Resource SS NU Viability Ranking Thread

roxiee

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:ss/tangela: UR -> C
Wanted to bring Tangela to the mix because of its amazing utility in Knock Off, Sleep Powder, Leech Seed, and Stun Spore. This is greatly outclassed by Vileplume, however, when building around more specially defensive Stealth Rockers like Galarian Stunfisk and Copperajah in particular, those aren't the brightest Pokemon for checking general physical attackers. Teambuilding wise I think this works as you're doing something like Tangela + Galarian Stunfisk + Drapion or Toxicroak (to absorb Toxic Spikes like Vileplume).

:ss/vileplume: :ss/dragalge:
Vileplume moving up is amazing as Growth pretty much soloes a lot of team structures. You can use Goodra to prevent it from recovering but Goodra really hates the Sludge Bomb poison on the switch and Dragalge is something that hard checks Vileplume iirc. Speaking of Dragalge, Finchinator has recently been testing Choice Specs Dragalge and honestly, it's STAB and coverage in Shadow Ball for Bronzong and Focus Blast for Copperajah makes it pretty dominating against defensive Pokemon. No one has nominated it for something lower but just thought I'd discuss it since I mentioned it~
 

Togkey

NEFARIOUS ACTS
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Trying to not make an ugly wall of text, here's some changes I think should be made to the current VR;

:Tsareena:
Although not as vocal as Rabia about it, I've been on the Tsareena train for months now, having many teams with the mon dating back to April. Simply being a Rapid Spin user is enough to put it on the map in a metagame strapped for easy hazard control outside of Xatu, and Rapid Spin isn't the only thing this queen can do. Boasting a huge attack stat that nearly compares to monsters like Golurk and a rainbow of a movepool, including the likes of Knock Off, U-Turn, Triple Axel, and High Jump Kick, Tsareena can threaten or cripple anything staring it down, or simply U-Turn out, making it a very flexible Swiss Army knife of a mon. Tsareena's merits go beyond offenses though; with defensive stats almost identical to Dhelmise, a pure Grass typing, and a great utility movepool in Rapid Spin, Synthesis, Taunt, and Aromatherapy, Tsareena can go offensive, defensive, or a mix of the two depending on how its needed on the team. Tsareena also has a great speed tier, blitzing past the most common breakers, as well as a useful ability that blocks all priority, such as First Impression from Sirfetch'd.

:Salazzle:
I've been spamming tf out of this Pokemon and honestly it feels so unfair sometimes; you nearly OHKO the entire tier at +2, and the Pokemon who aren't OHKO'd are forced to come in earlier in the game only to get their item removed or statused with Toxic regardless of their typing. Using a move to heal HP or shrug of Toxic will get Encored and pivoting around means it can throw up a Substitute. Obviously it can't run all of these sets at the same time but they're all just examples of how Salazzle is a "glass cannon" that can circumvent its frailty using its slew of powerful utility moves until its ready to blow your whole team up. Salazzle is also the second fastest Pokemon in the tier ignoring Choice Scarf users, most of which struggle to revenge you anyway without locking into an extremely exploitable move such as Passimian Rock Slide or Rotom-Mow Thunderbolt, and Talonflame cannot Burn or Poison you and will fail to OHKO you with Brave Bird, while nearly being OHKO'd by Sludge Wave after BB recoil. Salazzle's typing also allows it to pivot in surprisingly often, especially with Encore; pretty easily coming in on Vileplume or Sylveon, and even switching into stuff like Mantine Defogging or Drapion Swords Dancing thanks to Encore. although obviously that's risky. I just think Salazzle's ability to set itself up for late game sweeps while also immediately applying pressure even against teams with Vaporeon or Diancie is insane and I know its very easy for something to go wrong and Salazzle accidentally gets OHKO'd by a light breeze but its high risk, even higher reward.

*Edit: I forgot to mention that Salazzle can run Dragon Pulse to break through Goodra, Guzzlord, and especially Dragalge who give it a hard time otherwise

:Goodra:
There's no reason for this thing to be any lower than Dragalge. Goodra's presence at preview is easily the scariest thing in the tier at the moment with a colorful movepool and the stats and speed tier to properly utilize it. Nothing can wall this thing until the sets been fully scouted. Sylveon and Diancie get nuked by Iron Tail, Bronzong gets torched by Fire Blast or Earthquake, Vaporeon and Mantine get rocked by either Thunder(bolt) or Power Whip, and lets not forget about its powerful Draco's. Goodra's Sap Sipper also grants it entry in on Vileplume and also prevents it from healing with Strength Sap. Along with free entry on Vileplume, Goodra's stats and typing let it pivot into Pokemon like Rotom-Mow, Mantine, Salazzle, Blastoise, and Starmie with relative ease and start dishing out insane amounts of damage. Not only does Goodra have great mixed offensive stats and an incredible SDef stat, but Goodra's speed also goes higher than many of NU's wallbreakers, even the faster stuff like Tyrantrum and Exploud. Goodra's insane diversity in item and move choice, along with its ability to consistently switch into and threaten out many top tier threats and also hit the entire tier Super-Effectively give it an easy A+ imo.

:Vileplume:
As it turns out, Poison types and Grass types are both pretty amazing, and Vileplume is a shining example of that. Vileplume can pretty much beat any Physical attacker 1 on 1, including type disadvantages such as Talonflame and Copperajah, thanks to Strength Sap being a broken move. Outside of its walling capabilities, Vileplume has a pretty wide array of set variation, and although they mostly preform the same role, each different set can be used to help synergize with its teammates. Infestation + Leech Seed sets can completely and unexpectedly remove a Pokemon (that could otherwise take on Plume) from the game, such as Guzzlord, Escavalier, or Garbodor. Growth sets can set up very easily on bulkier build mons like Sylveon, Vaporeon, Diancie, or Mudsdale and muscle through fat even with a +1 boost at a time. Plume can also aid an allied breaker by removing opposing Leftovers and Boots with Corrosive Gas, or statusing opponents with Sleep Powder, Stun Spore, or its own ability Effect Spore, which also punishes reckless U-Turn spam and common breakers like Sirfetch'd. Even Strength Sap blockers like Xatu and Goodra hate taking Sludge Bombs so stopping this thing from doing massive damage and spreading status everywhere is very difficult.

:Diancie:
Diancie has risen a lot in usage lately because of its insane role compression and set diversity. A Knock Off resist, Stealth Rock setter, Heal Bell user, and a great check to common top tier mons such as Talonflame and Guzzlord is a lot to offer. Diancie also provides more than utility; Diamond Storm + Body Press being able to snowball games very quickly, powerful special attacks/coverage in Moonblast, Power Gem, Meteor Beam, Mystical Fire, and Earth Power, and a flexible speed tier, and moves such as Encore, Calm Mind, and Skill Swap to give it an edge in otherwise unfavorable MU's such as Snorlax and Vaporeon. Diancie has proven itself to be a phenomenal addition to many teams and its great set diversity means it can fit itself onto any team. The 4x weakness to Steel can be a pain although Diancie's bulk allows it to take stuff like Goodra Iron Tail anyway and Steel types must be weary of an Earth Power or Mystical Fire, even uninvested.

* I may add to this in the future before the next VR update, but these were the main changes I wanted to mention.
 

poh

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->B+

Initially i was very excited when this mon dropped. While it does have an ok matchup vs quite a few popular mons, it still struggles to do what it wants. Doublades issue isn't that it doesnt find setup opportunities but rather its ko potential and susceptibility to being hit due to its poor speed. I think SD needs max speed to rly put in the most work, meaning that you can't use it as your defensive steel type -> building issues. +2 sneak is easily tempered by Talonflame threatning the burn, Heliolisk freely volts on it, Drapion resisting it and crippling in return etc. The main positive that comes from doublade is ofc its typing. Scaring out metagame staples like Diancie, Sylveon, Vileplume (growth + strength sap will likely not beat doublade) while also checking rising star Tauros, Tyrantrum, ID press zong (although shadow ball is 100% an option on it nowadays), Croak and probably some other mons. Elias PSY used Power Herb Solar Blade successfully a couple times to nail checks like Vaporeon and Mudsdale which is rly cool. So yeah it's a cool mon but it has quite a few negatives that almost outweigh its positives so that's why i'd put it in B+.

-> B / B+

Lots of people feared it when it dropped back including myself, unfortunately it hasn't hit the ground running at all. While it still has that gargantuan bulk, the meta is too aggressive for it to rly fulfill its role as a bulky setup mon. It does allow some breathing room in the builder cause it softchecks most special attackers which is def a good thing (mons like Exploud and Salazzle can be very tough to face). Body slam is fairly spammable and getting the para is an extra benefit it gives to your team. The biggest negative must be the free turns it gives when resting up, something that will get you punished with all the great breakers we have. I enjoyed using aoa lax more than the curse sets. It has the movepool to dunk on a lot of defensive mons and it did well.


webs are bad, only meaningful trait it has is a strong liquidation but we have 87 water resists in the tier so :shrug:
what does this thing actually want to do again?
just use blastoise tbh. you also play 5v6 if the oppo has a sylveon or escav
cool mon but man its nearly useless nowadays cause everyone is running itemless mons that resist grass
it either does something or nothing in most games i played with this mon..
 
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edit: forgot steelvally existed, B- rank

edit 2: togkey’s mad at ppl not providing explanations so here’s mine, also mons within tiers aren’t ranked. Also espeon B-.

S rank: tflame is the face of the tier and by far the single best mon. Kinda comparable to flygon in that it compresses a lot of roles, defogger, status, fast pivot, physical blanket check.

S- rank: mow and zong may have been S tier in the past, but not anymore. The rise of goodra, plume, lax’s arrival, dragalge, guzzy make mow have a harder time making progress on its own. Scarf is very consistent, and bluffing it is also awesome, but I don’t feel that this mon is the beast everyone makes it out to be. Zong doesn’t appreciate the rise of tflame and xatu, and I haven’t seen IDP in a VERY long time, which was the main reason it rose to S in the first place. For plume’s reasoning read my post from a few days ago.

A+ rank: lazzle is nasty, read togkey’s post above. The three dragons are all bulky, strong. Dragalge progresses by spreading status, tspikes and slow pivoting. Guzz forces progress with status and knock, can also act as a phaser. Goodra is fast, strong, bulky, has a very colorful movepool. Diancie is the best rocker, can also act as a cleric or an emergency wincon with diamondpress. Can also run setup cheese. Xatu is the best form of hazard control in the tier. Drap forces progress with knock and is threatening with SD late game. Muds is the best physical check and can also act as your rocker.

A rank: Mie good breaker, sylv best cleric, escav best special tank, lurk and duck good phys breakers, passimian second best scarfer and best fighting, raja still does raja things, just not as good.

A- rank: tauros/lax insane breakers, helio water immune and good pivot. Stoise shits on rmts meta, vap is vap, nothing is sexier than sexploud’s boomburst.

Highlight mons from lower tiers:
NDD: read my posts from RW and earlier in this thread.
Doub: Insane phys tank, sd can be threating but doesn’t get to sd much imo, hard to build creatively around.
Intel: specs is RIDICULOUS
GFisk: actually good mow check, happy slice?
Espeon: read intel section, cant pivot but acts as pseudo hazard control so in the same rank.
 
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this might help for tier list making -> https://tiermaker.com/create/ss-nu-viability-rankings-list-1338156
ss-nu-viability-rankings-list-1338156-1636344052.png


- mowtom is still a clear s- mon imo. unblockable pivoting in a tier with tons of breakers is so good, and aside from that it's an excellent breaker/overall nuisance. great defensive utility and splashability are also great
- lazzle is so amazing, what togkey said ^
- garb is still super goated mon. spikes checks all the brokens and you actually have decent longevity/bulk to outlast a lot of stuff. froslass is epic as a spiker too but imo it's really only an ho-type mon.
- snorlax is so underwhelming, or more specifically, curselax. maybe i need to try out more offensive sets idk but snorlax just isnt doing it for me
- was debating on putting glast in ur lol. such a bad mon and sees no usage anywhere. checks are abundant wherever you go, super slow, difficult to build with, just bleh
 
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adding descriptions at Togkey's behest:
Screen Shot 2021-11-07 at 11.18.26 PM.png


S
The best of the best. Reserved for Pokemon who shape and define the NU metagame and are a clear-cut above the rest of the tier. These Pokemon are typically very powerful offensive threats that are difficult to prepare for and/or are phenomenal support and defensive threats that provide significant utility or defensive potential, respectively. Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.

-----

A
Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame and can perform well against most play styles, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently. Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time. Pokemon in this rank are also known to define the play styles they fit on or are easy to add on any given team, while being able to carry their weight nearly every match.

-----

B
Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job, are setup bait for dangerous sweepers, or often give too many free turns. Pokemon who are partially outperformed or struggle with taking on the Pokemon in the A or S Rank, but are otherwise dangerous in their own right and aren't difficult to fit on teams, may also fall into this category.

-----

C
Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective in the right setting, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks. Pokemon in this rank typically require more extensive support, struggle performing against the Pokemon ranked above, and are difficult to fit on teams.

:salazzle: I feel like salazzle's honestly pretty overrated. adaptations like heatproof zong (and a decline in copperajah) and sleep powder plume show how the few mons that seem to let salazzle in through their typing can deter it; it isnt an unusual sight to see it lose 1v1 to 5 mons on the opponent's team, leaving it very dependent on teammates to do the heavy work of chipping down the opposing team before it can do much. that doesnt get into the prominence of the dragons: dragalge, goodra, and guzzlord all handle it well and live even a +2 dragon pulse. sash is really really good on HOs but I think it's just not that good as a wallbreaker on bulky offenses (except in S1nn0hC0nfirm3d's hands)

:starmie: kinda fell off ngl... talonflame being the biggest fire-type in the meta really hurts it since you get a lot less opportunities - trying to bring it in on fire types means u take 50+ from u-turn. i think it's just a less effective core shredder than goodra.

:escavalier: is very, very good; there's really nothing that fully Counters it and impedes it from making progress. think more people should use it, though you need to cover for its weakness to breakers with fire-type coverage
 
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S
The best of the best. Reserved for Pokemon who shape and define the NU metagame and are a clear-cut above the rest of the tier. These Pokemon are typically very powerful offensive threats that are difficult to prepare for and/or are phenomenal support and defensive threats that provide significant utility or defensive potential, respectively. Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.

S

Talonflame

S-

Bronzong
Diancie
Rotom-C


A
Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame and can perform well against most play styles, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently. Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time. Pokemon in this rank are also known to define the play styles they fit on or are easy to add on any given team, while being able to carry their weight nearly every match.

A+

Dragalge
Drapion
Golurk
Goodra
Guzzlord
Salazzle
Xatu


A

:copperajah: Copperajah
Escavalier
Mudsdale
Passimian
Sirfetch'd
Starmie
Sylveon
Vileplume

A-



Blastoise
Exploud
Heliolisk
Silvally-Ground
Tauros
Toxicroak
Vaporeon

B
Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job, are setup bait for dangerous sweepers, or often give too many free turns. Pokemon who are partially outperformed or struggle with taking on the Pokemon in the A or S Rank, but are otherwise dangerous in their own right and aren't difficult to fit on teams, may also fall into this category.

B+

:doublade: Doublade
Decidueye
Garbodor
Mantine
:tsareena: Tsareena
Tyrantrum


B

Braviary
Glastrier
Rhydon
Scrafty
:snorlax: Snorlax

B-


Araquanid
Duraludon
Dhelmise
Kingdra
:omastar: Omastar
Palossand
Weezing

C

Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective in the right setting, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks. Pokemon in this rank typically require more extensive support, struggle performing against the Pokemon ranked above, and are difficult to fit on teams.

C+


Aerodactyl
:haunter: Haunter
Ninjask
Silvally-Ghost
Quagsire
:stunfisk-galar:Stunfisk-Galar

C



Druddigon
:ferroseed: Ferroseed
:froslass: Froslass

Gigalith
Inteleon
Indeedee-F
Lycanroc
Magneton
:musharna: Musharna
:pincurchin: Pincurchin
:raichu-alola: Raichu-Alola
:ribombee:
Ribombee
Sandslash
:sceptile: Sceptile
Silvally-Steel
Sneasel
:tangela: Tangela
:thwackey: Thwackey

Togedemaru
:uxie: Uxie

D

Blacklisted. Currently, Pokémon that are NU by usage but that have no competitive viability.

Arcanine
Comfey
:espeon:
Espeon
:zoroark:Zoroark

UR



C -> UR Machamp

Will be adding explanations later.

Edit: explanation time!


Main rises:


:diancie: A stupendous defensive glue in the current metagame. Its fantastic defensive typing, bulk, access to utility moves in Heal Bell and Stealth Rock as well as wide coverage in dual STABS + Earth Power or Mystical Fire makes Diancie a definite standout amongst A+ tier Pokémon, in my opinion. Absolutely up there in terms of teamslot value with the likes of Rotom-Mow and Bronzong, which is why I consider it to be an S- contender. P.S.: offensive sets are also pretty fun, give them a try! From Choice Specs to Rock Polish + Meteor Beam, the diamond can wreck havoc on teams and act as a superb breaker/late game cleaner!

:duraludon: A fantastic offensive Stealth Rocker/pivot with its Eject Pack set or just a straight up breaker with Choice Specs, Duraludon has been seeing quite a tad bit of usage and and a huge increase in viability, both of which should be reflected on the VR.

:escavalier: I think, as of right now, Escavalier stands out as the most potent defensive Steel-type we have in the tier. It is able to blanket check an extremely vast amount of the metagame through its sheer bulk and typing alone and can also just threaten many of the top tiers in SS NU such as Vileplume, Diancie, Sylveon, Dralgage, Bronzong while also threatening potential switch ins such as Talonflame, Vaporeon and Mudsdale with its acess to Knock Off and Toxic.

:garbodor: One of our few Spikers, Garbodor possesses an extremely potent defensive typing and great overall bulk and utility, which, in my opinion, are worth a little shoutout.

:goodra: Goodra is a potent breaker with very few answers! Sometimes you have to dance around it in order to get your check in the field because the slug just has so much coverage! Also, threatening fatter switch ins with Sludge Bomb poisons is always annoying. I see Goodra as a stand out right now and I think it should totally see a rise to the A+ tier.

:passimian: Possibly the best Scarfer in the metagame, Passimian has been on a rise for a while and I think a small rise is absolutely justifiable give how versatile and potent the monkey can be!

:rhydon: An incredibly powerful Pokémon in the current metagame, it is a very potent Stealth Rock option over the likes of Mudsdale and Diancie which can also provide incredible offensive potential. Just plain offensive sets are also pretty cool and underrexplored. I personally think Rhydon

:scrafty: Potent setupper right now! Both Bulk Up and Dragon Dance variants are very solid and should be explored more! Throat Chop + Bulk Up variants are also able to just setup in front of most defensive variants of Sylveon, which is pretty cute, so give it a try, y'all!

:tauros: A veeery strong wallbreaker. I've been preaching about Tauros for a while and have made a few posts about it already, so I don't think there's much I can add right now, but the bull is very solid and should totally be higher on the VR!

:vileplume: A totally metagame-defining Pokémon, Vileplume can be an extremely potent defensive tool when used correctly. With sets ranging from the standard Growth or defensive Leech Seed to new Infestation variants, this flower's viability is blooming right now!

:weezing: A great defensive Poison-type in the current metagame, Weezing is capable of checking a wide range of physical threats and annoying slower, bulkier Pokémon with its access to Taunt and Pain Split. A small little rise for this fellow should be ok!

Other rises

:Golurk: :salazzle:

UR -> Ranked


:ferroseed: A great Spiker with useful defensive typing. On the contrary to what its poor offenses would suggest, Ferroseed is not entirely passive as its access to Leech Seed, Knock Off and even Thunder Wave can punish common switch ins. As for its role, I've found it to be more effective on hyper offensive builds as an emergency check to the likes of Blastoise that can provide entry hazards utility, but it can also put in work in some balances. Definitely a solid pick right now.

:froslass: Decent Spikes lead for hyper offensive playstyles.

:haunter: Great offensive Ghost-type with amazing coverage and breaking potential, saw a tad bit of usage in SCL and Should definitely be more explored.

:musharna: I've been preaching for a while so I won't really flood a lot about Musharna but basically CM + Kee/Grassy Seed go brrr.

:omastar: Shhell Shmashh.

:pincurchin: :raichu-alola: Electric Terrain is niche, but it works!

:stunfisk-galar: SCL's favourite, Stunfisk-Galar provides immense defensive utility by being a Stealth Rock Ground-type Pokémon that isn't weak to Rotom-C's mighty Leaf Storm. Furthermore, access to Sludge Bomb can threaten common entry hazard deterrants such as Xatu with a poison, while its signature move Snap Trap can deal chip to targets and also traps them, allowing a breaker to come in and abuse them.

:tangela: Solid defensive Pokémon, saw some competitive usage and I agree with the sentiment of ranking it.

:thwackey: The setter for the niche but effective Grassy Terrain archetype.

:tsareena: Outstanding glue Pokémon with lots of utility in Rapid Spin, Knock Off, U-Turn and good defensive typing. Furthermore, very high Attack and access to wide coverage allows it to keep up offensive momentum.

:uxie: I've made a thousand posts already, uhh... just go looking for them ig LOL!

Other noms:

:ribombee:

Drops

:bronzong: I just don't think Bronzong is on the same tier as Talonflame in terms of versatility, splashability and utility anymore. But it is still a top tier threat and should be ranked as such!

:copperajah: The elephant has been declining in usage and utility for a while. Right now it is pretty much relegated to the AV set (which struggles with 4MSS) and isn't as much of a threat as it once was with the dominance the likes of Bronzong, Talonflame, Doublade, defensive Guzzlord, Vileplume, Tangela, Passimian, etc.

Other drops
:braviary: :machamp: :ninjask:

BLACKLISTS!

:arcanine: :comfey: :espeon: :zoroark: I just think they're all awful and have no competitive viability in the current SS NU metagame. However, as they're all still NU by usage (sigh), they should be classified as D rank (a.k.a blacklisted).
 
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Elias PSY

Uh...later
is a Top Tiering Contributor
neverused tl 0811.png
Guzz A+*

Rises

A+ -> S-

2nd most used mon in SCL,Xatu is more meta-defining compared to others A+ mons.Not only easy splashable on many teams from balances to HO thanks to his momentum abilities ,he proves to be enough threatening to force rockers carrying specific moves to beat it (shadow ball bronzong,payback mudsdale,power gem diancie or thunder uxie for the niches ones).
But thats doesn't stop now
While the metagame keep adapting to xatu usages,xatu can also easily adapt to his answers.SCL showed offensives sets like cosmic power+weakness policy are also an options to lure theses teams relying on random super effectives coverages to bypass it.Scarfed sets while not very explored yet also got potential combining xatu defensive traits in magic bounce+trick,good offensive stats and outspeeding the 2 common scarfers in passimian and rotom-mow.

B+ -> A+

If his fire weakness prevents it to fullfully check fairys,Esca is good at making progress while he doesn't has a lot of safe ins.Threaten the entire metagame with knock+toxic,easily justifiable on teams as a good check to the newcomers snorlax and doublade,well knowed defensive utility vs most special attackers and benefit from competition in bronzong and copperajah being less used.

A -> A+

Combination of high defensive presence (in special side at least),perfect coverage and flexibility on items covering his issues (hazard weakness ,easily revenge killable,lack of power,want pivoting vs special walls) made Goodra on top of NU's wallbreakers .Like xatu he can easily adapt to meta trends (expert belt iron tail actually doing good vs fairies atm) and always found utility in game.Less heatproof zongs since ground-vally hype play in his favor.Sap sipper is also an huge point when vileplume keep rising in usages.


A - -> A+

Speaking of deadly flower . . .There is good chance your team loses to leech seed plume if they don't carry goodra or our own vileplume.Thanks to corrosive gas and leech seed ,vileplume isn't walled by steels (there's even infestation sets who get interest to trap non-SD escavalier and bronzong) and thus will force a lot of switch and spread status and removes items ,removes mons . . . .Others options like sleep powder and aromatherapy are also viable Will forces at least two mons to keep it in check (just putting a standard talonflame doesn't work).

B+ -> A

Putting tauros in the same rank as Starmie . Both are in the same viability level as breakers,they both get limited switch-ins and interesting defensive traits .While starmie get recovery to easy come on defensive mons without risk for high reward,Tauros is let prone to be revenge killed by prioritys and recoil.

B- ->B

Fast rhydon benefit from new drops while also bypassing xatu and sporting higher offensive abilities than mudsdale and keep checking tyrantrum,tauros,band guzzlord.Solid pick overall.

C+ -> B-

Loves setting up tspikes on xatu .Can also effectively counter vileplume and take advantage of fighters,drapion,guzzlord and the rising escavalier.

C- -> C+

Benefit from the lack of sturdy psychic resists while destroying darks and bronzong with dazzling gleam and shadow ball respectively.Too reliant on specs to rise higher.

C- ->C+

SteelVally role compression in hazard removal,goodra,exploud,tyrantrum,starmie check,toxic spikes and slow pivoting but enough to threaten breakers make it an interesting choice in the current metagame . Can adapt his moveset depending of team. Poison Fang is also a nice option to counter cosmic power xatu while work up+flamethrower forces out leech seed plume,thunder wave for speed control. . .

Drops

A -> A-

Broken breaker on paper not on practice.Counterplay in itemless mons,protect on wish passers,guzzlord and even more to scout make golurk very prediction reliant and not much worth over others breakers.Prevents teams from fullfully use knock off.Stealth rocks sets are hard justify over mudsdale sporting better defensive utility.
Small drop showcasing how poltergeist restrict building and playing.

A- -> B+

Still thereatening but teams adapated and he has an hard teams dealing with spdef vaporeon,goodra,snorlax or yache berrys.

A+ -> B+

Stealth rocks sets fallen in usages with xatu in top and bronzong sporting better utility.AV sets suffers from 4mss wanting power whip for vaporeon but also stone edge for talonflame.Oh and why not superpower to catch guzzlord ! Doesn't tank well (considering you want max speed to bypass vileplume saping) and are easy to worn down.
Yeah he knews better time.

A- -> B

Dry Skinners ,often knows as abusing vaporeon.
Heliolisk suffers from competition with rotom-mow sporting better utility in defog,will-o-wisp and able to run others item than specs without losing in power.Blastoise being less revelevant and vaporeon starting running spdef means his dry skin niche isn't dominant as before and scarf set can't solely make it A rank.
Powercreep made croak heavy reliant on setup to do progress .His checks are more or less commons (dragalge,mudsdale,silvally-ground,doublade,golurk,diancie,salazzle) so you often prefer others fighters like passimian or sirfetch'd who are less match-up reliant, unless you really hate vaporeon and you still need to build around to make it work.

B -> B-

Get less opportunities to sweep these times with the plenty of available flying resists.Also need acrobatics so no boots and thus requires heavy support if wanting to build around it.
However he keep his unique niche in non choice locked speed control so not C tier.

B+ -> B-

Bulk up sets are better performed by talonflame who is faster and crippling flying resists with will-o-wisp.Doublade presence also hurt it.Choice scarf kills itself with recoil and rock weakness.Unless ghost resist is really needed you're better of using talon.

B -> C

Near 0 defensive utility,need to build around to make it work and it isn't even worth because forced out by every breaker or burned by talon or toxiced.Running substitute solve statue issue but add rock weakness and limit glastrier setup opportunities.
Bad mon


B-> C

Defensive sets are better done by talonflame who is faster,get more utility moves in taunt and defog and a better check to intimidate immunity in sirfetch'd .
Offensive sets are too weak without life orb.If life orb then you die to recoil and rocks => use talonflame.


New

-> A-


Ok perhaps snorlax wasn't the beast autowinning game with curse darkest lariat heavy slam.People proved curses sets got more counterplay than expected abusing the fact he is forced to rest and be extremely passive (wasn't even used the lasts SCL weeks) but B+/B seem a bit harsh.Others sets looks underatted.AV lax can act like a physical goodra spreading paralysis with body slam and has an easier time to sit on defensive cores thanks to his toxic immunity.CB faces competition over tauros as normal type breaker but additional special bulk make it justifiable if needed.

-> A-


Good physically defensive mon most notably checking tyrantrum,passimian and snorlax, who get a lot of set up opportunities but often fail to break without prior damages.Toxic and Solar Blade Herb partially solves issue and also suffers from 4mss because non iron head means mons like vileplume and sylveon (diancie if non-solar blade) become walls.And dropping fight coverage made steel matchups even harder .Also get forced out by every special attacker -> can't be solely used as a fairy/dragon/normal resist on special side.Pretty double-edged with huge pros but notable cons.

:tsareena: -> A-

This mon is just so good right now,compressing spinning pivoting and utility is always welcomed especially when hazard removal sucks bar rotom-mow.Like talonflame he is just bypassing his counters by pivoting.Incredibly hard to switch into without risk.Interesting ability combining with speed boost late game.Can run a lot of items (from yache berry as emergency blastoise to itemless or pads to avoid talon's burns).
Weakness ? Can be hard to build around it.
New meta mon for sure

:stunfisk-galar: -> B-

The rising star from SCL didn't steal his place.One of the few rotom-mow counters (without nasty plot at least),enough bulk to use his steel type vs top breakers in goodra,dragalge,exploud or tyrantrum.Unfort no toxic and be unable to threaten xatu in any way so it could be hard to fit it in teams.

:froslass: -> C+

Spikes+thunder wave froslass get some uses with success.Thunder wave crippling fast hazards removals combine well with spikes abusers in tauros and starmie .
 
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zS

you know... you really are something
is a Pre-Contributor
I have enjoyed nu a lot recently so i thought i'd give my 2 cents on how i think the nu metagame is like currently
nu viab.png

:diancie: from A+ to S-: this mon is by a decent margin our best rocker in my opinion. Offensive sets have popped off in recent weeks and that's for a good reason. If you click the right move, this has lowkey no switch-ins. Rock + Fairy + Ground/Fire is perfect coverage and hits most of the tier for super effective damage which is huge. The defensive sets are not to be left out as it still check a great portion of the metagame on its own and compensates its lack of immediate recovery by taking very little damage on most mons it comes into thanks to its great bulk. It is definitely a metagame defining presence so I'd advocate for a rise to S-.

:escavalier: from B+ to A+: this mon is crazy good, like craaazy good. both Expulso and Elias PSY covered pretty much why it should rise, nothing more to add.

:decidueye: from B+ to A: idk why this mon sits in B+, it's in my opinion one of the best breakers the tier has to offer. It has very little switch-ins and is not even threatened by tflame's flame body thanks to its long reach ability. I might be biased by how good it was in my current run of league but this mon's most definitely not B+ by any means. It also provides teams with good defensive utility as it is a solid check to rotom-c and its typing allows it to come in safely on a lot of mons. Obviously it's not flawless but I think this little duck ghost owl archer thing deserve a significant rise.

:machamp: from C to B/B+: I don't know why this pokemon is hated so much by the community. It really has no switch-ins and the fact that snorlax has drop makes it even better. It still faces stiff competition from the duck and passimian, but it is criminally underrated. I don't think it is at the duck or passi level, but I think the meta is not prepared enough for this threat and it benefits from it greatly.

i'll cover other points later on, thanks for reading and if you have any question/doubt on why i rank a certain thing over another just tag me on discord i'd be pleased to answer and give my reasoning to make the metagame advance further!
 
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had some extra time on a flight, vibed to outkast and wrote down my thoughts on the meta
gonna give my thoughts on top 10 mons and other nominations. Everything in order more or less

S

:Talonflame: not much to say here. most defining mon of the metagame, amazing splashability and consistency. speed, set diversity, what more can you ask for

S-

:Bronzong: second best mon in the tier. I talked about dropping this down to S- in my previous post, it just doesn’t feel as good as it used to especially with the rise of xatu, groundvally, guzz etc. still a great rocker and ID press can still roll certain teams

:Rotom-Mow: I believe this is the best scarfer in the tier, the sheer amount of role compression with Trick/Defog/Leaf Storm/Volt Switch. Nasty plot sets are crazy too, not much to say here

:Diancie: another mon that I believe is extremely splashable but at the same time is extremely consistent. a solid rocker that can pressure xatu is valuable in today’s metagame. Moreover having heal bell and a good set of resistances really make this a great cornerstone of a lot of defensive cores such as diancie + guzz + vapo. Set diversity is great DiamondPress has great breaking potential tbh and fast power gem moonblast can really mess up guzz which is valuable. Overall just hella solid and I believe 4th best mon

A+

:Xatu: this thing has been on the rise and its damn solid, can provide so much support for a team by denying rocks and just shutting down zong more or less, also has the added benefit of matching up great against plume which is on the rise. futureport, twave, cosmic power are all options that keep you guessing and can really support a team well.

:Sylveon: this thing is SO solid I’m pleasantly surprised. as a wish passer and cleric it does an excellent job and its pixilate hyper voice is strong enough to not make it just passive, at the same time it offers so much defensive value by checking things like sirf, pass, starmie etc. on top of that specs sylv is an absolute monster and it’s been getting some decent usage/success in SCL. it just consistently wears down its own checks by spamming hyper voice so that you’re constantly making progress.

:Guzzlord: 7th best mon, I think it’s best set is 3 attacks + rest/protect depending if you have cleric support. another mon that consistently makes progress with knock off, on top of that it offers so much defensive utility allowing it to panic check and trade with things like drap, stoise, starmie, exploud etc. dark types are hard to come by and guzz is definitely the best one in the tier.

:Dragalge: this is where things get a bit clouded but I do believe drag is next best, adaptability draco and sludge bomb just make so much progress against teams, more over the ability to pivot out on steel types is what makes drag so dangerous, allowing in other mons that take advantage of steels. Cores like drag + sirf are so dangerous for that reason. last slot is really malleable on drag which is excellent, specs with focus blast can be amazing (I got my copper bopped by Xiri’s specs drag fblast in NU league and still feel it to this day) protect, scald, and toxic spikes are all great options as well

:Mudsdale: dont use this mon too much tbh but it’s just very consistent at what it’s supposed to do, set up rocks, force mind games with volt switchers, check pass, talon, drop, guzz, golurk. Best part is that it packs a pretty solid punch.

A

:Vileplume: dont want to reiterate too much from previous posts but this thing is insanely bulky, strength sap, effect spore, growth, corrosive gas, sleep powder just offers so much utility and its typing is amazing

:Vaporeon: I may be overrating but this thing just offers so much support to the tier and teams in general, wish passing + heal bell support is extremely valuable and a solid set of resistances make this amazing although not as good as sylveon

:Salazzle: I just feel like it suffers from a lot of competition with talonflame as the fast fire type on teams

:Drapion: just doesn’t feel as potent as it used to, but still amazing

:Copperajah:

:Escavalier:

:Golurk: rock polish, cb, offensive rocks, all solid not much to say here it’s good as usual

:Goodra: amazing beaker that doesn’t need team support but doesn’t have as much raw power as others

:Sirfetch’d: amazing breaker that needs more team support but has an insane amount of raw power, ranking it lower than goodra bc It needs more support and goodra’s speed is really nice

A-

:Silvally: Ground

:Passimian: second best scarfer imo sorry :D Phantomistix regardless, insane momentum generator and constantly makes progress

:toxicroak:

:Exploud: honestly this thing is still absurd, it requires a lot of team support but its ability to just light up 70% of the tier w just specs boomburst is absurd, silk scarf is really cool as well. I think it's especially great when thinking about the fact that alot of the tier is focused on speed over bulk (groundvally's popularity, speed creep on guzz/diancie etc.)

:Heliolisk: this thing is dope as hell, specs is nuts with decent prediction and if you can rid of the opponent’s ground type with pressure from taxicroak, sirf, or pass volt just goes crazy. ebelt not bad either

:Tauros:

:Blastoise:

:Starmie:

B+

:Mantine: I think this pokemon is awesome but I feel like it’s lacking. im always wishing i had haze, hurricane, toxic, roost, scald, defog in one game so its hard for me to choose this mon over others

:Tyrantrum: scarf and dd are solid as seen in SCL

:Doublade:

:Decidueye: seems so solid on paper but idk just havent been able to make it work in reality. no item defog roost uturn seems decent but obviously the main winners are the offensive sets

:Braviary: sub BU is hella dope, I think we saw an SCL game with sensei axew where it was able to get past a pretty bulky defensive core anchored by bronzong, obviously suffers competition from talon as the flying type but has enough of a niche to keep it in B+

B

:Snorlax: dont want to reiterate too much from others but lax just kills too much momentum and much like lax in LC forces you to build bulky and play slow which I think is a pretty big setback rn

:Garbodor: still think this is the superior spiker bc of its ability to fit on more teams, offers good resistances, punishes physical attackers and pain split is great as well in a tier with vapo and guzz

:Froslass: HO builds with this thing are solid as seen in SCL, a spike stacker that pressures xatu is dope

:Dhelmise:

:Rhydon:

:Palossand: honestly a pretty solid rock setter that pressures xatu and has reliable recovery, not much else to say

B-

:Quagsire: been talking about this mon with Ninja recently, it feels like a really solid pick on balance as seen in SCL and ofc with it’s a staple presence on stall. being able to stop lazzle, drap, iron press zong, and croak just makes it a pretty solid pick in my eyes and I think it should rise by extension

:Scrafty: dark types are few and far between and this thing eats bulky builds

:Druddigon: shoutout Catalisador for both drud and araquanid, his HO team was extremely solid and raised the viability of both of these mons in my eyes

:Araquanid:

:Kingdra:

:Comfey:

:Silvally: Steel

:Duraludon: eject pack is a solid rocker that keeps up momentum on offensive teams, seen it a couple times in SCL and on ladder and it's honestly not awful.

:Weezing:

:Glastrier:

C+

:Inteleon: I would put this mon at the top of C+ just bc it's speed tier is nuts and specs is pretty dope but inconsistent as well, just feels outclassed by starmie tbh

:Togedemaru: as long as rotom-mow is good this will be decent

:Ninjask:

:Machamp:

:Indeedee-F:

:Sneasel:

:Aerodactyl:

:Silvally: Ghost


C

:Gigalith: :Sandslash: :Lycanroc:

:Arcanine:
 
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Ren-chon

as the morning dawns we close our eyes
is a Tiering Contributor


:diancie: A+ -> S Theres not much to be said here really. The role compression you can get off of a single mon is insane: breaker with specs, rocker that can beat xatu, win con with dstorm bpress, sr 3 atk which is surprisingly hard to switch into if you dont have a sylv or vap, cm, and so on. Best rocker in the tier, and overall one of the best mons too

:xatu: A+ -> S- This thing is basically warping up the meta around it, in a way that your team has to 1) up vs xatu, or 2) wont mind having rocks off vs xatu squads. The rise in usage of stuff like offensive muds, sr shadow ball zong, rhydon, palossand and so on all reflect the ways we're having to adapt to account for the bird

:rotom-mow: S- -> A+ This thing has seen better days. We all expected it to take over the tier once flygon left, but then what happened is that we started using lots of electric resists instead of just 1 immunity, and between stuff like vileplume, dragalge, guzz, goodra and so on mowtom has big issues doing... Anything really. Most the time it just volt switches 2 or 3 times and then tricks away its scarf, and NP sets are a tad easier to handle as well with the tier getting progressively faster so base 87 spe aint that attractive anymore, opening up space for offensive counterplay too

:vaporeon: A- -> A Vap is bad. Like, really bad. It sucks as a mon, and gotta be the most easily exploitable thing in the tier after limber ditto. However, non-cleric sets are actually pretty good rn. Ice beam, toxic and roar are some really cool options it can run as its 4th and all can actively help you make progress instead of just "reseting" the game state with hbell. It sucks that you require either another cleric or a status sponge, but the ability to not be a sitting duck vs dragalge, goodra, mowtom and plume is super valuable

:escavalier: B -> A A lot has been said in the previous posts so wont go too deep into it. Band offers insane breaking power, and bulky tect sets can annoy the opposing team by spamming knock and be a solid win con late once everything is properly chipped. Protox is bad tho, dont use it

:passimian: B -> A Best scarf rn, but a tad too unidimensional to go higher. Solid speed tier, solid breaking power, and can easily pivot in and out of stuff due to okay bulk + ut

:froslass: UR -> B HO is good, and lass is about the best lead you could ask for in these kinda teams. Ups vs xatu, spreads status if you go with tw, prevents up, and can take one with it through dbond

:drapion: A+ -> A- Used to hype it quite a lot, but its kinda... Meh rn. Muds is almost everywhere, groundvally being a thing now, pass being one of the two most common scarfers, etc etc. The meta isnt really that good for it anymore, although being an actual ghost resist with nice def + grounded poison gives it some nice defensive utility too. SD Aqua Tail could potentially keep it in A, but Id rather drop it for now

:copperajah: A+ -> A-, or A This thing has seen better days. It suffers from MASSIVE 4mss, leaving you walled by a lot of common stuff depending on what you drop. No edge means talon switches in any time it wants, no whip gets you walled by vap, muds and mantine, no crash and you cant beat plume or zong, no superpower and you literally cant touch guzz, etc. It can beat xatu if you use it as your rocker which is cool ig, but fitting rocks just makes it even easier to switch into

:gigalith: :sandslash: :lycanroc: C -> C+, and I could see it rising to B- also. Sands is pretty legit rn, and most teams counterplay to this is often just muds or vap which arent that hard to deal with depending on your other 3.
 
The "official" VR are ancient at this point, the metagame has evolved a lot since, and a lot of users have started to scrap it altogether and make their own. I will be joining them.

S Rank
1.
Tflame has it all. It's ability is one of the few contact move punishers in the tier and it can run anything from supporting sets to sweeping sets (I even ran itemless + double removal consecutively in SCL). Phenomenal win condition, glue, speed tier, move pool. Best Pokemon in the tier hands down.

2.
This Pokemon is shutting down most frequent NU hazard setters on it's own. While HDB have been introduced to the game and NU is not shy to use them, hazards are still dominant to ensure punishment of switches or pseudo-remove your opponents item in case they turn out to be boots. Knock Off is also omnipresent so keeping hazards off is just incredible, even in SS. Lastly, Xatu has a great movepool, able to bring in threats via Teleport or even start going for game with a deadly CM set.

3.
Diancie is the best Rock setter of the format and simply has a beautiful typing in combination with Body Press when we take into account what the NU meta looks like. It obviously beats the big 2 (always run gem for Xatu so BP/Gem/Rocks/Filler which I usually like to be Toxic or Heal Bell, but I've fallen prey to not expecting Moonblast before .-.) and even if it does struggle a bit against bulkier Pokemon it is not too bad since rocks will help your teammates dig into those.


A+ Rank
4.
I'll admit that the meta has adapted quite nicely to this thing's Volt Switch. When Flygon departed I was ringing the alarm bells but there are so many Grasses and Dragons running around which it does very little to, and even harder stops like Stunfisk or Toge, as well as the riskier U-turn Silvally-Ground to not make Volt entirely Free 5/5 times Mow comes in. Overall, this Pokemon is one of the most meta-defining threats, but manageable within the tier.

5.
Successful teams need a Scald/Status absorb because of this thing. You cannot reliably slap Toxic on your team and be able to deal with Vap. The amount of hits Vap can shrug away is scary, it's scald packs a punch, and the structures it can fit on are incredibly numerous. One of, if not the most dangerous answer to Scald, Toxicroak also got worse with the introduction of Doublade (especially Sucker SD LO).

6.
Body Press is one broken move and Bronzong is one of those fortunate enough to get it alongside a +2 defense-boosting move. Together with it's good typing/ability this thing can reliably find the time to click Stealth Rock (which does NOT mean that they will actually land on your opponent's side of the board because Xatu is a Pokemon) or win games out of the gate. Some weakness to Knock/Poltergeist and, more importantly, Xatu keep this at the bottom of A+ for me however.


A Rank
7.
Absolutely loving this Pokemon, it punishes some of the best physical moves in Knock Off & U-turn, and checks fightings really nicely. The filler move is also quite versatile, but the fact that Xatu can prevent it from healing kinda blows. At least you can attempt to poison it.

8.
This Pokemon's Knock/Toxic/Protect(or Filler)/Filler set is an absolute pain in the ass because the Toxic immunities usually do not appreciate their items being removed - with the exception of the based Plume. The mon is pretty fat on both ends and has a good typing to go with it.

9.
Adaptability is bonkers, and Dragalge is pretty damn fat. It chips at Steel-types really nicely via Flip Turn -> Xatu. There are a few downsides however, mainly that it is slow and there is also the problem of Steels still tanking it relatively well. Also, what if u don't want Xatu? A Rank feels good enough for those reasons.

10.
The arguments have been rehashed plenty. In summary, this mon can still slap, but it will need to have the right moves selected in the teambuilder because it suffers from 4mss after the meteoric rise of Talonflame and Guzzlord

11.
The best classic fat Ground NU has left. Access to SR. Very solid overall but the defensive set does struggle to up against Xatu and some other removal even (Starmie, Mow...).


A- Rank
12.
Kinda cringe vs Talonflame and Plume teams. Nasty high ATK and access to good prio

13.
The danger level of this thing is through the roof during midgame. What expulso mentioned regarding it needing chip for kill ranges is true but that is doable.

14.
Knock Toxic Protect Megahorn (pretty similar to Guzz). Super annoying but it will mean that your Steel can't set up SR. Also u can run the anti-crit if youre weak to Kingdra which is cool.

15.
I think he is manageable but still requires huge attention in the builder and offers a good punching bag to throw in vs more passive mons.

16.
Would have ranked this in A if not for Doublade. It is still a good Pokemon but I think u might need to drop Sucker for Knock now, at least on SD.

17.
Fast and strong glass cannon.

18.
Poltergeist representation

19.
Alternative to Vaporeon on structures appreciating it's typing more.


B+ Rank
20.
Offensive set destroys the unprepared but usually dies if it cannot Ohko which is cringe. Forced out vs. Scarf U-turn or takes 50+ which is also cringe. Defensive set spins on an incredible number of Setters, but it's scald is way weaker than Vap's and it is nowhere near as bulky. It doesn't help that scald gets prepped for if people simply prep for Vap.

21.
strong, fat pdef, moderately fast, good movepool including the holy grail: Rock Slide

22.
I really like itemless as an answer to mainly Knock (!), but also helpful vs Poltergeist. Good Talonflame partner. Can threaten Xatu as a rocker.

23.
Big threat but one-dimensional and well prepared for.

24.
Swiss army knife breaker with speed and bulk to boot. 4mss

25.
Limited switch-ins but even a simple Diancie will kinda do the trick at least for a while, and Exploud is kinda slow for what it is.

26.
Decent Scald answer but it's struggling a lot to kill Vaporeon


B Rank
27.
Ground-version. Good Pivot that has just enough speed for Mow. It has a strong Ground-Stab and good bulk + a very solid matchup into Diancie, but it's other attacks are relatively weak and it lacks recovery + suffers a bit from 4 mss (ground rock uturn defog toxic)

28.
Suffers from the fact that it occupies the Steel slot without offering Stealth Rock. Weak to Knock, weak to Talonflame. It's saving grace is that it is a good Partner in crime for Diancie or Vaporeon, which can cover those weaknesses. Doublade can then become quite troublesome.

29.
Pretty based Xatu Partner, checking things like Diancie and Palossand, while Xatu prevents Plume from healing

30.
Galarian Form
Based Mow counter (bar Nasty Plot). Sludge Bomb poison punishes Xatu HARD.

31.
This Pokemon is quite undervalued, it can hit Talonflame for 100 million via Facade and still learns Priority to use vs faster mons. Worst case it could realistically live 1 neutral hit

32.
Scald absorb, can sometimes softcheck fightings, Haze is a tool that can be used, Defog is alright

33.
Weak to a bunch of top tier threats, but the itemless idea is still somewhat cute.

34.
I do not rate this Pokemon as highly as most others. It doesn't have an ability, stats or even a good movepool/nasty speed. Tempted to put it lower but the bottom of this will do for now.


B- Rank
35.
Not a bad Pokemon but struggles against the top Metagame + has to compete with the Flame for a spot.

36.
SpD seed is one of the best stops to huge offensive threats like Dragalge/Kingdra/Toise but Knock Off/Corrosive Gas and Xatu as well as Fighting-types give it a super rough time. Movepool is great.

37.
Head Smash go brrrrrr. Bad SpD, Counters hard counter, mediocre speed.

38.
Fighting-types are nasty in this tier so small bump to this guy. Negating abilities is also super cool and imo it's best ability.

39.
Hard Mow counter with a sturdy SpD wish spiky shield set. Fillers can include cool moves like Nuzzle or Super Fang. Even scarf is okay.

40.
Alright Pokemon that can absorb Status, use Bulk Up to win games and just knock shit off. Kinda weird to build with because its a defensive Pokemon with very limited defined defensive uses.

41.
Ghost version. I rate this because people use itemless as their Ghost resist a LOT. Silv-Ghost abuses that really nicely and Ghost alone is already super nice coverage.

42.
This pokemon has access to 2 of the greatest moves in this game. STAB Freeze-Dry off a respectable SpA, as well as Knock Off. This combination is very hard to switch into. Paired with access to spin (or defog!!) as well as good speed / great special bulk / access to good recovery this Pokemon has a ton of desirable qualities that let it switch into things like Blastoise as well as beat setters the likes of Palossand.

43.
I don't think counting this out is wise ever. Its super fat for what it is, and can decide whether to go for both boosts, a specific single one, or simply attacking, depending on what it is up against. That being said there are counters & checks, and they are numerous.


From here on out in no particular order

C+ Rank









C Rank




Diancie+Ground is going to be more serviceable 85% of the time but that being said it does do some role compression and packs a punch. Good with knock absorb.


C- Rank

Talonflame



I can think of situations/matchups where I would want this Pokemon but I can not think of teams where I would want this Pokemon


Will edit later in case I forgot something important
 
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poh

Demons stuck on my shoulder
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Moderator
Tiering Update 11/27/21:
Sheet found here.

Rises:
:diancie: A+ -> S-
:mudsdale: A -> A+
:salazzle: A -> A+
:sylveon: A -> A+
:vileplume: A- -> A
:escavalier: B+ -> A-
:passimian: B+ -> A-
:tauros: B+ -> A-
:quagsire: C+ -> B-
:druddigon: C -> C+
:gigalith: C -> C+
:inteleon: C -> C+
:machamp: C -> C+
:sandslash: C -> C+
:togedemaru: C -> C+
:doublade: UR -> B+
:tsareena: UR -> B
:snorlax: UR -> B
:froslass: UR -> B-
:omastar: UR -> C+
:stunfisk-galar: UR -> C+
:turtonator: UR -> C+
:ferroseed: UR -> C
:tangela: UR -> C

Drops:
:bronzong: S -> S-
:drapion: A+ -> A
:copperajah: A+ -> A-
:mantine: A- -> B+
:heliolisk: A- -> B+
:ninjask: B -> B-
:arcanine: B -> C+
:glastrier: B -> C+
:aerodactyl: C+ -> C
:silvally-ghost: C+ -> C
:magneton: C -> UR

Rises:
:diancie: A+ -> S-
:mudsdale: A -> A+
:salazzle: A -> A+
:sylveon: A -> A+
:vileplume: A- -> A
:escavalier: B+ -> A-
:passimian: B+ -> A-
:tauros: B+ -> A-
:quagsire: C+ -> B-
:druddigon: C -> C+
:gigalith: C -> C+
:inteleon: C -> C+
:machamp: C -> C+
:sandslash: C -> C+
:togedemaru: C -> C+
:doublade: UR -> B+
:tsareena: UR -> B
:snorlax: UR -> B
:froslass: UR -> B-
:omastar: UR -> C+
:stunfisk-galar: UR -> C+
:turtonator: UR -> C+
:ferroseed: UR -> C
:tangela: UR -> C

Drops:
:bronzong: S -> S-
:drapion: A+ -> A
:copperajah: A+ -> A-
:mantine: A- -> B+
:heliolisk: A- -> B+
:ninjask: B -> B-
:arcanine: B -> C+
:glastrier: B -> C+
:aerodactyl: C+ -> C
:silvally-ghost: C+ -> C
:magneton: C -> UR

We're discussing the Hail-related mons and will be added in the near future.
 

Lucario

Trivia Leader
is a Top Social Media Contributor
Hello, I just wanted to share a few thoughts since the thread hasn't seen activity for a while.

Rises:

:Stunfisk-Galar: C+ --> B-
Gunfisk is still a fantastic Steel type, Rocker, and check to the lawn mower. It threatens Xatu and Talonflame with Sludge Bomb poison fishing, which no other Rockers can do. It has useful utility in Thunder Wave and Painsplit for recovery and destruction of Guzzlord. Gunfisk's amazing typing and well rounded bulk is something that benefits a lot of teams and it will stay like that going forward.

:Weezing: C+ --> B-
Neutralizing Gas, Levitate, Wisp, Toxic, Toxic immunity, good bulk. What else can you ask for in a wall? With the right set, Weezing can check anything from Sirfetch'd to Tauros to even Sylveon. Its access to Flamethrower and the aforementioned Wisp give it a niche that the other bulky Poison, Garbodor, doesn't have. It can even run Haze if you want it to. With Tauros and Passimian gaining a lot more usage lately, Weezing is definitely a more viable option.

:Uxie: UR --> C+
Great rocker whose moveset is amazing. It has access to utility moves like U-turn, Thunder Wave, Yawn, and Heal Bell which can all be beneficial. Itemless paired with Levitate turns Golurk into a sad baby. Its bulk of 75/130/130 is amazing on top of a great Speed stat of 95, allowing it to get the upper hand on the base 70s-90s that roam the tier. It can act as a Physical wall to check Sirfetch'd, Golurk, and IDPress Zong. It can also be a Special wall to mess with Starmie, Salazzle, and Heliolisk.

Drops:

:Salazzle: A+ --> A
Due to the vr update post not being updated to include the reasonings, I am unaware of why Salazzle rose to A+. With that in mind, too many walls like Diancie, Heatproof Bronzong, and even Goodra check this lizard. Sure, its Speed tier is nice, but after a while Salazzle tends to do nothing in a battle because it relies on a Nasty Plot to sweep or relies on its teammates to do their jobs. Subtox is a set, but Exploud clicks the funny button and Heliolisk clicks the Adele button.

:Braviary: B+ --> B
Other than shutting down Golurk, why is this still ranked so highly? There are so many mons that beat Braviary that makes B+ a little too high for it. Scarfers like Rotom-C, Heliolisk, and Passimian all beat it. Walls like Mudsdale, Bronzong, and Diancie all beat it. Other various mons such as Talonflame and literally anything faster beats it. It's just as sad as Snorlax.

:Araquanid: B- --> C+
Webs are in a weird spot. Most breakers like Toxicroak or Drapion that would appreciate Webs can't properly take advantage of them due to the high amount of Ground immune Pokemon and the boots. Talonflame, Salazzle, and Rotom-C are fast options that don't worry about webs due to being Ground immune or the boots. The meta is also in a bulky state where setting up is a necessity to do big damage, but isn't possible due to the defensive power that Pokemon like Bronzong, Diancie, and Vileplume have. Xatu's existence also disrupts Araquanid from enjoying its life while Vaporeon's lowered usage gets rid of its only other niche.

Honorable Mentions:
:Goodra: A --> A+
:Tauros: A- --> A
:escavalier: A- --> A
:comfey: B- --> C+
:Druddigon: C+ --> B-
I couldn't really write anything that sounded convincing or even remotely good, so there won't be any explaining for these 5.
 
Three main noms

:SS/bronzong:: S- to UR : Ding dong the bell is dead. You have ascended with our former messiah lord flygon.

:ss/gigalith:: C+ to B or higher: standard rocks/rock stab / eq/ toxic variants have no switchins with bronzong gone. Gigalith stonks rise heavily with this tier shift. Also there’s going to be more requirements for SpD walls with the funny steel bell gone, GL to anyone playing vs indeedee-f while I use gigachad to eat expanding force for breakfast.

:ss/vileplume:: A to S-: Vileplume beats or goes even with every other steel type in NU. Bronzong was the only thing which could both blank its stabs and damage it significantly in turn, making this already excellent Pokémon even more tough to deal with defensively.

Other random stuff:

:SS/indeedee-f: > Higher: Bronzong is gone, all the other steel types struggle to withstand expanding force long term, the tie’s dark types can get obliterated by coverage moves. I wouldn’t be too surprised if this mofo gets suspected soon.

:SS/dragalge: / :ss/comfey: / everything else that doesnt like steel types: > Higher: Do I really need to explain? Fat steel rises, the other options are less fat or less punishing, mons become more tricky to deal with.

Thanks for coming to my Ted talk. In all seriousness though, these nominations were made with sincerity. If I didn’t provide enough reasoning for them / people need clarification I’m always willing to flesh it out.
 
Last edited:

banks

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:Araquanid: B- --> C+
Webs are in a weird spot. Most breakers like Toxicroak or Drapion that would appreciate Webs can't properly take advantage of them due to the high amount of Ground immune Pokemon and the boots. Talonflame, Salazzle, and Rotom-C are fast options that don't worry about webs due to being Ground immune or the boots. The meta is also in a bulky state where setting up is a necessity to do big damage, but isn't possible due to the defensive power that Pokemon like Bronzong, Diancie, and Vileplume have. Xatu's existence also disrupts Araquanid from enjoying its life while Vaporeon's lowered usage gets rid of its only other niche.
Disagree with this. Araquanid is worth more than merely being setup fodder for Webs. Its defence lets it come in against most Fighting-types as well as mons like Escav and Salazzle. In particular, SubTox + STABs thrashes common balance and bulky offence builds that rely on Wish passing and hazard residual. Speaking of its defensive value, mons like Rotom-C and Goodra fail to pressure Araquanid as much as they'd like to, either taking undesired damage from Leech Life or getting badly poisoned.

Also echoing that advocating rises for mons like Comfey and Dragalge just because of Bronzong's departure is reactionary; I think there is a case for Comfey rising slightly, but its best set will still be defensive pivot, which really isn't applying much offensive pressure to anything bar a few mons.

I personally don't hold Sirfetch'd to the same esteem as the other A ranked pokemon. While we know how hard it can hit, its chances are limited compared to a mon like Goodra that can hit hard and has many switch-in opportunities. And once you do manage to safely get it in, there's usually an element of unwanted prediction against most good teams that aren't offence.

Vanilluxe should receive a rank somewhere. Even before Bronzong's departure, Blizzard dents the majority of the tier except our bulky Steel-types. Beside it being a worthwhile wallbreaker by itself, its Snow Warning ability gives setup opportunities to Beartic and Sandslash. Not necessarily saying that Hail teams are amazing, but its traction on ladder, NU Snake, and roomtours proves its worth.

I also think that Scrafty and Snorlax have the potential to rise in the ranks: SpD Scrafty is fickle to play against and sponges most Special Attackers like Starmie, creating setup sweeps for itself without doing much work. Similarly, CurseLax operates in the same way: it's not an arduous task to whittle down Fighting-types and physical wallbreakers with other Pokemon or even with Snorlax itself. However, I do believe Snorlax is not as easy to slot on teams like Scrafty is right now due it being even more crippled by Trick and not having much Type value on a team.
 

Rabia

men
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quick update: we do plan on having a VR slate go up early next week, so get any nominations that you think are worth making in ASAP

also, I put the hail Pokemon in the New rank because hail has seen enough use to justify it imo
 

Corthius

IT'S RADICAL
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:ss/Weezing: from C+ -> B
Pure Poison is a valuable defensive typing at the moment and Weezing offers in the trade of Spikes Levitate (or Neutralizing Gas if you wish) over Garbodor, giving it a unique place in the metagame checking threats like Passimian and Silvally-Ground and due to its utility movepool (mainly Pain Split, Will-O-Wisp and Taunt) and its big defensive stat several other physical attacker like Guzzlord and Copperajah.
It lacks in the special department and you will for sure need a good special wall with this, but it'snot designed for that anyway.
Try it out, amazing Pokemon (becomes more relevant with Silvally-Ground usage probably rising especially on ladder.
 

Meri Berry

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Tiering Update:
Sheet found here. I'd like to welcome Togkey to the Viability Rankings council! We will likely have another slate soon after NUSD playoffs are posted, as this slate doesn't represent a full understanding of the possible repercussions of Bronzong leaving the tier. However, we thought the slate was important at this time to add Hail Pokemon to the VR and overall update the tiers.

Rises:
:diancie: S- -> S
:vileplume: A -> A+
:escavalier: A- -> A+
:copperajah: A- -> A
1641714434149.png
A- -> A
:vaporeon: A- -> A
:froslass: B- -> B
:quagsire: B- -> B
:rhydon: B- -> B
:scrafty: B- -> B
:duraludon: C+ -> B-
:machamp: C+ -> B-
:weezing: C+ -> B-
:indeedee-f: C -> C+
:tangela: C -> C+
:sandslash-alola: UR -> B+
:vanilluxe: UR -> B+
:beartic: UR -> B-
:aurorus: UR -> B-
:uxie: UR -> C

Drops:
:salazzle: A+ -> A
:drapion: A -> A-
:sirfetch A -> A-
:doublade: B+ -> B
:ninjask: B- -> C+
:palossand: B- -> C+
:turtonator: C+ -> C

Rises:
:diancie: S- -> S: Diancie only gets better with the rise of Bronzong. For defensive sets, having 1 less Stealth Rocks user to compete with is a huge boon, as well as not being beaten by Iron Defense Bronzong. Offensively, it can run Choice Specs and Calm Mind sets much easier, as most of the Steel-types in the tier are now weak to Mystical Fire.
:vileplume: A -> A+: Vileplume has seen a large amount of success with all kinds of sets, most notably Infestation + Leech Seed sets, though the main reason for its rise is likely the removal of its best check in Bronzong.
:escavalier: A- -> A+: This Pokemon was already on the rise even before Bronzong left, being able to Knock Off its checks and sit on entire teams if they don't pack fire coverage. Without Bronzong, this Pokemon has a lot less competition for the Steel-type slot, though it does need to be paired with sturdy checks for Fire-type moves.
:copperajah: A- -> A: Copperajah has had a lot of controversy over the past months, but one thing that hindered its viability as a breaker was Heatproof Bronzong. Now with this obstacle gone, Assault Vest sets get much more dangerous to switch into, as well as being one of the best Steel-type checks to Pokemon such as Exploud and Goodra.
1641714434149.png
A- -> A: Silvally-Ground allows slower teams to run a Volt absorber that can outspeed Rotom-Mow, as well as comfortably sweep many unprepared teams. This Pokemon has been called busted by some, but we'll let the new meta settle before rising it any higher.
:vaporeon: A- -> A: Vaporeon is a mainstay of the metagame, often coming and going in waves as metas try and build around exploiting it. Right now, there has been a trend away from Pokemon such as Heliolisk and Toxicroak in usage, so Vaporeon is on the upswing again, able to wall many physical and special attackers alike while offering cleric support to its Steel-type teammates.
:froslass: B- -> B: Froslass benefits from the general fall in usage of Xatu, allowing it to more freely set Spikes while fitting itself onto threatening Hyper Offense builds. It has also seen recent use on more balance builds, using Wisp + Hex sets to break common cores while setting up hazards.
:quagsire: B- -> B: Quagsire has been fit onto many balance teams lately, proving itself as more than a stall mainstay. Its ability to blanket check threatening set-up sweepers like Silvally-Ground, Blastoise, and Tyrantrum makes it to where it can often sit on teams and force them to play at the Quagsire player's pace.
:rhydon: B- -> B: Rhydon sees itself getting much less competition for the Stealth Rocks slot, and is often paired alongside Escavalier to offer a Fire-type resistance as cover for its weakness.
:scrafty: B- -> B: Scrafty is a very scary Pokemon, often sweeping teams that come without a Fairy-type, and also being able to defeat Hyper Voice Sylveon with a Throat Chop + Bulk Up set.
:duraludon: C+ -> B-: Duraludon has become one of the more popular Special-type breakers in the metagame, using its Steel and Dragon type coverage to more freely spam Draco Meteor on teams with Fairy-types. However, this Pokemon did not rise as much as it might have if Bronzong stayed in the tier, as using Dark Pulse to break Bronzong proved to be a large niche.
:machamp: C+ -> B-: Machamp has often been chosen over Sirfetch'd due to its consistent raw power, as well as Facade being a general better answer to Talonflame and better neutral coverage against Pokemon like Sylveon.
:weezing: C+ -> B-: Weezing serves as a physical wall that can beat Ground-types such as Mudsdale and Silvally-Ground, walling Fighting-types, and setting up Toxic Spikes. Neutralizing Gas can also be used to bypass Xatu's Magic Bounce.
:indeedee-f: C -> C+: Indeedee-M has shown the potential of Indeedee, and Bronzong leaving the tier opens another moveslot for Indeedee over Shadow Ball, which can fit many moves such as Trick and Healing Wish.
:tangela: C -> C+: Tangela serves as a very potent physical wall, being able to wall most physical threats while threatening a Sleep Powder on any switch-in, as well as offering a lot to Bulky Offense teams by not wasting turns to heal due to Regenerator.
:sandslash-alola: UR -> B+: Sandslash-Alola is the most versatile piece of Hail teams, often finding itself on 2-piece Hail teams with Rapid Spin or Spikes and offering a potent sweeper with its incredible speed tier in Hail.
:vanilluxe: UR -> B+: Vanilluxe is good enough to be run with or without hail, being the best setter for Hail as an archetype and a good standalone breaker with Choice Specs.
:beartic: UR -> B-: Beartic takes advantage of its large attack stat with Choice Band to 2HKO most Pokemon in the metagame with a proper read, outspeeding every non-choiced Pokemon in the metagame under Hail.
:aurorus: UR -> B-: Aurorus is an essential part of full Hail teams as an archetype, it is able to set Stealth Rocks and often trade for an opposing Pokemon.
:uxie: UR -> C: Uxie allows for serious role compression in teams, being able to run all of Stealth Rock, U-Turn, and Knock Off. As a setup sweeper, its especially potent in terrain but often leaves something to be desired.

Drops:
:salazzle: A+ -> A: Salazzle hasn't been as good recently, with Pokemon such as Vaporeon and Rhydon rising in usage and factors such as lower Xatu usage and Hail teams preventing it from keeping a Focus Sash intact.
:drapion: A -> A-: Drapion has been rather inconsistent in the metagame, seeing a relatively low usage and failing to sweep into most teams that run a Ground-type. The Pokemon is still potent, but its sweeping ability relies on support which puts it outside of the A tier.
:sirfetch A -> A-: This Pokemon is a lot less consistent than it used to be, and the continued usage of Talonflame as well as the rising of other Fighting- and Poison-types make Sirfetch'd a hassle to use.
:doublade: B+ -> B: This Pokemon has just never been that good, relying on getting very good setup opportunities to make a dent into the opposing team. Some sets, such as Protect + Toxic, seem promising but are relatively unproven.
:ninjask: B- -> C+: Ninjask just isn't doing that well in the current metagame and is almost nowhere to be seen, and Bronzong rising doesn't help as it was the only Steel-type neutral to U-Turn used in the current metagame.
:palossand: B- -> C+: Palossand still does its job, but now it doesn't have the added niche of being able to beat Iron Defense Bronzong.
:turtonator: C+ -> C: This Pokemon is nowhere to be seen in the current meta, but its role as filled in SCL as a Fire-type Shell Smasher that beats Diancie still works.
 
:Tangela: C+ ---> UNRANK

Tangela is a hot garbage mon which somehow got ranked higher. Regenerator + sky high defense sound like a passable niche in comparison to Vileplume or any bulky mon but this isn't actually enough in practice. After 1000+ ladder battles, I have seen just 1 Tangela and for a good reason.

Tangela's reasoning for being ranked / higher were very vague and I'm not talking about length description. There almost no mentioning of what it can specifically do and that's really important for lower ranked mons, they need to have defining niches which warrant a ranking.

If I had to say something nice, then use it if you want a check/counter to Silvally Ground/Sandslash/Tauros/CB Decidueye in one slot, I guess this is why people use Tangela over anything else otherwise it's a mediocre blanket check mon crippled by pure grass typing, horrible special bulk and an overreliance on knock off/sleep powder to stop being passive. People are liking Escavalier more lately and while it doesn't like knock off, it's not the end of the world and this mon has overcoat which is a useful blessing right now for both Tangela and hail teams.

I would really like to see some replays of Tangela because it just looks another flavour of the month meme. There are hardly instances where I would use Tangela before any other random bulky mon, even on bulkier builds because that's where it's restricted to. The problem also lies with it's horrible match up vs the VR mons. Like... almost every pokemon from S rank to B rank either breaks Tangela with ease, cripples it with status... or can still overwhelm with secondary sets, just got down the list... I had more fun and success with meme Avalugg who walls all mons mentioned above and then some but i'm more than happy with that staying in UR.
 

roxiee

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:Tangela: C+ ---> UNRANK

Tangela is a hot garbage mon which somehow got ranked higher. Regenerator + sky high defense sound like a passable niche in comparison to Vileplume or any bulky mon but this isn't actually enough in practice. After 1000+ ladder battles, I have seen just 1 Tangela and for a good reason.

Tangela's reasoning for being ranked / higher were very vague and I'm not talking about length description. There almost no mentioning of what it can specifically do and that's really important for lower ranked mons, they need to have defining niches which warrant a ranking.

If I had to say something nice, then use it if you want a check/counter to Silvally Ground/Sandslash/Tauros/CB Decidueye in one slot, I guess this is why people use Tangela over anything else otherwise it's a mediocre blanket check mon crippled by pure grass typing, horrible special bulk and an overreliance on knock off/sleep powder to stop being passive. People are liking Escavalier more lately and while it doesn't like knock off, it's not the end of the world and this mon has overcoat which is a useful blessing right now for both Tangela and hail teams.

I would really like to see some replays of Tangela because it just looks another flavour of the month meme. There are hardly instances where I would use Tangela before any other random bulky mon, even on bulkier builds because that's where it's restricted to. The problem also lies with it's horrible match up vs the VR mons. Like... almost every pokemon from S rank to B rank either breaks Tangela with ease, cripples it with status... or can still overwhelm with secondary sets, just got down the list... I had more fun and success with meme Avalugg who walls all mons mentioned above and then some but i'm more than happy with that staying in UR.
Tangela has pretty cool utilities like Sleep Powder, Stun Spore, and Leech Seed and one thing it offers over Vileplume is Knock Off. Its defensive bulk allows it to check general physical attackers Pokemon like Silvally-G, Copperajah, Golurk, Tauros, Choice Banded Decidueye, and so on. Other Grass-types like Rotom-C and Vileplume can check Silvally-G and Golurk for example, however, having a hard wall that recovers through Regenerator and optionally Synthesis, is nice as the formers rely on Pain Split and Strength Sap or Leech Seed for recovery, respectively. Vileplume can also opt for Synthesis since Xatu is a thing but I personally wouldn't run Vileplume as my "main" Silvally-G check as it takes neutral damage from Multi-Attack.

In terms of Golurk, Itemless: Rotom-C+Vileplume are great checks to it, but it's less likely to see Darkest Lariat with Bronzong being nonexistent. Heat Crash is a nice lure for these Pokemon (and KOing the itemless Pokemon means you can click Poltergeist more freely throughout the match and force progress). Escavalier is obviously the better Knock Off user but defensively they check different things.

Non-Mudsdale teammates pairs nicely with Tangela such as Galarian Stunfisk, Diancie, and Copperajah as all these three are tremendously weak to Ground-types and they lose 1v1 to Mudsdale as Stealth Rockers. This Pokemon does pretty weird against like Vileplume, Braviary, Weezing, and Xatu but the reason it's ranked is being able to check Ground-types. Looking at some other C+ rankings like Ninjask and Arcanine, I think its niche is in the right place.
 

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