Resource SS OU DLC2 Viability Ranking Thread [Read post #235]

View attachment 306074 C+ -> B-.

The pivot set from last DLC with boots, knock off and volt switch is still really good. While Dragapult is no longer as relevant, Zeraora has new targets like Spectier, Fini, Tornadus-T, and Cinderace. Aside from Regieleki, this thing still outspeeds the whole unboosted tier! Most notably, revenge killing Spectier is a godsend for so many teams.

Offensive teams are often hard pressed to switch into Zeraora. It can knock off its counters, like Landorus-T, while not being worn down itself thanks to boots. Getting chip on the opposing team is made even easier because Zeraora naturally threatens many defoggers, like flying types and hydreigon. The exception is Landorus-T, which again, is susceptible to knock off.

Even against bulky teams, Zeraora harasses them with knock off and volt switch while not allowing defog.

Once the opposing team is weakened, they are often completely unable to beat this thing. It hits a lot of Pokemon super effectively, threatening OHKOs in the late game, and has few type weaknesses, making it hard to beat with the "survive one hit and KO back" strategy.

The grass types that were expected to ruin Zeraora this DLC -- Bulu, Amoonguss, and Tangrowth -- are not very common or good except Tangrowth which is still not a staple by any means. Kartana, which is the highest ranked new grass type, is simply a victim.

tl;dr people wrote Zeraora off after the latest DLC, and while it's worse than before, it's still very good with an amazing speed tier, good coverage, and utility moves.

Side note: I occasionally still see offensive Regieleki -- use Zeraora instead!
I also really like zeraora as a pivot that isn't afraid of zapdos, which is one of the best defensive mons in the meta right now. It's very solid on offense and on balance, and can even work on electric spam with koko powering up its already strong plasma fists
 

ausma

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Hello! I figured I'd give my 2 cents on the mons being discussed and then make a nomination of my own!


Regidrago: C- to Unranked

As far as I'm concerned, this thing absolutely should be unranked; I fully agree. I won't beat it down any more than it already has been, but I genuinely see no niche that it has in the metagame versus any other Dragon-type, especially because it is so readily stone walled by literally any Fairy-type (which is a borderline necessity to have in this metagame). Even when these counters have been removed or mitigated, Regidrago's breaking power leaves much to be desired, also folding to a majority of Special walls and the wide array of Steel-types to bat. When things like Garchomp, Hydreigon, and Dragapult exist in the metagame and are able to provide actual utility to teams in need of progress or consistent wallbreaking, Regidrago as a Dragon-type looks and is beyond underwhelming. Don't use Regidrago unless you're trying to be funny, which it isn't even that good at being anyway.


Heatran: A+ to S

I disagree with this. I feel the Pokemon that constitute being an S tier are mostly defined through polarity, consistency, and a general lack of competition. While Heatran is a very consistent Pokemon very deserving of its rank, I can't see it getting any higher than this, simply because using Heatran has an opportunity cost against using something like Ferrothorn as a Spikes setter, since it compounds common Steel-type weaknesses and limits potential team slots to cover other bases. In other words, it competes with other Steel-types pretty constantly for a team slot, which I think does need to be considered. Additionally, I feel it also lacks that S tier "you-can't-go-wrong-with-this" kick that you get with Urshifu and Magearna, which only further grounds and highlights its proneness to be competed with for that Steel-type/Stealth Rocker slot. Although it is an extremely good Pokemon with a great niche in the metagame, I can't really see it in S tier.


Moltres: A- to B+ or B

Definitely agree with this. Although it certainly has some pretty one-of-a-kind defensive application on teams in need of a good Fighting- and Steel-type resistance while also having STAB Flamethrower and Scorching Sands, it simply just does not perform as well as it used to for three reasons: metagame adaptation, competition, and Pheromosa. For starters, Knock Off spam has become incredibly prevalent in the tier, and given how reliant Moltres is on Heavy-Duty Boots, this is a severe problem for its role as a Defog user, and is worsened by the fact that it only allows Moltres to come in on Ferrothorn once only to get its HDB knocked off and lose its ability to not only consistently remove hazards, but also lose its otherwise awesome defensive application on teams. Things it should check in theory can also 1v1 it even so, with Melmetal adapting with the use of Rock Slide and Cinderace winning 1v1 with Gunk Shot poison. Secondly, it has extremely stark competition with Hydreigon, Mandibuzz, Tornadus-T, and Zapdos as a Defog user, as all more consistently deal with what they're meant to deal with (with Hydreigon beating Heatran and Zapdos beating Ferrothorn with Heat Wave as well), all while not being crippled by Knock Off. Lastly, being in theory the best Pheromosa answer means nothing when Pheromosa isn't even in the tier. I feel its proneness to metagame adaptation and competition, though, are its biggest problems, and I think its ranking should reflect that.


Porygon2: C- to Unranked

100% disagree. Porygon2 has a niche in Teleport + Trick Room similar to Slowbro, but also compresses a Spectrier answer for Trick Room teams, which I think is absolutely vital given how easily Spectrier bodies the archetype otherwise. It also pairs really well with the Slowtwins defensively. I will not disagree that Porygon2 is definitely a niche pick (in part to the fact that Trick Room is a gimmick), but I think it is a pretty strong, defined setter in the TR archetype in current stage OU and I cannot see this thing dropping for that reason.


Latios: B+ to B

Absolute disagree; if anything, I feel it deserves to rise again, but I'll save my thoughts on that for later. Latios may experience pretty troubling 4MSS, wanting to cover several bases at once, but its Specs/LO sets sting like all hell and it has the coverage to take advantage of its power. From my experience, Psychic-type STAB, Mystical Fire, and Aura Sphere are really good for covering as many bases as possible on their own, and it even has Draco Meteor for a good nuking option. Even outside of this, Latios can viably run options like Surf and Ice Beam to mix and match its matchups. What's not mentioned really either is that it does have options and pretty helpful resistances, such as Trick on Choiced variants, Calm Mind, recovery, and awesome resistances in Fighting, Grass, and Fire with an immunity to Ground. I feel Latios is in a bit of a tricky position because of 4MSS, but I think it has a lot of potential to become a strong option in the metagame and lowering it to B where mediocrity begins to become more prevalent does not click with me.


Blaziken: B+ to B

I sadly agree. Blaziken went from an Ubers worthy menace to a really inconsistent, kamikaze hot wing. As a Speed Boost user it's in a really awkward speed tier where it is forced between both Adamant and Jolly, and consequently it is forced to toss up Swords Dance and Protect for either explosive strength or a consistent speed boost. If it uses both, it loses a vital coverage option and autoloses the Toxapex, Latios, Dragapult, Tapu Fini, and Slowbro matchups. If it uses Earthquake/Knock Off/Thunder Punch, the Blaziken user is forced between Swords Dance/Protect, and still has to sacrifice consistency in some matchups anyway. I've found some success on dual screens, but even then it dies pretty quickly due to Life Orb and Flare Blitz recoil. Blaziken is just in a really sad state right now, and I think it's going to be really reliant on metagame trends or a major tech breakthrough if it wants to see success in the tier again.


Zeraora: C+ to B-

I actually do agree with this, but I think there is one detail that was missed in the original submission and that's how good it is at spreading Toxic and Knock Off removals. Its speed tier and operation as a pivot is definitely a point in its favor, but the fact that it can threaten its best switch-ins like Hippowdon, Landorus-T, and Garchomp with dangerous item removals and crippling status does actually help teams quite a bit, and STAB Plasma Fists/Volt Switch is a cool way to pressure or play around a majority of that may be ok with switching into a Knock Off or a Toxic such as Corviknight and Tapu Fini or Amoonguss/Tangrowth/Heatran for Volt Switch. I still think it's really niche because it can be pretty underwhelming and even debilitating otherwise in its new matchups, but it does have some pretty cool points in its favor worth mentioning.

--

And now, here's my own nomination (and it's not niche I swear-):


Melmetal: A+ to A

Although Melmetal is incredibly strong with a Choice Band set and a pretty cool offensive AV user, as a Steel-type it faces a lot of competition from other options like Magearna, Excadrill, Ferrothorn, and Heatran that are either polarizing (in Magearna's case) or compress utility for teams. As far as what it brings to the table, Melmetal being as slow as it is for an offensive Pokemon alongside the prevalence of contact recoil moves makes it very prone to being chipped down throughout the course of the game, and even with this it has a lot of natural defensive answers in the tier, such as Zapdos, Landorus-Therian, Slowbro, Hippowdon, Corviknight, Moltres, and Toxapex that either press it for coverage or give it a difficult time in actually finding the ability to break holes into the opposition. Even adaptations such as coverage options or Protective Pads, I feel, are meaningless, as it means Melmetal is forced to give up the power of a Choice Band or the special bulk given through an AV simply to not be pressured by the aforementioned variables. Fundamentally, I don't think it really works as well in this metagame as it should, since it has so many natural checks and is inevitably going to be chipped down severely and lose value as it loses HP, and it faces a wealth of competition with other Steel-type Pokemon that perform in their roles more consistently. There's a reason it's dropped in use lately, I feel, and I think its ranking should reflect that.
 
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Blaziken: B+ to B

it's going to be really reliant on metagame trends or a major tech breakthrough if it wants to see success in the tier again.
Imma disagree with that. Here is a hot potato for you:

REVERSAL
Blaziken @ Protective Pads
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Reversal
- Knock Off
- Endure
- Swords Dance

This does not care about coverage, because +2 reversal KOs 75% of the metagame and you can get to +4 on slowbro. It's so easy to support this thing because it's stops are so easy to read on the opposing team. I've even gotten stinking mixed, work up sets with vacuum wave to work at like 1800.

Speed boost is a really broken ability, and I think people ignoring the chicken because of just how OP the rabbit is.
 
Imma disagree with that. Here is a hot potato for you:

REVERSAL
Blaziken @ Protective Pads
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Reversal
- Knock Off
- Endure
- Swords Dance

This does not care about coverage, because +2 reversal KOs 75% of the metagame and you can get to +4 on slowbro. It's so easy to support this thing because it's stops are so easy to read on the opposing team. I've even gotten stinking mixed, work up sets with vacuum wave to work at like 1800.

Speed boost is a really broken ability, and I think people ignoring the chicken because of just how OP the rabbit is.
I have tried that set, and is not that good. On paper looks good but is hard to pull off. As you mentioned, slowbro deals with this set. Phys def lando to, and toxic ruins this set and I am not mentioning pex. Priority destriys this. Is a flawd set, it works sometimes but no as consistent as SD three attacks

I have tried that set, and is not that good. On paper looks good but is hard to pull off. As you mentioned, slowbro deals with this set. Phys def lando to, and toxic ruins this set and I am not mentioning pex. Priority destriys this. Is a flawd set, it works sometimes but no as consistent as SD three attacks
Sorry for mentioning slowbro, I meant Clef because this set runs knock off. But beating bro is not the only pokemon u want to beat

Ausma edit: jointed your two posts. please do not double post in the future!
 
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Sorry for mentioning slowbro, I meant Clef because this set runs knock off. But beating bro is not the only pokemon u want to beat
I mean even then. Itemless Pex, Fini, almost all Physical tank walls this thing. Buzzwole, Tangrowth can take a hit and then sleep powder it. Walls that can be beaten by 3 attacks SD LO cant be broken by this set. Hell even Swampert, one of the mons that drop to LO CC, can fight this set.
 
I mean even then. Itemless Pex, Fini, almost all Physical tank walls this thing. Buzzwole, Tangrowth can take a hit and then sleep powder it. Walls that can be beaten by 3 attacks SD LO cant be broken by this set. Hell even Swampert, one of the mons that drop to LO CC, can fight this set.
You right, thats only mentioning the defensive moms, any priority or even scarf spectrier beats this set
 
You right, thats only mentioning the defensive moms, any priority or even scarf spectrier beats this set
Endure can be used like protect to secure extra speed boosts, so Blaziken is only vulnerable if spec comes in the same turn as Blaziken.
Edit: +2 reversal does 75.3 - 88.4% to pex, and +4 ohkos. Slowing galar, who quad resists reversal, takes 60-70%. Pretty much nothing can comfortably eat a reversal from Blaziken.
 
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chimp

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Endure can be used like protect to secure extra speed boosts, so Blaziken is only vulnerable if spec comes in the same turn as Blaziken.
Edit: +2 reversal does 75.3 - 88.4% to pex, and +4 ohkos. Slowing galar, who quad resists reversal, takes 60-70%. Pretty much nothing can comfortably eat a reversal from Blaziken.
How realistic is it that you'll get Blaziken to +4, though, considering you also may need to expend turns to Endure? Genuine question. Saying something can *still* not OHKO something even +4 doesn't seem like a compelling argument to me.
 
How realistic is it that you'll get Blaziken to +4, though, considering you also may need to expend turns to Endure? Genuine question. Saying something can *still* not OHKO something even +4 doesn't seem like a compelling argument to me.
That is a fair point, but it's not too difficult to get two swords dances on a defensive mon with a good read. I also just wanted to point out that even just a +2 reversal cleanly 2hkos both max defense pex and fini, meaning that once you're set up nothing can switch in to Blaziken. Saying that it's flat out walled by those two is incorrect because even if you stay in to KO your wall is down 60-70%, which is especially bad for fini or any other tank/wall without reliable recovery. The only way to take out a blaziken after it's setup is either a very fast scarfer (which doesn't work after only a few speed boosts) or priority. The reversal set is best used on HO teams to blow a few holes in a team before it dies, or potentially as a sweeper on balance/offense once it's checks are removed. It's not the best pokemon, but it's definitely usable and worthy of its rank imo
 
The Reversal set IMO is simply a gimmick for several reasons.
First it requires all Rough Skin, Iron Barbs and Rocky Helmet users to be removed first or to give up the standard pinch Berry boost for Protective Pads. Ok, that's not so bad, if not ideal.
Then you have to choose between Sub and Endure. Sub is good at getting you to exactly 1 HP IF you aren't chipped in any way. You have to take Stealth Rock damage an even number of times or you don't get Reversal to any worthwhile power. You also have to find a turn to Sub on, which is exactly Blaze's #1 problem: it struggles to setup without taking large damage in the process.
Endure sort of fixes that issue by forcing you to exactly 1 HP and letting you set up on your opponent's attacks, but then you are reliant on your opponent's attacks to set up. And it fails to protect you from status, so para might force you to Speed Boost to +4 or even +5 before you're immune to revenge killing while possibly preventing you from using a key attack. Poison just ruins this set obviously, and as does Toxic Spikes.
So overall it's a gimmick that might catch an unwary player out. Does that deserve to be in the VR? Yes. Is that worth B+? No. That's why it's now in B. In fact, IMO when you compare it with other members of B (Hawlucha, Dragonite, Volcarona, etc) it doesn't compare favourably at all. I'd even argue it deserves B- because of how much better other wincons like the three I mentioned perform in the current metagame.

Just want to add my hot take on Zeraora, I'm not convinced it's that much better than most of C+ (which contains several other great mons that have competition issues like Gengar, Terrakion etc) and it faces competition in the "speedy hit-and-run pivot" department from both Dragapult and Tapu Koko. It's access to Knock helps I guess, but then again it's successfully competed with Pult before. I 100% don't see it higher than B-,but perhaps it's worth a raise.
 
This is amazing!

I'm not sure what would happen to :Clefable: now, will she become better or worse? It could be better due to the WishPort set being a lot better, but its usage probably would drop off a cliff due to the main thing it checks being gone.

Also, :Blaziken: might see more Viability due to its biggest competition being gone.
 
This is amazing!

I'm not sure what would happen to :Clefable: now, will she become better or worse? It could be better due to the WishPort set being a lot better, but its usage probably would drop off a cliff due to the main thing it checks being gone.

Also, :Blaziken: might see more Viability due to its biggest competition being gone.
Clef I dont really know. Darks types like bisharp and crawdaunt will rise a bit but Clef doenst check bisharp and crawdaunt crawdaunt hits Clef very hard.
U rapid strike has a water stab to hit it, blaziken a fire one si I dont know really
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

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It's too early to presume what will change with Urshifu-Single Strike gone. It was just banned, so we need to give the metagame more time now to change with its absence. For all we know, some of the Pokemon you guys mentioned like Blaziken, Clefable, Bisharp, etc. could be better or worse, or maybe they won't change in viability at all because other changes happen to keep them where they are. Who knows?

So honestly, I would highly suggest holding off on jumping the gun with speculating what Pokemon will be better/worse until we have a better idea of how the meta changes without Urshifu-S in it, let alone suggesting changes to the Viability Rankings.
 

Jordy

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I think that's enough early one-liners and zero-substance discussion for the time being. It's way, way too early into this new meta to make any serious claims. I suggest everyone lay low and don't make any drastic nominations for the time being. If you want to discuss specific Pokemon, the metagame discussion thread is where you should go instead.
 
It's too early to presume what will change with Urshifu-Single Strike gone. It was just banned, so we need to give the metagame more time now to change with its absence.
Ah yes, the classic sentence at the end of each suspect test.
Let me give me my prediction about that statement.

Nothing about the metagame is fundamentally changed thanks to Cinderace, Spectrier and Magearna spam being around.

Nothing.

Thanks for reading my one-liner.

The problem is those three already restrict the metagame anyways (especially Magearna). Kudos to anyone seeing how this metagame is supposed to ""change"" so much with those mons around which are much worse than Urshifu in my honest opinion, but I disgress: Urshifu got chosen as the first banned part.

I mean sure, Psychic Types like Reuniculus are going to be more common. Until you realize that it still can't do anything against Spectrier or Magearna...


Also, I am wondering if Pangoro increased in viability against defensive teams. SD Gunkshot Knock Off and CC is kinda insane. You can even run Mold Breaker vs. Quagsire. Scrappy is also appealing, until +2 Scrappy Pangoro!Ditto CC's you back.
 
urshifu being banned was inevitable, and although its good that scrubs like me can no longer be carried by banded wicked blow, honestly the metagame won't be *too* different.

one liners aside, i think we’re all anticipating spectrier to make a huge rise. there’s the classic choice specs/scarf set, where you click the funny ghost move, but i think calm mind/nasty plot sets with slight bulk investment is also going to be huge for spectrier. with base 100 hp and 80 spdef, it’s far from a glass cannon.

i think another notable riser is obstagoon, who’s been mildly talked about for a pretty decent amount of time. even before urshifu was banned, i believed that it had its own niche and wasn't just "a worse urshifu". obstagoon's guts ability goes amazingly with its stats and its typing ~ not only is it bulky for a base 95 speed pokémon, but the attack boost from guts is exactly what it needs in tandem with its stab knock off and facade. being able to not care about status is a blessing as well, as many pokémon like spectrier & moltres love spreading burns to cripple physical wallbreakers. if spectrier ends up being as dominant as some hype it up to becoming, then we can expect obstagoon to rise as well, since it pretty much counters spectrier in every way possible.

another thing i personally love about obstagoon is the sheer amount of versatility it has. right now on smogon, its main set is 3 attacks + switcheroo, which is completely fair. however, this pokémon gets plenty of fantastic moves. bulk up can allow it to survive more physical attacks and strike back with ridiculous power. it even has potential to be a win condition if going against slower teams. parting shot lets it pivot out of sticky situations, and lets obstagoon’s ally handle it’s switch-in much better. obstagoon has great coverage moves as well, making a 4 attacks set possible (although very niche).
 
urshifu being banned was inevitable, and although its good that scrubs like me can no longer be carried by banded wicked blow, honestly the metagame won't be *too* different.

one liners aside, i think we’re all anticipating spectrier to make a huge rise. there’s the classic choice specs/scarf set, where you click the funny ghost move, but i think calm mind/nasty plot sets with slight bulk investment is also going to be huge for spectrier. with base 100 hp and 80 spdef, it’s far from a glass cannon.

i think another notable riser is obstagoon, who’s been mildly talked about for a pretty decent amount of time. even before urshifu was banned, i believed that it had its own niche and wasn't just "a worse urshifu". obstagoon's guts ability goes amazingly with its stats and its typing ~ not only is it bulky for a base 95 speed pokémon, but the attack boost from guts is exactly what it needs in tandem with its stab knock off and facade. being able to not care about status is a blessing as well, as many pokémon like spectrier & moltres love spreading burns to cripple physical wallbreakers. if spectrier ends up being as dominant as some hype it up to becoming, then we can expect obstagoon to rise as well, since it pretty much counters spectrier in every way possible.

another thing i personally love about obstagoon is the sheer amount of versatility it has. right now on smogon, its main set is 3 attacks + switcheroo, which is completely fair. however, this pokémon gets plenty of fantastic moves. bulk up can allow it to survive more physical attacks and strike back with ridiculous power. it even has potential to be a win condition if going against slower teams. parting shot lets it pivot out of sticky situations, and lets obstagoon’s ally handle it’s switch-in much better. obstagoon has great coverage moves as well, making a 4 attacks set possible (although very niche).
I wouldn't recommend Parting Shot too much, to be honest. Obstagoon already struggles with chip damage and taking constant rocks damage when using Parting Shot just exacerbates that weakness. It's bulky enough to take one hit after coming in with rocks up a couple times but even then only barely. For example, if rocks are up, switching in 3 times with Obstagoon already causes you to take 54% damage. Obstagoon would rather just attack what's in front of it anyways, and since Buzzwole is predicted to drop to UU this is going to become a lot easier, too.
 
Scarf Goon is fun right now. It's a near perfect Spectrier counter (though normal Gutsgoon is also) and when people see you not burning they often assume you're running Defiant and try to burn you.

I briefly played around with a Banded Goon and when you manage to attract a burn / Toxic Spikes/Baneful Bunker you absolutely wreck defensive mons with Facade. Melmetal, Ferrothorn and the Ghosts are the only real switchins to the Facade, but Ferrothorn is still 2HKOd after Rocks by if it has anything less than max physical defence , and neither he nor Melmetal can take a Close Combat (Both OHKO) and no Ghost in the tier survives a Knock Off without a Colbur berry.

252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Obstagoon Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 234-276 (76.9 - 90.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Obstagoon Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 208-246 (53.8 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Obstagoon Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 331-390 (91.6 - 108%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Obstagoon Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Hippowdon: 282-333 (67.1 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Obstagoon Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 271-319 (67 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Obstagoon Facade (140 BP) vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 161-189 (38.4 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Obstagoon Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Ferrothorn: 144-169 (40.9 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
 
- Don't care about regidraco
- Heatran S Rank Disagree on the same basis I disagree S Rank Torntherian in previous gens, its main attack is shaky, 4 ground weak also gives it a terrible weakness, which brings to Heatran being prediction heavy in several matchups, I don't see it having the teambuilding "stability" the S Ranks usually have.
- It's fine to drop down Moltres, it's another fotm
- Just use Blissey or Chansey
-Yes, Rank down Latios, iirc, I already said my piece on this 'mon, it's depressing using this 'mon this gen.
- Eh, the metagame isn't doing Blaziken any favors, I could see it drop down.
- Zeraora is technically faster than Spectrier, and has good coverage+volt switch, so I can see a niche, either way, don't think that something like hatterene has a major impact in the meta than it.
- Completely disagree on Melmetal, as long as fairies like Magearna, Clefable, Fini and Lele are around, it's always going to find a way, this 'mon is everything base Metagross wanted to be, VERY strong attacking power, good coverage, bulk, Steel and no weakness to ghost/dark, like in gen 3-5 but play along.
 
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Zneon

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Cinderace -> S

I know someone already nommed this but I want to bump it, I feel Cinderace right now is either the best or 2nd best Pokemon in the tier behind Magearna right now in my opinion and its metagame influence, splashability and potency make it a class above the rest of the Pokemon in A+, I want to delve into why that is.

I want to talk about is just how hard it is to effectively punish Cinderace consistently; if there is a bad matchup that Cinderace will run into then all it really needs to do is U-turn and that's pretty much it. You can run into a Tapu Fini for example and not have Gunk Shot, doesn't matter, U-turn out of there with no consequence. That's one of the main reasons why Cinderace is such an easy Pokemon to both use and slap onto your team, you can run into a bad matchup but it will just get out of there, chip that check low enough to where it can overpower it late-game or just bring in a check to them. Pyro Ball / U-turn / High Jump Kick is really the only moves you need, Zen Headbutt / Gunk Shot / Sucker Punch / Electro Ball etc can be your late move and I don't think the pivot set will ever get bad or lose effectiveness because of how good those first 3 moves are. Cinderace is a very flexible Pokemon and is not limited whatsoever when it comes to choosing what moves it wants, it picks and chooses its checks and counters with such ease and that's amazing.

Now with how Cinderace influences the metagame, it's pretty much established that Cinderace is one of the hardest Pokemon to efficiently chip down without something like Rocky Helmet or Iron Barbs, and what have we need more of? Rocky Helmet. Urshifu-S is banned and Rocky Helmet still has not decreased in viability or usage on the Pokemon who uses it, Toxapex especially and that is mostly because of Cinderace, its such a hard Pokemon to switch into and it puts so much pressure on teams that don't have a way of adequately punish it that Rocky Helmet has been constantly seeing usage, that really does show how Cinderace centralises the metagame around it.

So yeah, Cinderace is an exceptional Pokemon and better than everything else in A+ in my eyes, and I don't even think the gap between Cinderace and Magearna is that big to warrant it not rising. Cinderace for S rank.

Other noms I agree with:

-> B+
-> B
-> B-
 
Is there a reason to keep ace in A+. That mom does eveything u need and it does it well. Very few reliable check, boots is the most common set, Banded lacks some longevity, but it hits very hard, and actully prevent pex from coming for free (ace best check)
You can try electro with life Orb and work up (it is just a fun gimmick)
But in conclusion Cinderace is S and I dont think that there are arguments against that.
 
Zneon made the good version of the nom nothing much to say. There will be more of it in action but this SPL replay that happened this morning a good example of fierce Cinderace could be.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-536429

Once the last countermeasure for Ace knocked out team feel apart. Lycan played the game how they were suppose to with Cinderace and you can see how rocks played no part due to HDB. This is the nature of Cinderace against a lot of archetypes used currently.

I agree with most of the noms mentioned above, others I'm neutral on or don't care for like Regidrago. Anything below B always irrelevant to me since they're usually not meta.
 
Rises
:Cinderace:: A+ --> S
This mon is easily the best in the tier right now and definitely deserves to be S rank. Its standard coverage of pyro/HJK/gunk/u-turn can hit nearly the entire tier super effectively and can spam powerful u-turns on things that would be able to take a hit. It can also run options like sucker punch, court change, and zen headbutt which can be extremely useful in some matchups.

:Tornadus-Therian:: A --> A+
Tornadus-t has gotten a lot better recently with people realizing how broken NP is, assuming u hit everything, and also with the utility set that's been going around. Regen boots makes it a defogger that seemingly never dies and always annoys the opponent's team with knock + u-turn.

:Dragapult:: A- --> A
Dragapult is in a great place right now primarily due to its dragon darts hex t wave u-turn set. This set is fantastic at forcing progress onto opponent's team through status + u-turn and can often clean late game with powerful darts/hex. Infiltrator is also extremely useful right now being able to hit through spectrier and kyurem's subs.

:Hydreigon:: A- --> A
Offensive and defog hydreigon are both in a great spot right now and are extremely splashable. NP has been rising in popularity recently in order to punish teams that can only normally check the defensive variant of this mon.

:Tapu Koko:: A- --> A
The best tapu right now, koko is one of the most annoying things to switch into + a great speed control option. Thunderbolt + dazzling gleam can be hard to switch into over the course of a game especially if you rely on landot to check it, which slowly gets whittled down.

:Zeraora:: C+ --> B-
I think zeraora is extremely underutilized right now and is another great speed control option. We recently saw bea bring it in SPL and won with it after weakening Landorus-t. A lot of teams right now only rely on clefable/landorus-t to check it and both of these can be weakened fairly easily.

Falls:
:Melmetal:: A+ --> A
Melmetal is still a great mon but with all the landorus-t, cinderace, garchomp, and slowbro going around it can more of a liability to use on a team, especially when you take so much rocky/rough skin damage.

:Mandibuzz:: A --> A-
Mandibuzz is in such an awkward position right now, barely being able to check the things its supposed to check, like spectrier and rillaboom. It's also extremely prone to being knocked off and statused, leaving it easily whittled down by rocks and momentum moves.

:Tapu Fini:: A --> A-
Fini has found itself struggling in the recent metagame, not really checking any mons in particular and having issues getting past certain mons like slowking-g. It's also very easy to wear down through rocks and tends to get chipped down in a match without providing much support.

:Excadrill:: A --> A-
My reasoning for exca dropping is very similar to melmetal dropping, with landot, ace, chomper, and slowbro all making it harder to use. Rillaboom has also been on the rise recently which is awful for excadrill. It still has some niche being one of 2 rapid spinners in the tier, but it's harder to justify using it on a team when it's so easily walled.

:Moltres:: A- --> B/B-
This things pretty bad, very knock weak and status prone. It's nice for fishing for burns but asides that it has little niche.
 
RISES

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A+--> S this mon is easily S tier for a lot of reasons, the first reason is because it can beat its check quite well, gunk poison screws up slowbro, moltres and hippo, uturn does a lot to slowbro, moltres is fucked by gunk poisons and hippo has to spam slack off to even check this thing. Cinderace really only needs gunk and hjk and with uturn and high speed it can chip a lot of mons like (chomp, lando, swampert, mandibuzz, hydra). Another thing is that so many mons can't get in to cinderace, hjk hits heatran, tyranitar and if you fini or clef well you're screwed by gunk shot and u will die. Pyro hits a lot of mons for neutral damage. Sucker is really good for rain and revenge killing and dealing with dragapult. This mon is easily S tier for breaking and doing chip to put it in cinderace range, it always does work in every battle. Rank this mon in S tier right now.

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B+ --> A- Kyurem is a dangerous offensive threat in this meta, Specs with freeze dry and earth power hits everything for neutral damage and is super scary to deal with, most teams get 6-0ed by specs kyurem. Another set i have been using is the sub kyurem set which is super dangerous. Sub roost is also super good in this meta and is good at pp stalling.

Moveset: Freeze dry, Sub, ice beam, earth power
item: leftovers
evs: 56 hp, 252 special attack, 200 speed
Modest nature
Kyurem can get in on most mons like heatran, toxapex, hippo, mandibuzz, swampert, zapdos and under a sub its super hard to deal with, most mons cant switch into kyurem under a sub and you will easily win the game.

DROPS

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A --> B

This mon really sucks in this meta, it fails to check spectrier and is relies on boots to much and is very prone to status and knock. It wants to be a pivoter but it also wants to spread status. But it cant do that when its forced to run 2 dark moves (knock, foul play), Its not a good defogger mainly because it cant defog much and is outclassed by other better defoggers that can do its job better. I dont get why this mon is in A rank, it really is not good in this meta.
 

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