Resource SS OU DLC2 Viability Ranking Thread [Read post #235]

Windingsss

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I want to nom :cinderace: from A to A+

Yes, maybe Cinderace is not as good as before because of not being the quickest mon on the tier, but it still has a lot to offer. While HDB may not be the best option right now because of Pheromosa doing the same and actually in a better way, Choice Band offers an inmense amount of power. Choice Band allows Cinderace to dish out powerful hits and to nail common switch-ins like Slowbro and Landorus-Therian with U-Turn and Pyro Ball, respectively.

With useful moves like Gunk Shot, High Jump Kick, Sucker Punch, U-Turn, Zen Headbutt and Pyro Ball (All of them with STAB thanks to Libero) Cinderace can deal with most of the useful Pokemon in the metagame, like Clefable, Magearna (Which both are S tier, but you already know that), Heatran, Melmetal, Blissey, Ferrothorn/Kartana, Fini, among others.

Last but not least, Cinderace can pivot out of unfavorable matchups and bring a good teammate to deal with the opponent while dishing a lot of damage thanks to Libero ( + Choice band if you running it).
 
Well that's not necessarily true. If the options it is forcing on the opposing team makes the opposing team suboptimal as a result then it would still warrant a rise.
No. A pokemons viability is decided entirely by how well it performs on a game to game basis when you decide to put it on your team. Even if spectrier forces every team to run a dark type, the fact that every team is running said dark type makes it harder for spectrier to put in consistent results without support and a good gameplan (thus A+ rank). Its not S+ for the same reasons the fish was banworthy while it was A rank; because it forced every team to run a water immune it was unhealthy, but because every team ran a water immune its game to game performance was above average instead of completely overbearing. Threat in the teambuilder does not equate to success in games, which is ultimately what the VR is trying to rate.
 
To not regurgitate other people's points I think Kyurem should probably rise to A- Specs and Sub sets are still extremely good and can just claim stuff against bulky teams and usually can just 6-0 rain if you focus blast the ferro. I think A- is entirely appropriate for it. Look at Specs matchup with all of S and A, it's pretty good.

If you don't have a Chansey, it is probably going to blow a hole in your team at some point in the game if the focus blast rngesus smiles upon you. Sub sets are a particular menace for many teams to deal with and basically picks what checks it, I have seen sub EP Freeze Dry as well as the mixed mono ice set. Just a versatile, strong and bulky mon that rarely does nothing, I really don't think Specs has any bad matchups, at a bare minimum it's going to trade with something.
 
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Sorry if this is a dumb question but I genuinely dont understand what niche skarmory has at this point. I know it was originally used in some stall teams but he is a typical defensive mon that gets destroyed by everything that is good vs stall, its outclassed as a defoger by zapdos/moltres/corviknight it is only really good at situational spiking which is terrible this gen anyway.. I only saw it a couple of times on ladder and when I did it was always the worst mon it the game. Its really think it doesnt hold an actual niche in this meta game unless I am missing something
 
Sorry if this is a dumb question but I genuinely dont understand what niche skarmory has at this point. I know it was originally used in some stall teams but he is a typical defensive mon that gets destroyed by everything that is good vs stall, its outclassed as a defoger by zapdos/moltres/corviknight it is only really good at situational spiking which is terrible this gen anyway.. I only saw it a couple of times on ladder and when I did it was always the worst mon it the game. Its really think it doesnt hold an actual niche in this meta game unless I am missing something
One direct niche I can think of for Skarmory over the other birds is, ironically, as a suicide lead. Since it has Sturdy, Stealth Rock, and Spikes, with the recently released Custap Berry, it can get Stealth Rocks up on turn one and eat any single hit due to Sturdy. Then due to Custap, it can move first on turn two and get Spikes up even if the opposing Pokemon is faster. Of course, if Skarm isn't directly threatened it can get up even more layers. The only thing preventing this strategy is a faster Taunt user. I don't think this is the best set in practice but it absolutely is a niche role it can peform and worthy of a ranking as such.

I agree with most of the viability list, I might add my thoughts on some picks later though.
 
No. A pokemons viability is decided entirely by how well it performs on a game to game basis when you decide to put it on your team. Even if spectrier forces every team to run a dark type, the fact that every team is running said dark type makes it harder for spectrier to put in consistent results without support and a good gameplan (thus A+ rank). Its not S+ for the same reasons the fish was banworthy while it was A rank; because it forced every team to run a water immune it was unhealthy, but because every team ran a water immune its game to game performance was above average instead of completely overbearing. Threat in the teambuilder does not equate to success in gamesultimately what the VR is trying to rate.
This is not what I meant by this, so maybe I should restate what I mean. I did not mean threat in the teambuilder is enough for a rise on the VR. But if Spectrier forces the opponent to run a suboptimal choice which the Spectrier user's team can take advantage of, then this would still warrant a higher ranking. If the counterplay to Spectrier easily shut it down in a way that didn't compromise the opponent's response to its teammates, then I'd look to see it dropped. For the record I think it's fine in A+. Mandibuzz is a competent mon and Blissey beats non-Sub sets. But if you started seeing Blissey run Shadow Ball every time I'd reconsider Spectrier for S no matter how hard that set would counter it. Because it'd free up another teammate to take on Blissey with the loss in utility caused by running such a set.
 
Some food for thought on mostly rain mons:

Pelipper B- to B+
Rain is isn't as good as last gen but its getting pretty close. It's stupidly easy to cheese up the ladder just using Pelipper and 2-3 abusers. It doesn't really even matter which ones. Also, Pelipper is viable as its own standalone mon with Choice Specs. I think rain as a playstyle deserves a solid B at the moment, with Pelipper being slightly better than its partners due to the Specs set.

Barraskewda B-to B
Barra has risen in usage because it is the most common and brainless rain abuser there is. It is a one-mon offense wrecker and best abuser of Flip Turn. Under the right circumstances (team preview matchup, or simply chipping down its checks) it can click Liquidation several times and claim as many mons. It certainly has drawbacks (lack of bulk, priority) but it feels better than other B- mons (Incineroar? Hatterene?).

Seismitoad C- to B
Mega Swampert-Lite but is a very capable Swift Swimmer with Choice Specs. Maybe people haven't abused it in this capacity yet, but it is just as bulky as Kingdra and can use Weather Ball, which is slightly stronger than Kingdra' Surf. Most importantly, Seismitoad's niche is the coveted electric immunity. Seismitoad's role compression for rain warrants a higher tier. Also, Seismitoad can easily break through Pex with Earth Power.

Kingdra B- to B
Kingdra is slightly better this gen but has mostly been overshadowed by Skewda. Special Swift Swim is better in practice than Physical Swift Swim. Past gen threats such as Tangrowth, Ferrothorn, and Toxapex now often run more physically defensive sets. Kingdra is as good as the other two Swift Swimmers and should be raised because it offers a few key perks:
-4Xs water Resist (great for Rain mirror matches)
-Draco Meteor & Hurricane
-Neutrality to Grass (cough Grassy Glide)

Thundurus-Therian C to B-
It's electric immune, 101 Base Speed, Fantastic typing, Nasty Plot and good coverage. It can defeat the blobs and cut through fat balances like butter. It's particularly evil towards Sand builds in Rain vs. Sand matchups. It's overshadowed by its better cousin Tornadus-T but is noticeably stronger in the wall-breaking department. It feels slightly worse than Crawdaunt, so B- seems like a good fit.

Volcanion C- to B-
Yeah it's slow but its bulky and strong as fuck. I'm not sure why its ranked so low, as Steam Eruption in the rain is disgustingly spammable and 2HKOs Blissey. In 1v1s, Volcanion just overpowers damn near everything. It also has Water Absorb to annoy other rain teams, and can abuse both Weather Ball and Fire Moves against opposing weather matchups.

Dragonite B to B+
I'm not sure where to place this thing but B feels too low. It has very little counterplay in the late game. HDB + Multiscale is cheap as fuck. It can sweep, stall, wall, defog. I think Triple Axel Mosa is the only reason this isn't ranked higher.

Salamence UR to C-
The fact that Gyarados is ranked but Salamence isn't is blasphemous. Salamence is one of those mons that is viable when you do use but there is just no reason to use it. It's bulky as fuck and can either wall or sweep easily thanks to Intimidate. It can check some scary shit (Heatran, Cinderace, Kartana, Blaziken, Rillaboom, Volcarona, Barraskewda), has recovery, and HDB is a broken item.
 
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Sorry if this is a dumb question but I genuinely dont understand what niche skarmory has at this point. I know it was originally used in some stall teams but he is a typical defensive mon that gets destroyed by everything that is good vs stall, its outclassed as a defoger by zapdos/moltres/corviknight it is only really good at situational spiking which is terrible this gen anyway.. I only saw it a couple of times on ladder and when I did it was always the worst mon it the game. Its really think it doesnt hold an actual niche in this meta game unless I am missing something
I've been using it quite a bit this meta, and I would say it has a slight niche, in that it can compress your spiker, defogger, steel and flying type together (corvi can do 3 of those things but not spike), while having slightly better physical bulk than corvi, at the cost of quite the worse special bulk. It also gets phazing which corviknight doesn't, which can be a help on some stall teams. It's body press is also stronger than corvi's. If wearing a rocky helmet it can beat melmetal in the same way moltres can while setting up spikes along the way, while also checking pivot phero, lando-t,excadrill,chomp that doesn't run fire blast,kartana,rilla... in a dire situation it also has a good chance of taking a one for one with urshifu ss(it takes urshifu two strikes to knock skarm out, and two rocky helmet procs and a body press have a pretty good chance at taking it out in return); tbh it can leverage its' sturdy if at full health to save you from a sweep from other setup sweepers too fast for your other stuff if they are chipped like dd phero. So while it isn't the best pokemon ever, it does have a niche, mostly due to its' role compression and basically for doing 90% the same thing as corviknight anyways while having small edges over it in some aspects
Dragonite B to B+
I'm not sure where to place this thing but B feels too low. It has very little counterplay in the late game. HDB + Multiscale is cheap as fuck. It can sweep, stall, wall, defog. I think Triple Axel Mosa is the only reason this isn't ranked higher.
honestly even triple axel mosa should fear espeed if it's even remotely chipped
 
Volcanion C- to B-
Yeah it's slow but its bulky and strong as fuck. I'm not sure why its ranked so low, as Steam Eruption in the rain is disgustingly spammable and 2HKOs Blissey. In 1v1s, Volcanion just overpowers damn near everything. It also has Water Absorb to annoy other rain teams, and can abuse both Weather Ball and Fire Moves against opposing weather matchups.
.
I feel like the problem with Volcanion is that it's way too niche. It's only really functional under rain and with specs. Volcanion is also easily replaced with something else on rain and is not a staple on it like Barra + Peli. Yes it hits hard under rain... and? It's way too weather reliant and doesnt do enough damage outside of it imo. It also has a bad defensive typing and quite slow than what I want it to be. It also has the trouble of picking HDB or Lefties. Without HDB, its affected by rocks and without lefties, it longevity is compromised. I think C- is fine for Volcanion. Maybe C. But not B. It's certainly not on the likes of Suicune, Aegislash, Pert levels of impact on the metagame.
 

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:ss/nidoking:

To A rank

Nidoking has pretty much established itself as one of the scariest things for a balance team to face. Because the metagame is so bulky at the moment and mons such as Toxapex, Clefable, and Ferrothorn are top 10 in usage, Nidoking is a really helpful tool to have on your team as it shreds these mons (and subsequently the ClefPex core) with ease. The list of popular, tanky mons that are defining this really bulky metagame are all mons that Nidoking is really putting in work against; Heatran, Mandibuzz, Zapdos, Moltres etc. By virtue of being such a good mon at removing these tankier mons/teams, it clears the way up for other Pokemon such as Rillaboom for example (that enjoy Moltres Zapdos and friends gone) to be more effective in a game. It completely invalidates a whole playstyle (balance) at times and having a mon that does so well against these teams in one slot is of such great utility and is usually a key to winning games. With the popularity of these bulkier mons that Nidoking gets rid of easily, it can really be of huge utility to any team, especially those that do actually struggle with those mons (I think anybody would like a mon that removes ClefPex easily). I understand why it was A- initially and that's because of its lack of any defensive utility (although sometimes it can switch into Magearna volt if you predict correctly) and struggling against offense (even then if you get it in at the right time via a slow volt switch or something, rarely does anything on offense want to deal with it), but I'm at the point where I just think that near 6-0ing a whole playstyle (and honestly really being a pain too to stall, even with Blissey) is so helpful to any team, and I think its huge offensive utility definitely warrants it a bump in the rankings.
 

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Think these are the last of the questions; I hope everyone has a better understanding of the placements and enjoys the thread! I am so happy it is active and encourage people to continue contributing to it :)

Is there any way that someone can explain to me how Slowbro is so high with Urshifu-S and Spectrier in the tier, as well as how Melmetal (and Regieleki) are so high with all the Grounds + Heatran and Pheromosa? I expected that stuff to overwhelm Melmetal due to his speed, especially with how difficult it can be to switch into Pheromosa without the right Pokemon.
Feel like you are just naming random Pokemon that beat other random Pokemon without looking at the bigger picture, to put it bluntly. Every Pokemon is going to have others that can beat it naturally. Slowbro is not going to wall every single attacker in the game, but no Pokemon is capable of doing such. Sure, strong Dark and Ghost types like Urshifu and Spectrier can handle it, but it is capable of pivoting into, checking, and getting off Future Sight+Teleport vs a lot of other Pokemon that are also great in the tier right now! As for Melmetal, it does not really even lose to Grounds or Heatran very often, technically being able to 1v1 most of them with the common sets and it's not like any can reliably switch in to it. I'm not sure exactly what point you are trying to make with the Pheromosa comparison either as it being hard to switch in to has little to do with Melmetal, which is an entirely separate Pokemon that Pheromosa does not check and is not used to check Pheromosa itself.

why is kartana, a mon that's already pushing it in ou b/c of its mediocrity in the first place, in rank A? why is it even the same rank as mandibuzz? Mandibuzz already ranked far too high in the first place as it should be B/B+ in my very professional and qualified opinion. Kart should be at the absolute most b- but definitely C+. Lastly, mew needs to be A-/B+. This mon is extremely versatile and has so many sets offensively snd defensive that can jsut run through teams or wall them; there not a single perspective that puts it firmly in the C+ tier. Let me know yalls thought but uhhh ya, kartana needs to get far as fuck away from A as possible. scarf kart is just garbage and lo is just eh. band is ok lol but like still not great. what is wrong with yall
I appreciate your very professional and qualified opinion, Mr. Pwoell. However, Kartana was ranked highly due to the potency of its Swords Dance set. At +2 with a Life Orb, only a small handful of Pokemon are capable of checking it, especially with things like Giga Impact surfacing, to let it trade with would-be counters in order to open the game up for teammates, and Knock Off being increasingly common, allowing it to remove Heavy Duty Boots from a lot of would-be checks to help long-term positioning. Overall, there are only a handful of truly reliable answers to it and seeing as it is both fast and a Steel type, Kartana is able to get in and pose a threat enough in spite of its paper thin special bulk.

As for Mandibuzz, I do not see how it is remotely comparable to Kartana or what parallels you are drawing as it functions in an entirely separate manner. But it is ranked as it is due to it being a very common Defog utility Pokemon and a Ghost resist, which can assist in efforts to check prominent Ghost types like Spectrier and Dragapult. Not going to comment on your nominations as I am just responding to questions for the sake of clarity, but I hope you now are enlightened as to "what is wrong with yall" and our "very professional and qualified opinion"s my friend!

Sorry if this is a dumb question but I genuinely dont understand what niche skarmory has at this point. I know it was originally used in some stall teams but he is a typical defensive mon that gets destroyed by everything that is good vs stall, its outclassed as a defoger by zapdos/moltres/corviknight it is only really good at situational spiking which is terrible this gen anyway.. I only saw it a couple of times on ladder and when I did it was always the worst mon it the game. Its really think it doesnt hold an actual niche in this meta game unless I am missing something
It is able to dissuade SD Ground types, punish Melmetal, check Kartana, and counter/punish Rillaboom. It is absolutely not as good as it was prior to DLC2, but there are still threatening Pokemon it is able to handle and there is a bit less Magnezone now as well. It can function on both stall and balance as a decent defensive measure because of this, but it does not deserve to be ranked particularly high because of the things limiting it and competing with it, which you touch on.
 
I feel like the problem with Volcanion is that it's way too niche. It's only really functional under rain and with specs. Volcanion is also easily replaced with something else on rain and is not a staple on it like Barra + Peli. Yes it hits hard under rain... and? It's way too weather reliant and doesnt do enough damage outside of it imo. It also has a bad defensive typing and quite slow than what I want it to be. It also has the trouble of picking HDB or Lefties. Without HDB, its affected by rocks and without lefties, it longevity is compromised. I think C- is fine for Volcanion. Maybe C. But not B. It's certainly not on the likes of Suicune, Aegislash, Pert levels of impact on the metagame.
That's exactly it's niche. The only thing on rain that breaks anywhere near as consistently and easily as Volcanion is Crawdaunt, whom is both slower and frailer. Crawdaunt has its own other benefits, but that's the point I'm getting it. Volcanion can switch in on passive and defensive mons rather easily and just blow the doors off them. It also blocks Flip Turn and other rain sweepers with a bit of prediction. It's very difficult to sponge a Steam Eruption in rain. The counterplay is limited to Water Absorb. Opposing water types that are bulky enough to take 2 Steam Eruptions (Tapu Fini, Suicune & Slowking) suffer by not being able to do shit back. It's also not as useless outside of rain as other abusers, as it has both 110 BP Water & Fire STAB moves. None of those attacks off 130 SpA is weak.
 
Sorry if this is a dumb question but I genuinely dont understand what niche skarmory has at this point. I know it was originally used in some stall teams but he is a typical defensive mon that gets destroyed by everything that is good vs stall, its outclassed as a defoger by zapdos/moltres/corviknight it is only really good at situational spiking which is terrible this gen anyway.. I only saw it a couple of times on ladder and when I did it was always the worst mon it the game. Its really think it doesnt hold an actual niche in this meta game unless I am missing something
I think its niche is that, like Landorus Therian, it is the ultimate role compression pokemon, combining Buzzwall's ability to endlessly wall physical attackers, Ferrothorn's spikes and the birds' defog
 
Think these are the last of the questions; I hope everyone has a better understanding of the placements and enjoys the thread! I am so happy it is active and encourage people to continue contributing to it :)


Feel like you are just naming random Pokemon that beat other random Pokemon without looking at the bigger picture, to put it bluntly. Every Pokemon is going to have others that can beat it naturally. Slowbro is not going to wall every single attacker in the game, but no Pokemon is capable of doing such. Sure, strong Dark and Ghost types like Urshifu and Spectrier can handle it, but it is capable of pivoting into, checking, and getting off Future Sight+Teleport vs a lot of other Pokemon that are also great in the tier right now! As for Melmetal, it does not really even lose to Grounds or Heatran very often, technically being able to 1v1 most of them with the common sets and it's not like any can reliably switch in to it. I'm not sure exactly what point you are trying to make with the Pheromosa comparison either as it being hard to switch in to has little to do with Melmetal, which is an entirely separate Pokemon that Pheromosa does not check and is not used to check Pheromosa itself.


I appreciate your very professional and qualified opinion, Mr. Pwoell. However, Kartana was ranked highly due to the potency of its Swords Dance set. At +2 with a Life Orb, only a small handful of Pokemon are capable of checking it, especially with things like Giga Impact surfacing, to let it trade with would-be counters in order to open the game up for teammates, and Knock Off being increasingly common, allowing it to remove Heavy Duty Boots from a lot of would-be checks to help long-term positioning. Overall, there are only a handful of truly reliable answers to it and seeing as it is both fast and a Steel type, Kartana is able to get in and pose a threat enough in spite of its paper thin special bulk.

As for Mandibuzz, I do not see how it is remotely comparable to Kartana or what parallels you are drawing as it functions in an entirely separate manner. But it is ranked as it is due to it being a very common Defog utility Pokemon and a Ghost resist, which can assist in efforts to check prominent Ghost types like Spectrier and Dragapult. Not going to comment on your nominations as I am just responding to questions for the sake of clarity, but I hope you now are enlightened as to "what is wrong with yall" and our "very professional and qualified opinion"s my friend!


It is able to dissuade SD Ground types, punish Melmetal, check Kartana, and counter/punish Rillaboom. It is absolutely not as good as it was prior to DLC2, but there are still threatening Pokemon it is able to handle and there is a bit less Magnezone now as well. It can function on both stall and balance as a decent defensive measure because of this, but it does not deserve to be ranked particularly high because of the things limiting it and competing with it, which you touch on.
I get what you're saying my guy. I wasn't particularly talking about "it gets demolished by these two Pokemon so it must be bad", I mainly meant that I was shocked that Slowbro was so high with the sheer prevalence of Urshifu-S and Spectrier. Also, I fully admit that Pheromosa comparison was terribly worded, I apologize for that. Either way, I love your vids and appreciate the fact that you took the time to answer the questions of a not-so experienced player (as you could probably tell by my questions).
 
This is not what I meant by this, so maybe I should restate what I mean. I did not mean threat in the teambuilder is enough for a rise on the VR. But if Spectrier forces the opponent to run a suboptimal choice which the Spectrier user's team can take advantage of, then this would still warrant a higher ranking. If the counterplay to Spectrier easily shut it down in a way that didn't compromise the opponent's response to its teammates, then I'd look to see it dropped. For the record I think it's fine in A+. Mandibuzz is a competent mon and Blissey beats non-Sub sets. But if you started seeing Blissey run Shadow Ball every time I'd reconsider Spectrier for S no matter how hard that set would counter it. Because it'd free up another teammate to take on Blissey with the loss in utility caused by running such a set.
If a pokemon is S rank, it should mean that it has unmatched consistency and power in every game it shows up in. I'm not actually arguing against spectirer to S, I personally think the description I just gave is an accurate description of the Horse's power. I am arguing with your principle, however, that the ability to exploit a pokemons weaknesses is a good reason to push it up the VR.

Lets say hypothetically your blissey/mandibuzz on most teams as a real scenario. I admit that if this was the case it would be telling that specrier is overcentralizing and unhealthy, but there is also the fact that if every team ran such pokemon spectrier would be shut down in every game you brought it and would be a bad addition to teams. If the metagame has reached a point where it is expected that every team runs a hard counter, why use a mon that is likely to run into such a hard wall?

Take regieleki, if all ground types suddenly get sent to ubers the thing is very clearly broken. But the reason you don't bring specs regieleki to a game is because you are so certain a team will have a hard wall that you don't even bother trying. And its not like regieleki doesn't have teambuilding restraints; several dlc 1 teams had no electric immunity and were tournament viable, with eleki all those teams are more or less invalidated.

The difference between the two is that while you can guarantee every good team has an electric immunity, not every team can have a hard spectrier check. This of course is why their viability is different, but the reason I make this point is to illustrate a centralizing pokemon that forces special attention in the teambuilder is NOT a valid reason to go up a subrank. If I see the metagame over compensating to counter spectrier, pokemon who take advantage of those counters go up in viability, not the pokemon being countered.

If every opponent you face has a blissey to wall spectrier to the end of time, it is telling of spectrier's power. Maybe it even has the tools to mess these checks up enough to climb ranks and be worth running on every team despite the fact that is forces every team to run multiple checks, take GSC snorlax as an example of this. But the principle that because a pokemon is centralizing makes is worth using is wrong in my opinion, and this vr serves to show new players what is worth using, not what is the most important.
 
I appreciate your very professional and qualified opinion, Mr. Pwoell. However, Kartana was ranked highly due to the potency of its Swords Dance set. At +2 with a Life Orb, only a small handful of Pokemon are capable of checking it, especially with things like Giga Impact surfacing, to let it trade with would-be counters in order to open the game up for teammates, and Knock Off being increasingly common, allowing it to remove Heavy Duty Boots from a lot of would-be checks to help long-term positioning. Overall, there are only a handful of truly reliable answers to it and seeing as it is both fast and a Steel type, Kartana is able to get in and pose a threat enough in spite of its paper thin special bulk.

As for Mandibuzz, I do not see how it is remotely comparable to Kartana or what parallels you are drawing as it functions in an entirely separate manner. But it is ranked as it is due to it being a very common Defog utility Pokemon and a Ghost resist, which can assist in efforts to check prominent Ghost types like Spectrier and Dragapult. Not going to comment on your nominations as I am just responding to questions for the sake of clarity, but I hope you now are enlightened as to "what is wrong with yall" and our "very professional and qualified opinion"s my friend!

". At +2 with a Life Orb, only a small handful of Pokemon are capable of checking it"

just going off ou pokemon with no item alone which is already a limitation im putting on myself just to show that this is a falsehood. Nearly 1/3 of ou mons straight up kill kartana at +2 with life orb; this is the base because that number obviously skyrockets if you want me to account for items as well as kartana is garbage in one clear state as you pointed out yourself. these mons are: Buzzwole, Cinderace, Corviknight, Dragapult, Dragonite, Latios, Mandibuzz*, Tornadus-Therian, Pheromosa, Regieleki,& Barraskewda.

*youll sometimes die but large majority of the time u kill it *

so the point is this is just not true. revenge killing kart is dumb easy and it's not even remotely a threat unless one is running a large % fairies and slow weak mons on your team, which I have to admit, clearly a good portion of you are doing for some weird reason. but even then, none of this
warrants A whatsoever so I ask again why?

"I do not see how it is remotely comparable to Kartana"
I agree. I brought up mandibuzz for the simple fact that mandibuzz is much better than kart lol
 

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". At +2 with a Life Orb, only a small handful of Pokemon are capable of checking it"

just going off ou pokemon with no item alone which is already a limitation im putting on myself just to show that this is a falsehood. Nearly 1/3 of ou mons straight up kill kartana at +2 with life orb; this is the base because that number obviously skyrockets if you want me to account for items as well as kartana is garbage in one clear state as you pointed out yourself. these mons are: Buzzwole, Cinderace, Corviknight, Dragapult, Dragonite, Latios, Mandibuzz*, Tornadus-Therian, Pheromosa, Regieleki,& Barraskewda.

*youll sometimes die but large majority of the time u kill it *

so the point is this is just not true. revenge killing kart is dumb easy and it's not even remotely a threat unless one is running a large % fairies and slow weak mons on your team, which I have to admit, clearly a good portion of you are doing for some weird reason. but even then, none of this
warrants A whatsoever so I ask again why?

"I do not see how it is remotely comparable to Kartana"
I agree. I brought up mandibuzz for the simple fact that mandibuzz is much better than kart lol

While I do agree with the point of counterplay to Kartana I do disagree that you think Kartana doesnt deserve the ranking it has, with a +2 Life orb-boosted Attack it has no trouble to break through a large portion of the OU metagame, and bringing in a check or counter isnt that easy as it can pikc off a mon reliably. Kartana has the moves it needs to pick off so called counter like Zapdos with a strong Giga Impact. And even when it doesn't run Giga Impact it still can rely on other strong BP STAB attacks in leaf Blade and Smart Strike, alongside coverage in Knock Off, which is really good in this metagame as many Pokemon with access to Knock Off rely on this move to remove the prominent Heavy-Duty Boots and other popular items such as Leftovers or Choice-Items. It also has access to Sacred Sword which is able to pick off Heatran and also physically bulky Ferrothorn. In Rillabooms (and occosionally Tapu Bulus) Grassy Terrain its Leaf Blade reaches absurd power. Kartana is a Pokemon, which in itself doesnt really struggle too much in the current metagame as it can opt its sets to more than only SD + Life Orb-variants. Choice Band and Choice Scarf are also potent sets, with the former dishing out immediate powerful attacks and the latter with outspeeding and revengekilling a plethora of the metagame. I think Kartana deserves its ranking in the Viability Ranks as it is a Pokemon which is potent enough to reliably dent holes into opposing teams or just simply KO a pokemon with its high attack stat. I would keep :kartana: where it is as this pokemon is really good at what it does in the metagame.
 
If spectrier gets banned and np hydreigon is the only hydreigon set, where would hydreigon be ranked?
Plus, if spectrier does get banned, hydreigon may see a decrease in usage since it is used as a bulky deffoger than can also check spectrier, heatran and helps with slowbro and toxapex.

But on another note, I feel that many pokemon have fallen off such as buzzwole, dragapult, and rotom heat and are no longer as good as they were prior in the generation because of the case of being outclassed while not being very strong anymore due to the massive power creep. These pokemon were at one point top 10 or top 5 in the case of dragapult. Since buzzwole dosent appreciate the rise of spectrier and being wisped, hex'ed is very bad for buzzwole, while dragapult dosent have the power to break teams having to rely on specs/130 BP hex to break because its 100 sp attack isnt much. Rotom heat has fallen off due to many dragons and ground types being added such as swampert, hydreigon being more defensive, garchomp, tapu koko outclasses it as an offensive electric with a good typing in fairy. Like these were top 10 mons and its just amazing how powercreep can shove them down
 
Sharing a similar sentiment with Thunder Powell without the frustration in his posts on Kart after some more use of it. A rank is high for it and understandably it's preemptively ranked but its matchup is contingent on facing fat alone cause Scarf and Band are not good minus very situational late game scenarios. Not sold on the whole Giga Impact thing either thats like Spectrier using Hyper Beam on Specs, granted movepool is limited, it feels and plays kind of memey just for it to possibly get some 1v1s and then get killed right after. Thats a lot of work for what Knock Off is still accomplishing with some long term play, and in most cases people are just clicking knock off with it anyways and cant even SD until late game.
 
Blacephalon C > C+/B-
Blacephalon works really well on bulky offense teams. With enough momentum and good hazad control, both provided by the likes of mandibuzz and zapdos, clown can nuke anything. The only viable switch-ins are specially defensive Tyranitar and Blissey. The former can definitely be annoying, but a good double switch can easily give the advantage. The latter however, can be totally destroyed with a trick, giving it a choice specs or scarf. The substitute calm mind set is not as good against fat teams as the previous gen because it lacks the insane power of a Z-move.

Best set:
Blacephalon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Trick
- Flamethrower
- Fire Blast

Of course , It is very prediction reliant, as with all choice breaker.
This is a very good pokemon on Bulky Offense teams fishing for other BOs and Balances, but it will at least severely damage one pokemon with a trick.

It rarely does no work, and it manages to carve out its place in the metagame even with frail defences and not good enough speed tier.
The specs set is stronger than spectrier thanks to coverage.
i think it should be ranked a little higher.
 
I've seen a few people sharing sentiments that clef is A+ material due to its reliance on having to correct spread to check things. I disagree, mainly because Physdef clef is by far the safest switch to an unrevealed mosa set. Poison jab on CB isn't uncommon, but from my experience the set as a whole is. And that is basically the only attack this clef set fears.

Also clef is by far the best wish passer in the tier with or without port on the set. And I prefer it to fini for a urshifu check because the recovery and permanent status immunity makes it a much safer choice. PhysDef celf can even do absurdities like wish passing in front of bulky steels which has been completely game breaking for me. Not perfect of course, but still one of the best for sure.
 
G-Slowking's star is rising. Spreading sludgebomb poisons and burning steel types while completely walling so many different special attackers (most notably some deeply annoying fairy types) with its AV set is terrific. While it has less resists than normal Slowking, it also has less weaknesses and is easier to cover with teammates.
 
Hello! I just have a quick question, why is there such a large difference between the rankings of regular Slowking and Galarian Slowking? While I understand that reg Slowking does answer nidoking, as well as some other mons, Slowking-G is helpful against fini and other fairies. Additionally, while it is true that usage does not always equal viability, Galarian Slowking moved up to OU in the recent shifts, likely due to the high usage of fairies currently, while regular Slowking remained RU. Is there a reason Galarian Slowking is ranked so low at B-, while regular Slowking is ranked A-?
Yo Fusien whatsup, I was gonna ask that question. Maybe it is because slowking uses teleport rather than an av set with galar slowking for momentum? I don't know and am sorry I could not help.
 

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