it pretty useful in combating rilla teams if you position well due to the disruption that psychic terrain can cause to fake out heavy compositions.

SMB: tier 3 I agree with para here

Shrop: agree, fake out is the best move in the format and lele helps position around it

MajorBowman: 3, psychic terrain is still good and Lele can still pack a big punch

Z Strats: 3, Like Para said as long as you position well it can still be really useful, definitely belongs with the other mons that are tier 3

Excadrill Tier 3 →Tier 4 or 5

Paraplegic: 4. It doesnt see the usage to justify 3 currently but I think its a way better mon than all the trash we have down in 5 lol.

SMB: tier 5, my nom

Shrop: 5, honestly i dont even think drill deserves its spot on sand teams anymore and it is completely useless otherwises

MajorBowman: 5, sand is garbage now and excadrill can’t keep up with the rest of the format

Z Strats: 5, This isn’t even seen on most sand teams anymore and you definitely aren’t seeing it without sand

Togekiss Tier 3 →Tier 4, 5, or UR

Paraplegic: UR. I was one of the people who nommed this.

SMB: tier 5, my nom.

Shrop: UR - completely unviable mon

MajorBowman: 5, could see UR eventually but redirection is still good and Togekiss can do some things that Blastoise and Amoonguss can’t

Z Strats: UR, This mon doesn’t exist anymore

Dracovish Tier 5 →Tier 4

Paraplegic: No. Vish doesnt see much usage, and is combated quite well by some very common in this meta mons. I dont see it at a tier 4 level threat.

SMB: sand = tier 5

Shrop: agree w smb on sands validity in the tier

MajorBowman: No, dracovish didn’t get any better with sand and was already turbo struggling

Z Strats: 5, I also agree with SMB

Moltres-G Tier 4 →Tier 5

Paraplegic: Yes. I *still* think this mon has some amount of potential, especially in a ghost horse meta, but tier 5 is the only thing you could really justify.

SMB: yes, my nom

Shrop: 5, yh even in a meta where ghost is hella good offensively moltres-g lacks the power to get anything done offensively

MajorBowman: yes, gets hard stopped by too many things to go any higher

Z Strats: 5, It checks ghost horse! Other than that it’s not doing much

Tyranitar Tier 4 →Tier 5

Paraplegic: No. Dark types are good, especially ones with good spdef. Sand also isnt a tier 5 strategy imo between tar and exca.

SMB: yes, my nom

Shrop: 5, you are playing 5 v 6 when ttar is on your team

MajorBowman: 5, Tyranitar has it pretty rough right now and sand as a whole is not what it once was

Z Strats: 5, Like SMB said before sand = tier 5

Regieleki Tier 4 →Tier 5 or UR

Paraplegic: UR. lol duu mon.

SMB: UR, my nom

Shrop: UR, YUCK

MajorBowman: UR, for too one dimensional

Z Strats: UR, It’s just bad lol. Electroweb can provide alright speed control I guess but all this mon really does is a tiny bit of chip then dies

Glastrier Tier 4 →Tier 5 or UR

Paraplegic: 5. I think this mon has a niche but its usually quite hard to justify this over kyube on most compositions.

SMB: UR, my nom

Shrop: UR, yh not much more to add outside of what smb said

MajorBowman: UR, hard to think of a team where it fits other than fullroom and even then it underwhelms

Z Strats: UR, What Bowman said

Weezing-G Tier 4 →Tier 5 or UR

Paraplegic: 5. God weezing.

SMB: UR, my nom

Shrop: UR, i want it to be viable, unfortunately, it isn’t

MajorBowman: UR :(

Z Strats: UR, Other than tspikes the support it offers is just not that good right now and tspikes is done better by other mons

Charizard Tier 5 →UR

Paraplegic: My nom. Sun hasnt seen usage yet and with us having a boatload of good fire resists again I just dont see this mon being effective anymore.

SMB: UR is fine for now until someone builds cringe sun 3.0 and proves to be decent

Shrop: UR, free mega stones

MajorBowman: UR, sun fell off mega hard

Z Strats: UR, No good sun teams this meta = no reason for charizard to be ranked

Gigalith Tier 5 →UR

Paraplegic: My nom. Gigalith is just garbage.

SMB: yeah UR ig

Shrop: UR, nothing more to add

MajorBowman: low budget ttar and ttar isn’t even good, UR

Z Strats: UR, It’s not good on semiroom anymore and ttar is the better sand setter no real reason to use this mon

Spectrier Tier 4 →Tier 2 or 3

Paraplegic: My nom. Ghost horse is EASILY one of the scariest mons in the tier and a sure in for 2 imo.

SMB: tier 3, it’s undeniable that tier 4 is too low for it but I also think tier 2 is too high. I feel like it’s kind of overrated (I’m not sure about this but I bet its winrate after wcup is lower than 50%). Most spectrier teams seem like it has been put there randomly or just because it is the new toy. It needs many support to work properly unless you just want it to click shadow ball once and die and even with the right support there are some stuff you can’t cover.

Shrop: 2, super potent offensive threat, being immune to fake out is truly nutty, incredibly easy to support and things can really get out of hand quickly if g horse gets running

MajorBowman: 3, I respect it but I think it’s a bit overhyped. It feels like it just barely doesn’t do enough damage, and when it’s as frail as it is that can be the difference between a snowball and a flop

Z Strats: 2, There’s very little ghost checks in this tier and it’s very easy for this mon to just win

Persian-A UR →Ranked

Paraplegic: 4. My nom. This mon is epic and is so good for positioning. This meta is like a perfect storm for it to succeed in.

SMB: yeah rank this, I’d say tier 5 for now tho

Shrop: 4 seems fine? I’ve seen a couple ppl use it well and it has a cool niche rn. Realistically it will see no usage once the meta settles more but its cool that its okay rn

MajorBowman: 4 seems very aggressive, maybe 5 but I’d lean towards keeping it UR. I get the appeal but to me it’s always been one of those mons that looks way better on paper

Z Strats: 5, It’s definitely usable but I’m not convinced it’s tier 4 just yet

Ferrothorn UR →Ranked

Paraplegic: No, UR. Ferro is so passive and I dont see where Im using it over both all the steels and grasses that are better, less passive, and more splashable than it.

SMB: No, i think i was the only one who used ferro in wcup and, believe me, it’s really hard to make it work without draining all your momentum and there are many weaknesses you have to cover. My team worked on my game but I would recommend to use different grass types 99% of the times.

Shrop: UR, mayyyybe it has a niche on like full stall? But other than that you are sucking your teams tempo when you use ferro

MajorBowman: UR, far too passive for this tier

Z Strats: UR, what others have said

Heatran Tier 3 →Higher or Lower

Paraplegic: 3. It got noms to go to both 2 and 4 but I think heatran is pretty accurately placed in tier 3 tbh.

SMB: definitely not tier 2, tier 3 seems right for it.

Shrop: 3, its as tier 3 of a mon as you can be

MajorBowman: 3 works, the fact that you can run fast eruption now opened up a lot of opportunities for heatran and it can put in a good amount of work

Z Strats: 3, It’s a solid option for a fire type, 3 is good

Results
:diancie:

1 -> 2

1 -> 2

2 -> 3

2 -> 4

2 -> 5

4 -> 3

4 -> 3

3 -> 4

3 -> 5

3 -> UR

4 -> 5

4 -> UR

5 -> UR

4 -> 2

UR -> 5

Darkmalice · Jan 19, 2021

Clarifying if Urishu-R should be tier 3 or 4? The voting slab seemed to have three in support for 3 (SMB, Shrop, MajorBowman) and two in support for 4 (Paraplegic, Z Strats).

Paraplegic · Jan 19, 2021

Darkmalice said:
Clarifying if Urishu-R should be tier 3 or 4? The voting slab seemed to have three in support for 3 (SMB, Shrop, MajorBowman) and two in support for 4 (Paraplegic, Z Strats).

It should be 3 and that was an error that slipped through the cracks. Rectifying right now, thanks for pointing it out!

YoBuddy · Jan 31, 2021

Tapu Koko 3 -> 4

Electrics are having a pretty tough time in DLC2 SS and Koko is no exception. It's difficult to justify using it over the other Electrics. Zeraora has more speed, more bulk and access to Fake Out, Knock Off, Coaching and Snarl. Zapdos is stronger offensively, especially on rain, and has Tailwind, better bulk and is able to make use of Roost. Terrain control is nice but nowhere near as necessary as it was in SM and offensively Koko struggles to fire off terrain boosted attacks with Rillaboom at ~45% usage.

Chansey, Hippowdon, Milotic, Naganadel, Scrafty, Stakataka and Terrakion 5 -> UR

To my knowledge these mons have had essentially zero usage and have little success when someone decides to use them.

Sylveon 5 -> UR

Sylveon has at least had one or two decent games so far but not enough to deserve to be ranked. It's really hard to justify using the Calm Mind set over Tapu Fini, especially considering Sylveon loses to the main grasses in the meta anyway.

Hatterene and Indeedee-F 5 -> UR

Fullroom is generally considered a matchup fish at the best of times, but what matchup does Fullroom, and by extension Hatterene, actually win? The usage stats are dominated by bulky pivots and with Porygon2 semiroom builds rising in popularity the meta is going to be even better prepared to deal with Trick Room. Indeedee might be able to stay tier 5 but it faces stiff competition from the likes of Blastoise and Amoongus as a support mon and is very rarely used over either of them.

Ninetales-K, Venusaur and Torkoal 5 -> UR

Sun has barely been sighted since Crown tundra dropped. With Tapu Fini widely regarded as the most mon in the tier sleep spam becomes much more difficult and the increase in power across the board and abundant Fake Out users prevent Sun from being able to run over teams like it did in previous metas. Torkoal actually has had some usage in Winter Seasonal so I could see it potentially staying.

Dracovish, Tyranitar, Excadrill 5 -> UR

Sand is probably one of the better archetypes in rank 5 right now but it's still worth looking at dropping it to UR. Tyranitar itself isn't completely awful as far as weather setters go but the sand abusers just leave a lot to be desired right now. Sand Rush Dracovish really struggles to deal the damage that got people hyped about it a year ago. Choice Band Sand Rush Dracovish deals only slightly more damage than Urshifu-R but comes at the cost of requiring a potentially unviable partner to run alongside it, losing out on Fighting STAB, Aqua Jet, U-Turn and breaking through Protect. Most players can't justify using Tyranitar and Dracovish over Urshifu-R and Mew/Tailwind Kartana/Tornadus etc. Excadrill struggles to break through many of the metagame's bulky mons and stacks weaknesses with Tyranitar that are relatively common in the current meta.

Whimsicott 5 -> UR

The meta is full of Fake Out, bulky pivots, bulky setup mons and semiroom, all things Whimsicott struggles against. Priority Tailwind just isn't that valuable and Whimsicott faces Tornadus as competition and rarely fits on teams.

Aqua Jet · Mar 6, 2021

Paraplegic said:
Pelipper

Just a nitpick, but that isn't Pelipper.

Jrenner · Mar 15, 2021

YoBuddy said:
Tapu Koko 3 -> 4

Electrics are having a pretty tough time in DLC2 SS and Koko is no exception. It's difficult to justify using it over the other Electrics. Zeraora has more speed, more bulk and access to Fake Out, Knock Off, Coaching and Snarl. Zapdos is stronger offensively, especially on rain, and has Tailwind, better bulk and is able to make use of Roost. Terrain control is nice but nowhere near as necessary as it was in SM and offensively Koko struggles to fire off terrain boosted attacks with Rillaboom at ~45% usage.

Chansey, Hippowdon, Milotic, Naganadel, Scrafty, Stakataka and Terrakion 5 -> UR

To my knowledge these mons have had essentially zero usage and have little success when someone decides to use them.

Sylveon 5 -> UR

Sylveon has at least had one or two decent games so far but not enough to deserve to be ranked. It's really hard to justify using the Calm Mind set over Tapu Fini, especially considering Sylveon loses to the main grasses in the meta anyway.

Hatterene and Indeedee-F 5 -> UR

Fullroom is generally considered a matchup fish at the best of times, but what matchup does Fullroom, and by extension Hatterene, actually win? The usage stats are dominated by bulky pivots and with Porygon2 semiroom builds rising in popularity the meta is going to be even better prepared to deal with Trick Room. Indeedee might be able to stay tier 5 but it faces stiff competition from the likes of Blastoise and Amoongus as a support mon and is very rarely used over either of them.

Ninetales-K, Venusaur and Torkoal 5 -> UR

Sun has barely been sighted since Crown tundra dropped. With Tapu Fini widely regarded as the most mon in the tier sleep spam becomes much more difficult and the increase in power across the board and abundant Fake Out users prevent Sun from being able to run over teams like it did in previous metas. Torkoal actually has had some usage in Winter Seasonal so I could see it potentially staying.

Dracovish, Tyranitar, Excadrill 5 -> UR

Sand is probably one of the better archetypes in rank 5 right now but it's still worth looking at dropping it to UR. Tyranitar itself isn't completely awful as far as weather setters go but the sand abusers just leave a lot to be desired right now. Sand Rush Dracovish really struggles to deal the damage that got people hyped about it a year ago. Choice Band Sand Rush Dracovish deals only slightly more damage than Urshifu-R but comes at the cost of requiring a potentially unviable partner to run alongside it, losing out on Fighting STAB, Aqua Jet, U-Turn and breaking through Protect. Most players can't justify using Tyranitar and Dracovish over Urshifu-R and Mew/Tailwind Kartana/Tornadus etc. Excadrill struggles to break through many of the metagame's bulky mons and stacks weaknesses with Tyranitar that are relatively common in the current meta.

Whimsicott 5 -> UR

The meta is full of Fake Out, bulky pivots, bulky setup mons and semiroom, all things Whimsicott struggles against. Priority Tailwind just isn't that valuable and Whimsicott faces Tornadus as competition and rarely fits on teams.

I've actually had quite a bit of success high latter with adrenaline orb milo recently. Intimidate is extremely common, and after an adrenaline orb boost milo is likely to outspeed and ohko the 2 most common intimate threats, lando-t and incin. Not saying it's a great mon but it definatly has a place in the meta! Unfortunately I haven't really saved any replays but I'll start saving a few I can add later!

Nido-Rus · Mar 22, 2021

Now that DPL regular season is out of the way, here are a bunch of noms about my opinions on meta changes so far-

First of all, I'm not sure if this is the best implementation but I think it might be worthwhile to rename Tier 2 into 1.5, and shift everything else up a tier. While tier 1 has great mons, I don't feel like they're nearly as far above tier 2 as stuff like Mega Metagross or Fini had been in the past.

Some of these I feel are pretty straightforward transitions, so I haven't mentioned much for them. I've provided a bit of context for some of the more biased/important noms

Tier 1->2
:tapu fini:

Tapu Fini
Has been getting less common over the course of DPL weeks. Still a solid threat, but nothing close to its widespread influence in SM.

Tier 2->3:
:mew:

Mew
- A bit torn on this one. Still a great mon but I feel like it's a bit too passive in current meta compared to other Tier 2 staples.
:nihilego:

Nihilego

Spectrier

Tier 3->2:
:blastoise:

Blastoise
- Great mon, very scary support for stuff like Kyub or Dragapult. Still great with spectrier/nihilego.
:dragapult:

Dragapult
- DD set is great, specs and LO have been seeing a resurgence
:porygon2:

Porygon2
- P2 semiroom and bulky p2 offense have been very good lately. Switches into and tanks lot of things and either sets up stage control with TR or the threat of toxic.
:zeraora:

Zeraora
- Solid support, fastest relevant mon that hits stuff hard. Coaching has been a fun new gimmick, but also performs well as fast fake out pivot

Tier 3->4
:Tapu Koko:

Tapu Koko (Probably straight to 5 here)
With terrain nerf and HP Ice gone, there are too many mons rn that can switch in safely and not much that koko is good against. Support set is also hard to justify with sky drop gone
:tsareena:

Tsareena
Not bad but personally don't think it's enough of a threat in current meta. Fake out prevention isn't as big as it was pre-crown tundra.
:Zapdos:

Zapdos?
Probably Tier 3 in terms of rain, tier 4 otherwise. Seed zap might be interesting to explore again but for now I think tier 4 is justifiable.

Tier 4->3
:Metagross:

Metagross
Great mon, fits well on bulky balance teams. Switches into a lot of stuff, donks with steel roller, and provides general good support with options like toxic and SR.
:Volcarona:

Volcarona
Not as sure on this one anymore, but it was seeing a rise a while back with blastoise (shrop pult/volcarona -esque teams). Not as common in later weeks but still a threat to consider.
:necrozma:

Necrozma
Seeing a lot of popularity near the end of DPL with expanding force psychic terrain teams, especially with power herb meteor beam. Particularly threatening because of its bulk combined with strong expanding force.

Tier 4->5
:aegislash:

Aegislash
Probably not terrible but never seen
:suicune:

Suicune
Also probably not terrible but never seen

Tier 5->4
:scrafty:

Scrafty
Personal bias here, but I think scrafty is decent in current meta. Knock/CC are nice stabs to have rn, and it switches into a good chunk of mons pretty well
:zapdos-galar:

Zapdos-G
Not sure about this nom, it's been seeing a bit of use as a scarfer but I'm not sure if it's enough to justify rise to 4. Felt I should mention it in any case

Tier 5-> UR
A whole lot could be purged, should be worth looking at all of tier 5 again with a low tier sweep. As it stands, half of tier 4 and almost all of tier 5 aren't relevant options to consider in current meta.

Actuarily · Apr 3, 2021

4->2

Metagross matches up well with an overwhelming portion of the metagame, and many of its biggest threats aren’t as popular right now. Not running a mega stone has freed it up to run a couple of sets such as shuca/occa berry, but its best set is probably assault vest where it becomes an absolute tank that can’t be intimidated. The addition of steel roller has give it a nuke that can be fired almost anytime with the prevalence of terrains.

Matchups: Metagross is one of the best Pokémon (Escavalier TBD) to bring against the expanding force teams that are very common right now, with its ability to easily take an e-force, and to steel roller the terrain away. It also plays extremely well against semi-room teams due to its ability to take hits and eat up TR turns. Alongside this it’s the best counter to top tier threats like Kyu-b and Diancie, while taking advantage of other popular Pokémon like Rillaboom and Fini.

The ghosts in the tier don’t really counter it:
252 SpA Life Orb Spectrier Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Metagross: 265-315 (73 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Metagross: 236-282 (65 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And as long as a Terrain is active it can ko them right back.
252+ Atk Metagross Steel Roller (130 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Spectrier: 363-427 (106.4 - 125.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Metagross Steel Roller (130 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 304-358 (95.8 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

It even eats a heat wave from Volcanion/heatran pretty well and can threaten back with stomping tantrum (I’ll admit it doesn’t want to see a full hp Eruption):

252+ SpA Volcanion Heat Wave vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Metagross: 186-218 (51.2 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It can even stay on the field vs band zygarde and threaten to ice punch (... as long as it’s running ice punch):

252+ Atk Choice Band Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 240-284 (66.1 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Metagross Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 316-372 (88.5 - 104.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

Replays: Its value has been proven recently in DPL

Paraplegic Vs. London13:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doublesou-1306062268

Shrop Vs. Tenzai:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doublesou-1310683498

Downsides: Metagross really wants to run all five of Iron Head/Steel Roller/Ice Punch/Stomping Tantrum/Zen Headbutt, and can only choose 4.
It also gets destroyed by mono-fire.

Overall, it’s a hard hitting tank that counters some of the metas top threats, and at the very least it almost always does 150%+ of its health in damage to the opponent.

fespy · Apr 3, 2021

Araquanid UR -> 5
Webs are good, especially in a meta without many good twind setters. Webs enable so many hard-hitting mid speed mons like zyg and shifu to shine.
Shadow's Week 3 game: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doublesou-1295759863
Shadow's Week 4 game: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doublesou-1300778868

:zeraora:

Zeraora 3 -> 2 (echoing Nido on this one)
Fast fake out is super good, strong offensive coverage, good support moves like taunt and snarl (and coaching?), the only mon that can outspeed and threaten pult

emma · Apr 3, 2021

Heroes have been eliminated from DPL, so here are my VR nominations. I agree with most things in Nido-Rus's nominations here. All DPL stats are for the regular season only.

Drops

Tapu Fini (Tier 1 --> Tier 2)
12 DPL Uses (20%) / 13th in Usage
Recent metagame shifts have not been kind to it. Does not fit well on most Porygon2 structures (usually carry Volcanion but there is that solid Kyub / Fini / P2 team that Z Strats made), Tapu Lele teams (naturally), or even Set-Up Offense (usually carry Rillaboom + Kartana to nuke Fini). Generally works best on Zygarde + Mew teams, which are not that great at the moment (will get to that later). Calm Mind is no longer the strongest win condition with Terrain Control + Toxic, Rillaboom + Kartana, and Amoonguss everywhere.

Mew & Zygarde (Tier 2 --> Tier 3)
13 DPL Uses (21.67%) / 11th in Usage [Mew]
10 DPL Uses (16.67%) / 17th in Usage [Zygarde]
Mew + Zygarde, and Tailwind Offense as a whole, is out. It's a rough matchup into the surging Tapu Lele + Amoonguss structures (as well as the everpresent Porygon2 SemiRoom teams) and faces competition from Set-Up Spam as an offensive playstyle. Zygarde gets dunked on Kyurem-Black and Tapu Fini, does little damage into Rillaboom, and folds into other forms of Speed Control. Mew faces competition from other Tailwind setters such as the surging Kartana and Zapdos, as well as other forms of speed control such as Icy Wind Kyurem-Black. Mew and Zygarde are the backbone on one of the weakest playstyles at the moment and should be reflected in a drop in the Viability Rankings.

Incineroar (Tier 2 --> Tier 3)
11 DPL Uses (18.33%) / 15th in Usage
Incineroar is longer the premier Fire-type of the format, and faces competition from Volcanion, Heatran and even Volcarona at times. It fits best on Tailwind Offense archetypes which aren't very strong in the current metagame (see above). Intimidate also isn't at its best, Kartana and Urshifu crit through it while Diancie and Dragon Dance Dragapult ignore it, and other physical threats such as Zygarde are trending down. Acting as a reliable Ghost-resist is also less important as Spectrier is nowhere to be seen anymore. Fake Out / Parting Shot / Knock Off / Fire STAB into the very common grasses still make it a solid Pokemon, but it's no longer top tier worthy. This one I am slightly on the fence about so I would like to see what other people think, but I believe it should drop.

Nihilego (Tier 2 --> Tier 3)
7 DPL Uses (11.67%) / 21st in Usage
Amoonguss, Urshifu, and Kartana are all very high in usage which match up well into it. Zygarde and Genesect are also above it in usage which are excellent checks. Even Rillaboom can take a +1 Sludge Bomb and OHKO back with Wood Hammer, or threaten the KO with Grassy Glide with ~20-25% chip. It can sometimes be dead weight on the field when you lose momentum or at a disadvantage positioning wise. Speed Control is also a major issue; if Nihilego isn't one of the fastest things on the field it can't do its job very well. It also only gets one shot to get to +1 with Meteor Beam and hopefully snowball to a win.

Spectrier (Tier 2 --> Tier 4)
5 DPL Uses (8.33%) / 23rd in Usage
Spectrier was incredibly good at the beginning of Invitationals but has fallen off extremely hard since. People figured out HorseToise archetypes struggle into Porygon2 SemiRoom structures, which people began spamming and are still very strong in the current metagame. Zeraora's rise (5th in usage) also contributed to Spectrier's downfall, as it's something that naturally outspeed, donks it with Knock Off, and can Plasma Fists Blastoise or even Electroweb through Follow Me. The two most common Pokemon being bulky Assault Vest users isn't helpful either. This Pokemon isn't used at all and it should be an easy drop.

Cresselia (Tier 3 --> Tier 4)
2 DPL Uses (3.33%) / 30th in Usage
Despite personally getting dunked on, I don't think Cresselia is that great. Toxic is on almost every team (or some sort of Cresselia tech such as Whirlwind Zapdos or Roar Blastoise) which turns it from a strong win condition to playing 5v6. Toxic is also really good into Porygon2, Kyurem-Black, Zapdos, etc. so it's not exclusively a Cresselia thing. It can sometimes win games on its own when the opponent isn't prepared, but that isn't common. Even alongside Heal Bell Mew it only went 1-1 in DPL, and easily could have been 0-2 if I killed the Mew when I got the chance. It deserves a ton of respect in the teambuilder and should still be ranked, but I think it needs to move down.

Tsareena (Tier 3 --> Tier 4)
4 DPL Uses (6.65%) / 25th in Usage
Pretty heavily outclassed by Rillaboom and Amoonguss. Would rather have one of the them over Tsareena on most of my teams. Tapu Lele also blocks priority but lets you run Amoonguss as well. Works best on aggressive HO builds that aren't already using Tapu Lele which aren't very common at the moment. I think Urshifu / Nihilego / Tsareena is pretty cool, but overall it deserves to drop in the VR.

Tapu Koko (Tier 3 --> UR)
1 DPL Use (1.67%) / 36th in Usage
Tapu Koko is a bad Pokemon. It's electric typing is a hinderance into Kyurem-Black and Grass-types. Dazzing Gleam hits Kyurem-Black like a wet noodle. Terrain is so common that it rarely get its STAB attacks boosted. Zeraora is a much better fast Electric because it's better Speed Tier, access to Fake Out (as well as support moves such as Knock Off and Coaching) and actually does damage to opposing Pokemon. Tapu Koko is bad and is not used; please UR it.

YoBuddy put it pretty well here on why most of these Pokemon should be UR. They all saw zero (minimal, if any) usage during DPL and we don't need to dedicate an entire tier to a bunch of bad Pokemon. #NukeTier5

Rises

Rillaboom (Tier 2 --> Tier 1)
31 DPL Uses (51.67%) / 1st in Usage
Most splashable Pokemon in the tier. Great on Porygon2 Semiroom and Set-up + Grass Spam Offense. Fake Out + U-Turn makes it an excellent pivot. Good bulk with Assault Vest and hits hard in Grassy Terrain and even gets priority. Last slot can be tailored to your team. Terrain control is mandatory in my opinion. Good at slowing down Tapu Lele teams (but shouldn't be your only check). On >50% of DPL teams. Not a fan of the rise of Amoonguss, but easily deserves Tier 1 in my mind.

Blastoise (Tier 3 --> Tier 2)
10 DPL Uses (16.67%) / 17th in Usage
Blastoise is the best enabler of set-up in the tier. Fake Out + Follow Me + Flip Turn is an incredible arsenal of tools which makes sure it's never useless when on the field. It's typically seen alongside Dragapult or Volcarona as well as Rillaboom and Kartana, and these set-up teams have even added their own SemiRoom option (think: Diancie + Heatran) to better matchup into opposing SemiRoom teams. Blastoise's 4th moveslot is also a very cool tech -- Toxic is great for cripping Kyurem-Black and beating Cresselia, Roar prevents Trick Room and is safer against Cresselia with Heal Bell Support, Icy Wind is solid speed control, while Helping Hand can secure important KOs. Blastoise is better than Pokemon such as Mew, Zygarde, and even Incineroar and should have its rank changed to reflect that.

Porygon2 (Tier 3 --> Tier 2)
14 DPL Uses (23.33%) / 9th in Usage
Porygon2 is incredibly good. It's the most reliable Trick Room setter and acts as a strong win condition (besides Urshifu, people's checks are typically Toxic and/or Knock Off). My favorite Porygon2 moment is during Qwello Lee vs. Tenzai from Week 1 of DPL, where Porygon2 enters the field Turn 1, and does not die the entire match. Ice Beam + Thunderbolt / Toxic is really good coverage and means it's usually always doing something productive while on the field. I think Tapu Lele + Amoonguss structures that are on the rise match up well into it, but it's still clearly top tier material.

Urshifu (Tier 3 --> Tier 2)
17 DPL Uses (28.33%) / 3rd in Usage
Great Pokemon. One of the few reliable Porygon2 and Kyurem-Black killers. Pairs extremely well with Tapu Lele (and therefore also things like Amoonguss, Necrozma, etc.). Benefits from Tapu Fini's decline in usage. Crits through Intimidate and well as any Defense boosts Diancie gets. Ignoring Protect is always epic.

Zeraora (Tier 3 --> Tier 2)
16 DPL Uses (26.67%) / 5th in Usage
Nido-Rus, fespy, and zeefable all covered it well in the three previous posts.

Necrozma (Tier 4 --> Tier 3)
7 DPL Uses (11.67%) / 21st in Usage
Gamer Necrozma. Expanding Force in Psychic Terrain is incredibly difficult to switch in to, especially if you can get to +1 by crippling would be checks such as Heatran or Incineroar with Meteor Beam. People's Psychic resists are frail Kartana, -SpD Genesect, Heatran, and changing Psychic Terrain. Heatran drops to +1 Beam or Earth Power, while you can leverage your Tapu Lele for Terrain Control. The most popular Necrozma team is currently 6-0 in tournament play, and it deserves to rise.

Metagross (Tier 4 --> Tier 3)
4 DPL Uses (6.67%) / 25th in Usage
The_Bandit did a pretty good job of explaining why Metagross should rise here. Really good into Psychic Terrain Spam, and matches up really well into top threats like Rillaboom and Kyurem-Black. Spectrier sees minimal usage so the only Ghost-type you are really fearing is Dragapult. Occa / Shuca Berry are great to lure Grounds and Fires respectively. It even 1v1'd a Substitute Volcanion here. I don't think it is quite Tier 2 material yet however. Still not a strong matchup into Volcanion / Heatran / Zygarde / Landorus-T even with the corresponding resist berry (which can only be used once), and suffers from not having enough item/move slots to run everything it wants to. Steel Roller / Iron Head / Bullet Punch / ZHB / Ice Punch / Toxic / Stealth Rock / Occa Berry / Shuca Berry / Assault Vest / etc. all at the same time and obviously can't, which even came into play during DPL Finals. Overall, Actuarily made a really good post and I agree with most of it; I just don't think its quite Tier 4 material yet (which it very well could be soon). Also wouldn't be super duper opposed if it gets voted into Tier 2, but I think Tier 3 is better for now.

Zapdos
10 DPL Uses (16.67%) / 17th in Usage
Not actually a nomination up, but I saw Nido-Rus and zeefable nominate it down so I wanted to defend Zapdos. It's one of the most reliable Tailwind setters and matches up well into Rillaboom / Amoonguss / Kartana / Tapu Fini / Volcanion / Genesect / Urshifu. It gets you momentum with Volt Switch and lets you bring in one of your threats in Tailwind and ignore hazards with HDB, or it sits on the field forever and doesn't die with Roost and Psychic Seed. Both Max Speed and bulkier sets are solid Tailwind setters, and it's even nice on Rain as an offensive attacker. I firmly believe Zapdos should stay where it is on the VR.

Diancie
14 DPL Uses (23.33%) / 9th in Usage
Also heavily disagree with nominating Diancie down. Don't think it competes with Porygon2 at all since the two work extremely well together. I'm a big fan of Porygon2 / Diancie / Volcanion cores (just make sure one of them is running Safety Goggles) specifically. Extremely scary in Trick Room and not hard to get a potential Weakness Policy activated with Rillaboom / Tapu Fini / etc. being very common Pokemon. After Rillaboom and Kartana (which both lose to Volcanion), Rock resists are Urshifu (weak to Moonblast), Zygarde (weak to Moonblast), Nihilego (2HKO'd by Diamond Storm), and Genesect (can't Protect, will be slowest Pokemon in Trick Room). Definitely is not hurt by Porygon2 being really good, it benefits if anything. Deserves to stay in Tier 2.

Tier 1 (2)

Tier 2 (11)

Tier 3 (10)

Tier 4 (15)

Note: Volcarona and Heatran might deserves to rise up a tier, but I'm not 100% sold yet. Porygon2, Kartana, and Amoonguss would be next in line to move up to Tier 1 but I don't think any of them are there yet. Pokemon like Salamence / Kommo-o / Persian-Alola might deserve to be ranked but I haven't really used them.

I'll also quickly explain some of the Tier 4 / Tier 5 Pokemon I decided to keep around. These are all pretty niche options, but there is a reason they are in the lowest tier.

Araquinad: Other people mostly covered it. 1 2

Escavalier: Good Pokemon. Shreds Tapu Lele + Amoonguss strucutures (can't get Spored or Redirected under Trick Room, resists Tapu Lele's + Necrozma's attacks) which is the team to beat right now. Also matches well into Double Grass cores. Can bait Fire-types with Substitute + Drill Run or even act as a win condition with Swords Dance. Went 0-2 in DPL, but record easily could have been different if Tenzai didn't sack Volcanion Turn 1 or Tony killed Zapdos when he had the chance. Would easily use Escavalier over a ton of currently ranked Pokemon. Read SMB's post about it here. 1 2

Indeedee-Female: An alternative to Tapu Lele. Psychic Terrain is good because it enables good Pokemon like Amoonguss and Necrozma and blocks priority. Indeedee-Female can also Helping Hand and Follow Me which Tapu Lele can't do, and some saw usage in DPL. 5 uses in DPL.

Landorus: Life Orb + Sheer Force is really strong. Sludge Bomb is a great coverage move for Rillaboom and Tapu Fini. Pretty hard to switch into especially if Stealth Rocks are up for Pokemon like Kyurem-Black. Can find plenty of opportunities to Substitute. Landorus-T is no longer a required Pokemon which lets you run this more freely. 2 uses in DPL.

Naganadel: 121 Base Speed Tailwind. Dragon + Poison coverage hits everything besides Steels, and you can even run Flamethrower to nuke Kartana. Toxic Spikes is also a neat option. Choice Scarf is a viable set. It probably doesn't deserved to be ranked because it has zero usage but I like it :(

Scrafty: Fake Out + Intimidate + Knock Off. Trades Stealth Rocks and U-Turn for better matchup into Kyurem-Black and Porygon2 when compared to Ladorus-T. Has a niche over Incineroar when run with other Fire-types (such as a backbone of a Volcarona / Blastoise / Grass Spam team). Super Fang is also pretty interesting. 3 uses in DPL.

Tyranitar: One of the few Psychic immunities in the tier. Sets Rocks, Ice Beams Landorus-T & Zygarde, Rock STAB for fires, can phase sweepers and Trick Room setters with Dragon Tail, and boosts Special Defense for itself and even Diancie. Pretty hard to kill with Assault Vest + Sand. 6-1 since Top 8 of Seasonals.

AuraRayquaza · Apr 10, 2021

A quick one before the slate gets done but Kommo-o to Tier 5.

This mon definitely deserves to be ranked on its ability to abuse rillaboom to set up and having a demonic quiver dance. Its really good into a lot of top mons atm such as kartana zeraora rillaboom and all fires. Once it gets the clangorous soul off it becomes a great option for basically all of the format outside of fini and av kyub. You don't even need to set up a clangorous soul a lot of the time, flamethrower and a clanging scales that gives kommo +1 is great for catching stuff like zygarde and genesect out. It has a few great abilities, but my personal favourite is bulletproof because you get to wall nihilego and spectrier totally, just increasing the list of mons that kommo can set up on. Even the body press iron defense set isnt bad because you get to run max speed and have a far better mu into stuff like diancie/av kyub/urshifu, while keeping the list of mons you can set up on large. I think the fact that it isnt immediately good into fini or kyurem is a big hit to it but its definitely viable. The replays are from ssnl, i used kommo a lot there ._.

Just attacking: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doublesou-1295942046
Clangorous gaming: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doublesou-1261674757-dqbm3o23sysi51x93lgwiheic2ra1hgpw
Body press: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doublesou-1303595006

Platinum God n1n1 · Apr 10, 2021

Salamence --> tier 5

This mon is a good switch in to stuff like Kart + Zygrade and other grasses which are so common. Its a great bulky TW setter and Intimate. Has a very strong winning record in seasonals, topped the ladder, and has been very popular with top DLTXS players so far. Here is a link to a bunch of ssnl replays

Resource SS Doubles OU Viability Rankings v.2

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