Resource SS OU DLC2 Viability Ranking Thread [SEE: Page 105, Post 2618]

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Sorry for mentioning slowbro, I meant Clef because this set runs knock off. But beating bro is not the only pokemon u want to beat
I mean even then. Itemless Pex, Fini, almost all Physical tank walls this thing. Buzzwole, Tangrowth can take a hit and then sleep powder it. Walls that can be beaten by 3 attacks SD LO cant be broken by this set. Hell even Swampert, one of the mons that drop to LO CC, can fight this set.
 
I mean even then. Itemless Pex, Fini, almost all Physical tank walls this thing. Buzzwole, Tangrowth can take a hit and then sleep powder it. Walls that can be beaten by 3 attacks SD LO cant be broken by this set. Hell even Swampert, one of the mons that drop to LO CC, can fight this set.
You right, thats only mentioning the defensive moms, any priority or even scarf spectrier beats this set
 
You right, thats only mentioning the defensive moms, any priority or even scarf spectrier beats this set
Endure can be used like protect to secure extra speed boosts, so Blaziken is only vulnerable if spec comes in the same turn as Blaziken.
Edit: +2 reversal does 75.3 - 88.4% to pex, and +4 ohkos. Slowing galar, who quad resists reversal, takes 60-70%. Pretty much nothing can comfortably eat a reversal from Blaziken.
 
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chimp

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Endure can be used like protect to secure extra speed boosts, so Blaziken is only vulnerable if spec comes in the same turn as Blaziken.
Edit: +2 reversal does 75.3 - 88.4% to pex, and +4 ohkos. Slowing galar, who quad resists reversal, takes 60-70%. Pretty much nothing can comfortably eat a reversal from Blaziken.
How realistic is it that you'll get Blaziken to +4, though, considering you also may need to expend turns to Endure? Genuine question. Saying something can *still* not OHKO something even +4 doesn't seem like a compelling argument to me.
 
How realistic is it that you'll get Blaziken to +4, though, considering you also may need to expend turns to Endure? Genuine question. Saying something can *still* not OHKO something even +4 doesn't seem like a compelling argument to me.
That is a fair point, but it's not too difficult to get two swords dances on a defensive mon with a good read. I also just wanted to point out that even just a +2 reversal cleanly 2hkos both max defense pex and fini, meaning that once you're set up nothing can switch in to Blaziken. Saying that it's flat out walled by those two is incorrect because even if you stay in to KO your wall is down 60-70%, which is especially bad for fini or any other tank/wall without reliable recovery. The only way to take out a blaziken after it's setup is either a very fast scarfer (which doesn't work after only a few speed boosts) or priority. The reversal set is best used on HO teams to blow a few holes in a team before it dies, or potentially as a sweeper on balance/offense once it's checks are removed. It's not the best pokemon, but it's definitely usable and worthy of its rank imo
 
The Reversal set IMO is simply a gimmick for several reasons.
First it requires all Rough Skin, Iron Barbs and Rocky Helmet users to be removed first or to give up the standard pinch Berry boost for Protective Pads. Ok, that's not so bad, if not ideal.
Then you have to choose between Sub and Endure. Sub is good at getting you to exactly 1 HP IF you aren't chipped in any way. You have to take Stealth Rock damage an even number of times or you don't get Reversal to any worthwhile power. You also have to find a turn to Sub on, which is exactly Blaze's #1 problem: it struggles to setup without taking large damage in the process.
Endure sort of fixes that issue by forcing you to exactly 1 HP and letting you set up on your opponent's attacks, but then you are reliant on your opponent's attacks to set up. And it fails to protect you from status, so para might force you to Speed Boost to +4 or even +5 before you're immune to revenge killing while possibly preventing you from using a key attack. Poison just ruins this set obviously, and as does Toxic Spikes.
So overall it's a gimmick that might catch an unwary player out. Does that deserve to be in the VR? Yes. Is that worth B+? No. That's why it's now in B. In fact, IMO when you compare it with other members of B (Hawlucha, Dragonite, Volcarona, etc) it doesn't compare favourably at all. I'd even argue it deserves B- because of how much better other wincons like the three I mentioned perform in the current metagame.

Just want to add my hot take on Zeraora, I'm not convinced it's that much better than most of C+ (which contains several other great mons that have competition issues like Gengar, Terrakion etc) and it faces competition in the "speedy hit-and-run pivot" department from both Dragapult and Tapu Koko. It's access to Knock helps I guess, but then again it's successfully competed with Pult before. I 100% don't see it higher than B-,but perhaps it's worth a raise.
 
This is amazing!

I'm not sure what would happen to :Clefable: now, will she become better or worse? It could be better due to the WishPort set being a lot better, but its usage probably would drop off a cliff due to the main thing it checks being gone.

Also, :Blaziken: might see more Viability due to its biggest competition being gone.
 
This is amazing!

I'm not sure what would happen to :Clefable: now, will she become better or worse? It could be better due to the WishPort set being a lot better, but its usage probably would drop off a cliff due to the main thing it checks being gone.

Also, :Blaziken: might see more Viability due to its biggest competition being gone.
Clef I dont really know. Darks types like bisharp and crawdaunt will rise a bit but Clef doenst check bisharp and crawdaunt crawdaunt hits Clef very hard.
U rapid strike has a water stab to hit it, blaziken a fire one si I dont know really
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

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It's too early to presume what will change with Urshifu-Single Strike gone. It was just banned, so we need to give the metagame more time now to change with its absence. For all we know, some of the Pokemon you guys mentioned like Blaziken, Clefable, Bisharp, etc. could be better or worse, or maybe they won't change in viability at all because other changes happen to keep them where they are. Who knows?

So honestly, I would highly suggest holding off on jumping the gun with speculating what Pokemon will be better/worse until we have a better idea of how the meta changes without Urshifu-S in it, let alone suggesting changes to the Viability Rankings.
 
I think that's enough early one-liners and zero-substance discussion for the time being. It's way, way too early into this new meta to make any serious claims. I suggest everyone lay low and don't make any drastic nominations for the time being. If you want to discuss specific Pokemon, the metagame discussion thread is where you should go instead.
 
It's too early to presume what will change with Urshifu-Single Strike gone. It was just banned, so we need to give the metagame more time now to change with its absence.
Ah yes, the classic sentence at the end of each suspect test.
Let me give me my prediction about that statement.

Nothing about the metagame is fundamentally changed thanks to Cinderace, Spectrier and Magearna spam being around.

Nothing.

Thanks for reading my one-liner.

The problem is those three already restrict the metagame anyways (especially Magearna). Kudos to anyone seeing how this metagame is supposed to ""change"" so much with those mons around which are much worse than Urshifu in my honest opinion, but I disgress: Urshifu got chosen as the first banned part.

I mean sure, Psychic Types like Reuniculus are going to be more common. Until you realize that it still can't do anything against Spectrier or Magearna...


Also, I am wondering if Pangoro increased in viability against defensive teams. SD Gunkshot Knock Off and CC is kinda insane. You can even run Mold Breaker vs. Quagsire. Scrappy is also appealing, until +2 Scrappy Pangoro!Ditto CC's you back.
 

viet noa

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urshifu being banned was inevitable, and although its good that scrubs like me can no longer be carried by banded wicked blow, honestly the metagame won't be *too* different.

one liners aside, i think we’re all anticipating spectrier to make a huge rise. there’s the classic choice specs/scarf set, where you click the funny ghost move, but i think calm mind/nasty plot sets with slight bulk investment is also going to be huge for spectrier. with base 100 hp and 80 spdef, it’s far from a glass cannon.

i think another notable riser is obstagoon, who’s been mildly talked about for a pretty decent amount of time. even before urshifu was banned, i believed that it had its own niche and wasn't just "a worse urshifu". obstagoon's guts ability goes amazingly with its stats and its typing ~ not only is it bulky for a base 95 speed pokémon, but the attack boost from guts is exactly what it needs in tandem with its stab knock off and facade. being able to not care about status is a blessing as well, as many pokémon like spectrier & moltres love spreading burns to cripple physical wallbreakers. if spectrier ends up being as dominant as some hype it up to becoming, then we can expect obstagoon to rise as well, since it pretty much counters spectrier in every way possible.

another thing i personally love about obstagoon is the sheer amount of versatility it has. right now on smogon, its main set is 3 attacks + switcheroo, which is completely fair. however, this pokémon gets plenty of fantastic moves. bulk up can allow it to survive more physical attacks and strike back with ridiculous power. it even has potential to be a win condition if going against slower teams. parting shot lets it pivot out of sticky situations, and lets obstagoon’s ally handle it’s switch-in much better. obstagoon has great coverage moves as well, making a 4 attacks set possible (although very niche).
 
urshifu being banned was inevitable, and although its good that scrubs like me can no longer be carried by banded wicked blow, honestly the metagame won't be *too* different.

one liners aside, i think we’re all anticipating spectrier to make a huge rise. there’s the classic choice specs/scarf set, where you click the funny ghost move, but i think calm mind/nasty plot sets with slight bulk investment is also going to be huge for spectrier. with base 100 hp and 80 spdef, it’s far from a glass cannon.

i think another notable riser is obstagoon, who’s been mildly talked about for a pretty decent amount of time. even before urshifu was banned, i believed that it had its own niche and wasn't just "a worse urshifu". obstagoon's guts ability goes amazingly with its stats and its typing ~ not only is it bulky for a base 95 speed pokémon, but the attack boost from guts is exactly what it needs in tandem with its stab knock off and facade. being able to not care about status is a blessing as well, as many pokémon like spectrier & moltres love spreading burns to cripple physical wallbreakers. if spectrier ends up being as dominant as some hype it up to becoming, then we can expect obstagoon to rise as well, since it pretty much counters spectrier in every way possible.

another thing i personally love about obstagoon is the sheer amount of versatility it has. right now on smogon, its main set is 3 attacks + switcheroo, which is completely fair. however, this pokémon gets plenty of fantastic moves. bulk up can allow it to survive more physical attacks and strike back with ridiculous power. it even has potential to be a win condition if going against slower teams. parting shot lets it pivot out of sticky situations, and lets obstagoon’s ally handle it’s switch-in much better. obstagoon has great coverage moves as well, making a 4 attacks set possible (although very niche).
I wouldn't recommend Parting Shot too much, to be honest. Obstagoon already struggles with chip damage and taking constant rocks damage when using Parting Shot just exacerbates that weakness. It's bulky enough to take one hit after coming in with rocks up a couple times but even then only barely. For example, if rocks are up, switching in 3 times with Obstagoon already causes you to take 54% damage. Obstagoon would rather just attack what's in front of it anyways, and since Buzzwole is predicted to drop to UU this is going to become a lot easier, too.
 
Scarf Goon is fun right now. It's a near perfect Spectrier counter (though normal Gutsgoon is also) and when people see you not burning they often assume you're running Defiant and try to burn you.

I briefly played around with a Banded Goon and when you manage to attract a burn / Toxic Spikes/Baneful Bunker you absolutely wreck defensive mons with Facade. Melmetal, Ferrothorn and the Ghosts are the only real switchins to the Facade, but Ferrothorn is still 2HKOd after Rocks by if it has anything less than max physical defence , and neither he nor Melmetal can take a Close Combat (Both OHKO) and no Ghost in the tier survives a Knock Off without a Colbur berry.

252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Obstagoon Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 234-276 (76.9 - 90.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Obstagoon Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 208-246 (53.8 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Obstagoon Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 331-390 (91.6 - 108%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Obstagoon Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Hippowdon: 282-333 (67.1 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Obstagoon Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 271-319 (67 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Obstagoon Facade (140 BP) vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 161-189 (38.4 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Obstagoon Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Ferrothorn: 144-169 (40.9 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
 
- Don't care about regidraco
- Heatran S Rank Disagree on the same basis I disagree S Rank Torntherian in previous gens, its main attack is shaky, 4 ground weak also gives it a terrible weakness, which brings to Heatran being prediction heavy in several matchups, I don't see it having the teambuilding "stability" the S Ranks usually have.
- It's fine to drop down Moltres, it's another fotm
- Just use Blissey or Chansey
-Yes, Rank down Latios, iirc, I already said my piece on this 'mon, it's depressing using this 'mon this gen.
- Eh, the metagame isn't doing Blaziken any favors, I could see it drop down.
- Zeraora is technically faster than Spectrier, and has good coverage+volt switch, so I can see a niche, either way, don't think that something like hatterene has a major impact in the meta than it.
- Completely disagree on Melmetal, as long as fairies like Magearna, Clefable, Fini and Lele are around, it's always going to find a way, this 'mon is everything base Metagross wanted to be, VERY strong attacking power, good coverage, bulk, Steel and no weakness to ghost/dark, like in gen 3-5 but play along.
 
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Zneon

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Cinderace -> S

I know someone already nommed this but I want to bump it, I feel Cinderace right now is either the best or 2nd best Pokemon in the tier behind Magearna right now in my opinion and its metagame influence, splashability and potency make it a class above the rest of the Pokemon in A+, I want to delve into why that is.

I want to talk about is just how hard it is to effectively punish Cinderace consistently; if there is a bad matchup that Cinderace will run into then all it really needs to do is U-turn and that's pretty much it. You can run into a Tapu Fini for example and not have Gunk Shot, doesn't matter, U-turn out of there with no consequence. That's one of the main reasons why Cinderace is such an easy Pokemon to both use and slap onto your team, you can run into a bad matchup but it will just get out of there, chip that check low enough to where it can overpower it late-game or just bring in a check to them. Pyro Ball / U-turn / High Jump Kick is really the only moves you need, Zen Headbutt / Gunk Shot / Sucker Punch / Electro Ball etc can be your late move and I don't think the pivot set will ever get bad or lose effectiveness because of how good those first 3 moves are. Cinderace is a very flexible Pokemon and is not limited whatsoever when it comes to choosing what moves it wants, it picks and chooses its checks and counters with such ease and that's amazing.

Now with how Cinderace influences the metagame, it's pretty much established that Cinderace is one of the hardest Pokemon to efficiently chip down without something like Rocky Helmet or Iron Barbs, and what have we need more of? Rocky Helmet. Urshifu-S is banned and Rocky Helmet still has not decreased in viability or usage on the Pokemon who uses it, Toxapex especially and that is mostly because of Cinderace, its such a hard Pokemon to switch into and it puts so much pressure on teams that don't have a way of adequately punish it that Rocky Helmet has been constantly seeing usage, that really does show how Cinderace centralises the metagame around it.

So yeah, Cinderace is an exceptional Pokemon and better than everything else in A+ in my eyes, and I don't even think the gap between Cinderace and Magearna is that big to warrant it not rising. Cinderace for S rank.

Other noms I agree with:

-> B+
-> B
-> B-
 
Is there a reason to keep ace in A+. That mom does eveything u need and it does it well. Very few reliable check, boots is the most common set, Banded lacks some longevity, but it hits very hard, and actully prevent pex from coming for free (ace best check)
You can try electro with life Orb and work up (it is just a fun gimmick)
But in conclusion Cinderace is S and I dont think that there are arguments against that.
 

AM

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Zneon made the good version of the nom nothing much to say. There will be more of it in action but this SPL replay that happened this morning a good example of fierce Cinderace could be.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-536429

Once the last countermeasure for Ace knocked out team feel apart. Lycan played the game how they were suppose to with Cinderace and you can see how rocks played no part due to HDB. This is the nature of Cinderace against a lot of archetypes used currently.

I agree with most of the noms mentioned above, others I'm neutral on or don't care for like Regidrago. Anything below B always irrelevant to me since they're usually not meta.
 

Ox the Fox

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Rises
:Cinderace:: A+ --> S
This mon is easily the best in the tier right now and definitely deserves to be S rank. Its standard coverage of pyro/HJK/gunk/u-turn can hit nearly the entire tier super effectively and can spam powerful u-turns on things that would be able to take a hit. It can also run options like sucker punch, court change, and zen headbutt which can be extremely useful in some matchups.

:Tornadus-Therian:: A --> A+
Tornadus-t has gotten a lot better recently with people realizing how broken NP is, assuming u hit everything, and also with the utility set that's been going around. Regen boots makes it a defogger that seemingly never dies and always annoys the opponent's team with knock + u-turn.

:Dragapult:: A- --> A
Dragapult is in a great place right now primarily due to its dragon darts hex t wave u-turn set. This set is fantastic at forcing progress onto opponent's team through status + u-turn and can often clean late game with powerful darts/hex. Infiltrator is also extremely useful right now being able to hit through spectrier and kyurem's subs.

:Hydreigon:: A- --> A
Offensive and defog hydreigon are both in a great spot right now and are extremely splashable. NP has been rising in popularity recently in order to punish teams that can only normally check the defensive variant of this mon.

:Tapu Koko:: A- --> A
The best tapu right now, koko is one of the most annoying things to switch into + a great speed control option. Thunderbolt + dazzling gleam can be hard to switch into over the course of a game especially if you rely on landot to check it, which slowly gets whittled down.

:Zeraora:: C+ --> B-
I think zeraora is extremely underutilized right now and is another great speed control option. We recently saw bea bring it in SPL and won with it after weakening Landorus-t. A lot of teams right now only rely on clefable/landorus-t to check it and both of these can be weakened fairly easily.

Falls:
:Melmetal:: A+ --> A
Melmetal is still a great mon but with all the landorus-t, cinderace, garchomp, and slowbro going around it can more of a liability to use on a team, especially when you take so much rocky/rough skin damage.

:Mandibuzz:: A --> A-
Mandibuzz is in such an awkward position right now, barely being able to check the things its supposed to check, like spectrier and rillaboom. It's also extremely prone to being knocked off and statused, leaving it easily whittled down by rocks and momentum moves.

:Tapu Fini:: A --> A-
Fini has found itself struggling in the recent metagame, not really checking any mons in particular and having issues getting past certain mons like slowking-g. It's also very easy to wear down through rocks and tends to get chipped down in a match without providing much support.

:Excadrill:: A --> A-
My reasoning for exca dropping is very similar to melmetal dropping, with landot, ace, chomper, and slowbro all making it harder to use. Rillaboom has also been on the rise recently which is awful for excadrill. It still has some niche being one of 2 rapid spinners in the tier, but it's harder to justify using it on a team when it's so easily walled.

:Moltres:: A- --> B/B-
This things pretty bad, very knock weak and status prone. It's nice for fishing for burns but asides that it has little niche.
 
RISES

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A+--> S this mon is easily S tier for a lot of reasons, the first reason is because it can beat its check quite well, gunk poison screws up slowbro, moltres and hippo, uturn does a lot to slowbro, moltres is fucked by gunk poisons and hippo has to spam slack off to even check this thing. Cinderace really only needs gunk and hjk and with uturn and high speed it can chip a lot of mons like (chomp, lando, swampert, mandibuzz, hydra). Another thing is that so many mons can't get in to cinderace, hjk hits heatran, tyranitar and if you fini or clef well you're screwed by gunk shot and u will die. Pyro hits a lot of mons for neutral damage. Sucker is really good for rain and revenge killing and dealing with dragapult. This mon is easily S tier for breaking and doing chip to put it in cinderace range, it always does work in every battle. Rank this mon in S tier right now.

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B+ --> A- Kyurem is a dangerous offensive threat in this meta, Specs with freeze dry and earth power hits everything for neutral damage and is super scary to deal with, most teams get 6-0ed by specs kyurem. Another set i have been using is the sub kyurem set which is super dangerous. Sub roost is also super good in this meta and is good at pp stalling.

Moveset: Freeze dry, Sub, ice beam, earth power
item: leftovers
evs: 56 hp, 252 special attack, 200 speed
Modest nature
Kyurem can get in on most mons like heatran, toxapex, hippo, mandibuzz, swampert, zapdos and under a sub its super hard to deal with, most mons cant switch into kyurem under a sub and you will easily win the game.

DROPS

630.png
A --> B

This mon really sucks in this meta, it fails to check spectrier and is relies on boots to much and is very prone to status and knock. It wants to be a pivoter but it also wants to spread status. But it cant do that when its forced to run 2 dark moves (knock, foul play), Its not a good defogger mainly because it cant defog much and is outclassed by other better defoggers that can do its job better. I dont get why this mon is in A rank, it really is not good in this meta.
 

BT89

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Rises

:cinderace: A+ ---> S

Cinderace has proven itself to be easily one of the single best Pokemon in the tier. It has many reliable ways to beat its checks, with Gunk Shot taking down the would-be best counters such as Slowbro and Moltres, in tandem with its great ability to chip many things. It can hit basically the entire tier super effectively, with little resisting its coverage in tandem with Libero. I would say this mon is Top 2 rn, only slightly outdone by Magearna.

:latios: B+ ---> A-

This may seem like a controversial take, but I can explain. Even though it suffers from massive 4MSS, this thing is strong. Specs and LO are both powerful, and it can run many different moves (Psyshock, Mystical Fire, Ice Beam, Draco Meteor, Surf, and even Aura Sphere). Even though this does give it 4MSS, Latios has proven itself to be an overall good and strong mon.

:kyurem: B+ ---> A-

Kyurem is a great pick due to its dangerous offensive sets that can pose a threat to much of the tier. Both its Specs and Sub sets are very good in the current meta and warrants it going higher.

:zeraora: C+ ---> B/B-

Zeraora snook under all of our noses as an underrated pick as of now. It is a great speed control option that teams usually only check with Landorus Therian and Clefable, which can be played around through chip. Not too terrible.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Drops

:melmetal: A+ ---> A

Melmetal is in a tricky spot right now. Even though it is a very strong and menacing physical attacker, there are simply too many teams that run its checks right now, mainly due to those checks being meta-prevalent threats, such as Garchomp, Cinderace, and Landorus-Therian. Also, Melmetal hates the chip it gets from all of the Stealth Rocks, Rocky Helmets, and Rough Skin going around.

:mandibuzz: A ---> B+

I have always seen Mandibuzz as an overrated Pokemon since the start of the Crown Tundra meta. It is a very status and Knock prone defogger that gets outclassed at its job by other better mons. It also wants to spread status and have 2 Dark STABs, leaving Mandibuzz in a strange, mediocre area of viability.

:moltres: A ---> B+

Moltres has been falling off ever since Pheromosa left, due to it being very Knock prone and status prone. Sure, it can check the mighty Rillaboom, but again, it hates Knock Off a lot. Overall, this bird lost its niche, mostly just due to the change the meta observed after Pheromosa's leaving.


:regidrago: C- ---> UR

Why is this thing ranked? It is outclassed by every other relevant Dragon-type, and if your opponent has a Fairy type, you are basically screwed. Even if the opposing team does not have Fairies, it folds to special walls. Basically, when every other relevant Dragon does its job better, Regidrago simply does not have a place in the current meta.
 
I wont agree with latios mainly because, its outclassed as a spec user by magearna and it struggles to break, magearna doesnt have a m4ss and latios does, latios is crippled by status and is spectrier fodder and dragapult revenge kills it. uturners like cinderace and scarf lando can kill it. Latios isnt that good and its typing means it will die to knock off and uturn which is super common. Latios can try to trick blissey but blissey really doesnt care. Latios wants to have mystical fire for ferro and magearna but it also wants aura for ttar. If u wanna use Latios just use magearna.
Wrong, psychock destroys blissey, it is faster than the ground, making latios a good check to them, also mystical fire latios checks set mag, preventing its draining kiss to do damage at all
 
Psyshock relies on to much predictions and isnt really a good move, psychic is way better to deal more damage on mons that dont resist psychic
Latios also cant switch into most of the grounds in this meta (chomp, excadrill, and lando) Hippo can toxic you. and swampert can toxic u also or just flip turn into something that can deal with it.
Latios cant even check mage, mage can live a mystical fire and kill you with fleur cannon
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Magearna: 216-256 (71.7 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ SpA Choice Specs Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 426-504 (141.5 - 167.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
First of all, I never said latios checks specs mag, I said it prevented set up mag from doing much damage of draining kiss, Phys def hippo dies to draco almost every time (93.8% of the time). Never said that latios is a switching to the ground. In conclusion it seems u misunderstood me
 
Psyshock relies on to much predictions and isnt really a good move, psychic is way better to deal more damage on mons that dont resist psychic
Latios also cant switch into most of the grounds in this meta (chomp, excadrill, and lando) Hippo can toxic you. and swampert can toxic u also or just flip turn into something that can deal with it.
Latios cant even check mage, mage can live a mystical fire and kill you with fleur cannon
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Magearna: 216-256 (71.7 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ SpA Choice Specs Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 426-504 (141.5 - 167.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
He specifically mentioned that mystical fire latios can check draining kiss magearna, and magearna can't ever switch into mystical fire unless you're running AV or scarf, as its otherwise always a 2hko
 
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