Resource SS Monotype Viability Rankings [Crown Tundra]

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SS Monotype Viability Rankings

artwork by Ticken

Welcome to the Sword and Shield Monotype Viability Rankings! In Monotype, Pokemon are ranked based upon how viable they are relative to the other Pokemon you have available on a particular type. The Pokemon in A rank are more viable than those in B rank, but that does not mean B rank Pokemon aren't useful or don't have a very valuable niche. Anything that is ranked must be usable and have some value that prevents it from being outclassed. Most Pokemon are placed into one of five different rankings: S, A, B, C, and D. Some Pokemon aren’t listed either because they are either completely outclassed or they simply haven't been ranked yet. Pokemon are ranked separately for each type. For example, Flying teams love having access to Xatu's Magic Bounce to block Stealth Rock and its ability to set up Reflect and Light Screen for the team, but Psychic teams have limited interest in Xatu because there are superior options for its niches; Xatu would be ranked separately for each type.​

General / Write up Rules
  • Flaming will not be tolerated. Please respectfully debate each other's nominations.
  • Post smartly, don't just be like "I like Dubwool, so it should be in S Tier!"
  • Stay on topic. This thread is intended for the discussion of how viable Pokemon are relative to each other, which does involve sometimes referring to Pokemon as broken or extremely good. However, there are other more suited threads for posting about whether a Pokemon is too broken, so make sure to frame your posts appropriately.
  • Please only nominate rank changes for Pokemon that you have direct experience using. Do not use theory or on-paper ideas.
  • Avoid posting very brief and simple questions such as "Why is Galarian Corsola A Rank? It sucks!" The Simple Questions and Simple Answers is the perfect place to ask your simple question to get a simple answer!
Viability Ranking Council: These people will have the final say if a decision by the community cannot be reached or a Pokemon is completely misplaced. If you have any questions or need help, please PM / VM these people.
How to rank
  • Include the Pokemon you're rating, the type, and what rank you want it to be.
  • Provide an explanation as to why you put it in that rank and how it fares in Monotype. (Why should it be ranked lower or higher?)
Monotype Viability Rankings in Alphabetical order
S Rank
Scizor
Volcarona

A Rank
Araquanid
Buzzwole
Shuckle

B Rank
Galvantula
Heracross
Scolipede

C Rank
Armaldo
Centiskorch
Durant
Ribombee
Vikavolt

D Rank
Crustle
Frosmoth
Golisopod
Orbeetle
S Rank
Mandibuzz
Tyranitar

A Rank
Hydreigon
Weavile
Zarude

B Rank
Grimmsnarl
Moltres-Galar

C Rank
Bisharp
Drapion
Krookodile

D Rank
Crawdaunt
Sableye
Sharpedo
S Rank
Dragapult
Kyurem

A Rank
Dragalge
Garchomp
Hydreigon

B Rank
Latias

C Rank
Duraludon
Dragonite
Kommo-o
Latios

D Rank
Noivern
Zygarde-10%
S Rank
Raichu-Alola
Tapu Koko
Zeraora

A Rank
Magnezone
Rotom-Wash
Zapdos

B Rank
Dracozolt
Rotom-Cut
Thundurus

C Rank
Galvantula
Raikou
Regieleki
Rotom-Heat

D Rank
Heliolisk
Thundurus-Therian
Toxtricity
Xurkitree
S Rank
Klefki
Tapu Bulu

A Rank
Clefable
Tapu Koko
Tapu Lele


B Rank
Azumarill
Mimikyu
Togekiss

C Rank
Grimmsnarl
Hatterene
Ninetales-Alola
Tapu Fini

D Rank
Diancie
Gardevoir
Ribombee
Weezing-Galar
S Rank
Keldeo
Terrakion

A Rank
Cobalion

B Rank
Buzzwole
Toxicroak
Zapdos-Galar

C Rank
Conkeldurr
Hawlucha
Heracross

D Rank
Gallade
Lucario
Virizion
S Rank
Cinderace
Torkoal

A Rank
Heatran
Victini
Volcarona

B Rank
Blacephalon
Rotom-Heat
Volcanion

C Rank
Charizard
Darmanitan
Incineroar
Moltres
Talonflame

D Rank
Marowak-Alola
Ninetales
Salazzle
S Rank
Landorus-Therian

A Rank
Celesteela
Corviknight
Mantine
Moltres-Galar
Thundurus-Therian
Zapdos
Zapdos-Galar

B Rank
Dragonite
Tornadus-Therian
Skarmory

C Rank
Aerodactyl
Noivern
Moltres
Mandibuzz
Thundurus
Togekiss

D Rank
Articuno
Gyarados
Hawlucha
Pelipper
Xatu
S Rank
Dragapult
Mimikyu
Spectrier

A Rank
Aegislash
Corsola-Galar
Gengar

B Rank
Blacephalon

C Rank
Jellicent
Marowak-Alola
Pallosand

D Rank
Decidueye
Dhelmise
Froslass
Polteageist
Runerigus
Sableye
S Rank
Ferrothorn
Rillaboom

A Rank
Amoonguss
Cradily
Whimsicott
Zarude

B Rank
Celebi
Rotom-Mow

C Rank
Appletun
Decidueye
Tapu Bulu

D Rank
Roserade
Shiftry
Venusaur
Virizion
S Rank
Excadrill
Hippowdon

A Rank
Gastrodon
Landorus-Therian
Mamoswine
Nidoking

B Rank
Garchomp
Krookodile
Seismitoad

C Rank
Steelix
Zygarde-10%

D Rank
Diggersby
Dugtrio
Quagsire
S Rank
Ninetales-Alola

A Rank
Darmanitan-Galar
Kyurem
Piloswine
Weavile

B Rank
Cloyster
Glastrier
Mamoswine

C Rank
Avalugg
Froslass
Sandslash-Alola

D Rank
Arctozolt
Rotom-Frost
S Rank
Blissey
Ditto

A Rank
Diggersby
Heliolisk

B Rank
Bewear
Obstagoon
Porygon2

C Rank
Braviary
Indeedee-M
Snorlax

D Rank
Chansey
Indeedee-F
Porygon-Z
S Rank
Amoonguss
Toxapex

A Rank
Drapion
Nidoking
Slowking-Galar
Weezing-Galar

B Rank
Gengar
Nihilego

C Rank
Salazzle
Skuntank
Scolipede
Toxtricity

D Rank
Crobat
Dragalge
Toxicroak
S Rank
Mew
Tapu Lele
Slowbro
Victini

A Rank
Jirachi
Latias

B Rank
Alakazam
Bronzong
Celebi
Hatterene
Latios
Slowking-Galar

C Rank
Azelf
Cresselia
Metagross
Necrozma
Reuniclus

D Rank
Gardevoir
Indeedee-M
Orbeetle
Slowking
Starmie
Xatu
S Rank
Shuckle
Terrakion
Tyranitar

A Rank
Coalossal
Nihilego
Rhyperior

B Rank
Barbaracle
Cradily
Lycanroc-Dusk

C Rank
Aerodactyl
Omastar
Stakataka

D Rank
Diancie
Crustle
Lycanroc-Midday
S Rank
Aegislash
Heatran

A Rank
Celesteela
Excadrill
Ferrothorn

B Rank
Corviknight
Bisharp
Jirachi
Melmetal
Skarmory

C Rank
Durant
Klefki
Lucario
Magnezone

D Rank
Cobalion
Scizor
Stakataka
S Rank
Pelipper
Toxapex

A Rank
Barraskewda
Slowking
Swampert
Tapu Fini
Urshifu-Rapid Strike Style

B Rank
Cloyster
Crawdaunt
Gastrodon
Keldeo
Kingdra
Rotom-Wash

C Rank
Araquanid
Azumarill
Mantine
Primarina
Seismitoad
Suicune
Volcanion

D Rank
Golisopod
Gyarados
Kabutops
Lanturn
Omastar
Quagsire
Sharpedo
Slowbro
Starmie
Tentacruel
Vaporeon

Blacklist
These Pokemon have been brought up multiple times for discussion with the same arguments or are just awful. A type can be blacklisted if it is an extreme circumstance. If anyone talks about a Pokemon that is blacklisted your post will be deleted and or infracted.
  • Nothing for now! Hopefully forever.
 
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Splash

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Crawdaunt :crawdaunt: D -> C (Dark): On the same track as the last nom, echoing a few similar points. Crawdaunt is a very useful wallbreaker on Dark teams, many Pokemon such as Cinderace, Volcarona, Victini, Landorus-I, and Regieleki under terrain who are very threatening to Dark teams are threatened by a STAB Adapptability Choice Band Aqua Jet. Banded Knock Off/ Crabhammer essentially 2hko's the entirety of the metagame. SD sets are able to provide Dark teams with a win condition mid to late-game as at +2 with Life Orb, Crawdaunt is very threatening. The ability to come and check the aforementioned threats and force switches via jet can turn Crawdaunt into a very threatening attacker, as for instance, Rotom-W will flat out drop to a Knock Off attempting to switch in on an Aqua Jet. Crawdaunt is definitely more useful than what is currently ranked in C such as Weavile, Grimmsnarl, Galarian Moltres, and potentially as useful as Drapion and Zarude. It is by far in another class compared to what is in D right now in my eyes.

Dracovish :Dracovish: C -> B (Dragon): Dracovish is an almost necessary wallbreaker in my eyes on Dragon teams, as it is able to able to break cores with ease just by clicking one move with very little drawback often times such as Normal's core, Dark's core, Poison's core, Steels Defensive core, and lastly Flying's core bar the odd Mantine, in addition to the obvious matchups such as Fire, Ground etc. Psychic's core gets hit hard by a Strong Jaw-boosted Crunch. In addition to Fisheous Rend OHKOing and 2HKOing the metagame (including Ferrothorn and Toxapex), Dracovish is able to tank hits reliably too with its above-average bulk. With this reliable bulk and Fishous Rend, Dracovish is thus able to win 1v1s vs mons and is able to force trades advantageously. With Dragonite mostly being boots DD, Kyurem-B being DD, and Garchomp as the Stealth Rock setter often times, Dracovish is able to slot in and provide immediate breaking power for Dragon teams' late-game sweepers.

Regieleki :Regieleki: C -> B: Although Terrain Extender may be gone, Regieleki is still a powerful offensive threat for Electric teams. Although it is definitely not a staple on Electric teams such as the users in S and A rank respectively, it definitely outclasses every mon in C rank such as Galvantula who can provide webs on a type that is already fast and not needing them, Raikou which is not that great with the loss of hidden power and essentially a slower Electric-type wallbreaker, and Rotom-H which is heavily outclassed by Rotom-W at the moment as the Water/Ice resist in one is very valuable for Electric teams (not to mention Rotom-C when that is occasionally used over it) Regieleki is a very good option as when no Electric immunity present it is able to Volt Switch around and cause havoc, and essentially forces in Ground-types which allows teammates to take advantage of it. Regieleki, being able to outpace base 115 Choice Scarf users at any time without Electric Terrain being up is pretty valuable as well. Transistor is essentially a free Choice Specs added onto the Choice Specs it usually holds (in addition to potentially Electric terrain being up) thus making even resisted hits leave marks. Regieleki also matches up nicely with the Pokemon in B rank. Rotom-C once again is usually overshadowed by Rotom-W due to typing and forming a far better defensive core with Zapdos, and Thundurus faced heavy competition by its Electric/Flying counterpart in Zapdos. Magnezone is great for trapping Excadrill, so it definitely can be argued to have as much merit, if not more merit than Regieleki on Electric teams. Lack of coverage is once again why Regieleki is not considered a 100% staple on Electric teams (S or A rank), however there is great merit for it to be ranked B here.


Spectrier :Spectrier: A -> B: Although Spectier has a great speed tier with a monstrous SpA stat, it does not provide Ghost teams with much else, and is especially not as valuable as the other Pokemon in A rank. Limited to Shadow Ball, Hex, Will-O-Wisp and Mudshot as its options alongside Substitute and Nasty Plot, I find that Gengar does its job far better with better coverage options, access to Trick and a Poison-typing to aids the Fairy matchup as well as access to the same Sub-Wisp-Plot-Hex set. Aegislash also outclasses it entirely as it is able to run a multitude of effective sets (SD,Band,Specs,SubToxic), therefore a one-dimensional Pokemon such as Spectrier is not deserving of an A rank on Ghost teams in my eyes. Being almost useless vs Normal teams, Mandibuzz, Tyranitar and not as threatening as Gengar versus Fairy and Grass teams is why I believe putting Spectrier in B rank alongside Blacephalon is better in perspective as they both have a similar ability, high Special Attack stat and are able to be dropped for one another (used over each other interchangeably depending on the team). Spectrier definitely has merit on Ghost teams, however, just not a staple option on Ghost teams in my eyes as I've played throughout since the dlc dropped.


Stakataka :Stakataka: UR -> D/C: With access to Trick Room, and a monstrous Attack and low-Speed stat paired with very threatening Gyro Ball, I don't see how Stakataka shouldn't be at least ranked on Rock teams. With the ability to tank one hit usually due to its great defenses (even hold Air Balloon to negate one of its 4x weakness) and set up Trick Room to then go to town for 4 turns can pose a threat for teams. It should at least be D if not C rank.

Aside from these nominations, the preliminary state of the viability rankings as a whole are fairly accurate in my eyes. Going to continue exploring this fun metagame out. Thank you for reading this!
 
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Appletun (Grass) :appletun: A ->C

With the return of Cradily, Appletun loses value as Grass's switch in to fire attacks. Cradily has more overall utility like Stealth Rocks and is less passive because of its access to Toxic. In this very offense-based meta, Appletun is taken advantage of too easily by Substitute or set up sweepers and is a burden when facing Flying types, as opposed to Cradily. Its movepool is also incredibly lackluster, with little to do except click Leech Seed, Protect, and Recover. Frankly, it does not deserve A rank anymore and its lack of utility compared to Cradily should be reflected in the rankings.

Cradily (Grass) :cradily: C -> A

Cradily is the best Grass mon to come in with the Crown Tundra update other than Kartana, which got banned. Its access to Stealth Rocks takes pressure of off Ferrothorn so it can more easily run Spikes, Cradily's access to Toxic allows Grass to deal with mons like Zapdos much easier, and it has access to Rock Slide/Tomb to hit problematic Fire or Flying types Cradily is meant to check. It fits a similar role to that of Appletun but performs it better, despite being neutral to Fire attacks rather than resisted. Additonally, Cradily is less passive than Appletun and is able to do more while still taking any Special attacks and most Fire attacks very well. As such, it should swap places with Appletun in the rankings.

Tapu Bulu (Grass) :tapu_bulu: C- -> B

Very unfortunately for Grass, Tapu Bulu did not get Play Rough or Grassy Glide in Crown Tundra. However, Tapu Bulu is still individually a very strong Pokemon and it got access to Close Combat, which means it's not forced to run Superpower anymore. While not nearly as essential to Grass as it was last generation, Tapu Bulu can still be an important asset to Grass teams. It essentially competes for a team slot with Zarude, which is faster but lacks the power Bulu brings. Tapu Bulu also has the all-important Rock coverage that Grass teams crave to deal with Fire and Flying types on winnable matchups like Zapdos on Electric or Victini on Psychic. Bulu is simply too strong a mon to leave at C rank with the likes of Amoonguss or Virizion.

Zarude (Grass) :zarude: B ->C

With the return of Tapu Bulu, I find it difficult to see why one would opt for Zarude over Bulu. They perform similar roles on the team and have similar coverage options, but Bulu hits much harder. As a scarfer, Zarude is faster but much weaker, and a lot of opposing scarfers will be faster than Zarude anyways. Both Bulu and Zarude get access to Rock coverage,but once again Zarude's coverage is weaker: it only gets Rock Slide while Bulu has access to Stone Edge. Even as set up sweepers Bulu has the advantage with access to both Swords Dance and Bulk Up and more sustainability with Grassy Terrain and Horn Leech. Zarude can still be a niche option on Grass, but Bulu simple outclasses it.

Decidueye (Grass) :decidueye: C -> B

The savior of Gen 7 Grass is back. I personally think that Decidueye is generally a good all around option that is a benefit in many matchups. Also, with the return of Victini, Psychic is looking like a very strong type again and Decidueye makes that matchup a lot easier to deal with. It's also Grass's best answer to somehow beating Celesteela other than Rotom-Mow, which is still a good option but seems less desirable in the current meta. Decidueye's ability to trap opponents with Spirit Shackle and remove problems for the rest of the team is still very valuable. Swords Dance access, reliable recovery in Roost, and a priority Shadow Sneak make this one of Grass's better options as a set up mon. It improves most every matchup other than Dark and Normal, which is why it is worthy for a slight rise to B rank to reflect its viability as similar to that of Rotom-Mow and better than that of Virizion.

Roserade (Grass) :roserade: D -> C

I'm not really sure why Roserade is this low on the rankings. It's better than Venusaur on non-Sunny Day variants of Grass teams with a higher Special Attack stat and Speed stat. It also makes an ideal scarfer due to its diverse movepool and Natural Cure ability, rendering it immune to being crippled by paralysis early in the game. It also has access to Toxic Spikes, which even on a Scarf set can be valuable in many matchups. Due to it being the better Poison/Grass mon to run on balance variants, Roserade should rise to C (I would prefer B but that's a stretch) to reflect that it is at the very least as viable as Virizion.
 
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As of right now, I only really have one nomination to make


Arctovish: D=>C(Ice)

This thing definitely shouldn't be in the same rank as Arctozolt. While they both have extremely lacking Speed stats, even with Slush Rush, Arctovish's strong Water STAB is infinitely more helpful to Ice teams compared to Electric STAB, being able to punch massive holes into Fire and Steel teams more reliably. With Kyurem-B in the tier, Arctozolt feels much more redundant with Bolt Beak. While Cloyster is much better for a sweeping role, Arctovish can provide more immediate speed and power under hail with relatively fast Fishious Rends. Even though you'll mostly just be clicking Fishious Rend with this thing the same way you would with Dracovish, its movepool isn't really that bad either, being able to hit Volcanion on Fire teams with Stone Edge, as well as removing Aurora Veil and dual screens with Psychic Fangs. It definitely feels more appropriate in C rank along with Froslass and Alolan Sandslash, who are difficult to fit on Ice teams but still provide helpful roles.

Arctovish @ Choice Band
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fishious Rend
- Icicle Crash
- Stone Edge
- Psychic Fangs


https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8monotype-1214634382-ey3a0fs28nfbl4rx6cz067bd44kx53upw

And here's a replay I got against Steel where Arctovish cleaned up late-game. This was saved before the Kartana ban, but the point still gets across.
 

I think Spectrier is worth keeping A ranked because of how good it is against a majority of the metagame. Ghost is a great offensive typing because of the lack of counterplay it has in general, having only one immunity in Normal and one resistance in Dark, meaning it hits a majority of the metagame for neutral and super effective damage. Normal as a type in Monotype is awful right now due to struggling in a metagame full of brand new dangerous offensive threats that can easily pick it apart, and Normal type Pokemon outside of that are extremely uncommon, with the main examples being Indeedee on Psychic, Obstagoon on Dark, and Heliolisk on Electric, which are all D ranked Pokemon on their respective types. As for Dark, Dark is a matchup that's simply not too doable for Ghost, while bulky Dark-type Pokemon are rather uncommon outside of the type itself, with the main example being Mandibuzz. Ghost is an excellent offensive typing because of this, and Spectrier abuses this to a disgusting fashion with its high Special Attack stat, Speed, and ability in Grim Neigh, sweeping many common types like Electric, Flying, Water, Steel, Dragon, Fighting, Fairy, and Ground simply by clicking Shadow Ball or Hex, despite not having extensive coverage outside of that. I don't think it's fair to say that Gengar and Aegislash outclass Spectrier when the three Pokemon are vastly different; Gengar is a special wallbreaker or revenge killer that can pick apart teams nicely with its coverage, Aegislash is a slower status spreader or wallbreaker with priority, while Spectrier is a fantastic sweeper that is easily one of the most threatening Pokemon for many types to deal with. Blacephalon's inferior Speed is a huge reason as to why I would consider it worse than Spectrier, while Fire coverage isn't too special as Spectrier can simply beat the same types it covers by spamming its strong Ghost STAB and a Fire typing being terrible defensively. Spectrier's bulk makes it harder to revenge kill and is not one dimensional either; Choice Specs, Choice Scarf, and Substitute + Nasty Plot sets are all viable and have merit in sweeping in different ways, and Will-O-Wisp means Spectrier can muscle past defensive walls like Toxapex and Drapion a lot better as well.
 
Runerigus (Ghost) D->C

Runerigus has a valuable niche in Ghost as a TSpikes and SR setter. Ghost doesn't have too many great hazard setters outside of Froslass, and the combination of hazards Rune brings is valuable. A great natural Def and SpD stat of 145 and 105 respectively give it a great bulk. Wandering Spirit messes your opponents valuable ability's up, such as Mimikyu's Disguise, Escadrills Sand Rush or Celesteelas Beast Boost. Memento or WoW provides great setup opportunity for mons such as Dragapult, Mimi or Aegislash. It has much more Merit than Palossand as a Ghost/Ground type with better bulk and movepool.

Blacephalon (Ghost) B->A

I've been paying attention to the Blacephalon vs Spectrier argument and I believe Blacephalon has equal if not better merit than Spectrier. A better movepool allows Blacephalon to not be completely walled by Dark types. Access to Fire moves help the Steel Matchup once Heatran has been removed. Lower speed but higher Spa than Spectrier mean you hit harder than Spec, and Scarf trick sets help it to beat some of its checks like Pex. While Spa sets are better, its Atk stat is high enough to make Physical sets viable, which can mess up a lot of people. The main point is that Blacephalon is a slightly different Spectrier, and therefore should be in the same rank as it.

Golurk (Ghost) UR->D
Golurk acts as bulky rocker or powerful Wallbreaker. An Atk of 124 is higher than Dragapult, and because of his low speed he can afford to run full Atk with an Adamant nature and a CB. His Dual STAB and and excellent array of fighting moves, as well as a handful of helpful fire moves allows him to take on the entire Steel Immunity core with Super Effective moves. 89/80/80 is solid bulk for setting SR, and a combination is a wide array of attacks make AV sets viable and helpful as well. An overall solid mon that deserves to a least be on the VR.

Other than these 3 the VR looks great, well done!
 
Tapu Bulu (Grass) :tapu_bulu: C- -> B

Very unfortunately for Grass, Tapu Bulu did not get Play Rough or Grassy Glide in Crown Tundra. However, Tapu Bulu is still individually a very strong Pokemon and it got access to Close Combat, which means it's not forced to run Superpower anymore. While not nearly as essential to Grass as it was last generation, Tapu Bulu can still be an important asset to Grass teams. It essentially competes for a team slot with Zarude, which is faster but lacks the power Bulu brings. Tapu Bulu also has the all-important Rock coverage that Grass teams crave to deal with Fire and Flying types. Bulu is simply too strong a mon to leave at C rank with the likes of Amoonguss or Virizion.

Zarude (Grass) :zarude: B ->C

With the return of Tapu Bulu, I find it difficult to see why one would opt for Zarude over Bulu. They perform similar roles on the team and have similar coverage options, but Bulu hits much harder. As a scarfer, Zarude is faster but much weaker, and a lot of opposing scarfers will be faster than Zarude anyways. Both Bulu and Zarude get access to Rock coverage,but once again Zarude's coverage is weaker: it only gets Rock Slide while Bulu has access to Stone Edge. Even as set up sweepers Bulu has the advantage with access to both Swords Dance and Bulk Up and more sustainability with Grassy Terrain and Horn Leech. Zarude can still be a niche option on Grass, but Bulu simple outclasses it.
...or you could just use Rillaboom, which pretty solidly outclasses both due to having a priority move and Knock Off, but isn't mentioned even once in your post. Do you just personally dislike the mon, or what? Anyway, Rillaboom also has U-turn over Bulu and a not-god-awful defensive typing over Zarude. Won't go into the rest of your post because it'd likely come across as mean, this is just the part I disagree with most.
 
...or you could just use Rillaboom, which pretty solidly outclasses both due to having a priority move and Knock Off, but isn't mentioned even once in your post. Do you just personally dislike the mon, or what? Anyway, Rillaboom also has U-turn over Bulu and a not-god-awful defensive typing over Zarude. Won't go into the rest of your post because it'd likely come across as mean, this is just the part I disagree with most.
I just want to clearly point out that I'm not advocating that you use Bulu over Rillaboom: pretty much any Grass team worth its salt needs to have a Rillaboom on it. However, Bulu and Rillaboom can coexist and play separate roles on a Grass team. I forgot to mention that Bulu's typing does give it another advantage over Zarude, and Bulu simply is much stronger than Virizion and more useful than Amoonguss, which is why I am advocating it rises in the rankings. I never mentioned Rillaboom because I think S rank is what it deserves and I wasn't nominating anything to or from S rank. If there's anything else you want to point out on my post, I'm open to hearing it. This is a discussion board after all.
 
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1605217929761.png
Zapdos : A=>S
(Electric)
Support mons like Zapdos are essential to face steel cores and other bulky cores. Let's not forget that pre-dlc, if you didn't run emolga/air balloon mold breaker earthquake runs through electric. It is a superior steel answer than magnezone imo as long as aegislash is in the meta. With the introduction of HDB, this bird is even more of a pain to break and I believe should be a staple on Electric.

1605217902470.png
Zapdos-Galar : B=>A
(Fighting)
This is a better Hawlucha imo and one that can be choiced. With pivot options in u turn, very good STAB in brave bird that can clean in many scenarios. It has very good coverage in Steel Wing, Blaze Kick and Stomping Tantrum to boot. I think this is an elite scarfer and revenge killer on Fighting which can allow Terrakion to run setup sets. It is also immune to Intimidate/defog which is a bonus.

1605217881445.png
Runerigus (Ghost) D=>C (Ghost)
With the introduction of Spectrier, I believe that Hex sweepers are much more of a serious threat than ever before. Ghost already benefits from being immune to rapid spin and I believe Runerigus can make defog a requirement on certain types. I do not think it can compete with Corsola-Galar as a wall, but as a utility option, it can possibly cover the omission of Blacephalon (in tandem with Spectrier). However, I might be exaggerating the merit of this combo. With the return of almost every good flying type and HDB being so common these days, T spikes have very much lost their allure. But I still think it can be used as a niche strat to dominate certain matchups.

I tried to not go over what other people said, and I think there are many more VR changes to be discussed especially in top-types like Water, Steel and Psychic but I wish to see where the chips fall at the end of all the quick ban rounds.
 
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roxiee

Oh wow, I'm a princess.
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:stakataka: D -> C. (Rock). Although full-on-trick room teams are not amazing in Monotype but we do have Trick Room setters that sets terrain for itself like Hatterene or Magearna(when it was here of course) on all of their typings. Rockium Z on Stakataka is pretty huge but Stakataka gaining Heat Crash is really nice as it completely demolishes Ferrothorn (allowing it not to use Superpower). However it does have a downside in being revenged by Body Press Skarmory (Skarm Steel is not very common I believe) but this can be a surprise with supporting Pokemon like Spikes Coalossal and Stealth Rock Shuckle. Looking at our fellow C-ranks like Omastar that also suffers from Z-move and HP Grass and Dragon Dance Aerodactyl which sounds sick on paper but it suffers for a spot on the team.

:barbaracle: C->B (Rock). Barbaracle was higher than C when "Ground was more relevant." Omastar originally ran HP Grass + Water move/Ice Beam for the Ground-matchup with Air Balloon but with the loss of HPs, HP Grass is fitted for Omastar. But I do not exactly feel the same about Barbaracle as it has Superpower, Grass Knot, and Liquidations to perform better than Omastar. Gastrodon-West is still very hard to get past but with support like Stealth Rocks and Spikes, Superpower and Grass Knot can go a long way. Here are a few calculations: Neutral 16 SpA (+2) Grass Knot after hazards vs Physical Gastrodon and Neutral 248 Atk (+2) Superpower after one Stealth Rock vs SpD Gastrodon. Some may say "well how do you know whether Gastrodon is defensive or SpD, well you use the calculator and test the waters with neighboring Pokemon. Gastrodon is forced to use Scald if its Balloon is not popped also to keep in mind. I do find this better than Aerodactyl and Omastar on the C-class rankings and on the same level as Cradily and Lycanroc-Dusk.

:latios: A-> B (Dragon). I do not feel like Latios is in equal ranking to Latias or Garchomp as it doesn't have the same options as Latias(Healing Wish, Specs, Screens, Scarf, LO). I don't have a lot to say about this but it just seems like it serves an underperforming as a mon when comparing it to Latios. H-Wish is really nice to bring in various weakened setup sweepers like Dragapult, Kyurem-B, Hydreigon, Dragonite, and Garchomp which are pretty relevant in the current metagame.

:regieleki: C (Electric).
Regieleki is a very good option as when no Electric immunity present it is able to Volt Switch around and cause havoc, and essentially forces in Ground-types which allows teammates to take advantage of it.
I'm sorry but I'm going to go against this nomination because I find Regieleki very cheese. I feel like Regieleki is something the metagame adapts to and even with Electric terrain, this was even more dangerous I agree. With the VR recognizing that "not running an Electric immunity" urges rises and promotes in the Crown Tundra. Pretty much every typing besides Fighting and Bug(which already loses with or without Regieleki) has a nice matchup against this and urging a promotion because of matchups you may have had against players with poor teambuilding and such doesn't seem great. Magnezone, Rotom-C, and Thundurus all play roles against select typings and comparing it to our C-rankings like Raikou and Rotom-H, it fits there the most. Maybe if Terrain Extender was allowed I can support you a little on the bump.

:venusaur: B-> C (Grass). Venusaur was an okay option to maybe Sun Grass playable at one point in time with supporting setters like Whimsicott and Virizion. However, I do feel like on the release of Heatran, there is a lesser reason to run Venusaur. Some may say "Earth Power destroys Heatran lol" but I'm not sure how you're touching a floating fireball with a Ground move. Priority Pokemon like Aegislash and Bisharp could also help with LO Venusaur in the past and SpD Corviknight when its unboosted. I seen users like confide run Occa Berry Jirachi to help with this but Heatran being more of the bigger checks for this should make this drop (as there is a Fire-immunity now).

:appletun: & :cradily: (Grass)
Appletun (Grass) :appletun: A ->C

With the return of Cradily, Appletun loses value as Grass's switch in to fire attacks. Cradily has more overall utility like Stealth Rocks and is less passive because of its access to Toxic. In this very offense-based meta, Appletun is taken advantage of too easily by Substitute or set up sweepers and is a burden when facing Flying types, as opposed to Cradily. Its movepool is also incredibly lackluster, with little to do except click Leech Seed, Protect, and Recover. Frankly, it does not deserve A rank anymore and its lack of utility compared to Cradily should be reflected in the rankings.

Cradily (Grass) :cradily: C -> A

Cradily is the best Grass mon to come in with the Crown Tundra update other than Kartana, which got banned. Its access to Stealth Rocks takes pressure of off Ferrothorn so it can more easily run Spikes, Cradily's access to Toxic allows Grass to deal with mons like Zapdos much easier, and it has access to Rock Slide/Tomb to hit problematic Fire or Flying types Cradily is meant to check. It fits a similar role to that of Appletun but performs it better, despite being neutral to Fire attacks rather than resisted. Additonally, Cradily is less passive than Appletun and is able to do more while still taking any Special attacks and most Fire attacks very well. As such, it should swap places with Appletun in the rankings.
First I want to say that the lack of moves a Pokemon has doesn't 100% mean its unusable. We have an entire Ghost-type Pokemon, Spectrier that lacks coverage at A but it performs really nice because of its Spe and SpA. Cradily is decent for dealing with Pokemon like Volcarona and Tornadus with the Rock-move but the Fire- and Bug-matchup still seems pretty one sided. Bug Buzz Volcarona at the end of the day it still does this via calc after rocks so I don't consider it an amazing check. Stealth Rocks does free Ferrothorn's slot for SR but this is not a hazard stacking metagame because of HDB. Its nice to have but I don't find multiple hazards as great as previous gens. I do feel like both are underperforming so I am going to suggest Appletun A -> B/C.

:tapu_bulu: and :zarude: (Grass)
Tapu Bulu (Grass) :tapu_bulu: C- -> B

Very unfortunately for Grass, Tapu Bulu did not get Play Rough or Grassy Glide in Crown Tundra. However, Tapu Bulu is still individually a very strong Pokemon and it got access to Close Combat, which means it's not forced to run Superpower anymore. While not nearly as essential to Grass as it was last generation, Tapu Bulu can still be an important asset to Grass teams. It essentially competes for a team slot with Zarude, which is faster but lacks the power Bulu brings. Tapu Bulu also has the all-important Rock coverage that Grass teams crave to deal with Fire and Flying types. Bulu is simply too strong a mon to leave at C rank with the likes of Amoonguss or Virizion.
I have been experimenting both Tapu Bulu and Zarude and Zarude with Bulk Up, Drain Punch, Darkest Lariat, Taunt/Healing Wish does really nice. for Steel but at the same time, Tapu Bulu has Swords Dance, Close Combat, Horn Leech, and Taunt. Tapu Bulu does have a hard time dealing with Gyro Ball Ferrothorn + Heavy Slam Celesteela + Brave Bird Corviknight + Iron Head Excadrill because of its Fairy-typing and is completely walled by Aegislash if its not running High Horsepower. Zarude's Dark typing allows it to also help with Psychic- and Ghost-type teams. Zarude can still be a niche option on Grass, but Bulu simple outclasses it. and this being a nice steelbreaker does not make this niche at all considering sunless Grass is one of the best playstyles, if not the only playstyle Grass has right now. Tapu Bulu also has the all-important Rock coverage that Grass teams crave to deal with Fire and Flying types. I'm looking: :celesteela: :corviknight: :volcarona: :cinderace: :torkoal: :tornadus-therian: . "Bulu is simply too strong a mon to leave at C rank with the likes of Amoonguss or Virizion." Amoonguss is not the best but it served as Toxic Spike removal in DLC 1 and Virizion helps with Dark- and Normal-type teams with Toxic + Close Combat (with Choice Scarf). It even has Stone Edge which can offensively CHECK some fire-types like Volcarona, Charizard or even Cinderace whereas Tapu Bulu's Speed does not match any competition for those Pokemon. If anything, I'd be nomming Zarude B->A. as its the main Pokemon that can help with Steel. Similar to Rillaboom running Substitute + Drain + Darkest in the very beginning of Monotype.
 

Havens

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:hydreigon: B -> A (Dragon): Ghost as an offensive typing is much more threatening to Dragon when compared versus Fairy atm imo, and now that every Dragon team is harboring some Lati form it only invites Ghost-types like Spectrier and Mimikyu to be setup baited even further. Hydreigon is the best current counterplay to some of these Ghosts while also allowing Dragon teams to benefit from its pivoting and stallbreaking prowess in the wake of another Kyurem-Ban.

:kyurem: D -> B (Dragon), D -> C (Ice): Déjà Vu?

:kyurem-black: S -> UR (Ice/Dragon): Fuck. Again.

:latios: A-> B (Dragon). I do not feel like Latios is in equal ranking to Latias or Garchomp as it doesn't have the same options as Latias(Healing Wish, Specs, Screens, Scarf, LO). I don't have a lot to say about this but it just seems like it serves an underperforming as a mon when comparing it to Latios. H-Wish is really nice to bring in various weakened setup sweepers like Dragapult, Kyurem-B, Hydreigon, Dragonite, and Garchomp which are pretty relevant in the current metagame.
I agree with this assessment. The value of Latios' sheer power isn't needed right now, even post Kyurem-Ban. There's a wealth of roles Dragon currently has and of which it could use, in which options such as Latias, Zydog, and hell, base Kyurem and Dragalge offer much more to the table than what Latios is capable of doing.

:darmanitan-galar: A -> S: Necessitated by Kyurem-B's ban.

:slowking-galar: UR - > D (or somewhere, Psychic): Hear me out on this one. Psychic is already a fine type to utilize, and regaining the Lati twins in conjunction with Hatterene permit the type to finally gain much better hazard control. Toxic Spikes is the most hazardous menace to the type, and you can only fit HDB onto so many mons. With Galar King, you get not only the ability to absorb the hazards, but you also get the great, special bulk associated with it, Regenerator, a pretty solid movepool, a better handle at taking on Fairy teams that doesn't have you restricted to using Metagross or Jirachi that can easily be chipped away at, and Eerie Spell which will allow you to bypass Sub users like Salazzle and Suicune and act as a stallbreaker given the gradual, PP reducing nature of the move. A very underrated pick which I've been having fun with and implore you guys to explore further, cause I think it has the potential to be a very good, anti-meta mon.
 
D -> C or B (Flying)

I believe many people are underselling G-Moltres potential. It surely does wonders versus Psychic and Ghost, but that's not all the Pokemon is about. It has great offensive presence with the spammable Fiery Wrath move, allowing it to also do great vs Steel, Ground, Fire, and Water. Furthermore, its Berserk ability pairs really well with Agility and can be used to shut down many offensive teams if it is healthy. Finally, the comparison argument. It is definitely better than all of the D rank mons and even some of the C rank ( noivern and mandi being the obvious examples there) which minimally justifies why this Pokemon should rise on its rank.

A -> B and
C -> B (Grass)

Reiterating ninjamage's post (although the rise and drop he suggested might be a bit exaggerated so tweaking it here). Appletun on Grass is not as wondrous as its other A-partner mon, Whimsicott. While it is a good check for Fire moves in general and especially Victini answer, it is really passive and fails to check certain Fire coverage users like Hydreigon, Togekiss, and Hatterene. Cradily on the other hand, should be higher, as it enables hazard stacking (I am aware of the HDB issue, but it is still useful against Pokemon neutral or resistant to Stealth Rock which do not often run the move), and it has access to Leech Seed, enabling it to outstall better its opponents and provide recovery support to its teammates. Finally, Cradily has access to Toxic, something that Appletun does not. While Grass is pretty bottom tier type atm, I really feel Cradily gives slightly more consistency than the other C mons, on matchups that are winnable for it, as well as being the best available check for Togekiss and Volcarona, which might not be very important right now due to their limited usages and matchup limitations, respectively.
 
How is Dracovish C ranked in Mono-Water? That thing is just dumb and can almost OHKO anything in 1 hit if it moves first... why not ban it?

I actually want an explanation. Im new to SwSh Mono.... so seeing G-Darm & Dracovish is odd and overwhelming.
I understand the sentiment. Dracovish is a terrifying wall-breaker and you might be right that it is underrated at C-rank for Water, however, there are many reasons to not ban it.
- Water has great options in general so you could say that fitting a Dracovish would be difficult. Some would say that Toxapex, Elec immunity(seis/gastro/swampert/quag), Keldeo/Urshifu are staples to Water.
- Now if you try to play Swift Swim, you usually have to accommodate Pelipper, Kingdra, and a physical sweeper which potentially has priority (Barraskewda/Crawdaunt/Azu/Cloyster)
-Most types have acclimated to it and if a type does, in fact, get destroyed by say Scarf Dracovish, then they probably also get destroyed by other archetypes on Water as Water STAB is rife.
-It's in a dodgy speed tier. Most teams have a scarfer which outspeeds it, making it very prone to being scared out or revenge killed. Full stall is rare in mono which decreases Dracovish's potential.
-Dracovish is quite polarising. That and Dracozolt terrorized the tier and well every other tier on release. However, it's a massive disadvantage since everyone knows what it does and how devastating it could be.
So if you are beating people in less that 10-15 turns using Dracovish, odds are they are new to the tier or had a bad matchup.

As for G-Darm, well the Ice type isn't that good plain and simple. Most teams on mono have a high-speed scarfer or priority these days, so after some chip, it should be in revenge kill zone. Avalugg is the only reliable wall on Ice and it also usually has hazard removal duty which often leads to its death. G-Darm is good but it usually can't afford to run Band sets or non-choice sets since it doesn't really have durable walls to fall back on and teams can often scout it with protect.

Mono often differs from other tiers since a pokemon can struggle to compete in a strong type or struggle because of a type's lack of support, which then leads to these sort of pokemon being kept in the tier. On the other hand, some combos can be too much for a type, symbolised by the recent wave of steel re-bans on Magearna and Kartana. It may take a while to adjust, but once you learn the playstyles and archetypes for each type, they tend to not change from gen to gen and become very predictable. Potentially far more than any other tier.

Hope this helped :)
 
1605896340510.png
D -> C (flying)
This mon's a, though difficult to set up, very potent sweeper. Once it has a DD up, it's a monster. Yes, it's difficult to do that thanks to it being pretty frail, which is the primary reason why I think C is great for it: difficult to use, but oh my if you can pull it off, It can sweep easily (unless the opponent has either Scarf Thundu-T, something REALLY bulky, or Regieleki. Those things just kill Gya).
 

roxiee

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:steelix: (Ground) C-> UR/D. Steelix was here on the VR in DLC 1 aswell to help with Kyurem-Black but in DLC 2 it helped with both Kartana and Kyurem-Black for Ground thanks to its Iron Defense/Curse + Body Press set. With the recent council bans of both, there is less of a reason to run this therefore dropping this to unranked or D lmao only seems reasonable.

:darmanitan-galar: (Ice) A-> S. Kyurem-Black ban , I second haven's statement
:darmanitan-galar: A -> S: Necessitated by Kyurem-B's ban.
:clefable: (Fairy) C->B. Clefable is really nice on Fairy and can play a role of Utility Rocks or Offensive Fire Blast. CM Clefable + SD Tapu Bulu can help a lot with Steel, especially if Heatran isn't running Taunt which cripples Clefable. I feel as if this is worth B rank because its on the same level as that category: Mimikyu's slot was basically replaced with Tapu Bulu for the time being but is ok for Psy/Ghost, Togekiss's Ground immunity is slightly unneeded thanks to Tapu Bulu's Grassy Terrain and its Grass Typing,

:chandelure: (Ghost) C->D. Palossand and Alolan Marowak serves its niches as C-rankings to help with the Electric matchup. In DLC 1, Chandelure with Infiltrator helped a lot with chipping Kyurem-Black down behind Veil but now that Kyurem-Black is gone, Aegislash + Blacephalon/Spectrier helps a lot with Ice. I feel if you really wanted a Fire/Ghost mon, you'd just run Alolan Marowak or Blacephalon and I find it incomparable with Palossand and A-Wak which serves better niches than this now.

:kyurem: (Ice/Dragon) D->C/B. Kyurem is the highest attacking SpA mon at the moment and although it may have larger threats in the tier like Nihilego or Blacephalon, the KyuB ban makes this shine a little more on both typings.

:arctozolt: (Ice). I wanna bring this mon up to discussion, although this isn't a Kyurem-Black, its Bolt Beak STAB under Hail is pretty underrated IMO with Choice Band. With Kyub gone I can see this being used more to have more direct damage on bulkier Pokemon like Toxapex, Celesteela, or even Slowbro to improve Poison, Steel, Flying, and non-weather teams as a whole. I'm uncertain about the C rank but it is def comparable to Froslass and Alolan Sandslash.
 
Tapu Bulu (Grass) :tapu_bulu: C- -> B

Very unfortunately for Grass, Tapu Bulu did not get Play Rough or Grassy Glide in Crown Tundra. However, Tapu Bulu is still individually a very strong Pokemon and it got access to Close Combat, which means it's not forced to run Superpower anymore. While not nearly as essential to Grass as it was last generation, Tapu Bulu can still be an important asset to Grass teams. It essentially competes for a team slot with Zarude, which is faster but lacks the power Bulu brings. Tapu Bulu also has the all-important Rock coverage that Grass teams crave to deal with Fire and Flying types on winnable matchups like Zapdos on Electric or Victini on Psychic. Bulu is simply too strong a mon to leave at C rank with the likes of Amoonguss or Virizion.

Zarude (Grass) :zarude: B ->C

With the return of Tapu Bulu, I find it difficult to see why one would opt for Zarude over Bulu. They perform similar roles on the team and have similar coverage options, but Bulu hits much harder. As a scarfer, Zarude is faster but much weaker, and a lot of opposing scarfers will be faster than Zarude anyways. Both Bulu and Zarude get access to Rock coverage,but once again Zarude's coverage is weaker: it only gets Rock Slide while Bulu has access to Stone Edge. Even as set up sweepers Bulu has the advantage with access to both Swords Dance and Bulk Up and more sustainability with Grassy Terrain and Horn Leech. Zarude can still be a niche option on Grass, but Bulu simple outclasses it.
I haven't tried out Grass post Kartana ban but these two nominations are ones I disagree on. Tapu Bulu suffers strongly because it can't find a good distinguishable niche between Grass's other offensive Pokemon-mainly Rillaboom and Zarude. As a Choice Scarf user, Tapu Bulu is very slow, which means Zarude's Speed automatically puts it above Tapu Bulu; not to mention Psychic and Ghost both being great types right now-two types that Zarude excels against by revenge killing almost everything and more importantly serving as a Ghost resist to check Spectrier. If you're using the Rock coverage as an example, then Zarude can actually revenge kill Pokemon like Charizard and Volcarona which Tapu Bulu falls short of.

If you would like a Choice Scarf user with more power, then you can actually opt for Choice Scarf Rillaboom, which still smashes a bunch of things with Wood Hammer under Grassy Terrain, retains Ground and Fighting coverage, and has the additional benefit of being able to use Knock Off, which it can spread really efficiently with its offensive presence and is particularly notable for removing Heavy Duty Boots on a type that relies on hazard stacking. I think an important aspect to note about Zarude and Rillaboom is that they both get U-turn, which is extremely valuable to prevent them from being momentum drains and forming strong offensive Volt-Turn cores especially with other Pokemon like Whimsicott and Rotom-Mow. U-turn and Volt Switch spam is a great way to make Grass less passive as a whole, which a type with so many exploitable weaknesses really appreciates. If you look at a closer comparison of Tapu Bulu to Zarude and Rillaboom, you'll realize how different these three Pokemon are and how hard the latter two make fitting Tapu Bulu onto teams. I can't ever imagine fitting Rillaboom and Tapu Bulu on the same team; it feels extremely redundant to stack up on hard hitters when you could be using other options to tech for harder matchups. Running something like Celebi for Poison, Rotom-C for Flying as well as excellent utility, Decidueye or Zarude for Ghost and Psychic accomplish more in the long run by covering a wider range of types in the metagame. If anything, Tapu Bulu should drop to D because its breaking sets are just so hard to fit when you have so many other better options for the slot and faces a ton of overlap.
 
:darmanitan-galar: (Ice) A->S Yeah I agree with this cause Darmitan covers so much of what Ice threatened by and the face he's effectively using two choice items simultaneously allows him to be a sweeper in a lot of situations that the rest of the ice team will likely struggle with, cause it is able to go first in situations without having to sacrifice the power for it, which helps a lot in the matchups against fire, given that he can potentially just earthquake before they have a chance. Ice might not be exactly a great type but Darmanitan feels almost as necessary as ninetales for the team.

:darmanitan-galar:(Ice) A-> S. Kyurem-Black ban , I second haven's statement
:buzzwole: (Fighting) B->A Buzzwole is providing something to the fighting team that they've been kind of been lacking since the start of this gen and that's a functional wall that's actually able to threaten setup pokemon and helps alleviate some of the worse matchups for the fighting by giving it a lot more natural bulk, and some breathing room against physical attackers, cause an issue I've noticed with fighting team is that they lack a lot of support right now. Buzzwole is able bring some of that back in a pretty high sustain physical tank, as well as helps alleviate the bad match up with ground since it can resist ground unlike a majority of the team, sure Hawlucha is a flying type but with the return of Landorus gravity will also likely be making a comeback. Now I accept that this might be wrong since it may just be better to secure your better matchups more tightly rather than softening the hard matchup.

Also I'm unsure of where to ask this, but is there any chance of Pheromosa and Blaziken being unbanned now that they've dropped out of ubers? I get that they likely will still be seen as unhealthy for the environment of monotype, however the fighting type team seems like they could use the help that they could provide, so I guess what I'm wondering is, would bug & fire benefit too much from them getting unbanned?
 

DYA

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:darmanitan-galar: (Ice) A->S Yeah I agree with this cause Darmitan covers so much of what Ice threatened by and the face he's effectively using two choice items simultaneously allows him to be a sweeper in a lot of situations that the rest of the ice team will likely struggle with, cause it is able to go first in situations without having to sacrifice the power for it, which helps a lot in the matchups against fire, given that he can potentially just earthquake before they have a chance. Ice might not be exactly a great type but Darmanitan feels almost as necessary as ninetales for the team.


:buzzwole: (Fighting) B->A Buzzwole is providing something to the fighting team that they've been kind of been lacking since the start of this gen and that's a functional wall that's actually able to threaten setup pokemon and helps alleviate some of the worse matchups for the fighting by giving it a lot more natural bulk, and some breathing room against physical attackers, cause an issue I've noticed with fighting team is that they lack a lot of support right now. Buzzwole is able bring some of that back in a pretty high sustain physical tank, as well as helps alleviate the bad match up with ground since it can resist ground unlike a majority of the team, sure Hawlucha is a flying type but with the return of Landorus gravity will also likely be making a comeback. Now I accept that this might be wrong since it may just be better to secure your better matchups more tightly rather than softening the hard matchup.

Also I'm unsure of where to ask this, but is there any chance of Pheromosa and Blaziken being unbanned now that they've dropped out of ubers? I get that they likely will still be seen as unhealthy for the environment of monotype, however the fighting type team seems like they could use the help that they could provide, so I guess what I'm wondering is, would bug & fire benefit too much from them getting unbanned?
Not the best place to ask but I don't think they will get unbanned, I feel both very broken for being unbanned. And we already had them at the start of the dlc until they were banned.
 
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:moltres-galar: (Dark) C->B/A: Galarian Moltres is the best possible answer to Keldeo that Dark currently has. Though not fool-proof, as it can't switch into Specs Secret Sword (the attack doing a minimum of 70.4%), it can threaten the beast out, lest Keldeo give it a free +1 Special Attack as it Agilities. In addition, thanks to Agility and STAB Air Slash, Galarian Moltres offers a very good answer to Fighting, cleaving through most, if not, all Pokemon on it. While 100 Special Attack isn't very impressive, thanks to Fiery Wrath, a +2 Galarian Moltres' Fiery Wrath is only slightly weaker than a +2 Hydreigon's Dark Pulse. Once it chooses which move it wants to use (Agility vs Offense / Nasty Plot vs Defense), it can be insanely difficult to stop, especially given it's bulk. Where Galarian Moltres fails, however, is in versatility and coverage. It can only run the double dance set, and against Rock or Dark (given Tyranitar's presence), it can be outright useless, being forced to play 5v6 until Tyranitar goes down. Klefki does resist both STABs, but Klefki can't actually hurt Galarian Moltres unless it carries the rare Play Rough, meaning it's nothing more than Nasty Plot fodder on Fairy. I'd like to nominate it for B, though A might not be too off a placement for it either.
 

Windingsss

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:azelf: from C -> B

Azelf being ranked so low is offensive. With the combination of Nasty Plot and Life Orb, Azelf can shred up teams with powerful attacks. It has a incredible speed tier that allows it to easily sweep and even revenge kill in some situations. On Psychic-type teams, Azelf is the second quickest Pokemon (Just behind Alakazam) which makes it a good option. It also has good coverage in Flamethrower/Fire Blast, Thunderbolt, Dazzling Gleam and even Energy Ball. Thanks to these factors, Azelf helps at different negative matchups like Dark and Steel.
 
:azelf: from C -> B

Azelf being ranked so low is offensive. With the combination of Nasty Plot and Life Orb, Azelf can shred up teams with powerful attacks. It has a incredible speed tier that allows it to easily sweep and even revenge kill in some situations. On Psychic-type teams, Azelf is the second quickest Pokemon (Just behind Alakazam) which makes it a good option. It also has good coverage in Flamethrower/Fire Blast, Thunderbolt, Dazzling Gleam and even Energy Ball. Thanks to these factors, Azelf helps at different negative matchups like Dark and Steel.
I don't think anyone is sleeping on Azelf, however I think it just struggles to get in your average 6-mon lineup.

1. Unfortunately in its elite speed tier, it is outclassed almost categorically. Alakazam stops sweeps, has greater potential as a life orb sweeper with magic guard (while playing the sash mindgame) and has greater natural offensive stats. Latios/Latias have comparable coverage but are tremendously better as setup sweepers and choice pokemon. Superior bulk, recovery and numerous potential sets for the opponents to guess make these 2 the common pick for this speed tier.
2. I'm sorry but Psychic has too many options for difficult matchups such as Dark/Steel or even Ghost. Victini and Lele being released now are almost staple picks and provide instantaneous nuke potential in tough matchups. Hatterene and Indeedee-M still have way more relevancy imo with Mystical Fire and Fairy coverage whilst providing Magic Bounce and Ghost immunity respectively.

I also feel like it is a 2-trick pony. When I see an Azelf I either expect a Lead Explosion set or some sort of glass cannon set. I appreciate your enthusiasm and I am sure that with the right support Azelf could be a very viable pick on Psychic, however my conclusion is it tries to do a job averagely than several other pokemon can do much better. For a better example of what I am trying to say look at the B-tier Psychic pokemon and look at the C-tier. There is a clear gap imo, between pokemon with great stats and great flexibility to niche picks that could work if for some matchups but does not get anywhere near a one-size-fits-all Psychic team.
 

DYA

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While i do agree on certain aspects, there are some things that must be pointed:

  • While Alakazam can play mindgames and have raw power with Life Orb, it is frailer than Azelf. It can also play mindgames because, as you said, it can be either a setup sweeper (I wouldn't call it Glass Cannon since it has enough bulk to take some hits) or a Explosion Lead.
  • Latios and Latias have better bulk and recovery, but these Pokemon, from what i know, commonly play other roles that arent the ones you mencionated. For example, Defog sets are more common because they can outspeed Galvantula and other hazard setters while doing good damage. I could be mistaken, so if you could tell me, i would like it
  • Lele and Victini are staples of the Psychic teams, we know that, but Azelf can dish out quicker and powerful hits, since these two Pokemon commonly run Specs and Band, respectively. And while yes, Psychic teams could have problems with the Ghost matchup, Pokemon like Jirachi and Victini have enough bulk to take a hit and damage back. And, if you look, Indeedee-M is ranked on the D Tier. There are also only 2 Pokemon on the Ghost teams that can outspeed Azelf, meaning it can take care of this matchup with the correct teammates. As i mentioned, Azelf also carries fire moves that are stronger than Mystical Fire so i think the only reason to use Hatterene is Magic Bounce, and maybe a bulky setup sweeper. I could be wrong on this, so you can tell me if i am.
Im still convinced that Azelf is worth B-Tier.
Latios and Latias often fits Defog in their Choice-item sets as it is always nice to have the option to use it, the thing is that Defog is not the main purpose of their set most of the time, as it is only just an add-on to them.

While you said Lele and Victini often run Band and Specs (which is true) a good team would have an Scarfer either way, being one of them or either Lati@s or Jirachi. Also in my opinion is a bit hard to incorporate Azelf to a team since there are other Pokemon that are way more useful (any of the ones above it in the VR). Azelf doesn't even beat at all the matchups you said, Steel has Heatran which could wall Azelf and be able to Magma Storm, Toxic or set up rocks due to Azelf needing to switch out, Dark has Tyranitar who is able to tank one or two Dazzling Gleam, and in the Ghost MU while Azelf outspeeds most of them naturally they have access to priority moves and they usually run a Scarfer (and if any those faster Pokemon enters after Azelf pick a kill, they would get a kill almost for sure). We also need to see how good is Azel regarding the other Pokemon in B.

- Celebi: is a good general rocker and wall that has access to U-turn, it really help in Ground and Water matchups.
- Hatterene: a good mon that has Magic Bounce to keep hazards off and can bounce status such as WoW, Twave and Toxic. It can run Trick Room for itself and be a real threat to Dark-teams, it can also run a defensive set (not sure in this rn but I have seen ones before) or a CM set.
- Latios: a generally good mon that can hit hard and has a good speed tier while having a decent bulk, has a lot of coverage and can run Specs or Scarf sets which hit harder that Latias'.
- Mew: this thing can run a lot of sets going from stallbreaker, Specs (?), defensive rocker, suicide lead and Double Dance sweeper.

I believe all this Pokemon are better than Azelf in a lot of aspects, so I don't see it B worthy.
 

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