Resource SS OU DLC2 Viability Ranking Thread [Read post #1025]

:ss/nihilego: to C/C-

Nihilego is a really powerful attacker. It can tear through some of the best Mons in the tier and snowball relatively easily. Not only that, but it is decently bulky on the Special side due to a 109/131 bulk.
+1 252 SpA Nihilego Meteor Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 213-252 (70 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Nihilego Meteor Beam vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Corviknight: 298-352 (74.5 - 88%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Nihilego Meteor Beam vs. 252 HP / 128+ SpD Heatran: 222-262 (57.5 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Nihilego: 256-304 (71.3 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Nihilego Meteor Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 348-411 (91 - 107.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO (if the Lando-T has a Scarf, it can outspeed and OHKO with Earthquake)
+2 252 SpA Nihilego Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 260-308 (65.9 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Nihilego: 210-247 (58.4 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Nihilego Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragapult: 243-287 (76.6 - 90.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Nihilego Meteor Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 222-262 (31 - 36.6%) -- 71.2% chance to 3HKO
Based on these calcs, the top tier Mons will struggle to switch in after a KO with Meteor Beam, save for Blissey or Chansey. Some weaknesses that hold it back are it's reliance on Meteor Beam, it's bad physical bulk and vulnerability to Scarfed Lando-Ts. Overall, I believe that Nihilego should be on the VR, even if at a low placement.
 
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B+ to A-/A
Galar Slowking is personally eligible for a raise. Not only has it surged in WCop usage, but excels as a special wall that isn't passive. Unlike the other slowtwins even tho it relies on AV, it's able to withhold a toxic immunity, and greatly pressure CM Fini, and has a harder hitting Future Sight. Also it has great synergy on teams and often pairs well with pokemon like Corviknight which in return can be a superb defensive magnet that can take on the roll of being a blanket check to mons like Rillaboom, Garchomp, and Weavile.

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A- to A
Imho, I disagree fully with the drop of Hydreigon last slate. Despite Hydreigon showing itself to fold to faster threats like Tapu Koko, Tornadus, and Weavile. One it has a great advantage in checking both Heatran and Slowking, via roost and it's typing, these are two top tier meta relevant threats and I think it's worth mentioning that. Two it's able to tank both two prominent moves in the metagame being Knock and EQ(immune to EQ). Three even do it may look like it has a FMSS on NP sets it can usually do fine with just NP / Dark (or) Draco / EP / Roost or opt for another great set in Draco / Flash / Superpower / Roost. This allows it to lure in Blissey and OHKO Tyranitar, while still being to 2HKO Clefable. Overall I think Hydreigon still fits A rank.

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A+ to S-
Not sure if it should be S tier rn, but S- seems fitting enough to me if not just a midground between the A+ and S tier. I genuinely feel like taking on CM Clef can be a burden. Yes there is options like Haze, and Heatran(which can even carry Heavy Slam, nice tactic.) and pokemon that can threaten it before a boost but the problem mainly just revolves around Clef being what it is. A fairy types with lot's of tools, something that is great at accomplishing it's role, and Magic Guard.

Other noms I agree with:
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B+ to A-
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A to A+
 

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Finchinator

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Tapu Fini should not only rise to A-, but to A.

It is the premier check to Weavile and Urshifu-R that fits on a wide array of team archetypes. Calm Mind Tapu Fini is surging in popularity, Choice Scarf is better than ever on offense, and we are beginning to experience a revival of the Whirlpool set as well.

Tapu Fini’s set mix coupled with its defensive presence and Misty Terrain support offer a very unique and practical set of qualities for teams to take advantage of. This niche lands it squarely in A for me right now.
 

Dragon Claw

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Hey just came across the VR and thought I'd leave my thoughts about the S Ranks and potential ones


:dragapult:
Dragapult is absolutely S Rank worthy and it's good that it's ranked in there. I don't believe it's broken, at the very least right now. Maybe it'll turn out to be too restricting once we've figured out optimized cores, sets and ev-spreads but that lies within the future. My opinion on it is that it's a metadefining pokemon which is strong and versatile but also able to keep certain offensive threats and/or sweepers in check which is a healthy addition to teambuilding and the metagame in general.

:Landorus-therian:
Lando-T is great. For sure rightfully ranked in S-tier. Plenty of viable sets and strategic move options as well as ev spreads that help tank certain threats. It's ability to glue together teams and help out teammates by allowing mid-ground plays or getting them in safely is unrivaled. Even if you're ev'ing fully into bulk it still hits about everything for good damage. The other way round you're still moderately bulky even if you're running a fully offensive stats. Just great all around.

:Slowking:
While I think Slowking is super good and helps a ton I don't necessarily think it offers as much as the two above. Though, Future Sight + Port allows for incredibly potent breaking strategies and it's general bulk + port really nicely glues teams together, it's definitly a top tier pokemon. I'd personally think it fits more into A+, same rank as Corvi which would make a ton of sense considering they have a lot of overlapping traits.

:heatran:
Personally I believe Heatran should be ranked in S together with pult and lando. It's amazing, it adds so much to a team. It's strong and versatile, not only in movesets but also in items and ev spreads. It's actually pretty fast considering the metagame and it enables it's teampartners really well by trapping pokemon like slowking or (non-shed) toxapex. Most switchins don't appreciate toxic and it checks/counters a bunch of threatening sweepers simply due to it's amazing typing, volc being the prime example.

:garchomp:
Don't really care whether Garchomp would get ranked in S or A+ but I do think it's the fourth best pokemon in the tier (below lando pult tran). It does have defensive sets and supportive options but SD Scale shot is just that good. Leftovers and Life Orb are both good items on it, Life Orb especially is great to power through fat teams or to hit unaware clef hard on switchin which then opens up a sweep. Don't need to elaborate on Lefties. Personally I'd like to see it in S Rank but as the lowest of the 4, I think it's an accurate depiction of the metagame and Garchomp's strength


I think OU is in a great state currently and it's super fun as well as rewarding to play and build.
 

TailGlowVM

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It feels like Volc is really strong right now, so I'm very confused as to why it only had ~6% usage in round one of WCoP? Does anyone with more familiarity with R1 have any ideas?
Probably because Volcarona can be a bit inconsistent. Even if it has the tools to beat every Pokemon in the tier except Dragonite and Heatran (both common in WCoP) , it can't use them all on one set so a lot of stuff walls it. You lose to Toxapex and Urshifu without Psychic, Swampert and Gastrodon without Giga Drain or Safeguard, Blissey and numerous bulky Toxic Pokemon without Safeguard, Victini without bulky Bug Buzz, Tyranitar and Garchomp without Bug Buzz... the list goes on. It's been said that the reason Volcarona was able to sweep so easily was because we had checks and weren't using them, and the rise of Tapu Fini, Dragonite, and specially defensive Landorus-T among other Pokemon supports this.

It's partly for these reason I believe Volcarona is a bit overrated and I am not sure if it should rise to A+, and I think once we're actually prepared for it it will seem far from broken.
 
:Garchomp:

I don’t see why Garchomp should drop from A+, it’s possibly an S tier Pokémon still. The choice of utility or sweep potential is too strong. It’s typing is too useful for both common pics like zeraora, and rarer picks like victini

quick replay from just now to illustrate the point, Garchomp is still too good, offensively and defensiely

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1355516019

:Primarina:

I’d like to nominate Primarina to A.

primarily because there are 3 OU Pokémon that can reliably switch in to her wall breaking set: Blissey, Chansey Ferrothorn. Only ferro thorn is a genuine nuisance, and there is potential to overwhelm it.

here is the set:


Primarina @ Metronome
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 48 HP / 252 SpA / 208 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Substitute / Flip Turn

• the HP investment makes it a decent lead, giving it good survival chance from every STAB earthquake in OU and tanking electric attacks such as zapdos volt switch after your sub is broken

• alternatively you can run max speed to speed tie max speed neutral aegislash. There is limited advantage to timid, outside of beating 0 Spe Mew.. Bisharp is another threat, but it can’t

• Flip turn is good if you’re bothered by chansey/blissey. Otherwise substitute is better against almost every other team.

• Very reliable Pokémon to break at least 1 bulky Pokémon. 100% accurate high power moves with strong secondary effects really synergies with metronome. I’d argue she’s the best abuser of metronome in OU.

• Hits a massive number of OU threats for SE damage! In fact, fun tidbit , there are litte offensive Pokémon’s in the top 20 that resist at least 1 STAB whilst being at least neutral to the other. Rillaboom hates scald burns, Kartana can’t come in once metronome has given 1.2x or 1.4x boost.. Melmetal is annoying, so refrain from using sub if it’s in play!

• Stall teams have the following options to wall this set: Shedinja, Wish/protect specially defensive Clefable, and the pink blobs. So threats that take advantage of these work well.

• Anectdotal, but it feels like I’m seeing a lot more blissey in the 1750-1950 ladder rating range, I’m assuming Primarinas scary set which puts teams on the back foot from turn 1 has some sort of contribution to this!
 
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:Primarina:

I’d like to nominate Primarina to A.
I disagree with this nomination whole heartedly. Just because only 3 Pokemon can switch in on you does not make you immediately A in my opinion. Primarina faces heavy competition from the heavily increasing Tapu Fini, who generally pulls off Calm Mind better. Primarina is both slower than and has a worse ability than Tapu Fini as well, making the competition even worse. Sure, it breaks stall, but so do many common things right now, since stall is falling out of favor still. The main reason Blissey usage is rising is because of Dragapult being so common, not because people are running a mon that is generally inferior to a better option. I think Primarina should stay in B- or drop to C+. The sudden rise of Tapu Fini again in the meta makes life for Primarina really hard.
 
I disagree with this nomination whole heartedly. Just because only 3 Pokemon can switch in on you does not make you immediately A in my opinion. Primarina faces heavy competition from the heavily increasing Tapu Fini, who generally pulls off Calm Mind better. Primarina is both slower than and has a worse ability than Tapu Fini as well, making the competition even worse. Sure, it breaks stall, but so do many common things right now, since stall is falling out of favor still. The main reason Blissey usage is rising is because of Dragapult being so common, not because people are running a mon that is generally inferior to a better option. I think Primarina should stay in B- or drop to C+. The sudden rise of Tapu Fini again in the meta makes life for Primarina really hard.
try using the set as a predominate lead. That’s where it excels, as teams are put on the back foot when using dragaputl/lando/Urshifu and other common leads.

offensive threats like rillaboom that might be lucky to get a foot in, then have to worry about 50/50 decisions about attacking or pivoting mean that you’ll get more opportunities as the game progresses.

its not apples to apples, as a CM Primarina set is D grade, and near useless in OU. Tapu fini is a support/set up type. Primarina is a strong offensive pressure type. Completely different dynamic.

the popularity of blissey does affect it somewhat.. unfortunately. But blissey is notorious for being easily played around.

as always,a replay:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1355553313

Sadly I lost this match to a mis click. Tho you can see what Primarina can do first hand.
 
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B to B+
Despite the sky high prevalence of Dragapult, in addition to the rise of prominent Dark types, I believe it is time for a rise in Aegislash. As a slightly oppressed competitor of the SS OU metagame, one of the few things I appreciate is it’s wide array of sets. SD, Mixed and Sub Toxic are all notable and effective in this meta with other options like Band and Specs also being plausible. (Mixed Aegislash in particular destroys common mons seen on stall such as Clef and Pex.) It’s worth noting that in a metagame that values bulkier walls like Corviknight and Slowking which it can come in on and destroy with it's STABs, Aegislash can excel and easily find opportunities to punch a huge hole. Furthermore, Aegislash also has great synergy with a couple of pokemon, most notably Rillaboom, as it’s able to not only aid it with recovery but weaken Ground moves for it. Aegislash can both capture the quality of both an offensive and defensive presence, despite the fact that it can struggle a lot vs Offensive teams in some cases by virtue of it's low speed tier. Still all in all, Aegislash is defined well by it’s marvelous ghost typing that provides it with an ability to pressure most meta pokemon, the ability to play both as more defensively and offensively oriented, and with the ability to further adapt itself towards the conditions of some of the rising defensive threats in the metagame.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield in Psychic Terrain: 117-138 (44.8 - 52.8%) -- 29.7% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield in Psychic Terrain: 106-126 (32.7 - 38.8%) -- 6.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Lele: 404-476 (143.7 - 169.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Lele: 270-318 (96 - 113.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 90-106 (34.4 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 240-284 (74 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kyurem: 494-584 (126.3 - 149.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 328-387 (83.8 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 246-290 (94.2 - 111.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 246-290 (75.9 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragapult: 384-452 (121.1 - 142.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: 343-405 (100.5 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 273-322 (85.5 - 100.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rillaboom: 306-360 (89.7 - 105.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Steel Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 456-537 (127.7 - 150.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Both Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Buzzwole: 378-445 (90.4 - 106.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 247-292 (62.6 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 168-198 (55.2 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 92 SpD Amoonguss: 246-289 (57 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Corviknight: 235-277 (58.7 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Ferrothorn: 157-186 (44.6 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 1 layer of Spikes, and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 128+ SpD Heatran: 175-207 (45.3 - 53.6%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 132+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 228-270 (57.8 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 542-642 (137.5 - 162.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 273-322 (71.4 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 202-238 (48 - 56.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

LO sets can achieve most of the same calcs with Rocks up btw.

4 Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 286-338 (74 - 87.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 543-642 (76 - 89.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Ferrothorn: 224-265 (63.6 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 1 layer of Spikes, and Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 556-655 (137.6 - 162.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Steel Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Mandibuzz: 297-349 (70.2 - 82.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock(if boots get knocked off)

A+ to S: Agree (Behind Pult and Lando for sure)
to S: Disagree
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A to A+: Agree
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B+ to A-: Agree
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B+ to A-: Agree
C to C-/UR: Agree (Get this dogshit outta here)
 
Hewwwo! scorbunnys is now going to do another VR post.
I also sent an incompleted version of this...
s/o Unicorns for have ''hewwwo'' on her status and give me the idea for steal it =).
:suicune: B to C+
This mon is mediocre at best, Vincune is just sorta outclassed by Kyurem, which is faster and can reliably beat Pex without relying on PP Stall (tho beating Clefable reliably it's potentially a neat niche), and Crocune can be easy to abuse given that RestTalk isn't too reliable, and Fini is usually a better option, i still do think that Pressure + Checking Clef is a cool niche on Vincune and it also checks Volcarona decently, but it should drop to C+ imo.

:volcarona: A to A+/S-
Quiver Dance sets are just...so customizable, it can even run techs such as Safeguard and custom the spread for tank 1 Aqua Jet from Urshifu RS/Crawdaunt Choice Band and lure them via Giga Drain for example, which is a pretty nice tech because it's able to custom the sets/spreads a lot. Offensive 3 Attacks has also it's merit, it can actually run more moves, making it better vs Toxapex/Hydreigon. I still think that its 4MSS keeps it far from S, so A+ looks fine for now (even tho id push it to S- because its so customizable and powerful)

ausma So, i'd prob wouldn't be doing this nom if wasn't for you, because you were the person which gave me permission to do this nom.
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:ss/sylveon: UR to C-
This thing has lived on the shadows for a while, however, i firmly believe that this mon can carve a niche right now it's about to get blacklisted thanks to my obscure past thoughso that's why i asked to ausma, tho i do have real points right now.

1: Good SpD Bulk:
This trait is great, because that makes Sylveon a pretty nice SpD wall that it's also capable to beat Dragapult and Kyurem on one slot unlike Clefable while also handling well stuff such as Dragonite or Zeraora at some extent.

2: Hyper Voice + Pixilate:
Hyper Voice allows Sylveon bypass Subs and hard counter mons such as Kyurem SubRoost or Dragapult SubDD at a lesser extent, which is also pretty valuable on balances.

3: Yawn:
Yawn is worth to mention because it can force switch-ins on checks such as Heatran, Melmetal or Glowking, making it hella annoying to switch into.
Now you could be thinking, but i can just switch-in right?

R: Well, that's actually correct, however, the idea of Yawn is being on some Spikes teams, i'll provide two teams below:
:sylveon::skarmory::dhelmise::volcarona::garchomp::toxapex:
:sylveon::skarmory::garchomp::toxapex::reuniclus::excadrill:

Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1355617913-xrzsyuwinyqhi9pumr7gl3w97trhiojpw (Sylveon was able to put pressure to its resists via Yawn and it was able to keep itself healthy for be a reliable Dragapult switch-in).
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1354398108-b31epggz12bqhbqbm0ir5dd52vkvoifpw (It was able to clean up an HO)

It still lacks the Clefable's versatility and the Phsy Def bulk without enough investment, so thats why im only nominating it to C-.

:ss/golurk: UR to C-
I started using this mon as a dumb meme, but now i believe that it has nice traits.

1: Resistance to Rocks and decent bulk:
I find this being a pretty valuable trait, because it can come to the field a good amount of times. It also has a decent amount to bulk too, making it able to take stuff such as LO Clefable Moonblast while also retaining an inmunity to TWave, which is pretty valuable because that makes it a decentish wallbreaker which can come to the field a decent amount of times.

2: Nearly unwallable dual stab + Access to Trick + Nice movepool:
Poltergeist + Earthquake + Trick its actually pretty hard to wall, because theres some mons which can tank it, such as Buzzwole, however, it gets crippled by Trick. It also gets a nice coverage in form to Dynamic Punch for have a better chance to KO Blissey and its able to 2HKO Ferro even if it got Knocked Off its item. Ice Punch its good for hit Lando-T as well.

3: No Guard:
Poltergeist & Dynamic Punch are actually consistent moves thanks to this ability, because they are not 100% accuracy moves and this ability makes those moves not fail. Despite that, its still a double edged sword because now it cant dodge moves such as WoW or Toxic, but its still mostly benefitial for the mon.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1355626093-6aidqle4e9f8mlonoo940sar9luphd6pw (Golurk was able to put Ferro into Lycan Dusk range, which is rly valuable because i dont have many SpAttackers and i didnt wanted to risk lots of chip on Lycan Dusk)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1355644287-hc9rz45eqnp6vnbhh62q3h1jev3ks27pw (It killed lots of stuff and Spikes helped it)

Its slow and hard to fit on teams so id let it on C- only.

Agree With:
:clefable: to S-
:heatran: to S (S- looks better to me tbh)
:slowking: to A+
:regieleki: to C-
:mew: to B
:noivern: to C-
:lycanroc-dusk: to C-
:incineroar: to UR

Disagree With:
:regieleki: to UR
:landorus-therian: to A+

Edit: I forget that ausma gave me an spread for Sylv:
Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 208 Def / 48 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Yawn
- Wish
- Protect
This spread lets you live rocks into specs pult shadow ball into another shadow ball at -1.
 
:ss/toxicroak: UR to C
Toxicroak @ Black Sludge / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Bulk Up
- Taunt

I saw TailGlowVM recently posted about defensive Toxicroak in the heat thread + discord so I might as well bring it up here too (basically copying my own post from the heat thread). For what it's worth, I independently came up with the set (down to the moves, item, and EV spread except I put the extra 4 EVs in Atk ) on my own about a month ago and have been spamming it on a rain team in the upper-ish ladder recently, which is probably how it ended up catching on in discord, I assume.

The logic initially was that Toxicroak checks/counters many annoying mons to Rain such as Rillaboom, Kartana, Urshifu-R, Toxapex, and Ferrothorn, but I also came to realize it does a good job with other mons such as Weavile, Bisharp, Banded Tyranitar, non-Earthquake Buzzwole, Blissey/Chansey, and opposing rain (e.g., Barraskewda, Crawdaunt). Additionally, it is a good Knock Off absorber and with Taunt + Bulk Up it's also a pretty decent stall breaker while beating stuff like setup Corviknight (even if it has Brave Bird).

Note I said "check" and not "counter" for a lot of this stuff because with good prediction Toxicroak can struggle and it also kinda depends on Rain for recovery (I have not tried it outside of Rain). Toxicroak has pretty bad defensive stats and definitely needs all the bulk it can get so I wouldn't change the EV spread.

I'm pretty set on the moves, but it's worth mentioning that Knock Off is the most spammable one for making progress early game when Toxicroak gets in. I've also been experimenting with Rocky Helmet > Black Sludge to better punish U-turn (Urshifu-R + Rillaboom) and since Toxicroak often gets hit with a Knock Off early game anyway (at the moment I still prefer Black Sludge tho).

Overall, recent meta trends have been very favorable to Toxicroak; it checks/counters a surprising amount of common OU threats. It usually puts in a very solid amount of work and careful doubles to Rain breakers on the obvious Lando-T switch can also go a long way. If someone wants I'll post some calcs later but it's late here and I'm lazy.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1354490259-4qbdz373j2vetz66y4qyxe2t71vcqhxpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1353680382-u6ttf5mqm3bzvl15wm1k6g2ymdv140jpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1352784003-exk5ca2jzjsz03wdtvk35gbs4dvhfsfpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1352506498-ylid6o9r1eazqtbc7vhoc2kdpi2w3e3pw (fuck stall)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1352502334-cpqhjzrvpxe272z6xv2nwz07wsmfnhkpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1336147221-f79fram447rpj33qah8j2tw09d423vypw
 
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:Kartana:

the banded set from Kartana is absolutely devastating. Choice scarf doesn’t have the juice for the current meta, life orb fell out of fashion due to losing critical bulk, but that banded knock off puts most STAB users to shame.. literally it’s only held back by the fact that it doesn’t have any STAB with either high power or good utility.

:Slowking:

Not a fan of its rank at all, it’s falling out of fashion as quickly as it rose. Future sight is a good move but I feel teams are better prepared for it, as they play less “defensively”.

:Nidoking:

it feels like it’s lacking firepower right now, ironic since it should have plenty of it, but I think it’s the key speed tiers that it misses.. such as losing in speed to Urshifu and Kyurem. Both are everywhere...

:Tornadus-therian:

big threat, mostly on the back of its ability to harass at worst, or break at best, an entire team.

we all know the offensive and utility sets, however..

i have been having a lot of fun with an assault vest set, it needs rapid spin / defog support, but runs very well in a meta where dragapults, kokos, bulky psychics and the dreaded tapu lele hate losing their item.

One knock off from this Pokémon against most annoying special attackers puts them in range of common scarfed, setup or priority attackers.

super importantly, it can tank a hit from a lead kyurem [Warning: specs ice beam has a 25% chance to OHKO this set, so avoid the switch in and make sure you have a partner that disincentivises the use of that move. 164HP/ 176 SpD / 176Spe can reduce the chance to 12.5%] and knock it before a u turn out, making it much easier to deal with for the rest of the match. There’s not much special attackers that can OHKO it, lele is the main threat that can with specs psyshock, so you’ll need to prepare for it..

the set:

Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 188 HP / 144 SpD / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Heatwave

• Speed is fast enough to outrun up to base 110 timid. You will lose to a scarfed magnezone however.. The special defense is enough to take the most common attacks whilst you have enough HP for rillaboom.

• I have dabbled with various options for heatran, but really don’t like focus miss. If someone finds something better for heatran, let me know
 
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Sylveon blacklist when?

Serious noms, Golurk is surprisingly useful. Choice Band hits like a truck and it can even set up Rocks since you only need EQ, Poltergeist and CC/Edge depending on what coverage you want. It isn't that bulky and it needs support to switch in, but when it works, it's amazing.

Mew is an amazing Spikes setter and I've experimented with sets without WoW so that I could fit more utility in, like having Roost, Knock Off and Dragon Tail on the same set, or replacing Dragon Tail with Taunt or even Encore

Weavile is an amazing Mon in the tier right now. Most Dark resists have either no recovery (Ttar, Fini, Moistshifu), are weak to Ice (Hydreigon, Bulu and Mandibuzz) or are just bad at taking hits (Bisharp, Crawdaunt and other Weavile). This leaves Clefable, Buzzwole and Toxapex as the onlys real switchins to Weavile. Absolutely deserves a rise.

Fini and Buzz should also rise, very useful mons
 

xray

how u doin'?
is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor
Moderator
I feel like Heatran has been one of the best mons in the tier for a while. It provides lots of defensive utility and can also be a great offensive tool. Its pretty unique typing together with great stats qualify it for S rank in my eyes.
Despite of Slowking being very easy to put on any kind of team and providing valuable defensive utility and good offensive support in Future Sight, I do not think it can keep up with the other mons in S rank and would therefore support a drop to A+.
To me Garchomp is one of the most dangerous mons in the tier and I do not think that it is worse than Lando-T. Its benefit over Lando-T is a better offensive presence and that it can switch into Heatran and Bisharp more reliably. The defensive Helm-Set can be a fantastic support, whereas the offensive SD-Set will be able to break holes into any kind of team. Consideration for S rank.
I feel like Bisharp has seen better times. People have adapted and the metagame right now is not very pleasing for it with all the Buzzwolespam and Darkresists running around. Drop to A-
I feel that Buzzwole and Tapu Fini both deserve to raise. Different kind of sets have been spammed in WCOP. Tapu Fini is also very versatile in regards to sets. It can run Sub/Taunt + CM, Choice Scarf or Whirlpool as well as defensive Defog. It's a great addition to Bulky Offense teams as it provides temporary defensive utility and has the ability to break through unprepared teams. Buzzwole simply covers a lot in the metagame right now and thus, is very splashable onto teams. However, the metagame is going to develop and only time will tell in which rank these two should end up.

Edit: I also feel like Ninetales-Alola and Zapdos-Galar have seen quite some usage recently and are more than just niche mons at the moment. Putting them into a higher rank could definitely be considered as well since these are both great mons on a great playstyle (HO). I also think that Rotom-H could be considered.
 
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:ss/toxicroak: UR to C
Toxicroak @ Black Sludge / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Bulk Up
- Taunt

I saw TailGlowVM recently posted about defensive Toxicroak in the heat thread + discord so I might as well bring it up here too (basically copying my own post from the heat thread). For what it's worth, I independently came up with the set (down to the moves, item, and EV spread except I put the extra 4 EVs in Atk ) on my own about a month ago and have been spamming it on a rain team in the upper-ish ladder recently, which is probably how it ended up catching on in discord, I assume.

The logic initially was that Toxicroak checks/counters many annoying mons to Rain such as Rillaboom, Kartana, Urshifu-R, Toxapex, and Ferrothorn, but I also came to realize it does a good job with other mons such as Weavile, Bisharp, Banded Tyranitar, non-Earthquake Buzzwole, Blissey/Chansey, and opposing rain (e.g., Barraskewda, Crawdaunt). Additionally, it is a good Knock Off absorber and with Taunt + Bulk Up it's also a pretty decent stall breaker while beating stuff like setup Corviknight (even if it has Brave Bird).

Note I said "check" and not "counter" for a lot of this stuff because with good prediction Toxicroak can struggle and it also kinda depends on Rain for recovery (I have not tried it outside of Rain). Toxicroak has pretty bad defensive stats and definitely needs all the bulk it can get so I wouldn't change the EV spread.

I'm pretty set on the moves, but it's worth mentioning that Knock Off is the most spammable one for making progress early game when Toxicroak gets in. I've also been experimenting with Rocky Helmet > Black Sludge to better punish U-turn (Urshifu-R + Rillaboom) and since Toxicroak often gets hit with a Knock Off early game anyway (at the moment I still prefer Black Sludge tho).

Overall, recent meta trends have been very favorable to Toxicroak; it checks/counters a surprising amount of common OU threats. It usually puts in a very solid amount of work and careful doubles to Rain breakers on the obvious Lando-T switch can also go a long way. If someone wants I'll post some calcs later but it's late here and I'm lazy.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1354490259-4qbdz373j2vetz66y4qyxe2t71vcqhxpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1353680382-u6ttf5mqm3bzvl15wm1k6g2ymdv140jpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1352784003-exk5ca2jzjsz03wdtvk35gbs4dvhfsfpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1352506498-ylid6o9r1eazqtbc7vhoc2kdpi2w3e3pw (fuck stall)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1352502334-cpqhjzrvpxe272z6xv2nwz07wsmfnhkpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1336147221-f79fram447rpj33qah8j2tw09d423vypw
Alternative EV spread / set options - basically make sure to run 16 speed EVs to stop Crawdaunt. Some high level replays also below the linked comment.
 

Clone

No more next year
is a Tiering Contributoris a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Hippo should definitely rise to A-

It's proven itself in WCoP by being a strong alternative to Garchomp/Lando and trades offensive presence and versatility for being the most sturdy of the three (free gliscor when). Reliable recovery enables it to be a more sturdy Koko/Zera check, while simultaneously providing a Pult answer and being a decent answer to Heatran, Torn, Bisharp, and Volcarona. It can also sit on a few fatmons without too much worry and spread status or burn turns for whatever reason. I was never a fan of its drop to begin with, and it seems to me people are catching on that it's traits over the other two grounds warrants usage on more defensively-inclined teams that appreciate its longevity. It was #14 in usage during round 1 and sported a 55% winrate. Nothing crazy, but it shows that it's seeing an uptick in usage and isn't unviable. It's also a key member on the infamous 500 turns to win semistall that made the rounds in a lot of WCoP matches (the team was Hippo/Scizor/Torn/Clef/Pex/Hydreigon) and that team is a good demonstration of its usefulness, no matter how painful those games are to watch.

I will admit that Hippo is one dimensional in its role, as it needs full SpDef to check what it needs to and tends to be pretty passive outside of spreading status and moderately damaging EQs, but the team archetypes it fits on mitigate these flaws to where its strengths shine. I feel Hippo is definitely more in line with the mons in A- than those in B+ and should rise.
 

avg

formerly UrAverageHuman
First post in the OU VR, mainly based on World Cup.

Rises
to S: Heatran is one of the best glue Pokemon in the tier, able to soft check some of the best wallbreakers such as Kartana, Rillaboom, and Volcarona. Its ability to trap defensive Pokemon such as Toxapex,
to A+: Much like Kyurem, after the Magearna and Cinderace bans, Weavile has shot up to being the best late-game cleaner in the tier. Most of the Most of the Pokemon from A- to S cannot safely switch into it, as the ones that can fear their items being removed by Knock Off. Some sets have even chosen Icicle Crash over the stronger Triple Axel, to avoid contact effects such as Rocky Helmet from Corviknight and Buzzwole or Flame Body from Volcarona.
to A+: Urshifu has a unique speed tier, outspeeding pokemon such as Tapu Lele, Kyurem and Landorus-T. Fighting / Water coverage is fantastic, while U-turn is used to pivot out of problematic matchups against Toxapex. Future Sight support from Slowking helps this. Aqua Jet is also fantastic for picking off Volcarona.
to A+: I was a bit confused when this was dropped in the last VR, but the bird is the word once again. I've been using Heat Wave as the coverage, as I would rather have the better accuracy and sacrificing the Heatran and Tyranitar coverage, as in many scenarios, it would just be better to bring in it's teammates, while still taking advantage of Regenerator.
to A: Tapu Fini has emerged as a fantastic check to the rising Weavile and Urshifu, but has also seen its Choice Scarf and other utility moves it can use. Defog, Taunt, Knock Off, and Trick are all fantastic options to get fit what ever utility you would need on your team.
to A: Multiscale + Heavy-Duty Boots was an Arceus-send for Dragonite, now being able to take full advantage of its defensive capabilities without worrying about Stealth Rock, while also setting up with Dragon Dance. It is one of the best checks against Heatran, being able to use it as set-up fodder, and threatening to KO it with Earthquake. Ice Beam is also great coverage for opposing Dragonite and Garchomp attempting to check it.
to A-: Buzzwole is a fantastic blanket to many of the physical attackers such as Garchomp, Weavile, Rillaboom, and Kartana, further compounded by Rocky Helmet, while also having reliable recovery in Roost. Its coverage is extremely varied to deal with it's checks respectively, such as Earthquake for Toxapex, Poison Jab for Tapu Fini, and Stone Edge for Volcarona.

Drops/Abstain
to S-: While Slowking still deserves to be considered an S tier, and it's influence on the tier is very noticeable, but it is not on the levels of Landorus-T, Dragapult, and Heatran.
keep A: Volcarona is absolutely one of the most dangerous Pokemon in the tier to face, but we have seen much more Pokemon and coverage against it such as Tankchomp, Heatran and Stone Edge from Buzzwole. It also has horrible 4-moveslot syndrome, with Psychic for Toxapex, Bug Buzz for Tyranitar and Slowking, and Safeguard to guard against Thunder Wave and Toxic, so teams can adapt to it knowing what coverage it runs.
keep A: Rillaboom is mainly a testament to Pokemon such as Buzzwole and Dragonite, but it is still a fantastic. Grassy Glide is able to check many of the strong offensive Pokemon such as Weavile and Urshifu.
to B/B-: What does this even check anymore? Dragapult? Rillaboom? Dragapult can U-turn on it and bring in a threatening teammate such as Weavile, and Rillaboom can remove it's Heavy-Duty Boots, and also U-turn into a better matchup.
to lower: Sand has not had a great time, especially with the rise of Urshifu and Buzzwole, their shared weaknesses have become very exploitable. Specially Defensive Tyranitar is very passive, while Choice Band is very prediction reliant and very exploitable. Excadrill's poor bulk also leaves it susceptible to common priority such as Sucker Punch from Bisharp, Grassy Glide from Rillaboom, and Aqua Jet from Urshifu.
to UR: Don't use this. Walled by every Ground-type and outclassed by Tapu Koko for screens which has U-turn to provide momentum for teammates multiple times instead of sacrificing itself with Explosion, which is still relatively weak compared to other suicide leads such as Landorus-T or Mew.
 
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First post in the OU VR, mainly based on World Cup.

Rises

to lower: Sand has not had a great time, especially with the rise of Urshifu and Buzzwole, their shared weaknesses have become very exploitable. Specially Defensive Tyranitar is very passive, while Choice Band is very prediction reliant and very exploitable. Excadrill's poor bulk also leaves it susceptible to common priority such as Sucker Punch from Bisharp, Grassy Glide from Rillaboom, and Aqua Jet from Urshifu.
It's funny that ya say that because as a long time Samd abuser (and exclusive player since IOA came out) I think Sand is honestly in a better place than ever before. A decrease in Rilla helps Sand a lot, not only that but an increase in metal birds/not Hippo grounds =better breaking for Urshifu who breaks a lot of what Sand struggles with.

Buzz being more useful than ever means better match up against sands weaknesses and the rise of the metal birds, Slowking, and Chomp/Lando-T leads means a better meta for Zolt egeb if there running Special Defense especially with my own sand team which you will see on high ladder, if you have found it. I think sand is better than it has been since the Kyuh/Zygarde Meta honestly.
 
:Rillaboom:

Its no secret Rillaboom is extremely potent, if predictable.

in the current meta it technically doesn’t fit the definition of an S type Pokémon. tho to what grounds can the support provided by its terrain give it viability ranks?

Its true that it doesn’t have diverse options and checking it is a thoughtless process where a lot of its checks are go-to Pokémon’s in team building.

however... grassy terrain is arguably the most useful terrain in the current meta, and Rillaboom is the dominant setter.

could this be grounds to consider making Rillaboom higher?

It’s grassy terrains provides massive support for Pokémon such as:

- :Melmetal: who can use it to check almost all common physical threats not called Urshifu, and spread status/force switches

- :Garchomp: who can become a surprisingly reliable switch in to zapdos - which it can survive 2 hurricanes from - and heatran, recovering 25% over two turns after switching into magma storm if it carries leftovers. surprisingly it doesn’t really care about earthquake becoming weaker, because almost all switch ins to Garchomp are better hit with an alternative move.

- :Heatran: With grassy terrain support, heatran is possibly the most frustrating Pokémon for any team running a lot of special attackers/passive Pokémon, as it gets semi-consistent recovery due to the fact that it loves switching in to a lot of the Pokémon’s Rillaboom hates. Some players even use surprise sets with nature power to overwhelm some of heatrans checks.

- :Excadrill: Like Garchomp, this ones a little non-intuitive, but bulkier excadrill become reliable switch ins into almost everything offensive that switch into Rillaboom, and can spin away hazards. Also similar to Garchomp, you rarely worry about earthquake damage reduction on the things you switch into, like a revenging Koko, tornadus-T, zapdos and lele. Excadrill also appreciates the improved matchup against Landorus, perhaps the most common stealth rock user in OU

- :Volcarona: with grassy terrain support Bulkarona variants are legitimate counter plays to meta threats, the recovery can restore hp lost to uturns, give it that little bit extra to survive important damage rolls, etc. it also helps that there is strong synergy with Bulkarona checking Kyurem, Corviknight, Skarmory, Melmetal, Weavile and other nuisances. The most fun one to switch into is a buzzswole drain punch/leech life.

- :Slowking-Galar: which can become a better pivot than its regional variant, once its major weakness is reduced

- :Kartana: Grass spam is a thing for a reason! Kartana pairs so nicely with Rillaboom, possibly a better partner than Magnezone in some matchups!

Rillaboom really is a type of Pokémon that you really won’t worry about if it can’t pull it’s weight offensively in a game. Maybe you’re up against a team with all of mandibuzz, corviknight and dragonite, but your grassy terrain might mean you don’t care as your Heatran gets plenty of recovery over the match..

If you’re playing matches where every damage roll counts and your EV spreads have been optimised to deal with the most meta threats, you’ll notice those little 6.25% HP boosts the most.
 
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TailGlowVM

I didn't get where I am today without a Manaphy
is a Pre-Contributor
Regarding :excadrill: :dracozolt:
I believe sand is in a worse place than it was before. Firstly, while Rillaboom does seem to be on the decline, new priority users in Weavile (which Dracozolt hates) and Urshifu (which Excadrill hates) have replaced it as top threats of the metagame, and Bisharp still remains fairly prominent.

Secondly, both are increasingly easy to wall in this meta. While Hippowdon definitely was on the decline, it has become much more popular recently in WCoP. Here's the Round 1 usage stats:
Screenshot_2021-06-11-13-33-51_kindlephoto-1202881777.png

I think it's reasonable therefore to ignore the old noms for it to go down and only read the more recent rise ones, and it is (or should be at least) running specially defensive sets 100% of the time, and Landorus-T has started running specially defensive sets now as well, as I mentioned in my post in the main discussion thread. These two Pokemon are definitely the best counters in the tier to Dracozolt. Excadrill hates Corviknight being so good as it can do nothing meaningful against it, and when a team doesn't have Corv it always has something else that easily walls it (such as Skarmory, Zapdos, or the rising Rotom-W, Tangrowth and Buzzwole.)

I would consequently support a drop for both. While Tyranitar's viability does seem mostly tied to sand's at the moment, I would be more inclined to keep that where it is, since it does provide some useful defensive utility, and it's also part of the arguably more consistent Garchomp sand.
 

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