Resource SS OU DLC2 Viability Ranking Thread [SEE: Page 105, Post 2618]

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WhiteQueen

the queen bee
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I would not use Sp.Def Heatran without Protect. Scouting purposes aside, Heatran is one of those Pokemon without a reliable recovery move that benefits immensely from using Protect; this one move increases Heatran’s longevity significantly due to its many resistances where the Leftovers recovery outweighs the damages taken (e.g., Clefable’s Moonblast barely scratches Heatran). Pivoting and Grassy Surge also keep it healthy throughout the game.
 

Zneon

uh oh
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You just listed Fairy types...
Yeah, that's the point, because Regidrago is incapable of touching any of them for decent damage because of its barren movepool, the only move it has of maybe touching them is Ancient Power but that's an awful move to lock into given the resists to Rock being so common. Fairy types are completely omnipresent in this metagame, they are on almost, if not every single team, so the fact that Regidrago is unable to damage them speaks to how awful it is.
 
Latios: B+ → B

I know this recently dropped, but I think it should drop again. Main reason I think this is because the other breakers in this rank (Kyurem and Dracozolt) are more consistent in breaking down teams. Kyurem is a complete menace to face with the standard Ice Beam/Freeze-Dry/Earth Power set plowing through most of the tier (its STABs alone are already insanely spammable in this meta), while Dracozolt on sand is tough to face due to its coverage. If those two are provided some support, they will claim kills and put in work in most games. Latios at most scores some chip or tricks a choice item. And it doesn't really fare all that well with Magearna being the top mon.

Either that or Kyurem should move up.

Heatran: Stay A+
Don't think this should move up. And I'm only saying this because S rank is currently filled with the most broken mons in the tier. Heatran, while good, isn't any of that and it can be a little inconsistent with Magma Storm's accuracy and the fact that it can get worn down throughout the match fairly easily.
 

Katy

Banned deucer.
:ss/regidrago:
second this nomination to put it UnRanked, i think this Pokemon was ranked for way too long and isn't great at all, countless of fairy-types running around and it has to rely on suboptimal coverage options like ancient power and to a lesser degree fire fang to get damage on Pokemon. I just feel like fairy-types are so omnipresent in the current metagame that this Pokemon doesn't do anything for itself or for its teammates and it depends on a HEAVY support to get it going that this isn't worth a consideration on a team at all. I would say unrank it.

:ss/heatran:
Heatran is a great poke don't get me wrong, it is one of the most consistent in the current metagame and has a lot of sets, which are a consideration, be it the spdef-set, the offensive-set, or the rare eruption-set on sun teams, but in all hoesty with so many ground-types and especially garchomp running around it has a tough time on the field as italways gets threatened by it. furthermore swampert, urshifu-s, tapu fini, and moltres can still be great checks to it. moreover hydreigon rises in usage due to another pokemon spectrier and it finds itself as not only a check to the horse but also as a check to heatran. so i would say keep Heatran where it is.

:ss/moltres:
Moltres i find weird being in A- as I think its prime time is over and doesnt fit the description of an A- ranker anymore. Moltres still is a great check to Heatran, Nidoking, and Rillaboom, but with plenty of Pokemon rising in usage, which can just do the job just as good in checking them I feel Moltres doesnt fit the ranking anymore. Melmetal also decreased in usage and while Melmetal decreased in usage it oftentimes uses Toxic or Rock Slide now to hurt Moltres severly. Also Pokemon with coverage for it rise in usage such as Garchomp it has a tough time on the field. I would suggest it to drop to B+.

:ss/porygon2:
I think Porygon2s niche of being a Trick Room-setter which doesnt get boned by Spectrier is great to warrant it in the rankings, as most other Trick Room-setters are getting threatened from the get go by the horse, also it has not only the coverage to threaten opposing Pokemon such as Ice Beam, but also teleport to grant another setup sweeper a safe setup opportunity. I feel Poryduck2 should stay in the rankings.

:ss/blaziken:
agree with Gomi on that nomination, it is still bad even with mosa gone and has plenty of fighting-type competition and its just too frail to get things going without screens and the recoil it takes because it cannot rely on boost as it misses the damage output it wants to is just too much. i feel this Pokemon should drop 1 SubRank!
 
Latios: B+ → B

I know this recently dropped, but I think it should drop again. Main reason I think this is because the other breakers in this rank (Kyurem and Dracozolt) are more consistent in breaking down teams. Kyurem is a complete menace to face with the standard Ice Beam/Freeze-Dry/Earth Power set plowing through most of the tier (its STABs alone are already insanely spammable in this meta), while Dracozolt on sand is tough to face due to its coverage. If those two are provided some support, they will claim kills and put in work in most games. Latios at most scores some chip or tricks a choice item. And it doesn't really fare all that well with Magearna being the top mon.

Either that or Kyurem should move up.
A big reason for using Latios that many people do not know about is its defensive utility. As a ground immune fire resist, it serves as a great switch-in to Heatran for offensive teams and bulky offensive teams, a spot which was in earlier times reserved for Zygarde. It can also help in the collective effort versus the terror Nidoking and the great Glowking, while also serving as a great stop to the ever-dropping Blaziken. It's not unbreakable, and maybe not as prominent as it used to be, but the defensive prowess of Latios due solely to its typing and ability warrant a spot on many teams.
 
A big reason for using Latios that many people do not know about is its defensive utility. As a ground immune fire resist, it serves as a great switch-in to Heatran for offensive teams and bulky offensive teams, a spot which was in earlier times reserved for Zygarde. It can also help in the collective effort versus the terror Nidoking and the great Glowking, while also serving as a great stop to the ever-dropping Blaziken. It's not unbreakable, and maybe not as prominent as it used to be, but the defensive prowess of Latios due solely to its typing and ability warrant a spot on many teams.
Although i do agree that latios should not drop. Its bcoz of its specs set only. The set u mentioned is done by hydreigon these days which has the same matchup w those mons as latios does the other than blaziken which isn't as popular as spectrier these days as well as shifu(2 mons hydreigon covers better)
 
Although i do agree that latios should not drop. Its bcoz of its specs set only. The set u mentioned is done by hydreigon these days which has the same matchup w those mons as latios does the other than blaziken which isn't as popular as spectrier these days as well as shifu(2 mons hydreigon covers better)
I wasn't insinuating that Latios should be used purely defensively, more that even as an offensive Specs user it still has defensive utility.
 

Red Raven

I COULD BE BANNED!
I still find it weird that Moltres drops in usage and viability. I find that it is too risky to use as a main physical defense considering how dominant Garchomp is with its usual edgequake and Landorus having stone edge itself or knock off, both of which Moltres absolutely despise. However, I find that its best use is as a backup physical wall to something like Buzzwole, Slowbro or Ferrothorn, all of which handle these specific pokemon on their own. This gives Moltres a more specific target, Cinderace. Race's only method of even touching Moltres is gunk shot, which it might not always carry and u turn is of course hazardous to it. This makes it a perfect backup to Buzzwole as it no longer has to fight Race itself. More importantly, it's probably the one bird that should make dark Urshifu think twice about using any move because if it gets burned, it's gonna be next to worthless for the rest of the battle. I was told that it usually has to hit a specific speed benchmark to outrun Excadrill or Magearna but Excadrill is not that good of a matchup. Unless Excadrill is confirmed not to have rock slide, Moltres shouldn't stay in on it. In fact, I don't even think that unboosted rock slide one shots Moltres from full hp but why risk it. Against Magearna, I still don't understand the need to outrun it since it is safer to just roost off anything Mag throws at Moltres and somewhat ruining the volt switch momentum by staying in. Modest Mag's specs fleur cannon takes half of Moltres' life so roost is the safer option and just let Mag drop its special attack. Moltres also has u turn and can bait in its counters and it can even forgo scorch sands since you are gonna have either Garchomp or Landorus on your team who absolutely eat Heatran for breakfast

Maybe that's just me using Moltres in a way I'm comfortable with that I find it to be that useful for me despite its flaws. I mean except for Corvinight, all the birds don't wanna lose their boots and Moltres serving as back up means that it doesn't have to face knock off that much. I think it should stay in on the a ranks mainly because of how its flame body threatens the most bullshit pokemon atm, but I'm not really gonna argue that much about it and I don't really care if Moltres winds up in z- rank. It fits how I play so Imma use it. Well, that's my thoughts on Moltres and its viability anyway

Oh, and I also think Regidrago shouldn't even be on the viability list. Regieleki having only electric type and utility moves is one thing, but barely having coverage to touch fairy types is another and the last thing you want is to give Magearna a free switch
 

AM

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Personally think Moltres is not good its too status prone, the dominant grounds carry rock coverage or toxic on their more defensive variants, cant switch into any potential knock off recipient safely because now you’ve become a D rank defogger with no boots. Cant even win against Screen Weakness Policy Mag teams without conditions in Moltres favor and its best trait in checking Rillaboom, Kartana, and Heatran brings the opportunity cost of getting hit with the above points. I try my best not to use it because it requires a lot of other things you need to cover for it to be a consistent defogger.
 
A big reason for using Latios that many people do not know about is its defensive utility. As a ground immune fire resist, it serves as a great switch-in to Heatran for offensive teams and bulky offensive teams, a spot which was in earlier times reserved for Zygarde. It can also help in the collective effort versus the terror Nidoking and the great Glowking, while also serving as a great stop to the ever-dropping Blaziken. It's not unbreakable, and maybe not as prominent as it used to be, but the defensive prowess of Latios due solely to its typing and ability warrant a spot on many teams.
If you want to use a defensive latios, why not use Latias? It has better defensive stats than latios and imo can pull off a sweeping set with roost better than latios if you are going for a more defensive latios.
 
If you want to use a defensive latios, why not use Latias? It has better defensive stats than latios and imo can pull off a sweeping set with roost better than latios if you are going for a more defensive latios.
He means it's defensive utility as an offensive Pokemon, being immune to ground, resisting Fire, Water, Grass, Electric, Fighting, and Psychic as well as 80/110 special bulk giving it opportunities to switch in against these types of moves and proceeding to smack something.
 

Red Raven

I COULD BE BANNED!
Personally think Moltres is not good its too status prone, the dominant grounds carry rock coverage or toxic on their more defensive variants, cant switch into any potential knock off recipient safely because now you’ve become a D rank defogger with no boots. Cant even win against Screen Weakness Policy Mag teams without conditions in Moltres favor and its best trait in checking Rillaboom, Kartana, and Heatran brings the opportunity cost of getting hit with the above points. I try my best not to use it because it requires a lot of other things you need to cover for it to be a consistent defogger.
That is exactly my point. Using Moltres or any bird not named Corvinight to deal with these threats is not a good idea due to knock off plus, all the birds instantly lose to screens Magearna anyway because Mag is bullshit, except maybe for taunt Tornadus Therian. In fact, all the birds except Corvinight all lose to Garchomp and Landorus in one way or another and they too are status prone. The main point that I'm trying to make is using Moltres to back something up like Buzzwole is what makes it a good choice. Buzzwole almost straight up counters the entire physical attacking pokemon in the tier and even Cinderace will not have an easy time taking it down but Moltres taking care of Cinderace for it only makes it that much more difficult to take down. I don't know about anyone else but I always run 248 hp and about 236 or max def evs on Moltres and it straight up counters Cinderace as unlike Zapdos, it can safely switch in on pyro ball and both of them also share the same trait of losing to the ground types. As I also mentioned, Moltres doesn't have as bad a moveslot issue as Zapdos since it can afford to simply run u turn and flamethrower, bait in the ground types and u turn as they switch in
 
That is exactly my point. Using Moltres or any bird not named Corvinight to deal with these threats is not a good idea due to knock off plus, all the birds instantly lose to screens Magearna anyway because Mag is bullshit, except maybe for taunt Tornadus Therian. In fact, all the birds except Corvinight all lose to Garchomp and Landorus in one way or another and they too are status prone. The main point that I'm trying to make is using Moltres to back something up like Buzzwole is what makes it a good choice. Buzzwole almost straight up counters the entire physical attacking pokemon in the tier and even Cinderace will not have an easy time taking it down but Moltres taking care of Cinderace for it only makes it that much more difficult to take down. I don't know about anyone else but I always run 248 hp and about 236 or max def evs on Moltres and it straight up counters Cinderace as unlike Zapdos, it can safely switch in on pyro ball and both of them also share the same trait of losing to the ground types. As I also mentioned, Moltres doesn't have as bad a moveslot issue as Zapdos since it can afford to simply run u turn and flamethrower, bait in the ground types and u turn as they switch in
Moltres also has mystical fire and scorching sands that help it take on both special and physical attackers, which I find fairly valuable when I'm building with it, and it makes it a fire type not completely walled by heatran. I feel like moltres is fine where it is
 

viet noa

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Moltres also has mystical fire and scorching sands that help it take on both special and physical attackers, which I find fairly valuable when I'm building with it, and it makes it a fire type not completely walled by heatran. I feel like moltres is fine where it is
i know i’m probably not qualified to have an opinion on competitive pokémon, but i’m going to say that moltres should be lower on the list. moltres does have a nice mix of offensive and defensive utility, that being said, it doesn’t have the versatility in comparison to other defog users.

scorching sands, mystical fire, defog, and roost all four of the most important moves on it. however, what makes this an issue is that it can be difficult to pivot around with moltres. pokemon it has trouble against ~ knock off users, special walls, pretty much any electric or rock/ground type, are able to abuse that moltres set since it has no u-turn. this is especially considering that most pokémon don’t want to be switching into a garchomp setup sweeping, a tapu koko clicking the funny switch move, or a knock off user doing its thing.

of course, you can always use u-turn, but then you have to sacrifice one of its original four moves. all of which are very important on moltres.

the best defoggers in this game ~ corv, mandibuzz, zapdos, and even hydreigon, all have the versatility to have multiple sets that keep opponents guessing (even outside of defog). moltres plays a lot more of a linear role, so while he might be easy to utilize and get decent work out of, hes also easy to expose.

edit: sorry that i talk so much
 
i know i’m probably not qualified to have an opinion on competitive pokémon, but i’m going to say that moltres should be lower on the list. moltres does have a nice mix of offensive and defensive utility, that being said, it doesn’t have the versatility in comparison to other defog users.

scorching sands, mystical fire, defog, and roost all four of the most important moves on it. however, what makes this an issue is that it can be difficult to pivot around with moltres. pokemon it has trouble against ~ knock off users, special walls, pretty much any electric or rock/ground type, are able to abuse that moltres set since it has no u-turn. this is especially considering that most pokémon don’t want to be switching into a garchomp setup sweeping, a tapu koko clicking the funny switch move, or a knock off user doing its thing.

of course, you can always use u-turn, but then you have to sacrifice one of its original four moves. all of which are very important on moltres.

the best defoggers in this game ~ corv, mandibuzz, zapdos, and even hydreigon, all have the versatility to have multiple sets that keep opponents guessing (even outside of defog). moltres plays a lot more of a linear role, so while he might be easy to utilize and get decent work out of, hes also easy to expose.

edit: sorry that i talk so much
Yea. A lot of the mons Moltres is tasked with beating have and commonly run Knock Off, Toxic, and/or rock coverage, so whenever you switch it in you're hoping you don't match up with a bad set that beats Moltres. Of course, you could always stack it with Buzzwole or something, but then usually it's more worth it to have another defogger like Hydreigon, or heck even Lando-T I guess. I just personally find Zapdos more consistent at beating a lot of the mons people put Moltres on their team for such as Rillaboom or Kartana (not SD LO Giga Impact because nothing beats that). Static is still absolutely crippling for a lot of contact offensive mons and the 2x stealth rock weakness as opposed to 4x weakness is relieving to play with. Many teams also prefer to play passive against Zapdos too, since offensive Zapdos is more common than Offensive Moltres and defensive Zapdos often run a multitude of moves in the coverage slot, which means Zapdos can often get more defogs instead of being immediately pressured out.

edit: sorry that i talk so much
bruh have you seen some of the other posts in this thread? Some of the posts literally take up half a page. I'm not a mod or anything, but if you have a lot to say, then say what you have to say.
 
Latios is fine on b plus, why it has good offensive and defensive utility Specs is hard to wall and it can even beat calm mind mag 1v1, heatran also doeant apreciate aura sphere/surf. Spdef mandibuzz is an issue but you can play around that and at least Force the mandibuzz to roost. Blissey is an issue if not running psychock (I dont like trick on specs because you hit as much as posible) slowking galar also is a reason why Latios struggles a bit and cinderace u turn just kills it.
Latios also can run scarf to Ko things like dragapult and have speed control in general.
Calm mind sets arent as popular but powerful if not dealt properly.
Life Orb sets are good mainly with eq to smah heatran and slow galar after a draco.

I wont talk about every single latios check like spectrier urshifu, dragapult, Lele, Koko because is too much. But piciking latios in general is fine. It was on my first team of dlc2. And I in general find latios useful, specs is my favorite but I know that people have different opinion about this. Please share some sets I havent menti
oned
 
Latios is fine on b plus, why it has good offensive and defensive utility Specs is hard to wall and it can even beat calm mind mag 1v1, heatran also doeant apreciate aura sphere/surf. Spdef mandibuzz is an issue but you can play around that and at least Force the mandibuzz to roost. Blissey is an issue if not running psychock (I dont like trick on specs because you hit as much as posible) slowking galar also is a reason why Latios struggles a bit and cinderace u turn just kills it.
Latios also can run scarf to Ko things like dragapult and have speed control in general.
Calm mind sets arent as popular but powerful if not dealt properly.
Life Orb sets are good mainly with eq to smah heatran and slow galar after a draco.

I wont talk about every single latios check like spectrier urshifu, dragapult, Lele, Koko because is too much. But piciking latios in general is fine. It was on my first team of dlc2. And I in general find latios useful, specs is my favorite but I know that people have different opinion about this. Please share some sets I havent menti
oned
Life orb EQ also 2hkos max hp glowking, which makes it a solid coverage option for its two most common checks. I think latios is under explored right now and definitely has potential to rise
 

Red Raven

I COULD BE BANNED!
As I already mentioned, Moltres isn't alone in its position. The things it is supposed to beat like Kartana or Rillaboom can cripple it for the rest of the battle. That's why I said that using Moltres as a back up to Buzzwole is the selling point. It can also afford to drop sands as scorch sands isn't gonna kill Heatran from full hp anyway and it can just bait Heatran and the ground types in and u turn out. Zapdos can also do this things but paralysis is fairly inconsistent as it is rng dependent and it also cannot reliably switch in to Cinderace, which the ev spread I mentioned on Moltres allows it to straight up counter Cinderace. Since paralysis immobilize is inconsistent thanks to rng, this makes Moltres a safer check to dark Urshifu as burn will cut your physical attacks in half. This is actually the biggest reason why I think Moltres still deserves its a rank as anything that gives dark Urshifu a miserable time is always appreciated although if it does gets banned in a couple days they I can definitely see Moltres dropping down
 
1610062112230.png
C+ -> B-.

The pivot set from last DLC with boots, knock off and volt switch is still really good. While Dragapult is no longer as relevant, Zeraora has new targets like Spectier, Fini, Tornadus-T, and Cinderace. Aside from Regieleki, this thing still outspeeds the whole unboosted tier! Most notably, revenge killing Spectier is a godsend for so many teams.

Offensive teams are often hard pressed to switch into Zeraora. It can knock off its counters, like Landorus-T, while not being worn down itself thanks to boots. Getting chip on the opposing team is made even easier because Zeraora naturally threatens many defoggers, like flying types and hydreigon. The exception is Landorus-T, which again, is susceptible to knock off.

Even against bulky teams, Zeraora harasses them with knock off and volt switch while not allowing defog.

Once the opposing team is weakened, they are often completely unable to beat this thing. It hits a lot of Pokemon super effectively, threatening OHKOs in the late game, and has few type weaknesses, making it hard to beat with the "survive one hit and KO back" strategy.

The grass types that were expected to ruin Zeraora this DLC -- Bulu, Amoonguss, and Tangrowth -- are not very common or good except Tangrowth which is still not a staple by any means. Kartana, which is the highest ranked new grass type, is simply a victim.

tl;dr people wrote Zeraora off after the latest DLC, and while it's worse than before, it's still very good with an amazing speed tier, good coverage, and utility moves.

Side note: I occasionally still see offensive Regieleki -- use Zeraora instead!
 
View attachment 306074 C+ -> B-.

The pivot set from last DLC with boots, knock off and volt switch is still really good. While Dragapult is no longer as relevant, Zeraora has new targets like Spectier, Fini, Tornadus-T, and Cinderace. Aside from Regieleki, this thing still outspeeds the whole unboosted tier! Most notably, revenge killing Spectier is a godsend for so many teams.

Offensive teams are often hard pressed to switch into Zeraora. It can knock off its counters, like Landorus-T, while not being worn down itself thanks to boots. Getting chip on the opposing team is made even easier because Zeraora naturally threatens many defoggers, like flying types and hydreigon. The exception is Landorus-T, which again, is susceptible to knock off.

Even against bulky teams, Zeraora harasses them with knock off and volt switch while not allowing defog.

Once the opposing team is weakened, they are often completely unable to beat this thing. It hits a lot of Pokemon super effectively, threatening OHKOs in the late game, and has few type weaknesses, making it hard to beat with the "survive one hit and KO back" strategy.

The grass types that were expected to ruin Zeraora this DLC -- Bulu, Amoonguss, and Tangrowth -- are not very common or good except Tangrowth which is still not a staple by any means. Kartana, which is the highest ranked new grass type, is simply a victim.

tl;dr people wrote Zeraora off after the latest DLC, and while it's worse than before, it's still very good with an amazing speed tier, good coverage, and utility moves.

Side note: I occasionally still see offensive Regieleki -- use Zeraora instead!
I also really like zeraora as a pivot that isn't afraid of zapdos, which is one of the best defensive mons in the meta right now. It's very solid on offense and on balance, and can even work on electric spam with koko powering up its already strong plasma fists
 

ausma

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Hello! I figured I'd give my 2 cents on the mons being discussed and then make a nomination of my own!


Regidrago: C- to Unranked

As far as I'm concerned, this thing absolutely should be unranked; I fully agree. I won't beat it down any more than it already has been, but I genuinely see no niche that it has in the metagame versus any other Dragon-type, especially because it is so readily stone walled by literally any Fairy-type (which is a borderline necessity to have in this metagame). Even when these counters have been removed or mitigated, Regidrago's breaking power leaves much to be desired, also folding to a majority of Special walls and the wide array of Steel-types to bat. When things like Garchomp, Hydreigon, and Dragapult exist in the metagame and are able to provide actual utility to teams in need of progress or consistent wallbreaking, Regidrago as a Dragon-type looks and is beyond underwhelming. Don't use Regidrago unless you're trying to be funny, which it isn't even that good at being anyway.


Heatran: A+ to S

I disagree with this. I feel the Pokemon that constitute being an S tier are mostly defined through polarity, consistency, and a general lack of competition. While Heatran is a very consistent Pokemon very deserving of its rank, I can't see it getting any higher than this, simply because using Heatran has an opportunity cost against using something like Ferrothorn as a Spikes setter, since it compounds common Steel-type weaknesses and limits potential team slots to cover other bases. In other words, it competes with other Steel-types pretty constantly for a team slot, which I think does need to be considered. Additionally, I feel it also lacks that S tier "you-can't-go-wrong-with-this" kick that you get with Urshifu and Magearna, which only further grounds and highlights its proneness to be competed with for that Steel-type/Stealth Rocker slot. Although it is an extremely good Pokemon with a great niche in the metagame, I can't really see it in S tier.


Moltres: A- to B+ or B

Definitely agree with this. Although it certainly has some pretty one-of-a-kind defensive application on teams in need of a good Fighting- and Steel-type resistance while also having STAB Flamethrower and Scorching Sands, it simply just does not perform as well as it used to for three reasons: metagame adaptation, competition, and Pheromosa. For starters, Knock Off spam has become incredibly prevalent in the tier, and given how reliant Moltres is on Heavy-Duty Boots, this is a severe problem for its role as a Defog user, and is worsened by the fact that it only allows Moltres to come in on Ferrothorn once only to get its HDB knocked off and lose its ability to not only consistently remove hazards, but also lose its otherwise awesome defensive application on teams. Things it should check in theory can also 1v1 it even so, with Melmetal adapting with the use of Rock Slide and Cinderace winning 1v1 with Gunk Shot poison. Secondly, it has extremely stark competition with Hydreigon, Mandibuzz, Tornadus-T, and Zapdos as a Defog user, as all more consistently deal with what they're meant to deal with (with Hydreigon beating Heatran and Zapdos beating Ferrothorn with Heat Wave as well), all while not being crippled by Knock Off. Lastly, being in theory the best Pheromosa answer means nothing when Pheromosa isn't even in the tier. I feel its proneness to metagame adaptation and competition, though, are its biggest problems, and I think its ranking should reflect that.


Porygon2: C- to Unranked

100% disagree. Porygon2 has a niche in Teleport + Trick Room similar to Slowbro, but also compresses a Spectrier answer for Trick Room teams, which I think is absolutely vital given how easily Spectrier bodies the archetype otherwise. It also pairs really well with the Slowtwins defensively. I will not disagree that Porygon2 is definitely a niche pick (in part to the fact that Trick Room is a gimmick), but I think it is a pretty strong, defined setter in the TR archetype in current stage OU and I cannot see this thing dropping for that reason.


Latios: B+ to B

Absolute disagree; if anything, I feel it deserves to rise again, but I'll save my thoughts on that for later. Latios may experience pretty troubling 4MSS, wanting to cover several bases at once, but its Specs/LO sets sting like all hell and it has the coverage to take advantage of its power. From my experience, Psychic-type STAB, Mystical Fire, and Aura Sphere are really good for covering as many bases as possible on their own, and it even has Draco Meteor for a good nuking option. Even outside of this, Latios can viably run options like Surf and Ice Beam to mix and match its matchups. What's not mentioned really either is that it does have options and pretty helpful resistances, such as Trick on Choiced variants, Calm Mind, recovery, and awesome resistances in Fighting, Grass, and Fire with an immunity to Ground. I feel Latios is in a bit of a tricky position because of 4MSS, but I think it has a lot of potential to become a strong option in the metagame and lowering it to B where mediocrity begins to become more prevalent does not click with me.


Blaziken: B+ to B

I sadly agree. Blaziken went from an Ubers worthy menace to a really inconsistent, kamikaze hot wing. As a Speed Boost user it's in a really awkward speed tier where it is forced between both Adamant and Jolly, and consequently it is forced to toss up Swords Dance and Protect for either explosive strength or a consistent speed boost. If it uses both, it loses a vital coverage option and autoloses the Toxapex, Latios, Dragapult, Tapu Fini, and Slowbro matchups. If it uses Earthquake/Knock Off/Thunder Punch, the Blaziken user is forced between Swords Dance/Protect, and still has to sacrifice consistency in some matchups anyway. I've found some success on dual screens, but even then it dies pretty quickly due to Life Orb and Flare Blitz recoil. Blaziken is just in a really sad state right now, and I think it's going to be really reliant on metagame trends or a major tech breakthrough if it wants to see success in the tier again.


Zeraora: C+ to B-

I actually do agree with this, but I think there is one detail that was missed in the original submission and that's how good it is at spreading Toxic and Knock Off removals. Its speed tier and operation as a pivot is definitely a point in its favor, but the fact that it can threaten its best switch-ins like Hippowdon, Landorus-T, and Garchomp with dangerous item removals and crippling status does actually help teams quite a bit, and STAB Plasma Fists/Volt Switch is a cool way to pressure or play around a majority of that may be ok with switching into a Knock Off or a Toxic such as Corviknight and Tapu Fini or Amoonguss/Tangrowth/Heatran for Volt Switch. I still think it's really niche because it can be pretty underwhelming and even debilitating otherwise in its new matchups, but it does have some pretty cool points in its favor worth mentioning.

--

And now, here's my own nomination (and it's not niche I swear-):


Melmetal: A+ to A

Although Melmetal is incredibly strong with a Choice Band set and a pretty cool offensive AV user, as a Steel-type it faces a lot of competition from other options like Magearna, Excadrill, Ferrothorn, and Heatran that are either polarizing (in Magearna's case) or compress utility for teams. As far as what it brings to the table, Melmetal being as slow as it is for an offensive Pokemon alongside the prevalence of contact recoil moves makes it very prone to being chipped down throughout the course of the game, and even with this it has a lot of natural defensive answers in the tier, such as Zapdos, Landorus-Therian, Slowbro, Hippowdon, Corviknight, Moltres, and Toxapex that either press it for coverage or give it a difficult time in actually finding the ability to break holes into the opposition. Even adaptations such as coverage options or Protective Pads, I feel, are meaningless, as it means Melmetal is forced to give up the power of a Choice Band or the special bulk given through an AV simply to not be pressured by the aforementioned variables. Fundamentally, I don't think it really works as well in this metagame as it should, since it has so many natural checks and is inevitably going to be chipped down severely and lose value as it loses HP, and it faces a wealth of competition with other Steel-type Pokemon that perform in their roles more consistently. There's a reason it's dropped in use lately, I feel, and I think its ranking should reflect that.
 
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Blaziken: B+ to B

it's going to be really reliant on metagame trends or a major tech breakthrough if it wants to see success in the tier again.
Imma disagree with that. Here is a hot potato for you:

REVERSAL
Blaziken @ Protective Pads
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Reversal
- Knock Off
- Endure
- Swords Dance

This does not care about coverage, because +2 reversal KOs 75% of the metagame and you can get to +4 on slowbro. It's so easy to support this thing because it's stops are so easy to read on the opposing team. I've even gotten stinking mixed, work up sets with vacuum wave to work at like 1800.

Speed boost is a really broken ability, and I think people ignoring the chicken because of just how OP the rabbit is.
 
Imma disagree with that. Here is a hot potato for you:

REVERSAL
Blaziken @ Protective Pads
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Reversal
- Knock Off
- Endure
- Swords Dance

This does not care about coverage, because +2 reversal KOs 75% of the metagame and you can get to +4 on slowbro. It's so easy to support this thing because it's stops are so easy to read on the opposing team. I've even gotten stinking mixed, work up sets with vacuum wave to work at like 1800.

Speed boost is a really broken ability, and I think people ignoring the chicken because of just how OP the rabbit is.
I have tried that set, and is not that good. On paper looks good but is hard to pull off. As you mentioned, slowbro deals with this set. Phys def lando to, and toxic ruins this set and I am not mentioning pex. Priority destriys this. Is a flawd set, it works sometimes but no as consistent as SD three attacks

I have tried that set, and is not that good. On paper looks good but is hard to pull off. As you mentioned, slowbro deals with this set. Phys def lando to, and toxic ruins this set and I am not mentioning pex. Priority destriys this. Is a flawd set, it works sometimes but no as consistent as SD three attacks
Sorry for mentioning slowbro, I meant Clef because this set runs knock off. But beating bro is not the only pokemon u want to beat

Ausma edit: jointed your two posts. please do not double post in the future!
 
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