Resource SS Monotype Viability Rankings [Isle of Armor]

[mushamu]

VR update this time around, shoutouts to Harpp for helping me write it up and feel free to PM a member of the VR council as per usual if you have any questions.

Changes

Dark

A -> B

Dragon

A -> B

D -> C

Fairy

C -> B

Fighting

D -> C

Fire

C -> B

Flying

C -> B

Ground

A -> B

B -> C

Ice

B -> A

A -> B

C -> B

Normal

B -> A

C -> B

D -> UR

Psychic

C -> D

UR -> C

Steel

UR -> D

Explanations

Dark

Drapion's niche is its potential to do good against Fairy-type Pokemon when using a Choice Scarf set, apart from this it also has Toxic Spikes support however it does not feel at home with other A rank users since they do a greater job than being confined to a particular matchup like Fairy making Drapion matchup dependent and drop to B.

Dragon

With Clangorous soul becoming a non damaging move and Kommo-o losing its HP upon using it, Special sets are falling behind as it becomes harder to set it up. Its Lead Stealth Rock set being a more viable niche for now, makes it fall to B rank as Pokemon like Duraludon and Hydreigon have more uses taking care of matchups like Fairy, Ice, Steel, and Ghost.

Haxorus's priority in First Impression is valuable for Dragon-type teams as it helps beat threatening Pokemon like Cloyster after Shell Smash, Choice Scarf Gardevoir, Alolan Raichu, and Barraskewda, and is a good physical wallbreaker otherwise. It's definitely better than Kyurem and Dracozolt which are very niche Pokemon at the moment.

Fairy

Alolan Ninetales brings the coveted Aurora Veil support with it which is greatly appreciated by Fairy-type teams as the damage reduction helps setup sweeprs like Togekiss, Mimikyu, and Hatterene. Apart from this, Alolan Ninetales can also hold off weather teams like Ground, Fire, and Water, allowing Fairy-type teams to stand a better chance against these weather abusing types. All these points make it more usable than Primarina and hence Alolan Ninetales should move to B rank.

Fighting

Gallade does a decent job of breaking Poison-type teams while not being too restricted to just that as it can help in beating Pokemon like Alolan Raichu with Shadow Sneak and its Knock Off utility which is good against Psychic-types. With all these traits in mind, we felt like it finds itself a better home in C rather than being ranked next to other more niche Pokemon in D.

Fire

Specially Defensive Incineroar acts as a good defensive pivot taking on Pokemon like Choice Scarf Dragapult, Indeedee, and Gardevoir. Apart from this its ability Intimidate is useful to deter physical attackers like Kyurem-B and Obstagoon. With its bulk + utility and pivoting, we felt like Incineroar fit better with the B ranked Pokemon rather than more niche options like Chandelure and Ninetales.

Flying

When using a Choice Scarf set, Noivern not only ensures that Flying-type teams do not lose to DD Kyurem-B which is otherwise a huge threat but it also threatens the entire Dragon-type team since it has support of Pokemon like Corviknight and Mantine to pivot into. Infiltrator makes it extremely reliable at beating Kyurem-B as it can ignore its Substitute and screens support from either type.

Ground

Gastrodon with its access to a reliable recovery move makes it a more sturdier choice than Seismitoad to provide Water-type immunity to the team. Seismitoad is prone to getting worn out since its lack of a proper way of recovery moreover Gastrodon is able to use Toxic now which makes its defensive set more potent, making Seismitoad drop to B.

Dugtrio's trapping has shown to be rather inconsistent as a result of it being over reliant on Focus Sash. It's a fairly niche Pokemon, so it drops a rank.

Ice

Weavile is an amazing option on Ice teams right now as a Choice Scarf user. Its speed tier is extremely useful in checking huge threats to Ice teams such as Choice Scarf Jirachi, Choice Scarf Gengar, Choice Scarf Charizard, and Cloyster after a Shell Smash.

Despite still being good, Cloyster is rather harder to fit on Ice teams than the other A ranked Pokemon, so it drops a rank.

Piloswine's bulk combined with Thick Fat is really nice for setting Stealth Rock and switching into Pokemon, which puts it a rank above Froslass and Galarian Mr. Mime which are rather niche options on hyper offense.

Normal

We were thinking of raising more Pokemon up to A on Normal instead of just having Indeedee-M as the only Pokemon. Snorlax was a pretty obvious choice as a bulky setup sweeper thats able to fit on pretty much any Normal team, and is especially nice for switching into special attacks like Dragapult's Draco Meteor and status as Normal doesn't have a defensive backbone.

Being an offensive check to Keldeo is amazing especially when it outspeeds and threatens the rest of the Water team pretty well. Other than that, it's also good in other matchups such as Ground, Dark, Steel and Flying thanks to its coverage. Since we're planning on rising more Pokemon to A on Normal, we decided to shift Heliolisk to B.

Unfeazent is basically just a slightly weaker Braviary without Close Combat.

Psychic

Galarian Mr. Mime is hard to fit on Psychic teams because of Jirachi already being a great Choice Scarf user with the same speed tier and Magic Bounce users keeping hazards away just fine. It falls short when compared to Orbeetle which can find itself a place on more offensive teams thanks to Sticky Web, so it drops to D.

Xatu is a decent screens setter thanks to Magic Bounce preventing hazards from being set and Defog from removing screens. Teleport is also nice for bringing in setup sweepers safely, so it goes to C.

Steel

Copperajah is usable with Trick Room. Although it's not anything too fancy, being D ranked shows it has a niche that goes hand in hand with Bronzong which is also ranked for Trick Room teams as a setter.

Discussion points:

Alolan Ninetales (Fairy)
Cobalion (Fighting)
Salazzle (Fire)
Arcanine (Fire)
Runerigus (Ghost)
Diggersby (Normal)
Obstagoon (Normal)
Claydol (Psychic)
Meowstic (Psychic)
Solrock (Rock)

 

[Fylkir Pudin]

Steel

UR -> D

its about god damn time

 

[ImperialGamer517]

Ok, here is what I think about the new discussion.

Runerigus: C -> D Honestly, I don’t think this Pokemon deserves to be C-rank since it is a mostly passive mon. The only way this Pokemon works btw is when it is a TR team. Heck, most Ghost-type mons don’t run TR on their team.

Cobalion, Alolan Ninetales, and Salazzle: Neutral, these Pokemon are already in their rightful ranking.

Arcanine: B -> C: This Pokemon is now outclassed by Darmanitan as a sweeper. Darmanitan just hits harder, and has far better coverage than Arcanine. That’s why I believe it should drop.

Diggersby and Obstagoon: B -> A These Pokemon have great offensive prowess thanks to their abilities. Diggersby hits hard thanks to Huge Power, while Obstagoon can utilize Guts + Flame Orb to become a fearsome wallbreaker.

Meowstic: UR -> D: This Pokemon is just great on HO teams because it can set up dual screens easily thanks to its speed tier.

Claydol: UR -> D: This Pokemon is one of the few Rapid Spinners Psychic teams have to offer. That’s just it, I don’t get it why it’s ranked so low.

 

[GuzzlesOwO]

Meowstic: Unranked —> C: I would think Meowstic deserves a C among the other Screen setters, it’s ability Prankster is huge in setting up screens, getting priority in screens allows to tank hits and Meowstic also gets twave as well as yawn to disrupt the opposition’s mons - in short it’s like Klefki without Spikes.

Apart from that, I agree with ImperialGamer517’s perspective on the rest of the discussion.

 

[roxie]

Runerigus (Ghost) C-> C. The niche of course for Runerigus is hazard stack but running this can make some matchups more difficult. Earthquake from Excadrill does less damage towards Galarian Corsola but its major problem is Runerigus gaining health back (via recovery) aside from Rest. This Pokemon is secondary and I really do not know if it should stay at this rank or not. I have seen people run it to get extra chip damage for physical DD Dragapult to sweep.
252 Atk Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Runerigus: 93-111 (29 - 34.6%) -- 99.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Corsola-Galar: 82-97 (25.3 - 29.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Runerigus (Ground) D-> C. Piggy packing on the comments above, I have been testing sandless ground and the hazards have been great! Running Seismitoad's (Substitute + Protect) set abuses Toxic Spikes and can surprisingly help in matchups such as Ice (providing Rapid Spin + Body Press) immunity for Avalugg and Normal (since a Normal doesn't have amazing removal). @'ing mateeus to bring Staravia to SS to evolve into Staraptor. 7 year old: doesn't Hatterne just magic bounce its entire purpose inside Pokemon!! NO! Runerigus can run either Night Shade or Shadow Claw as its last moveset.

Runerigus

Ancient Ruins! (Runerigus) @ Mental Herb
Ability: Wandering Spirit
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic Spikes
- Will-O-Wisp
- Night Shade/Shadow Claw

Reuniclus B->C. Runerigus is kinda situational right now. Its a coinflip. Comparing Reuniclus to other B-Ranked Pokemon like Indeedee-F and Necrozma that has a variety in flexibility that function well with there EVs/IVs while as Compared to Reuniclus, Double Dance setup just gets walled by Dark-types. Nasty Plot Mew and Automize Necrozma outclass Reuniclus!

Meowstic (Psychic): UR -> D. As I said before, setting up dual screens + yawn(which forces sweepers out) and supports sweepers such as Hatterne, Mew, and Necrozma. It's a discount Xatu in my opinion but it has use with prankster priority.

 

[Guwahavel]

As someone who has used Claydol a decent amount of Psychic I think it could potentially be put into the D-Rank but certainly nowhere higher. When running a Colbur Berry it can act as a soft check to Pokemon like Bisharp, Zeraora, and Drapion thanks to its STAB Earth Power while also providing Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin in a single teamslot. Also, Psychic has alot of Healing Wish users that can restore its health if necessary.

Some Calcs

252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Colbur Berry Claydol: 153-183 (47.2 - 56.4%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Claydol Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 194-230 (71.5 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Zeraora Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Colbur Berry Claydol: 100-118 (30.8 - 36.4%) -- 60.1% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Claydol Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zeraora: 174-206 (54.8 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Drapion Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Colbur Berry Claydol: 87-103 (26.8 - 31.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 SpA Claydol Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Drapion: 186-218 (66.1 - 77.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Though it definitley has alot of flaws I think Claydol could be potentially worth ranking on Psychic, being an entirely usable choice for a hazard setter/remover and defensive pivot.

 

[GuzzlesOwO]

Also, something I would like to mention, as someone who plays a lot of Normal, I noticed that Dubwool is missing from the Normal VR, which I think is a big oversight - Dubwool should be ranked D. It has use as a Cotton Guard setter and since it gets Body Press it can also deal out large quantities of damage to the opponent. It’s also a good user of Rest-Talk, and if played right it can be a threat similair to Snorlax. As a Defensive Wall and a Sweeper, I think it deserves a D rank.

 

[roxie]

Also, something I would like to mention, as someone who plays a lot of Normal, I noticed that Dubwool is missing from the Normal VR, which I think is a big oversight - Dubwool should at least be ranked D. It has use as a Cotton Guard setter and since it gets Body Press it can also deal out large quantities of damage to the opponent. It’s also a good user of Rest-Talk, and if played right it can be a threat similair to Snorlax. As a Defensive Wall and a Sweeper, I think it deserves a D or C rank.

Dubwool UR -> UR.
I feel like it should remain in UR. Its a niche for sure, but Bewear, in the long run, is better by providing Fighting + Dark STAB(which hits ghosts). For steel, it's just a free switch-in for Aegislash and yes Thunder Wave can cripple it but hazard stack Spikes + Stealth Rock is situational, Taunt Corviknight is already annoying. But its a fun mon to play around with

 

[GuzzlesOwO]

Solrock B —> C
I think Solrock should move down from where it is, it has a strong roll in TR rock, being able to use Explosion to deal damage and get the next Rock mon out is really useful but I don’t think it’s worth B Tier. Not all rock teams are TR so it’s a niche and it still remains a better TR mon than it’s counterpart Lunatone since Solrock has the explosion utility as a Physical Attacker and since it’s an option for a specific version of rock, I wouldn’t say it deserves B, unlike Pokémon like Coalossal and Rhyperior which is used in Rock independent of the team.

Sudowoodo UR —> D
So on the topic of rock and TR, I’d like to nominate Sudowoodo for D Tier. It has a niche in TR due to it’s slow speed and fairly high attack stat. It also gets the ability Rock Head with the moves Wood Hammer and Head Smash, along with Choice Band it OHKOs and 2HKOs a large majority of mons. I think this niche makes it worth ranking for D Tier, similar to how Copperajah has been ranked in Steel. (Also notably it gets Fire Punch which can really help against steel as well as Earthquake)

Some Calcs: 252+ Atk Choice Band Sudowoodo Head Smash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Dracovish: 336-396 (104.3 - 122.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Sudowoodo Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Corviknight: 321-378 (80.2 - 94.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Sudowoodo Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 178-211 (58.5 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Sudowoodo Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 230-272 (54.7 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Hippowdon Outspeeds so Sudowoodo moves first in TR)

 

[Dragapult]

Runerigus is a niche choice on Ghost that has little case for appearing anywhere above D. It is a pretty miserable choice given that running it essentially requires you to forgo running Corsola (which otherwise outclasses it completely, for several reasons), as well as the reality of the present meta not being kind to the Ground/Ghost typing.

As has been discussed, its lone use on Ghost is setting up Toxic Spikes, which while appearing an attractive option given built-in immunity, is a pretty slow hazard (2 turn setup) on a type that can't spare the luxury of extra turns due to being frail outside of Corsola. On the actual hazard itself, Steel doesn't care, Water and Dark have removal options which invalidate both Rune and its switch-ins, Psychic can play around it, and Dragon just sends in Hydra and punishes you. I've neither seen nor even heard of TR Ghost being a thing this gen so I'm not sure why it was brought up.

 

[its.huey]

Silvally (Rock): UR > C
Probably a controversial suggestion to jump from unranked to C, but Silvally does bring a lot to Rock teams more than just an outside niche. To note - it's the fastest Rock type after Terrakion, with decent all around bulk, and the highest SpA with access to an extensive movepool to boot. This allows you to run Grass Pledge or TBolt to hit Water types and even Draco to hit Dracovish with a chance to OHKO. U-turn and Defog add to versatility. Altogether, I think Silvally brings something new and valuable to the pretty lackluster Rock Monotype.

 

[mushamu]

Solrock B —> C
I think Solrock should move down from where it is, it has a strong roll in TR rock, being able to use Explosion to deal damage and get the next Rock mon out is really useful but I don’t think it’s worth B Tier. Not all rock teams are TR so it’s a niche and it still remains a better TR mon than it’s counterpart Lunatone since Solrock has the explosion utility as a Physical Attacker and since it’s an option for a specific version of rock, I wouldn’t say it deserves B, unlike Pokémon like Coalossal and Rhyperior which is used in Rock independent of the team.

Solrock's niche on Rock isn't as a Trick Room setter. Its main purpose on Rock is to set Light Screen and Reflect for other sweepers like Tyranitar, Barbaracle, Terrakion and Rhyperior to take advantage of, along with being able to cripple various Pokemon with Will-O-Wisp which makes it more suited than Lunatone at the role. Rock teams revolve around Sticky Web offense with a lot of setup sweepers, so being able to support those well is the reason Solrock is B ranked right now.

 

[GuzzlesOwO]

Pyukumuku UR —> D
So, I think Pyukumuku is a really nice niche in Stall Water that might be worth ranking. With the Unaware ability, it can effectively counter setup sweepers (pun intended) with the utility of Counter and Mirror Coat to hit back at opponents. It can also use Soak to turn mons that it can’t mirror coat/counter into water types so it can, for example soaking Sableye or you could use Soak and run Toxic on Pyuk to nicely be able to get off Toxic on Steel Mons like Corv or Ferro. It also gets recover for healing after it may have taken damage from an opponent and Countering/Mirror Coating. Overall, I think this makes it a nice utility in stall water which makes it deserving of D Rank.

 

[roxie]

Pyukumuku UR —> D
So, I think Pyukumuku is a really nice niche in Stall Water that might be worth ranking. With the Unaware ability, it can effectively counter setup sweepers (pun intended) with the utility of Counter and Mirror Coat to hit back at opponents. It can also use Soak to turn mons that it can’t mirror coat/counter into water types so it can, for example soaking Sableye or you could use Soak and run Toxic on Pyuk to nicely be able to get off Toxic on Steel Mons like Corv or Ferro. It also gets recover for healing after it may have taken damage from an opponent and Countering/Mirror Coating. Overall, I think this makes it a nice utility in stall water which makes it deserving of D Rank.

Pyukumuku UR —> UR
Stall Water isn't going to be good until Suicune and Azumarill comes. Right now it gets bopped by Kyurem-Black and 90% of the metagame is running Kyurem-Black Substitute + Dragon Dance. Corviknight just taunts Pyukumuku aswell, when kyurem black gets suspected i can see stall water having a purpose

 

[ImperialGamer517]

Time for another nomination!

(Dragon) A -> S

Explanation

This is obvious to me on why this thing should rise to S-tier. First of all, it helps Dragon-type teams against the types they are weak to: opposing Dragon, as well as Ice and Fairy. Even the FB spotlight said that Duraludon is a staple amongst Dragon-type teams. That’s why I feel Duraludon should rise.

(Poison) A -> S

Explanation

IMO this Pokémon feels a little bit underrated. First of all, Salazzle has the amazing ability in Corrosion which helps wear down Steel teams and opposing Poison teams. It also has a great Speed tier to do that.

 

[GuzzlesOwO]

Time for another nomination!

View attachment 248382 (Poison) A -> S

Explanation

IMO this Pokémon feels a little bit underrated. First of all, Salazzle has the amazing ability in Corrosion which helps wear down Steel teams and opposing Poison teams. It also has a great Speed tier to do that.

Honestly, I love playing Salazzle and love Salazzle as a Pokémon but in this metagame I feel as though it has a perfect position where it is, it has a very nice niche in Corrosion, but apart from matchups against Steel, Poison or Ice types in quite a few matchups it does very little, for example against Hatterene or Snorlax it just gets walled and is forced to switch, letting the Hatt get a free Trick Room/CM or in the Snorlax’s case a free Curse. I feel as though this level of utility in poison of helping drastically against steel is on the same level as the other mons in the A tier, so I would say for it to stay where it is.

 

[roxie]

Time for another nomination!

View attachment 248379 (Dragon) A -> S

Explanation

This is obvious to me on why this thing should rise to S-tier. First of all, it helps Dragon-type teams against the types they are weak to: opposing Dragon, as well as Ice and Fairy. Even the FB spotlight said that Duraludon is a staple amongst Dragon-type teams. That’s why I feel Duraludon should rise.

View attachment 248382 (Poison) A -> S

Explanation

IMO this Pokémon feels a little bit underrated. First of all, Salazzle has the amazing ability in Corrosion which helps wear down Steel teams and opposing Poison teams. It also has a great Speed tier to do that.

Sorry going to have to disagree! Duraludon is awfully terrible in special defense and yes it helps with the Fairy and Ice matchup which is amazing for Dragon, but Duraludon is not a Staple on dragon. Duraludon plays a significant role , but not as important as Dragapult and Kyurem-Black. Like S rank is best of the best!

Salazzle is amazing too and I love Poison so much, but I disagree. When I think of Poison, the first Pokemon that comes to mind is Toxapex and its stats and stalling out damage with various status moves like Toxic Spikes, Scald, and Toxic and regaining its health back with Regenerator is quite amazing. Salazzle benefits greatly in the steel matchup and is awfully fragile, its fire typing is useful but at the same time its a downside because of Stealth Rock damage. It can die pretty quickly, I don't think its on the same level as Toxapex, with Galarian Weezing I feel it should be~

Note: reason while vileplume is B and not A (its main niche is to help with Ground/Excadrill)

 

[mushamu]

Time for another nomination!

View attachment 248379 (Dragon) A -> S

Explanation

This is obvious to me on why this thing should rise to S-tier. First of all, it helps Dragon-type teams against the types they are weak to: opposing Dragon, as well as Ice and Fairy. Even the FB spotlight said that Duraludon is a staple amongst Dragon-type teams. That’s why I feel Duraludon should rise.

View attachment 248382 (Poison) A -> S

Explanation

IMO this Pokémon feels a little bit underrated. First of all, Salazzle has the amazing ability in Corrosion which helps wear down Steel teams and opposing Poison teams. It also has a great Speed tier to do that.

Generally when you nominate a Pokemon you should be looking at how good it is compared to other Pokemon on the type, because that's what the viability rankings are all about. For example, let's look at these nominations. It is true that Duraludon is a great option on Dragon teams because of its ability to beat Fairy and Ice teams pretty well as a Choice Scarfer or support Kyurem-B with screens, but is it really as good as Dragapult and Kyurem-B? Dragapult and Kyurem-B are pretty much undoubtedly two of the best Pokemon on Dragon, with Dragapult beating a lot of matchups with Choice Specs or just being one of the best revenge killers in the metagame with Choice Scarf, and Kyurem-B being able to sweep a majority of types nicely with Dragon Dance and its great bulk. Compared to those two Pokemon, I'd say Duraludon is noticeably worse, so that's why it's ranked a rank lower than them. The same can be said when you compare Salazzle to Toxapex, nothing on Poison can really compare to what Toxapex offers as an excellent defensive pivot and wall, which holds Poison teams together due to their balanced nature, and therefore is the only S ranked Pokemon on the type.

Being not S ranked doesn't necessarily mean the Pokemon isn't a staple on the type, it only means the Pokemon simply isn't as good as the Pokemon that are sitting at S at the moment. Duraludon and Salazzle both serve important roles on their respective types, but the fact that they're not as good as Dragapult and Kyurem-B or Toxapex is why they're ranked a rank below those respective Pokemon. The same can be said about many other A ranked staples on other types. The viability rankings are all about the Pokemon's viability relative to other Pokemon's viability on the type. A ranked Pokemon are not as good as the S ranked Pokemon, B ranked Pokemon aren't as good as the A rankers, and so on. I encourage you to take this into consideration the next time you make a nomination.

 

[Fylkir Pudin]

Right, Durant on steel D-C

I've played around with durant a fair bit recently on steel and I feel like it adds a lot against some of the types that steel really struggles with, specifically dark and psychic but it also helps vs dragon and water a fair bit. Stats wise the only thing that really stands out is its amazing speed tier, as its faster than the fighting swords and other massive threats to steel like non scarf zard, the pixies, hydra and even like flygon. Where it shines though is also its biggest downfall in its ability hustle, which combined with an attack boosting item like life orb makes Durant's attacks stupidly strong, however this comes at a cost of dropping its accuracy to 80%. it also has woeful special defense but you don't want to take hits with it anyway so its fine tbh

Durant has a great movepool to take on most types in the meta and gets a fair bit of coverage in steel, fighting, dark, rock, electric, ground and ghost type attacks. It also gets a boosting move in hone claws which conveniently also raises accuracy. This isn't even mentioning its most important move in first impression which (because of its +3 priority) can absolutely decimate plenty of threatening setup sweepers like kyurem black, nasty plot mew, sun venusaur, rain seismitoad and plenty more. Its also great vs grimmsnarl, sableye and other prankster mons as it has a faster priority bracket than prankster which means that they can't will-o-wisp/twave/screens/anything that threatens durant.

Types like Grass, Psychic and Dark just do not have an answer to it in this metagame and honestly just have to pray for a miss to even have a chance in the mu as even their defensive checks like mandibuzz and ferro can get 2hkod by a combination of first impression and either rock slide or superpower. And psychic's priority check in indeedee is slower and gets ohkod unless it's running scarf.

And I guess the most important point is that it adds so much more than any of Bronzong, Copperajah and cobalion do to a steel team, like zong is a decent wall and fire check but its so passive, raj is literally only used by me and coba isnt great as a rocks lead as steel doesnt run HO and as a setup sweeper is just inferior to luc tbh.

Some Calcs

I'm going to start with dark and psy as they are the 2 main types that durant beats

252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 253-300 (93.3 - 110.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
after rocks bish is dead and because first impression is +3 prio it goes first
252+ Atk Black Glasses Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Durant: 133-157 (51.7 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and the ant has enough defense to live a non boosted sucker if bish comes in on it

252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 554-655 (170.4 - 201.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
no surprises

252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant First Impression vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 175-208 (41.2 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 198-234 (46.6 - 55.1%) -- 68.4% chance to 2HKO
not a great chance to 2hko but with some chip on mandi you can kill it on the switch in

252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant First Impression vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Sableye: 320-378 (105.2 - 124.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
easy ohko, avoids will-o as well which is nice

252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant First Impression vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Grimmsnarl: 360-425 (91.3 - 107.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
similar thing, but grimm is slightly bulkier than sableye

-1 252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant First Impression vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Incineroar: 185-218 (46.9 - 55.3%) -- 70.7% chance to 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Incineroar: 328-387 (83.2 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
incineroar is not a switchin and gets 2hk0d provided the durant user has superpower

on psychic

252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Indeedee: 364-429 (139.4 - 164.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
this is the important one, basically indeedee can come in on the impression but as most are not scarf they cannot take the next hit anyway

252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant First Impression vs. 252 HP / 40 Def Mew: 484-572 (119.8 - 141.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 507-601 (148.6 - 176.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
both stallbreaker and np mew are massive threats to steel, and ofc provided durant hits it ohkos both as its faster than the vacuum wave

252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 253-300 (74.1 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
this is not a switchin

252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gardevoir: 360-425 (129.9 - 153.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
and gard just dies

other threatening mons

252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant First Impression vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Dracovish: 253-300 (78.5 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
after a bit of chip vish just dies
252 Atk Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (85 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Durant: 147-174 (57.1 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and conveniently doesnt kill if it moves second

252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Iron Head vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-Black: 452-533 (111.8 - 131.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
kyub cannot set up to no ones surprise
252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant First Impression vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-Black: 253-300 (62.6 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
and provided you can get some decent chip durant smashes it with an impression

252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant First Impression vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 152-179 (43.1 - 50.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 268-317 (76.1 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
this is the one bulky bug neutral on grass and still gets 2hkod

252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 246-290 (76.1 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
keld is a massive threat to steel but it can be dealt with if it is low

252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Heat: 265-315 (109.9 - 130.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
offensive rotom heat gets ohkod
252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Heat: 265-315 (87.1 - 103.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
bulky dies after some chip

252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Wash: 239-282 (99.1 - 117%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
wash on the other hand just dies to an impression
252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant First Impression vs. 252 HP / 52+ Def Rotom-Wash: 208-246 (68.4 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
but if defensive needs this + a superpower

so if you can fit either stomping tantrum or crunch on the set then even mons like aegi cannot wall
252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 226-268 (69.7 - 82.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Stomping Tantrum vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 211-250 (65.1 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and remember if they king shield or you miss the turn before tantrum is double damage

damn i really said some and then put a whole wall in, anyway there are a fair few more mons that i could put in here but i think these get the point across well enough

Basically I think durant is massively underrated in this meta, and honestly the only flaws in this pokemon are its awful special bulk and fucking accuracy problems. Imo would be at least A rank if it hit all its moves its that good

 

[Floss]

Going to dump a plethora of noms here, that better fit changes in meta. (s/o DugZa for help)

Xatu B -> C (Flying)
Xatu's utility has declined since Dynamax meta, and doesn't deserve to be ranked with the likes of Mandibuzz, Mantine, and Noivern. Mandibuzz and Mantine are better hazard removal/prevention options with their bulk, and Mantine can be used as a sweeper in Rain archetypes as well. Meanwhile, Noivern is necessary for the Dragon MU with Scarf Infiltrator Draco Meteor threatening Kyu-B. Due to the niche of Magic Bounce, it finds a fit in C rank with the likes of Pelipper and Hawlucha. (could make an argument for dropping Xatu to D, but C is fine).

Indeedee-F B -> C (Psychic)
While Necrozma and Reuniclus have the potential to be effective setup mons due to their respective abilities, Prism Armor and Magic Guard, and access to reliable recovery, Indeedee-F's only niche over the male version is Healing Wish, which is already covered by Gardevoir and Jirachi. The drop-off in Special Attack and Speed isn't worth it for gains in defensive stats, especially for an offensively oriented mon.

Barraskewda B -> C (Water)
Barraskewda should drop to C rank because it is constrained by only being viable on Swift Swim variants, when there is a rise in the usage of non-Rain water, as well as Webs variants (Webs also have Rain, but Barraskewda's insane Speed is less valuabe there). Even on Swift Swim Water, Dracovish and Rotom-Wash are often preferred, while Crawdaunt can put in work in Psychic and Ghost MUs. Therefore, I feel that Barraskewda is more suited to the C rank, with the likes of Blastoise and Gastrodon.

Togekiss A -> B (Fairy)
Whenever I find myself building Fairy teams, I find Grimmsnarl indispensable in comparison to Togekiss, which is an afterthought until I come to the latter stages of the team. Togekiss is constrained by only being able to run four out of five important moves, those being Air Slash, Fire coverage, Nasty Plot, TWave, and Roost. While it is useful in most matchups due to inducing status, its bulk, and and paraflinch, there is no matchup where it is the best mon on Fairy for the job, apart from the sparsely used Grass type. Therefore, it fits better in the same rank as Alolatales and Ribombee.

Gardevoir S -> A (Fairy)
Coming to the most controversial nom, (and likeliest to get shot down), I don't feel Gardevoir is as necessary to Fairy like Mimikyu and Hatterene are, enough to knock it to A rank with Grimmsnarl in my eyes. Between Scarf Alolatales and Webs, as well as secondary speed control in the form of Sucker Punch on Grimm, Sneak on Mimikyu and TR on Hatterene, Scarf Gardevoir has become less important for Fairy teams. Especially against Swift Swim Water, which is undergoing a small decline due to increase of other variants of Water, Ninetales-A can put in work by switching weathers and clicking Freeze Dry. Meanwhile, Hatterene can suffice for the Poison matchup, which is not as easy for Gardevoir regardless due to being choicelocked and SpDef Toxapex being able to pivot into it before switching depending on move (or using Baneful Bunker to get Lefties). As for the other S rank mons, Hatterene is the only way for Fairy teams to keep hazards off (Defog is contradictory to Webs, and no Fairy Spinners), as well as be useful in a myriad of matchups such as Poison, Water, Dragon, and Ice. Meanwhile, Mimikyu's Disguise puts sweepers in check (apart from Kyu-B and Cloy), as well as being crucial in beating a top tier type in Psychic while providing good use in many others. Ghost typing also lets it spinblock to prevent Webs and/or SR from being cleared. I still believe Gardevoir is a great mon, as well as Grimmsnarl, but not as good as Hatterene and Mimikyu.

 

[roxie]

Going to dump a plethora of noms here, that better fit changes in meta. (s/o DugZa for help)

Togekiss A -> B (Fairy)
Whenever I find myself building Fairy teams, I find Grimmsnarl indispensable in comparison to Togekiss, which is an afterthought until I come to the latter stages of the team. Togekiss is constrained by only being able to run four out of five important moves, those being Air Slash, Fire coverage, Nasty Plot, TWave, and Roost. While it is useful in most matchups due to inducing status, its bulk, and and paraflinch, there is no matchup where it is the best mon on Fairy for the job, apart from the sparsely used Grass type. Therefore, it fits better in the same rank as Alolatales and Ribombee.

I find Bulky Togekiss pretty cool whether your running it with webs or screens or both. I think it provides extra backbone for the Steel (because steel is just a difficult matchup and the combination of Togekiss + Grimmsnarl can help beat common threats! Togekiss being one of the only reliable Fairy type Pokemon that can setup and use a fire move (Nasty Plot + Flamethrower). Hatterne is kinda wack running CM + Mystic Fire (because it helps greatly in the Poison Matchup). But looking at what are in B-ranked(Clefable which isnt that great, Alolan Ninetales which is amazing for veil but has its flaws, and Ribombee that webs/spores and instantly dies) I do not exactly feel like Togekiss belongs in that category. More of a personal opinion i guess, I agree with all your other nominations but I feel like Togekiss plays a similar role of importance like Grimmsnarl.

Silvally (Rock): UR > C
Probably a controversial suggestion to jump from unranked to C, but Silvally does bring a lot to Rock teams more than just an outside niche. To note - it's the fastest Rock type after Terrakion, with decent all around bulk, and the highest SpA with access to an extensive movepool to boot. This allows you to run Grass Pledge or TBolt to hit Water types and even Draco to hit Dracovish with a chance to OHKO. U-turn and Defog add to versatility. Altogether, I think Silvally brings something new and valuable to the pretty lackluster Rock Monotype.

Silvally (Rock): UR > UR
No one replied to this, but Silvally forms are incredible wack in monotype. You don't need U-turn and Defog on your rock team, you have a combinations of Sticky Web, Spikes, and Stealth Rock, so why would you defog it away? I applaud silvally on it having an amazing selection of moves but, that singular typing and its terrible speed is the downside. Rock can get rid of Dracovish's Scarf with Knock Off or just use the trick room sample. Rock is a hit or miss but the main pokemon are Tyranitar, Solrcok, Shuckle, Coalassal, Terrakion , and Barbacle~

 

[juleocesar]

Been playing Psychic and Fairy quite some time, going to share some thoughts:

(D->C)

Gallade [Psychic]: In my opinion it should be ranked higher. C rank would be a fitting spot for it, it is a decent wallbreaker. It makes handling Drapion/Skuntank easier and can put some work vs many Dark types in general. Tyranitar has really high special defense so it is hard for the fairies (hatterene and gardevoir) to check it out mostly. It also gets Knock Off which is pretty solid in the Psychic mirror and can put some work in Ghost along w/ Shadow Sneak, so definitely it is not that niche like Bronzong or Mr.Mime-Galar. Being alongside Xatu and Orbeetle is what better fits this Pokemon in my opinion.

I find Bulky Togekiss pretty cool whether your running it with webs or screens or both. I think it provides extra backbone for the Steel (because steel is just a difficult matchup and the combination of Togekiss + Grimmsnarl can help beat common threats! Togekiss being one of the only reliable Fairy type Pokemon that can setup and use a fire move (Nasty Plot + Flamethrower). Hatterne is kinda wack running CM + Mystic Fire (because it helps greatly in the Poison Matchup). But looking at what are in B-ranked(Clefable which isnt that great, Alolan Ninetales which is amazing for veil but has its flaws, and Ribombee that webs/spores and instantly dies) I do not exactly feel like Togekiss belongs in that category. More of a personal opinion i guess, I agree with all your other nominations but I feel like Togekiss plays a similar role of importance like Grimmsnarl.

2nd this, since I agree with Roxiee. Floss nominations were all pretty good except for Togekiss, which I'll explain down below why I disagree. Fairy doesn't have that many options to begin with, and is one of the most important Steel checks that the type has. Specs Togekiss is also a super underrated set it can run that can beat Toxapex more reliably, as well as being able to 2HKO Corviknight: (do note that Gardevoir cannot beat Corviknight as Mirror Armor drops down Gardevoir's special attack when using Mystical Fire). Also important to note that Togekiss can safely revenge kill Aegislash, which's something that both Hatterene and Gardevoir struggles to do. Finally, Specs Ancient Power is probably the best shot you have against Fire, it does a lot of damage and if you get that 20% allstat boost, it is really hard for Fire to win. Not saying you should be relying on the boost but the move itself paired with Specs is pretty reliable on that matchup. You can get a couple of uses especially behind screens, so i'd say you would be getting that boost more often than not. Therefore, I believe Togekiss should remain A, especially through the comparison argument, since it is much better than the Pokemon sitting at B (Alola-Ninetales and Ribombee are much less necessary since they don't offer anything vs important matchups like Steel).

 

[Floss]

I find Bulky Togekiss pretty cool whether your running it with webs or screens or both. I think it provides extra backbone for the Steel (because steel is just a difficult matchup and the combination of Togekiss + Grimmsnarl can help beat common threats! Togekiss being one of the only reliable Fairy type Pokemon that can setup and use a fire move (Nasty Plot + Flamethrower). Hatterne is kinda wack running CM + Mystic Fire (because it helps greatly in the Poison Matchup). But looking at what are in B-ranked(Clefable which isnt that great, Alolan Ninetales which is amazing for veil but has its flaws, and Ribombee that webs/spores and instantly dies) I do not exactly feel like Togekiss belongs in that category. More of a personal opinion i guess, I agree with all your other nominations but I feel like Togekiss plays a similar role of importance like Grimmsnarl.

Replying to this first, I can see your reasoning about why Togekiss is good, but I feel Alolatales and Ribombee are more important than you make out to be. Webs is pretty important as a form of speed control for Fairy in numerous matchups, such as the likes of Ghost, Ice and Dragon, while Alolatales can set up Veil and put in a lot of work in the Water MU. Dropping Togekiss to B rank places it in a more appropriate rank, in my opinion, but doesn't take away from it being a good mon regardless. Grimm is versatile and can act as either support, or good as a sweeper with Bulk Up (the preferred set right now), and is very good in important matchups like Ghost and Steel as a couple of examples, so it outclasses Toge in my eyes.

2nd this, since I agree with Roxiee. Floss nominations were all pretty good except for Togekiss, which I'll explain down below why I disagree. Fairy doesn't have that many options to begin with, and is one of the most important Steel checks that the type has. Specs Togekiss is also a super underrated set it can run that can beat Toxapex more reliably, as well as being able to 2HKO Corviknight: (do note that Gardevoir cannot beat Corviknight as Mirror Armor drops down Gardevoir's special attack when using Mystical Fire). Also important to note that Togekiss can safely revenge kill Aegislash, which's something that both Hatterene and Gardevoir struggles to do. Finally, Specs Ancient Power is probably the best shot you have against Fire, it does a lot of damage and if you get that 20% allstat boost, it is really hard for Fire to win. Not saying you should be relying on the boost but the move itself paired with Specs is pretty reliable on that matchup. You can get a couple of uses especially behind screens, so i'd say you would be getting that boost more often than not. Therefore, I believe Togekiss should remain A, especially through the comparison argument, since it is much better than the Pokemon sitting at B (Alola-Ninetales and Ribombee are much less necessary since they don't offer anything vs important matchups like Steel).

Switching Toxapex into Togekiss sounds like trouble when you consider that the most common sets have either TWave or NP at the least, and therefore it isn't the best switchin on either Poison or Water since it can only click Scald back. Grimmsnarl is another mon that can safely revenge kill Aegislash, which is being counted out, and Specs Ancient Power Togekiss isn't close to being the best option against Fire teams, considering that Scarf Charizard outspeeds even +1 Togekiss and deals significant damage (calcs can be found at end of post). Not to mention that Grimm is really the only mon that can reliably set up screens for Togekiss against Fire (Alolatales can't set up due to Torkoal switching in), which means you're running a worse set for Grimmsnal as well. Said screens can also be swapped over with the use of Court Change, not to mention Incineroar can also take a +1 Specs Ancient Power and retaliate. Saying that 'A-Tales and Ribombee are much less necessary since they don't offer anything vs important matchups like Steel' is honestly laughable, since Excadrill outspeeds everything outside of Webs (and leaves you resorting to mons that Exca can just switch out on without much of an issue like Primarina) while Alolatales can set Veil for a mon like Grimmsnarl to set up behind. Also, the aforementioned mons help in every MU against good types apart from perhaps Fire, and Poison for Ribombee (Webs easily defogged).

Calcs

252 SpA Solar Power Charizard Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Togekiss in Sun: 259-306 (83.2 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Solar Power Charizard Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Togekiss in Sun: 316-373 (101.6 - 119.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Solar Power Charizard Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Togekiss in Sun through Light Screen: 158-186 (50.8 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Solar Power Charizard Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Togekiss in Sun through Light Screen: 129-153 (41.4 - 49.1%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO
+1 252+ SpA Choice Specs Togekiss Ancient Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Incineroar: 236-278 (59.8 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Incineroar Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Togekiss in Sun: 229-270 (73.6 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Incineroar Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Togekiss in Sun through Reflect: 114-135 (36.6 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

[roxie]

Replying to this first, I can see your reasoning about why Togekiss is good, but I feel Alolatales and Ribombee are more important than you make out to be. Webs is pretty important as a form of speed control for Fairy in numerous matchups, such as the likes of Ghost, Ice and Dragon, while Alolatales can set up Veil and put in a lot of work in the Water MU. Dropping Togekiss to B rank places it in a more appropriate rank, imo. Grimm is versatile and can act as either support, or good as a sweeper with Bulk Up (the preferred set right now).



Switching Toxapex into Togekiss sounds like trouble when you consider that the most common sets have either TWave or NP at the least, and therefore it isn't the best switchin on either Poison or Water since it can only click Scald back. Grimmsnarl is another mon that can safely revenge kill Aegislash, which is being counted out, and Specs Ancient Power Togekiss isn't close to being the best option against Fire teams, considering that Scarf Charizard outspeeds even +1 Togekiss and deals significant damage (calcs can be found at end of post). Not to mention that Grimm is really the only mon that can reliably set up screens for Togekiss against Fire (Alolatales can't set up due to Torkoal switching in), which means you're running a worse set for Grimmsnal as well. Said screens can also be swapped over with the use of Court Change, not to mention Incineroar can also take a +1 Specs Ancient Power and retaliate. Saying that 'A-Tales and Ribombee are much less necessary since they don't offer anything vs important matchups like Steel' is honestly laughable, since Excadrill outspeeds everything outside of Webs (and leaves you resorting to mons that Exca can just switch out on without much of an issue like Primarina) while Alolatales can set Veil for a mon like Grimmsnarl to set up behind. Also, the aforementioned mons help in every MU against good types apart from perhaps Fire, and Poison for Ribombee (Webs easily defogged).

agreed, well i can see both sides on why it should stay and go down a rank, I'll test fairy out more following the ban

 

[Havens]

Kyurem-B (both types) S -> UR: Self explanitory

Kyurem (Dragon/Ice) D -> B: pretty much necessitated because of the ban, regular Kyurem's coverage is still good and its wallbreaking is still great enough to where this is the best possible substitute; they're the same mon p much besides the extra 40 attack and lack of Fusion Bolt.

fuck