Resource SS OU DLC2 Viability Ranking Thread [SEE: Page 105, Post 2618]

Katy

Banned deucer.
Rises:
:mamoswine: While I agree Mamoswine should rise a subrank, I don't feel there are strong enough arguments to make it directly into the B ranks where the relatively stronger Pokemon of the metagame are. I feel C+ to B- for now should be enough. But in defense of Mamosine, it has unresisted STAB in ground and Ice, and with Oblivious it can be a great lead to set up Stealth Rocks. I recently played a bit with 4 Attacks Mamoswine and Life Orb and Thick Fat, which also turned out to be a threat to most teams and paired with Magnezones ID + BP + Thunderbolt set it has no trouble breaking past most threats once Corviknight, Skarmory, and also Ferrothorn are removed. Also Ice Shard works in its favor to help against faster threats such as Dragapult, Landorus-T, and Garchomp, to neutralize them when they proceed a setup by forcing them out.

:terrakion: Same as Mamoswine, one subrank should do it for now. Rock- and Fighting-type STAB options are enormously threatening in the current meta, with coverage to lure in Pokemon, which can tank its moves relatively easily, Megahorn can do the trick against Tangrowth and Slowbro and even Earthquake can be a legitimate choice. I think Terrakion to B- is justified, but not higher.

:weavile: oh boy oh boy, this Pokemon is dangerous as hell and with Future Sight to help it out even further to break past most checks once weakened, Weavile can just go ham. Fantastic Speed tier which is very very appreciated with outspeeding key Pokemon in the metagame right now such as Tornadus-T and Garchomp is absolute dope and I can't stress enough to express how good this Pokemon evolved in the past weeks and I think it deserves yet another rise. Choice Band makes progress like nothing else with a strong Knock Off and even HDB + SD sets are legitimate one of the most dangerous sets in the current meta with threatening a lot of Pokemon overall.

:urshifu: Once seen as the 'bad twin' of its wicked blowing counterpart, this Pokemon flourishes perfectly well in the current metagame. U-turn is really admired as one of the key Pokemon to help getting in its partners in. Surging Strikes and Close Combat are a great dual STAB option and with the help of a decent Speed tier, this Pokemon has found its way on many bulky offensive builds and isn't seen anymore as only a Pokemon on pure rain builds. This Pokemon thrives recently and I think its ready for a rise.

Other rises I agree with:
:aegislash:
:volcarona:

Abstain (for now):
:rillaboom:

Drops:
:slowbro-galar: I think the Quick Claw and Quick Draw niche isn't big enough to warrent it a place in the VR. I didn't see it in any serious Tournament Game recently, nor do I personally consider it on any one of my teams. I think the slim niche it has, which is very luck based as well, isn't big enough to warrant a place, unlike other Pokemon in the C- ranks, which do see some niche and at least some serious ladder play.

Drops I disagree with:
:mantine: It might seem like it wont do a lot but it has one thing, which other bulky waters can't provide, an entire immunity to its own typing due to Water Absorb making it still a considerable niche on some very rain weak teams or teams in general, which struggle with a Defogger, that won't get hit by Urshifu super effectively or neutral. I think - also Mantine seems passive - it still is a decently good enough Pokemon with having also the ability to check Volcarona a thriving metagame threat.

:incineroar: It might seem like a relic but can still do some work, its a great resist to the most spamable move in the metagame, Shadow Ball from Dragapult, it also resists and intimdates Weavile and can therefore check that Pokemon as an emergency act. I think it's too early to completely nuke this Pokemon from the VR, as it still has a considerable niche.

:weezing-galar: Same as Incineroar, still has a niche in checking certain Pokemon, due to its ability Levitate. I feel too early to unrank it entirely.

Own Nom:
:Blacephalon: yo boi that thing is Mind Blown, na seriously, I think it should get ranked 1subrank higher. With Choice Specs it is able to annihilate most teams, Shadow Ball hits like a truck and it has reasonable dual STAB with Ghost and Fire, Trick in its last slot can gie it a lot of opportunities to make enemies such as Blissey a stalemate situation and Heatran doesn't like to get tricked at all. Its Speed tier leaves out some desirable points, but still is great enough to not fear of getting revenge killed that easily. With support like Future Sight and Teleport it ias able to make a lot of progress.
I think Blacephalon is ready for another rise.

that's it from me and i hope y'all havin' a wonderful day and thanks for reading! :)
 
Even though it's a big momentum sap, Mantine is probably the truest hard counter to Volc when it packs Haze and Toxic (Mantine's not the best Defogger), since Chansey/Blissey can get demolished by Safeguard Volc (uncommon but really dangerous, as seen in high-level play) while Mantine can just Haze away the boosts while not caring about anything even offensive Volc can do at +1 with SR damage accounted for. And that's assuming the Volc set's packing Psychic and not Giga Drain, as Mantine can happily come in on a +3 Giga Drain and never be 2HKO'd.

+1 252 SpA Volcarona Psychic vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mantine: 113-134 (30.2 - 35.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Volcarona Psychic vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mantine: 151-178 (40.4 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+3 252 SpA Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mantine: 157-185 (42 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Of course, Volc has teammates, Mantine hates Knock Off, etc., but still, this is a really valuable niche. Plus, a blanket water immunity and ability to soak up nearly all non-Electric Special attacks is still useful. Mantine's a C-rank mon, but it's still got a spot on the right teams.
 
Hi all, I want to echo some earlier sentiments and provide some more context as to why I think it is time for this mammoth to rise.

:mamoswine: C+ to B-

With Landorus-T being the ruler of this meta and discussions ongoing for Dragapult and Garchomp to join Lando's court, Mamoswine stands as an excellent offensive answer to many of the tier's top threats. Besides these three, Mamoswine does an excellent job destroying Toxapex and offers offensive presence against Heatran and Volcarona if Mamo is running Thick Fat.

As for items, Choice Band is a logical choice, as it puts Mamo in range to OHKO several of the threats it is supposed to check, in particular Dragapult, heavily phys def variants of Garchomp (somewhat rare now, but still around), and Toxapex.

252+ Atk Choice Band Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 272-324 (85.8 - 102.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Garchomp: 372-436 (88.5 - 103.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 288-342 (94.7 - 112.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

However, other variants of Mamoswine are viable, and according to Pikalytics and some of my own experimentation, Mamoswine can effectively run Life Orb, Assault Vest, and Focus Sash, which offers some flexibility. The Life Orb's usage is pretty self explanatory, AV is useful for sponging hits and having a stronger matchup vs. Heatran, and Focus Sash can be used to grab a cheeky kill against Rillaboom and the occasional weakened Kartana. Additionally, it seems that Oblivious is run somewhat often on the high ladder, which I am assuming finds use in being able to dodge the Intimidate from Lando and in turn do more against its defensive variants and/or being a stronger Stealth Rock lead vs. Taunters.

Mamoswine stands in the shadow of the higher ranked offensive Ice types, Weavile and Kyurem. While it has a worse speed tier than both and lacks the Freeze Dry of the latter (as well as some other attributes), Mamoswine boasts a great physical attack stat, good HP, and STAB Earthquake. While it absolutely deserves to be placed lower than both of them, it still is much more viable than where it is currently placed, as its counter-meta movepool, item/ability versatility, and access to priority means that it can comfortably fit on a variety of teams and is less one-dimensional than some of the other Pokemon it is next to in C+. In my experience, it is rare that Mamoswine does not play a relevant role in any given match, since it has a good matchup against Lando, the ubiquitous dragons, Toxapex, and others.
 
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BT89

I COULD BE BANNED!
Rises

:heatran: A+ > S

Heatran has been good ever since the beginning of the DLC 2 meta. It’s possibly the best Pokémon in the tier right now. It pressures so many archetypes that I can’t really see it being not S. It has very little counterplay outside of hoping Magma Storm misses, and most teams will need Ground coverage if they want to hit it at all. This kind of impact is S tier worthy in my opinion.

:dragapult: :garchomp: A+ > S

These two are both amazing right now, I can’t really decide which is better, but probably Garchomp. Garchomp is possibly the most dangerous Pokémon in the tier. It poses a horrifying offensive presence, as it’s quite decent bulk for an offensive Pokemon allow it to set up quite efficiently against many things in the current meta, and then take them all down from there. For Dragapult, it’s just really restrictive and powerful against many things. It can 6-0 teams without needing any set up, since it’s actually pretty strong by itself. It’s also very fast, with only one relevant thing being able to outspeed it. Overall, these two are meta defining forces that should be S.

:kartana: :rillaboom: :kyurem: A > A+

All three of these are amazing offensive juggernauts within in the tier. Rillaboom is probably the best out of the three. It has possibly the most powerful priority move in the game with its STAB Grassy Glide, as well as being devastatingly powerful against many teams. I believe the one thing holding it back is that Grass is not a good STAB. Kartana is possibly the strongest Pokémon in the tier. After an SD, it has almost no walls, and since it has a solid Speed tier, it is definitely able to abuse it. It’s only issue is the lack of bulk, since any Fire type will make it perish. Finally, Kyurem is nigh unwallable. Specs Kyurem has almost no walls outside of Scizor, who can still get Focus Blasted if it hits. SubRoost can be an annoying set with Pressure being a great ability for it. It’s speed tier is kind of whatever, which can be a boon for Specs sets, but overall, this thing is amazing.

:skarmory: A- > A

Skarmory is an increasingly good Pokemon in the current meta. It is a completely separate entity from Corviknight, since it can offer more physically defensive utility and Spikes support for stall and balance. It also hard checks many things such as Rillaboom and Kartana. It is also not passive, since Body Press can pressure many things in the current meta. I don’t see any reason that it shouldn’t be A.

:volcarona: A- > A/A+

Volcarona is by far the best match up fish in the tier. Once Heatran is taken care of, Volcarona basically just sweeps your entire team. It’s dangerously powerful after just a single Quiver Dance. There are also a good variety of sets that can be run on it. It’s big issue is the relevance of Heatran. If Heatran wasn’t so big right now, Volcarona would probably be considered broken by more people.

:victini: B > B+

Oh my god, fine, I’ll nom Victini up. After some experimentation, I find that Victini is quite the solid Pokemon in the tier. It can work as a Trick lead, a pivot, a sweeper, etc. Quite versatile, to say the least. Too bad this Pokémon is basically unsplashable, which makes it much much worse than it would be if it was. Good Pokemon, just not better than most.

:aegislash: B > B+

Aegislash is really strong. A lot of more defensively oriented teams despise this thing. It takes care of many things in the current metagame, and quite well at that. It also pairs well with many metagame trends, like Urshifu Rapid and Rillaboom. It can also hinder many common breakers as well. I don’t really have much else to say, so we move on.

:tapu-bulu: B > B+

This thing gets too much hate in my opinion. I’ve heard many people say “Hurr durr, Rilla exists, so it must suck, hurr durr”. That isn’t the case at all. In fact, I believe Bulu to be a unique entity from Rillaboom. It can be both offensive and defensive, with good variation between both. It can also work well as a Rilla check due to it taking almost nothing from most things it can do, and being able to offensively pressure it as well. This Pokemon is slept on, and undeservedly so.

:mew: C+ > B-

This Pokemon almost got usage for OU last month, which is neat. It made me want to see what it can do. Oh boy can it do something. It is a nice lead on many offensive teams, since its bulk more or less gives it at least one turn to do something, and if it is threatened too hard, it can either use Explosion or Flare Blitz to become something of a suicide lead. I’ve never had a Mew die in one hit, and because of this, Red Card sets are quite useful in forcing out many offensive Pokemon that could be threatening. Overall, Mew is a solid Pokemon that deserves its solid usage.

:terrakion: C+ > B-

Terrakion is still slept on to this day. It is almost un-switchin-able, since it has amazing strength after a Swords Dance. With FS, it can pressure many teams amazingly well. It’s big flaw is the lack of Speed and bulk, which does hold it back quite a bit. However, it’s still quite solid.

:keldeo: C > C+

Keldeo is slept on and deserves a rise still. Nothing likes switching in on it, either with FS support, or with rain. It has a solid Speed tier, and some versatility with what it can run. It’s big flaw is that it is walled by Slowking, an increasingly common Pokemon in the current meta. Still solid though, and deserves a rise.

:grimmsnarl: :weezing-galar: C- > C+/C

Let’s start with Grimmsnarl. This was the worst drop that was made. Grimmsnarl is one of the best screen setters in the current OU meta, as it has Prankster to guarantee that it gets the Screens up, along with many utility options that help it with this role. It’s also pretty strong for a utility mon. But the sheer fact that it will always be getting at least one supportive option off makes it much better than the C-‘s, and should be C+ imo. Galarian Weezing checks many things in the current meta with a unique ability stopping things such as Rillaboom from getting their precious ability boost. It has many ways to switch in and do some solid damage against many things. This is the C nom listed on the initial nom. Both of these are really solid Fairy types in the current meta.

Drops

:toxapex: A+ > A

This is my hottest take. Toxapex isn’t exactly a Top 10 Pokémon right now in my opinion. It has to rely on cores to really have any sort of notable impact within a match. It also struggles finding points of entry without a pivot, since many Pokemon in the current meta are perfectly capable of 2HKO-ing with their super effective coverage or STAB. It also despises the rise of Slowking in the current OU meta, since Future Sight more or less invalidates Toxapex. It isn’t exactly bad, it still walls a ton of stuff. just not exactly Top 10 material.

:mandibuzz: A- > B+

Mandibuzz has been growing worse and worse as time goes on. Many things that it is supposed to check have ways of going around it. Even Dragapult can take it down with 2 Draco Meteors. It’s also just outclassed by Corviknight in most scenarios, since it has more or less better match ups across the board.

:swampert: B > B-

Swampert is not good right now in the current OU meta. It can only really serve the role of a Stealth Rocker that can pivot. However, Lando can do that, and better since it is less afraid of a Grass type offensive behemoth coming in than Swampert, who more or less just immediately perishes. I don’t have much to say, it’s just bad.

:hawlucha: B > C+

Oh boy, this thing sucks. Hawlucha’s only redeeming quality is Unburden, which means that it can only work on Terrain HO. It is really weak, with a pitiful 95 base attack not doing much of anything without an SD. If you get forced out, you die later on. If they get a good switchin, which there are many of, it dies. It just isn’t good for anything besides being a niche TR sweeper, which justifies it being C+.

:primarina: B- > C+/C

Primarina did deserve a rise, but this is too much. With Fini being a perfectly solid Pokemon in the current OU meta, I don’t think highly on this worse version of it. Sure it’s hard to switch into, but to revenge kill? Not so much in my opinion. It hates many meta game trends like the rise of the Grasses, and it just isn’t that great.

:zarude: B- > C

Why was this Pokemon given so much mercy? It’s so bad. It despises the rise of Volcarona, as well as many of the top tier threats that pack U Turn, which it routinely takes 50 to 60 from every time it is hit. It’s also just not good, since it’s outclassed by the plethora of solid Grasses in the tier.

(Should Be) UR Gang

:shedinja:

This Pokemon does have an irreplaceable niche on stall teams. However, it doesn’t make it good. It is super prediction reliant and really specific in what it has to switch into because otherwise it just dies. It’s extremely niche, and I don’t think it’s really worthy of a spot here.

:araquanid:

There are better Web setters, and better offensive Water types. It’s just too slow to get anything really done within a battle. Simple as that. Also, Webs HO and TR are bad, and there are better abusers of both.
 
:porygon2: UR -> C- / C: Porygon2 is the best pick for 3rd TR setter after Hatterene/Uxie and Cresselia. Having access to an eviolite lets porygon2 invest into special attack without having to compromise its bulk, which :slowbro: can't say. I've been running healing wish over misty explosion on hatterene as of recent so the lack of a recovery on the sets I use isn't quite as damning as you would think.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1329559697-dohvs501wwgcdfx5gvqxigqfa1ariufpw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1313049937-54oj7ar8iq8jmekb2rwl5skvj17fpchpw
-does >55% to 4 of the opposing team members and 1v1ing Thundurus
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1325523457-4gagspa0dnkmmnarhautza5bu59dswipw
-Porygon2 knocks out Skarm, letting Melmetal sweep
 
Can we just drop hydreigon :hydreigon: already? There's no way it belongs in A tier with mons like Kyurem :kyurem:, Kartana :kartana: , and Rillaboom :Rillaboom:. The days of it being a solid defogger are past it,choice scarf is still mediocre and nasty plot while really strong is way too hard to set up with its mediocre speed tier. There's no way you're going to be setting up +2 consistently with things such as Weavile :weavile:,Dragapult:dragapult:,Zeraora:zeraora:,Tapu Koko:tapu-koko:,Clefable:clefable: and Garchomp:garchomp: running around all of which are top tier threats. The difference between Hydreigon and the other offensive mons in A tier is that it needs to set up to be a threat.Choice band Rillaboom and Kartana along with Specs Kyurem,Tapu Lele and Tapu Koko are all not only viable sets but have the immediate power that can either force out pokemon or straight up have very little switch-ins. Even if they opt to use set up sets instead of choice items they still find way more opportunities to be able to set up more than nasty plot hydreigon.Look at nasty ploy hydreigon vs something like swords dance rillaboom or bulk up zeraora and honestly tell me Hydreigon is a better set up mon than mons like those. The reason Hydreigon just doesn't work as well as it should as a set up mon is it doesn't have any traits that help take advantage of its ability to set up such as priority, its speed tier, or being able to take advantage of it's pivoting.I've tried to find a good argument justifying Hydreigon belonging in A tier ever since the Spectrier ban and literally all I could find was something along the lines of "No, Just No" in response to someone suggesting Hydreigon dropping. It also doesn't help that more mons are investing into special defense now since specs dragapult is terrorizing the tier especially with specially defensive clefable rising up as well as blissey.So yeah,This mon deserves to drop and I'd say to B+ tier because even when I look at A- tier I still see those mons way more than Hydreigon

:hydreigon: A > B+
 
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Finchinator

Harry's House
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OU & NU Leader
Incineroar, Thundurus, Nidoqueen, and Weezing-Galar should all be considered for UR, in my opinion.

Our VR has been cluttered with a plethora of Pokemon that are on the outskirts of relevance, seemingly toeing the line between inclusion and lack thereof. As of late, we have seen the condensing of the higher ranks with the metagame settling after the quickbans of Cinderace and Magearna. One can argue the tier is slightly more stable, giving us a chance to come up with precise ranks for the faces of our metagame in the S and A ranks. However, we have mostly let the C ranks settle (barring a few exceptions) despite every change in viability tricking down to impact them as well. I believe it is a good time to address them.

Inceinroar saw some usage in the DLC1 metagame as a pivot with Aegislash being common and was seen sporadically during Spectrier meta post-DLC2. Aegislash has fallen to UU and Spectrier is banned. It is not durable enough to do the dance against Dragapult or even the rare offensive Gengar in the long haul, so that leaves me wondering: why use Incineroar? Some people have clung on to flimsy arguments about Parting Shot + the Dark typing and an offensive presence gives it some niche, which I can at least understand. However, that niche does not really lead to placement on many teams and I fail to see this changing. Personally, I never see it on the ladder and I think it should be unranked unless there is some sudden revitalization. There really are very few, if any, reasons to even consider using it at all.

Nidoqueen is an awkward case as you can argue being a slightly more durable variant of Nidoking, with a little speed being the main trade-off, is a niche alone given Nidoking’s success. However, there are few things this slot is needed for defensively and those things Nidoking still checks a few times over — Tapu Koko, Regieleki, and CM Clefable being the main Pokemon here. Sure, Nidoqueen can handle these Pokemon for a bit longer and it stands a better chance against Heatran’s Magma Storm or Zapdos’s Hurricane, which it is likely to encounter, but that’s about all you can argue. Nidoqueen is weaker than Nidoking, forcing it to struggle more against Slowking and lose mixed breaking potential against Blissey. Considering how offensively geared and coverage damage output this slot tends to be, Nidoking is straight-up superior on just about every team. I think you can still argue for C- here, but it’s a stretch and I never see Nidoqueen, which makes it even more challenging to justify.

Weezing-Galar was one of the more pleasant surprises of the late DLC1 metagame, saving the day against a number of prominent physical attackers, which included the then-allowed Urshifu-S and brand-new Grassy Surge Rillaboom. However, there are fewer reasons to even consider, let alone bring, it now. Dark types like Bisharp and even Weavile can now muscle past it, Kartana is a physical Grass that can take it out with Smart Strike, Grounds are more threatening than ever, and special attackers like Heatran demolish it offensively while doing the trick defensively. Weezing-Galar’s fall from grace has been quick, but it’s also a clear response to unfavorable metagame conditions. I do not see much reason to use it over alternatives right now.

Finally, Thundurus is virtually nonexistent. You can argue for some Prankster oriented niche or even NP3a, but it cannot break past Garchomp, Landorus-T, or Hippowdon without multiple turns, which is far too big of an ask for something already fragile. It is easy to revenge kill and the only thing really going for it is HDB negating SR. I never see Thundurus-T and so long as it lacks Hidden Power, it likely also lacks a place in this metagame.
 

Fusion Flare

LIVING IN A GODDAMN GARBAGE CAN???
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
You know what? Screw the ENTIRETY of C-.
Not just the ones Finchinator mentioned. They’re all bad. Legitimately dogshit. And I’m gonna list the ones that I think are some of the WORST offenders.

:ss/araquanid: :ss/ribombee:
Webs Wavering War
Webs are horrendous teamstyles, and for good reason. Everyone and their mother’s pokemon are rocking Boots. Everyone and their mother’s pokemon have priority moves to rip past these teams. And unlike screens, they don’t have the temporary enhanced bulk to prevent revenge killers. They’re just absolutely unusable gimmicks, and i see no reason why these web setters even deserve to be ranked in the first place.

:ss/mimikyu:
Saggy Spectral Shitrag
It may have been a good contender for the most popular pokemon, but unfortunately,
This pokemon is not good in the metagame and never has been! Let’s go through why, short and sweet, shall we?

Hits like a wet paper towel, accomplishes nothing against most physically bulky mons, pretty much a waste of a team slot for most if not all teams, and really, the only reason you are using it is for some shitty “blanket check” when you could be accomplishing a decent team with actual pokemon that do good vs offense. Pathetic.

:ss/charizard:
who the fuck is this?
I think the last time i saw this thing in serious play was when Finchinator battled that one dude looking to take over smogon. Other than that, i just wouldn’t use this unless i came fresh off the anime nostalgia. Bring back megas :(
 
You know what? Screw the ENTIRETY of C-.
Not just the ones Finchinator mentioned. They’re all bad. Legitimately dogshit. And I’m gonna list the ones that I think are some of the WORST offenders.

:ss/araquanid: :ss/ribombee:
Webs Wavering War
Webs are horrendous teamstyles, and for good reason. Everyone and their mother’s pokemon are rocking Boots. Everyone and their mother’s pokemon have priority moves to rip past these teams. And unlike screens, they don’t have the temporary enhanced bulk to prevent revenge killers. They’re just absolutely unusable gimmicks, and i see no reason why these web setters even deserve to be ranked in the first place.

:ss/mimikyu:
Saggy Spectral Shitrag
It may have been a good contender for the most popular pokemon, but unfortunately,
This pokemon is not good in the metagame and never has been! Let’s go through why, short and sweet, shall we?

Hits like a wet paper towel, accomplishes nothing against most physically bulky mons, pretty much a waste of a team slot for most if not all teams, and really, the only reason you are using it is for some shitty “blanket check” when you could be accomplishing a decent team with actual pokemon that do good vs offense. Pathetic.

:ss/charizard:
who the fuck is this?
I think the last time i saw this thing in serious play was when Finchinator battled that one dude looking to take over smogon. Other than that, i just wouldn’t use this unless i came fresh off the anime nostalgia. Bring back megas :(
Sun isnt a great play style rn but if for some reason u decided to use it, u probably will use it along side venusaur. Its struggle with tran, chomp but I guess with the help of venusaur u should find a way to beats this kind of threats, zard has the potencial of beating every single mon but keeping rocks off and that ok speed tier make it difficult to trive. C- Is ok, because is so niche hopefully someone tried to make it work and with parthers like heatran u can overwhelm its checks. Youtubers are a great way to influence players to experiment or if a group of try to make it work but yea leave zard there because still that rank aint good. Of course inferior to venusaur because some teams opt for tran and if thats ur argument well then ok, probably wouldnt mind unranked at all.
 

Martin

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I don’t have any noms but I support Pult to S bc it’s the #1 mon in the format and it’s not even close.

Also I’ve tried using Nidoqueen and, as fun as it is to use, its speed tier is frankly crippling to the point where it has little to no niche. Being a bulky Ground-type that is slower than Heatran+neut to Storm+weak to EP doesn’t gel well with a format where a big chunk of a Ground-type’s role comes from it forcing Heatran out, and because of it being one base slower than Tran it needs to make quite substantial compromises to check different variants. Generally you have to choose between very heavy investment to not drop to Storm+EP or creep whatever SpD Tran benchmark your team cares most about to avoid taking EP from it when ur not reasonably healthy at the cost of (usually physical) bulk; modest tran is not justifiable to creep bc at that point you’re compromising Nidoqueen’s whole niche over King and timid is straight up impossible to outrun. This, combined with TSpikes just being plain bad in this format imo, makes it next to impossible to justify over faster bulky Ground-types, Nidoking, or Swampert unless you really desperately want to go out of your way to use it for whatever reason. And the range of Pokémon that it checks compared to Toxapex, Glowking, or even Amoonguss as a Poison-type is really not very impressive—it’s immune to Electricity+Toxic which is nice vs Zera and it takes jack all from all of Koko’s moves barring Nature’s Madness but otherwise it can be easily overwhelmed and Zera knocks off your Black Sludge/Koko still just clicks U-turn unpunished so was it really worth the slot?—and this is compounded by its lack of recovery and strapped moveslots.
 
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TailGlowVM

Now 100% more demonic
is a Pre-Contributor
Hello, it's your local Diancie activist* TailGlowVM here with thoughts on the low ranks!

Whilst I'm not sure if these Pokemon should just be unranked, I do question the use of a few other low-ranked Pokemon in this meta, namely Togekiss, Celesteela, Obstagoon, and Slowbro-G.

I agree with unranking Nidoqueen - the main reason it remained viable in past gens UU when Nidoking was there was the ability to use a Modest nature for marginally more power, but Modest Nidoking is considered perfectly viable here, making that irrelevant.

I agree with unranking Thundurus-I, Incineroar, Weezing-G and Mimikyu as well, but would definitely keep webs - can still work ok with a few Knock Off users.

For Charizard it depends whether it does enough to be worth using over Specs Heatran on sun - but I don't play sun teams so I will leave that up to those that do.

*Working on a nomination for that, but I need more time.
 
:dragapult: A+ to S-: meta defining threat rn with so much speed and versatility in physical/special/pivot sets that it’s deserving of an S- rank.

:blissey: B+ to A-: blissey offers a dragapult + kyurem check and teleports for momentum, so it’s not as passive as you’d think. it also gives utility in rocks. definitely a great option to consider as there’s no mon that you could call a guaranteed switch in to special pult from S to A- ranks other than maybe mandibuzz i guess.

:hydreigon: A to A-: weavile and bisharp are more common as offensive dark types rn. hydreigon is great and has nicer defensive utility than those two but it’s easier to check with so much blissey around.

:hawlucha: B to B+: ho is on the rise and this is a pretty solid wincon on ho teams. it offers a good source of speed control as a revenge killer when some opposing sweeper gets boosts.
 
:glastrier: C+ -> C/C-

It needs so much support to even do anything, it needs trick room, swords dance to break anything, and its open to most bulky waters such as slowbro, slowking, and bulky pokemon in general like corviknight, skarmory, volcarona. It is outclassed as a ice type breaker by weavile and kyurem both who are top tier pokemon. Trick room is niche at best and it should drop to correspond with the decrease of usage of TR. Yeah it has huge bulk, but why use this instead of another physically offensive bulky pokemon such as landorus-t or melmetal who have actual defensive uses to utilize the bulk.
 
:suicune: to C
What is this fucker doing with victini in the B ranks? Suicune is legit a shit mon now, legit mufish and not even a good sweeper. So many teams have stuff for this fucker, legit drop this it’s so bad. Not to mention but it’s outclassed by other pp stallers like corv, kyurem, sub zapdos.

:mandibuzz: to B
Mandibuzz is declining in usage and for good reason, most of the thing it does it just outclassed by corv who had a better mu and typing vs everything. Not to mention most of the mon it checks have knock off and without boots, Mandi is a shitmon and useless garbage in a game. It’s only used as a dragapult check who dies to draco after a uturn. This thing should drop.
 
:gastrodon-east: B ->B+
Gastrodon is more consistent imo than the other stuff in B, with stuff like Buzzwole and Reuniclus being kinda match-up fishy, whereas Gastrodon can reliably put in work as a special wall every game. Dragapult’s popularity is really great for it as well as it can consistently answer Specs after rocks, which is pretty valuable rn. It’s also a solid counter to a bunch of mons with really wide movepools like Nidoking and Glowking, as well as Electrics like Zapdos and Dracozolt. Gastrodon is also a decent Heatran switch-in and presents a much greater threat to Heatran with Earthquake or Earth Power than Slowking does with Scald. It can also beat any Volcarona lacking Giga Drain. Urshifu-R rising is also good for Gastrodon since Storm Drain can shut down Surging Strikes, while Sticky Hold is also nice for soaking weak Knock Offs from stuff like Clefable.

Other noms I support:
:dragapult: A+ ->S-
:rillaboom: A ->A+
:blissey: B+ ->A-
:heatran: A+ ->S-
 
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Noms i agree on:

:Dragapult: A+ -> S-
:Mandibuzz: A- -> B
:Volcarona: A- -> A/A+
:Garchomp: A+ -> S-
:Rillaboom: A -> A+
:Kyurem: A -> A+
:Blissey: B+ -> A-
:Nidoqueen: B- -> UR
:Thundurus: C- -> UR
:Incineroar: C -> UR

Noms i disagree on and why:

:Landorus-Therian: S -> A+
This is dumb. Landot is both versatile and the most splashable mon in the tier. Nuff said.

:Hydreigon: A -> B+
I completely disagree with B+, maybe A- but im split on that as well. Hydreigon's defensive utility is pretty useful for a wallbreaker as it has decent bulk, access to roost and useful resistance to knock off (as it doesn't depends on its item as much as pult or kyurem),sucker punch, psychic,ground,water and spikes,etc, are big edges it have. Hydreigon also doesn't always goes for setup, 3 atcks + roost is also used with even superpower sometimes which allows it to get rid of its common switchins like blissey,ttar and mons like clefable as well with flash cannon. There isn't really any consistent switchin to it due to this except fini which is getting decline in both usage and viability while slowking and hippow are becoming more common as walls which hydreigon enjoys. Its speed tier isn't as bad either and faster mons couldn't switchin. Its able to revenge kill or check mons like kyurem, landot, rillaboom, nidoking, bisharp,urshifu,etc.while other mons that appear to check hydreigon can also be taken out after np boost like dnite,mandi and tapu lele. Its able to switchin and setup most of the time on mons like slowking,hippo,pex,heatran,etc. Roost means its able to repeatedly switchin with considersble longetivity while recovering lo,status, hazard or resisted dmg chip. Of course hydreigon is with its flaws. The biggest one is 4MSS while the other is the existence of pult which is not only a check but also a competition. After all of these points,id say either let hydreigon remain mid A because its better than most of the stuff in A- but i won't mind a drop to A- as well considering it doesn feel weaker compared to most of the mid A(though they are being nommed to A+,which again justifies my claim of A rank) but B+ is too much of a stretch imo

:Nidoking: A- -> B+
I also disagree on this as nidoking is still a pain to switchin wo slowking while blissey could drop to focus punch.A- is fine rn

:Tyranitar: B+ -> A-:
Ttar doesn't wall pult at all as it clicks u turn for days while band being a better set is too slow to work and hippow,corv and pex could be a pain to break past even with coverage. Just use heatran if u want a mon that hard counters vooc while still somewhat works against pult as a check along with other mons.

:Heatran: A+ -> S
Its amazing but not quite S when meta is dominated by landot and chomp while also having adopted to it by plenty of other checks like hydreigon,dnite,etc
 
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[/QUOTE]
Noms i agree on:

:Dragapult: A+ -> S-
:Mandibuzz: A- -> B
:Volcarona: A- -> A/A+
:Garchomp: A+ -> S-
:Rillaboom: A -> A+
:Kyurem: A -> A+
:Blissey: B+ -> A-
:Nidoqueen: B- -> UR
:Thundurus: C- -> UR
:Incineroar: C -> UR

Noms i disagree on and why:

:Landorus-Therian: S -> A+
This is dumb. Landot is both versatile and the most splashable mon in the tier. Nuff said.

:Hydreigon: A -> B+
I completely disagree with B+, maybe A- but im split on that as well. Hydreigon's defensive utility is pretty useful for a wallbreaker as it has decent bulk, access to roost and useful resistance to knock off (as it doesn't depends on its item as much as pult or kyurem),sucker punch, psychic,ground,water and spikes,etc, are big edges it have. Hydreigon also doesn't always goes for setup, 3 atcks + roost is also used with even superpower sometimes which allows it to get rid of its common switchins like blissey,ttar and mons like clefable as well with flash cannon. There isn't really any consistent switchin to it due to this except fini which is getting decline in both usage and viability while slowking and hippow are becoming more common as walls which hydreigon enjoys. Its speed tier isn't as bad either and faster mons couldn't switchin. Its able to revenge kill or check mons like kyurem, landot, rillaboom, nidoking, bisharp,urshifu,etc.while other mons that appear to check hydreigon can also be taken out after np boost like dnite,mandi and tapu lele. Its able to switchin and setup most of the time on mons like slowking,hippo,pex,heatran,etc. Roost means its able to repeatedly switchin with considersble longetivity while recovering lo,status, hazard or resisted dmg chip. Of course hydreigon is with its flaws. The biggest one is 4MSS while the other is the existence of pult which is not only a check but also a competition. After all of these points,id say either let hydreigon remain mid A because its better than most of the stuff in A- but i won't mind a drop to A- as well considering it doesn feel weaker compared to most of the mid A(though they are being nommed to A+,which again justifies my claim of A rank) but B+ is too much of a stretch imo

:Nidoking: A- -> B+
I also disagree on this as nidoking is still a pain to switchin wo slowking while blissey could drop to focus punch.A- is fine rn

:Tyranitar: B+ -> A-:
Ttar doesn't wall pult at all as it clicks u turn for days while band being a better set is too slow to work and hippow,corv and pex could be a pain to break past even with coverage. Just use heatran if u want a mon that hard counters vooc while still somewhat works against pult as a check along with other mons.

:Heatran: A+ -> S
Its amazing but not quite S when meta is dominated by landot and chomp while also having adopted to it by plenty of other checks like hydreigon,dnite,etc
I disagree that Hydreigon has a 4MSS, it can fit plenty of moves and Nidoking is in a tough spot with the rise of Slowking and other breakers in Kyurem and Lele that are far better as of rn. Other than that I agree.
 
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I agree that Hydreigon should go down but B+ is a bit too far down. It still does a great job at punching holes in fat teams, and is one of the tier's best Heatran answers considering its ability to switch in, threaten with earth power, and roost off damage. 98 speed still gets the jump on things like Tapu Lele and Kyurem. Tapu Lele can get taken out by Flash Cannon or Dark Pulse with a bit of chip, and Hydra's psychic immunity allows it to switch in on choiced sets and force it out. The main thing holding it back is the presence of faster mons like Dragapult, Tapu Koko, Weavile, Garchomp, and others that make it hard for Hydreigon to find an opportunity to switch in and get a KO.
:Hydreigon: A --> A-
 
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:regieleki: C -> UR

This pokemon is absolute garbage, its offensive sets are blanked by zeraora, every ground in the tier such as landorus-t, garchomp, hippowdown, excadrill, nidkoing, swampert, and other pokemon such as av tangrowth, blissey, sp def ferrothorn, and av slowking, it just is not touching any of these pokemon and every team should have 1-2 of these pokemon. The screens set is out done by tapu koko who has taunt and u-turn and actual utility with electric terrain preventing spore and sleep powder, and gives hawlucha unburden. Regieleki only has rapid spin in which you should have excadrill or landorus, as your lead slot most of the time as it is one of the best suicide leads. Without taunt it has to explode a lot of the time to prevent defog from something like scarf lando, zapdos, or from rotom-wash which only usually lets it set up one time per game while koko can set it up multiple times since it can pivot out with a free u-turn.
 
:corviknight:
Corviknight for S tier. This shit is super useful, probably the best defogger in the tier, while being one of the best counter to grasses AND to lele. In addition, it counters lando, drill, some rare variants of chomp, can take hits from subroost kyurem and pivot out, and generally checka lot of shit. In addition, bulk up sets are super dangerous if you're not ready for them, and can destroy your team.

:dragapult:
Dragapult for S tier. Dragapult is one of the best, if not the best, offensive mon in the metagame. Its best and most common set, the specs set, is the best cleaner AND one of the best breaker in the metagame. It's a strong, easy to slap on offensive presence. It is the second fastest mon in the metagame behind zeraora (I'm not counting regieleki because it's kinda trash), and much of zeraora's viability comes from outspeeding Dragapult. On top of that, it can take a rillaboom grassy glide and kill it with draco meteor (or shadow ballif the rilla is weaken). Dragapult is fast, but it's also pretty strong. Yeah, 100 speatk isn't spectacular, but slap specs on it, and it begins to really stings. Put on top of that a 130 bp stab and a near unresisted 80 bp stab (which btw menaces one of the most common special walls, slowking), and this things can clean up teams without even thinking about it. OH yeah and it has not one but TWO moveslots to spare. You canselectyour slots as you please, u-turn for mometum, hex if you're running a status spam, will-o-wisp/thunder wave to cripple the opposition, flamethrower/hpump/tbolt for coverage, etc. To put the cherry on the cake, infiltrator means it ignore screens and sub (so forget about subbing up with kyurem to menace it). And I'm only talking about the specs set, and not the scarf set, the dd set, the hex boots set, the sub disable dd set (yeah you heard that right, and it's one of the most annoying ones to face), or even the possibility of a cb set. This shit is a metagame pillar with its most common set, while being able to run a few other sets that are all menacing. So yeah, S-tier.

(Also it's my first post on smogon, yay)
 
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Since I have some extra time; I’ll finish what I started. :blobwizard:

S-tier:
:dragapult:
A+ —> S-/S (100% agree)

Dragapult has always been one of the best, if not the best special attacker since day one. It’s also a meta-defining threat that also restricts teambuilding. All of its sets, namely Choice Specs, Choice Scarf, Life Orb, Sub DD, Sub DD Disable, Mixed Weakness Policy, Heavy Duty Boots, and Status Hex are all viable and have their own niche and use.

:heatran: A+ —> S- (agree)
Heatran definitely isn’t as good as Dragapult, but it definitely deserves to be up there in S tier. Heatran is THE CEO OF STALL BREAKING. It traps and KOes passive mons such as Toxapex and Blissey with Magma Storm and Earth Power/Toxic. Aside from being a consistent stallbreaker, it is also a great check to Volcarona, resisting anything Volcarona carries, whether Fiery Dance, Bug Buzz, Psychic, Hurricane, etc.

:garchomp: A+ —> S- (agree)
This thing sets up SD, uses Scale Shot, and hopes that there is no metal bird in sight. Garchomp has destructive breaking power; almost nothing can stop it after an SD. Nothing much to say after that. :p

A-tier
:volcarona: —> A+ (100% agree)

Volcarona becomes an unstoppable force after a few Quiver Dances; only Heatran and Blissey are actually able to stop it before it gets out of hand. Both offensive and defensive variants are both really good and have their own use.

:weavile: —> to A (agree)
Weavile’s Knock Off + Icicle Crash STAB combo hurts. A lot. Weavile’s best set, SD dual STAB Ice Shard does very well in the current meta (good thing zama-c didn’t drop).

:urshifu-rapid-strike: — A (agree)
This thing fits very well on rain, but it’s also a menace outside of rain. It abuses FuturePort and handles Kyurem very well.

B-tier:
:victini: —> B+ (100% agree)

Victini, a new rising star, is a great pivot and offensive threat due to having a great movepool and offensive stats. It has multiple great sets, such as HDB Pivot, Scarf Final Gambit, Scarf + Trick Pivot, and Mixed LO attacker.

:mandibuzz: to B+ (agree)
Mandibuzz is getting outclassed by Corviknight as a Defogger, as Corv is much more reliable and can check physcial attackers like Garchomp. Since Spectrier got banned, it has been declining in usage, and for good reason. Now it’s only really able to check Pult, who can either U-turn out or click Draco Meteor, which can heavily damage Mandi.

:swampert: to B- (agree)
Swampert has a good typing and splashable moveset, but it’s starting to lose its purpose. It’s outclassed by tanks such as Hippo, Corviknight, and even Scizor, who can actually click recovery moves.

:thundurus-therian:, :latias:, :gengar:C+ —> B-
In my opinion, these mons absolutely do not deserve being in C+. They are phenomenal and powerful special attackers when used well.
• Thundurus-T is great in rain; it provides great utility in rain teams due to having Volt Absorb and its Thunder + Weather Ball + Focus Blast combination that hit everything in the tier with either neutral or super-effective damage. Thundurus-T can easily force out Slowking with the use of Thunder (although it is fun to catch the ground type on the switch-in with weather ball in the rain).
• Latias’ very good bulk and CM + Agility/Roost + Stored Power + Aura Sphere combo allow it to be a devastating sweeper who can deal massive damage, especially under dual screens.
• Gengar has been and still is a great mon to use. Gengar’s great speed tier and access to Nasty Plot and great coverage moves make it a force to be reckoned with. Its preferred dual STAB combination, Shadow Ball and Sludge Wave is hard to wall. Like Thundurus-T, Gengar also forces Slowking out with Shadow Ball (just make sure you don’t get hit by Future Sight).
C-tier
:keldeo:C —> C+
• Keldeo is definitely a underrated, but with its Sub CM set, it can turn the tide (get it?) of the battle around. It’s a great late-game sweeper, where Slowking is hopefully gone.
apologies for any errors, i’m on mobile rn
(please tell me you got all my puns)
 
As soon as Volcarona gets really good people start hating on it. pain

Alright, time to do this again:
:terrakion: to B/B+ (I would even argue for A-, because it seems about as viable as Urshifu-R as a wallbreaker)

Terrakion is honestly criminally underrated and underused. This thing has an amazing STAB combo, Swords Dance, and all of the coverage that it needs, allowing it to break basically everything in the tier. The secret to its success as an wallbreaker is its high-powered STABs, with Stone Edge sitting at a nice 100-BP and CC at an extremely high 120 BP. So, although a base 129 Atk doesn't seem special among wallbreakers (I mean, look at Lando-T's 145 base Atk), it still hits incredibly hard. It has two sets (SubSalac doesn't work that well as it turns out sorry guys), but both have serious potential in the current metagame, and I'm going to show you why.

(a lot of this might seem similar to my earlier Terrakion nom, and that is because not much as changed, but I feel that Terrakion still deserve to rise so I'm making an actual post here instead of tagging my post in the discussion thread)

Choice Band

:ss/terrakion:
Terrakion @ Choice Band
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (NO ADAMANT because its speed tier is actually important)
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Megahorn / Poison Jab / Quick Attack

Urshifu Mk III. The Choice Band set is actually really hard to switch into for similar reasons as both of the actual Urshifus: high-powered STABs without many common switchins. In fact, most of the time, all it needs is just its STABs and Earthquake to take out Toxapex (and Aegislash but we don't care about him as much). This Terrakion set is one of the best abusers of FuturePort, because then it can just spam Close Combats without caring about who switches in. Megahorn was the best option when Slowbro was all over the place, but now you can run Poison Jab to rip apart fairies. Quick Attack might seem odd but since Terrakion is fine with just three moves, it can afford that moveslot to improve its matchup against offense. Not that it struggles as much against offense as other wallbreakers though, because its base 108 Spe let it outspeed many key threats, such as Kyurem and Garchomp. And...there's not much to talk about here that's not already obvious. It's really hard to switch into, its speed tier is actually great, and it can have some freedom with its moveslots so its not that predictable.

Swords Dance

:ss/terrakion:
Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (again no Adamant)
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake ( / Megahorn / Poison Jab)

The epitome of no switchins everything dies. This thing at +2 has practically zero defensive counterplay to speak of because everything just gets 2HKOed, if not OHKOed. Again, all it really needs is its STABs, and Earthquake is nice to take on Toxapex. Terrakion loves the meta full of Steel- and Flying-types (when was OU not full of Steel-types again?) because they give it ample opportunities to set up. It can set up on titans like Heatran, Ferrothorn, and Zapdos, all top defensive Pokemon in the current metagame. In addition, thanks to its speed tier and reasonable bulk, Terrakion can stand up to lots of offensive threats and even set up in their faces, including Kyurem, Volcarona, and Hydreigon. And once it's set up, the opponent can basically kiss one of their Pokemon goodbye (I'm still waiting for someone to give me a switchin for this thing!). Seriously, check the calcs. The damage output of this thing at +2 is enormous, and nothing in OU can switch in. Truly a testament for the power of this thing.


So, why has Terrakion gotten better that it warrents a rise so high? Well, for starters, I thought that it was already pretty good before the Zama-C suspect (oh yeah it destroys Zama-C too lol). But if anything, the metagame has only grown kinder to Terrakion. We all know that Pokemon like Weavile, Bisharp, and Dragonite are skyrocketing in viability, and this is just great for Terrakion, who completely murders all of them. We also have Buzzwole and Hippowdon, two of the only Pokemon that even stands a chance against Terrakion, falling out of favor. Finally, rain and sand dropping in viability is something that Terrakion really likes, because rain easily destroys it with their water-typed attacks and packed a revenge killer in Barraskewda and sand commonly pack Hippowdon and Excadrill, two problems for Terrakion. All in all, while I think that Terrakion is a great mon already, recent metagame shifts have only brought things more in its favor.
 
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As soon as Volcarona gets really good people start hating on it. pain

Alright, time to do this again:
:terrakion: to B/B+ (I would even argue for A-, because it seems about as viable as Urshifu-R as a wallbreaker)

Terrakion is honestly criminally underrated and underused. This thing has an amazing STAB combo, Swords Dance, and all of the coverage that it needs, allowing it to break basically everything in the tier. The secret to its success as an wallbreaker is its high-powered STABs, with Stone Edge sitting at a nice 100-BP and CC at an extremely high 120 BP. So, although a base 129 Atk doesn't seem special among wallbreakers (I mean, look at Lando-T's 145 base Atk), it still hits incredibly hard. It has two sets (SubSalac doesn't work that well as it turns out sorry guys), but both have serious potential in the current metagame, and I'm going to show you why.

(a lot of this might seem similar to my earlier Terrakion nom, and that is because not much as changed, but I feel that Terrakion still deserve to rise so I'm making an actual post here instead of tagging my post in the discussion thread)

Choice Band

:ss/terrakion:
Terrakion @ Choice Band
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (NO ADAMANT because its speed tier is very important)
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Megahorn / Poison Jab / Quick Attack

Urshifu Mk III. The Choice Band set is actually really hard to switch into for similar reasons as both of the actual Urshifus: high-powered STABs without many common switchins. In fact, most of the time, all it needs is just its STABs and Earthquake to take out Toxapex (and Aegislash but we don't care about him as much). This Terrakion set is one of the best abusers of FuturePort, because then it can just spam Close Combats without caring about who switches in. Megahorn was the best option when Slowbro was all over the place, but now you can run Poison Jab to rip apart fairies. Quick Attack might seem odd but since Terrakion is fine with just three moves, it can afford that moveslot to improve its matchup against offense. Not that it struggles as much against offense as other wallbreakers though, because its base 108 Spe let it outspeed many key threats, such as Kyurem and Garchomp. And...there's not much to talk about here that's not already obvious. It's really hard to switch into, its speed tier is actually great, and it can have some freedom with its moveslots so its not that predictable.

Swords Dance

:ss/terrakion:
Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (again no Adamant)
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake ( / Megahorn / Poison Jab)

The epitome of no switchins everything dies. This thing at +2 has practically zero defensive counterplay to speak of because everything just gets 2HKOed, if not OHKOed. Again, all it really needs is its STABs, and Earthquake is nice to take on Toxapex. Terrakion loves the meta full of Steel- and Flying-types (when was OU not full of Steel-types again?) because they give it ample opportunities to set up. It can set up on titans like Heatran, Ferrothorn, and Zapdos, all top defensive Pokemon in the current metagame. In addition, thanks to its speed tier and reasonable bulk, Terrakion can stand up to lots of offensive threats and even set up in their faces, including Kyurem, Volcarona, and Hydreigon. And once it's set up, the opponent can basically kiss one of their Pokemon goodbye (I'm still waiting for someone to give me a switchin for this thing!). Seriously, check the calcs. The damage output of this thing at +2 is enormous, and nothing in OU can switch in. Truly a testament for the power of this thing.


So, why has Terrakion gotten better that it warrents a rise so high? Well, for starters, I thought that it was already pretty good before the Zama-C suspect (oh yeah it destroys Zama-C too lol). But if anything, the metagame has only grown kinder to Terrakion. We all know that Pokemon like Weavile, Bisharp, and Dragonite are skyrocketing in viability, and this is just great for Terrakion, who completely murders all of them. We also have Buzzwole and Hippowdon, two of the only Pokemon that even stands a chance against Terrakion, falling out of favor. Finally, rain and sand dropping in viability is something that Terrakion really likes, because rain easily destroys it with their water-typed attacks and packed a revenge killer in Barraskewda and sand commonly pack Hippowdon and Excadrill, two problems for Terrakion. All in all, while I think that Terrakion is a great mon already, recent metagame shifts have only brought things more in its favor.
Not to toot your horn BUT how does Terrakion murder Zama-C when it's faster and can OHKO back with CC or behemoth bash? Also Buzzwole is rising due to grass spam being prevalent again. Also it cant reliably come into Bisharp (unless of course pivoting from teammates) since it kinda murders it back with iron head
 
Not to toot your horn BUT how does Terrakion murder Zama-C when it's faster and can OHKO back with CC or behemoth bash? Also Buzzwole is rising due to grass spam being prevalent again. Also it cant reliably come into Bisharp (unless of course pivoting from teammates) since it kinda murders it back with iron head
All true. But Zamac cannot switch in (pointless to continue this part of the argument since its agreed that it would be banned anyway), Buzzwole i feel is still out of favor (rising a tiny bit is not really rising, check the usage stats), and Inever said that it can hard switch into Bisharp (it cannot hard switch into Dragonite and Weavile either) but it easily forces it out to get free setup or just throw out an attack. Bisharp also usually wants to use Knock Off which Terrakion can just kinda abuse with Justified. You lose your item, sure, but you basically get an guarenteed kill.
 
All true. But Zamac cannot switch in (pointless to continue this part of the argument since its agreed that it would be banned anyway), Buzzwole i feel is still out of favor (rising a tiny bit is not really rising, check the usage stats), and Inever said that it can hard switch into Bisharp (it cannot hard switch into Dragonite and Weavile either) but it easily forces it out to get free setup or just throw out an attack. Bisharp also usually wants to use Knock Off which Terrakion can just kinda abuse with Justified. You lose your item, sure, but you basically get an guarenteed kill.
Zama isnt supposed to switch into Terrakion in first place. But it's not in OU right now so let's leave that. Other than that I agree with you. Maybe not B+ for now. But B since I do believe it's on par with mons on B for effectiveness in their roles
 

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