Resource SS OU DLC2 Viability Ranking Thread [Read post #723]

I agree that Hydreigon should go down but B+ is a bit too far down. It still does a great job at punching holes in fat teams, and is one of the tier's best Heatran answers considering its ability to switch in, threaten with earth power, and roost off damage. 98 speed still gets the jump on things like Tapu Lele and Kyurem. Tapu Lele can get taken out by Flash Cannon or Dark Pulse with a bit of chip, and Hydra's psychic immunity allows it to switch in on choiced sets and force it out. The main thing holding it back is the presence of faster mons like Dragapult, Tapu Koko, Weavile, Garchomp, and others that make it hard for Hydreigon to find an opportunity to switch in and get a KO.
:Hydreigon: A --> A-
 
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:regieleki: C -> UR

This pokemon is absolute garbage, its offensive sets are blanked by zeraora, every ground in the tier such as landorus-t, garchomp, hippowdown, excadrill, nidkoing, swampert, and other pokemon such as av tangrowth, blissey, sp def ferrothorn, and av slowking, it just is not touching any of these pokemon and every team should have 1-2 of these pokemon. The screens set is out done by tapu koko who has taunt and u-turn and actual utility with electric terrain preventing spore and sleep powder, and gives hawlucha unburden. Regieleki only has rapid spin in which you should have excadrill or landorus, as your lead slot most of the time as it is one of the best suicide leads. Without taunt it has to explode a lot of the time to prevent defog from something like scarf lando, zapdos, or from rotom-wash which only usually lets it set up one time per game while koko can set it up multiple times since it can pivot out with a free u-turn.
 
:corviknight:
Corviknight for S tier. This shit is super useful, probably the best defogger in the tier, while being one of the best counter to grasses AND to lele. In addition, it counters lando, drill, some rare variants of chomp, can take hits from subroost kyurem and pivot out, and generally checka lot of shit. In addition, bulk up sets are super dangerous if you're not ready for them, and can destroy your team.

:dragapult:
Dragapult for S tier. Dragapult is one of the best, if not the best, offensive mon in the metagame. Its best and most common set, the specs set, is the best cleaner AND one of the best breaker in the metagame. It's a strong, easy to slap on offensive presence. It is the second fastest mon in the metagame behind zeraora (I'm not counting regieleki because it's kinda trash), and much of zeraora's viability comes from outspeeding Dragapult. On top of that, it can take a rillaboom grassy glide and kill it with draco meteor (or shadow ballif the rilla is weaken). Dragapult is fast, but it's also pretty strong. Yeah, 100 speatk isn't spectacular, but slap specs on it, and it begins to really stings. Put on top of that a 130 bp stab and a near unresisted 80 bp stab (which btw menaces one of the most common special walls, slowking), and this things can clean up teams without even thinking about it. OH yeah and it has not one but TWO moveslots to spare. You canselectyour slots as you please, u-turn for mometum, hex if you're running a status spam, will-o-wisp/thunder wave to cripple the opposition, flamethrower/hpump/tbolt for coverage, etc. To put the cherry on the cake, infiltrator means it ignore screens and sub (so forget about subbing up with kyurem to menace it). And I'm only talking about the specs set, and not the scarf set, the dd set, the hex boots set, the sub disable dd set (yeah you heard that right, and it's one of the most annoying ones to face), or even the possibility of a cb set. This shit is a metagame pillar with its most common set, while being able to run a few other sets that are all menacing. So yeah, S-tier.

(Also it's my first post on smogon, yay)
 
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Since I have some extra time; I’ll finish what I started. :blobwizard:

S-tier:
:dragapult:
A+ —> S-/S (100% agree)

Dragapult has always been one of the best, if not the best special attacker since day one. It’s also a meta-defining threat that also restricts teambuilding. All of its sets, namely Choice Specs, Choice Scarf, Life Orb, Sub DD, Sub DD Disable, Mixed Weakness Policy, Heavy Duty Boots, and Status Hex are all viable and have their own niche and use.

:heatran: A+ —> S- (agree)
Heatran definitely isn’t as good as Dragapult, but it definitely deserves to be up there in S tier. Heatran is THE CEO OF STALL BREAKING. It traps and KOes passive mons such as Toxapex and Blissey with Magma Storm and Earth Power/Toxic. Aside from being a consistent stallbreaker, it is also a great check to Volcarona, resisting anything Volcarona carries, whether Fiery Dance, Bug Buzz, Psychic, Hurricane, etc.

:garchomp: A+ —> S- (agree)
This thing sets up SD, uses Scale Shot, and hopes that there is no metal bird in sight. Garchomp has destructive breaking power; almost nothing can stop it after an SD. Nothing much to say after that. :p

A-tier
:volcarona: —> A+ (100% agree)

Volcarona becomes an unstoppable force after a few Quiver Dances; only Heatran and Blissey are actually able to stop it before it gets out of hand. Both offensive and defensive variants are both really good and have their own use.

:weavile: —> to A (agree)
Weavile’s Knock Off + Icicle Crash STAB combo hurts. A lot. Weavile’s best set, SD dual STAB Ice Shard does very well in the current meta (good thing zama-c didn’t drop).

:urshifu-rapid-strike: — A (agree)
This thing fits very well on rain, but it’s also a menace outside of rain. It abuses FuturePort and handles Kyurem very well.

B-tier:
:victini: —> B+ (100% agree)

Victini, a new rising star, is a great pivot and offensive threat due to having a great movepool and offensive stats. It has multiple great sets, such as HDB Pivot, Scarf Final Gambit, Scarf + Trick Pivot, and Mixed LO attacker.

:mandibuzz: to B+ (agree)
Mandibuzz is getting outclassed by Corviknight as a Defogger, as Corv is much more reliable and can check physcial attackers like Garchomp. Since Spectrier got banned, it has been declining in usage, and for good reason. Now it’s only really able to check Pult, who can either U-turn out or click Draco Meteor, which can heavily damage Mandi.

:swampert: to B- (agree)
Swampert has a good typing and splashable moveset, but it’s starting to lose its purpose. It’s outclassed by tanks such as Hippo, Corviknight, and even Scizor, who can actually click recovery moves.

:thundurus-therian:, :latias:, :gengar:C+ —> B-
In my opinion, these mons absolutely do not deserve being in C+. They are phenomenal and powerful special attackers when used well.
• Thundurus-T is great in rain; it provides great utility in rain teams due to having Volt Absorb and its Thunder + Weather Ball + Focus Blast combination that hit everything in the tier with either neutral or super-effective damage. Thundurus-T can easily force out Slowking with the use of Thunder (although it is fun to catch the ground type on the switch-in with weather ball in the rain).
• Latias’ very good bulk and CM + Agility/Roost + Stored Power + Aura Sphere combo allow it to be a devastating sweeper who can deal massive damage, especially under dual screens.
• Gengar has been and still is a great mon to use. Gengar’s great speed tier and access to Nasty Plot and great coverage moves make it a force to be reckoned with. Its preferred dual STAB combination, Shadow Ball and Sludge Wave is hard to wall. Like Thundurus-T, Gengar also forces Slowking out with Shadow Ball (just make sure you don’t get hit by Future Sight).
C-tier
:keldeo:C —> C+
• Keldeo is definitely a underrated, but with its Sub CM set, it can turn the tide (get it?) of the battle around. It’s a great late-game sweeper, where Slowking is hopefully gone.
apologies for any errors, i’m on mobile rn
(please tell me you got all my puns)
 
As soon as Volcarona gets really good people start hating on it. pain

Alright, time to do this again:
:terrakion: to B/B+ (I would even argue for A-, because it seems about as viable as Urshifu-R as a wallbreaker)

Terrakion is honestly criminally underrated and underused. This thing has an amazing STAB combo, Swords Dance, and all of the coverage that it needs, allowing it to break basically everything in the tier. The secret to its success as an wallbreaker is its high-powered STABs, with Stone Edge sitting at a nice 100-BP and CC at an extremely high 120 BP. So, although a base 129 Atk doesn't seem special among wallbreakers (I mean, look at Lando-T's 145 base Atk), it still hits incredibly hard. It has two sets (SubSalac doesn't work that well as it turns out sorry guys), but both have serious potential in the current metagame, and I'm going to show you why.

(a lot of this might seem similar to my earlier Terrakion nom, and that is because not much as changed, but I feel that Terrakion still deserve to rise so I'm making an actual post here instead of tagging my post in the discussion thread)

Choice Band

:ss/terrakion:
Terrakion @ Choice Band
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (NO ADAMANT because its speed tier is very important)
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Megahorn / Poison Jab / Quick Attack

Urshifu Mk III. The Choice Band set is actually really hard to switch into for similar reasons as both of the actual Urshifus: high-powered STABs without many common switchins. In fact, most of the time, all it needs is just its STABs and Earthquake to take out Toxapex (and Aegislash but we don't care about him as much). This Terrakion set is one of the best abusers of FuturePort, because then it can just spam Close Combats without caring about who switches in. Megahorn was the best option when Slowbro was all over the place, but now you can run Poison Jab to rip apart fairies. Quick Attack might seem odd but since Terrakion is fine with just three moves, it can afford that moveslot to improve its matchup against offense. Not that it struggles as much against offense as other wallbreakers though, because its base 108 Spe let it outspeed many key threats, such as Kyurem and Garchomp. And...there's not much to talk about here that's not already obvious. It's really hard to switch into, its speed tier is actually great, and it can have some freedom with its moveslots so its not that predictable.

Swords Dance

:ss/terrakion:
Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (again no Adamant)
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake ( / Megahorn / Poison Jab)

The epitome of no switchins everything dies. This thing at +2 has practically zero defensive counterplay to speak of because everything just gets 2HKOed, if not OHKOed. Again, all it really needs is its STABs, and Earthquake is nice to take on Toxapex. Terrakion loves the meta full of Steel- and Flying-types (when was OU not full of Steel-types again?) because they give it ample opportunities to set up. It can set up on titans like Heatran, Ferrothorn, and Zapdos, all top defensive Pokemon in the current metagame. In addition, thanks to its speed tier and reasonable bulk, Terrakion can stand up to lots of offensive threats and even set up in their faces, including Kyurem, Volcarona, and Hydreigon. And once it's set up, the opponent can basically kiss one of their Pokemon goodbye (I'm still waiting for someone to give me a switchin for this thing!). Seriously, check the calcs. The damage output of this thing at +2 is enormous, and nothing in OU can switch in. Truly a testament for the power of this thing.


So, why has Terrakion gotten better that it warrents a rise so high? Well, for starters, I thought that it was already pretty good before the Zama-C suspect (oh yeah it destroys Zama-C too lol). But if anything, the metagame has only grown kinder to Terrakion. We all know that Pokemon like Weavile, Bisharp, and Dragonite are skyrocketing in viability, and this is just great for Terrakion, who completely murders all of them. We also have Buzzwole and Hippowdon, two of the only Pokemon that even stands a chance against Terrakion, falling out of favor. Finally, rain and sand dropping in viability is something that Terrakion really likes, because rain easily destroys it with their water-typed attacks and packed a revenge killer in Barraskewda and sand commonly pack Hippowdon and Excadrill, two problems for Terrakion. All in all, while I think that Terrakion is a great mon already, recent metagame shifts have only brought things more in its favor.
 
As soon as Volcarona gets really good people start hating on it. pain

Alright, time to do this again:
:terrakion: to B/B+ (I would even argue for A-, because it seems about as viable as Urshifu-R as a wallbreaker)

Terrakion is honestly criminally underrated and underused. This thing has an amazing STAB combo, Swords Dance, and all of the coverage that it needs, allowing it to break basically everything in the tier. The secret to its success as an wallbreaker is its high-powered STABs, with Stone Edge sitting at a nice 100-BP and CC at an extremely high 120 BP. So, although a base 129 Atk doesn't seem special among wallbreakers (I mean, look at Lando-T's 145 base Atk), it still hits incredibly hard. It has two sets (SubSalac doesn't work that well as it turns out sorry guys), but both have serious potential in the current metagame, and I'm going to show you why.

(a lot of this might seem similar to my earlier Terrakion nom, and that is because not much as changed, but I feel that Terrakion still deserve to rise so I'm making an actual post here instead of tagging my post in the discussion thread)

Choice Band

:ss/terrakion:
Terrakion @ Choice Band
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (NO ADAMANT because its speed tier is very important)
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Megahorn / Poison Jab / Quick Attack

Urshifu Mk III. The Choice Band set is actually really hard to switch into for similar reasons as both of the actual Urshifus: high-powered STABs without many common switchins. In fact, most of the time, all it needs is just its STABs and Earthquake to take out Toxapex (and Aegislash but we don't care about him as much). This Terrakion set is one of the best abusers of FuturePort, because then it can just spam Close Combats without caring about who switches in. Megahorn was the best option when Slowbro was all over the place, but now you can run Poison Jab to rip apart fairies. Quick Attack might seem odd but since Terrakion is fine with just three moves, it can afford that moveslot to improve its matchup against offense. Not that it struggles as much against offense as other wallbreakers though, because its base 108 Spe let it outspeed many key threats, such as Kyurem and Garchomp. And...there's not much to talk about here that's not already obvious. It's really hard to switch into, its speed tier is actually great, and it can have some freedom with its moveslots so its not that predictable.

Swords Dance

:ss/terrakion:
Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (again no Adamant)
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake ( / Megahorn / Poison Jab)

The epitome of no switchins everything dies. This thing at +2 has practically zero defensive counterplay to speak of because everything just gets 2HKOed, if not OHKOed. Again, all it really needs is its STABs, and Earthquake is nice to take on Toxapex. Terrakion loves the meta full of Steel- and Flying-types (when was OU not full of Steel-types again?) because they give it ample opportunities to set up. It can set up on titans like Heatran, Ferrothorn, and Zapdos, all top defensive Pokemon in the current metagame. In addition, thanks to its speed tier and reasonable bulk, Terrakion can stand up to lots of offensive threats and even set up in their faces, including Kyurem, Volcarona, and Hydreigon. And once it's set up, the opponent can basically kiss one of their Pokemon goodbye (I'm still waiting for someone to give me a switchin for this thing!). Seriously, check the calcs. The damage output of this thing at +2 is enormous, and nothing in OU can switch in. Truly a testament for the power of this thing.


So, why has Terrakion gotten better that it warrents a rise so high? Well, for starters, I thought that it was already pretty good before the Zama-C suspect (oh yeah it destroys Zama-C too lol). But if anything, the metagame has only grown kinder to Terrakion. We all know that Pokemon like Weavile, Bisharp, and Dragonite are skyrocketing in viability, and this is just great for Terrakion, who completely murders all of them. We also have Buzzwole and Hippowdon, two of the only Pokemon that even stands a chance against Terrakion, falling out of favor. Finally, rain and sand dropping in viability is something that Terrakion really likes, because rain easily destroys it with their water-typed attacks and packed a revenge killer in Barraskewda and sand commonly pack Hippowdon and Excadrill, two problems for Terrakion. All in all, while I think that Terrakion is a great mon already, recent metagame shifts have only brought things more in its favor.
Not to toot your horn BUT how does Terrakion murder Zama-C when it's faster and can OHKO back with CC or behemoth bash? Also Buzzwole is rising due to grass spam being prevalent again. Also it cant reliably come into Bisharp (unless of course pivoting from teammates) since it kinda murders it back with iron head
 
Not to toot your horn BUT how does Terrakion murder Zama-C when it's faster and can OHKO back with CC or behemoth bash? Also Buzzwole is rising due to grass spam being prevalent again. Also it cant reliably come into Bisharp (unless of course pivoting from teammates) since it kinda murders it back with iron head
All true. But Zamac cannot switch in (pointless to continue this part of the argument since its agreed that it would be banned anyway), Buzzwole i feel is still out of favor (rising a tiny bit is not really rising, check the usage stats), and Inever said that it can hard switch into Bisharp (it cannot hard switch into Dragonite and Weavile either) but it easily forces it out to get free setup or just throw out an attack. Bisharp also usually wants to use Knock Off which Terrakion can just kinda abuse with Justified. You lose your item, sure, but you basically get an guarenteed kill.
 
All true. But Zamac cannot switch in (pointless to continue this part of the argument since its agreed that it would be banned anyway), Buzzwole i feel is still out of favor (rising a tiny bit is not really rising, check the usage stats), and Inever said that it can hard switch into Bisharp (it cannot hard switch into Dragonite and Weavile either) but it easily forces it out to get free setup or just throw out an attack. Bisharp also usually wants to use Knock Off which Terrakion can just kinda abuse with Justified. You lose your item, sure, but you basically get an guarenteed kill.
Zama isnt supposed to switch into Terrakion in first place. But it's not in OU right now so let's leave that. Other than that I agree with you. Maybe not B+ for now. But B since I do believe it's on par with mons on B for effectiveness in their roles
 

MrAldo

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Dragapult is definitively S rank. This pokemon is incredible, really versatile and capable of running a multitude of sets capable of disposing of its checks and you really gotta be really wary of all the possibilities. It is just so fast and effective that can easily dictate the pacing of the game on its own since it is also a really efficient pivot too. It is extremely good and easily one step ahead of everything on its current rank even, naturally anti offense and really adaptable versus any playstyle and really splashable on pretty much any playstyle cause of the speedtier + typing (you can easily do some semi-stall with it if you try hard enough tbh). Definitely S Rank, really dominant force in the metagame.

Volcarona and Weavile can definitely rise to A rank. Both great mons that are really threatening, one cause of a busted setup move in quiver dance that can get extremely ugly without a heatran or dragonite so you gotta be extremely wary of it and flame body is always fun, and weavile is a really fast and latent threat that can run SD and has some great coverage to make it really something to consider, stab knock off is always nice and the ice typing offensively really puts a dent on a lot of teams. Some stuff can kind of stop on its tracks but it does liberating to use a mon that is so fast and can pose a threat at any point in the game. Rise Urshifu-Rapid-Strike while at it, very similar in context to these 2. A Rank too!

Cant really say much for the rest of the slate, gotta see them through again, but I will to talk about Terrakion. Terrakion is surprisingly good, but in a weird way. Fighting types that are effective in this metagame are extremely rare right now cause many of the pokemon available on the top ranks naturally check one of the good available ones in Urshifu, but with terrak you have a mon that tanks to its rock typing it can really pose a threat to pretty much all of them. Rock STAB mean none of the natural fight checks that can handle shifu offensively really cant do that here and the overall good speed just below kart (annoying I know) means it can have plenty of opportunity to do its thing.

It is hard to explain cause it is definitely pretty prediction reliant with CB, and SD can be pretty hard to pull off in practice but offensive fighting type neutral to flying, good bulk and ok heatran check that has a STAB move to punish many fight switch-ins plus good speed? pretty good, everything I mention is rather ideal but it does feel better than something like hawlucha or buzzwole or suicune in my eyes. Id raise it to B, anything else just doesnt feel realistic tbh.

Have a nice day everyone.
 
:heatran: A+ -> S

Why? Heatran is a Pokémon you have to prepare for, it is impossible to have any team that does not deal with Heatran either defensively with pokemon such as gastrodon, or eq tyranitar or offensively with hazards and pressure. Heatran's Magma storm threatens every pokemon in the tier with chip, and is only checked by itself and a few other pokemon. But aren't ground types the biggest fear of heatran, well they are but it can manage around that with magma storm + toxic heavily crippling almost every ground type that wants to come in such as landorus-t, garchomp, hippowdown, and other pokemon such as dragonite, slowking, slowking-g, and swampert. Every water type gets pressured by toxic and is no longer a long term check that can consistently come in over a period of a game especially with hazards, knock, and magma storm. Even Pokémon such as slowking, SpD toxapex, SpD Tyranitar, and blissey just get taunted and in addition with magma storm damage, and toxic it easily allows Heatran to break those Pokémon and open holes for its teammates such as Quiver Dance volcarona, CB weavile, CB victini, that appreciate water types being weakened or removed. Heatran is also very good defensively being able to check pokemon such as volcarona, eating up victini's V-Create, Eating up Dragapult's will-o-wisp, resisting the dual stabs of tapu lele and more. It is not only an offensive behemoth that pretty much has a way to break through every Pokémon, it can also stand in the way of some and prevent their progress and take advantage of those turns to fire of brutally powerful magma storms.
 
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Lilburr

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:ss/dragapult:
Seeing a lot of takes that Dragapult belongs in S- rather than S - admittedly I'm just skimming this thread as I usually do but I don't really get why people don't rate it as by far the best and most broken mon in OU. It is absolutely unparalleled, better than Heatran, better than Landorus and Garchomp, nothing comes remotely close to the sheer ridiculousness of Dragapult and it's showing on the ladder, in WCoP qualifiers and in other various tournaments and facets of the metagame.

I don't think I need to regurgitate the arguments that others have put here about how dominant the Specs set is or how its few answers are immensely exploitable, or about how it compresses the immensely important roles of incredible speed control and incredible wallbreaking into one slot. I think it should simply be noted that there is absolutely no bad time to have a Dragapult on your team; even if you run into nightmare matchups featuring some unholy shit like Mandibuzz + Blissey, it is an immensely powerful positioning tool for some of the most devastating threats in the metagame like Tapu Koko, Kartana, and Bisharp. Not to mention how it just bowls over offense including any team that has the nerve to use a Dark-type that isn't Mandibuzz (Weavile and Bisharp, two incredible common offensive Dark-types, are both 2HKOed after rocks or are incredibly close to it on top of having to play awkward 50/50s with their priority moves afterwards).

This thing just pairs way too well with the entire meta and exploits way too much to be anything that isn't S rank. Its shortcomings are so, so minor relative to its immense impact on the metagame and it should rise to S at the very least, if not banned outright.


One other thing I wanted to mention:
:ss/tapu koko: :ss/zeraora:
I find both of these to be incredibly dominant and they really prey on the fact that the best checks to them, Landorus-T / Garchomp (in Zera's case at least) are super lacking in recovery and are immensely crippled by Knock Off from Zera or just don't take Koko's DGleam w/ Rocks up that well to begin with. They also have great defensive utility (moreso Koko) checking stuff like Torn and Zera has the incredibly, impossible-to-understate distinction of being the only viable Pokemon that is both faster than Dragapult and also capable of OHKOing it. I think discussion should be generated on these two rising to A+, it may be a hot take but I see them as incredibly definitive parts of the metagame, right up there with the likes of Tornadus, Toxapex and Ferrothorn.
 

AM

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Haven't really looked at these rankings in awhile mostly cause I just watch/play games and kind of see what's good what isn't and due to lack of interest in forum lately, but I was talking with some people on discord which kind of got me interested again.

My personal S rank would probably be Dragapult, Lando, Garchomp which Pult has been covered, I'm bias for Chomp admittedly it has its moments where other mons are better, and Lando is very versatile in the builder and is the better Zeraora check among other things. Clones nom of Slowking to S kind of got brushed over and granted doesnt matter to me where stuff is placed these days but I would probably consider it. Future Sight is broken (tbh this should be looked at way before Dragapult imo, the move itself) but Slowking has the benefit of being able to soak a lot of hits and fire one off or just Teleport to gain momentum back. Very good support mon the only reason why its "better" than Slowbro and G-Slowking is because it can come in on things like Tapu Lele, Kyurem, and a few specific mons and do this in comparison to its bros. I think their access to Future Sight + Regen alone should leave them in the higher subrank than other stuff, there's not a need to be creative in this format as you can load Future Sight balance and have an advantage against most other builds at worst an even matchup.

Loosely speaking I would drop Ferrothorn, Hydreigon, Pex, Hippo, Nidoking and raise Rilla, Blissey, Slowbro, GKing, Volcarona, Weavile, Ursh. I think the formers have gotten worse and the latter have gotten better or more relevant for different reasons. Blissey isnt even that great but it stops thing like Dragapult from spamming Shadow Ball for free and can qualify as a check to this set unlike other things that people advertise like SpDef Hippo, which does nothing back and forfeits all momentum at least Blissey can teleport. I think A subrank is always going to be the most subjective based on builder and player tendencies so you guys can figure out what fits right but thats just me. I agree with Lilburrs stuff above granted without saying it she explained how Torn has gotten worse :eyes:

A lot of the B ranks like normal is a mix bag of good stuff and hyped stuff that isnt really good but I would move Blacephelon up for similar reason why Dragapult is a pain in the ass in the builder. Its actually a slight illusion of Dragapult being really strong with the Specs set which stems from the fact most of the Ghost resists are very passive or just bad in general and with no Pursuit in the format it just complicates the issue. A lot of the teams that have issues with Dragapult will probably have issues with the clown as well the only difference is that Blace trades power for speed so you have a couple of better counterplays between Blaces speed tier and Dragapults. It's also rocks weak but like Corviknight exists so lol.

Once you hit B- and below idk what is going on. Like G-Weezing is looked at a meme mon but better than Latios, G-Zap just needs Future Sight + Band to rip stuff in half, Cloyster better than half the B ranks cause King's Rock stops the defensive countermeasures half the time, Zarude isn't even as bad as Moltres is, Buzzwole is better now, it's a mess and I would be surprised if more than 50 people that play OU out of the thousands of players and games played every month have even used half of these to justify on a build. The ranks could probably use a big clean up to accept the fact that some of these low rank mons work on specific builds but not part of the bigger metagame. Maybe once Finch finishes up his 50 other duties someone can help him put this together so he can finally take a 40 minute nap lmao.
 
Imagine a Pokemon that's almost twice as fast as your average OU Pokemon, whose primary switch-ins are Blissey and Toxapex. That Pokemon is Dragapult.

Dragapult is borderline broken at a bare minimum. Its speed tier is completely unfair, and that plus its nearly unresisted STAB Ghost type move + U-Turn means that it essentially always has at least one free, low risk move to click, making it incredibly difficult to pressure. In the OU Room, there was a mildly heated discussion the other day about whether Mandibuzz was one of the worst Pokemon in OU, where the opponents to Mandibuzz pointed out that it wasn't even a reliable check to the one thing that it's supposed to beat, Dragapult, given that the bare minimum of chip (u-turn, rocks if it got knocked) is necessary for Dragapult to beat Mandibuzz by Draco Meteoring. I think this speaks less about the effectiveness of Mandibuzz and more of the power of Dragapult. It's one of those Pokemon that turns every game into "what 1 or 2 mons do I need to weaken a bit for this to win?" because it is such a problem in the late game, given that it beats most things by default just by being faster. I cannot stress how ridiculous this thing's speed + typing + bulk is. It is a late game cleaner that basically always has the ability to trade favorably, and always has the option to pivot out, because what the hell is stopping you? The 1* viable scarfer in the tier? And all of that only assumes that you're running the standard Specs set with no variation. Dragapult is very stupid, I hate this thing. pls nerf S tier.

*(im exaggerating, but still)
 
This is my first nom ever so please go easy on me :(

Cloyster C -> at least B

Yeah this mon is absurd. I used to be on the banning KR is stupid side but after using cloy on hyper offense it truly is one of most brain dead mons in the tier. After just a single Shell Smash, Cloyster can rip apart almost every team with just a little hax. Cloyster has ample opportunity to set up on tier staples such as Lando-T and Corviknight thanks to its natural base 180 defense, and from there it’s just a matter of flinch hax. The only mons that can really check it are the slowtwins, pex, and heatran, which all go down to one flinch. Cloy also has the added bonus of being a set up sweeper that doesn’t lose to Rillaboom, thanks to Ice Shard. The weakness to rocks suck, but proper team support can alleviate that. Overall, I think Cloy in C is a crime and I’m glad people are finally catching on to how good it is.

P.S: Ban Kings Rock.
 
:quagsire: to b-/b: even though quagsire fits only on stall, it works really great on that archetype, as it is capable of stuffing or heavily impeding so many otherwise terrifying setup sweepers and breakers like garchomp,SD weavile,bisharp,unaware CM clef,volc,cloyster(unless you get haxed, but still), azumarill, dd dragonite,lucha... while also being one of the better checks the archetype has to heatran. Honestly seeing it ranked lower than some other bulky waters like gastro,suicune and primarina is quite unfair to quaggy boy, and the only reason I'm not straight up nomming it for b is that stall is a good, but not the strongest archetype rn and it doesn't really fit on other archetypes, but for stall it's quite the staple mon
 

Finchinator

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We are working on a mini-update in order to clean up the A and S ranks, so I am going to lock this as we work on this slate. We are going to have a larger slate a little further down the road which captures everything, including fixing the C ranks, which some have been discussing recently, and everything else in-between.
 

Finchinator

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Here is the most recent update, which is intended to update the entirety of the S and A ranks! We will have a full update coming again in a few weeks.

Rises
  • :Dragapult: from A+ to S: Unsurprisingly, the Pokemon that fulfills the role of revenge killer, special breaker, offensive pivot, and status spreader with potential to also function as a sweeper finds its way on to many teams. Everyone's favorite Dragon type has quickly darted back up to the level of viability it had during DLC1 as one of the best Pokemon around. When paired with a trainer that has mastered the in-game fishing rod mini-game, it is especially potent as it can even Shadow Ball past a specially defensive Clefable and Toxapex. However, Dragapult's effectiveness is not limited to mere fishing for drops. Quite on the contrary, Dragapult provides a unique offensive presence that helps balance and bulky offensive teams alike with the Choice Specs and Hex variants. In a metagame where dedicated speed control has become a staple, Choice Scarf users are limited, and there are only a handful of genuinely effective fast options, Dragapult finds itself as the most effective and common Pokemon for the job. Dragapult is one of the few Pokemon that is able to define the metagame, warping metagame trends to reflect its increased viability with the rise of Dark types on offense. Overall, Dragapult is one of the most viable Pokemon in the tier and this rise reflects that.
  • :Slowking: from A+ to S: Slowking was UU in GSC, UU in ADV, NU in DPP, RU in BW, RU in ORAS, NU in SM, and... S rank in OU in SS. With the departure of Pursuit and change of Teleport's effect, Slowking has made one of the most unlikely intergenerational improvements in tiering and viability in the history of competitive Pokemon. Slowking is a respectable defensive presence that matches-up well with Heatran, Nidoking, Tapu Lele, and Urshifu-Rapid as is, but Teleport allows it to stomach a hit or two from virtually any opposing Pokemon lacking a super effective STAB and get in a less durable teammate that will instantly be positioned to make some progress. This coupled with the potential of preceding this pivoting with Future Sight, which can negate defensive counterplay from the opponent, makes Slowking one of the most effective Pokemon in the metagame. Unlike other walls, Slowking is able to avoid passivity due to being a pivot, threatening Scald burns, and the looming threat of Future Sight. Unlike other pivots, Slowking has a good defensive outlook and it is a practical option in the metagame as is. Overall, Slowking is one of the most common and consistent Pokemon in the tier, distancing itself from Slowbro in recent months due to it covering more in the teambuilder as it stands.
  • :Zeraora: from A to A+: In a metagame where speed control is limited and Electric immunities are a must, Zeraora finds itself as a convenient option. While a slew of Pokemon check or counter Zeraora, it is able to outlast many of these options due to its underspoken longevity. Heavy Duty Boots allow for repeated entry when paired with slower pivots, Knock Off makes it so that damage on foes lacking recovery is there to stay -- this applies especially to Landorus-T and Garchomp, and Volt Switch allows for chip to wrack up on non-immune foes as Zeraora exits before taking damage itself. Ultimately, Zeraora is the ultimate gameflow Pokemon that doubles as a revenge killer and Electric immunity, which makes it very appealing. Teams are finding it to be more and more practical, therefore leading to an uptick in usage and viability.
  • :Bisharp: and :Weavile: from A- to A: The metagame may be in a dark place right now, unfortunately. Bisharp and Weavile continue their rise to prominance as they peak once more, surfacing in A rank this time. Both Bisharp and Weavile pose major threats to balance teams with limited pools of checks and counters thanks to great STABs and strong attacking stats. It is worth noting that they provide Ghost resistances and also are able to clobber now S rank options Dragapult and Slowking with their Dark STABs, too. Perhaps these two are caught in the perfect storm that let their viability continuously increase, but perhaps they are here to stay as the duo torments the tier.
  • :Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: from A- to A: Urshifu-Rapid finds itself seeing more and more usage as time elapses. It is able to check the aforementioned Dark types and very few things are able to wall it with the support of entry hazards or Future Sight. Surging Strike and Close Combat both are very strong, U-turn gives it the ability to pivot out of tougher situations, and Aqua Jet allows for revenge killing of Excadrill in Sand or Volcarona. Overall, Urshifu-Rapid is a promising Pokemon that keeps getting better as a direct or indirect result of metagame trends.
  • :Volcarona: from A- to A: Not sure how the most broken Pokemon in the metagame was ever in A-, so let's fix that!
  • :Blissey: from B+ to A-: Blissey is a Pokemon that is very easy to abuse, but despite that it is still quite a good option. It is a blanket check to fragile special attackers that has utility options and can pivot to less durable teammates. This unique niche is more than enough to help solidify Blissey as an A- tier Pokemon in OU right now.
Drops
  • :Toxapex: from A+ to A: In a world where Slowking is rising from A+ to S, it appears the bane of Gilbert Gottfried's existence is trending in the exact opposite direction. Toxapex is, and will continue to be, a timeless OU Pokemon going back to last generation. With this said, the metagame is very well equipped for it right now. Slowbro and Slowking are able to minimize it by swapping in, setting a Future Sight, and letting another Pokemon enter unscathed. Ground and Electric types are both very effective offensively right now. Magma Storm Heatran, Calm Mind + Thunder(bolt) Clefable, and Kyurem are all as good as ever. Toxapex was once one of the absolute best Pokemon, but then people put more emphasis on abusing it in teambuilding, so now it is a lot less consistent and walls fewer Pokemon.
  • :Tornadus-Therian: from A+ to A: Rumor has it that I lost a ladder game to a Hurricane miss about a half hour ago; the rest is history. Jokes aside, Tornadus-Therian's unreliability highlights a sweeping sentiment of hesitance towards relying on it as an offensive option. Hurricane, Focus Blast, and even the rare Heat Wave find themselves missing far too often for Tornadus-Therian's Nasty Plot set to become a mainstay. The utility sets are still viable, oftentimes being less reliant on Hurricane's accuracy in a pinch. However, there are various other Defog users that are effective, including huge competitor Corviknight. Because of this, Tornadus-T is less common and less viable for the time being.
  • :Ferrothorn: from A+ to A: Facing more competition in the Spikes department from Skarmory, which is now a consistent A- tier Pokemon, and struggling to find its way on to teams due to a growing pool of strong Steel types such as Corviknight, Heatran, Excadrill, the aforementioned Skarmory, Melmetal, Bisharp, Kartana, and Magnezone, Ferrothorn struggles to find its way on to as many teams as it once did. Ferrothorn also struggles against Zapdos, which is now running Heat Wave frequently, and Corviknight, which can outlast it and easily Defog in its face.
  • :Hydreigon: from A to A-: Checking Heatran and resisting Ghost type moves can only go so far. Hydreigon's dynamic special attacking presence is helpful, but it is limited due to an average speed tier and the abundance of Fairy types and revenge killers that take it out. This coupled with there being less room for it to fit on to balance teams leaves us with a bit less room for Hydreigon to be used or viable right now.
  • :Hippowdon: from A- to B+: Hippowdon struggles to maintain a presence in a tier with many potent Ground types that do not struggle with passivity or common Defoggers. Sand is a practical tool that may set the tempo for an entire team, but with Tyranitar still being viable, Hippowdon is incapable of distinguishing itself enough to warrant placement in the A ranks right now.
  • :Mandibuzz: from A- to B+: Mandibuzz faces stiff competition and struggles with the abundance of status and Knock Off in the tier. With Landorus-T, Hippowdon, and Heatran being able to cripple this Defogger, Mandibuzz's presence is oftentimes a shortlived one, which is not good for something you would use to combat Pokemon like Dragapult, which tend to be around late game. Mandibuzz structures are still around, but they are far less common than earlier this generation.
  • :Nidoking: from A- to B+: Nidoking is uncapable of checking anything of note besides Tapu Koko and Clefable, making it an almost purely offensive option. Unfortunately, it lacks the speed tier or OHKO power to fulfill this niche without support. While it can be very effective with the right support, this is still not enough to warrant usage of it on many different archetypes or even consistent usage on the archetypes it does work on.
  • :Tapu Fini: from A- to B+: When is the last time someone woke up and said "oh yeah I want to use Tapu Fini today, let's get it"? Like legit, I do not think this has ever happened. I think that about sums it up. Good night.
:blobwizard:
 
Glad to see that the VR is back. Anyway, here are some thoughts that me and notsotryharding33 put together. Enjoy!

B to A-
Despite the effectiveness from the presence of other bulky waters like, Toxapex, Swampert, Tapu Fini, and the slow twins, I firmly believe that Gastrodon strongly holds a place in the metagame. Gastrodon might sound weird but it’s really not. Storm Drain, Recover, Clear Smog, and substantial special defense grants it with great traits over the other. It’s even able to check pokemon like Rotom-Wash, Non G-Drain Volc, Aegislash, Melmetal, Tapu Koko, Nidoking and Zeraoara. The uptick in Rillaboom, and Kyurem as well as strong Knock Off abusers slightly hurt it but nonetheless the gelatinous little sea slug is still quite potent.


B to to A-
Victini is a great pivot. No Cinderace means there’s no mon that can do the whole HDB hit and run technique better overall. In a meta where Slowking is a lot more potent than Slowbro is beneficial, and overall special walls rising in general are gonna help out Tini in the long-run. Victini is adept at contemplating danger via the abuse of Future Sight. Victini is able to break through annoying regen or Lando/Toxapex cores too pretty nicely due to this. Also worth mentioning that Victini has tons of coverage moves: Glaciate, Energy Ball, Focus Blast, Thunder, and Scorching Sands are all worth noting. Victini can ultimately pick it’s checks and counters. Glaciate can remove things like Garchomp/Dragonite, Energy Ball nukes Gastro and Swampert, Focus Blast punishes Tyranitar, and Sands can be used for Tran, while also punishing aggresive switch-ins. Overall I find Victini to be a very versatile pivot in the metagame that is able to soften a lot of checks w/ FS with the abundance of tools it has in it’s arsenal.

B to B+
Rotom-Wash is a superb pivot and more than a washing machine lol…It’s admittedly fallen off a bit this generation but it’s still picking up. A pokemon that can counter top tier threats like Tornadus, Heatran, Landorus, and Garchomp is significant for a mon like this. Being able to bait out pokemon like Rillaboom and burn them via Will-O-Wisp and pivot on pokemon like Kyurem to get in something safely brings a lot to teams. I feel as if Rotom-Wash’s utility and uses should give it a mark in B+


C+ to B-
Even though the meta hates it, I feel as if the clown actually has one niche. Beast Boost + Insane 151 base special attack. And slightly something has impressed at the least, the declining usage and viability of Tyranitar. More and more people are complaining that Blacephalon is a major threat to teams and that there are still not many switch-ins that can take it on. Only a slight raise here since Blacephalon still has competition between other ghosts, poor bulk, and issues with coming on rocks; etc. But I must say that this subtle niche is enough for Blacehpalon to rise out of the C ranks.

C+ to B-
Nice role compression in being able to be a rocker, and Lele check in one. Small uptick in Jirachi due to certain meta trends, and after the Cinderace and Magearna. The scarf set provides utility with Trick and Healing Wish which dismantles checks like Corviknight, Heatran, and Slowking, and Healing Wish which is great for allowing a teammate like Urshifu to get a second chance at breaking the opponent's team.
Very slight rise here, since Jirachi is still very passive, hard to fit, and not viable and still a weak option.

B- to B
Rock is starting to be a very strong type in the metagame, with the lack of resistances. Hippowdon isn’t even that common, and so many more specially defensive pokemon are potent in the upcoming meta trends. From the stance of being a fighting type, Terrakion currently faces competition with Urshifu-Rapid-Strike, and Galarian Zapdos. A niche in being an abuser of Swords Dance, dark type moves, and a higher speed tier that merits outpacing threats like Garchomp, Volcarona, and Hydreigon. The offensive meta and a couple of defensive pokemon like Lando are the main things really holding it back, in addition to Rillaboom’s sky-high presence. In terms of it’s presence as a breaker however, Terrakion isn’t that bad. It can abuse FS, and it can also use Megahorn to hit pokemon like the Slowtwins and Tangrowth. Overall Terrakion is starting to find somewhat of a place in OU as a rock type breaker.

B+ to B-
Nidoking has fallen off the charts. It’s outclassed by breakers like Kyurem, Lele, and Dragapult, and the niche of breaking Pex/Mag cores (when Mag was in the game), is gone. Nidoking ultimately strains to find a solid point in the metagame as Slowking continues to rise and it is in a tricky speed w/ a speed tier of 85 leaving it vulnerable to other threats like Rillaboom, Landorus-Therian, Ushifu-Rapid Strike, Excadrill, and Hydreigon and overall the niche of it is lost. We are also seeing a rise and uptick and Gastrodon as well which is a solid check to it. One niche I guess is being able to reliably beat Toxapex and check most variants of Tapu Koko. But other than that Nidoking is pretty fragile, not fast enough, hurt by the offensive meta and outclassed by bigger threats as well as held back by the rise of Slowking. Ultimately Nidoking should find a spot in B- as a result of this.
 
Last edited:

Finchinator

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A to A-
Also a very slight drop. Mainly the presence of Corviknight as a more reliable defogger and the fact that Kyurem is very very detrimental to the presence of Zapdos and pokemon like CM Clef, and Taunt Heatran are able to invalidate greatly hurt Zapdos rn. Zapdos' main niche as a defogger other than checking Rillaboom, and Kartana is ruined, and it does suffer a lot in terms of a pokemon compared to Corviknight and others. Overall I think Zapdos should drop from A to A-

A- to B+ (or lower)
Mandibuzz has almost fully lost it’s niche as a defogger other than being a way of reliably checking Ghost and Psychic type pokemon. Just like Zapdos the presence of Corviknights viability hurts it, and in the efforts in trying to attempt to check pokemon it can be really passive. Mandibuzz heavily relies on it’s boots as well as it can easily be worn down. As long as breakers in Lele and Kyurem rise and the bulkier meta deems as a way of countering it, As a result of these changes, I think Mandibuzz should stay out of the A Ranks until something better comes along.
For what it's worth, Zapdos is currently A- and Mandibuzz just fell from A- to B+. Either way, thanks for contributing to discussion, but just wanted to make sure that was known (and it is reflected in the OP as such, too).
 

Ruft

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Glad to see that the VR is back. Anyway, here are some thoughts that me and notsotryharding33 put together. Enjoy!

B to A-
Despite the effectiveness from the presence of other bulky waters like, Toxapex, Swampert, Tapu Fini, and the slow twins, I firmly believe that Gastrodon strongly holds a place in the metagame. Gastrodon might sound weird but it’s really not. Storm Drain, Recover, Clear Smog, and substantial special defense grants it with great traits over the other. It’s even able to check pokemon like Rotom-Wash, Non G-Drain Volc, Aegislash, Melmetal, Tapu Koko, Nidoking and Zeraoara. The uptick in Rillaboom, and Kyurem as well as strong Knock Off abusers slightly hurt it but nonetheless the gelatinous little sea slug is still quite potent.


B to to A-
Victini is a great pivot. No Cinderace means there’s no mon that can do the whole HDB hit and run technique better overall. In a meta where Slowking is a lot more potent than Slowbro is beneficial, and overall special walls rising in general are gonna help out Tini in the long-run. Victini is adept at contemplating danger via the abuse of Future Sight. Victini is able to break through annoying regen or Lando/Toxapex cores too pretty nicely due to this. Also worth mentioning that Victini has tons of coverage moves: Glaciate, Energy Ball, Focus Blast, Thunder, and Scorching Sands are all worth noting. Victini can ultimately pick it’s checks and counters. Glaciate can remove things like Garchomp/Dragonite, Energy Ball nukes Gastro and Swampert, Focus Blast punishes Tyranitar, and Sands can be used for Tran, while also punishing aggresive switch-ins. Overall I find Victini to be a very versatile pivot in the metagame that is able to soften a lot of checks w/ FS with the abundance of tools it has in it’s arsenal.

B to B+
Rotom-Wash is a superb pivot and more than a washing machine lol…It’s admittedly fallen off a bit this generation but it’s still picking up. A pokemon that can counter top tier threats like Tornadus, Heatran, Landorus, and Garchomp is significant for a mon like this. Being able to bait out pokemon like Rillaboom and burn them via Will-O-Wisp and pivot on pokemon like Kyurem to get in something safely brings a lot to teams. I feel as if Rotom-Wash’s utility and uses should give it a mark in B+


C+ to B-
Even though the meta hates it, I feel as if the clown actually has one niche. Beast Boost + Insane 151 base special attack. And slightly something has impressed at the least, the declining usage and viability of Tyranitar. More and more people are complaining that Blacephalon is a major threat to teams and that there are still not many switch-ins that can take it on. Only a slight raise here since Blacephalon still has competition between other ghosts, poor bulk, and issues with coming on rocks; etc. But I must say that this subtle niche is enough for Blacehpalon to rise out of the C ranks.

C+ to B-
Nice role compression in being able to be a rocker, and Lele check in one. Small uptick in Jirachi due to certain meta trends, and after the Cinderace and Magearna. The scarf set provides utility with Trick and Healing Wish which dismantles checks like Corviknight, Heatran, and Slowking, and Healing Wish which is great for allowing a teammate like Urshifu to get a second chance at breaking the opponent's team.
Very slight rise here, since Jirachi is still very passive, hard to fit, and not viable and still a weak option.

B- to B
Rock is starting to be a very strong type in the metagame, with the lack of resistances. Hippowdon isn’t even that common, and so many more specially defensive pokemon are potent in the upcoming meta trends. From the stance of being a fighting type, Terrakion currently faces competition with Urshifu-Rapid-Strike, and Galarian Zapdos. A niche in being an abuser of Swords Dance, dark type moves, and a higher speed tier that merits outpacing threats like Garchomp, Volcarona, and Hydreigon. The offensive meta and a couple of defensive pokemon like Lando are the main things really holding it back, in addition to Rillaboom’s sky-high presence. In terms of it’s presence as a breaker however, Terrakion isn’t that bad. It can abuse FS, and it can also use Megahorn to hit pokemon like the Slowtwins and Tangrowth. Overall Terrakion is starting to find somewhat of a place in OU as a rock type breaker.

B+ to B-
Nidoking has fallen off the charts. It’s outclassed by breakers like Kyurem, Lele, and Dragapult, and the niche of breaking Pex/Mag cores (when Mag was in the game), is gone. Nidoking ultimately strains to find a solid point in the metagame as Slowking continues to rise and it is in a tricky speed w/ a speed tier of 85 leaving it vulnerable to other threats like Rillaboom, Landorus-Therian, Ushifu-Rapid Strike, Excadrill, and Hydreigon and overall the niche of it is lost. We are also seeing a rise and uptick and Gastrodon as well which is a solid check to it. One niche I guess is being able to reliably beat Toxapex and check most variants of Tapu Koko. But other than that Nidoking is pretty fragile, not fast enough, hurt by the offensive meta and outclassed by bigger threats as well as held back by the rise of Slowking. Ultimately Nidoking should find a spot in B- as a result of this.
You should pay some more attention to the current ranking of these Pokemon. (Rotom-W is already B+, Blacephalon is already B-, Terrakion is C+.)
 
View attachment 341120
Glastrier from C+ to C

I actually really like this mon but you need a compelling reason to be using it over Mamoswine on non-TR teams and accordingly I don't think they should share a rank. Mamoswine offers Thick Fat or Oblivious (ignores intimidate), a much better speed tier, electric immunity, priority, STAB earthquake, and rocks. I have used Glastrier quite a bit and you constantly wish you had a different set. If you are running Sub SD, you're probably not running Close Combat, which is arguably a main differentiator with Mamoswine (though mamo gets Superpower). SD 3 attacks can get a kill, but you're most likely going to get revenge killed. Also consider that Sub Kyurem does much the same you want Glastrier to do, whether it is Freeze Dry EP or even a Dragon Dance set. I haven't even mentioned hazards yet because you're gonna want boots but you also want leftovers with a sub set. Choiced sets are completely outclassed by Mamo. That's not to say this mon can't work and snowball your opponent with Moxie + its crazy bulk but when you look at the rest of C+ you can see ice horse is the odd one out.
Wait glastrier is still ranked? What the hell? Also why stop at C? From what I've seen, it's only really useful on trick room teams and TR teams arent really doing really well. It's a niche mon in a niche playstyle that I feel like wants more mons than Glastrier. It's not a TR staple so I'd say go lower. C- feels more in line with Glastrier than C
 

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