Metagame SS Monotype Metagame Discussion [Isle of Armor]

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Obviously me being super busy caused me to bit late on the discussion of dynamax train since it's already been banned and the discussion thread was locked, but ive been given the ok to talk about it here so that's what I'll do.

Cutting to the chase I think it should NOT have been banned yet and ill elaborate further in this post.

One of the big arguments against dynamax was that it was unpredictable. Honestly I don't agree with this for a couple reasons. The main one being that in all honesty, it really isn't unpredictable or random at all. Dynamax is a mechanic that heavily rewards thoughtful play and heavily punishes clicking. When dynamax is used the vast majority of the time it has obvious tells that let you know if it will/won't be used. It's much much more like educated predictions opposed to the 50/50 people are saying it is. Every single turn you think about things like "what are the chances they make a double this turn?" "Should I take the chip to get rocks or should I just kill his mon" "What's his gameplan?" Dynamax falls into that same vein of questions. "What mon would he want to dynamax against me?" "What does he gain by dynamaxing here?" "How can I prevent him from making the best of his dynamax?" in addition to others. Having to consistently think about things like that is difficult and requires focus, but that's a good thing. You want the people that are willing to put more focus and effort in to be rewarded.

Another argument is that it's far too good for the meta, and honestly I don't think that this is fair. To argue against this first we have to know what being "too good for the meta" actually means. In my opinion it's something that if you aren't using you are put into an immediate disadvantage and/or something that requires you to use sets that are otherwise bad to stop it. The first one obviously makes no sense because everyone has dynamax there isn't just "not using it". It actually applies to z moves and megas from gen 7 more because you could make a team without z moves or megas but doing so put you at an immediate disadvantage but I digress. The main one is the second one. Honestly I don't believe that dynamax forces you to use trash sets, just sets that are different. Mons like protect leech ferrothorn or bunker pex are fantastic this gen. Not only are these sets that you could justify using regardless, they also go a long way in containing dynamax. As well as mons like encore whims, foul play heavy duty boots mandi, etc. These mons are each very good against the vast majority of dynamax set ups and would probably be ran anyways on some or most teams of their type. Does it restrict teambuilding in some way? Of course. Does it restrict it to the point that it's broken? I would argue no.

That flows into the argument that it invalidates certain types or makes other types broken. Once again I would disagree. Obviously dynamax is extremely good against most types and insane against a select few but that doesn't matter because monotype was never about equalization of the types. We're talking about complete invalidation. Does dynamax really make it so that some types are just unusable? I would say no. If we look at a type like fighting which is generally considered to be one of the worst types in the meta right now, even that type isn't completely invalidated by moves like max airstream running everywhere. Physically defensive colbalion with thunder wave (which is another set that probably would've gotten some use anyways since it gets rocks and is a good switchin for most things for fighting regardless) goes a long way in containing most max airstream users. Especially if you have your own dynamax. You could make the argument that relying on a dynamax to beat a dynamax shows that it's more broken but A. Colbalion isn't really relying on it since it can help regardless and B. Dynamax containing itself is what keeps it from actually being broken in my opinion. <- applies after colbalion is released but not currently. The best way for it to deal with it pre colbalion is offensively. HO fighting is obviously the only way to build it so potentially dynamaxing terrakion while surrounding it with mons that make it more difficult for gyarados to set up is the best way to handle it pre colbalion release. Oviously this is only one situation but u can't go through every bad type and their way to beat all the popular dynamaxers at least not in this post. The only type that you could argue is invalidated now is a type like rock, but that type is invalidated anyways by that fact that it's a mono grounded, no water immune type in a meta where water and ground are 2 of the best types.

The last argument that I'll get into is the argument that it's broken because of the fact that when you dynamax you get your choice broken. This is the one that I agree with the most but im not sure that I can say that makes it bannable. Let's look at the popular pex vs excadrill example. You go into pex from gyarados on the excas scarf rock slide. According to the example there's a 50/50 now of whether he'll dynamax quake this turn or not and whether you should dynamax yourself or switch. There is a lot wrong with this example. For starters I would say that non bunker pex is an outdated pex, and that bunker pex makes it a lot easier because clicking rock slide again on the bunker is a much harder play to make than switching out or dynamaxing. Secondly, you can't present a Pokemon example in this way because it just doesn't work. There is so much that goes into each click in a game that "you are in with pex vs a locked in scarf drill" just isn't enough. It's just not a big enough picture to get an accurate grasp on the situation and it makes it look like whether you dmax or switch or scald/recover is just a 50/50 when in reality it never is.

To further clarify my personal stance on the matter: I personally don't think that it's a broken mechanic just that we haven't been given enough time to at adapt and settle into a meta. Therefore I disagree with the ban at this time.

Thanks for reading this shit took way too long to type.
 
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iLlama

Nothing personal, I protect my people
A. Colbalion isn't really relying on it since it can help regardless...
...HO fighting is obviously the only way to build it so potentially dynamaxing terrakion while surrounding it with mons that make it more difficult for gyarados to set up is the best way to handle it pre colbalion release.
 
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Ok, now where to start..

One of the big arguments against dynamax was that it was unpredictable. Honestly I don't agree with this for a couple reasons. The main one being that in all honesty, it really isn't unpredictable or random at all. Dynamax is a mechanic that heavily rewards thoughtful play and heavily punishes clicking. When dynamax is used the vast majority of the time it has obvious tells that let you know if it will/won't be used. It's much much more like educated predictions opposed to the 50/50 people are saying it is.
While I get your point, just because there is usually an optimal pokemon to dynamax (like a pokemon with fire coverage vs a steel team) it is not as straightforward as you make it out to be. The optimal pokemon to dynamax is ALWAYS dependent on the situation of that current battle. It is dependent on which pokemon is able to set-up relatively safely, and on top of that it is dependent on the user determining if they even want to dynamax that turn. Let's take a look at flying teams. Now let's say I safely got togekiss to use nasty plot vs your team, now I can easily dynamax and go for that sweep, or I could just as easily not, and bait you into thinking I will, and just dynamax with any of my other abusers. This short term thinking is not healthy, where the game gets decided on a few turns. The offensive dynamax abuser has the advantage most of the time.

Honestly I don't believe that dynamax forces you to use trash sets, just sets that are different. Mons like protect leech ferrothorn or bunker pex are fantastic this gen. Not only are these sets that you could justify using regardless, they also go a long way in containing dynamax. As well as mons like encore whims, foul play heavy duty boots mandi, etc. These mons are each very good against the vast majority of dynamax set ups and would probably be ran anyways on some or most teams of their type. Does it restrict teambuilding in some way? Of course. Does it restrict it to the point that it's broken? I would argue no.
Fair point, I don't think it forces you to use trash sets either, just different ones. But that doesn't mean it makes it balanced. Eien has previously pointed out how you can tailor some mons to beat specific mu's and the opponent can't do a single thing about it. Like an agility dragapult with solarbeam, thunderbolt and hydropump. Now how do you expect water/ground teams to handle pokemon like these, that can run drawback free moves that do not need to charge, and are unconventional coverage? What if the ideal pokemon to dynamax in your eyes was a different pokemon, but having this specific set means that this pokemon is the best to dynamax. Now you can argue I should have scouted, but this type of "cheese" strat applies to more than just dragapult and many pokemon can run gimmicky sets like this with actual viability. Also your point about whimsicott using encore is fair, however if you dynamax you can get past encore lock. Just like w/ z-moves, except now u get 3 turns being out of encore and by the time you finish your dynamax, encore wears off. And your point about mandibuzz being a good check to dynamax.....in what way? Just because its a good wall? It easily gets 2hk0d by most physical dynamax pokemon that its supposed to check, and cannot KO them back with foul play because of the hp boost. And if you dynamax mandibuzz, you cannot use roost and foul play for three turns, crippling your own wall.

I would say no. If we look at a type like fighting which is generally considered to be one of the worst types in the meta right now, even that type isn't completely invalidated by moves like max airstream running everywhere. Physically defensive colbalion with thunder wave (which is another set that probably would've gotten some use anyways since it gets rocks and is a good switchin for most things for fighting regardless) goes a long way in containing most max airstream users. Especially if you have your own dynamax. You could make the argument that relying on a dynamax to beat a dynamax shows that it's more broken but A. Colbalion isn't really relying on it since it can help regardless and B. Dynamax containing itself is what keeps it from actually being broken in my opinion. <- applies after colbalion is released but not currently. The best way for it to deal with it pre colbalion is offensively. HO fighting is obviously the only way to build it so potentially dynamaxing terrakion while surrounding it with mons that make it more difficult for gyarados to set up is the best way to handle it pre colbalion release. Oviously this is only one situation but u can't go through every bad type and their way to beat all the popular dynamaxers at least not in this post. The only type that you could argue is invalidated now is a type like rock, but that type is invalidated anyways by that fact that it's a mono grounded, no water immune type in a meta where water and ground are 2 of the best types.
Yes, there may be niche ways to deal with certain threats, doesnt make it competitive in any way though. As for coballion, it is implying it's at full health firstly, which is a tall order considering its the only stealth rock setter aside from kommo. However even then ur forgetting things like max flare and max mindstorm, both of which setup weather or terrain to make the next move stronger. If your way to check togekiss was to live a max airstream, now it cant live a max flare under the sun, or even without the sun it has a chance to die. And if you dynamax your coballion, you can no longer use twave, and must now kill with max steelspike, which mind you does not kill. Theres an abundance of ways to abuse max moves that allow for a sweep. Like polteageist using max mindstorm after a shell smash to prevent priority like sucker punch from affecting it, while also boosting the next psychic attack. So meanwhile you may have a great ghost check, you must also have a psychic check now, that can live a terrain boosted attack.

The last argument that I'll get into is the argument that it's broken because of the fact that when you dynamax you get your choice broken. This is the one that I agree with the most but im not sure that I can say that makes it bannable. Let's look at the popular pex vs excadrill example. You go into pex from gyarados on the excas scarf rock slide. According to the example there's a 50/50 now of whether he'll dynamax quake this turn or not and whether you should dynamax yourself or switch. There is a lot wrong with this example. For starters I would say that non bunker pex is an outdated pex, and that bunker pex makes it a lot easier because clicking rock slide again on the bunker is a much harder play to make than switching out or dynamaxing. Secondly, you can't present a Pokemon example in this way because it just doesn't work. There is so much that goes into each click in a game that "you are in with pex vs a locked in scarf drill" just isn't enough. It's just not a big enough picture to get an accurate grasp on the situation and it makes it look like whether you dmax or switch or scald/recover is just a 50/50 when in reality it never is.
Ok, then let's look at another example if it isnt convincing enough. A popular choice scarf user is galarian darmanitan. A grass teams most reliable answer is ferrothorn, now the galar darm can just dynamax, break out of the lock, go for flare blitz. You protect you take damage, and the sun goes up, making the next attack stronger and ur fire switchin no longer a switchin. You dynamax, you can only attack or max guard, either way you dont kill it because you cant do enough damage. Let's say the dynamax wears off, the user is now faster again, and depending on whether they were choice locked before, they use the same move, or if they dynmaxed right away, they are free to use any move of their choosing. This is literally just one example, theres countless more. This example was one where you don't even need to think about 50/50s, u just lose because the user can break out of their choice lock and kill you because the max moves allow for the next move to do more damage.

Sorry if some paragraphs seem sloppy, i just kinda wrote inbetween studying, but your points show how you have not played monotype much and a lot of your arguments are stemming from OU or just playing low quality games in monotype. There are way too many restrictions in monotype that there is no defensive play at all. While in OU you can stall out a dynamax by switching from ur ferro to a mandi and so on, in monotype you have no counterplay to moves your entire team is weak to. A lot of the points I said are echoes of the dynamax thread, or the summary of why dynamax was banned in the ban announcement thread.
 
The last argument that I'll get into is the argument that it's broken because of the fact that when you dynamax you get your choice broken. This is the one that I agree with the most but im not sure that I can say that makes it bannable. Let's look at the popular pex vs excadrill example. You go into pex from gyarados on the excas scarf rock slide. According to the example there's a 50/50 now of whether he'll dynamax quake this turn or not and whether you should dynamax yourself or switch. There is a lot wrong with this example. For starters I would say that non bunker pex is an outdated pex, and that bunker pex makes it a lot easier because clicking rock slide again on the bunker is a much harder play to make than switching out or dynamaxing. Secondly, you can't present a Pokemon example in this way because it just doesn't work. There is so much that goes into each click in a game that "you are in with pex vs a locked in scarf drill" just isn't enough. It's just not a big enough picture to get an accurate grasp on the situation and it makes it look like whether you dmax or switch or scald/recover is just a 50/50 when in reality it never is.
This mechanic ALONE makes the Dynamax ban logical. Look no further than the example listed above by Waszap for Choice Scarf Galarian Darmanitan vs Grass. Even if I protect scout with Ferrothorn, and see he went for Icicle Crash, they could Dynamax and kill with Max Flare. If I scout and they click Flare Blitz, I go into Appletun, which takes less than 50% from Flare Blitz, they can Dynamax and kill with Max Hailstorm. The versatility is absurd. It is nearly impossible for me, the Grass player, to make every single read correctly. Even if I do, I likely still lose a mon or two.

As well as mons like encore whims, foul play heavy duty boots mandi, etc. These mons are each very good against the vast majority of dynamax set ups and would probably be ran anyways on some or most teams of their type.
Yeah, uh Encore Whimsicott is cough cough absolute shit against Dynamax set up sweepers. Yes, Whimsicott can stall out their turns with Prankster Substitutes, but that doesn't prevent Max Airstream/Max Ooze etc boosts. Encore could not be reliably used to shut down set up sweepers because they could just Dynamax and thus break the effects of Encore, just like they do for Choice Items. Trust me on this, I have been the victim of this exact scenario many times.

Can we please move on now and talk about the meta post-dynamax? Everybody has said their piece in either this thread or the "Dynamax in Monotype" one, and talking about it more, including this post (hyprocitical of me, I know), is irrelevant because the decision has been unanimously voted on by the council.
 
Hello, next recent bans, I'd like to talk about one Pokemon:

Corviknight
1576764962126.png

When people learned Skarmory won't be part of the 8th Gen, a lot was afraid Steel/Flying types will be deforced by this loss.
Nobody excepted that the new Flying/Steel Pokemon of the 8th Gen would be his equal or even, better.


• Stats and abilities.
1576765051412.png

Corvi gets one of the best bulk in this new meta.
In comparaison with Skarmory, its worse defense is easily compensated with its better HP and Sp.Def.
Skarm was able to only deal (mostly) with physical move, which Corvi easily deals with both.


Pressure/Unnerve/Mirror armor.
With these 3 abilities, only 2 are (obviously) played: Pressure and Mirror Armor.
Mirror Armor bounces back stat-lowering effects, which is good against Intimidate and def drop.
But in my opinion, Pressure is more annoying, as it's really bulky, it can live and win some games with pp war.


• Is Corviknight too good for the 8G meta?

- With the Dynamax ban, the main winner of this is Corviknight. Its loss of +2/3 in speed doesn't seem to affect it too much. Especially when it won't have to face big damage anymore from Dynamaxed Pokemon. Which make it bulkier than before.

- For this topic, I will talk about only one set (the strongest in my opinion): 248HP/248Sp.Def/12Speed.
Taunt/Bulk Up/Roost/Brave Bird. (In Steel type).

- Teammates:
• Excadrill: Electric checks.
• Ferrothorn: Electric checks, huge damage from water type, leech seed user to help Corvi to set up.
• Aegislash: Globally a good sponge to pair with it.

- Like said before, Corvi bulk makes it really hard to kill, I'm going to show some calcs against "top tiers" Pokemon supposed to be good against steel type:
252 SpA Gardevoir Mystical Fire vs. 248 HP / 248 SpD Corviknight: 142-168 (35.5 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Indeedee Mystical Fire vs. 248 HP / 248 SpD Corviknight: 186-220 (46.6 - 55.1%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Duraludon Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 248 SpD Corviknight: 164-194 (41.1 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 248 SpD Corviknight: 264-312 (66.1 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Gengar Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 248 SpD Corviknight: 174-206 (43.6 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Stealth Rock 0 - 0%
252 SpA Life Orb Seismitoad Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 248 SpD Corviknight in Rain: 231-274 (57.8 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Hatterene Mystical Fire vs. 248 HP / 248 SpD Corviknight: 195-231 (48.8 - 57.8%) -- 57.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Heliolisk Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 248 SpD Corviknight: 230-272 (57.6 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Weezing-Galar Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 248 SpD Corviknight: 124-146 (31 - 36.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Clefable Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 248 SpD Corviknight: 134-158 (33.5 - 39.5%) -- 20.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Hydreigon Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 248 SpD Corviknight: 206-244 (51.6 - 61.1%) -- 94.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


What do these calculs show? It shows Corvi deals easily with 80% super efficient moves no-stabbed, offensive or not.
Which with the addition of pressure, gives the win easiliy (except a crit) using Bulk Up when recovery isn't needed.
With 2 Bulk Up, I can say most of time, Corvi wins the game because it can't be revengekilled because of its wonderful bulk.

- People will say "just burn it, just switch to a really good mon against him".
- Scald / WoW part:
Corvi isn't really affected by burn as you can still Bulk Up to 6 if it's needed or you can use Taunt against Will-O-Wisp slower users.

- Good Pokemon to use against Corviknight:
• Special users:
Heliolisk or another good electric sweeper, Dragapult/Gengar/Duraludon Specs, Togekiss/Hydreigon Nasty Plot, Fire Pokemon
But: every specs mons are checked by Exca/Ferro (except Dragapult Fire Blast).
• Physical users:
Crawdaunt/Dracovish/Diggersby/Copperajah/Barskewda (under rain)= every strong physical sweeper able to hit hard and fast.
But these mon aren't able to do something if Corvi used 2 Bulk up.
Dracozolt is THE pokemon able to deal with it.
• others:
Quag unaware/Toxapex Haze/Faster Corviknight/Corsola-Galar/...
All this kind of Pokemon are beaten by Taunt. And allow Corviknight to set up quietly against them.
Ok Scald Toxa will divided your attack by 2, but you can still bulk up. In my opinion, they aren't able to stop it.
Sableye Taunt/WoW/Knock Off would be a good answer however.

• To conclude:
I think I've showed enough about the power of this Pokemon: Huge bulk, able to sweep alone some types,...
I didn't write this topic to ask a ban but to see how do people see Corviknight (Healthy or not) and if they have some strat to defeat this set and I think it's a good subject to talk about.

I've collected a lot of replays to show, but, they were played when Dynamax were still legals. So useless to show.
 
Fire Type

I - Introduction
Hello, for this post, I will talk about one type I'm enjoying to play at the moment, fire type.
The goal of this post isn't to say Fire is good but it's possible to play it.
In this 8th Gen, Fire seems at the first look lost a lot of power, we think to M-Zard Y/X, Volcanion, Volcarona, Heatran, Infernape (Yep, that's a lot).
These loss make Fire weaker than ever in front of Water type. No more Water immunity, and, a stupid rain abuse + Scarf Dracovish make life hard to this type.
But, they won some good things too, especially Cinderace. It will be the Pokemon I've built this mono fire team around.

II - Teambuilding

1) Cinderace
1577634529149.png

Here is my first Pokemon, I wanted to build a HO Fire team without fearing Stealth rocks, so, I picked up it first as it gets one interresting move: Court change (Switches sides of field effects : So, all hazards, screens). It's really good in a meta where screen and SR are presents.
To help it for its job, I choose the item Heavy-Duty Boots (Prevents the effects of traps set on the battlefield.) which allow me to not be hurted by all hazards. The perfect item.
Cinderace gets a wonderfull speed and attack with another great sign move Pyroball: Same damage than Flare Blitz without recoil and 90% accuracy, not that bad.
High Jump Kick is there for coverage and because it 0HKO Tyranitar (252 Atk Cinderace High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 484-572 (120 - 141.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO) and Hydreigon (next SR) (252 Atk Cinderace High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 286-338 (88 - 104%) -- 25% chance to OHKO) 2 big ennemies of our fire type. As these Pokemon are always checked by Mandibuzz, I put for the last move U-Turn to keep the momentum.
Cincerace helps a lot against Snorlax too as this last is most of time played with Thick fat and High Jump Kick do big damage to Snorlax (252 Atk Cinderace High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 152 Def Snorlax: 304-358 (58 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery)

2) Ninetales
1577635328601.png

Saying Fire type, saying Drought. So, I had to choose between Torkoal and Ninetales, as I wanted build a HO fire type, Ninetales was the best choice I had as Torkoal is too passive and makes me lose momentum.
So, to compensate the small Sp.Att to Ninetales and to hit hard without losing a turn with Nasty Plot, I play it as Choice Specs.
Fire Blast to make big damage and to try to make impossible safe switch.
Solar Beam is to help against Ground/Water type (just be sure to not use it when it switch to Pelliper/Hippo).
252 SpA Choice Specs Ninetales Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 176 SpD Hippowdon: 207-244 (49.2 - 58%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Ninetales Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Flygon in Sun: 176-207 (58.4 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Ninetales Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rhyperior in Sun: 237-279 (54.6 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Ground doesn't have really switch-in or it's a mind game with Gastrodon/Seismitoad Solar Beam. And like this u can stop the sandstorm Excadrill threat easier than with Torkoal too.
For last 2 moves, I decided to play Extrasensory to put pressure on Toxapex:
252 SpA Choice Specs Ninetales Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 140-166 (46 - 54.6%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
And on Kommo-O (even if it isn't a big threat like Toxapex). (See the next Pokemon).
And Shadow Ball because Ghost is really strong this gen and Ninetales gets 50% chance to live next one Specs Draco-Meteor Dragapult.

3) Charizard
1577636071161.png

Charizard is a key in my team.
First, it outspeeds Excadrill (as I play it scarf), secondly, with its Hidden Ability Solar Power, It gives extra boost under the sun.
People mainly excepts to face Charizard Specs or a random DD, so, send Excadrill and are surprised to be 0HKOed by it.
FIre Blast is its best move and under Sun makes some holes in opponent teams.
To give you an exemple of the Fire Blast Solar Power power: 252 SpA Solar Power Charizard Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex in Sun: 131-155 (43 - 50.9%) -- 55.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
To help Fire against Dragon Match-Up, I play Dragon Pulse, it looks bad said like this, but fun fact, only ONE dragon is able to tank Dragon Pulse next Stealth Rock damage: Goodra. Every other dragon are 0HKO next SR (Too many calculs to paste, just believe me).
Air Slash is to have a Stabbed flying move and Focus Blast is here to help again against Snorlax, Tyranitar.
252 SpA Charizard Focus Blast vs. 168 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 312-368 (81.4 - 96%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Solar Power Charizard Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 104+ SpD Snorlax in Sun: 264-312 (50.3 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


4) Arcanine
1577636570218.png

Now, I need to help my team with the one priority move I can have and with a good Band Pokemon. So Arcanine will help me to weaken the opponent team.
I play it so banded and with these moves: Flare Blitz, Extrem Speed, Play Rough, Wild Charge.
Play Rough is to help against many Pokemon like Mandibuzz, Dragapult, Hippo,...
252+ Atk Choice Band Arcanine Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 202-238 (47.6 - 56.1%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Arcanine Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 80+ Def Hippowdon: 211-249 (50.2 - 59.2%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Arcanine Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 154-182 (50.6 - 59.8%) -- 81.6% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

It helps against Gastrodon too if the sun is there:
252+ Atk Choice Band Arcanine Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 112 Def Gastrodon in Sun: 254-299 (59.7 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


5) Rotom-Heat
1577636948639.png

To have another ground immunity, I play Rotom-Heat. And to help a little against Water (even if it's mostly an autolose).
I play it Sub/Nasty Plot/Dark Pulse/Thunderbolt.
Its job is to help me against Ghost type, annoy a little Snorlax Rest Talk, ...
It can tank a Scald Toxapex behind its sub during Sunny Day. Which is really usefull to face Toxapex.
It helps against Band/Specs Ground move to win a free sub.
However, I've to work on the EV spread yet.

6) Salazzle
1577637175523.png

Last mon in my team is the only who isn't really offensive but more annoying to face.
I play it for many reason, it's able to Toxic Toxapex which is a big threat to my team, I insist a lot about Toxapex.
It make me wins some Rain turns with its set: Toxic/Protect/Sub/Flamethrower.
It really gets a nice job once it's behind a sub and outspeed 80% of the present meta which make it really usefull.
It allows too to mindgame Bisharp Sucker Punch which is a big threat for my team.

III - Weaknesses of the team
a) Water, especially Rain water.
b) Snorlax
c) Mold Breaker/Sand Rush Excadrill, Dugtrio, Ground in general.
d) Tyranitar-Grimmsnarl Thunder Wave Prankster Core.
e) Gyarados DD.
f) Toxapex.
g) Crawdaunt
h) Ghost type because of Flash Fire Chandelure, Dragapult.

IV - Advantage of this team
Fire team may look trash but it isn't. In a meta where Steel, Fairy, Dark, Water are dominants, it gets some good points to use it.
But like for normal, people need to break out of their habits they had with USUM. It's a new meta, so new strats to think about.
Court Change Cinderace is really fine in a meta where Bug, Water, Fairy, Psychic have Sticky Web.
Fire Offense breaks a lot of cores.
Charizard strat against dragon is really efficient if opponent isn't playing Noivern/Dragapult scarf. Once Goodra weaken enough, it destroys Dragon, which, in comparaison with USUM, was never possible because of great Dragon.

V - Replays
Against Dark: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8monotype-1037546120 & https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8monotype-1037631668
Against Normal: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8monotype-1037543217
Against Poison: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8monotype-1037533326
Against Dragon: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8monotype-1037482412
Against Ground: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8monotype-1037993307

VI - Import
https://pokepast.es/a71d46c702c143e9
Have fun with it.
 
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Ok, so this might be just me being new, but those replays seem really bad. Eg: Against Ground turn 4, he for some reason switches Gastrodon out when it could KO Cinderace and takes no relevant damage from it, depriving you of hazard removal, and switches in Hippo, who dies to a Pyro Ball, literally sacing his rock setter and giving you a free Court Change for no reason. Eg: Turn 10 against Poison he lets his Pex, his only healthy fire resist, get poisoned. Perhaps it's because he didn't know Corrosion was a thing-oh wait he's running the same Salazzle. And then follows a baffling sequence where Pex switches out once for the rest of its existence despite being regenerator even when at 1% and with the possibility of resetting toxic damage AND does not click recover once during its lifespan. I might be new, but I think there's something dodgy about literally leaving Duralodon in to die rather than setting rocks and running, trying to set up on a toxic staller and running Phantom Force on a LO Dracopult.
 
Ok, so this might be just me being new, but those replays seem really bad. Eg: Against Ground turn 4, he for some reason switches Gastrodon out when it could KO Cinderace and takes no relevant damage from it, depriving you of hazard removal, and switches in Hippo, who dies to a Pyro Ball, literally sacing his rock setter and giving you a free Court Change for no reason. Eg: Turn 10 against Poison he lets his Pex, his only healthy fire resist, get poisoned. Perhaps it's because he didn't know Corrosion was a thing-oh wait he's running the same Salazzle. And then follows a baffling sequence where Pex switches out once for the rest of its existence despite being regenerator even when at 1% and with the possibility of resetting toxic damage AND does not click recover once during its lifespan. I might be new, but I think there's something dodgy about literally leaving Duralodon in to die rather than setting rocks and running, trying to set up on a toxic staller and running Phantom Force on a LO Dracopult.
These replays aren't there to show skill opponent but the way the team is working.
As it's pretty hard to find decent people on ladder AND games where there isn't crit or any other form of luck.

I guess the dragon opponent let die Dura as any Fire blast 0HKO it and isn't a safe switch.

But thanks to have pointed that fact and only that, and not games against dark, normal which are pretty decent or anything else about the team or the fire type in general.
 
These replays aren't there to show skill opponent but the way the team is working.
As it's pretty hard to find decent people on ladder AND games where there isn't crit or any other form of luck.

I guess the dragon opponent let die Dura as any Fire blast 0HKO it and isn't a safe switch.

But thanks to have pointed that fact and only that, and not games against dark, normal which are pretty decent or anything else about the team or the fire type in general.
just an fyi, your replays have to show opp skill, otherwise it doesn't prove how good the team is competitively.

so this is isn't a one-liner, as someone who is just returning to competitive pokes since i'm on break from college, what is the top type/archetype to get back into the meta with? Seems like rain water is still super powerful, but with all the new mons/loss of old mons it might be something else now
 
These replays aren't there to show skill opponent but the way the team is working.
As it's pretty hard to find decent people on ladder AND games where there isn't crit or any other form of luck.

I guess the dragon opponent let die Dura as any Fire blast 0HKO it and isn't a safe switch.

But thanks to have pointed that fact and only that, and not games against dark, normal which are pretty decent or anything else about the team or the fire type in general.
Ok, if you want my full opinion: Cinderace is a band-aid for a weak type. While Court Change is a unique move with certain benifits, it can be played around, and as a whole the type gets trashed by all kinds of top-tier mons. Cinderace itself is fairly powerful, but the other 5 teamslots are painful to fill. From what's available, I'd say your team is pretty good, though the mere fact you are having to run a stall Mon on HO speaks volumes. And it you run into a rocker that beats Cinderace, you're in for a bad time with taking hazard damage (Galaran Corsola springs to mind, and Mew forces you to U-Turn or get EQed.) Your Charizard set basically requires the Dragon player to have Hydreigon as their scarf Garm revenge killer and not to have multiple, a reasonable assumption, but all I can see this type doing is losing to Ground (in spite of your efforts, Cinderace just doesn't have the survivability to stop them hazarding and pivoting you to death, not to mention if rocks are on both sides cinderace is dead weight and they are at a huge advantage), Water, Ghost and, less importantly, Poison (A correctly played Pex just demolishes this). Dark you'll be leaning on Cinderace hard, but it's doable. Obvious good steel matchup. Crushes Ice too thanks to 2 good Garm checks. But it just loses to the 3 best types in the game.

Also, yes your other replays are better, but, as pointed out above, posting replays where your opponent gifts you the game undermines your point rather than furthering it. I looked at the replays from bottom up and stopped after 3, assuming the others were as bad. I didn't mean to cherry pick so I apologise for that. Plus the fact I don't rate Normal post-Dmax.
 
Ok, if you want my full opinion: Cinderace is a band-aid for a weak type. While Court Change is a unique move with certain benifits, it can be played around, and as a whole the type gets trashed by all kinds of top-tier mons. Cinderace itself is fairly powerful, but the other 5 teamslots are painful to fill. From what's available, I'd say your team is pretty good, though the mere fact you are having to run a stall Mon on HO speaks volumes. And it you run into a rocker that beats Cinderace, you're in for a bad time with taking hazard damage (Galaran Corsola springs to mind, and Mew forces you to U-Turn or get EQed.) Your Charizard set basically requires the Dragon player to have Hydreigon as their scarf Garm revenge killer and not to have multiple, a reasonable assumption, but all I can see this type doing is losing to Ground (in spite of your efforts, Cinderace just doesn't have the survivability to stop them hazarding and pivoting you to death, not to mention if rocks are on both sides cinderace is dead weight and they are at a huge advantage), Water, Ghost and, less importantly, Poison (A correctly played Pex just demolishes this). Dark you'll be leaning on Cinderace hard, but it's doable. Obvious good steel matchup. Crushes Ice too thanks to 2 good Garm checks. But it just loses to the 3 best types in the game.

Also, yes your other replays are better, but, as pointed out above, posting replays where your opponent gifts you the game undermines your point rather than furthering it. I looked at the replays from bottom up and stopped after 3, assuming the others were as bad. I didn't mean to cherry pick so I apologise for that. Plus the fact I don't rate Normal post-Dmax.
I agree with you Fire type has hard MU against water, ghost (like I already said) and Ground (especially when Dugtrio is played).
However, against Poison, I don't share your opinion, Fire is able to defeat it (even if Toxapex is played well).
I think Salazzle is able to help against this mu + the offensive pressure Fire put. In addition of that, Poison isn't running hazard except Tspikes which is deal by Salazzle and having Levitate Rotom-H + Zard help. The same argument can be done for "a good player can deal with Toxa in Poison".

What are 3 best types for u btw? Because for me, it's Steel, Water, Dark, Fairy and Ghost this gen. So, Fire are always beaten by 2/6 max, which isn't that bad as Water SS 100% loses to Steel Hazard and defensive core.
Now, I've to say I didn't claim Fire type was a good type, I never said that, but it isn't a bad type like Grass and Rock to only name these types.

I wrote this because I think fire can be played despite 3 hard MU (on 10 viables types, it isn't bad like I hear on PS mono chat).

Concerning Poison/Ground replays, I can remove it without issue because of one play to replace it.
 
I agree with you Fire type has hard MU against water, ghost (like I already said) and Ground (especially when Dugtrio is played).
However, against Poison, I don't share your opinion, Fire is able to defeat it (even if Toxapex is played well).
I think Salazzle is able to help against this mu + the offensive pressure Fire put. In addition of that, Poison isn't running hazard except Tspikes which is deal by Salazzle and having Levitate Rotom-H + Zard help. The same argument can be done for "a good player can deal with Toxa in Poison".

What are 3 best types for u btw? Because for me, it's Steel, Water, Dark, Fairy and Ghost this gen. So, Fire are always beaten by 2/6 max, which isn't that bad as Water SS 100% loses to Steel Hazard and defensive core.
Now, I've to say I didn't claim Fire type was a good type, I never said that, but it isn't a bad type like Grass and Rock to only name these types.

I wrote this because I think fire can be played despite 3 hard MU (on 10 viables types, it isn't bad like I hear on PS mono chat).

Concerning Poison/Ground replays, I can remove it without issue because of one play to replace it.
Ironically enough, I rate Ground, Water and Ghost as my top 3. Steel is pretty good, as is Dark, and I have no opinion on Fairy. I agree Fire isnt totally unuseable, but it leans on Cinderace like Ice leans on Garm.
 
Ironically enough, I rate Ground, Water and Ghost as my top 3. Steel is pretty good, as is Dark, and I have no opinion on Fairy. I agree Fire isnt totally unuseable, but it leans on Cinderace like Ice leans on Garm.
I strongly disagree about Ice relying on Darmanitan. Mons like Mamoswine, Cloyster and Frosmoth can hold their weight nicely against other teams, specially with Aurora Veil support from Vanilluxe (which itself is pretty good thanks to Taunt, Freeze Dry and an always accurate Blizzard).

While I agree that Darm is an awesome Mon and is a must on any Ice team atm, it's not like it provides the entire work for it (unlike Cinderace on Fire, which unfortunately is true).
 
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roxie

https://www.youtube.com/@noxiousroxie
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Hiya Everyone! I want to talk about Poison Monotype for [Gen 8 Monotype]:​

Defensive Cores:
Vileplume & Gloom: These Two Grass/Poison Flower Pokemon resist Water and Electric. Having its Grass typing allows it to fend off Ground attacks from Pokemon like Excadrill and Seismitoad. I would say Vileplume is most definitely better than Gloom because Vileplume has access to its ability Effect Spore. Gloom is also usable however with Eviolite.
(Vileplume) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Effect Spore
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 160
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Sleep Powder/Leech Seed/Sludge Bomb
- Growth/Sludge Bomb/Leech Seed
- Strength Sap
252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 135-160 (38.1 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gloom: 102-120 (31.4 - 37%) -- 76.4% chance to 3HKO


Drapion: aka the "orge scorp" Pokemon according to Game-Freaks..is a Poison/Dark Pokemon that plays a role in being immune to Psychic-Type attacks and Prankster Moves because of its Dark-Typing. Having access to status moves such as Toxic Spikes and Toxic benefits Poison because it chips damage and supports Salazzle in Toxic+Substitute stalling. It can be run specially-defensive or offensive and I prefer running Spd+ and full HP EVs to have a better chance against pokemon like Gardevoir and Polteageist. Scarf Drapion is useful for out-speeding Scarfed Pokemon such as Gardevoir and Chandelure.
(Drapion) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Battle Armor
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 160
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab/Substitute/Brick Break
- Toxic Spikes
- Taunt

Drapion @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Toxic Spikes
- Poison Jab
- Toxic
252+ SpA Choice Specs Indeedee Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Drapion: 180-213 (52.3 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Drapion: 132-156 (38.3 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Drapion Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gardevoir: 288-342 (103.9 - 123.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Polteageist Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Drapion: 127-150 (36.9 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO


Toxapex: The best pokemon created in all pokemon-time, with SCALDS with 100% BURNS! I introduce to you Toxapex, the Water/Poison Pokemon which benefits Poison in resisting Steel and Water. The metagame is filled with a lot of physical attackers such as Dracovish and Corviknight and with FULL defensive investment and FULL HP investment, Toxapex will burn and burn with its 99% burn rating from SCALD. Baneful Bunker helps fend of physical pokemon, Haze prevents setups such as Dragon Dance or Shell Smash, and Recover is simple... it's for recovery lol.
(Toxapex) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Baneful Bunker
- Haze
- Scald
- Recover
252 Atk Strong Jaw Dracovish Psychic Fangs vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 116-138 (38.2 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Psychic Fangs vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 172-204 (56.7 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Barraskewda Psychic Fangs vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 158-186 (52.1 - 61.3%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery


Wallbreakers/Sweepers:
Gengar:
Gengar which is also the SON of Oogie Boogie is a Poison/Ghost Pokemon that has amazing speed and a wide selection of moves it can run. The Gengar set I run is Choiced Scarf and that is to outspeed Pokemon such as Scarfed Hydreigon, Specs Dragapult, and Gardevoir. Another set that is used for Gengar is a Sub+Hex combination to utilize the lovely statuses from neighboring pokemon and will-o-wisp itself.
(Gengar) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Cursed Body
Happiness: 160
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Dazzling Gleam
- Focus Blast/Thunderbolt

Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- Substitute
- Focus Blast
252 SpA Gengar Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hydreigon: 384-452 (118.1 - 139%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Salazzle:
One of the sexiest fire-breathing lizards alive, this is Salazzle. With its Fire-Typing, Salazzle supports Poison in defeating various matchups such as Grass, Ice, and Steel. Its ability is Corrosion which allows it to Deadly Poison ANY typing. I mean ANY typing with Toxic...Looks can be deceiving I know right. The set I run for Salazzle is SubToxic, which is Substitute, Toxic, Protect, and a stab which would be Flamethrower. Due to Salazzle not being bulky full HP would be the best set to run for SubToxic along with supporting Defensive Pokemon like Toxapex and Drapion. Some people like to run Specs Salazzle but there isn't any recovery unless your a goat and your gonna run like rest specs... YEAH, it's TERRIBLE. Here is my set.
SEXCYY (Salazzle) (F) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Corrosion
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Protect
- Flamethrower
- Toxic

Toxtricity:
This Electric/Poison Type Poke-Lizard has access to moves like Shift Gear, Boomburst, Sludge Wave, Overdrive, and Volt Switch and its ability Punk Rock which boosts sound-damaging moves which makes it an amazing wallbreaker. The ShiftGear Set would go best with Throat Spray. Although Toxtricity is a great wall breaker I don't think it does great in certain matchups compared to other pokemon that could be taking up its spot such as Salazzle. If you remove Salazzle or Vileplume, you could have more trouble against Excadrill and Ferrothorn. I think it would do amazing in a tier called Monothreat which means everyone uses the same type.
Toxtricity @ Throat Spray
Ability: Punk Rock
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shift Gear
- Boomburst
- Overdrive
- Sludge Wave

Toxtricity @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Punk Rock
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Boomburst
- Overdrive
- Sludge Wave

Roserade:
I haven't played roserade much but it has access to spikes and its a Grass/Poison Pokemon, it doesn't tank attacks like Vileplume but yeah. Here is a set..
Roserade @ Focus Sash
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sleep Powder
- Spikes
- Leaf Storm
- Sludge Bomb

Hazard-Removal:
Weezing-Galar:
Hey this is Kantonian-Weezing's Step Brother Galar-Weezing. It is the ONLY Poison Hazard Remover and Defogger. Its Fairy Typing helps with the Dragon & Dark Matchup and has access to moves such as Clear Smog, Will-O-Wisp, Strange Stream, and Pain Split. Levitate prevents it from being attacked by ground moves for the exception of Mold Breaker.
Hoe Hoe my chimney (Weezing-Galar) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Defog
- Strange Steam
- Clear Smog

Other Pokemon
Qwilfish: I feel as if Toxapex outclasses and running 2 Water/Poison Pokemon is pointless, Roserade has access to Spikes.
Skunktank: I do not feel like running this will be beneficial at all because Drapion outclasses and it lost Defog.
Garbordor: Yeah this is a waste of a pokemon-slot as well because it only has one typing and its niche really is Spikes.
Toxicroak: This has Dry Skin which absorbs water attacks, but Toxapex and Vileplume can help out with the Water Matchup.
Silvally-Poison: Silvally-Poison has access to a variety of moves such as grass pledge, thunderbolt, and ice beam, but I feel like this will be way more or a little more useful during Monothreat. It was useable I guess during the Dynamax Era with Air Slash, Grass Pledge, and Thunderbolt.
Skuntank @ Air Balloon
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Crunch
- Sucker Punch
- Foul Play
- Fire Blast

Silvally-Poison @ Poison Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Grass Pledge
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower

Unreleased Pokemon
Venusaur: Venusaur will be very effective and can take the place of Vileplume by being thicker. However, Venusaur only has Leech Seed and Synthesis as Recovery and not Strength Sap which is very annoying.
252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur: 136-162 (37.3 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 135-160 (38.1 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Venusaur @ Black Sludge
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sleep Powder/Synthesis
- Growth/Leech Seed/Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb/Leech Seed/Growth

Weezing Galar's StepBrother Kantonian-Weezing: Weezing will not play an important role in Poison because its stepbrother simply outclasses, by having 2 typings and access to Defog.

Conclusion:
Thank you for reading!! I really enjoy playing Poison this Gen as well as the previous-gen, Hasta La Vista~ Lovely Written by Esteemed Poison Gym Leader impersonator Roxiee.
 
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roxie

https://www.youtube.com/@noxiousroxie
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Milotic Water
Juan's Milotic (Milotic) @ Leftovers
Ability: Competitive
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 160
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Mirror Coat
- Recover
- Ice Beam/Haze
- Scald
Hello! Esteemed User, Roxiee here again. I've been testing a Milotic set on Monotype Water and it has been doing pretty good. One of Swift Swims Waters' biggest threats is Scarf Gardevoir Barraskewda and Reverse Sweeping. With a Full SpD+ and HP EVs, Milotic tanks special attacking threats towards water such as Specs Dragapult, Scarf Gardevoir, and even Toxtricity. Mirror Coat is there of course for special attacks and helps with chipping and getting KOs. Leftovers and Recover is for Recovery. Ice Beam his Dragon and Grass but Haze is also an option for pokemon that can setup. Scald is the last move slot because its STAB and it has a chance on inflicting status. I hope you enjoy the set! [Creative Set]
+1 252 SpA Punk Rock Toxtricity Overdrive vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Milotic: 259-309 (65.7 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Milotic: 152-180 (38.5 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Milotic: 163-193 (41.3 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Gardevoir Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 108 Def Milotic: 136-162 (34.5 - 41.1%) -- 64.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Gardevoir Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Milotic: 88-105 (22.3 - 26.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Milotic: 93-111 (23.6 - 28.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
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Milotic Water
Juan's Milotic (Milotic) @ Leftovers
Ability: Competitive
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 160
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Mirror Coat
- Recover
- Ice Beam/Haze
- Scald
Hello! Esteemed User, Roxiee here again. I've been testing a Milotic set on Monotype Water and it has been doing pretty good. One of Swift Swims Waters' biggest threats is Scarf Gardevoir tracing Adamant Barraskewda and Reverse Sweeping. Barraskewda does outspeed with Jolly but it does not hit as hard and plus it is already fragile enough. With a Full SpD+ and HP EVs, Milotic tanks special attacking threats towards water such as Specs Dragapult, Scarf Gardevoir, and even Toxtricity. Mirror Coat is there of course for special attacks and helps with chipping and getting KOs. Leftovers and Recover is for Recovery. Ice Beam his Dragon and Grass but Haze is also an option for pokemon that can setup. Scald is the last move slot because its STAB and it has a chance on inflicting status. I hope you enjoy the set!
+1 252 SpA Punk Rock Toxtricity Overdrive vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Milotic: 259-309 (65.7 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Milotic: 152-180 (38.5 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Milotic: 163-193 (41.3 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Gardevoir Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 108 Def Milotic: 136-162 (34.5 - 41.1%) -- 64.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Gardevoir Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Milotic: 88-105 (22.3 - 26.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Milotic: 93-111 (23.6 - 28.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
Jolly Barraskewda doesn't outspeed scarf Gardevoir btw...
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Namranan

:)))))))))))
Frnen said he was doing this but seeing as he has not posted yet I'll just put down my thoughts on fighting in this metagame.

Coming from generation 7, fighting is considered a weak type. Not the worst, just not ideal if you want to win a lot. I used this type a lot during the end of gen7 and got into MLT III by using it to climb ladder and won a few tournament matches with it as well, so I can definitely say I know what this type needed and didn't need coming into this generation.

Lets start with the new pokemon we got:

:falinks: - This mon is not good at all. Its stats are mediocre and it doesn't have a useful secondary typing to justify using it for any MU's. While No Retreat can be fun to use it does not make it worth using as it just gets run over too much before it can set up. First Impression would have given this thing a little niche but alas it doesn't have STAB so I would say to not use it if you want to make a serious team, it is a fun mon tho.

:grapploct: - This mon is on the wrong type imo. This thing has an amazing trapping move in Octolock that can pretty much terrorize any of the walls in this tier. However, like falinks it lacks the stats, movepool, and secondary typing to make this really good. I also think on an offensive type like fighting this thing just does not fit well at all. If fighting could run balance then I would say it has a niche, but right now I don't think its good on a serious team.

:Sirfetch - This mon really surprised me. Despite being painfully slow and having a pretty awful first ability, scrappy + its great attack stat gives it a super tiny niche in this metagame. Also it has access to First Impression to help with Psychic-types and Defog (if you can even use that without dying). This would've been nicer in USM when Mega-sableye was around, but nontheless it is still shockingly ok. I wouldn't say its something you absolutely should consider having on your team but if you want to use it, it can work.

Ok now with those out of the way, lets talk about where our current mons stand and how they fair in this metagame:

:Kommo-o: - This mon got nerfed hard imo. Clangourous Soul is actually really hard to set up in this metagame, and even when you do get it, your movepool is more limited due to it taking up a moveslot. Not to mention that this mon is the only good rocker on the type, so you have to decide whether or not you want rocks or a strong special sweeper, and that imo puts this mon (and the type in general) in a tough spot. I'll share three sets that have worked for me so far, however I believe that the first one is the best right now,

Lead (Kommo-o) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Dragon Tail
- Flash Cannon

Sweeper (Kommo-o) @ Throat Spray
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Clanging Scales
- Clangorous Soul
- Flamethrower
- Drain Punch

Both? (Kommo-o) @ Throat Spray
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Clangorous Soul
- Clanging Scales
- Flamethrower


:Lucario: - This mon got one minor buff in its ability Inner Focus. Now it is immune to intimidate, which is a nice quality of life buff since Justified is a little pointless on Fighting. Due to the dex cut, it is kind of mandatory as it is a really solid Pokemon with access to good special and physical set up sweeper sets. It also has a neutrality to Psychic and Fairy moves (even though it will likely die anyway because it is frail), and can threaten most Fairy types with its Steel typing. I would 100% recommend this mon on your team regardless of which set you choose to run, as it is really one of the best mons the type has to offer right now.

Special Attacker (Lucario) @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Vacuum Wave
- Flash Cannon
- Aura Sphere

Physical Attacker (Lucario) @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed / Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch


:Toxicroak: - This mon got no buffs, not even close combat like most other fighting types got. So where does it fall? Its still a good scarfer that can revenge KO most fairy types with Gunk Shot, which is much easier to spam now thanks to fairy lacking a good fairy steel type. Although galarian weezing still walls it, lucario can assist it to force that mon out. Unfortunately, Toxicroak has to fight for a slot due to Gallade being an alternative scarfer to help deal with Poison types and have a stronger fighting STAB. Despite this, its still very good if you do end up using it, but it does come down to which MU you want to win more.

Revenge Killer (Toxicroak) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thunder Punch / Ice Punch
- Throat Chop / Earthquake
- Poison Jab / Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch

Yeah it also wants to use a lot of moves, forgot to mention that before :v
Also forgot to mention it can still run the Swords Dance + Sucker Punch set but its not as good because that means you have to give up speed control.

SD (Toxicroak) @ Black Sludge / Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Earthquake / Thunder Punch / Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch


:Hawlucha: - Hawlucha went from niche to necessity on this type compared to gen 7. Helping you win against grass and bug is more valuable than ever as Fighting loses too many MU's now so you can take what you can get. Aside from that, Hawlucha is also just scary in general especially when it gets a Swords Dance up, once the walls are taken out this thing can tear teams a part similar to previous gens, and with Close Combat it now doesn't have to worry about getting screwed over by Protect / Missing. It can run the same set that it has been running since its inception, or it can run a new set that has caught popularity recently with Close Combat + Taunt with a White Herb. This set allows you to beat more walls and also activate your Unburden much easier (in front of anything that isn't ghost). Overall, this mon is extremely good and I highly suggest a serious fighting user uses it.

White Herb (Hawlucha) @ White Herb
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Acrobatics
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance

Standard (Hawlucha) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 30 HP
- Substitute
- Acrobatics
- Close Combat / Hi Jump Kick
- Swords Dance

Power Herb (Hawlucha) @ Power Herb
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sky Attack
- Acrobatics
- Close Combat / Hi Jump Kick
- Swords Dance


:Gallade: - This mon is purely to MU fish certain types. with a Choice Scarf this mon helps against Poison and opposing fighting types really well. It can also run an SD set but this isn't suggested as you are likely using this over Toxicroak and you need the speed control. It can also use trick to help deal with annoying walls like Toxapex and Appletun. This does make it niche but it at least has a good one that can help you win games, so Gallade isn't needed but it is not a bad choice by any means.

Scarf (Gallade) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Zen Headbutt
- Knock Off
- Trick

SD (Gallade) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Zen Headbutt
- Knock Off / Shadow Sneak
- Swords Dance


:pangoro: :scrafty: - These two are actually usable for once, albeit not necessities. While they do stop scarf mons with psychic from sweeping your whole team, they don't do a ton in return and get destroyed by fairy moves, which most of these psychic types tend to have. Pangoro can be used as a scarfer with Parting Shot to make pivoting easier and Scarfty can be a dangerous setup sweeper with Dragon Dance and Bulk up / Amnesia. These two aren't necessary by any means, but their niche is for sure invaluable, way more than it was last gen.

Note: Pangoro got Close Combat and Darkest Lariat so that makes scarf even better.
Scrafty @ Leftovers
Ability: Shed Skin / Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Throat Chop
- Drain Punch
- Bulk Up / Amnesia

Pangoro @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker / Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Darkest Lariat
- Earthquake
- Iron Head / Parting Shot


:Bewear: - This mon is arguably the most important mon on the type. Yes I am serious. This thing got Darkest Lariat at the right time, as ghost is everywhere in this meta and this mon can deal with most of them very well. It can set up substitute in front of most walls thanks to its bulk and can continue to Bulk up or Swords Dance to become a very dangerous threat. I've had so much success with this mon and this particular set and I was genuinely shocked at how effective it was. I think this set paired with its ghost immunity can alone make the ghost matchup infinitely easier for fighting. Even outstide of that MU bewear just takes hits from Pokemon like Barraskewda and Dracovish (who won't fishious rend if you have toxicroak) and whittles them down with Drain Punch or Close Combat. However, its still a slow mon with a weakness to special attacks, so it isn't perfect. Despite this it is still great at what it does and should be on every serious fighting team imo.

Bewear @ Leftovers
Ability: Fluffy
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Impish Nature
- Bulk Up
- Substitute
- Drain Punch
- Darkest Lariat

Speed Ev's are to outspeed corsola, no speed aegislash, and most other noninvested base 60s.


:Conkeldurr: - Despite being blessed with Close Combat, Conk is simply still too slow to work on fighting teams. Unlink bewear, it does not have a good niche with a secondary typing or have a good secondary STAB to hit hard with. This leaves it being pretty mediocre. It can can still potentially work, but its going to be very difficult for it to work effectively.

...

Overall, I think fighting is still bad, but can pull out some wins if used right. It has some dangerous pokemon that have to be accounted for, and got some nice buffs to older pokemon. However, with the prevelance of fairy, psychic, ghost, and water having very dangerous Pokemon in Dracovish and Barraskewda, the type is still offensively pressured and overwhelmed. So when Terrak, Keldeo, and Cobalion come, the type will certainly be glad to accept them.

Let me know what you guys think of fighting, is there anything else I missed? Is bewear not as good as I hyped it up to be? Are the hitmons actually viable??? Please share with me your thoughts as I would love to hear them.
 
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Frnen said he was doing this but seeing as he has not posted yet I'll just put down my thoughts on fighting in this metagame.

Coming from generation 7, fighting is considered a weak type. Not the worst, just not ideal if you want to win a lot. I used this type a lot during the end of gen7 and got into MLT III by using it to climb ladder and won a few tournament matches with it as well, so I can definitely say I know what this type needed and didn't need coming into this generation.

Lets start with the new pokemon we got:

:falinks: - This mon is not good at all. Its stats are mediocre and it doesn't have a useful secondary typing to justify using it for any MU's. While No Retreat can be fun to use it does not make it worth using as it just gets run over too much before it can set up. First Impression would have given this thing a little niche but alas it doesn't have STAB so I would say to not use it if you want to make a serious team, it is a fun mon tho.

:grapploct: - This mon is on the wrong type imo. This thing has an amazing trapping move in Octolock that can pretty much terrorize any of the walls in this tier. However, like falinks it lacks the stats, movepool, and secondary typing to make this really good. I also think on an offensive type like fighting this thing just does not fit well at all. If fighting could run balance then I would say it has a niche, but right now I don't think its good on a serious team.

:Sirfetch - This mon really surprised me. Despite being painfully slow and having a pretty awful first ability, scrappy + its great attack stat gives it a super tiny niche in this metagame. Also it has access to First Impression to help with Psychic-types and Defog (if you can even use that without dying). This would've been nicer in USM when Mega-sableye was around, but nontheless it is still shockingly ok. I wouldn't say its something you absolutely should consider having on your team but if you want to use it, it can work.

Ok now with those out of the way, lets talk about where our current mons stand and how they fair in this metagame:

:Kommo-o: - This mon got nerfed hard imo. Clangourous Soul is actually really hard to set up in this metagame, and even when you do get it, your movepool is more limited due to it taking up a moveslot. Not to mention that this mon is the only good rocker on the type, so you have to decide whether or not you want rocks or a strong special sweeper, and that imo puts this mon (and the type in general) in a tough spot. I'll share three sets that have worked for me so far, however I believe that the first one is the best right now,

Lead (Kommo-o) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Dragon Tail
- Flash Cannon

Sweeper (Kommo-o) @ Throat Spray
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Clanging Scales
- Clangorous Soul
- Flamethrower
- Drain Punch

Both? (Kommo-o) @ Throat Spray
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Clangorous Soul
- Clanging Scales
- Flamethrower


:Lucario: - This mon got one minor buff in its ability Inner Focus. Now it is immune to intimidate, which is a nice quality of life buff since Justified is a little pointless on Fighting. Due to the dex cut, it is kind of mandatory as it is a really solid Pokemon with access to good special and physical set up sweeper sets. It also has a neutrality to Psychic and Fairy moves (even though it will likely die anyway because it is frail), and can threaten most Fairy types with its Steel typing. I would 100% recommend this mon on your team regardless of which set you choose to run, as it is really one of the best mons the type has to offer right now.

Special Attacker (Lucario) @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Vacuum Wave
- Flash Cannon
- Aura Sphere

Physical Attacker (Lucario) @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed / Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch


:Toxicroak: - This mon got no buffs, not even close combat like most other fighting types got. So where does it fall? Its still a good scarfer that can revenge KO most fairy types with Gunk Shot, which is much easier to spam now thanks to fairy lacking a good fairy steel type. Although galarian weezing still walls it, lucario can assist it to force that mon out. Unfortunately, Toxicroak has to fight for a slot due to Gallade being an alternative scarfer to help deal with Poison types and have a stronger fighting STAB. Despite this, its still very good if you do end up using it, but it does come down to which MU you want to win more.

Revenge Killer (Toxicroak) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thunder Punch / Ice Punch
- Throat Chop / Earthquake
- Poison Jab / Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch

Yeah it also wants to use a lot of moves, forgot to mention that before :v
Also forgot to mention it can still run the Swords Dance + Sucker Punch set but its not as good because that means you have to give up speed control.

SD (Toxicroak) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Earthquake / Thunder Punch / Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch


:Hawlucha: - Hawlucha went from niche to necessity on this type compared to gen 7. Helping you win against grass and bug is more valuable than ever as Fighting loses too many MU's now so you can take what you can get. Aside from that, Hawlucha is also just scary in general especially when it gets a Swords Dance up, once the walls are taken out this thing can tear teams a part similar to previous gens, and with Close Combat it now doesn't have to worry about getting screwed over by Protect / Missing. It can run the same set that it has been running since its inception, or it can run a new set that has caught popularity recently with Close Combat + Taunt with a White Herb. This set allows you to beat more walls and also activate your Unburden much easier (in front of anything that isn't ghost). Overall, this mon is extremely good and I highly suggest a serious fighting user uses it.

White Herb (Hawlucha) @ White Herb
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Acrobatics
- Close Combat / Hi Jump Kick
- Swords Dance

Standard (Hawlucha) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 30 HP
- Substitute
- Acrobatics
- Close Combat / Hi Jump Kick
- Swords Dance

Power Herb (Hawlucha) @ Power Herb
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sky Attack
- Acrobatics
- Close Combat / Hi Jump Kick
- Swords Dance


:Gallade: - This mon is purely to MU fish certain types. with a Choice Scarf this mon helps against Poison and opposing fighting types really well. It can also run an SD set but this isn't suggested as you are likely using this over Toxicroak and you need the speed control. It can also use trick to help deal with annoying walls like Toxapex and Appletun. This does make it niche but it at least has a good one that can help you win games, so Gallade isn't needed but it is not a bad choice by any means.

Scarf (Gallade) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Zen Headbutt
- Knock Off
- Trick

SD (Gallade) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Zen Headbutt
- Knock Off / Shadow Sneak
- Swords Dance


:pangoro: :scrafty: - These two are actually usable for once, albeit not necessities. While they do stop scarf mons with psychic from sweeping your whole team, they don't do a ton in return and get destroyed by fairy moves, which most of these psychic types tend to have. Pangoro can be used as a scarfer with Parting Shot to make pivoting easier and Scarfty can be a dangerous setup sweeper with Dragon Dance and Bulk up / Amnesia. These two aren't neccesary by any means, but their niche is for sure invaluable, way more than it was last gen.

Note: Pangoro got Close Combat and Darkest Lariat so that makes scarf even better.
Scrafty @ Leftovers
Ability: Shed Skin / Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Throat Chop
- Drain Punch
- Bulk Up / Amnesia

Pangoro @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker / Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Darkest Lariat
- Earthquake
- Iron Head / Parting Shot


:Bewear: - This mon is arguably the most important mon on the type. Yes I am serious. This thing got Darkest Lariat at the right time, as ghost is everywhere in this meta and this mon can deal with most of them very well. It can set up substitute in front of most walls thanks to its bulk and can continue to Bulk up or Swords Dance to become a very dangerous threat. I've had so much success with this mon and this particular set and I was genuinely shocked at how effective it was. I think this set paired with its ghost immunity can alone make the ghost matchup infinitely easier for fighting. Even outstide of that MU bewear just takes hits from Pokemon like Barraskewda and Dracovish (who won't fishious rend if you have toxicroak) and whittles them down with Drain Punch or Close Combat. However, its still a slow mon with a weakness to special attacks, so it isn't perfect. Despite this it is still great at what it does and should be on every serious fighting team imo.

Bewear @ Leftovers
Ability: Fluffy
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Impish Nature
- Bulk Up
- Substitute
- Drain Punch
- Darkest Lariat

Speed Ev's are to outspeed corsola, no speed aegislash, and most other noninvested base 60s.


:Conkeldurr: - Despite being blessed with Close Combat, Conk is simply still too slow to work on fighting teams. Unlink bewear, it does not have a good niche with a secondary typing or have a good secondary STAB to hit hard with. This leaves it being pretty mediocre. It can can still potentially work, but its going to be very difficult for it to work effectively.

...

Overall, I think fighting is still bad, but can pull out some wins if used right. It has some dangerous pokemon that have to be accounted for, and got some nice buffs to older pokemon. However, with the prevelance of fairy, psychic, ghost, and water having very dangerous Pokemon in Dracovish and Barraskewda, the type is still offensively pressured and overwhelmed. So when Terrak, Keldeo, and Cobalion come, the type will certainly be glad to accept them.

Let me know what you guys think of fighting, is there anything else I missed? Is bewear not as good as I hyped it up to be? Are the hitmons actually viable??? Please share with me your thoughts as I would love to hear them.
I share your opinion except on some points:

- Concerning Pangoro and Scrafty.
If you aren't running a Dark/Fighting mon, Indeedee just 6-0 Fighting except using irrevelant Sash Hawlucha or other sash which is too specific to play against it.
It also helps against Prankster T-wave being immuned to this because of its dark typing.
Pangoroo is better with LO/Band set with Scrappy, with Dpunch/Darkest Lariat/Gunk Shot/Bullet Punch.
Scrappy is usefull to help Bewear against Ghost and especially against Sableye. Because, no joke, Sableye is able to make some holes in fighting types and Kommo-O Clanging Scales +1 is checked by Grimmsnarl/Mimikyu.
It allows to break the mimikyu disguise with Bp.
Some calculs:
252+ Atk Life Orb Pangoro Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Hatterene: 377-445 (118.9 - 140.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Pangoro Darkest Lariat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Corviknight: 185-218 (46.3 - 54.6%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO
→Pangoro outspeed and Brave Bird recoil put Corvi in a bad position.
252+ Atk Life Orb Pangoro Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 127-151 (40.8 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Pangoro Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gardevoir: 172-203 (62 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


- Concerning your Hawlucha set, the first one, you have to delete HJK because of White Herb.
- Concerning your Toxicroack set, the second one, u need to remove Scarf for sash as it's SD and Gunk Shot is always played in this set.

- Concerning Lucario: The first set doesn't fit in Fighting type because it needs to hit physically to 0HKO Indeedee and to gets Bullet Punch to punch hard fairies which is needed.
I also play EQ on Lucario instead Espeed because it helps against Poison MU and against Toxa if Scald doesn't burn (if played max hp/def) and 0HKO if played more mixxed.
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 76+ Def Toxapex: 304-359 (100 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 268-317 (88.1 - 104.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Black Sludge recovery


- Concerning Kommo-O:
Boomburst Timid is way useful for fighting than having Dpunch.
The SR leader, I don't really like Flash Canon on it, it doesn't really help Fighting as it never 0HKO fairy Pokemon.
Clang Scales/Dpunch/Flamethrower are better options.

- Concerning Bewear: you forgot its main job for fighting: It's THE answer against Corvi. Concerning the spread, you only need to be faster than Corvi.

- Conckeldurr isn't bad, the Gut set is another answer to deal with Toxapex (EQ, Facade, Dpunch,Mach Punch).
 

Namranan

:)))))))))))
Thanks for your thoughts! I will respond point by point addressing some of your points.

- Concerning Pangoro and Scrafty.
If you aren't running a Dark/Fighting mon, Indeedee just 6-0 Fighting except using irrevelant Sash Hawlucha or other sash which is too specific to play against it.
I tried alluding to this before in my post but I do share this concern with you, I feel like it is very helpful to have one of these mons on your team but imo they are still mediocre despite how important their niche is.

It also helps against Prankster T-wave being immuned to this because of its dark typing.
Pangoroo is better with LO/Band set with Scrappy, with Dpunch/Darkest Lariat/Gunk Shot/Bullet Punch.
Scrappy is usefull to help Bewear against Ghost and especially against Sableye. Because, no joke, Sableye is able to make some holes in fighting types and Kommo-O Clanging Scales +1 is checked by Grimmsnarl/Mimikyu.
It allows to break the mimikyu disguise with Bp.
I wanted to include a scrappy set in my original post but I felt like it would be considered too niche, good to know that that is not the truth. Your sableye point is extremely valid, that mon can be extremely annoying to deal with sometimes, so its nice to have a blanket check for it.

- Concerning your Hawlucha set, the first one, you have to delete HJK because of White Herb.
Noted, will change.

- Concerning your Toxicroack set, the second one, u need to remove Scarf for sash as it's SD and Gunk Shot is always played in this set.
Whoops! I'll fix that right away.

- Concerning Lucario: The first set doesn't fit in Fighting type because it needs to hit physically to 0HKO Indeedee and to gets Bullet Punch to punch hard fairies which is needed.
I also play EQ on Lucario instead Espeed because it helps against Poison MU and against Toxa if Scald doesn't burn (if played max hp/def) and 0HKO if played more mixxed.
I will admit I have not used a ton of EQ on lucario but seeing those calcs does convince me that its good for the Poison MU. Good stuff! Also the special set is only there for people who choose to use it, I wouldn't use it either because I don't think it fits well at all like you said, but I know some people prefer this so I have provided a set for them.

- Concerning Bewear: you forgot its main job for fighting: It's THE answer against Corvi. Concerning the spread, you only need to be faster than Corvi.
Yeah I probably should've mentioned that when I talked about how great Darkest Lariat was on it, thanks for bringing it up!

- Conckeldurr isn't bad, the Gut set is another answer to deal with Toxapex (EQ, Facade, Dpunch,Mach Punch).
I will say that this mon can do work vs slower teams, but against more offensive teams imo it falls off in usefulness. I think I was a little too harsh on it initially tho so I'll say its ok, just not as meta defining as I thought it would be.

Thanks for your points!
 
Frnen said he was doing this but seeing as he has not posted yet I'll just put down my thoughts on fighting in this metagame.

Coming from generation 7, fighting is considered a weak type. Not the worst, just not ideal if you want to win a lot. I used this type a lot during the end of gen7 and got into MLT III by using it to climb ladder and won a few tournament matches with it as well, so I can definitely say I know what this type needed and didn't need coming into this generation.

Lets start with the new pokemon we got:

:falinks: - This mon is not good at all. Its stats are mediocre and it doesn't have a useful secondary typing to justify using it for any MU's. While No Retreat can be fun to use it does not make it worth using as it just gets run over too much before it can set up. First Impression would have given this thing a little niche but alas it doesn't have STAB so I would say to not use it if you want to make a serious team, it is a fun mon tho.

:grapploct: - This mon is on the wrong type imo. This thing has an amazing trapping move in Octolock that can pretty much terrorize any of the walls in this tier. However, like falinks it lacks the stats, movepool, and secondary typing to make this really good. I also think on an offensive type like fighting this thing just does not fit well at all. If fighting could run balance then I would say it has a niche, but right now I don't think its good on a serious team.

:Sirfetch - This mon really surprised me. Despite being painfully slow and having a pretty awful first ability, scrappy + its great attack stat gives it a super tiny niche in this metagame. Also it has access to First Impression to help with Psychic-types and Defog (if you can even use that without dying). This would've been nicer in USM when Mega-sableye was around, but nontheless it is still shockingly ok. I wouldn't say its something you absolutely should consider having on your team but if you want to use it, it can work.

Ok now with those out of the way, lets talk about where our current mons stand and how they fair in this metagame:

:Kommo-o: - This mon got nerfed hard imo. Clangourous Soul is actually really hard to set up in this metagame, and even when you do get it, your movepool is more limited due to it taking up a moveslot. Not to mention that this mon is the only good rocker on the type, so you have to decide whether or not you want rocks or a strong special sweeper, and that imo puts this mon (and the type in general) in a tough spot. I'll share three sets that have worked for me so far, however I believe that the first one is the best right now,

Lead (Kommo-o) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Dragon Tail
- Flash Cannon

Sweeper (Kommo-o) @ Throat Spray
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Clanging Scales
- Clangorous Soul
- Flamethrower
- Drain Punch

Both? (Kommo-o) @ Throat Spray
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Clangorous Soul
- Clanging Scales
- Flamethrower


:Lucario: - This mon got one minor buff in its ability Inner Focus. Now it is immune to intimidate, which is a nice quality of life buff since Justified is a little pointless on Fighting. Due to the dex cut, it is kind of mandatory as it is a really solid Pokemon with access to good special and physical set up sweeper sets. It also has a neutrality to Psychic and Fairy moves (even though it will likely die anyway because it is frail), and can threaten most Fairy types with its Steel typing. I would 100% recommend this mon on your team regardless of which set you choose to run, as it is really one of the best mons the type has to offer right now.

Special Attacker (Lucario) @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Vacuum Wave
- Flash Cannon
- Aura Sphere

Physical Attacker (Lucario) @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed / Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch


:Toxicroak: - This mon got no buffs, not even close combat like most other fighting types got. So where does it fall? Its still a good scarfer that can revenge KO most fairy types with Gunk Shot, which is much easier to spam now thanks to fairy lacking a good fairy steel type. Although galarian weezing still walls it, lucario can assist it to force that mon out. Unfortunately, Toxicroak has to fight for a slot due to Gallade being an alternative scarfer to help deal with Poison types and have a stronger fighting STAB. Despite this, its still very good if you do end up using it, but it does come down to which MU you want to win more.

Revenge Killer (Toxicroak) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thunder Punch / Ice Punch
- Throat Chop / Earthquake
- Poison Jab / Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch

Yeah it also wants to use a lot of moves, forgot to mention that before :v
Also forgot to mention it can still run the Swords Dance + Sucker Punch set but its not as good because that means you have to give up speed control.

SD (Toxicroak) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Earthquake / Thunder Punch / Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch


:Hawlucha: - Hawlucha went from niche to necessity on this type compared to gen 7. Helping you win against grass and bug is more valuable than ever as Fighting loses too many MU's now so you can take what you can get. Aside from that, Hawlucha is also just scary in general especially when it gets a Swords Dance up, once the walls are taken out this thing can tear teams a part similar to previous gens, and with Close Combat it now doesn't have to worry about getting screwed over by Protect / Missing. It can run the same set that it has been running since its inception, or it can run a new set that has caught popularity recently with Close Combat + Taunt with a White Herb. This set allows you to beat more walls and also activate your Unburden much easier (in front of anything that isn't ghost). Overall, this mon is extremely good and I highly suggest a serious fighting user uses it.

White Herb (Hawlucha) @ White Herb
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Acrobatics
- Close Combat / Hi Jump Kick
- Swords Dance

Standard (Hawlucha) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 30 HP
- Substitute
- Acrobatics
- Close Combat / Hi Jump Kick
- Swords Dance

Power Herb (Hawlucha) @ Power Herb
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sky Attack
- Acrobatics
- Close Combat / Hi Jump Kick
- Swords Dance


:Gallade: - This mon is purely to MU fish certain types. with a Choice Scarf this mon helps against Poison and opposing fighting types really well. It can also run an SD set but this isn't suggested as you are likely using this over Toxicroak and you need the speed control. It can also use trick to help deal with annoying walls like Toxapex and Appletun. This does make it niche but it at least has a good one that can help you win games, so Gallade isn't needed but it is not a bad choice by any means.

Scarf (Gallade) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Zen Headbutt
- Knock Off
- Trick

SD (Gallade) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Zen Headbutt
- Knock Off / Shadow Sneak
- Swords Dance


:pangoro: :scrafty: - These two are actually usable for once, albeit not necessities. While they do stop scarf mons with psychic from sweeping your whole team, they don't do a ton in return and get destroyed by fairy moves, which most of these psychic types tend to have. Pangoro can be used as a scarfer with Parting Shot to make pivoting easier and Scarfty can be a dangerous setup sweeper with Dragon Dance and Bulk up / Amnesia. These two aren't neccesary by any means, but their niche is for sure invaluable, way more than it was last gen.

Note: Pangoro got Close Combat and Darkest Lariat so that makes scarf even better.
Scrafty @ Leftovers
Ability: Shed Skin / Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Throat Chop
- Drain Punch
- Bulk Up / Amnesia

Pangoro @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker / Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Darkest Lariat
- Earthquake
- Iron Head / Parting Shot


:Bewear: - This mon is arguably the most important mon on the type. Yes I am serious. This thing got Darkest Lariat at the right time, as ghost is everywhere in this meta and this mon can deal with most of them very well. It can set up substitute in front of most walls thanks to its bulk and can continue to Bulk up or Swords Dance to become a very dangerous threat. I've had so much success with this mon and this particular set and I was genuinely shocked at how effective it was. I think this set paired with its ghost immunity can alone make the ghost matchup infinitely easier for fighting. Even outstide of that MU bewear just takes hits from Pokemon like Barraskewda and Dracovish (who won't fishious rend if you have toxicroak) and whittles them down with Drain Punch or Close Combat. However, its still a slow mon with a weakness to special attacks, so it isn't perfect. Despite this it is still great at what it does and should be on every serious fighting team imo.

Bewear @ Leftovers
Ability: Fluffy
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Impish Nature
- Bulk Up
- Substitute
- Drain Punch
- Darkest Lariat

Speed Ev's are to outspeed corsola, no speed aegislash, and most other noninvested base 60s.


:Conkeldurr: - Despite being blessed with Close Combat, Conk is simply still too slow to work on fighting teams. Unlink bewear, it does not have a good niche with a secondary typing or have a good secondary STAB to hit hard with. This leaves it being pretty mediocre. It can can still potentially work, but its going to be very difficult for it to work effectively.

...

Overall, I think fighting is still bad, but can pull out some wins if used right. It has some dangerous pokemon that have to be accounted for, and got some nice buffs to older pokemon. However, with the prevelance of fairy, psychic, ghost, and water having very dangerous Pokemon in Dracovish and Barraskewda, the type is still offensively pressured and overwhelmed. So when Terrak, Keldeo, and Cobalion come, the type will certainly be glad to accept them.

Let me know what you guys think of fighting, is there anything else I missed? Is bewear not as good as I hyped it up to be? Are the hitmons actually viable??? Please share with me your thoughts as I would love to hear them.
Great guide for fighting! However, just wanted to point out on the SD Gallade and Toxicroak sets you still have Scarf listed as the item lol
 

Namranan

:)))))))))))
Great guide for fighting! However, just wanted to point out on the SD Gallade and Toxicroak sets you still have Scarf listed as the item lol
fixed

Just so this isn't a one liner I would also like to announce that Monotype Core laddering Challenge will be starting up soon,so be prepared as that will be getting posted very soon.
 
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roxie

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Creative SS Mono Sets
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Shift Gear Toxtricity [Poison]

ROCK & ROLL (Toxtricity) @ Throat Spray
Ability: Punk Rock
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Shift Gear
- Boomburst
- Overdrive
- Drain Punch/Fire Punch
Toxtricity is a wall breaker Pokemon that has an Ability which boosts the effect of sound-based moves. Throat Spray boosts the SpA by 1 once a sound move is used. Shift Gear allows it to gain +2 in Speed and +1 in Attack. Boomburst and Overdrive are its Sound-Based Moves and Drain Punch/Fire Punch is its last move for coverage. Sludge Wave is optional, but it doesn't do much for Poison, extra coverage seems to be more effective based on the battles I've has.
AV Offensive Skuntank [Poison]

Decem smells :( (Skuntank) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Aftermath
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Poison Jab
- Sucker Punch
- Crunch
- Play Rough
Skuntank is the other Poison/Dark Pokemon along with Drapion on Poison. Assault Vest Allows it to tank special attacks from Pokemon such as Gardevoir, Hydreigon, Hatterne, and go in for the kill with Poison Jab, Sucker Punch, Crunch, or Play Rough. Maximum Attack and Speed along with Jolly Nature helps it become fast in doing effective damage on various Pokemon.
SubNasty Rotom-Wash [Water]

Easy Bake Wash. (Rotom-Wash) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump/Dark Pulse
- Substitute
Substitute+Nasty Plot has been used on Pokemon such as Hydreigon or Togekiss. Leftovers is there to gain recovery after getting a Substitute up. Thunderbolt & Hydro Pump are STAB moves which hit hard with Nasty Plot, Dark Pulse is also an option helps with Ghost-type & Psychic-type Pokemon such as Corsola-Galar or Orbeettle.
Mirror Coat Milotic [Water]

Juan's Milotic (Milotic) @ Leftovers
Ability: Competitive
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 160
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Mirror Coat
- Recover
- Ice Beam/Haze
- Scald
One of Swift Swims Waters' biggest threats is Scarf Gardevoir Barraskewda and Reverse Sweeping. With a Full SpD+ and HP EVs, Milotic tanks special attacking threats towards water such as Specs Dragapult, Scarf Gardevoir, and even Toxtricity. Mirror Coat is there of course for special attacks and helps with chipping and getting KOs. Leftovers and Recover is for Recovery. Ice Beam his Dragon and Grass but Haze is also an option for pokemon that can setup. Scald is the last move slot because its STAB and it has a chance on inflicting status.
Automize WP Aegislash [Ghost]

Shield of JUSTICE. (Aegislash) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Autotomize
- Close Combat
- Shadow Claw
- King's Shield
Aegislash Manipulates Autotomize in gaining +2 Spe along with King's Shield which lowers the opponent's attack by 1.This all can be used during Aegis's Shield Form which is way more bulkier than its offensive-sword form. Weakness Policy comes into play because Aegis can tank an attack or two, it allows it to Gain +2 in Speed, Attack, and Special Attack in potentially sweeping with Close Combat+Shadow Claw.
SubHustle Dracozolt [Dragon/Electric]

Dracozolt @ Blunder Policy/Life Orb/Leftovers
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bolt Beak
- Substitute
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
Dracozolt is an Electric/Dragon Pokemon whose signature move is Bolt Beak. It doubles if it goes first. Dracozolt would go good with Webs-Electric so it is able to outspeed. Blunder Policy is an item option that raises Spe by +2 if the user misses. This along with Hustle can be useful and can lead to a potential sweep. Life Orb and Leftovers are 2 other options if you are skeptical about relying on a miss to gain speed.
Lead Spikes Diggersby [Normal]

Diggersby @ Focus Sash
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Body Slam/Earthquake
- Quick Attack
- Endeavor/Earthquake
- Spikes
Sash Diggersby fun and easy set to use. Using Spikes and then endeavor helps wall break bulky pokemon. Endeavor is optional though, you could go Slam/Quick/EQ/Spikes and still get KOs. Both can be useful and fun.


 
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