Resource SS OU DLC2 Viability Ranking Thread [SEE: Page 105, Post 2618]

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to B+/B: While it's not quite the Great Wall, the flaming turkey actually has a pretty decent anti-meta role when you look at the threat list. First, it's typing allows it to check or soft-check a lot of Steel types, melting through Corv, Skarm, Ferro, Scizor, Kart and utility Excadrill, while Scorching Sands allows it to reliably 2HKO Heatran even without SpA investment, and unlike Magnezone it isn't threatened too much by Magma Storm. Second, it is able to check several top tier physical attackers; Rilla straight up can't do anything to it besides Knock, Lando needs Stone Edge to hurt it significantly without KOing itself with Explosion and Flame Body allows it to punish the multi-hit moves of Dragonite, Weavile and Melmetal. The combo of Flame Body + Sands means that Moltres is generally pretty good at spreading burns, halting assault from most physical threats and chipping away at defensive mons like the Slowtwins. Third, Molt actually has the potential to check one of the meta's biggest rising threats: Volcarona. Offensive Volc has only a 10% chance to 2HKO the current Moltres set with +1 Psychic (and that is by far its best attack against Molt), and thanks to Mystical Fire Molt can ensure that Volc doesn't get 2 consecutive hits off at +1. Its ability to deny Volc set-up reliably and partially stall it with Roost allow Molt to greatly frustrate the bug, forcing it to choose between setting up or just attacking, potentially leaving it too weak or too low on HP (depends on the set) to handle Molt's teammates. With Mystical Fire and Sands to weaken foes, Defog for utility and Roost to stay healthy, Moltres has generally solid utility to offer on top of its match-ups.

Now, Moltres does admittedly have quite a few significant flaws, hence why I can't recommend it for higher than B+. It doesn't check many special attackers besides Volc, not wanting to go toe to toe with the Tapus, Pult or NP Hydreigon. While it can take a Knock Off well-enough and punish with Flame Body, it also doesn't like losing Boots for obvious reasons. It's not quite able to break other defensive mons besides Steels without SpA investment, so you need to partner Molt with a strong wallbreaker if you do use it. That said, I do think the positives it does bring to the table and its key advantageous match-ups are enough to qualify a solid anti-meta niche, hence B+/B rank.

Other Thoughts
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to A+: Strongly Agree. Rilla is easily one of the best offensive mons in the tier thanks to the stupidity of priority boosted Grassy Glide, with great utility in KnockTurn and moves like Wood Hammer and Superpower to tear through common defensive cores. Sure SkarmKnight checks it well and Ferro doesn't mind sets lacking Superpower, but otherwise Rilla is able to reliably place offensive pressure against any team; it's basically guaranteed to put in some work as long as you know what you're doing.

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to S: Agree. Pretty simple, really; hit fast, hit hard with Specs, good variety of sets.

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to B+: Agree. While it either has to contend with a Rocks weakness or only okay speed, Victini's ability to smack most common defensive mons with some move (Create, Bolt, Sands, Energy Ball), cripple them with Trick or just U-turn out gives it a solid anti-meta niche.

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to B+: Agree. In addition to checking Rillaboom beautifully, it can also be a good partner to Rillaboom, as Fighting STAB allows it to take on the non-bird Steels if Rilla can't fit Superpower or Horsepower on its set.
 
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A- to B+/B
Tapu Fini is struggling so much in the current meta, to the point where scarf its prob the best set in bulky offense teams, this mon really isnt A- imo. First of all, theres so much counterplay and so much counters/checks to this thing. Mons like Tapu Koko, Zeraora, Rillaboom, Toxapex, Ferrothorn, Nidoking, Magnezone, Slowking, Slowking-Galar, Zapdos are everywhere and they really hurt this mons viability imo. Its so easy to chip and it relies too much on leftovers, cant check any mons like dragapult since it spams sball everyday and 3hitko this thing everytime. It really struggles a lot in the current metagame, i think this mon should drop, def not worthy of being ranked where bisharp is.

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A+ to S
prob the most broken mon in the current metagame, this shit is so fucking insane, just read the posts above to see why this mon def deserves the S rank

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A- to B+
i never saw why hippo is doing in a- rank, this mon is only really used on sand teams and its outclassed by a lot of grounds like landot or garchomp since it does its role better, most of the thing it checks can just upright beat hippo, sure, its annoying but its def not a- mon imo, if this was cinderace meta maybe it would be a-, but i just dont like how hippo is doing rn, i would drop it to B imo, but i think thats a bit too harsh, since its pretty decent and better than all of the B tier mons.

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B- to C/C+
i agree that prim should rise, but i think they rose this mon to high imo, idt prim is worthy of b- since most of what it does, tapu fini can just do it better. Specs is a cool niche breaker, but struggles to break stuff like pex or slowking and relies on its coverage moves/prediction to do it.

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C+ to B
what are these titans doing in C+? these guys are legit amazing in this meta, mamoswine is a fun/cool breaker that fucks up grounds and pex, terrakion can break a lot of shit with banded and 2hitkos corv with edge, just read VtMagno post abt terrakion and why it should rise. For mamoswine tho, i think this mon deserves the rise to B bc of its niche of just being mamoswine and fucking up grounds. Sure its slow, but its got ice shard for that speed issue and having a breaker that beats grounds and pex is really fun asf. Please use mamoswine. Its ice ground coverage is unwallable and amazing anti meta pick, can be a rocker that beats lando also.

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A to A+
i know most of these people are just gonna see this zeraora post and just give a haha bc haha funny hot take post xdd, but hear me out i think zeraora should be A+, and here's why.

Zeraora being able to outspeed dragapult is fucking huge in the current meta, being able to knock off dragapult and scare it out is super fucking helpful rn, its the most fastest mon in the meta rn (not counting scarfers) Meaning its able to get in and get a hit to cripple something with knock off or toxic or volt switch out and gain momentum.
bUt ZerAoRa is WeAK, zeraora isn't meant to wallbreak or legit do any big damage at all, its a mon that guarantees chip on anything and being a cleaner. It can cripple its checks with knock off or toxic.
Its hdb set is legit so fucking good, being the fastest mon once its in it can click knock off, toxic, vott switch meaning something gets cripple or pivoted on. Since its fast asf and has hdb its super fucking hard to chip zeraora and that's what makes it so good, it has long ass longevity. Theres numerous of replays of spl, ost, stour of zeraora doing its job and winning games. Pretty splashable in Balance/Bulky Offense teams. All of these traits deserve zeraora to be A+, having the ability cripple mons/its checks, being a cleaner, getting momentum on teams, is so good, its able to do anything it wants in this tier.


Other noms i agree with
:victini: to B+
:garchomp: to S
:tangrowth: to A-
:volcarona: to A/A+
:aegislash: to B+
:rillaboom: to A+
:nidoking: to B+
 
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I think Tornadus-T should rise to s- and heres why.
Tornadus-T has been rising in usage ever magearna and cinderace ban for a coupe of reasons, first off its a nasty sweeper with the combo of nasty plot hurricane (if you hit) icy wind and heat wave, which it didn't have last gen. Mostly I think that the metagame will start to notice that this set can be extremely good (or even broken if that's enough).
Rain - this thing on rain has been consistant and even though Its a good check to rillaboom which normally can get around rain easily with magnezone. Then it also has access to weather ball (to not miss and hit zapdos without icy wind). Overall not the best but it's worth putting it here.
Balance - this thing can serve as a sweeper on balance teams and support the team mostly it's weaknesses like ice rock and electric tend to me checked by most balance teams. As a sweeper this thing normally runs hurricane and focus blast and sometimes heat wave or icy wind but mostly defog as last slot. This gets completly runned by zapdos, slowking, spdef corv, but, as we where seeing there. Seeing this thing over screens support makes it seem decent but, its better to put this thing on a team that needs that speedy sweeper and a decent defogger.
Normal - Don't get me wrong I love sweeper torn but, u turn, knock off, hurricane torn seems like the most ideal set for the metagame and here's why. First off, tornadus has a speed stat where it isn't forced to run max speed timid and can slack some speed for spdef or defense with that it can serve as a 1 time check for a lot of attacks like nidoking sludge wave, shadow ball dragapult, urshifu rapid strike, and itself. The next thing it can do with this set is remove the users items with knock off then get a taunt off or just u turn out giving you all the momentum to get in your threat, This thing also has the abillity to stop stall very easily with constant knock off chip and taunt I've recently been able to 6-0 stall with tornadus and rapid strike. Overall tornadus forces some very fast paced games that normally end with the threat killing all 6 mons that's why i think it should be s or atleast s- tier.
 
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Blissey B+ to A-


Until Dragapult gets a suspect, you're going to be seeing a lot of Blissey (ignoring that it just dies to sub physical sets). There's a lot of blob running around on non-stall builds because of how difficult it is to prep for Dragapult + other various special attackers. Teleport is useful as ever and lets you get your own Dragapult in against stuff like sub Kyurem. Blissey lacks the sheer bulk of Chansey and has a tendency to be overwhelmed by things like NP Thundurus and has a bit of 4MSS but I think the sheer prevalence of it on non-stall rn indicates it is filling a crucial glue role.

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Slowbro B+ to A
Really a face of BO and part of the most consistent BO builds. Losing out on beating Heatran (compared to King) lets it check Lando, Chomp, and Dragonite (Ice Beam > Scald imo) and UrshifuR . It's a toxic and knock off sponge and enables any breaker you want to build with. As one of the faces of futureport offense I think bro needs a raise. Insane longevity + being a team player + fuck toxapex
 
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Finchinator

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If anything should rise to "S-" it should be Dragapult, not Tornadus-Therian. And I am not saying it outright should do so, but it's clearly the most common purely offensive Pokemon, the best form of speed control, and one of the best specially offensive threats right now. Of course, Pokemon can fit this description and still be A+, which Dragapult is now, but there is at very least a good debate there. I do not think it is purely S quite yet, so this may be one of the times for a fringe tier that we resorted to a couple of times last generation.

Tornadus-Therian is fine as is. On paper, it is a few Knocks away from being an uncounterable NP sweeper, but in practice there is a ton standing in its way between inaccuracy and the abundance of Electric types seeing play right now -- Zeraora is peaking once more, Tapu Koko has been consistently good, Rotom-W is seeing a slight resurgance, Zapdos is still solid as always, and even Dracozolt Sand is present. Inaccuracy and this definitely keep it outside of the S ranks.

Garchomp is the next most likely Pokemon to rise up there, if anything. I have it as fringe A+/S- myself. The SD sets are very hard to consistently check. People are using more Fire Fang and Scale shot, which opens up plenty of doors. Suddenly Skarmory and Corviknight must be more careful and teams that focus on pressure and revenge killing are far less safe unless they have Weavile or CB Rillaboom. Perhaps this is controversial, but I can see it being considered a consensus top 3-4 Pokemon right now and it has a decent set of defensive values going alongside its offensive dominance.
 
If anything should rise to "S-" it should be Dragapult, not Tornadus-Therian. And I am not saying it outright should do so, but it's clearly the most common purely offensive Pokemon, the best form of speed control, and one of the best specially offensive threats right now. Of course, Pokemon can fit this description and still be A+, which Dragapult is now, but there is at very least a good debate there. I do not think it is purely S quite yet, so this may be one of the times for a fringe tier that we resorted to a couple of times last generation.

Tornadus-Therian is fine as is. On paper, it is a few Knocks away from being an uncounterable NP sweeper, but in practice there is a ton standing in its way between inaccuracy and the abundance of Electric types seeing play right now -- Zeraora is peaking once more, Tapu Koko has been consistently good, Rotom-W is seeing a slight resurgance, Zapdos is still solid as always, and even Dracozolt Sand is present. Inaccuracy and this definitely keep it outside of the S ranks.

Garchomp is the next most likely Pokemon to rise up there, if anything. I have it as fringe A+/S- myself. The SD sets are very hard to consistently check. People are using more Fire Fang and Scale shot, which opens up plenty of doors. Suddenly Skarmory and Corviknight must be more careful and teams that focus on pressure and revenge killing are far less safe unless they have Weavile or CB Rillaboom. Perhaps this is controversial, but I can see it being considered a consensus top 3-4 Pokemon right now and it has a decent set of defensive values going alongside its offensive dominance.
I agree with all of this, especially garchomp. It being able to break through Skarm and Corv with Fire Blast also makes it even harder to deal with.
 
First time doing one of these so bare with me.

:garchomp:: A+ to S-

I agree with the rise for Garchomp on being to S-. Garchomp has proven itself to be one of the best wallbreakers in the tier which makes it a nuisance for many teams depending on the moveset being able to heavily weaken what would be consider reliable switchins. Wide variety of move choices from Stone Edge hitting flying types, Fire Fang for the afformentioned flying steel birds, and Scale Shot letting it increase it's speed to be an amazing sweeper all that being able to pick off a weakened Landorus-T just makes Garchomp even hard to deal with. Garchomp at the same provides team some good defensive utility acting as a Electric immunity, Soft Heatran Check, and a Stealth Rock setter gives Garchomp a lot of role compressions taken care of for many teams. Garchomp has a few other sets being Tanky and Mixed Attacker being able to serve bit other purposes then just an offensive pressence mon, with it's great utility and versality as one of the best mons rn in the tier, to rise to S-.

:tapu bulu:: B to B+

Tapu Bulu has had a recent surge in usage with the Life Orb Swords Dance 3 attack set, with that set Tapu Bulu is a strong wallbreaker hard to switch into having the right tools in it's disposal. Tapu Bulu has access to Horn Leech alongside with the passive recovery making up for the health loss from Life Orb, and Close Combat is able to hit the Steel types that can switch in on Horn Leech. Using Stone Edge lets Tapu Bulu beat against the likes of Volcarona, Zapdos, Tornadus-T, and Mandibuzz while at the same time preventing it from getting statused by making contact. This allows Tapu Bulu to be a major threat for teams that have to rely on those mons that get punished by switching in on a Stone Edge where Tapu Bulu can then dent through most teams once they are removed. While being a strong wallbreaker with Tapu Bulu's typing gives a bit more utility in checking Urshifu-R, Tapu Koko, Landorus-T, and Zeraora while still maintaining itself healthy to be able in checking them with Horn Leech. Rillaboom will still be the better Grassy terrain setter with the amazing priority in Grassy Glide, and utility moves such as Knock Off and U-Turn, but at the same time Tapu Bulu has proven itself to be a formidable wallbreaker in the tier and being able to break past Rillaboom's greatest checks without having to make contact should then rise in a rank for now.



Other noms I agree with
:volcarona: to A/A+
:weavile: to A
:urshifu-rapid-strike: to A
:buzzwole: to B+
:victini: to B+
:Aegislash: to B+
 
If anything should rise to "S-" it should be Dragapult, not Tornadus-Therian. And I am not saying it outright should do so, but it's clearly the most common purely offensive Pokemon, the best form of speed control, and one of the best specially offensive threats right now. Of course, Pokemon can fit this description and still be A+, which Dragapult is now, but there is at very least a good debate there. I do not think it is purely S quite yet, so this may be one of the times for a fringe tier that we resorted to a couple of times last generation.

Tornadus-Therian is fine as is. On paper, it is a few Knocks away from being an uncounterable NP sweeper, but in practice there is a ton standing in its way between inaccuracy and the abundance of Electric types seeing play right now -- Zeraora is peaking once more, Tapu Koko has been consistently good, Rotom-W is seeing a slight resurgance, Zapdos is still solid as always, and even Dracozolt Sand is present. Inaccuracy and this definitely keep it outside of the S ranks.

Garchomp is the next most likely Pokemon to rise up there, if anything. I have it as fringe A+/S- myself. The SD sets are very hard to consistently check. People are using more Fire Fang and Scale shot, which opens up plenty of doors. Suddenly Skarmory and Corviknight must be more careful and teams that focus on pressure and revenge killing are far less safe unless they have Weavile or CB Rillaboom. Perhaps this is controversial, but I can see it being considered a consensus top 3-4 Pokemon right now and it has a decent set of defensive values going alongside its offensive dominance.
I feel like I would double down and say that Dragapult is so prominent that S- is still a little comprising to this Pokemon's true viability. Specs Dragapult is just so prominent and although the rise of dark types help, they're only offensive dark types that can maybe switch in once. Dragapult can also always take advantage of its potential switchins due to U-turn, or sometimes even being able to overwhelm them with a Specs Hex if they were status. Furthermore, the extra occasional coverage of Hydro Pump, Fire Blast, or even Thunderbolt are all valid options that help Dragapult weaken some of its checks for other Pokemon. This is not even beginning to talk about its myriad of its other sets and how extremely splashable it is. Dragapult definitely deserves an S rank

Other noms I agree with:
:garchomp: to S-
:Urshifu-rapid-strike: to A rank - This thing is really slept on and since a good amount of teams are running something Slowking + Landorus-T + Corv/Torn-T, Urshifu-RS sees a lot of free openings in some matchups.
:Volcarona: to A
:Weavile: to A
:Aegislash: to B+
:Victini: to B+
:Nidoking: to B+ - DISAGREE ----- Blissey will see more and more usage because of Dragapult, and Nidoking is a fantastic lure to Blissey and a great teammate to both Kyurem and Dragapult
:Kyurem: to A+ - This one is easy
 
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:Nidoking: to B+ - Blissey will see more and more usage because of Dragapult, and Nidoking is a fantastic lure to Blissey and a great teammate to both Kyurem and Dragapult
Why are you advocating for a drop if you think it's good?

So that this isn't a one-liner I would like to make a nomination myself

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to C+
Seismitoad is a great pokemon on rain that deserves to be higher. The fact that it is one of the two electric immunities on rain already makes it noteworthy, but what really makes it good is its role compression. It is a dangerous rain sweeper and win condition, can set up rocks, act as a backup check to stuff like fairies and steels, can remove items, spread status with toxic, and as mentioned before, is one of the few counters to the electric types that plague rain.
 
I'm genuinely surprised nobody has mentioned Heatran yet. This thing is insanely difficult to deal with if you don't have a something with Ground moves that can shake off trapping effects or poison. It's a ridiculous opponent a lot of the time, and therefore I'm implementing a suggestion of my own.

to S-
With the ability to run Magma Storm, Toxic, and other great support moves like Taunt and Stealth Rock, Heatran has taken the OU metagame by storm. Even counters like Nidoking, Garchomp and Landorous-T can get crippled by an Air Balloon blocking off their Earthquake or Earth Power and hitting them with a Toxic or Magma Storm. The additional immunity to poison granted by its Steel typing and Flash Fire absorbing moves that could damage other common picks like Ferrothorn and Kartana add on to the list of benefits Heatran possesses. It's the very definition of "defensive wall", and its immunity to most stall tactics and high resistance count make it worth bumping up on the list.
 

TailGlowVM

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Given all these proposed rises, it is only complimentary we have some drops, too:

:mandibuzz: A- to B+: Mandibuzz is falling off a lot at the moment for a couple of reasons. Firstly, Corviknight has a superior matchup against most Stealth Rock setters at the moment, such as Landorus-T, Garchomp, and Clefable, and isn't nearly as crippled by Knock Off from Rillaboom, Kartana, Bisharp, and other Pokemon. People are realising Mandibuzz is also not a perfect check to Dragapult when against the standard mixed defences set, U-turn into 2 Specs Draco Meteors KOs (while true Dragapult answers are admittedly rare, this does seem to be why Mandibuzz remains A- when drops have been nominated several times, given most other relevant Pokemon are checked better by other Flying-types.)

:swampert: B to B-: On paper, Swampert appears to offer loads to a team, but it tends to compress too much into one Pokemon, resulting in it getting worn down a lot more quickly than it would like due to its lack of reliable recovery. Additionally, numerous Grass-types are getting more common, and Heatran checks with better longevity like Slowking, Dragonite, or Hippowdon are usually preferred at the moment. A large reason to use Swampert in the past for being a Rocker with great Zapdos and Moltres matchups is not nearly as important anymore, either.

:rotom-heat: C+ to C: Rotom-H is barely used in this meta as it's mostly just outclassed by Rotom-W, which has significantly better matchups against Tornadus-T due to being able to take Knock Off much more safely, and Heatran which Rotom-W can actually wear down significantly unlike Rotom-H. Rotom-W also has a Volt Switch that is much less easy to block in this meta thanks to STAB Hydro Pump deterring Ground-types. The Grass resistance can occasionally be useful, as is checking stuff like Clefable and Tapu Koko thanks to Fire-typing, but Zapdos and Heatran also are usually more useful for these kind of roles, further reducing Rotom-H's value.
 
Based on the last few days and weeks of conversation, it seems like all of Garchomp, Heatran, and Dragapult could reasonably move to S-.

Garchomp and Dragapult are arguably the best two offensive Pokemon in the metagame, and their splashability is only rivaled or exceeded by Heatran and Nyandorus. Garchomp fulfills the eternal need for a Ground-type (though it does compete with Nyandorus in this regard), can set rocks, and has just a generally strong defensive presence even when run with a fully offensive set, while Dragapult is OU's current golden arrow.

Heatran is definitely known for its flagship trapper set (to anyone following that conversation, no trapping moves are not broken, and neither is Magnet Pull), but it can also run Choice items, aided by Eruption being freed from a Quiet nature (I know we've all been shredded by Ben Gay's TR). I've got the least experience with Heatran on the ladder, so I won't ramble on anymore, but adding an S- tier seems like it'd solve the most issues we seem to have with the top 4 Pokemon in the metagame.

No real thoughts on Tornadus-T.
 
  • :Tyranitar: from A- to B+: The weather inducing dinosaur that once ruled the land of competitive Pokemon has seen better days, now falling out of the A ranks one more during the same generation it dipped into UU at a point. Tyranitar's fall from grace has been a quiet, but sad, turn of events. This metagame is not even particularly bad for it, but it absolutely is not as kind to it as generations with Pursuit or permanent Sand being around. Tyranitar is still a strong special wall with offensive options and good utility, but it can only find its way on to so many teams.
While I can understand the reasoning for Tyranitar dropping, I still think it should remain in A-. Being able to check Dragapult, Volcarona, and Heatran (to some extent) makes Tyranitar extremely useful in the builder, especially considering how difficult they are to check otherwise. Enabling Excadrill / Dracozolt is also fantastic since it gives teams an easy-to-use win-condition and provides additional layer of protection against Dragapult / Volcarona. Its got other utility such as being a Future Sight Absorber, setting up Stealth Rock, and spreading status, which gives it some additional utility beyond just checking Volc / Dragapult.

Instead of moving Garchomp / Dragapult to S-Rank, can Landorus-T move down to A+ rank instead? I don't think it's that much better than other mons in A+. It struggles greatly setting up Stealth Rock vs Corviknight and its lack of recovery means it gets easily worn down by threats its suppose to check like Zeraora. Its speed tier is also really shaky. Compared to Garchomp, It gets outspeed and forced out by nukes like Tapu Lele, Urshifu-R, Hydreigon, Kyurem, etc, which is especially bad since these mons are difficult to safely switch into. Not saying it isn't the best mon in the tier (it probably is), but I don't think its so much better than the rest of A+ that it deserves to be in a separate tier.
 

Finchinator

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In my eyes, there is no perfect way to split up S/S-/A+ considering the top 10 Pokemon that currently comprise S and A+ rank. My personal rough tiers would be:
  • Landorus-T -- clear #1 Pokemon in viability
  • Dragapult, Garchomp -- fringe S rank and among the absolute best
  • Heatran, Slowking, Corviknight -- metagame defining top A+ presences
  • Tornadus-T, Ferrothorn, Toxapex, Clefable -- prominent archetype staples that deserve A+ status
Kyurem and RIllaboom can have fringe arguments for inclusion, but to me they feel more like A tier.

As for how to split up those 10, I still believe Landorus-T is the sole outright S Pokemon. Nothing else should accompany it in this current metagame state.

I am fine with Dragapult and Garchomp getting discussion for S- and would likely support this, but it is going to require large scale support in order to re-make the subrank. You can throw Heatran in, too, but it is more uphill than the other two for me personally.

The others should all remain right in A+ rank for the time being. They are all good enough, but not near S or S- yet and a lot will need to change to get them there.
 
While I can understand the reasoning for Tyranitar dropping, I still think it should remain in A-. Being able to check Dragapult, Volcarona, and Heatran (to some extent) makes Tyranitar extremely useful in the builder, especially considering how difficult they are to check otherwise. Enabling Excadrill / Dracozolt is also fantastic since it gives teams an easy-to-use win-condition and provides additional layer of protection against Dragapult / Volcarona. Its got other utility such as being a Future Sight Absorber, setting up Stealth Rock, and spreading status, which gives it some additional utility beyond just checking Volc / Dragapult.

Instead of moving Garchomp / Dragapult to S-Rank, can Landorus-T move down to A+ rank instead? I don't think it's that much better than other mons in A+. It struggles greatly setting up Stealth Rock vs Corviknight and its lack of recovery means it gets easily worn down by threats its suppose to check like Zeraora. Its speed tier is also really shaky. Compared to Garchomp, It gets outspeed and forced out by nukes like Tapu Lele, Urshifu-R, Hydreigon, Kyurem, etc, which is especially bad since these mons are difficult to safely switch into. Not saying it isn't the best mon in the tier (it probably is), but I don't think its so much better than the rest of A+ that it deserves to be in a separate tier.
Just bc landot struggles to get up rocks vs corv, doesn’t mean it should drop, landot is S rank bc of it’s splashability and it’s versatility in its set. Landot is a incredible pokemon that def doesn’t deserve the drop.
 
Time to pick on C- mons whos niches I can't understand. Feel free to explain the niche to me, I usually agree with anyone who can justify a niche. I just can't for any of these pokemon, and calling mons with a near 0% userate in tour seems a bit disingenuous. Like kings rock excadrill might see more play than these pokes in tour lol.


Incineroar's inclusion on the VR seems like a relic of the days Spectrier was allowed. Dark fire typing is unique, but it doesn't bring anything useful to the offensive pivot role anymore.

Mantine was really popular like 4 metas ago. Its now just a generic bulky water that no longer gets a distinguishing factor via either defog or water immunity. It admittedly still is a bulky water that resists fighting without being weak to ghost or dark, but besides pult whos really using ghost stab? Not to mention this mon is probably more knock prone than the twins due to reliance on boots. This one seems hard to justify.

We know why Shedinja is on here. You can build a stall team to work with no other 6th beside shedinja, but that team will be so bad because stall already gives your opponent many turns to break your team and shedinja dies if one thing does not go perfectly for it. This thing is irreplaceable on the teams its on and therefore always technically 'viable', but the teams people build and put shedinja on are legitimately terrible.

Last time i wrote about Slowbro-Galar its niche was justified as quick claw quick draw rng. I'm guessing thats still the reason its on the vr. I didn't like that justification then and I like it even less now that nobody brings it to tour anymore.

Just use Thundurus-t or alternatively any good electric type. This is the mon in C- whos potential niche I understand the least. I've tried to make TT work please someone tell me how to use it ;-;

I am the #1 Weezing-Galar fan. I used it during urshifu meta and it was barely usable then. Outside of urshifu-s this mon was very subpar, so I think this too is a relic of an older metagame.

Nomming all of the above to UR
 
Mantine was really popular like 4 metas ago. Its now just a generic bulky water that no longer gets a distinguishing factor via either defog or water immunity. It admittedly still is a bulky water that resists fighting without being weak to ghost or dark, but besides pult whos really using ghost stab? Not to mention this mon is probably more knock prone than the twins due to reliance on boots. This one seems hard to justify.
I agree with the rest of your noms, but Mantine's ability to be one of the only consistent checks for Volcarona justifies it being ranked at C- imo. There's barely any other mons in the tier that can consistently check it and the general sentiment around Volc is that it is one of the most difficult mons in the tier to account for right now. Of course it's not splashable compared to slows or pex, but that's what we have C- for and its niche is definitely unique within the metagame.
 
Mantine was really popular like 4 metas ago. Its now just a generic bulky water that no longer gets a distinguishing factor via either defog or water immunity. It admittedly still is a bulky water that resists fighting without being weak to ghost or dark, but besides pult whos really using ghost stab? Not to mention this mon is probably more knock prone than the twins due to reliance on boots. This one seems hard to justify.
I've messed around with Mantine a bit and this is the mon that you say should be UR in which I disagree the most. The ability to check Volcarona and Urshifu-RS while also being able to Defog warrants it at the very least a placement in C-.

Just use Thundurus-t or alternatively any good electric type. This is the mon in C- whos potential niche I understand the least. I've tried to make TT work please someone tell me how to use it ;-;
I really doubt this is the reason it's ranked but I've used it as a Defiant user with relative success. It's more consistent at beating some defoggers like Corviknight and Zapdos and unlike Bisharp or G-Zap there's a good chance they defog straight away without expecting to give you a +2 in attack thanks to how unexpected Defiant Thundy is. Also a threat on its own right thanks to its good speed tier and access to Bulk Up. Don't think it should be unranked either.

Also disagree with Slowbro-G being Unranked but there's not much to say about it besides Quick Claw + Quick Draw. Agree with everything else.
 
Last time i wrote about Slowbro-Galar its niche was justified as quick claw quick draw rng. I'm guessing thats still the reason its on the vr. I didn't like that justification then and I like it even less now that nobody brings it to tour anymore.
Quick Draw Quick Claw with nasty plot or belly drum can easily turn games over it has like a 40% chance to move first every time and it could just sweep if it gets them correctly
 
Hello everyone! I hope your having a great day :blobthumbsup:
I would like to share my thoughts on some mons:
:thundurus-therian:, :latias:, :gengar:C+ —> B-
In my opinion, these mons absolutely do not deserve being in C+. They are phenomenal and powerful special attackers when used well.
• Thundurus-T is great in rain; it provides great utility in rain teams due to having Volt Absorb and its Thunder + Weather Ball + Focus Blast combination that hit everything in the tier with either neutral or super-effective damage. Thundurus-T can easily force out Slowking with the use of Thunder (although it is fun to catch the ground type on the switch-in with weather ball in the rain).
• Latias’ very good bulk and CM + Agility/Roost + Stored Power + Aura Sphere combo allow it to be a devastating sweeper who can deal massive damage, especially under dual screens.
• Gengar has been and still is a great mon to use. Gengar’s great speed tier and access to Nasty Plot and great coverage moves make it a force to be reckoned with. Its preferred dual STAB combination, Shadow Ball and Sludge Wave is hard to wall. Like Thundurus-T, Gengar also forces Slowking out with Shadow Ball (just make sure you don’t get hit by Future Sight).

:keldeo:C —> C+
• Keldeo is definitely a underrated, but with its Sub CM set, it can turn the tide (get it?) of the battle around. It’s a great late-game sweeper, where Slowking is hopefully gone.


Other noms I hard agree with:
:volcarona: to A/A+
:weavile: to A
:urshifu-rapid-strike: to A
:buzzwole: to B+
:victini: to B+
:Aegislash: to B+
:mandibuzz: to B+
:swampert: to B-
:rotom-heat: to C
:heatran: to S-
:Dragapult: to S-/S
 
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-- S- / S

Heatran is almost unwallable when paired with Magma Storm + Taunt + Toxic. It also checks the tiers most prominent threats in Tapu Koko, Dragapult, and Volcarona which makes it very good offensively and defensively. Offensively, Heatran can ruin many of its switch ins namely Slowking, Dragonite (which sometimes carries heal bell but eh), Hydreigon, Garchomp, Swampert, and Gastrodon. Its has access to Taunt which lets it 1v1 Blissey. Its also even got Stealth Rock which isn't really seen that much as Taunt + Toxic lets it wear down its checks. Heatran can even run a Choice Specs (which is a bit of a gimmick) for more damage but losing out on the passive recovery is not ideal. Heatran being viable on so many archetypes and having a plethora of sets makes it even scarier to deal with. However, Heatran has its downsides as it does have its fair share of checks like Tapu Fini (which gets worn down quick from rocks + magma storms), Slowking (poisoned), and Slowking-G which many teams are now using. Heatran does not have hard recovery and it's neutrality to Stealth Rock is will wear it down pretty quick. I'd say this is what might hold it back to the S- tier which is reasonable.

-- S

It's blistering speed tier, access to U-turn, amazing STAB moves in Draco Meteor and Shadow Ball, and amazing coverage options allows it to be one of the best (if not, THE best) offensive Pokemon in the tier. It has many sets namely Sub Dragon Dance, Choice Specs, Heavy-Duty Boots, Sub Disable, and Choice Scarf which makes it very hard to switch in. Dragapult usually carries Will-O-Wisp or Thunder Wave so most of its switch ins get crippled by status' (shut up Blissey). It also doesn't have too many switch ins. Blissey is commonly known as the best Dragapult switch in but Sub DD sets use it as set up fodder. Mandibuzz can easily get knocked, so it keeps talking Stealth Rock chip. Corviknight can switch in, but it really hates getting burned / paralyzed, it also doesn't take Fire Blast that well. In my eyes (and alot of other people's), Dragapult is the best offensive Pokemon in the tier as of now and I honestly would really like to see it reach the S tier.

Agree

-- B
-- B
-- A
-- A
-- B+

-- A+
-- A
 
rises

supporting a+ to s

for multiple occassions has dragapult wrapped the tier around its head, the major scarcity of ghost resists in the tier is an attribute that it consistently feeds off of to skyrocket in viability after the departure of other banned offensive pokemon such as spectrier and magearna. it is also one of the best offensive pivots in the metagame and dragapult can fit many crucial offensive roles. in the builder dragapult is the biggest threat taken into consideration painting a picture of how dangerous it truly is.

a- to a

bisharp is one of the offensive wallbreakers that got a lot more breathing room thanks to the bans. in the past, it had a very stagnant relevance in the ou meta due to the sheer amount of offensive counterplay available, only being usable at certain points and needing heavier team support. however, it has shrugged that off after the same offensive pokemon (in the pult nom) left the tier. it's best set is 4 atks cb which is fantastically synergistic with slowking's future sight support. if unprepared in the builder or lead matchup it can be an oppressive threat to an unprepared player. beat up dissuades contact damage completely and further allows you to make your team customizable with 2 dark stabs + iron head. bisharp is incredibly difficult to switch into and the metagame has been a lot softer to it

b to b+

extremely underrated offensive breaker. advised b to b+ because of it being so slow which is one of the traits that makes it passive IMO, aqua jet priority and ability to beat nearly all of its defensive checks. only has two viable sets and doesnt fantastically fill any roles defensively due to how slow and frail it is but high risk => high reward factor is a huge benefit.

drops

b to c+

i personally have a completely different view on buzz i feel like its so weird that its ranked so high with the other mons. while providing less defensive utility than what walls are currently relevant in the meta it can be offered a teamslot to compress the role of checking multiple dangerous pokemon such as kartana, bisharp, weavile, and rillaboom.
 

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