Resource SS OU DLC2 Viability Ranking Thread [SEE: Page 105, Post 2618]

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I myself actually haven't really used Avalugg in OU, and don't really have an opinion on its ranking, but I was just giving my personal thoughts on why it might still be ranked, as it ohkoes weavile with Body Press
 
I myself actually haven't really used Avalugg in OU, and don't really have an opinion on its ranking, but I was just giving my personal thoughts on why it might still be ranked, as it ohkoes weavile with Body Press
Yeah strongest body press in OU and 4th strongest in the game in general.
 
Support thundy-i is really really bad, its passive asf and t wave + swagger is just bad and has been gutted, not even the reason it is good lol. NP is the reason it is good and lash out is gonna be at +1 not at +2 and even then

+1 4 Atk Thundurus Lash Out vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 199-235 (52 - 61.5%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

nah its not doing much at all and investing into it is just bad. Lando is not gonna be ur counterplay to thundy at all lol and just once u reveal ur set to be mixed, or NP u will easily know ur counterplay.
If Thundurus-I had Max Neutral Attack and a Boost from Bulk Up and it can OHKO it after Stealth Rock

+1 252 Atk Thundurus Lash Out (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 245-289 (64.1 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Thundurus Lash Out (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 327-385 (85.6 - 100.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
 
If Thundurus-I had Max Neutral Attack and a Boost from Bulk Up and it can OHKO it after Stealth Rock

+1 252 Atk Thundurus Lash Out (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 245-289 (64.1 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Thundurus Lash Out (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 327-385 (85.6 - 100.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
then i will just switch in my physical wall and u have to predict that lando-t will hard on the 2nd turn instead of just the 1st turn and ur left at +2 alr but u have a pathetically weak lash out or they just have smth and pivot to a physical wall such as zapdos who can just volt switch away
 

Ruft

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Speaking of OU, let's talk about some of UUBL mons:

Blaziken

You already seen the Swords Dance and Choice Band sets, but there's also other options that Blaziken has such being good in sun teams. Blaze Kick has less power than Flare Blitz but it has less drawback such as no recoil and increased critical hit chance, High Jump Kick is slightly powerful than Close Combat and has more PP, but Blaziken gets weared down if it misses due to its 90% accuracy. Stone Edge and Brave Bird Overkill Volcarona, also Brave Bird can deal a lot of damage to Kommo-o, Urshifu Rapid Strike Style and Galarian Zapdos. Bulk Up + Shuca Berry lets Blaziken take on Landorus-Therian more Efficiently, Blaziken will be 2HKOed from a Earthquake with +1 Defense and Shuca Berry, it can OHKO with +1 Flare Blitz in sun.

Thundurus

Thundurus has the Same base SpA as Zapdos but its more frailer and has more speed, Also it has Nasty Plot, a move that Zapdos doesn't have. And of course it lacks Hurricane. But on the bright side, it has Prankster with supportive moves such as Tailwind, Defog, Taunt, Toxic and Thunder Wave. It also has Weather Ball just like Zapdos. It also has Defiant with Lash Out, it can predict a Offensive Landorus-Therian switching in against Thundurus, it will get OHKOed by a +2 Lash Out. I know Lando can't touch Thundurus with Earthquake but Stone Edge will get it for good if Thundurus has no defense boosts.

Mienshao

Being the 3rd fastest Fighting type of OU does make Mienshao unique, Regenerator and U-Turn altogether can give its Allies more momentium. High Jump Kick and Close Combat can Depend on the situation, High Jump Kick can deal massive damage with Reckless and Choice Band and it can even OHKO Urshifu-Rapid-Strike and outspeed it, However it will require to give up Regenerator for that. It has Swords Dance, with Conjuction with Drain Punch it can always be Healthy thanks to Regenerator.
Reminder that, as per the rules, you need to provide replays if you're gonna bring up unranked Pokemon. Next time this happens it will result in a deletion of the post (and potentially an infraction).
Ah yes I suppose Body Press makes sense, indeed. Still, I'm not sold on Avalugg being ranked at all. Have people seen it thrown around in any high-level ladder, or tournament game?
It saw some usage in the previous OLT and SCL:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-580675
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-589136
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-589320
It's true that these stall variants have died down though, so we might drop it to UR next slate.


Furthermore, I'd like to announce that Mandibuzz is unblacklisted. All other VR rules still apply.
 
Feels a crime to rank something with calcs like this 252+ Atk Thundurus Lash Out vs. 252 HP / 136 Def Garchomp: 75-89 (17.8 - 21.1%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery like comparing to Zapdos which has superior defensive utility matches better into grounds superior movepool the few distinctions are super meh tbh
 
Okay, I'm sorry, this is going to sound elitist but no you're not. 1200s is still very far down on the low ladder and the opponents you're facing there are rarely going to be competent players, unless you run into someone's alt or something. There's not really any hard limit for where replays should be posted from (unfortunately) but aim for at least 1600s and ideally 1800s+ if you really want them to have credibility, or find replays from tour games.
 

Ruft

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It saw some usage in the previous OLT and SCL:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-580675
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-589136
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-589320
It's true that these stall variants have died down though, so we might drop it to UR next slate.
Thanks for these, Ruft. Now I'm a piss-poor player, but in my opinion these replay show why Avalugg should not be used in a serious team rather than the other way around. In replay 1) we can see how Avalugg is utterly defeated by Ferrothorn, losing a ton to Rapid Spin and being forced out by Leech Seed. It doesn't even get the chance to use Body Press, it's too afraid of Iron Barbs + Rocky Helmet. Avalugg comes out two other times: the first one, it KO's a severly weakened Lando-T. The second one, it gets 2HKO'd by a burned Urshifu. It really felt talah was playing at 5vs6 for most of that game. In the second replay, Avalugg seems to be an impassable roadblock to Arctozolt...until we notice it's being steadily PP wasted. At the point where Sagiri forfeits, Avalugg had 1 Recover left, while Arctozolt was plenty healthy HP- and PP-wise. In the last one, Avalugg gets Toxiked and Burned, which highlights the need for a Cleric, except the Cleric gets KO'd later on. Its Heavy-Duty Boots are Knocked off, meaning it gets sacked against Weavile a few turns later where it might have been able to avoid the KO and KO back with Body Press if not for Stealth Rocks.

In all three replays, the Avalugg player has lost the game, and the Avalugg has not contributed for much.
 
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Whats the issue latios has?specs have very little switch ins from psychic to mystical fire to aura sphere to psychic to draco
I can understand why latias its weaker crucially missing the two hit ko vs clef
Is it competition with lele and pult??
 
Whats the issue latios has?specs have very little switch ins from psychic to mystical fire to aura sphere to psychic to draco
I can understand why latias its weaker crucially missing the two hit ko vs clef
Is it competition with lele and pult??
both the mons you mentioned are just better, as well as blacephalon. latios needs the power of specs but it is very prediction heavy because of that and it can be switched around quite easily by bulkier teams unless you get several predictions all perfectly in a row. base 110 is also not that good speed in this gen when koko and torn are two of the best pivots in the game and weavile is a top 5 mon. psychic/dragon is also not good STAB especially when your other option is spamming ghost moves that only ttar and blissey switch into somewhat safely
 

Da Pizza Man

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Furthermore, I'd like to announce that Mandibuzz is unblacklisted. All other VR rules still apply.
Good, now unban Omari P while you are at it.
:Blastoise:: C- --> UR

Does this even do anything? If you want a Shell Smash sweeper, it is outclassed by Cloyster and Omastar, and if you want a defensive Water-type, those aren't exactly hard to come by right now. Flip Turn + Rapid Spin is kinda cool, I guess? However, really just don't think that alone is enough justification to keep this thing ranked.
 
:Blastoise:: C- --> UR

Does this even do anything? If you want a Shell Smash sweeper, it is outclassed by Cloyster and Omastar, and if you want a defensive Water-type, those aren't exactly hard to come by right now. Flip Turn + Rapid Spin is kinda cool, I guess? However, really just don't think that alone is enough justification to keep this thing ranked.
it cna be a good smasher on rain as it can water spout shit and hyper beam through water resists
 
Good, now unban Omari P while you are at it.
:Blastoise:: C- --> UR

Does this even do anything? If you want a Shell Smash sweeper, it is outclassed by Cloyster and Omastar, and if you want a defensive Water-type, those aren't exactly hard to come by right now. Flip Turn + Rapid Spin is kinda cool, I guess? However, really just don't think that alone is enough justification to keep this thing ranked.
Ohkos Rotom wash in rain
 
I find it funny that he has tried to nominate that "user" to a poke like Thundurus Pransker, in a generation (OU) where the tapus still exist, the Stealth Rock still exist, and that he does not have something better than all the electrics that are there classified here... as Electric Type, better choose Tapukoko or even Regielequi in case you want a lot of speed and it even has Rapin Spin; if you want to take it defensive you have zapdos, which with rockyhemelt, static, roost makes better use of being defensive, utilitarian, better defoger user, and on top of that it will still hit well with heat wave, thundervolt and hurricane (the latter doesn't even have thundy), like Defiant you have a flyer that without being so fast, if you are not prepared for it can ruin the fight (although of course, it is not unstoppable either, I am talking about galar zapdos) the red bird that is even more resistant, eh even a defiant user as Bisharp (who ironically does not do very well) and finally what leaves thundurus incarnate useless is that there are zeraora and its Therian form, the first although it currently has many problems, it can play those roles of "defiant" without be, with a solid speed and with wider and more solid coverage than thundu, and worse this last one, if you REALLY want to use thundurus, use its therian form, this form has more special attack, less speed, but better hit a, and like zeraora, they are immune to electric, something that normal thundu is technically afraid of, there is no argument to use it honestly... even in Low Ladder I run into these versions of Thundu, I see more Thundu Therian than to normal, implying that this form is (although +C) better to use than this mon, that honestly, I don't see any use for it..
 
Whats the issue latios has?specs have very little switch ins from psychic to mystical fire to aura sphere to psychic to draco
I can understand why latias its weaker crucially missing the two hit ko vs clef
Is it competition with lele and pult??
Thing is that Latios got two moves (Mystical Fire and Aura Sphere) it would have killed for in previous generations. Sure Mystical Fire has rather low BP, but Latios can now take out Heatran, Tyranitar and Ferrothorn with good prediction, without resorting to dumbass hidden powers, Trick shenanigans etc. Latios also loves the lack of Pursuit this gen.

You would have thought it was his time to shine again, but sadly it's kind of outclassed.
 
:Scizor: B -> B+

Scizor is enjoying some favorable trends in the metagame right now. It has been criticized in the past for being a lousy check to stuff like Lele, Rilla, and Melmetal. But Lele uses Scarf more than Specs, Rilla is back as a top-tier threat, but with a bulky SD set and Melmetal runs Toxic/Protect sets most commonly. Scizor can switch repeatedly into such sets easily multiple times. Then it can set up, pivot, or just click Bullet Punch. This is why it has become a common feature on Hyper Offense since Scarf Lele, Rilla and Melmetal have really good matchups vs HO. It can also check Weavile just fine, and pivot into Kartana (Particularly Scarf) at least once following which one can take advantage of its choice lock. These again are dangerous mons vs HO. It also has a decently good matchup vs Sand teams, and can provide chip damage vs other HO threats like Barraskewda.

Scizor also has a huge move pool between moves like Bullet Punch, Knock off, U-Turn, Sand Tomb, Superpower, and Dual Wingbeat which means that it can pick and choose its checks and counters. It also enjoys flexibility in items between Leftovers, HDB, Life Orb, and Protective Pads.

I would have nominated it to A-, but Zapdos is very common in the meta, and outside HO, Melmetal and Heatran are usually better Steel types on Bulky Offense and Balance, while Corviknight and Skarmory are better on Stall. However, Scizor has recovery that former 2 don't have, and Scizor is much less passive than the latter 2, thus it has a niche on non-HO archetypes as well.
 
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:cresselia: C -> C+

I was experimenting with Cresselia and found that it works great in OU as a stall breaker and not just as Trick Room utility, almost to the same extent as Mew. The set I wound up using is:

Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 192 SpA / 68 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Substitute
- Skill Swap

The idea is to pair this with hazard stacking, knocking & statusing dark types in various ways. Essentially the same things you want to set up for Cosmic Power Mew, you'd want to do for this set as well.

So what sets this set apart from Cosmic Power Mew? Once dark types are handled, +2 Cress can OHKO SpD Toxapex after rocks, Skill Swap Unaware/Magic Guard against Clefable/Quag (which also reactivates any toxic on Magic Guard users), set up against and OHKO Blissey among other things. Facing Taunt is a little annoying but then again, you have 5 other mons to support Cresselia. Skill Swap also ends up being useful in other situations like vs Flash Fire Heatran (if you know the set) or Pressure Corviknight. Mew also has Skill Swap, but it lacks the bulk that Cresselia provides from the start.

I'm not the best builder but I feel like this has potential? Cresselia is bulkier than Mew, meaning subs aren't broken by Seismic Toss or "weak" Knock Offs. Maybe one could play around with the speed stat a bit depending on if you want slow sub (to preemtively re-sub on an opposing U-turn) or fast sub (to prevent status moves)

Some replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1675643319
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1675637982

The team I used to test Cresselia: https://pokepast.es/32d1cbc529a70017
 
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It can't touch Dark types useless if it has Moonblast to deal with them, however this will give up Substitute for that.
So this is where you decide whether it is more difficult to remove every pokemon with a toxic, or just status the dark type on the opponent's team. Personally, I think pretty much everyone would rather rely on doing the latter rather than the former. It seems kind of strange to be hard walled by dark types but that is so much better than being hit by toxic for crit-me-not sweepers. It is why demon mew chooses taunt over body press (as well as blocking haze). No body press means you are walled by dark types, but not totally stuffed by haze or toxic. Dark types rarely have recovery (pretty much just hydreigon) so wearing them down is way easier than killing anything that would run toxic like hippo, toxapex, tran, and many many more hard to move walls.

As for cress, not having taunt I think is a hard sell for me over demon mew but I will give it a try.
 
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