Resource SS OU DLC2 Viability Ranking Thread [SEE: Page 105, Post 2618]

Status
Not open for further replies.

TailGlowVM

Now 100% more demonic
It feels like Volc is really strong right now, so I'm very confused as to why it only had ~6% usage in round one of WCoP? Does anyone with more familiarity with R1 have any ideas?
Probably because Volcarona can be a bit inconsistent. Even if it has the tools to beat every Pokemon in the tier except Dragonite and Heatran (both common in WCoP) , it can't use them all on one set so a lot of stuff walls it. You lose to Toxapex and Urshifu without Psychic, Swampert and Gastrodon without Giga Drain or Safeguard, Blissey and numerous bulky Toxic Pokemon without Safeguard, Victini without bulky Bug Buzz, Tyranitar and Garchomp without Bug Buzz... the list goes on. It's been said that the reason Volcarona was able to sweep so easily was because we had checks and weren't using them, and the rise of Tapu Fini, Dragonite, and specially defensive Landorus-T among other Pokemon supports this.

It's partly for these reason I believe Volcarona is a bit overrated and I am not sure if it should rise to A+, and I think once we're actually prepared for it it will seem far from broken.
 
:Garchomp:

I don’t see why Garchomp should drop from A+, it’s possibly an S tier Pokémon still. The choice of utility or sweep potential is too strong. It’s typing is too useful for both common pics like zeraora, and rarer picks like victini

quick replay from just now to illustrate the point, Garchomp is still too good, offensively and defensiely

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1355516019

:Primarina:

I’d like to nominate Primarina to A.

primarily because there are 3 OU Pokémon that can reliably switch in to her wall breaking set: Blissey, Chansey Ferrothorn. Only ferro thorn is a genuine nuisance, and there is potential to overwhelm it.

here is the set:


Primarina @ Metronome
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 48 HP / 252 SpA / 208 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Substitute / Flip Turn

• the HP investment makes it a decent lead, giving it good survival chance from every STAB earthquake in OU and tanking electric attacks such as zapdos volt switch after your sub is broken

• alternatively you can run max speed to speed tie max speed neutral aegislash. There is limited advantage to timid, outside of beating 0 Spe Mew.. Bisharp is another threat, but it can’t

• Flip turn is good if you’re bothered by chansey/blissey. Otherwise substitute is better against almost every other team.

• Very reliable Pokémon to break at least 1 bulky Pokémon. 100% accurate high power moves with strong secondary effects really synergies with metronome. I’d argue she’s the best abuser of metronome in OU.

• Hits a massive number of OU threats for SE damage! In fact, fun tidbit , there are litte offensive Pokémon’s in the top 20 that resist at least 1 STAB whilst being at least neutral to the other. Rillaboom hates scald burns, Kartana can’t come in once metronome has given 1.2x or 1.4x boost.. Melmetal is annoying, so refrain from using sub if it’s in play!

• Stall teams have the following options to wall this set: Shedinja, Wish/protect specially defensive Clefable, and the pink blobs. So threats that take advantage of these work well.

• Anectdotal, but it feels like I’m seeing a lot more blissey in the 1750-1950 ladder rating range, I’m assuming Primarinas scary set which puts teams on the back foot from turn 1 has some sort of contribution to this!
 
Last edited:

BT89

go on, take everything
is a Pre-Contributor
:Primarina:

I’d like to nominate Primarina to A.
I disagree with this nomination whole heartedly. Just because only 3 Pokemon can switch in on you does not make you immediately A in my opinion. Primarina faces heavy competition from the heavily increasing Tapu Fini, who generally pulls off Calm Mind better. Primarina is both slower than and has a worse ability than Tapu Fini as well, making the competition even worse. Sure, it breaks stall, but so do many common things right now, since stall is falling out of favor still. The main reason Blissey usage is rising is because of Dragapult being so common, not because people are running a mon that is generally inferior to a better option. I think Primarina should stay in B- or drop to C+. The sudden rise of Tapu Fini again in the meta makes life for Primarina really hard.
 
I disagree with this nomination whole heartedly. Just because only 3 Pokemon can switch in on you does not make you immediately A in my opinion. Primarina faces heavy competition from the heavily increasing Tapu Fini, who generally pulls off Calm Mind better. Primarina is both slower than and has a worse ability than Tapu Fini as well, making the competition even worse. Sure, it breaks stall, but so do many common things right now, since stall is falling out of favor still. The main reason Blissey usage is rising is because of Dragapult being so common, not because people are running a mon that is generally inferior to a better option. I think Primarina should stay in B- or drop to C+. The sudden rise of Tapu Fini again in the meta makes life for Primarina really hard.
try using the set as a predominate lead. That’s where it excels, as teams are put on the back foot when using dragaputl/lando/Urshifu and other common leads.

offensive threats like rillaboom that might be lucky to get a foot in, then have to worry about 50/50 decisions about attacking or pivoting mean that you’ll get more opportunities as the game progresses.

its not apples to apples, as a CM Primarina set is D grade, and near useless in OU. Tapu fini is a support/set up type. Primarina is a strong offensive pressure type. Completely different dynamic.

the popularity of blissey does affect it somewhat.. unfortunately. But blissey is notorious for being easily played around.

as always,a replay:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1355553313

Sadly I lost this match to a mis click. Tho you can see what Primarina can do first hand.
 
Last edited:

B to B+
Despite the sky high prevalence of Dragapult, in addition to the rise of prominent Dark types, I believe it is time for a rise in Aegislash. As a slightly oppressed competitor of the SS OU metagame, one of the few things I appreciate is it’s wide array of sets. SD, Mixed and Sub Toxic are all notable and effective in this meta with other options like Band and Specs also being plausible. (Mixed Aegislash in particular destroys common mons seen on stall such as Clef and Pex.) It’s worth noting that in a metagame that values bulkier walls like Corviknight and Slowking which it can come in on and destroy with it's STABs, Aegislash can excel and easily find opportunities to punch a huge hole. Furthermore, Aegislash also has great synergy with a couple of pokemon, most notably Rillaboom, as it’s able to not only aid it with recovery but weaken Ground moves for it. Aegislash can both capture the quality of both an offensive and defensive presence, despite the fact that it can struggle a lot vs Offensive teams in some cases by virtue of it's low speed tier. Still all in all, Aegislash is defined well by it’s marvelous ghost typing that provides it with an ability to pressure most meta pokemon, the ability to play both as more defensively and offensively oriented, and with the ability to further adapt itself towards the conditions of some of the rising defensive threats in the metagame.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield in Psychic Terrain: 117-138 (44.8 - 52.8%) -- 29.7% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield in Psychic Terrain: 106-126 (32.7 - 38.8%) -- 6.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Lele: 404-476 (143.7 - 169.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Lele: 270-318 (96 - 113.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 90-106 (34.4 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 240-284 (74 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kyurem: 494-584 (126.3 - 149.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 328-387 (83.8 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 246-290 (94.2 - 111.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 246-290 (75.9 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragapult: 384-452 (121.1 - 142.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: 343-405 (100.5 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 273-322 (85.5 - 100.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rillaboom: 306-360 (89.7 - 105.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Steel Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 456-537 (127.7 - 150.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Both Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Buzzwole: 378-445 (90.4 - 106.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 247-292 (62.6 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 168-198 (55.2 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 92 SpD Amoonguss: 246-289 (57 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Corviknight: 235-277 (58.7 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Ferrothorn: 157-186 (44.6 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 1 layer of Spikes, and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 128+ SpD Heatran: 175-207 (45.3 - 53.6%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 132+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 228-270 (57.8 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 542-642 (137.5 - 162.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 273-322 (71.4 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 202-238 (48 - 56.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

LO sets can achieve most of the same calcs with Rocks up btw.

4 Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 286-338 (74 - 87.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 543-642 (76 - 89.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Ferrothorn: 224-265 (63.6 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 1 layer of Spikes, and Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 556-655 (137.6 - 162.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Steel Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Mandibuzz: 297-349 (70.2 - 82.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock(if boots get knocked off)

A+ to S: Agree (Behind Pult and Lando for sure)
to S: Disagree
1623133123472.png
A to A+: Agree
1622517249055.png
B+ to A-: Agree
1623133052451.png
B+ to A-: Agree
C to C-/UR: Agree (Get this dogshit outta here)
 

scorbunnys

Don't dream your life, but live your dream. #Bunny
Hewwwo! scorbunnys is now going to do another VR post.
I also sent an incompleted version of this...
s/o Unicorns for have ''hewwwo'' on her status and give me the idea for steal it =).
:suicune: B to C+
This mon is mediocre at best, Vincune is just sorta outclassed by Kyurem, which is faster and can reliably beat Pex without relying on PP Stall (tho beating Clefable reliably it's potentially a neat niche), and Crocune can be easy to abuse given that RestTalk isn't too reliable, and Fini is usually a better option, i still do think that Pressure + Checking Clef is a cool niche on Vincune and it also checks Volcarona decently, but it should drop to C+ imo.
It dropped already yey!

:volcarona: A to A+/S-
Quiver Dance sets are just...so customizable, it can even run techs such as Safeguard and custom the spread for tank 1 Aqua Jet from Urshifu RS/Crawdaunt Choice Band and lure them via Giga Drain for example, which is a pretty nice tech because it's able to custom the sets/spreads a lot. Offensive 3 Attacks has also it's merit, it can actually run more moves, making it better vs Toxapex/Hydreigon. I still think that its 4MSS keeps it far from S, so A+ looks fine for now (even tho id push it to S- because its so customizable and powerful)

ausma So, i'd prob wouldn't be doing this nom if wasn't for you, because you were the person which gave me permission to do this nom.
1623201484551.png

:ss/sylveon: UR to C-
This thing has lived on the shadows for a while, however, I firmly believe that this mon can carve a niche right now it's about to get blacklisted thanks to my obscure past thoughso that's why i asked to ausma, tho i do have real points right now.

1: Good SpD Bulk:
This is a quite good advantage of this mon over Clefable, as thanks to this it can just tank hits from stuff such as Dragapult, Kyurem, NP Tornadus-Therian, Tapu Koko and it can also scare out some setup sweepers such as SD Rillaboom, DD Dragonite or even SD Kartana (doesn't run Smart Strike too often) with Yawn, allowing it to be a pretty cool non-passive Wish mon and Cleric support.

2: Hyper Voice + Pixilate:
This is quite simple honestly, as thanks to this ability it hits through Sub Kyurem and SubDD Dragapult while also narrowly discouraging other threats such as SubNP Hydreigon and SubNP Tornadus-Therian from sweeping, allowing it to be a quite good anti-HO tool.

3: Yawn:
Yawn is worth to mention because it can force switch-ins on checks such as Heatran, Melmetal or Glowking, making it hella annoying to switch into.
Now you could be thinking, but then u can just switch-in right?

R: Well, that's actually correct, however, the idea of Yawn is being on some Spikes teams, i'll provide two teams below:
:sylveon::skarmory::dhelmise::volcarona::garchomp::toxapex:
:sylveon::skarmory::garchomp::toxapex::reuniclus::excadrill:
:sylveon::skarmory::volcarona::garchomp::dragapult::zeraora: (s/o Windingsss for helping)


Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1355617913-xrzsyuwinyqhi9pumr7gl3w97trhiojpw (Sylveon was able to put pressure to its resists via Yawn and it was able to keep itself healthy for be a reliable Dragapult switch-in).
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1354398108-b31epggz12bqhbqbm0ir5dd52vkvoifpw (It was able to clean up an HO)


It still lacks the Clefable's versatility and the Phsy Def bulk without enough investment, so thats why I'm only nominating it to C-, as it provides Wish support while also being a quite good anti-HO countermeasure.

:ss/golurk: UR to C-
I started using this mon as a dumb meme, but now i believe that it has nice traits.

1: Resistance to Rocks and decent bulk:
I find this being a pretty valuable trait, because it can come to the field a good amount of times. It also has a decent amount to bulk too, making it able to take stuff such as LO Clefable Moonblast while also retaining an inmunity to TWave, which is pretty valuable because that makes it a decentish wallbreaker which can come to the field a decent amount of times.

2: Nearly unwallable dual STAB + Access to Trick + Nice movepool:
Poltergeist + Earthquake + Trick its actually pretty hard to wall, because theres some mons which can tank it, such as Buzzwole, however, it gets crippled by Trick. It also gets a nice coverage in form to Dynamic Punch for have a better chance to KO Blissey and its able to 2HKO Ferro even if it got Knocked Off its item. Ice Punch its good for hit Lando-T as well.

3: No Guard:
Poltergeist & Dynamic Punch are actually consistent moves thanks to this ability, because they are not 100% accuracy moves and this ability makes those moves not fail. Despite that, its still a double edged sword because now it cant dodge moves such as WoW or Toxic, but its still mostly benefitial for the mon.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1355626093-6aidqle4e9f8mlonoo940sar9luphd6pw (Golurk was able to put Ferro into Lycan Dusk range, which is rly valuable because I dont have many SpAttackers and I didnt want to risk lots of chip on Lycan Dusk)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1355644287-hc9rz45eqnp6vnbhh62q3h1jev3ks27pw (It killed lots of stuff and Spikes helped it)

Its slow and hard to fit on teams so id let it on C- only.

Agree With:
:clefable: to S-
:heatran: to S (S- looks better to me tbh)
:slowking: to A+
:regieleki: to C-
:mew: to B
:noivern: to C-
:lycanroc-dusk: to C-
:incineroar: to UR

Disagree With:
:regieleki: to UR
:landorus-therian: to A+

Edit: I forget that ausma gave me an spread for Sylv:
Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 208 Def / 48 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Yawn
- Wish
- Protect
This spread lets you live rocks into specs pult shadow ball into another shadow ball at -1.
 
Last edited:
:ss/toxicroak: UR to C
Toxicroak @ Black Sludge / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Bulk Up
- Taunt

I saw TailGlowVM recently posted about defensive Toxicroak in the heat thread + discord so I might as well bring it up here too (basically copying my own post from the heat thread). For what it's worth, I independently came up with the set (down to the moves, item, and EV spread except I put the extra 4 EVs in Atk ) on my own about a month ago and have been spamming it on a rain team in the upper-ish ladder recently, which is probably how it ended up catching on in discord, I assume.

The logic initially was that Toxicroak checks/counters many annoying mons to Rain such as Rillaboom, Kartana, Urshifu-R, Toxapex, and Ferrothorn, but I also came to realize it does a good job with other mons such as Weavile, Bisharp, Banded Tyranitar, non-Earthquake Buzzwole, Blissey/Chansey, and opposing rain (e.g., Barraskewda, Crawdaunt). Additionally, it is a good Knock Off absorber and with Taunt + Bulk Up it's also a pretty decent stall breaker while beating stuff like setup Corviknight (even if it has Brave Bird).

Note I said "check" and not "counter" for a lot of this stuff because with good prediction Toxicroak can struggle and it also kinda depends on Rain for recovery (I have not tried it outside of Rain). Toxicroak has pretty bad defensive stats and definitely needs all the bulk it can get so I wouldn't change the EV spread.

I'm pretty set on the moves, but it's worth mentioning that Knock Off is the most spammable one for making progress early game when Toxicroak gets in. I've also been experimenting with Rocky Helmet > Black Sludge to better punish U-turn (Urshifu-R + Rillaboom) and since Toxicroak often gets hit with a Knock Off early game anyway (at the moment I still prefer Black Sludge tho).

Overall, recent meta trends have been very favorable to Toxicroak; it checks/counters a surprising amount of common OU threats. It usually puts in a very solid amount of work and careful doubles to Rain breakers on the obvious Lando-T switch can also go a long way. If someone wants I'll post some calcs later but it's late here and I'm lazy.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1354490259-4qbdz373j2vetz66y4qyxe2t71vcqhxpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1353680382-u6ttf5mqm3bzvl15wm1k6g2ymdv140jpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1352784003-exk5ca2jzjsz03wdtvk35gbs4dvhfsfpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1352506498-ylid6o9r1eazqtbc7vhoc2kdpi2w3e3pw (fuck stall)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1352502334-cpqhjzrvpxe272z6xv2nwz07wsmfnhkpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1336147221-f79fram447rpj33qah8j2tw09d423vypw
 
Last edited:
:Kartana:

the banded set from Kartana is absolutely devastating. Choice scarf doesn’t have the juice for the current meta, life orb fell out of fashion due to losing critical bulk, but that banded knock off puts most STAB users to shame.. literally it’s only held back by the fact that it doesn’t have any STAB with either high power or good utility.

:Slowking:

Not a fan of its rank at all, it’s falling out of fashion as quickly as it rose. Future sight is a good move but I feel teams are better prepared for it, as they play less “defensively”.

:Nidoking:

it feels like it’s lacking firepower right now, ironic since it should have plenty of it, but I think it’s the key speed tiers that it misses.. such as losing in speed to Urshifu and Kyurem. Both are everywhere...

:Tornadus-therian:

big threat, mostly on the back of its ability to harass at worst, or break at best, an entire team.

we all know the offensive and utility sets, however..

i have been having a lot of fun with an assault vest set, it needs rapid spin / defog support, but runs very well in a meta where dragapults, kokos, bulky psychics and the dreaded tapu lele hate losing their item.

One knock off from this Pokémon against most annoying special attackers puts them in range of common scarfed, setup or priority attackers.

super importantly, it can tank a hit from a lead kyurem [Warning: specs ice beam has a 25% chance to OHKO this set, so avoid the switch in and make sure you have a partner that disincentivises the use of that move. 164HP/ 176 SpD / 176Spe can reduce the chance to 12.5%] and knock it before a u turn out, making it much easier to deal with for the rest of the match. There’s not much special attackers that can OHKO it, lele is the main threat that can with specs psyshock, so you’ll need to prepare for it..

the set:

Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 188 HP / 144 SpD / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Heatwave

• Speed is fast enough to outrun up to base 110 timid. You will lose to a scarfed magnezone however.. The special defense is enough to take the most common attacks whilst you have enough HP for rillaboom.

• I have dabbled with various options for heatran, but really don’t like focus miss. If someone finds something better for heatran, let me know
 
Last edited:
Sylveon blacklist when?

Serious noms, Golurk is surprisingly useful. Choice Band hits like a truck and it can even set up Rocks since you only need EQ, Poltergeist and CC/Edge depending on what coverage you want. It isn't that bulky and it needs support to switch in, but when it works, it's amazing.

Mew is an amazing Spikes setter and I've experimented with sets without WoW so that I could fit more utility in, like having Roost, Knock Off and Dragon Tail on the same set, or replacing Dragon Tail with Taunt or even Encore

Weavile is an amazing Mon in the tier right now. Most Dark resists have either no recovery (Ttar, Fini, Moistshifu), are weak to Ice (Hydreigon, Bulu and Mandibuzz) or are just bad at taking hits (Bisharp, Crawdaunt and other Weavile). This leaves Clefable, Buzzwole and Toxapex as the onlys real switchins to Weavile. Absolutely deserves a rise.

Fini and Buzz should also rise, very useful mons
 

xray

how u doin'?
is a Tiering Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
World Defender
I feel like Heatran has been one of the best mons in the tier for a while. It provides lots of defensive utility and can also be a great offensive tool. Its pretty unique typing together with great stats qualify it for S rank in my eyes.
Despite of Slowking being very easy to put on any kind of team and providing valuable defensive utility and good offensive support in Future Sight, I do not think it can keep up with the other mons in S rank and would therefore support a drop to A+.
To me Garchomp is one of the most dangerous mons in the tier and I do not think that it is worse than Lando-T. Its benefit over Lando-T is a better offensive presence and that it can switch into Heatran and Bisharp more reliably. The defensive Helm-Set can be a fantastic support, whereas the offensive SD-Set will be able to break holes into any kind of team. Consideration for S rank.
I feel like Bisharp has seen better times. People have adapted and the metagame right now is not very pleasing for it with all the Buzzwolespam and Darkresists running around. Drop to A-
I feel that Buzzwole and Tapu Fini both deserve to raise. Different kind of sets have been spammed in WCOP. Tapu Fini is also very versatile in regards to sets. It can run Sub/Taunt + CM, Choice Scarf or Whirlpool as well as defensive Defog. It's a great addition to Bulky Offense teams as it provides temporary defensive utility and has the ability to break through unprepared teams. Buzzwole simply covers a lot in the metagame right now and thus, is very splashable onto teams. However, the metagame is going to develop and only time will tell in which rank these two should end up.

Edit: I also feel like Ninetales-Alola and Zapdos-Galar have seen quite some usage recently and are more than just niche mons at the moment. Putting them into a higher rank could definitely be considered as well since these are both great mons on a great playstyle (HO). I also think that Rotom-H could be considered.
 
Last edited:
:ss/toxicroak: UR to C
Toxicroak @ Black Sludge / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Bulk Up
- Taunt

I saw TailGlowVM recently posted about defensive Toxicroak in the heat thread + discord so I might as well bring it up here too (basically copying my own post from the heat thread). For what it's worth, I independently came up with the set (down to the moves, item, and EV spread except I put the extra 4 EVs in Atk ) on my own about a month ago and have been spamming it on a rain team in the upper-ish ladder recently, which is probably how it ended up catching on in discord, I assume.

The logic initially was that Toxicroak checks/counters many annoying mons to Rain such as Rillaboom, Kartana, Urshifu-R, Toxapex, and Ferrothorn, but I also came to realize it does a good job with other mons such as Weavile, Bisharp, Banded Tyranitar, non-Earthquake Buzzwole, Blissey/Chansey, and opposing rain (e.g., Barraskewda, Crawdaunt). Additionally, it is a good Knock Off absorber and with Taunt + Bulk Up it's also a pretty decent stall breaker while beating stuff like setup Corviknight (even if it has Brave Bird).

Note I said "check" and not "counter" for a lot of this stuff because with good prediction Toxicroak can struggle and it also kinda depends on Rain for recovery (I have not tried it outside of Rain). Toxicroak has pretty bad defensive stats and definitely needs all the bulk it can get so I wouldn't change the EV spread.

I'm pretty set on the moves, but it's worth mentioning that Knock Off is the most spammable one for making progress early game when Toxicroak gets in. I've also been experimenting with Rocky Helmet > Black Sludge to better punish U-turn (Urshifu-R + Rillaboom) and since Toxicroak often gets hit with a Knock Off early game anyway (at the moment I still prefer Black Sludge tho).

Overall, recent meta trends have been very favorable to Toxicroak; it checks/counters a surprising amount of common OU threats. It usually puts in a very solid amount of work and careful doubles to Rain breakers on the obvious Lando-T switch can also go a long way. If someone wants I'll post some calcs later but it's late here and I'm lazy.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1354490259-4qbdz373j2vetz66y4qyxe2t71vcqhxpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1353680382-u6ttf5mqm3bzvl15wm1k6g2ymdv140jpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1352784003-exk5ca2jzjsz03wdtvk35gbs4dvhfsfpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1352506498-ylid6o9r1eazqtbc7vhoc2kdpi2w3e3pw (fuck stall)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1352502334-cpqhjzrvpxe272z6xv2nwz07wsmfnhkpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1336147221-f79fram447rpj33qah8j2tw09d423vypw
Alternative EV spread / set options - basically make sure to run 16 speed EVs to stop Crawdaunt. Some high level replays also below the linked comment.
 

Clone

Free Gliscor
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Hippo should definitely rise to A-

It's proven itself in WCoP by being a strong alternative to Garchomp/Lando and trades offensive presence and versatility for being the most sturdy of the three (free gliscor when). Reliable recovery enables it to be a more sturdy Koko/Zera check, while simultaneously providing a Pult answer and being a decent answer to Heatran, Torn, Bisharp, and Volcarona. It can also sit on a few fatmons without too much worry and spread status or burn turns for whatever reason. I was never a fan of its drop to begin with, and it seems to me people are catching on that it's traits over the other two grounds warrants usage on more defensively-inclined teams that appreciate its longevity. It was #14 in usage during round 1 and sported a 55% winrate. Nothing crazy, but it shows that it's seeing an uptick in usage and isn't unviable. It's also a key member on the infamous 500 turns to win semistall that made the rounds in a lot of WCoP matches (the team was Hippo/Scizor/Torn/Clef/Pex/Hydreigon) and that team is a good demonstration of its usefulness, no matter how painful those games are to watch.

I will admit that Hippo is one dimensional in its role, as it needs full SpDef to check what it needs to and tends to be pretty passive outside of spreading status and moderately damaging EQs, but the team archetypes it fits on mitigate these flaws to where its strengths shine. I feel Hippo is definitely more in line with the mons in A- than those in B+ and should rise.
 

romanji

you deserve someone better
is a Tiering Contributoris a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
First post in the OU VR, mainly based on World Cup.

Rises
to S: Heatran is one of the best glue Pokemon in the tier, able to soft check some of the best wallbreakers such as Kartana, Rillaboom, and Volcarona. Its ability to trap defensive Pokemon such as Toxapex,
to A+: Much like Kyurem, after the Magearna and Cinderace bans, Weavile has shot up to being the best late-game cleaner in the tier. Most of the Most of the Pokemon from A- to S cannot safely switch into it, as the ones that can fear their items being removed by Knock Off. Some sets have even chosen Icicle Crash over the stronger Triple Axel, to avoid contact effects such as Rocky Helmet from Corviknight and Buzzwole or Flame Body from Volcarona.
to A+: Urshifu has a unique speed tier, outspeeding pokemon such as Tapu Lele, Kyurem and Landorus-T. Fighting / Water coverage is fantastic, while U-turn is used to pivot out of problematic matchups against Toxapex. Future Sight support from Slowking helps this. Aqua Jet is also fantastic for picking off Volcarona.
to A+: I was a bit confused when this was dropped in the last VR, but the bird is the word once again. I've been using Heat Wave as the coverage, as I would rather have the better accuracy and sacrificing the Heatran and Tyranitar coverage, as in many scenarios, it would just be better to bring in it's teammates, while still taking advantage of Regenerator.
to A: Tapu Fini has emerged as a fantastic check to the rising Weavile and Urshifu, but has also seen its Choice Scarf and other utility moves it can use. Defog, Taunt, Knock Off, and Trick are all fantastic options to get fit what ever utility you would need on your team.
to A: Multiscale + Heavy-Duty Boots was an Arceus-send for Dragonite, now being able to take full advantage of its defensive capabilities without worrying about Stealth Rock, while also setting up with Dragon Dance. It is one of the best checks against Heatran, being able to use it as set-up fodder, and threatening to KO it with Earthquake. Ice Beam is also great coverage for opposing Dragonite and Garchomp attempting to check it.
to A-: Buzzwole is a fantastic blanket to many of the physical attackers such as Garchomp, Weavile, Rillaboom, and Kartana, further compounded by Rocky Helmet, while also having reliable recovery in Roost. Its coverage is extremely varied to deal with it's checks respectively, such as Earthquake for Toxapex, Poison Jab for Tapu Fini, and Stone Edge for Volcarona.

Drops/Abstain
to S-: While Slowking still deserves to be considered an S tier, and it's influence on the tier is very noticeable, but it is not on the levels of Landorus-T, Dragapult, and Heatran.
keep A: Volcarona is absolutely one of the most dangerous Pokemon in the tier to face, but we have seen much more Pokemon and coverage against it such as Tankchomp, Heatran and Stone Edge from Buzzwole. It also has horrible 4-moveslot syndrome, with Psychic for Toxapex, Bug Buzz for Tyranitar and Slowking, and Safeguard to guard against Thunder Wave and Toxic, so teams can adapt to it knowing what coverage it runs.
keep A: Rillaboom is mainly a testament to Pokemon such as Buzzwole and Dragonite, but it is still a fantastic. Grassy Glide is able to check many of the strong offensive Pokemon such as Weavile and Urshifu.
to B/B-: What does this even check anymore? Dragapult? Rillaboom? Dragapult can U-turn on it and bring in a threatening teammate such as Weavile, and Rillaboom can remove it's Heavy-Duty Boots, and also U-turn into a better matchup.
to lower: Sand has not had a great time, especially with the rise of Urshifu and Buzzwole, their shared weaknesses have become very exploitable. Specially Defensive Tyranitar is very passive, while Choice Band is very prediction reliant and very exploitable. Excadrill's poor bulk also leaves it susceptible to common priority such as Sucker Punch from Bisharp, Grassy Glide from Rillaboom, and Aqua Jet from Urshifu.
to UR: Don't use this. Walled by every Ground-type and outclassed by Tapu Koko for screens which has U-turn to provide momentum for teammates multiple times instead of sacrificing itself with Explosion, which is still relatively weak compared to other suicide leads such as Landorus-T or Mew.
 
Last edited:
First post in the OU VR, mainly based on World Cup.

Rises

to lower: Sand has not had a great time, especially with the rise of Urshifu and Buzzwole, their shared weaknesses have become very exploitable. Specially Defensive Tyranitar is very passive, while Choice Band is very prediction reliant and very exploitable. Excadrill's poor bulk also leaves it susceptible to common priority such as Sucker Punch from Bisharp, Grassy Glide from Rillaboom, and Aqua Jet from Urshifu.
It's funny that ya say that because as a long time Samd abuser (and exclusive player since IOA came out) I think Sand is honestly in a better place than ever before. A decrease in Rilla helps Sand a lot, not only that but an increase in metal birds/not Hippo grounds =better breaking for Urshifu who breaks a lot of what Sand struggles with.

Buzz being more useful than ever means better match up against sands weaknesses and the rise of the metal birds, Slowking, and Chomp/Lando-T leads means a better meta for Zolt egeb if there running Special Defense especially with my own sand team which you will see on high ladder, if you have found it. I think sand is better than it has been since the Kyuh/Zygarde Meta honestly.
 
:Rillaboom:

Its no secret Rillaboom is extremely potent, if predictable.

in the current meta it technically doesn’t fit the definition of an S type Pokémon. tho to what grounds can the support provided by its terrain give it viability ranks?

Its true that it doesn’t have diverse options and checking it is a thoughtless process where a lot of its checks are go-to Pokémon’s in team building.

however... grassy terrain is arguably the most useful terrain in the current meta, and Rillaboom is the dominant setter.

could this be grounds to consider making Rillaboom higher?

It’s grassy terrains provides massive support for Pokémon such as:

- :Melmetal: who can use it to check almost all common physical threats not called Urshifu, and spread status/force switches

- :Garchomp: who can become a surprisingly reliable switch in to zapdos - which it can survive 2 hurricanes from - and heatran, recovering 25% over two turns after switching into magma storm if it carries leftovers. surprisingly it doesn’t really care about earthquake becoming weaker, because almost all switch ins to Garchomp are better hit with an alternative move.

- :Heatran: With grassy terrain support, heatran is possibly the most frustrating Pokémon for any team running a lot of special attackers/passive Pokémon, as it gets semi-consistent recovery due to the fact that it loves switching in to a lot of the Pokémon’s Rillaboom hates. Some players even use surprise sets with nature power to overwhelm some of heatrans checks.

- :Excadrill: Like Garchomp, this ones a little non-intuitive, but bulkier excadrill become reliable switch ins into almost everything offensive that switch into Rillaboom, and can spin away hazards. Also similar to Garchomp, you rarely worry about earthquake damage reduction on the things you switch into, like a revenging Koko, tornadus-T, zapdos and lele. Excadrill also appreciates the improved matchup against Landorus, perhaps the most common stealth rock user in OU

- :Volcarona: with grassy terrain support Bulkarona variants are legitimate counter plays to meta threats, the recovery can restore hp lost to uturns, give it that little bit extra to survive important damage rolls, etc. it also helps that there is strong synergy with Bulkarona checking Kyurem, Corviknight, Skarmory, Melmetal, Weavile and other nuisances. The most fun one to switch into is a buzzswole drain punch/leech life.

- :Slowking-Galar: which can become a better pivot than its regional variant, once its major weakness is reduced

- :Kartana: Grass spam is a thing for a reason! Kartana pairs so nicely with Rillaboom, possibly a better partner than Magnezone in some matchups!

Rillaboom really is a type of Pokémon that you really won’t worry about if it can’t pull it’s weight offensively in a game. Maybe you’re up against a team with all of mandibuzz, corviknight and dragonite, but your grassy terrain might mean you don’t care as your Heatran gets plenty of recovery over the match..

If you’re playing matches where every damage roll counts and your EV spreads have been optimised to deal with the most meta threats, you’ll notice those little 6.25% HP boosts the most.
 
Last edited:

TailGlowVM

Now 100% more demonic
Regarding :excadrill: :dracozolt:
I believe sand is in a worse place than it was before. Firstly, while Rillaboom does seem to be on the decline, new priority users in Weavile (which Dracozolt hates) and Urshifu (which Excadrill hates) have replaced it as top threats of the metagame, and Bisharp still remains fairly prominent.

Secondly, both are increasingly easy to wall in this meta. While Hippowdon definitely was on the decline, it has become much more popular recently in WCoP. Here's the Round 1 usage stats:
Screenshot_2021-06-11-13-33-51_kindlephoto-1202881777.png

I think it's reasonable therefore to ignore the old noms for it to go down and only read the more recent rise ones, and it is (or should be at least) running specially defensive sets 100% of the time, and Landorus-T has started running specially defensive sets now as well, as I mentioned in my post in the main discussion thread. These two Pokemon are definitely the best counters in the tier to Dracozolt. Excadrill hates Corviknight being so good as it can do nothing meaningful against it, and when a team doesn't have Corv it always has something else that easily walls it (such as Skarmory, Zapdos, or the rising Rotom-W, Tangrowth and Buzzwole.)

I would consequently support a drop for both. While Tyranitar's viability does seem mostly tied to sand's at the moment, I would be more inclined to keep that where it is, since it does provide some useful defensive utility, and it's also part of the arguably more consistent Garchomp sand.
 

Jaajgko

I will disband the soccer club
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
:Rillaboom:

Its no secret Rillaboom is extremely potent, if predictable.

in the current meta it technically doesn’t fit the definition of an S type Pokémon. tho to what grounds can the support provided by its terrain give it viability ranks?

Its true that it doesn’t have diverse options and checking it is a thoughtless process where a lot of its checks are go-to Pokémon’s in team building.

however... grassy terrain is arguably the most useful terrain in the current meta, and Rillaboom is the dominant setter.

could this be grounds to consider making Rillaboom higher?

It’s grassy terrains provides massive support for Pokémon such as:

- :Melmetal: who can use it to check almost all common physical threats not called Urshifu, and spread status/force switches

- :Garchomp: who can become a surprisingly reliable switch in to zapdos - which it can survive 2 hurricanes from - and heatran, recovering 25% over two turns after switching into magma storm if it carries leftovers. surprisingly it doesn’t really care about earthquake becoming weaker, because almost all switch ins to Garchomp are better hit with an alternative move.

- :Heatran: With grassy terrain support, heatran is possibly the most frustrating Pokémon for any team running a lot of special attackers/passive Pokémon, as it gets semi-consistent recovery due to the fact that it loves switching in to a lot of the Pokémon’s Rillaboom hates.

- :Volcarona: with grassy terrain support Bulkarona variants are legitimate counter plays to meta threats, the recovery can restore hp lost to uturns, give it that little bit extra to survive important damage rolls, etc. it also helps that there is strong synergy with Bulkarona checking Kyurem, Corviknight, Skarmory, Melmetal, Weavile and other nuisances.

- :Slowking-Galar: which can become a better pivot than its regional variant, once its major weakness is reduced

- :Kartana: Grass spam is a thing for a reason! Kartana pairs so nicely with Rillaboom, possibly a better partner than Magnezone in some matchups!

Rillaboom really is a type of Pokémon that you really won’t worry about if it can’t pull it’s weight offensively in a game. Maybe you’re up against a team with all of mandibuzz, corviknight and dragonite, but your grassy terrain might mean you don’t care as your Heatran gets plenty of recovery over the match..

If you’re playing matches where every damage roll counts and your EV spreads have been optimised to deal with the most meta threats, you’ll notice those little 6.25% HP boosts the most.
I like your approach to Rillaboom but I think it's also important to consider how the grassy terrain might benefit your opponent as well. Most of the time Rillaboom invites in flying types and your switch-in to that is often grounded (i.e. opponent goes Zap and you go into Chomp/Heatran/Slowking), so you often get to benefit from it a couple more turns than your opponent, but it still has the potential to help your opponent, by turning a 2HKO into a 3HKO, taking less chip on the Heatran switch, or by taking less damage from EQ (which is not easy to build without since ground types are so important). Since you have control of when it goes up, and your team is gonna be built in a way that makes it more useful, it's usually gonna benefit the Rillaboom user, but it has its flaws. I think it works best on offensive teams, because as you said Rillaboom needs teammates to help breaking through its checks, as it's not very good at making progress by itself against a prepared team (steel birds/buzzwole/bulky bird + 2nd check) so it needs offensive support (zone, rocks, future sight), which bulky teams can't provide much, and also because bulkier teams already have very good tools to stay healthy, while offensive teams appreciate greatly the extra longevity provided by the grassy terrain to help them reduce chip damage from life orb, hazards or status.
An interesting partner for Rillaboom is Zeraora as well, because with Zeraora you don't have to run a ground type on your team, which means you can avoid the annoying counter-synergy of grassy terrain weakening your EQs, while helping Zeraora deal with ground types, giving it the extra longevity that it really needs, and generally the stuff that checks Zeraora is beaten by Rillaboom and vice-versa. It can potentially boost Zeraora's Grass Knot as well, though it's not a great move on Zeraora atm.
My point is that Grassy Terrain requires smart building and specific team environment to benefit well from it, meaning it lacks a bit of splashability, which plays an important role when talking about a mon's viability. That being said, it's definitely a good addition to offensive teams which are really good in the meta.
I think you have some good takes on the meta from what I've seen, so keep up the good posts I like reading them.
 
Jaajgko it was nice to read that, very well explained

I didn’t consider Zeraora as much of a Rillaboom partner, however it does seem obvious now, as it loves coming in on most flying types.

flying is - by viability weighted usage - the best type in the current meta, so any switch ins are valuable. I think the fact that Rillaboom is so viable despite the high incidence of flying types really does show the utility its terrain can bring.

:Slowking-galar:
on the topic of grassy terrain, the Pokémon I thought benefited the most, was actually slowking-Galar. Specifically the physically defensive set.

not to take away from its strong independence, even without terrain support. Although terrain helps it with threats like dragonite.

otherwise..

It ignores toxic and can tank most hits. I’m a big fan of the physically defensive set, as it checks Urshifu, still puts up against most non-bulky kyurem sets, and can cope to a degree with most special attackers, including the terrifying specs psyshock lele!

and... it can put up a fight or status the big 4 threats (dragapult, heatran, Landorus-T, Garchomp)

it survives choice specs shadow ball, and earthquakes from 3 of the big 4, whilst threatening a 2hko at worst. Importantly thanks to regenerator, it can usually remain at the 85% HP or more threshold it needs to be at. It does lose handidly to heatran unfortunately

At least one of thunder wave and ice beam are essential on a phys-def set.. I have experimented with scald but find it not very useful. Usually it’s better to run trick with a black sludge for 2x the utility as a team shuffles around its switch ins

also, as someone who loves running offensive, fast tempo teams, and coincidentally this also means frequently weak to flying types, it’s important to always remember the hawlucha check. Something that’s easy to miss with a high momentum team. Galatian slowking only needs about 65% to come in on hawlucha, making it a great check compressor.
 
Last edited:
I do not think exca should drop any further than B since it has good potential to clean and pressures teams relying on corviknight and skarm with zone. It has a decent defensive typing and bulk allowing it to check koko, hurricane zapdos, clefable. With team support such as torn-t it can help the MU vs phys def tang, and rillaboom. In no way I think excadrill is as bad as C+/B-, does it need a lot of team support? Yes. But after those threats are gone its just a road to cleaning the team since its not a 1v1 with exca its a 6v6 and you can easily support it with knock, magnezone, rocks/spikes.
 
Jaajgko it was nice to read that, very well explained

I didn’t consider Zeraora as much of a Rillaboom partner, however it does seem obvious now, as it loves coming in on most flying types.

flying is - by viability weighted usage - the best type in the current meta, so any switch ins are valuable. I think the fact that Rillaboom is so viable despite the high incidence of flying types really does show the utility its terrain can bring.

:Slowking-galar:
on the topic of grassy terrain, the Pokémon I thought benefited the most, was actually slowking-Galar. Specifically the physically defensive set.

not to take away from its strong independence, even without terrain support. Although terrain helps it with threats like dragonite.

otherwise..

It ignores toxic and can tank most hits. I’m a big fan of the physically defensive set, as it checks Urshifu, still puts up against most non-bulky kyurem sets, and can cope to a degree with most special attackers, including the terrifying specs psyshock lele!

and... it can put up a fight or status the big 4 threats (dragapult, heatran, Landorus-T, Garchomp)

it survives choice specs shadow ball, and earthquakes from 3 of the big 4, whilst threatening a 2hko at worst. Importantly thanks to regenerator, it can usually remain at the 85% HP or more threshold it needs to be at. It does lose handidly to heatran unfortunately

At least one of thunder wave and ice beam are essential on a phys-def set.. I have experimented with scald but find it not very useful. Usually it’s better to run trick with a black sludge for 2x the utility as a team shuffles around its switch ins

also, as someone who loves running offensive, fast tempo teams, and coincidentally this also means frequently weak to flying types, it’s important to always remember the hawlucha check. Something that’s easy to miss with a high momentum team. Galatian slowking only needs about 65% to come in on hawlucha, making it a great check compressor.
Just wondering what the PhysDef EV spread is/what benchmarks you tried to hit. I definitely agree that it's got a decent niche probably, and Trick + Black Sludge is great as you mention.

I think a Defensive Leech Seed Tapu Bulu makes for a decent partner, although Rillaboom offers a lot as well - probably depends on the team composition in question, but Grassy Terrain is just great for G-Slowking regardless.
 
:slowking-galar:> A- Galarian Slowking has been gaining a lot of usage recently in WCOP and for good reason with the rising Tapu Fini keeps gaining popularity being able to handle and its wide variety of coverage along side the amazing move in Future Sight makes it not be really passive. While it wishes to have the move in Teleport from Slowking, it still does fairly well with the different options for the last moveslot Ice Beam hitting Landorus-T and Garchomp, Scald that can potentially burn things that try to switch into it or even Hydro Pump for hitting Ground-types and Heatran hard are just amazing coverage options that can be played around hitting plentiful of things in the meta. Its ability to check some tiers threats like Tapu Fini, Tapu Koko, Kyurem, and Clefable are really handful for teams these days and Future Sight paired with strong Wallbreakers are all nice qualities deserving for it to rise a subrank.

:victini:> B+ While this thing needs a lot of support is required and sometimes won't do its job properly or sometimes won't even do something in a game, however its prescence is something to always consider as Victini can be quite threatening with its coverage choices. The usage of Slowbro has greatly plummeted and Toxapex these days being mostly Special Defense all benefit for Victini and its coverage moves to deal great amount of damage on teams with Bolt Strike hitting bulky Water types hard not named Rotom-W or Gastrodon, and Glaciate being able to pick off weakened Ground-types are nice things for Victini when it doesn't need to be spamming V-Create. There is even the possibility in running Will-o-Wisp instead of Glaciate since its able to cripple against Glaciate targets but then a lot more weakening there attacking stat while also get prone in getting worn down from burn damage. There are other sets around like Choice Scarf or Band that have seen some usages, but are as consistent, but with the amount of move options and possible sets are worth for Victini to rise a subrank.

:Magnezone:> B+ Magnezone is still pretty decent though I feel the meta has adapted to it where A- isn't cutting it really anymore since its ability to trap some of its main targets have adapted to it where Corviknight can U-Turn into an expected Magnezone or potentially drop some defense and can run some speed for it, though Skarmory is also able to do that which is being a lot more common and hitting hard in return. Its ability to be able to trap Ferrothorn is still nice and handy, but Ferrothorn is as common as a spike setter compared to Skarmory and the recently rising Mew, so while its still pretty decent in trapping some things, I feel A- isn't where it truly belongs.

:mandibuzz: > B I have to agree with TailGlowVM where Mandibuzz should drop another subrank while its ability as a mixed wall helps it cover things like Kartana, Rillaboom, Dragapult, and Excadrill but then it really struggles to do its role as a defogger when compared to other such as Corviknight, Tornadus-T, and Tapu Fini. It really is easy for Mandibuzz to get overwhelmed in trying to cover a lot and is really easy for teams to use Mandibuzz to their advantage, while its ability to check Dragapult is nice for some teams even people using Dragapult can play around Mandibuzz to the point it could be exploited, hence why it should drop a rank.

:excadrill:> B/ B- Ox already talked about why this thing should drop and is in a bad spot, but I'm going to add more into it, the usage of things like Corviknight, Skarmory, Rotom-W, Landorus-T, Buzzwole, and the list goes on and right now the meta is really against it. There's a possibility that it could be used to check Tapu Koko or even Clefable, however, its lack of recovery makes it easy for it to get chipped down, and maybe it could be decent in removing hazards as a spinner, but won't be able to be doing that often especially when hazard stacking is becoming a lot more common from seen in WCOP, once known as one of the best mons in the tier has fallen a lot and the current meta is not doing any favors for it.

:swampert:> B- Swampert has been declining a lot lately and for good reason the reason why you want to use this is Electric Immunity entry hazards setter that is also a pivot thanks to Flip Turn, and is able to check things like Tapu Koko, Heatran, and Volcarona, thats about it for its good qualities since it lack of reliable recovery makes it easily get prone down by chip especially status conditions so trying to keep this nice and healthy is going to be and issue. It even faces competition these days now from Hippowdon who is able to set up hazards and check all of those pokemon a lot better and has a form of recovery for longevity, even Gastrodon that shares the same typing is able to check those even better with a good recovery and two great abilities in Storm Drain for water immunity and Sticky Hold being one of the few pokemon to never lose its item from Knock Off or Trick which has been seen a lot in WCOP, Swampert is decent but really isn't worth using from other hazard setters or pivots making it an inferior picks for teams these day and B tier means it still has some decent properties which isn't true.

:cresselia::uxie:>C- or UR Trick Room teams as a whole have fallen off and are really inconsistent or even seen rather memey, and these two in particular have no other purpose outside of setting up trick room and then providing momentum with lunar dance or memento from the latter and can also set up Stealth Rock. Considering how much of a bad spot is right now and how these where prime setters for Trick Room it's probably better to have them be ranked down or even possibly unranked, though Trick Room has its few moments time to time, so I guess keeping them C- is fitting for a playstyle that has fallen gracefully.

:thundurus:> UR What does this even do again I remember someone telling me its decent on webs for Defiant, but if you wanted something to deny hazards to be removed for offensive teams Bisharp and even Galarian-Zapdos are better at it, this mon also fails into comparison to Thundurus-Therian which is decent on Rain teams that is able to abuse it with Weather Ball and Thunder and even acting as a electric immunity thanks to Volt Absorb, really there is no reason to use over Tapu Koko and Zeraora for offensive electric types so there really is no reason why it should stay in ranked.

:mantine: > UR At first the reason saving this from keeping it ranked was its ability to check Urshifu-R and Volcarona while being able to remove hazards and even has Haze to be able to remove stat buffs which seems like nice qualities for a niche mon, even though Mantine can't really switch into Urshifu-R Close Combat, but then it feels into comparison from other mons that are able to check most things that Mantine does an offer more utility as well such as Toxapex, Tapu Fini, and Dragonite, so while the ability to remove Hazards and somewhat check those mons listed, is it worth using compared to other things that offer a lot more with something that is very passive and won't even do its main effectively, so to being unranked I feel would make a lot more sense.

Other Noms I agree with:
:weavile:> A+
:urshifu-rapid-strike:> A+
:dragonite: > A/ A-
:tapu fini:> A
:hippowdon:>A-
:buzzwole:>A-
:rotom-wash:>A-
:tangrowth:>A-
:mew:> B
 
I have nominated Milotic in the previous rounds of VR for SS OU and I'll do it again.

Milotic should at least be in the C ranks of OU viability. In the current metagame, I have had great success with flame orb Milotic in my balanced team, and has achieved 1700+ points.

Milotic @ Flame Orb
Ability: Marvel Scale
Nature: Bold
EV: 252 HP/ 196 Defence / 12 Sp Def/ 48 Speed
  • Scald
  • Ice Beam
  • Haze/Flip Turn
  • Recover
Flame Orb is no longer a gimmicky item of choice on Milotic as compared to past metagames where the burn damage proved inefficient (some even say detrimental) on Milotic’s walling ability. In particular, with the nerf to burn damage to just 6% per turn and thereafter providing Milotic with an immunity to status, Flame Orb provides Milotic a self-reliant way of obtaining the Marvel Scale (“MS”) boost to its Defence and Milotic can easily regain HP via Recover. The EV investment in Defence allows Milotic to reach 400 Defence when MS is activated, coupled with 394 HP which allows Milotic to check threats that it otherwise originally could not and proceed to cripple them with either Scald (burn), Toxic or dealing heavy damage with Ice Beam (if opponent is a dragon type or weak to Ice) – Scizor, Dragapult (non-hex), Dragonite, Garchomp, and Urshifu-S. Finally, MS Milotic can sponge Knock-Off since Flame Orb is no longer necessary once the burn has set in, and this makes Milotic excellent against ghost types using Poltergeist (Alolan-Marowak etc).

A Milotic with MS activated can tank life orb Dragapult's dragon darts/phantom force, Garchomp's boosted earthquakes and Dragonite's dual wingbeat very admirably and return them the favour with Ice Beam. It is also a soft check to urshifu rapid strike (especially non-choice band variants) and mine has survived life orb Thunder Punches as well. Really, the only times MS Milotic goes down are due to annoying crits if it is against something that doesn't have STAB super-effective moves.

The proposed moves are standard and quite self-explanatory for a defensive Milotic. Notably, Flip Turn can be used to maintain momentum so that a partner pokemon in the team can deal with the threat ahead but I have found Haze more useful in general - unless you have another phazer or Unaware Clefable.

48 Speed EVs allows Milotic to hit 210 Speed, thereby checking Adamant Crawdaunt and most notably Azumarill (especially the Belly Drum set) with Haze to prevent boosting and allowing Milotic to Toxic-stall the same. This investment of EVs in Speed does not reduce Milotic’s bulk thanks to Flame Orb. The remaining 12 EVs are put into Sp Def to beef it up to 289 Sp Def which is respectable for a mixed wall set and allows Milotic to better sponge special hits.

Milotic also works well with ground types such as Landorus-T and grass types such as Ferrothorn, Tangrowth and Rillaboom. Seriously, flame orb Milotic deserves more love. If even things like G-Weezing and Incineroar has a place in OU rankings I don't see why Milotic shouldn't.


PS: Broke into the 1.8k league with flame orb milotic. See this replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1372141590-aumvcobji1xnptjfnbq0bwye81v79kxpw
 
Last edited:
vr gaming #5 uff

:weavile:-> a+: raise. getting a lot of attention in wcop and on the ladder; dark and ice stabs are super nightmarish to switch into. sd sets have been recently getting a lot of attention and have the capacity to tear defensive cores apart at +2. its partners can often be very expendable in building to remove its best checks like scizor, toxapex, and corviknight which are very solid mons themselves.

:dragonite: -> a: currently on the raise dnite train- this is a nom i heavily support. one of the best glue mons in the tier; checking moistshifu, volc, etc. defensive dd sets r very much justifiable with the right support. raise this mon s,h

:toxapex: -> a+: very much agree with ox's initial post before wcop r2 ended. despite fs bo builds as a part of offensive counterplay stretching widely in the meta i feel like a+ is a perfectly fine ranking for pex; there is a big offchance that tspikes will be super free, pult moistshifu and weavile are extremely dangerous rn and it can pivot around both. knock is potent as ever as can force progress against fatter teams- the update was super good but i dont think pex should stay in the middle rung of a rank due to its defensive potency.

:urshifu-rapid-strike: -> a+: covered this in my previous vr post and there are also other posts i agree with regarding this mon

c- rly needs a deep cleaning as 7/12 of the mons there are bad either due to better meta choices available, there has been 0 usage etc. usage =/= viability of course but in terms of roles this can be very verbatim. i heavily appreciate the efforts of the vr council; cant wait for the next update. raise grimm tho

other people's stuff i agree with

:buzzwole: -> a-
:rillaboom: -> a-
:hydreigon: -> a
:slowking-galar: -> a-
:tapu-fini: -> a
:heatran: -> s
:excadrill: -> b-
:swampert: -> b-
:bisharp: -> a-
:mandibuzz: -> b

other people's stuff i dont agree with

:primarina: -> a (lol???)
:clefable: -> s-
:volcarona: -> s- (init nommed for a+ but i definitely think s- is a huge stretch)
:melmetal: -> a
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

Top