Resource SS OU DLC2 Viability Ranking Thread [SEE: Page 105, Post 2618]

More noms!

:regieleki: : B -> C+

The honeymoon with this one is pretty much done. Everyone kind of just knows how it operates and can just switch around to their local Lando-T and completely nullify it. If your primary goal fast screens I would just use Grimmsnarl. If your concern is getting them both I'd just use Aurora Veil, which is still a gimmick. I will say that Rising Voltage + Tapu Koko support is actually quite fun.

:conkeldurr: : C -> UR

Almost entirely worthless in OU. It has 1 set, being Guts+Facade, which was once so powerful it was borderline banworthy. But now there's just too much fat in the meta. It wants to punch things hard it needs to watch out for too many things. Trying to beat all of Lando-T, Corv, Rilla, Slowtwins, and Tapus isn't feasable with its immense 4MSS as is. Its gimmick sets aren't even good as gimmicks. Sheer Force, AV, Defog, Iron Fist+Band, none of it is actually any good. Guts Facade does do impressive damage when it isn't being resisted or intimidated, but those two things are happening more and more.

:grimmsnarl: : C -> C+

Put this one with the other screen users (or you can just move all the screen users down) so it's consistent for my monkey brain :p
 

Finchinator

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:grimmsnarl: : C -> C+

Put this one with the other screen users (or you can just move all the screen users down) so it's consistent for my monkey brain :p
Unfortunately, Grimmsnarl is a bit less effective and common than the other screens users, especially Tapu Koko (which resides well above Regi, Grimm, etc). Given this and the slight other niches of things like Regi, I reckon it’s best to keep it as is unless there’s an argument beyond consistency that you have to present.
 

Zneon

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Hi y'all, gonna go over my opinion over some of the current noms that strike me right out.



Dragapult to A+

This is pretty straightforward, this Pokemon is amazing. It's very valuable Speed control, its ability to conformably outspeed stuff like Hydreigon, Slowbro, and Garchomp while also acting as a great form of offensive utility due to the number of Pokemon it can cripple and check makes it a Pokemon that fits on almost any team. There's not much to say here I feel except the fact that you cannot really ever go wrong with Dragapult, move this to A+.


Rillaboom to A+

I'm much more on the fence about this one than I am with Pult, but I would have to say that I agree with this. Rillaboom is very good, its very threatening, forms many cores with stuff like Heatran, Kartana and Ferrothorn very well because of its Grassy Terrain being extremely good support and it being one of the best revenge killers in the metagame. That said, Scizor is on the rise, it's basically a full hard stop to Rillaboom, Corviknight is being spammed infinitely more with Cinderace and Magearna gone now and even outside of those, Kyurem too being a great Pokemon is big, that said I don't think that's enough to keep it away from A+ in my eyes given its very valuable traits that give it a spot on so many different teams that isn't too skewed to the defensive spectrum.


Kyurem to A

I don't really think there's much to be said here but I'm going to say stuff anyway. Kyurem is a monstrous wallbreaker, Ice is a very hard STAB to resist in the metagame I would say. Blissey has been declining for some time now and absolutely flourishes due to this, Ice Beam / Freeze-Dry / Earth Power alone hits everything in the tier for at least neutral damage and the Pokemon is pretty easy to support as well. Kyurem is amazing and its rise to A should reflect that.


Buzzwole to C

Buzzwole is bad, it's very very bad. There are some things it can do well, like counter Rillaboom and Kartana and being a very solid check to Garchomp and Landorus-T but outside of that the Pokemon it cannot really do that much. It's very passive and loses to a vast majority of the most prominent things in the metagame; VoltTurn, Future Sight, Dragapult, Tornadus-T, Zapdos, Corviknight, Clefable just to name a few. It's so hard to justify it on a team because it adds absolutely nothing that that Pokemon like Slowbro and Zapdos don't as a physical wall, hell it's more of a detriment to your team than something that can help it because it's just a complete and utter sitting duck. This thing should drop to the C ranks because of this imo.
 

AnimaticLunatic

I COULD BE BANNED!
Rillaboom to A+

I'm much more on the fence about this one than I am with Pult, but I would have to say that I agree with this. Rillaboom is very good, its very threatening, forms many cores with stuff like Heatran, Kartana and Ferrothorn very well because of its Grassy Terrain being extremely good support and it being one of the best revenge killers in the metagame. That said, Scizor is on the rise, it's basically a full hard stop to Rillaboom, Corviknight is being spammed infinitely more with Cinderace and Magearna gone now and even outside of those, Kyurem too being a great Pokemon is big, that said I don't think that's enough to keep it away from A+ in my eyes given its very valuable traits that give it a spot on so many different teams that isn't too skewed to the defensive spectrum.
May I ask, what spreads are Kyurem and scizor running? Because sure, kyurem can offensively force it out,but switching in something else. And Scizor is no check to sword dance Rillaboom. Did you mean to post something else or what?
 
May I ask, what spreads are Kyurem and scizor running? Because sure, kyurem can offensively force it out,but switching in something else. And Scizor is no check to sword dance Rillaboom. Did you mean to post something else or what?
Yes, Scizor is a very good Rillaboom check, it tanks everything from Rillaboom and does a lot of damage with U turn.
252+ Atk Scizor U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rillaboom: 272-324 (79.7 - 95%) -- guaranteed OHKO
U must know that a check against something wins in a fair and normal 1 vs 1 but can't switch in, and a counter can easily switch in into something and win. I thought you confound check and counter. I am sorry if I got that wrong.
 
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Yes, Scizor is a very good Rillaboom check, it tanks everything from Rillaboom and do a lot of damage with U turn.
252+ Atk Scizor U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rillaboom: 272-324 (79.7 - 95%) -- guaranteed OHKO
U must know that a check against something wins in a fair and normal 1 vs 1 but can't switch in, and a counter can easily switch in into something and win. I thought you confound check and counter. I am sorry if I got that wrong.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 363-428 (105.5 - 124.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

It's also never outrunning it without scarf
 
I don't think a Moltres drop is unwarranted, but I always hear comments about how bad it is as a defogger, and for me the obvious solution is to not use it to Defog. Using moves like Toxic, U-turn, Hurricane in the last slot would allow Moltres to be less of a sitting duck and pull more weight. Of course, much of the same issues remain and role compression is lost (you'd have to pick another defogger, which may synergize poorly with Moltres), which is why I still believe a drop is deserved, but the point is that it doesn't HAVE to defog and in a vacuum is better off without it.
 
Some thoughts

:dragapult:A -> S
I know this is controversial but I believe pult is one of the best Pokemon in the metagame maybe even deserving s, the amount of lack of counters makes it hard to deal with, there is the specs set, the hex set and the dragon dance set all being great in their own ways. The specs set clicks draco if there isn’t a fairy and if there is they just get chipped by sball and even fall, it has a way of pivoting too and has one of the best speed stats in the tier. The status hex pult can cripple things that rely on attack/speed and then pult can do major damage and pivot out with uturn and boosts. And finally the dd set, there’s the fire blast set and the sub set, fire blast nails things like skarmory, kartana, rillaboom and ferrothorn while sub is an amazing tool to setup your dragon dances, overall it is just a pokemon that I’d say deserves S tier. The amount of pressure it produces and the amount that can stop it without losing momentum to it pivoting is truly astounding which is why I believe it should be S

:moltres: B -> C
Moltres was vastly used during the cinderace meta but now that’s gone, moltres has seen a serious decline in usage, a bulky defogger doesn’t want to be 4x weak to rocks if it gets knocked and having the 4x weakness in general makes it inferior to pokemon like corviknight and zapdos. It doesn’t rlly check anything except rilla if it glides but if you get knocked you’re either forced to defog, try kill rilla or swap it out and essentially lose it, which isn’t reliable and just kills a pokemon. It doesnt see too much usage rn and although it has some niches its main ones have disappeared.

:regieleki: B -> B-
i believe regieleki should be B- because it’s only real use In OU is for hyper offensive screens which saw a decline in use since the cinderace and magearna bans. It has no other niches and could be considered To be even lower but with hyper offensive screens being a playstyle I don’t believe regieleki will stop getting used and having it’s main niche.

:hydreigon: A -> B+
Hydreigon has a rough time comparing to other pokemon such as pult and kyurem and it definitely doesn’t deserve A tier right now. It had a thumping amount of usage during the spectrier meta that ended almost a month ago and fails to do a better job than the likes of kyurem and dragapult, it’s main set rn is the life orb nasty plot set, which is good but not on the level of clefable, ferrothorn and dragapult which are rn also in A tier So it should’ve move to B+ imo as A- sounds a bit high for something that and it still has a good use so I don’t see it dropping to B or below.
 

Katy

Banned deucer.
:dragapult:A -> S
I know this is controversial but I believe pult is one of the best Pokemon in the metagame maybe even deserving s, the amount of lack of counters makes it hard to deal with, there is the specs set, the hex set and the dragon dance set all being great in their own ways. The specs set clicks draco if there isn’t a fairy and if there is they just get chipped by sball and even fall, it has a way of pivoting too and has one of the best speed stats in the tier. The status hex pult can cripple things that rely on attack/speed and then pult can do major damage and pivot out with uturn and boosts. And finally the dd set, there’s the fire blast set and the sub set, fire blast nails things like skarmory, kartana, rillaboom and ferrothorn while sub is an amazing tool to setup your dragon dances, overall it is just a pokemon that I’d say deserves S tier. The amount of pressure it produces and the amount that can stop it without losing momentum to it pivoting is truly astounding which is why I believe it should be S
I don't think that Dragapult is S-rank worthy, don't get me wrong but a Pokemon like Landorus-T is still miles ahead of what Dragapult can do, when we compare what roles they can compress and which roles they can execute. Dragapult is an amazing, incredible Pokemon, that is undeniable but putting it into S-rank over-exaggarates it.

Sure its sets are awesome and Choice Specs just clicks buttons, but with plenty of fairies and steels around it is kind of hard to always rely on your best STAB and it'll can drain out momentum, sure clicking Shadow Ball might help here but with great checks like Mandibuzz, Blissey and Tyranitar around it still has it a little rough to click its secondary STAB, in fact Mandibuzz is one of the best checks currently and with Pokemon like Dragapult, Rillaboom, and Hydreigon rising in popularity (the latter with having now the freedom to run more offensive sets) it will still remain as a viable check to all of them, including Dragapult. Its Hex-set is still amazing but it lacks the option to boost itself (as example: Spectrier had a better time breaking through its checks due to boosting options in Calm Mind and Nasty Plot) and Dragapult doesn't have access to any of these so it will have a tougher time breaking past its checks. Dragon Dance is a great set, but it has to chose between Fire coverage in its last slot or Substitute to get off a Dragon Dance more safe, but it still struggles with common Pokemon such as Corviknight, Heatran, Lando-T, and once again Mandibuzz to get off a sweep safely. If it does not opt for fire coverage, Corviknight and Skarmory can keep it at check more easily.

I feel Dragapult should rise to A+ but not into the S ranks as it still lacks the utility, to break past common Pokemon and with checks to Rillaboom and Hydreigon rising up they overlap with what Dragapult gets checked by, as example Mandibuzz.

Once again, don't get me wrong with Dragapult, it is an amazing Pokemon, but it is not near S-rank worthy but I can definitely see a rise for it in the future in the A+ Rank!
 
I don't think that Dragapult is S-rank worthy, don't get me wrong but a Pokemon like Landorus-T is still miles ahead of what Dragapult can do, when we compare what roles they can compress and which roles they can execute. Dragapult is an amazing, incredible Pokemon, that is undeniable but putting it into S-rank over-exaggarates it.

Sure its sets are awesome and Choice Specs just clicks buttons, but with plenty of fairies and steels around it is kind of hard to always rely on your best STAB and it'll can drain out momentum, sure clicking Shadow Ball might help here but with great checks like Mandibuzz, Blissey and Tyranitar around it still has it a little rough to click its secondary STAB, in fact Mandibuzz is one of the best checks currently and with Pokemon like Dragapult, Rillaboom, and Hydreigon rising in popularity (the latter with having now the freedom to run more offensive sets) it will still remain as a viable check to all of them, including Dragapult. Its Hex-set is still amazing but it lacks the option to boost itself (as example: Spectrier had a better time breaking through its checks due to boosting options in Calm Mind and Nasty Plot) and Dragapult doesn't have access to any of these so it will have a tougher time breaking past its checks. Dragon Dance is a great set, but it has to chose between Fire coverage in its last slot or Substitute to get off a Dragon Dance more safe, but it still struggles with common Pokemon such as Corviknight, Heatran, Lando-T, and once again Mandibuzz to get off a sweep safely. If it does not opt for fire coverage, Corviknight and Skarmory can keep it at check more easily.

I feel Dragapult should rise to A+ but not into the S ranks as it still lacks the utility, to break past common Pokemon and with checks to Rillaboom and Hydreigon rising up they overlap with what Dragapult gets checked by, as example Mandibuzz.

Once again, don't get me wrong with Dragapult, it is an amazing Pokemon, but it is not near S-rank worthy but I can definitely see a rise for it in the future in the A+ Rank!
The reason I thought it was S rank worthy was how little can 100% check it, mandi cant infinitely swap into draco meteors and if its dragon dance you fall after 2-3 boosts, it might not be lando-t level but still something I believe to be deserving of either A+ Or S, I thought S because of how little 100% it but A+ does seem reasonable as well.
 

Fusion Flare

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The reason I thought it was S rank worthy was how little can 100% check it, mandi cant infinitely swap into draco meteors and if its dragon dance you fall after 2-3 boosts, it might not be lando-t level but still something I believe to be deserving of either A+ Or S, I thought S because of how little 100% it but A+ does seem reasonable as well.
I would love nothing more than the idea that DD dragon darts can easily take on Mandibuzz. However, such a case is near impossible unless either you catch a double switch, a focus sash is used, because otherwise, it just clicks foul play and you implode. I don’t find DD pult all that impressive, honestly. Other than that, I do agree with the points brought up by the previous two posts, and I support a Dragapult rise purely because of how versatile it is.
 

spatulakun

I LOVE CHIPFLAVOUR
:weavile: C+ -> higher

Been playing a lot recently and I believe Weavile should rise. This mon is crazy. Play 10 games with it and you're lying if you tell me this should be in C+. The set I am using is choice band with icicle crash/ice shard/knock off/beat up (if your team gives you a bp of >94 or so, you can 2hko physdef corv after rocks with this. Good for breaking subs too, though low kick is probably more consistent vs like melmetal)

First, the speed tier is great - being a reliable offensive check to Torn-T is super important in a metagame where reliable defensive counterplay is limited to tapu koko, zapdos, and 70% accuracy. Ice shard is also clutch priority - being able to pick off garchomp and weakened rillaboom/dragapult is valuable since those are 3 of the most prominent offensive threats, so it's not just priority for the sake of it. Support for a pokemon like Weavile is pretty abundant, too. Future sight is great for it since several teams will have toxapex as their primary knock off absorber, and weavile's always been one of those mons that barely misses out on 2hkos vs mons like physdef clef. The abundance of pivoting moves (lets you come in safely on slowbro/king/torn/whatever) and magnezone (get rid of skarm/corv) are 2 other sources of team support that weavile uses well.

I firmly believe this mon is about as good as the stuff in B+/A-, but nominating a C-rank mon to rise multiple ranks is cringe so I'm being intentionally vague to avoid getting haha reacted.
 
I would love nothing more than the idea that DD dragon darts can easily take on Mandibuzz. However, such a case is near impossible unless either you catch a double switch, a focus sash is used, because otherwise, it just clicks foul play and you implode. I don’t find DD pult all that impressive, honestly. Other than that, I do agree with the points brought up by the previous two posts, and I support a Dragapult rise purely because of how versatile it is.
mandi Is a massive annoyance to dd pult but it is p good when there isn’t a mandi or a counter to come in a beat you with
 

Finchinator

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I’ve decided that the VR deserved a modernized approach to fit the modernized tiering system; it does not make sense to constantly lag behind metagame trends and potentially have them age out before even reflected within the OP. As such, I am making a couple of stealth updates here.

:Kyurem: to A: Kyurem has been one of the best Pokemon since the bans, thriving with Choice Specs, Sun Roost, and even DD sets. Expect consistent usage of it and an even higher peak if all else remains the same.

:Weavile: to B: A double jump for the Triple Axel user; Weavile is a fragile, but menacing thread with a strong dual STAB and an even stronger match-up against a plethora of common Pokemon. With minimal support, Weavile can take advantage of its superb speed tier to find openings and make lots of direct offensive progress.

:Reuniclus: to B: With a couple less prominent Pokemon threatening it while generating momentum to suffocate it, Reuniclus has found sufficient openings to function as a sweeper once more. It still has some shortcomings, but the upside of it alone is enough to land in B rank.

These are all effective immediately.
 
mandi Is a massive annoyance to dd pult but it is p good when there isn’t a mandi or a counter to come in a beat you with
I'd just like to point out that this really isn't a solid path of reasoning to follow when nominating a Pokemon to a higher rank. It's meaningless and doesn't actually contextualize anything around why Dragapult should rise, or any other Pokemon for that matter. We know that when there's a lack of checks and counters present to a Pokemon, that the Pokemon is going to be dangerous. This goes for absolutely anything, ranging from Dragapult to a niche wallbreaker like Keldeo; if a check or counter isn't present, the Pokemon is going to be an issue.

That said, I could certainly see Dragapult rising to A+ on the merit of its Hex set. Dragapult's Speed is very valuable right now and its Hex set is an absolutely formidable mid- to late-game wallbreaker that can quickly snowball out of control.
 

earl

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Rise to C+

I've been playing around with (Meteor Beam) Nihilego a bit recently and I think it really appreciates recent metagame trends. With Magearna being banned and Melmetal falling off, Corviknight and Heatran have cemented themselves as the top defensive Steel-types. This means that there is a real lack of Rock resists that don't also fold to Grass Knot, which makes Nihilego much more reliable. The popularity of Nasty Plot Tornadus also makes Nihilego a safer switch-in to the birdman whereas previously Superpower/Knock was a lot more common and slapped around the jellyfish. It still has its issues (hates seeing Ferro, somewhat awkward speed tier, scarf lando, excadrill still exists, etc) but I'm only nomming it to C+ here lol
 
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Martin

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I think Dragapult should be S rank honestly. I have a feeling that time will pass and it will eventually end up there despite it being the only 'mon in the game whose viability is totally unaffected by any meta trends barring the presence of Spectrier (it literally just changes one or two moves and continues to function equally as well as it did before, just like it has done at every other stage of this generation), so I’d much rather cut to the chase and put it where it belongs now instead of umming and arring about it for months when it very clearly satisfies the traits of an S rank Pokemon already. It’s just so easy to plug onto teams—just look at that juicy 22.5% 1695 usage/21.8% 1825 usagewhile being completely horrible to try and challenge between its beyond-ridiculous Speed and range of options to screw over most of its answers in a big way, and honestly, I think it’s very comparable to the likes of Landorus-T in the sense that you can fit it onto just about any structure under any archetype other than, idk, rain/sun/hard-hard stall with few (if any) drawbacks (it improves most teams if anything lol) and it is all but guaranteed to pull its weight in every game provided you don’t play like a total imbecile.

I think S is being given this exclusive club treatment even tho imo the meta in its current state has a few ‘mons that sit markedly above everything else in terms of general utility and potency. IMO S rank should look like this (alphabetical order):

:dragapult::garchomp::heatran::landorus-therian::toxapex:

I realise that this will probably be read as a hot take because I've basically just nominated half of the current A+ to S, but I think these five Pokémon are the dominant forces in the format ATM and think that S rank should reflect that. I feel less strongly about Heatran and could see arguments for it staying in A+, but I don't see any reason for the other four to not be in S rank right now.

I think the people saying Garchomp isn’t close to the level of Landorus-T are seriously underselling its capabilities. The value that its typing adds against Pokémon like Heatran makes it very easy to slap onto teams, and its really obnoxious pool of tools both offensively and defensively makes it a tricky Pokémon to play around long term. All of this is reflected in the usage stats: Garchomp appeared on 18.3% of 1695 teams last month, only surpassed by Lando, Pult, Tran, Pex, and Ferro if you ignore Cinder/Mage; Corviknight's absurdly high usage is in no small part thanks to it being one of the more consistent/pluggable responses to the bog-standard SD set, and I only expect its usage to go up next month once Mage/Cinder teams are out of the stat pool—not that this is a massive deal for Chomp, as it has the tools to bypass Corv with minimal sacrifice if it needs to. Is 18.3% close to Lando’s 38.6%? No, but I think that's largely just because Garchomp trades splashability for being a far more potent and polarising Pokémon when it is brought.

Heatran and Toxapex sit at #3 and #4 respectively in the 1695 usage stats (Toxapex appears in >26% at 1825+ Glicko, which places it at sits it at #2 behind Lando-T) and are used as much as they are because they have absurd general utility and force their opponents to take risks to be adequately punished. With Cinderace/Mage going and Slowbro/FS spam falling off a bit (it’s still there but is less prevalent and much harder to target Pex with than before), Pex has solidified itself as the indisputable top Water-type once again; you have to justify yourself very well to forgo running Toxapex on any balanced or defensive team, and it just feels like it’s markedly better/more consistent than the likes of Ferro/Clef/Torn are. Nothing of particular note has changed for Heatran so much as I think its placement needs adjusting because there’s a marked difference in power level between it and the rest of its rank, and when we’re not comparing to the absurd Cinderace/Magearna, it seems very clear to me that it satisfies all the traits I associate with an S rank.

I also have one other nomination I'd like to make for now, though I do have a few other Opinions™ to post when I have a bit more spare time/headspace:

:corviknight: --> A+: Corv is extremely strong at the moment given what it checks and how easy it is to plug (19.6% usage in 1825 stats). It’s honestly kinda criminal to put it on the same level as Slowbro and Koko in my opinion, and I'm even not completely confident that I think Clefable is strictly stronger than Corviknight in the current metagame, with the two being on about the same level IMO. It's very clear to me that people are pressed to deal with Garchomp and the other 'mons Corv can challenge defensively (but mostly Garchomp), and I think it should be ranked higher in turn.
 
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I think Dragapult should be S rank honestly. I have a feeling that time will pass and it will eventually end up there despite it being the only 'mon in the game whose viability is totally unaffected by any meta trends barring the presence of Spectrier (it literally just changes one or two moves and continues to function equally as well as it did before, just like it has done at every other stage of this generation), so I’d much rather cut to the chase and put it where it belongs now instead of umming and arring about it for months when it very clearly satisfies the traits of an S rank Pokemon already. It’s just so easy to plug onto teams—just look at that juicy 22.5% 1695 usage/21.8% 1825 usagewhile being completely horrible to try and challenge between its beyond-ridiculous Speed and range of options to screw over most of its answers in a big way, and honestly, I think it’s very comparable to the likes of Landorus-T in the sense that you can fit it onto just about any structure under any archetype other than, idk, rain/sun/hard-hard stall with few (if any) drawbacks (it improves most teams if anything lol) and it is all but guaranteed to pull its weight in every game provided you don’t play like a total imbecile.

I think S is being given this exclusive club treatment even tho imo the meta in its current state has a few ‘mons that sit markedly above everything else in terms of general utility and potency. IMO S rank should look like this (alphabetical order):

:dragapult::garchomp::heatran::landorus-therian::toxapex:

I realise that this will probably be read as a hot take because I've basically just nominated half of the current A+ to S, but I think these five Pokémon are the dominant forces in the format ATM and think that S rank should reflect that. I feel less strongly about Heatran and could see arguments for it staying in A+, but I don't see any reason for the other four to not be in S rank right now.

I think the people saying Garchomp isn’t close to the level of Landorus-T are seriously underselling its capabilities. The value that its typing adds against Pokémon like Heatran makes it very easy to slap onto teams, and its really obnoxious pool of tools both offensively and defensively makes it a tricky Pokémon to play around long term. All of this is reflected in the usage stats: Garchomp appeared on 18.3% of 1695 teams last month, only surpassed by Lando, Pult, Tran, Pex, and Ferro if you ignore Cinder/Mage; Corviknight's absurdly high usage is in no small part thanks to it being one of the more consistent/pluggable responses to the bog-standard SD set, and I only expect its usage to go up next month once Mage/Cinder teams are out of the stat pool—not that this is a massive deal for Chomp, as it has the tools to bypass Corv with minimal sacrifice if it needs to. Is 18.3% close to Lando’s 38.6%? No, but I think that's largely just because Garchomp trades splashability for being a far more potent and polarising Pokémon when it is brought.

Heatran and Toxapex sit at #3 and #4 respectively in the 1695 usage stats (Toxapex appears in >26% at 1825+ Glicko, which sits it pretty at #2 behind Lando-T) and are used as much as they are because they have absurd general utility and force their opponents to take risks to be adequately punished. With Cinderace/Mage going and Slowbro/FS spam falling off a bit (it’s still there but is less prevalent and much harder to target Pex with than before), Pex has solidified itself as the indisputable top Water-type once again; you have to justify yourself very well to forgo running Toxapex on any balanced or defensive team, and it just feels like it’s markedly better/more consistent than the likes of Ferro/Clef/Torn are. Nothing of particular note has changed for Heatran so much as I think its placement needs adjusting because there’s a marked difference in power level between it and the rest of its rank, and when we’re not comparing to the absurd Cinderace/Magearna, it seems very clear to me that it satisfies all the traits I associate with an S rank.

I also have one other nomination I'd like to make for now, though I do have a few other Opinions™ to post when I have a bit more spare time/headspace:

:corviknight: --> A+: Corv is extremely strong at the moment given what it checks and how easy it is to plug (19.6% usage in 1825 stats). It’s honestly kinda criminal to put it on the same level as Slowbro and Koko in my opinion, and I'm even not completely confident that I think Clefable is strictly stronger than Corviknight in the current metagame, with the two being on about the same level IMO. It's very clear to me that people are pressed to deal with Garchomp and the other 'mons Corv can challenge defensively (but mostly Garchomp), and I think it should be ranked higher in turn.
I would agree, with the exception of dragapult. It's frailty and (at least, from my experience) often wanting offensive power hold it back. It also does not really have the role compression ability of Lando, Heatran, or Garchomp.
 
I think Dragapult should be S rank honestly. I have a feeling that time will pass and it will eventually end up there despite it being the only 'mon in the game whose viability is totally unaffected by any meta trends barring the presence of Spectrier (it literally just changes one or two moves and continues to function equally as well as it did before, just like it has done at every other stage of this generation), so I’d much rather cut to the chase and put it where it belongs now instead of umming and arring about it for months when it very clearly satisfies the traits of an S rank Pokemon already. It’s just so easy to plug onto teams—just look at that juicy 22.5% 1695 usage/21.8% 1825 usagewhile being completely horrible to try and challenge between its beyond-ridiculous Speed and range of options to screw over most of its answers in a big way, and honestly, I think it’s very comparable to the likes of Landorus-T in the sense that you can fit it onto just about any structure under any archetype other than, idk, rain/sun/hard-hard stall with few (if any) drawbacks (it improves most teams if anything lol) and it is all but guaranteed to pull its weight in every game provided you don’t play like a total imbecile.

I think S is being given this exclusive club treatment even tho imo the meta in its current state has a few ‘mons that sit markedly above everything else in terms of general utility and potency. IMO S rank should look like this (alphabetical order):

:dragapult::garchomp::heatran::landorus-therian::toxapex:

I realise that this will probably be read as a hot take because I've basically just nominated half of the current A+ to S, but I think these five Pokémon are the dominant forces in the format ATM and think that S rank should reflect that. I feel less strongly about Heatran and could see arguments for it staying in A+, but I don't see any reason for the other four to not be in S rank right now.

I think the people saying Garchomp isn’t close to the level of Landorus-T are seriously underselling its capabilities. The value that its typing adds against Pokémon like Heatran makes it very easy to slap onto teams, and its really obnoxious pool of tools both offensively and defensively makes it a tricky Pokémon to play around long term. All of this is reflected in the usage stats: Garchomp appeared on 18.3% of 1695 teams last month, only surpassed by Lando, Pult, Tran, Pex, and Ferro if you ignore Cinder/Mage; Corviknight's absurdly high usage is in no small part thanks to it being one of the more consistent/pluggable responses to the bog-standard SD set, and I only expect its usage to go up next month once Mage/Cinder teams are out of the stat pool—not that this is a massive deal for Chomp, as it has the tools to bypass Corv with minimal sacrifice if it needs to. Is 18.3% close to Lando’s 38.6%? No, but I think that's largely just because Garchomp trades splashability for being a far more potent and polarising Pokémon when it is brought.

Heatran and Toxapex sit at #3 and #4 respectively in the 1695 usage stats (Toxapex appears in >26% at 1825+ Glicko, which sits it pretty at #2 behind Lando-T) and are used as much as they are because they have absurd general utility and force their opponents to take risks to be adequately punished. With Cinderace/Mage going and Slowbro/FS spam falling off a bit (it’s still there but is less prevalent and much harder to target Pex with than before), Pex has solidified itself as the indisputable top Water-type once again; you have to justify yourself very well to forgo running Toxapex on any balanced or defensive team, and it just feels like it’s markedly better/more consistent than the likes of Ferro/Clef/Torn are. Nothing of particular note has changed for Heatran so much as I think its placement needs adjusting because there’s a marked difference in power level between it and the rest of its rank, and when we’re not comparing to the absurd Cinderace/Magearna, it seems very clear to me that it satisfies all the traits I associate with an S rank.

I also have one other nomination I'd like to make for now, though I do have a few other Opinions™ to post when I have a bit more spare time/headspace:

:corviknight: --> A+: Corv is extremely strong at the moment given what it checks and how easy it is to plug (19.6% usage in 1825 stats). It’s honestly kinda criminal to put it on the same level as Slowbro and Koko in my opinion, and I'm even not completely confident that I think Clefable is strictly stronger than Corviknight in the current metagame, with the two being on about the same level IMO. It's very clear to me that people are pressed to deal with Garchomp and the other 'mons Corv can challenge defensively (but mostly Garchomp), and I think it should be ranked higher in turn.
Honestly I disagree with :Garchomp: :Dragapult: :Toxapex:,
Garchomp is excellent but facing a defensive Lado in every team is a pain.
Dragapult is very frail and unable to break theough threates depending on its movesets. There a way too many viable checks to it, scarfers that can revenge kill it and priority that can really hurt it.
And finally pex. This thing does ot do much honestly. I think it is a defensive mon that needs its core to do the job. It just can't stand Kyurem, Chomp, Lando, and all other offensive threats in the meta.
It can be absolutely excellent with SOME match ups on SOME teams, but it just slows down any offensive team, and that lack of flexibility lowers it to A for me (let alone S). Play :slowbro:
Sorry if that was a rant
 
I agree with the above poster's points on Toxapex. At the moment, Toxapex just feels like it has this really odd defensive profile, as if you scroll through the OU list, the main things that it walls are Pult and Torn and then you have to scroll all the way down to find the plethora of lower-tier mons that this thing walls like the BL Breakers, Scizor, and also Zapdos-Galar, who is technically OU. Most teams will have ways of dealing with many, if not all of these (Slowking + Corv + ghost resist of some sort gives sufficient play against everything except maybe blace). Toxapex kinda feels in the middle of a lot of other defensive mons right now, as in it usually only has a couple of extra targets it can wall compared to its competitors. This means that, on most non-fat teams, you'd usually be better off just switching it out for another bulky water (like one that can beat Tran) or if you already have one, then a breaker like Kyurem.

Don't get me wrong, Pex still has a huge place on fat teams, who appreciate its ability to comfortably take upwards of 80% and Knock something Off, as well as its ability to counter rarer breakers and general utility combined with defensive ability. However, much of its competitors fit better on more offensively oriented teams (offensive balance, BO) due to having their utility and defensive profile more suited to the playstyle. In general, you'd be hard pressed to say that after the bans of Pheromosa, Urshifu, Magearna, and Cinderace, that Toxapex is still at the exact same rank it was before.

:Toxapex: A+ -> A
(I would say A- but I know that's probably not going to happen.)
 
Honestly I disagree with :Garchomp: :Dragapult: :Toxapex:,
Garchomp is excellent but facing a defensive Lado in every team is a pain.
Dragapult is very frail and unable to break theough threates depending on its movesets. There a way too many viable checks to it, scarfers that can revenge kill it and priority that can really hurt it.
And finally pex. This thing does ot do much honestly. I think it is a defensive mon that needs its core to do the job. It just can't stand Kyurem, Chomp, Lando, and all other offensive threats in the meta.
It can be absolutely excellent with SOME match ups on SOME teams, but it just slows down any offensive team, and that lack of flexibility lowers it to A for me (let alone S). Play :slowbro:
Sorry if that was a rant
Thing about garchomp is that defensive counterplay outside of defensive lando is quite lacking, which means that in many matchups it can break large holes. Defensive Lando not having rocks is annoying. It can also run more bulky/mixed sets if it wants.

I agreed with Dragapult above.

Toxapex is a very much defensive mon that mainly fits on balance/defensive teams. In that role, however, it's easily the best bulky water- slowbro's been falling off and swampert wasn't ever super good considering the lack of recovery. Fini has the same issue.
Heatran and Toxapex sit at #3 and #4 respectively in the 1695 usage stats (Toxapex appears in >26% at 1825+ Glicko, which sits it pretty at #2 behind Lando-T) and are used as much as they are because they have absurd general utility and force their opponents to take risks to be adequately punished. With Cinderace/Mage going and Slowbro/FS spam falling off a bit (it’s still there but is less prevalent and much harder to target Pex with than before), Pex has solidified itself as the indisputable top Water-type once again; you have to justify yourself very well to forgo running Toxapex on any balanced or defensive team, and it just feels like it’s markedly better/more consistent than the likes of Ferro/Clef/Torn are.
 
I definitely agree with Heatran and Dragapult to S. Garchomp has potential to be S but DEFINITELY not Toxapex.

Heatran is Heatran he is the best pokemon in the metagame currently imo and definitely deserves an S tier. Does so much for the tier and on top of it grassy terrain builds + heatran are very common high ladder and are extremely annoying to wither down.

Dragapult has quickly risen to #2 usage and for good reason. Personally speaking, the only reason I'd put him S is because of the HDB Hex set. That set is extremely good at spreading status while also staying relatively healthy for a late-game clean. T-wave is amazing to just cripple half the enemy team while Will-o-Wisp not only neutralizes a lot of threats but can even make some defensive pokemon like Ferrothorn and Mandibuzz set up bait for other pokemon. You HAVE to respect his status + hex and will force a lot of switchins for an easy U-turn. The utility is just through the roof, couple that with the wallbreaking ability of Specs, and the very lethal DD set makes him quite a solid overall pokemon deserving of S tier. I think it's a matter of time we get him there.
 
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Hi! I'd like to nominate a mon I've had success with: :jirachi: --> B-/B.
Jirachi is on the rise: essentially every ban since Pheromosa has benefitted it: Urshifu, Spectrier, and Cinderace destroyed it, and Magearna was competition(though Jirachi also was a good check to it). Perhaps the "standard" set is scarf, but I think specially defensive sets have a lot of potential and have been generally unexplored this gen. Here's a set I think is pretty good:
:ss/jirachi:
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 120 SpD / 136 Spe
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Thunder Wave/U-Turn
- Wish
- Stealth Rock​
This set checks/counters strong special attackers like Tapu Lele, Tapu Koko, Kyurem, and Latios, while still having enough speed to check Rillaboom and outspeed modest Nidoking. It's not perfect, but it's still pretty bulky:

252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 120+ SpD Jirachi: 158-187 (39.1 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 120+ SpD Jirachi in Electric Terrain: 186-220 (46 - 54.4%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 120+ SpD Jirachi: 175-206 (43.3 - 50.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 120+ SpD Jirachi: 200-236 (49.5 - 58.4%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery(this is admittedly a big ouch, but Latios isn't always going to predict correctly)

However, the set isn't supposed to sit there and wall stuff. Rather, it's supposed to act as a special buffer and force choice-locked pokemon/Clefable out when they use common options(e.g. Draco Meteor/Psychic/Moonblast), and use that opportunity to spread paralysis, set up rocks, and pass wishes to teammates that lack recovery like Dragapult, Urshifu, the Rotom formes, and obviously can also use Wish for itself. This set certainly does not fit on stall teams. Rather, it fits on offensive teams looking for a glue that can switch into some attacks and offer many support options to give the team extra longevity, speed control, or hazards. It's also a great way to keep those teams alive against stall's passive damage. U-turn is an option to grab momentum and catch your opponents on the switch, but paralysis is just so helpful, even against bulky pokemon like Glowking, as, coupled with Iron Head, give some great hax odds, and also make those pokemon much more inconsistent(think barely being out of 2HKO range but then getting full para'd out of recovery).

I'll admit that Jirachi has lots of flaws: a weakness to Knock Off, Earthquake, Ghost, and Fire-type moves make its matchup against common metagame threats like Lando-T, Garchomp, Heatran, and Dragapult(though it can eat a Specs Shadow Ball comfortably and cripple with paralysis), and essentially every other physical attack out there. It also fails to do much against Ground-types in general, as they're immune to Thunder Wave and take Iron Head pretty well. (This is a reason to try Body Slam, I guess)

However, those flaws certainly do not push it into the C+ ranks, as over the course of a game it tends to do a lot more than some of the mons even in B- or even B(such as Buzzwole, Hatterene, or Swampert), and given that Scarf is still good it definitely deserves better. I think even sets like Calm Mind can be viable and have great surprise factor. Though it has low usage, this isn't really a counterpoint: tons of mons rated higher are used less.

Have a great day, and thanks for reading this somewhat chunky post!
 
Hi! I'd like to nominate a mon I've had success with: :jirachi: --> B-/B.
Jirachi is on the rise: essentially every ban since Pheromosa has benefitted it: Urshifu, Spectrier, and Cinderace destroyed it, and Magearna was competition(though Jirachi also was a good check to it). Perhaps the "standard" set is scarf, but I think specially defensive sets have a lot of potential and have been generally unexplored this gen. Here's a set I think is pretty good:
:ss/jirachi:
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 120 SpD / 136 Spe
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Thunder Wave/U-Turn
- Wish
- Stealth Rock​
This set checks/counters strong special attackers like Tapu Lele, Tapu Koko, Kyurem, and Latios, while still having enough speed to check Rillaboom and outspeed modest Nidoking. It's not perfect, but it's still pretty bulky:

252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 120+ SpD Jirachi: 158-187 (39.1 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 120+ SpD Jirachi in Electric Terrain: 186-220 (46 - 54.4%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 120+ SpD Jirachi: 175-206 (43.3 - 50.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 120+ SpD Jirachi: 200-236 (49.5 - 58.4%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery(this is admittedly a big ouch, but Latios isn't always going to predict correctly)

However, the set isn't supposed to sit there and wall stuff. Rather, it's supposed to act as a special buffer and force choice-locked pokemon/Clefable out when they use common options(e.g. Draco Meteor/Psychic/Moonblast), and use that opportunity to spread paralysis, set up rocks, and pass wishes to teammates that lack recovery like Dragapult, Urshifu, the Rotom formes, and obviously can also use Wish for itself. This set certainly does not fit on stall teams. Rather, it fits on offensive teams looking for a glue that can switch into some attacks and offer many support options to give the team extra longevity, speed control, or hazards. It's also a great way to keep those teams alive against stall's passive damage. U-turn is an option to grab momentum and catch your opponents on the switch, but paralysis is just so helpful, even against bulky pokemon like Glowking, as, coupled with Iron Head, give some great hax odds, and also make those pokemon much more inconsistent(think barely being out of 2HKO range but then getting full para'd out of recovery).

I'll admit that Jirachi has lots of flaws: a weakness to Knock Off, Earthquake, Ghost, and Fire-type moves make its matchup against common metagame threats like Lando-T, Garchomp, Heatran, and Dragapult(though it can eat a Specs Shadow Ball comfortably and cripple with paralysis), and essentially every other physical attack out there. It also fails to do much against Ground-types in general, as they're immune to Thunder Wave and take Iron Head pretty well. (This is a reason to try Body Slam, I guess)

However, those flaws certainly do not push it into the C+ ranks, as over the course of a game it tends to do a lot more than some of the mons even in B- or even B(such as Buzzwole, Hatterene, or Swampert), and given that Scarf is still good it definitely deserves better. I think even sets like Calm Mind can be viable and have great surprise factor. Though it has low usage, this isn't really a counterpoint: tons of mons rated higher are used less.

Have a great day, and thanks for reading this somewhat chunky post!
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 180 SpD / 76 Spe
Careful Nature
- U-turn / Body Slam
- Iron Head
- Wish / Healing Wish
- Protect / Stealth Rock / Body Slam

This spread ensures that Mystical Fire from LO Latios is a 3HKO, while retaining same benchmarks from Focus Blast from specs lele and kyurem. Also, it outspeeds 144 EV Lando, which is the standar defensive set. If you feel unsure about twave, you can run body slam to spread paralysis on ground types, but you miss on Dragapult though.

I support this nom too. Jirachi deserves a rise because many of the meta trends benefits it, like the rise of lele, kyurem and latios. Also being able to pass wishes or generate momentum is always great. Of course it has its flaws like being Garchomp bait, but it can risk the para from body slam as it setup a SD.
Give this mon a shot! Even if you are feeling the heat, running Future Desire is weird but it can enable a lot of wallbreakers, while still having wish, or rocks or healing wish depending on what you need.
 

Gomi

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:toxapex: keep in A+/wouldn't be against S but not rlly for it either
this mon's influence over the tier and capability to practically carry the viability of fat by itself is far too noticeable to drop just because other bulky waters who rarely, if ever, fit on the same builds are relevant. Is it an S tier god beater that is essentially impossible to safely force out or remove anymore? Nah, not really, but I definitely view it in line with other splashable, defining staples like Tran Ferro Torn, if not above some of them noticably. Switching into it still sucks, it can adapt to pester stuff like Futureport with Toxic/Bunker and Spdef Invest, and it still at least checks the majority of the tier, barring offensive grounds and Koko.
:slowbro: to A-
it might be too early to concretely state this but I believe the metagame is shifting post Ace to where Bro's defensive utility is consistently less valuable and easier to replicate then it has ever been. It really only "consistently" checks like 6 mons in S to B (Lando, Garchomp, Lucha, Melm, Exca) if you ignore lure options or common support moves the mons listed carry, such as Draco chomp in regards to the former and Tox Melm/Chomp/Lando/Exca for the latter, not to mention that it folds to heatran rather easily if its packing toxic or even EP taunt if you play decently well. Now this by itself shouldn't be the biggest deal, right? The main draw of this pokemon has been its ability to maintain momentum and keep up an advantage with Fsight+Port, but like
:slowking: to A+
We have a mon here that beats Lele, checks Latios, non TauntTox/ProTox Tran, Kyurem, Np torn, CM clef, and more while pairing beautifully with the best defogger in the tier, Physdef Corv, who checks alot of the stuff bro does better by virtue of not being toxic bait, and packs the same free momentum+wallbreaker aid. This and Corv are the backbone of like 99% of my Bulky Offenses and some Balances, it just maintains so much momentum for such a solid defensive core, way more splashable and consistent than Bro IMO, hard checking Lele alone is just so huge when the only other mon that really does it better is like Jirachi, 2nd best bulky water in the tier as far as im concerned.
:moltres: to B-
Ace leaving the tier really made this mon's existence basically soley just "thing that fogs on Heatran but fails at everything else" lmao
 
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