Resource SS OU DLC2 Viability Ranking Thread [SEE: Page 105, Post 2618]

Status
Not open for further replies.

Finchinator

Harry's House
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis a former Tournament Circuit Champion
OU & NU Leader
Regieleki has no viable sets outside of the supportive ones. Every single team has an Electric immunity and Regieleki lacks the utility, bulk, or other characteristic that justifies using it. At best, it’s C rank. At worst, it’s entirely unviable when people realize Tapu Koko is oftentimes superior as a screens setter. Until then, it’ll hang on to a sliver of viability.
 

Expulso

Morse code, if I'm talking I'm clicking
is a Social Media Contributoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
hey, been playing a bit of ss ou and figured i'd make 2 noms

lando-t: s -> a+
i often times finding myself turning to a different flying type that can better handle kartana [zap torn corv] or preferring garchomp's resistances. yea sure u can use 2 flyings but lando-t also has drawbacks when u put it on the team that make it feel less automatic than a s rank typically would. lando's splashability is still the best in the tier but i dont think this meta has an S tier pokemon.

dragapult a -> a+
is the only raise i'd consider from that rank, if u dont have 1) blissey, 2) ..... spdef gastrodon or clef, or 3) mandibuzz in march 2021 you really arent taking modest specs shadow balls well, not to mention all its other possible sets. the speed tier is so excellent, ghost moves are unbelievably free, it's versatile in what sets it can run & not too hard to support in builder; feels a+ to me

i also strongly disagree with torn-t to S. it really isnt that much better than everything else in that rank. particularly, it has a lot less defensive utility than other flying types (zap corv even mandi) and the speed tier isn't exactly premier; though it is good NP isnt winning on the spot. on top of all that u gotta hit hurricanes.

====

yes sorry @ below for not having more specifics :/ whether lando is S or not is pretty subjective. i'd def be interested in reading other people's thoughts on this, though!
 
Last edited:
lando-t: s -> a+
i often times finding myself turning to a different flying type that can better handle kartana [zap torn corv] or preferring garchomp's resistances. yea sure u can use 2 flyings but lando-t also has drawbacks when u put it on the team that make it feel less automatic than a s rank typically would. lando's splashability is still the best in the tier but i dont think this meta has an S tier pokemon.
You aren't elaborating much there. Also, Lando+Torn is a great pair since both are very splashable and form a great pivoting core, as Lando has U-Turn and Torn has Regen
 

Red Raven

I COULD BE BANNED!
It's been a while since I last posted and I just wanna say some of my new opinions

I know many have nominated :Tornadus-Therian: to S rank but I just cannot agree with that all for one simple reason, R N G. If a pokemon relies on rng to do its job, it's not gonna be consistent. From my understanding of S rank, these are supposed to be mons that are very splashable with little to no drawback. Tornadus has a massive drawback in hurricane. That one miss can make or break a game. While its utility set is arguable the best utility mon in the game whose only downside is lack of hazards. While I cannot agree with S rank, I think I can agree with at least S-. Utility Tornadus is just so useful but it's reliance on the rng is just too big a drawback imo

I also take back what I said on :Garchomp: before. It's still among the very best pokemon in the tier that can rip apart teams with sd scale shot but instead of S rank, I instead say S-, all for the same reason as Tornadus, rng dependent

There were also some talks about :Blaziken: but I just cannot agree with it rising in viability. Insane 4 moveslot syndrome, easily kills itself, and has major speed issues. It's outsped by most choice scarfers at +1 speed, meaning it absolutely wants protect and that has major opportunity costs. I think it should stay where it is as while it can work, it needs an insane amount of support

:Aegislash: is another nominated rise I can agree with. It's just so irritating to face and while it still dies to all the earthquakes, it has a lot of use with sd, specs and a near unresisted priority

Lastly, I think :Slowbro: should drop. The game is just not kind now that offensive grass types got better thanks to the bunny bans
 

Katy

Banned deucer.
lando-t: s -> a+
i often times finding myself turning to a different flying type that can better handle kartana [zap torn corv] or preferring garchomp's resistances. yea sure u can use 2 flyings but lando-t also has drawbacks when u put it on the team that make it feel less automatic than a s rank typically would. lando's splashability is still the best in the tier but i dont think this meta has an S tier pokemon.
On the topic of :landorus-therian:

I disagree with dropping Landorus-T, not only is its versatility great but also its splashability. Its best set is the defensive set which is really great in the current meta with a slower U-turn and Knock / Toxic to cripple whatever you like. It also can run Protect to scout reliably. Earthquakes from a base 145 hits really hard, even when it is uninvested. And with Zeraora and Tapu Koko and Scizor on the rise it definitely finds more and more merits on a team as a strong Ground-type to check them. Furthermore it is a good answer to SD Chomp which rises up in usage recently as well, as a lot of people appreciate Garchomps power and pseudo Dragon Dance. Also other sets of it are great, the breaking power of SD variants should not be underestimated and even supposed to be checks like Skarmory and Corviknight can struggle after it gets a boost to +2, moreover it can find itself behind a Substitute which makes it even more dangerous with items like Salac Berry which makes it a fast threat on top of it.

There are also plenty of other viable sets, although admittingly not that viable as the aforementioned, but even Choice Scarf variants can be used and still is pretty splashable on teams, where necessary speed control needs to be added and speed control is pretty mandatory in this tier with so many fast speedy threats such as Dragapult, Zeraora, and Tornadus-T. Lastly, its Suicide Lead set also has plenty of merits, if a Stealth Rocker with SD + Explosion has to be added to pressure common Defog users in the tier, as an Explosion after a +2 can threaten Corviknight with decent damage output.

In overall its splashability and versatility keeps it above most Pokemon in the tier. All of its sets have great potential and the first two sets I have talked about are the two big ones which have their merits to threaten a vast majority of the tier with either useful utility or the raw breaking power. I think Landorus-T should not drop with Zeraora, Tapu Koko, Scizor, and Hawlucha on the rise. Sure it does have its issues checking Kartana, but even Corviknight fails to check Kartana reliably especially the Swords Dance versions are able to dent through Corviknight and damaging it severely and Body Press in return doesnt even kill Kartana due to its great physical bulk.

In conclusion I think Landorus-T should stay S ranked, however I agree with a rise for Dragapult from A to A+ here.
 
I know many have nominated :Tornadus-Therian: to S rank but I just cannot agree with that all for one simple reason, R N G. If a pokemon relies on rng to do its job, it's not gonna be consistent. From my understanding of S rank, these are supposed to be mons that are very splashable with little to no drawback. Tornadus has a massive drawback in hurricane. That one miss can make or break a game. While its utility set is arguable the best utility mon in the game whose only downside is lack of hazards. While I cannot agree with S rank, I think I can agree with at least S-. Utility Tornadus is just so useful but it's reliance on the rng is just too big a drawback imo
Torn-T isn't actually that reliant on RNG in the long run. With a sturdy defensive backbone to support it and Torn's Regen, it can come in and set up over and over, so all one miss does is force it out to go again. In the long run, Torn-T will hit those Hurricanes eventually (and don't forget the net 21% chance to confuse as well), and when it does there's pretty much nothing in the tier that can stop it. Playing against Torn-T often feels like your entire team is on one massive timer until it hits its moves. And the most reliable counterplay to is to... Hope it doesn't hit every time. I fully support Torn-T to S.
 
Torn-T isn't actually that reliant on RNG in the long run. With a sturdy defensive backbone to support it and Torn's Regen, it can come in and set up over and over, so all one miss does is force it out to go again. In the long run, Torn-T will hit those Hurricanes eventually (and don't forget the net 21% chance to confuse as well), and when it does there's pretty much nothing in the tier that can stop it. Playing against Torn-T often feels like your entire team is on one massive timer until it hits its moves. And the most reliable counterplay to is to... Hope it doesn't hit every time. I fully support Torn-T to S.
Even if Tornadus-T last a lot in the long run its still RNG reliant,hoping for Hurricane to not miss every single Torn comes in isn't gonna change anything its basically a throwing a coin in the air over and over hoping for it to land in the favorable side.Relying on luck to be consistent isn't something that makes you S-Rank
 
Ok, so, these suggestions just might be pretty similar to what others had said above. But I am going to speak honestly. If you disagree with what I said, please lmk :D

Rise

:urshifu-rapid-strike: ---> B

I think :Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: has actually got some things going for it. :Slowbro:'s decrease in usage due to :Cinderace:'s ban was obvious, that is one big threat to Urshifu-RS gone, meaning Urshifu-RS can pivot around more freely (also most Slowbro's are dropping Rocky Helmet which is huge). Also, :Toxapex:, a common threat to this thing didn't drop as hard as Slowbro had, but it did decrease in usage which is also always good for Urshifu-RS. Urshifu-RS is also a very powerful force under rain.

:tapu lele: ---> A

Honestly, I feel like this should have happened before the ban, but now I almost feel like this change needs to happen. :Tapu Lele: is the best wallbreaker in the tier (imo). Very, very few things in the tier can switch in to this menace. When I am talking about Tapu Lele, I mostly mean the :choice specs: set but the :choice scarf: set makes a deadly sweeper and catches a lot of things off guard. Tapu Lele's rise was probably something all of us saw happening due to:magearna:'s ban which is pretty big for it.

:dragapult: ---> S

Lots of people have said this above, and I agree. I see this change happening very soon. The best part about :Dragapult: in my opinion is it's versatility. If you go in to :blissey: thinking it is a :choice specs: set and gets up a free Subsitute, Blissey is threatened and abused as Dragapult gets a free Dragon Dance and can start attempting to sweep. You have to play pretty safe and figure out it's set before you start throwing out a wall at this thing. In my opinion, the scariest of these sets is the DD one because it can switch moves, set up, not get forced out via stat drops etc. Dragapult is also the SECOND most used in all of OU right now which is pretty good, but is actually a lot below Landorus-T, the most used OU pokemon (draga is approximately 16.2% below it as of march 1).

:heatran: ---> S

I have read posts above trying to promote :heatran: up to S, I actually agree. Heatran is very versatile, I've seen :choice specs: Eruption sets, standard SpDef sets, I even have once ran in to a :choice scarf: one but this is very uncommon. AND, Defensive Heatran checks/counters many common things like :tapu koko:, :dragapult:, :rillaboom: (non superpower/dp sets), :volcarona:, :scizor: and that is just to name a few. Lefties Heatran is a great answer to pivot spammers as it 4x resists U-turn and counters most Volt Switch spammers. I really like using Heatran in OU and I am glad it is rising. Also, Specs Eruption Modest Heatran is one of the few Special Attackers that can 2hko Blissey so I really, really like that.

:magnezone: ---> B+

This is an uncommon suggestion, i'm sure. But I kind of feel like :magnezone: to B+ is pretty cool. Magnezone with little support can destroy stall due to Magnet Pull guaranteeing that :corviknight: is trapped and killed (because I dont think corvi runs shed shell which they probably should be doing). Magnezone's Volt Switch's deal significant damage while bringing in another team member. I also started seeing more :rillaboom:+ Magnezone cores that kind of forced me to run Shed Shell Corviknight which is kind of stupid. Magnezone does SO much for offensive teams because removing Corviknight, gaining momentum, leaving huge dents in most teams is very impressive. I'd say the only thing holding back Magnezone is it's shitty speed tier but once Magnezone kills Corviknight, whether its :garchomp: or Rillaboom, they can freely click Swords Dance/Grassy Slide and potentially sweep which is fun but infuriating to lose to this.
 
Although often relying on 70% accurate moves to be a consistent offensive threat, there's also the fact that 1- There's not much you can do to it besides hope it missed and 2- even if you miss like 8 Hurricanes in a game Torn is still a consistent mon, between general utility with Knock Off or U-Turn and being a good Rillaboom check, guaranteeing that it always puts in work each game. Saying Torn isn't S rank because it can miss is like saying the same for Cinderace before that mon got banned
 
Although often relying on 70% accurate moves to be a consistent offensive threat, there's also the fact that 1- There's not much you can do to it besides hope it missed and 2- even if you miss like 8 Hurricanes in a game Torn is still a consistent mon, between general utility with Knock Off or U-Turn and being a good Rillaboom check, guaranteeing that it always puts in work each game. Saying Torn isn't S rank because it can miss is like saying the same for Cinderace before that mon got banned
You have some good points,perhaps i should have look at Torn's efficiency at little bit deeper.Thanks for the reply
 
At worst, it’s entirely unviable when people realize Tapu Koko is oftentimes superior as a screens setter. Until then, it’ll hang on to a sliver of viability.
I would say it'll hang on for a blimey long time, considering that rapid spin is kinda nice (not the big point), and more importantly, on Rillaboom+Hawlucha screen teams, you don't want Koko fucking up terrains.
 

Martin

RIP AND TEAR
is a Live Chat Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
There is no compelling reason for Dragapult to not be S rank imo. Even if Lando-T is more common than anything else by a significant margin, I think Dragapult is the Pokemon I'd put at the #1 spot if I was asked to list out my personal top 5 or top 10 or whatever.

Dragapult is far-and-away the Pokemon I am most concerned about both when building and playing, which is very impressive because there are a lot of Pokemon that make me freeze up when building in this format. It is also one of the absolute easiest Pokemon to integrate into a team because there is no real drawback to using it; the metagame is absurdly friendly to it right now—Ghost answers are few and far between, most speed control in this format is utter shite and/or telegraphed, and Pult takes a massive dump on most common offence structures while still competently pressuring balance—and it is so versatile that you can't just blanket answer its relevant sets and expect your matchup issues to be completely solved:
  • Specs having, like, six reliable+viable multiple-time switch-ins means it can be a right dickhead if you want to use anything other than balance or stall, especially given how exploitable said responses are in practice:
    • Tyranitar shuts off Shadow Ball for a while but is kinda terrible at dealing with U-turns long-term and can only circumvent chip with Boots or Leftovers
    • Mandibuzz is always one Knock Off away from becoming a shitmon
    • Netting tempo on Blissey with U-turn makes its Teleport pivoting far less scary for the Pult player
    • Gastrodon is also shite at dealing with being down on tempo while being pretty damn passive and stops being an answer once it is poisoned by Zeraora/Heatran or whatever
    • SpD Toxapex/SpD Clefable can pretty reliably stop it spamming Shadow Ball but, like Gastrodon, stop being responses the moment you status them
  • Boots sets never take any incremental damage while being virtually impossible to directly challenge either offensively or defensively because there is nothing to stop it just spamming Thunder Wave/Wisp/U-turn until it's in a position to clean up with Hex
  • Blissey gets fucked by DD sets, which are rampant on a lot of HO teams, especially if you're playing low–mid-ladder games
  • Substitute sets without DD (namely Sub+Wisp) are uncommon but screw you over if you're using a BO that relies on speed control (namely Zera/Scarf Lele/Scarf Lando) to respond to Pult; they also stalemate Blissey and punish it for trying to use Pult as Teleport fodder
Compared to the other Pokemon that are in S/A+ rank, Dragapult is almost as easy to plug as Landorus-T (though obviously SR gives Lando that extra push over anything else), as hard to reliably challenge or wear down as Toxapex, and as terrifying to deal with defensively as Garchomp/Lele/Tornadus/Heatran. All the while, it is virtually devoid of real competitive flaws (the only other Pokemon available right now that I'd say shares this trait is Toxapex) and it arguably matches up better vs the format at large than anything else in the game. It being in A is frankly criminal, and even if you don't agree with me that it is the top 'mon in the format, you'd need to justify yourself very well to say it's not in the top 3 imo because I just don't see how you can place it any lower than that.

Often when building, I just have to accept the fact that my team can't deal with Dragapult while also covering other restrictive Pokemon and just hope that I don't run into the wrong set and get steamrolled, which ends up happening quite a lot because Dragpult is fucking everywhere. Sure, matchup is a big part of Pokemon and there are other Pokemon that have a tendency to do this—Tapu Lele, Kyurem, Heatran, and Tornadus come to mind (Pex/Chomp would too if not for the fact that a team that doesn't deal with them isn't viable anyway)—but none of them do so nearly as regularly/persistently as Dragapult does, and in my (admittedly not top-level) experience, making team alterations to introduce (even soft) counterplay to these other Pokemon compromises overall team structure/consistency on a far less consistent basis than altering teams to introduce counterplay to Pult does.
 
Last edited:

Clone

Free Gliscor
is a Tiering Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
First post in one of these threads in years....

:weavile: in B is doing it a huge disservice with how much of a threat it is right now. Banded knock offs are almost impossible to switch into when playing offense, and even fat mons take a decent chunk and hate losing their items. Boots SD is a threat too because if it gets a set up opportunity it's gonna either sweep or leave a hole or two in teams.

I think this is evident by its rise in usage in SPL and the ladder. I can say from personal experience Weavile is a threat if it comes in on a good doube or my opponent VoltTurns it in and now I have to figure out what the switch in is. It's safe to say that it needs to be a consideration when building and isn't blanket checked by too many mons in the tier like other stuff in B. This doesn't even mention its priority Ice Shard or amazing speed tier (outspeeding Torn T is awesome).

It's definitely on par with B+ mons and I'd argue some in A- as well.

So yeah :weavile: to B+/A-
 
Last edited:

Finchinator

Harry's House
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis a former Tournament Circuit Champion
OU & NU Leader
Fully echo Clone — Weavile has been surging lately. It is fast and has unmatched dual STAB, giving it a defined offensive niche that many teams have been taking advantage of. Both SD and even CB sets have been well off, finding openings with common team support and thriving due to the lack of durable switch-ins to it. It should absolutely rise to A- imo
 

Finchinator

Harry's House
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis a former Tournament Circuit Champion
OU & NU Leader
Victini should rise to b+ if volcarona is rising to b+, as there is less competition from cinderace for both of them since cinderace got quickbanned
It’s not that simple though — Fire types are far from all interchangeable. Sure, there may be minimal correlation due to team structures shuffling with the bans, but take a deeper look at it.

Volcarona has a defined niche as a special sweeper with a high ceiling and low floor, making it possible to build around complimenting it and covering the challenging match-ups. Victini is a far less rewarding pokemon at its peak, but it offers some defensive and pivoting options in return. Needless to say, neither is perfect, but we see more Volcarona and Volcarona is far more dynamic in the tier while Victini’s redeeming qualities oftentimes lead to less net positivity in practice. I’m more than ok moving Volcarona up and leaving Victini as is.
 
Makes enough sense, I do think Victini needs more exploration before b+, so for now leave it in b. Victini is far less rewarding, yes as it doesn't have setup options. But Victini is currently UUBL, so if it does rise, we may get a better sense of how good it is. I have not really played around with it too much in ou, but it may have quite a few redeeming qualities. Like being the defensive fire from gen 7 minus the z-moves. it may not be as good as gen 7 Victini, but if it has well-rounded coverage and it has the defensive heavy-duty boots merits. Tornadus is also being a lot more prevalent, maybe Victini could be B+ is what I am saying. And while it is far from the best defining metagame staple, it could definitely work on a good amount of teams, but for now yes, it should stay B, we simply do not have the usage to really get an idea of how good it is, but from my experience, it seems like Victini is on the underrated side of things in OU.
 
Last edited:

BT89

I COULD BE BANNED!
While I serve out my sentence, I’ll give some thoughts on some noms that were recently suggested.

:victini: B -> B+

Disagree
. Victini just has not been explored yet. Even though I adore him, he has no defined niche yet, which leaves him in a weird state right now. If someone can manage to define a niche for Vic, I may support B+, but as of now, I really can’t.

:weavile: B -> B+/A-

Agree.
I have made two posts on it, so I’ll just sum it up shortly. Scary offensive presence with a scary speed tier makes for a scary Pokemon.

:dragapult: A -> S

I am indifferent towards this one. I will root for Dragapult to be A+ for sure, but I don’t know about S. Like sure, it’s meta defining, but is it on the same level as Landorus-Therian and Heatran? Not sure. I have no strong opinions either way about this take. I’ll think about this one for sure. It probably is worthy of S but I want to confirm with myself.

:tornadus-therian: A+ -> S

Agree.
I feel like people overrate the fact that Torn T has a miss chance. Like sure, Hurricane misses, but so does Magma Storm. Doesn’t make the move any less amazing. Anyways, Tornadus Therian has some great utility in Knock Off, Regenerator U-Turns, and sometimes even Defog. It always poses a threat throughout a match, and will always do at least a minor thing, which leads me to believe that the Hurrimiss bird is S.

:magnezone: :urshifu-rapid-strike: B -> B+

Agree.
My original post sums up my thoughts on these two. But if you want a synopsis, Magnezone poses a great threat to the big Steel types that roam in the tier, and Urshifu Rapid Strike has become hard to switch into, and can pose a threat quick.

:tapu-lele: A- -> A

Definitely agree.
Tapu Lele is one of the most threatening wall breakers in the entire tier. Almost nothing is able to switch into its coverage and brute power, as it 6-0es many teams single handedly. This thing is nuts and should be A.

I rushed this out in the span of 30 minutes, so take this with a grain of salt.
 
feel like this mon has had a pretty big indirect effect on the meta but no one has really gone into details about it so here it is (summoning salt intro)
nomming zeraora to a or a+

:ss/zeraora:
Zeraora @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Knock Off
- Volt Switch
- Close Combat / Toxic

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-547437 - SPL Week 9 - Luthier vs Separation
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-550159 - OST Semis - TPP vs Lord_Enz
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-546746 - OST Quarters - Empo vs Analytic game 1
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-546747 - OST Quarters - Empo vs Analytic game 2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-547577 - OST Quarters - lax vs Nat

and countless more examples... these are just some prominent ones that i felt showcased zera's role in this meta well

Zeraora's uncontested speed tier (among relevant mons), access to Knock Off, and ability to pivot with Volt Switch and Heavy-Duty Boots make this Pokemon one of the best pivots in the tier. This meta's over-reliance on Ground-types without reliable recovery, and Zeraora's ability to cripple them with Knock Off and Toxic, let it become an amazing long-term form of chip damage while pivoting with hazards support. Zeraora can deal with any possible switch-in because of the versatility of its moveset - whether it's Knocking Off/Toxicing a Ground-type like Landorus-Therian, or Volt Switching on any other counterplay into a wallbreaker, Zeraora can do whatever it wants in this tier with absolutely no risk. Its role compression as an electric immunity, Tornadus-T check, and speed control makes it versatile and splashable on almost any team and frees up room for more creative and expansive teambuilding in its teammates. Most notably, its ability in Volt Absorb lets teams forgo a Ground-type, opening up more possible team structures and making the teambuilding process more creative and expansive. It also shines on momentum-based bulky offense alongside Slowking's Future Sight support to better handle Grass and Ground-type switch-ins.

The change in Zeraora's viability most likely comes from the overall decrease in physically defensive Pokemon after Cinderace's ban. Suddenly, Toxapex has shifted to a more specially bulky spread, and Tankchomp, Hippowdon, and some of the other Ground-types previously used to check Cinderace dropped in usage. This overall shift away from physical bulk helped Zeraora, who is slightly weak, become more powerful and not just something physdef Toxapex can stay in on, take 50%, and try to Scald burn.

tldr: Zeraora's unique blend of offensive and defensive utility in pivoting, cleaning, wallbreaking, chipping of checks, and revenge killing after this recent meta shift merits a rise to A on the viability rankings at least. It is often unpunishable by any common defensive checks because of its speed tier, access to Knock Off, and synergy with Volt Switch + Heavy-Duty Boots, and is almost impossible to switch into without putting yourself into a disadvantageous situation.
 

memesketch

have ourselves a good time, it's nothing at all
is a Pre-Contributor
First real post, hope this goes through alright

I feel that with mons like Zeraora, Magnezone, Kyurem, etc. back on the scene and as potent as ever, OU has been looking more and more like it did during the Isle of Armor (DLC 1) meta. I'd like to continue that trend by saying Tangrowth :tangrowth: has been a strong defensive force in the meta once again with recent shifts and is wholly deserving of A- rank.

:dp/tangrowth:

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Smart Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 235-278 (58.1 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 278-330 (68.8 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Scale Shot (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 330-395 (81.6 - 97.7%) -- approx. 2HKO
+4 252 Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 218-257 (53.9 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 181-214 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- 27.3% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 152-180 (37.6 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
+2 252+ Atk Rillaboom Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 316-372 (78.2 - 92%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (not a KO after one turn of Grassy Terrain)
+2 252+ Atk Black Glasses Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 252-297 (62.3 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 258-306 (63.8 - 75.7%) -- approx. 2HKO


252+ SpA Life Orb Garchomp Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 179-213 (44.3 - 52.7%) -- 20.7% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth in Psychic Terrain: 207-244 (51.2 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
80 SpA Slowking-Galar Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 164-194 (40.5 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
80 SpA Slowking-Galar Future Sight vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 109-130 (26.9 - 32.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 114-135 (28.2 - 33.4%) -- 95.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 344-407 (85.1 - 100.7%) -- 6.3% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 165-195 (40.8 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 156-184 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 0 SpA Volcarona Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 272-324 (67.3 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 326-386 (80.6 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


0 SpA Tangrowth Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kartana: 444-524 (171.4 - 202.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Tangrowth Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 500-592 (184.5 - 218.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Tangrowth Focus Blast vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal: 266-314 (63.4 - 74.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Rocky Helmet damage from Double Iron Bash
0 SpA Tangrowth Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 244 SpD Melmetal: 194-230 (47.2 - 55.9%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Tangrowth Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kyurem: 204-240 (52.1 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Tangrowth Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 170-200 (56.4 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Tangrowth Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Blade: 242-286 (74.6 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Tangrowth Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rillaboom: 188-222 (55.1 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
0 SpA Tangrowth Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Lele: 124-148 (44.1 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Tangrowth Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Magnezone: 256-304 (91.1 - 108.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Tangrowth Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Slowking-Galar: 174-206 (44.1 - 52.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Tangrowth Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: 266-314 (78 - 92%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Rocky Helmet damage
0 Atk Tangrowth Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Volcarona: 304-360 (81.5 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Tangrowth's physically defensive set is very effective at switching in on a variety of deadly Pokemon, including Pokemon such as Rillaboom, Kartana, and Garchomp that are highly desirable to check, and up-and-coming threats like Bisharp, Zeraora, and Urshifu-RS, as they set up or click Choice Banded attacks. Tangrowth then can do what it does best: chip the threat with Rocky Helmet and proceed to pivot to another Pokemon to take the following hit, incapacitate the opposing Pokemon with Sleep Powder or Stun Spore, or attack as necessary, since Tangrowth is unique as a defensive pivot in the wide variety of offensive Pokemon that it can damage effectively.

The Assault Vest set is known as somewhat of a novelty in this generation, but with its surprising special bulk it can serve as a strong secondary pivot to near-uncheckable special attackers such as Latios and Tapu Lele, a semi-reliable Future Sight switchin, and a stalwart pivot into the tier's Electric-types, Tapu Koko and Magnezone. It also effectively deals with the tier's two arguably most dangerous mixed attackers: Aegislash and Mixed Garchomp. Though it misses out on Sleep Powder, the Assault Vest set's ability (and necessity) to run 4 attacks allows it to damage a wider range of threats. In particular, the use of Earthquake makes this Tangrowth a far better check to the aforementioned Electric-types. It even has the ability to use Rock Slide to tank one hit from Volcarona and catch it off-guard. A novelty within a novelty, yes, but something to note nonetheless.

All in all, Tangrowth is leagues more useful now than it has been in quite a good while, as evidenced by its recent uptick in usage, due to its typing, stats, movepool, and of course the incomparable Regenerator allowing it to serve as a check to several of the best Pokemon in the meta. To top it all off, it has very good synergy with other defensive Pokemon in the tier, including Toxapex, Heatran, Corviknight, and fellow Regenerator users Slowking and Tornadus-T, that cover for its faults, such as its low Special Defense and Speed, weaknesses, and difficulty in forcing progress on some key Pokemon, most notably Corviknight. As such, Tangrowth is a Pokemon whose many merits are self-explanatory and whose weaknesses, though significant, can be shored up easily, and therefore it deserves A- rank.

TL,DR: :tangrowth: B+ -> A-
 
Last edited:
First real post, hope this goes through alright

I feel that with mons like Zeraora, Magnezone, Kyurem, etc. back on the scene and as potent as ever, OU has been looking more and more like it did during the Isle of Armor (DLC 1) meta. I'd like to continue that trend by saying *Tangrowth* :tangrowth: has been a strong defensive force in the meta once again with recent shifts and *is wholly deserving of A- rank*.

:dp/tangrowth:

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Smart Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 235-278 (58.1 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 278-330 (68.8 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Scale Shot (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 330-395 (81.6 - 97.7%) -- approx. 2HKO
+4 252 Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 218-257 (53.9 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 181-214 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- 27.3% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 152-180 (37.6 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
+2 252+ Atk Rillaboom Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 316-372 (78.2 - 92%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (not a KO after one turn of Grassy Terrain)
+2 252+ Atk Black Glasses Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 252-297 (62.3 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 258-306 (63.8 - 75.7%) -- approx. 2HKO


252+ SpA Life Orb Garchomp Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 179-213 (44.3 - 52.7%) -- 20.7% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth in Psychic Terrain: 207-244 (51.2 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
80 SpA Slowking-Galar Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 164-194 (40.5 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
80 SpA Slowking-Galar Future Sight vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 109-130 (26.9 - 32.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 114-135 (28.2 - 33.4%) -- 95.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 229-271 (56.6 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 165-195 (40.8 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 156-184 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 0 SpA Volcarona Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 248+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 272-324 (67.3 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 248+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 330-390 (81.6 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


0 SpA Tangrowth Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kartana: 444-524 (171.4 - 202.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Tangrowth Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 500-592 (184.5 - 218.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Tangrowth Focus Blast vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal: 266-314 (63.4 - 74.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Rocky Helmet damage from Double Iron Bash
0 SpA Tangrowth Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 244 SpD Melmetal: 194-230 (47.2 - 55.9%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Tangrowth Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kyurem: 204-240 (52.1 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Tangrowth Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 170-200 (56.4 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Tangrowth Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Blade: 242-286 (74.6 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Tangrowth Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rillaboom: 188-222 (55.1 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
0 SpA Tangrowth Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Lele: 124-148 (44.1 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Tangrowth Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Magnezone: 256-304 (91.1 - 108.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Tangrowth Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Slowking-Galar: 174-206 (44.1 - 52.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Tangrowth Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: 266-314 (78 - 92%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Rocky Helmet damage
0 Atk Tangrowth Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Volcarona: 304-360 (81.5 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Tangrowth's physically defensive set is very effective at switching in on a variety of deadly Pokemon, including Pokemon such as Rillaboom, Kartana, and Garchomp that are highly desirable to check, and up-and-coming threats like Bisharp, Zeraora, and Urshifu-RS, as they set up or click Choice Banded attacks. Tangrowth then can do what it does best: chip the threat with Rocky Helmet and proceed to pivot to another Pokemon to take the following hit, incapacitate the opposing Pokemon with Sleep Powder or Stun Spore, or attack as necessary, since Tangrowth is unique as a defensive pivot in the wide variety of offensive Pokemon that it can damage effectively.

The Assault Vest set is known as somewhat of a novelty in this generation, but with its surprising special bulk it can serve as a strong secondary pivot to near-uncheckable special attackers such as Latios and Tapu Lele, a semi-reliable Future Sight switchin, and a stalwart pivot into the tier's Electric-types, Tapu Koko and Magnezone. It also effectively deals with the tier's two arguably most dangerous mixed attackers: Aegislash and Mixed Garchomp. Though it misses out on Sleep Powder, the Assault Vest set's ability (and necessity) to run 4 attacks allows it to damage a wider range of threats. In particular, the use of Earthquake makes this Tangrowth a far better check to the aforementioned Electric-types. It even has the ability to use Rock Slide to tank one hit from Volcarona and catch it off-guard. A novelty within a novelty, yes, but something to note nonetheless.

All in all, Tangrowth is leagues more useful now than it has been in quite a good while, as evidenced by its recent uptick in usage, due to its typing, stats, movepool, and of course the incomparable Regenerator allowing it to serve as a check to several of the best Pokemon in the meta. To top it all off, it has very good synergy with other defensive Pokemon in the tier, including Toxapex, Heatran, Corviknight, and fellow Regenerator users Slowking and Tornadus-T, that cover for its faults, such as its low Special Defense and Speed, weaknesses, and difficulty in forcing progress on some key Pokemon, most notably Corviknight. As such, Tangrowth is a Pokemon whose many merits are self-explanatory and whose weaknesses, though significant, can be shored up easily, and therefore it deserves A- rank.

TL,DR: :tangrowth: B+ -> A-
What's even better is that sd kart dont run smart strike and sd chomp poison jab, so makes tang even better as a check
 
i disagree w the nomination of tornt to S :tornadus-therian:

Zeraora, Zapdos, Weavile, Tapu Koko usage fucks it up a lot, has to rely on hurricane to get the job done and thats gonna make it inconsistent, S ranks are supposed to be consistent w no drawbacks, while i do agree that the np set and utility set are good, this mon can be super inconsistent a lot, if you have god luck, u can use this mon. But i dont like how a lot of the mons (zeraora,koko,weavile) that outspeed it are rising in usage and it hurts tornt a lot in a game.
 
Some thoughts:

:landorus-therian: S --> A+: Strongly Disagree

No.

:dragapult: A --> A+ or S: Strongly Agree (VERY MUCH leaning towards S)

Dragapult has very quickly reestablished itself as one of the tier's premiere forms of speed control and both its Specs and its HDB Pivot sets are among the tier's most difficult-to-check threats, period. It can easily disrupt a team with status and its incredible STAB Hex, it's borderline-impossible to outpace, and its Specs set is borderline-impossible to switch in against. Pult is almost drawback-free to run (it's not flawless, though) simply because it almost always does something every single game. It's just too good to not deserve a rise, and I'd honestly go so far as to argue it should be in S.

:tornadus-therian: A+ --> S: Strongly Agree

Torn-T doesn't appreciate the trending Weavile, and the still-amazing Koko, Zeraora, and Zapdos, but I think it's just too good as a breaker to not rise. Torn-T is easily one of the most centralizing forces in the tier (though not quite as much as Landorus-T in that regard) and it serves as a valuable offensive check against many of the tier's biggest threats, many of which themselves are on the rise. It always puts in work with Knock Off, it's always hard to KO because of Regenerator and its decent bulk, and it can turn most Hurricane switchins into free momentum with U-Turn if it so desires on a more utility-centric set. It's just an all-around fantastic mon with very little opportunity cost because of how it differentiates itself from similar breakers and similar Defoggers.

:heatran: A+ --> S: Unsure

I have a much more liberal definition of an S-rank threat than what is generally used on the VR and I'd personally consider all five of Dragapult, Garchomp, Heatran, Torn-T, and Lando-T S-rank threats
. But given the current criteria for being an S-rank mon I'm not sure if Heatran deserves that title any more than Garchomp does, and Garchomp itself is a bit more contentious as an S-rank threat among many players. I do still think Pult and Torn-T are S-rank threats though, but I'm on the fence with this mon.

:slowking: A --> A+ and :slowbro: A --> A-: Strongly Agree

There's always going to be a Slow-twin this high up, and with recent metagame trends I believe Slowking has solidified itself as the better Slow-twin for now and one of the best mons in the entire metagame. Slowbro isn't bad, of course, but I think it should drop a subrank since it just isn't as good as the King right now.

:rillaboom: A --> A+: Strongly Agree

Rillaboom hasn't been this amazing since DLC1, but it is truly back with a vengeance. Both Swords Dance and Choice Band have solidified themselves as incredibly solid offensive forces in this metagame after Rillaboom's excellent performance in Week 9 of SPL (it was used six times and had a 100% winrate and put in crucial work in several games either by virtue of its own offensive pressure or by providing threats with the Grassy Terrain recovery they needed to survive crucial attacks. Rillaboom is an offensive mon, through-and-through, but it offers teams it fits on too much and is too excellent at what it does to not be an A+ rank threat. There's a good reason why so many players are quite quick to consider it a top 10 threat currently.

:weavile: B --> A-: Strongly Agree

I won't say much more at the risk of being redundant considering how many players have already talked to death about Weavile's relative excellence in this metagame, so all I'll say is that it is quickly becoming a fantastic mon and is far and away the best UUBL mon in the tier (though come next month it won't be UUBL anymore since it certainly has the usage to become a proper OU mon). It appreciates Torn-T, Garchomp, and Lando-T being top-tier threats and can deal with Dragapult nicely as well.

:zeraora: A- --> Higher: Agree (probably A?)

Zeraora is one of the best pivots in the meta and is one of a very tiny list of threats that naturally outpaces Dragapult, which it can KO with Knock Off quite easily once it's weakened. In a metagame dominated by a handful of phenomenal Ground-types this thing still finds plenty of room to throw around its excellent attacks, pivot around, and Toxic those Ground-types and thus cripple them long-term. Zeraora may be one of UU's best right now but it's pretty damn close to becoming one of OU's best (albeit not as high up on that list whatsoever) as well, and I think a rise is warranted as a result.

:tapu_lele: A- --> A: Strongly Agree

Amazing breaker. Specs is hard to switch in against and Twisted Spoon is another great set that can bluff Specs but flex Lele's amazing coverage a bit better. Specs is honestly such a good breaker right now that I firmly believe it deserves a rise.

:slowking-galar: A- --> B+: Strongly Disagree

No, no, no. This thing absolutely doesn't deserve to drop. Yes, its usage and splashability aren't what they used to be in the Magearna meta, but it's still a great, not-so-passive check to a ton of special attackers and it's a lot more free to flex its incredible movepool to blank specific threats with its AV set. I also think NP and Calm Mind (specifically NP) are unbelievably strong against defensive teams, but y'all aren't ready for that conversation yet.

:scizor: B+ --> A- or even A: Strongly Agree

Another mon that has been seeing a ton of success in SPL lately, boasting a high 26% usage and a solid 60% winrate in Week 9. It's a premiere Rillaboom check with a great defensive typing for this metagame and it's an offensive powerhouse as well. Scizor is pretty quickly catching on as a legitimate OU threat and it should rise as a result of its tournament success.

:tangrowth: B+ --> A-: Disagree

I don't believe Tangrowth is actually bad, but I don't think it's good enough in this metagame to be compared to stuff in the A-ranks and IMO it could probably even drop. It hates Torn and Tran usage being so high although neither can switch in against it and it doesn't appreciate being bricked so hard by Kyurem either.

:volcarona: B --> B+ or even A-: Agree

The Meta Moth once again benefits from some recent metagame trends and is an offensive behemoth that is pretty tough to take down all the same. I think it most certainly deserves a rise but I think even a jump to A- is reasonable enough considering how good it is nowadays.

:bisharp: B- --> B: Agree

Excellent mon that gives specific HO teams a lot of defensive utility by virtue of its good defensive typing while being an absolute bee-with-an-itch to switch in against. Defiant existing is great considering Lando-T's dominance right now, too.

:magnezone: B --> B+: Strongly Agree

Magnezone may be a shadow of its former self, but it's still fantastic at trapping a select few threats that give excellent mons like Rillaboom a hell of a lot of issues. If these threats are to rise--and they are, I would argue--then Magnezone should rise a bit as well due to its ability to support these threats unlike anything else.

:urshifu: B- --> B+: Agree

It's been seeing a decent amount of success in SPL lately and it appreciates plenty of metagame trends. It's not as good a breaker as its banned Single-Strike forme, but it's still an excellent mon right now that has more than established itself as a threat that isn't confined to niche playstyles like Rain.

:regieleki: B- --> C: Strongly Agree

Honestly, I wouldn't be opposed to this shitmon being dropped to C- or even unranked altogether. I think this mon is utter trash as a Screens setter and that Grimmsnarl and Koko are much, much better in this role. I like messing around with Specs on the ladder with some Ground-type lures like Shuca+Ice Beam Glowking, but this isn't even me trying to pretend that offensive Regieleki isn't a piece of shit that shouldn't be used on a serious team.

:blaziken: B- --> C+: Agree


Ehh... I don't think it's very good, honestly. It's a hell of a threat under the right conditions but it's generally not good outside of specific types of HO teams and is still a massive matchup-fishing mon on those HOs and can be complete dead weight quite frequently. I think anything lower than C+ is a bit of a stretch though.
 
First post here, let me know how I do. But these are a few thoughts I have:

1616647513904.png
A+->S: Not sure yet
I hate to take this stance, but I don't think this thing has been taken to its limit yet. STAB Hurricane is extremely threatening to the tier right now, and it has almost a guaranteed Knock Off and U-Turn, meaning it always makes some progress. Nasty Plot variants allow it to break with the combination of Hurricane, Focus Blast, and Heat Wave, while Pivot sets are still great at Defogging and with Regenerator it normally last throughout the match. I think the things holding it back from being S are Tapu Koko and Hurricane's accuracy. Koko has seen a major rise in usage recently, no doubt to help teams take this thing on. It resist Hurricane, has to bulk to switch in more than once, and can KO in return easily. And if Hurricane misses on the wrong turn, well that can often mean game.

1616648361963.png
A+->S/S-: Disagree
This is my all-time favorite mon, but it has a very similar problem to Tornadus-T: RNG. Yeah getting 4-5 hits on Scale Shot often means you can win the game right then and there, but getting two hits (which feels incredibly more common), often means you lose it right there too. And that's on top of one of the worst moves ever created, Stone Edge, because we all know what it's like trying to rely on that move. Add on how many teams have Lando, Corv, Clefable, and Rillaboom, its just held in check. I think A+ is the perfect placement for it, as it's clearly a metagame staple and one of the best mons in the tier with its role compression, different available sets, and sweeping and/or breaking potential, but it is far from overpowered.

1616646318458.png
A->S-: Agree
I think this is the second best mon in the tier right now. It can run a multitude of sets at the highest level. Specs is extremely difficult to switch into, even with a Mandibuzz, and Ghost STABs are so easy to spam. Heavy Duty Boots allow it to be a great pivot, and most switch-ins do not appreciate being hit with Thunder Wave or Will-O-Wisp, and after the first time they probably cannot switch back in due to Hex. Dragon Dance catches a lot of switches expecting specs and +1 Dragon Darts is extremely threatening. Zeraora, Mandibuzz, and Choice-scarfed revenge killers are just about the only thing holding it back from blowing up most builds right now.

1616646563430.png
A+->S: Disagree
Do not get me wrong, this thing is great, but often I feel it gets in its own way of being S. Magma Storms 70 accuracy makes it inconsistent and its low PP means you only get so many chances a game to trap. The prevalence of Garchomp, Landorus-T, and Nidoking means there are usually a Ground type waiting to KO it, and Slowking (without Taunt), can hit it with Scald, and get out with Teleport, wasting Magma Storms chances to trap something important and probably taking damage too. Yes, Heatran can Toxic it, but often times I find myself willing to take that trade. It also gets threatened by Urshifu-R, who I will talk about later, which I think as time goes on will see more and more usage. Getting Knocked Off by many of the things it switches into, such as Ferro, also is extremely crippling to it.

1616646876559.png
A->A+: Agree
I am not really sure why this thing wasn't A+ in the first place. Its probably my least favorite mon to go up against right now. Banded Grassy Glide is always a threat and often means your sweeper can't get more than one kill because if they don't OHKO the first mon, they take a hit and then will probably be in Glide's range because it is just so powerful. Swords Dance becomes a crazy sweeper and without a Corviknight or the rare Skarmory, you're probably going to lose too many mons trying to take this thing out for you to have a chance. Grassy Terrain also is an incredible form of support, doubling passive recovery every turn and protecting things like Heatran and Toxapex from Earthquakes, allowing them to get a hit in, recover, lay hazards, or haze.

1616647245853.png
A->A+:Agree
A large part of this is the above mentioned Rillaboom, but it's just a great physical wall in general. It can help stop Garchomp, Urshifu-R, Excadrill, Dragonite, and possibily most important, Kartana. Rocky Helmet is a perfect item for it, and Pressure can offer another win condition. It provides great team support with Defog and U-Turn, and if a team isn't expecting it, set-up sets can be extremely threatening. Body Press really helps it match-up against teams with Heatran, Melmetal, and Ferrothorn. Overall, I think it is the premier physical wall in the tier right now.

1616647750949.png
B+->A-: Agree
I think this could be the most underrated mon in the tier right now. With Multiscale and Heavy Duty Boots, coupled with its already impressive natural bulk, it can easily find an opportunity to set up. And I think people forget how powerful this thing is, as with a positive nature and DD, it hits like an absolute nuke. This things major flaw as a sweeper is its severe case of 4MSS. It often wants to run DD and Roost, limiting its the spots it wants to fit Dual Wingbeat, Outrage, Earthquake, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, and more to just 2, meaning it often is hard walled by the pokemon it chose to not cover. It is also a very capable support mon, with Defog, Roost, and Thunder Wave being great and keeping it alive while also helping a teammate make progress. Its most common set is hard-walled by Corv, the rise of Lele really threatens it, and even with a boost it is still slower than many of the offensive mons in the tier, meaning it can still be revenge killed, or at least threatened out.

1616647996385.png
B-->B+: Agree
Why is all the way down in B- lol? I have been using this thing a ton, and have found Urshifu with Protective Pads is a great mon many teams are not prepared for. Either with Bulk Up or just with 4 attacking moves, it very often forces a sack. Many players switch in mons like Ferrothorn or RH Corv or Pex to try to chip it down, only to find they took a hit and then got U-Turned out on. Water/Fighting is a good STAB combo, and Surging Strikes is a move capable of dealing massive damage and dealing with defense boosting set-up mons, or mons coming in with Intimidate, meaning it is one of the best matchups against the omnipresent Landorus-T, as it's faster than base Lando, has the bulk to take a EQ, and always KOs with Strikes. This thing is not just limited to Rain teams, and needs to be used more on bulky offense and balance builds.

1616648920128.png
C+->B-: Agree
This one will be a short reasoning, because I think it is a very limited pokemon in today's metagame, but Ice/Ground STAB+Rocks should not be overlooked. With Band or Life Orb, it can be a very powerful breaker, and STAB Ice Shard can save you against many of the common threats often seen, such as Lando, Chomp, and Pult. But Corv laughs it off and it is slow enough that most offensive mons can dunk on it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 2, Guests: 14)

Top