Suspect SS NFE Suspect #5 - Thunderstruck

[Jett]

Hey frens, the SS NFE Council have decided to test Pikachu.
​

Suspect Test Reasoning:

While it looks cute, appearances can be deceiving; having already been banned once, this powerhouse has once again found itself on the chopping block. Pikachu has been a noteworthy Pokemon in the metagame for the entirety of the Crown Tundra due it having a signature item, Light Ball, doubling both its offenses. With a near-perfect movepool, Pikachu can run two very strong sets: FakeSpeed and Mixed Attacker. Access to both Extreme Speed and Fake Out makes Pikachu one of the premier revenge killer in NFE, and allows it to provide immense pressure even against faster Pokemon such as Kadabra and Raboot, as well as setup sweepers. This combination of moves has allowed Pikachu to claim the title of most threatening and reliable cleaner in the metagame as there is little counterplay once foes are in range its priority. Pikachu is very self sufficient with both Knock Off and Volt Switch in its arsenal, which are excellent for crippling its common switch-ins like Tangela and pivot out of its bad matchups. These tools help Pikachu matchup favourably against bulkier and slower teams which often struggle to keep up with its momentum and hate switching into its powerful Knock Offs. Pikachu is also one of the premier abusers of Spikes and Toxic Spikes, and entry hazard focussed teams can be difficult to stop largely due to the Pikachu's potency when residual damage is wearing down its checks.

Mixed Attacker sets forgo Fake Out but make great use of its great Special Attack with coverage moves such as Surf and Grass Knot. Once Pikachu has removed the Eviolite of an opposing Ground-type such as Piloswine and Marshtomp, it can tear them apart with Surf or Grass Knot respectively. Many teams in the metagame rely on a combination of a Ground- and a Grass-type in order to defensively check FakeSpeed Pikachu, but this combination cannot reliably check Mixed Pikachu. Pikachu can also opt for Thunderbolt for more immediate power for its STAB move, with invested Pikachu being able to 2HKO offensive Tangela variants, one of its most reliable switch-ins, once it has been Knocked Off.

However, Pikachu's defenses leave a lot to be desired with most neutral attacks KOing it comfortably; it is often reliant on having teammates to switch in safely, as it can only find switch-ins against attacks it resists or is immune to. If Pikachu fails to KO a target or does not pivot out itself, it is very likely that it will be KOed making it delicate to position. Entry hazards are a bane to Pikachu as it often wants to spam Volt Switch, especially when facing against a Tangela. Speaking of Tangela, it is extremely common in the current metagame, and very splashable, serving as one of the best long term Pikachu counters that does not bleed momentum, given that it invests into its Special Defense. Ghost-types such as Drakloak and Choice Scarf Lampent make for reliable offensive checks as their Ghost-typing lets them ignore Pikachu's dual priority. Pikachu is also useful for keeping several strong offensive threats such as Kadabra and Galarian Mr. Mime in check, as these Pokemon already have few offensive answers due to the mediocrity of Choice Scarf users in NFE.

With that being said, the council feels that Pikachu is deserving of a suspect test.

Suspect Test Information:
The voting requirements are a minimum GXE of 75 with at least 25 games played. For this suspect test, a new account starting with NFECHU, such as “NFECHU Jett” must be used to qualify, as we will be using the NFE Ladder. The suspect will end in around 2 weeks time, on the 24th May 11:59pm EDT (UTC -4), and then we will put up the voting thread in the Blind Voting subforum.

This thread will also be used for posting your voter identification screenshot. Make sure when doing this, you show your alt has met these requirements, as well as proof that the alt belongs to you. When uploading large images, please use a HIDE tag.

When posting in this thread, please keep in mind these rules:
1. No one liners or uninformed posts, unless it is posting that you’ve met the requirements for voting on Pikachu.
2. No discussion on other potential suspects or the suspect process
3. Be respectful
Your post will be deleted and possibly infracted if you fail to follow them.

If you have any questions about this suspect, feel free to ask any of the NFE council team. Have fun laddering!

Tagging Kris to setup suspect and announcement on PS ladder games. Thanks in advance

 

[lepton]

first, ok run, got a bit lucky in a few games but we take those
really not in a mental state to write anything about pika, maybe later, no promises

 

[Vertigo]

playing while ladder is dead = not fun
i haven't seen a lot of mouses, mr mime galar was however on almost every team i faced
undecided, will see upcoming reactions

 

[Fragments]

Shoutouts pileo for having the same name idea as me

Thoughts on pikachu: Before laddering I was leaning toward ban, pikachu is obviously insanely strong for the meta and the niche combo of Fake Out + Extreme Speed means outspeeding it isn't an option either half the time. But, after laddering, I'm kinda more on the fence now cause I think there are some decent checks and counters to pika in nfe. Mons like piloswine, gabite, tangela, ferroseed, etc are reliable switch-ins, and then you have mons like drakolak and scarf lampent that are faster and immune to its priority to threaten it offensively. It's still a very centralizing mon, which is why I'm still not totally committed to do not ban, but I think a compelling case can be made for either side.

Btw I'm literally writing this at 5:30am so there is a very slight chance nothing I just said made sense

 

[tf]

confirming as nfechu tf

 

[Shing]

My ladder experience was losing to my own teams, seeing ho3n's sample, and meeting the same players. Just as expected tbh.

Teams I build and used with this account. S/O for Greybaum and Rav3ndan for inspiration from UMPL Week 3.



Just wanna say I'll lean into a ban and I'm not changing my mind on that. I'll acknowledge although the Pikachu's presence isn't completely unhealthy. I just think that's not enough to consider me not banning it. I'll go more in-depth on what I think does do in NFE right now from both sides, but bias ahead more against it.

Wall of Text

Pikachu holds an eye against every breaker such as Magmar, Wartortle, Mime-G, and Kadabra, and against annoying archetypes such as HO and Ivysaur on Sun. Without that, the breakers have much more freedom without being forced to lose momentum by Pikachu, and in that sense becomes more difficult to deal with. Pikachu's flaws are also more noticeable in the meta. There are limited switch-ins that Pikachu can't get in, and there are many playstyles that are built in a way that Pikachu can't ever switch in. Pikachu doesn't matter sometimes in a match if the opponent is able to keep their pokemon healthy enough. So if you're able to keep Thwackey/Piloswine/Gurdurr healthy enough and have their Eviolite, Pikachu fails its job if you're above 40% e.g, which makes Pikachu less important in the early mid-game. And I've always hated this reasoning, but hazards are still strong and particular spikes/t-spikes does chip Pikachu and limits his switch-ins potential, with Ferroseed/Gabite has the ability to even worn down. Hazard removal can be so skewed and matchup depended so Pikachu is definitely affected by it in a long term. Pikachu can't also fit in every type of team, in comparison to like Golbat, Tangela, and Electabuzz, which is fair enough.

Now the reason why I'll always on to ban it is the skewed defensive counterplay, and almost no existing offensive counterplay. Almost all the defensive mons/cores are screwed by the lack of their recovery. Like if you've lost your Eviolite and you're below 50% say goodbye to your pokemon. Ferroseed is dealt with another way, with 3 Knocks kills it or reading their switch-ins and use volt switch and some rarer option to clean it up. Tangela is the best counter, but even that isn't able to stop volt spam; enabling switch-ins such as breakers or Koffing as a way to stop regenerator. And there are some Pikachus that can opt for Tbolt and beat Tangela as long they aren't spdef, even tho it's a rare set. Reminds me that Pikachu is able to customize their sets and EVs. Volt/Knock/ESpeed is all he needs, so the 4th slot can be up to your performance. Fake Out is just the best option obviously. Being able to defend against Pikachu you'll either need two defensive cores or abuse Tangela, which will still not stop PIkachu from doing its job. For the offensive counterplay: Keep your pokemon healthy enough or forget damaging it. Ghost mons such as Scarf Lampent/Gastly and Drakloak are hard to fit in a team and leaves you open to more matchups. Thwackey, Gurdurr, and Piloswine need to be healthy as possible, which is extremely difficult since all of them are affected by hazards and lacks recovery, so if you manage to outlast and worn them down, Pikachu will clean them up from 33% with Eviolite and 50% w/o Eviolite. The best offensive counterplay is unironically your own faster Pikachu, which is a legitimate option if you want to invalidate faster Golbat. Pikachu will still do a ton of damage regardless of what.

From the teambuilding perspective, I find it difficult for both sides. Pikachu isn't so flexible to fit in teams that accept it as pokemon who won't make much impact on the early game with difficulties switching in. The defensive cores are relevant enough to play against the other matchups too so it's not as a one-sided matchup. However, building teams and dealing with Pikachu is such a pain in the ass. You're either forced to use the same limited defensive cores or sometimes having 3/4th of your members be able to tank and threaten it back. It doesn't help that Pikachu's one of the best T-Spikes abusers, which is an archetype that will win matches if you don't have any ways to deal with it. Dealing with Tspikes itself is a whole another story lmao. Pikachu can also be built on in a lot of playstyles, getting rid of the offensive checks or enable breakers opportunities and cause havoc.

While I see Pikachu has its healthy attributes, it can also be used against it. Getting rid of the wallbreakers and then enable opportunities for wallbreakers which also goes against the healthy part of Pikachu. So it's clear to me that I'll ban Pikachu no matter what.

 

[hayedenn]

confirming as nfechu baddie

team i used, not gonna leak it since UMPL is still ongoing but u can find a half-paste of it from my week 2 analysis here

My thoughts on Pika are pretty unremarkable tbh. I find it a really difficult mon to switch into defensively, due to the immense offensive presence it has with Knock + ESpeed along with its pivoting ability w/ Volt Switch and it's wide variety of coverage moves it can run, whether it be Surf, Grass Knot, or even something like Focus Punch which I ran into once on the ladder which was pretty nifty. I think Pika's role is important in the tier as it helps keep broken defensive mons in check along with powerful offensive stuff such as Kadabra and Ivysaur, but I don't think that's a good enough reason to keep it around. It's just too difficult to consistently prepare for, and the only true hard check to Pika is Tangela which isn't too difficult to pressure with the five other mons on your team. It's gotta gooooooooooo

me when my koffing dies after having only set one layer of tspikes and nothing else

 

[Jett]

the above team is good
not my ideal choice for a suspect, but ban dumb mouse anyways, may edit thoughts later ~ uwu

 

[The Strap]

-Strap

 

[xavgb]

Team used: https://pokepast.es/c03540396b76f574 (good team but needs long games and gets p boring due to the nature of the offensive core).

A little conflicted on this suspect mostly because I would have rather seen Kadabra or one of the other threats on the chopping block, but I'm leaning towards ban right now.

 

[LoSconosciuto]

 

[S1nn0hC0nfirm3d]

reqs

I cheesed with sun: https://pokepast.es/29139b3da41abb64

Ban because Pikachu enables some of the strongest, hardest-to-check playstyles while still being overwelmingly good and centralizing in itself. Its priority, coverage, Knock Off support, and pivoting is just too strong on a wallbreaker, and these probs pretty much negate its frailty if you're in a good position by using priority / pivoting / KOing the target.

Pikachu fulfills like 5 roles at once while also being one of the strongest mons in the meta. It's got to go. But just don't take my word for it...

"No one m[o]n should have all that power." Kanye West, 2021, on Pikachu.

 

[Mr.Bossaru]

no ban boys

 

[Toto]

Ban gang

 

[velvet]

finding games took forever

 

[saba]

s/o to velvet for the team and Waves for hanging around

 

[Beraldo]

This tier is so fun

 

[Simbo]

S/o saba1111 for the team
Can someone tag on disc when voting goes up cheers, forgot to vote on bat.

 

[Rav3]

Pika gotta go, then a whole lot of other stuff could follow

 

[Dorron]

All my games ruined by Pikachu (and Cosmic Power Clef), I know what to vote

 

[DNNP]

Confirming as NFECHU Runs devin

Reqs

 

[idea]

Confirming as nfechu apathetic

like 5-10 of these games were against opponents who either forfeited before turn 5 or had only one mon :(

 

[OranBerryBlissey10]

- fakespeed is very low risk while still able to pick off mons at high health
- very few of its answers have good recovery
- gknot sets, while slightly losing their general efficiency, straight up beat most of its common answers, so you're forced to either use gabite or use an answer that doesn't block volt

pikachu is unhealthy due to being unnaturally constraining both in games and on the builder, even if it's not conventionally broken

 

[Animesh_]

Confirming as NFECHU Star

 

[in the hills]

Pikachu was banned following the suspect vote!
Voting thread: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ss-nfe-pikachu-voting.3684954/