Resource SS OU DLC2 Viability Ranking Thread [SEE: Page 105, Post 2618]

MrAldo

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Dragapult is definitively S rank. This pokemon is incredible, really versatile and capable of running a multitude of sets capable of disposing of its checks and you really gotta be really wary of all the possibilities. It is just so fast and effective that can easily dictate the pacing of the game on its own since it is also a really efficient pivot too. It is extremely good and easily one step ahead of everything on its current rank even, naturally anti offense and really adaptable versus any playstyle and really splashable on pretty much any playstyle cause of the speedtier + typing (you can easily do some semi-stall with it if you try hard enough tbh). Definitely S Rank, really dominant force in the metagame.

Volcarona and Weavile can definitely rise to A rank. Both great mons that are really threatening, one cause of a busted setup move in quiver dance that can get extremely ugly without a heatran or dragonite so you gotta be extremely wary of it and flame body is always fun, and weavile is a really fast and latent threat that can run SD and has some great coverage to make it really something to consider, stab knock off is always nice and the ice typing offensively really puts a dent on a lot of teams. Some stuff can kind of stop on its tracks but it does liberating to use a mon that is so fast and can pose a threat at any point in the game. Rise Urshifu-Rapid-Strike while at it, very similar in context to these 2. A Rank too!

Cant really say much for the rest of the slate, gotta see them through again, but I will to talk about Terrakion. Terrakion is surprisingly good, but in a weird way. Fighting types that are effective in this metagame are extremely rare right now cause many of the pokemon available on the top ranks naturally check one of the good available ones in Urshifu, but with terrak you have a mon that tanks to its rock typing it can really pose a threat to pretty much all of them. Rock STAB mean none of the natural fight checks that can handle shifu offensively really cant do that here and the overall good speed just below kart (annoying I know) means it can have plenty of opportunity to do its thing.

It is hard to explain cause it is definitely pretty prediction reliant with CB, and SD can be pretty hard to pull off in practice but offensive fighting type neutral to flying, good bulk and ok heatran check that has a STAB move to punish many fight switch-ins plus good speed? pretty good, everything I mention is rather ideal but it does feel better than something like hawlucha or buzzwole or suicune in my eyes. Id raise it to B, anything else just doesnt feel realistic tbh.

Have a nice day everyone.
 
:heatran: A+ -> S

Why? Heatran is a Pokémon you have to prepare for, it is impossible to have any team that does not deal with Heatran either defensively with pokemon such as gastrodon, or eq tyranitar or offensively with hazards and pressure. Heatran's Magma storm threatens every pokemon in the tier with chip, and is only checked by itself and a few other pokemon. But aren't ground types the biggest fear of heatran, well they are but it can manage around that with magma storm + toxic heavily crippling almost every ground type that wants to come in such as landorus-t, garchomp, hippowdown, and other pokemon such as dragonite, slowking, slowking-g, and swampert. Every water type gets pressured by toxic and is no longer a long term check that can consistently come in over a period of a game especially with hazards, knock, and magma storm. Even Pokémon such as slowking, SpD toxapex, SpD Tyranitar, and blissey just get taunted and in addition with magma storm damage, and toxic it easily allows Heatran to break those Pokémon and open holes for its teammates such as Quiver Dance volcarona, CB weavile, CB victini, that appreciate water types being weakened or removed. Heatran is also very good defensively being able to check pokemon such as volcarona, eating up victini's V-Create, Eating up Dragapult's will-o-wisp, resisting the dual stabs of tapu lele and more. It is not only an offensive behemoth that pretty much has a way to break through every Pokémon, it can also stand in the way of some and prevent their progress and take advantage of those turns to fire of brutally powerful magma storms.
 
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Lily

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:ss/dragapult:
Seeing a lot of takes that Dragapult belongs in S- rather than S - admittedly I'm just skimming this thread as I usually do but I don't really get why people don't rate it as by far the best and most broken mon in OU. It is absolutely unparalleled, better than Heatran, better than Landorus and Garchomp, nothing comes remotely close to the sheer ridiculousness of Dragapult and it's showing on the ladder, in WCoP qualifiers and in other various tournaments and facets of the metagame.

I don't think I need to regurgitate the arguments that others have put here about how dominant the Specs set is or how its few answers are immensely exploitable, or about how it compresses the immensely important roles of incredible speed control and incredible wallbreaking into one slot. I think it should simply be noted that there is absolutely no bad time to have a Dragapult on your team; even if you run into nightmare matchups featuring some unholy shit like Mandibuzz + Blissey, it is an immensely powerful positioning tool for some of the most devastating threats in the metagame like Tapu Koko, Kartana, and Bisharp. Not to mention how it just bowls over offense including any team that has the nerve to use a Dark-type that isn't Mandibuzz (Weavile and Bisharp, two incredible common offensive Dark-types, are both 2HKOed after rocks or are incredibly close to it on top of having to play awkward 50/50s with their priority moves afterwards).

This thing just pairs way too well with the entire meta and exploits way too much to be anything that isn't S rank. Its shortcomings are so, so minor relative to its immense impact on the metagame and it should rise to S at the very least, if not banned outright.


One other thing I wanted to mention:
:ss/tapu koko: :ss/zeraora:
I find both of these to be incredibly dominant and they really prey on the fact that the best checks to them, Landorus-T / Garchomp (in Zera's case at least) are super lacking in recovery and are immensely crippled by Knock Off from Zera or just don't take Koko's DGleam w/ Rocks up that well to begin with. They also have great defensive utility (moreso Koko) checking stuff like Torn and Zera has the incredibly, impossible-to-understate distinction of being the only viable Pokemon that is both faster than Dragapult and also capable of OHKOing it. I think discussion should be generated on these two rising to A+, it may be a hot take but I see them as incredibly definitive parts of the metagame, right up there with the likes of Tornadus, Toxapex and Ferrothorn.
 
Haven't really looked at these rankings in awhile mostly cause I just watch/play games and kind of see what's good what isn't and due to lack of interest in forum lately, but I was talking with some people on discord which kind of got me interested again.

My personal S rank would probably be Dragapult, Lando, Garchomp which Pult has been covered, I'm bias for Chomp admittedly it has its moments where other mons are better, and Lando is very versatile in the builder and is the better Zeraora check among other things. Clones nom of Slowking to S kind of got brushed over and granted doesnt matter to me where stuff is placed these days but I would probably consider it. Future Sight is broken (tbh this should be looked at way before Dragapult imo, the move itself) but Slowking has the benefit of being able to soak a lot of hits and fire one off or just Teleport to gain momentum back. Very good support mon the only reason why its "better" than Slowbro and G-Slowking is because it can come in on things like Tapu Lele, Kyurem, and a few specific mons and do this in comparison to its bros. I think their access to Future Sight + Regen alone should leave them in the higher subrank than other stuff, there's not a need to be creative in this format as you can load Future Sight balance and have an advantage against most other builds at worst an even matchup.

Loosely speaking I would drop Ferrothorn, Hydreigon, Pex, Hippo, Nidoking and raise Rilla, Blissey, Slowbro, GKing, Volcarona, Weavile, Ursh. I think the formers have gotten worse and the latter have gotten better or more relevant for different reasons. Blissey isnt even that great but it stops thing like Dragapult from spamming Shadow Ball for free and can qualify as a check to this set unlike other things that people advertise like SpDef Hippo, which does nothing back and forfeits all momentum at least Blissey can teleport. I think A subrank is always going to be the most subjective based on builder and player tendencies so you guys can figure out what fits right but thats just me. I agree with Lilburrs stuff above granted without saying it she explained how Torn has gotten worse :eyes:

A lot of the B ranks like normal is a mix bag of good stuff and hyped stuff that isnt really good but I would move Blacephelon up for similar reason why Dragapult is a pain in the ass in the builder. Its actually a slight illusion of Dragapult being really strong with the Specs set which stems from the fact most of the Ghost resists are very passive or just bad in general and with no Pursuit in the format it just complicates the issue. A lot of the teams that have issues with Dragapult will probably have issues with the clown as well the only difference is that Blace trades power for speed so you have a couple of better counterplays between Blaces speed tier and Dragapults. It's also rocks weak but like Corviknight exists so lol.

Once you hit B- and below idk what is going on. Like G-Weezing is looked at a meme mon but better than Latios, G-Zap just needs Future Sight + Band to rip stuff in half, Cloyster better than half the B ranks cause King's Rock stops the defensive countermeasures half the time, Zarude isn't even as bad as Moltres is, Buzzwole is better now, it's a mess and I would be surprised if more than 50 people that play OU out of the thousands of players and games played every month have even used half of these to justify on a build. The ranks could probably use a big clean up to accept the fact that some of these low rank mons work on specific builds but not part of the bigger metagame. Maybe once Finch finishes up his 50 other duties someone can help him put this together so he can finally take a 40 minute nap lmao.
 
Imagine a Pokemon that's almost twice as fast as your average OU Pokemon, whose primary switch-ins are Blissey and Toxapex. That Pokemon is Dragapult.

Dragapult is borderline broken at a bare minimum. Its speed tier is completely unfair, and that plus its nearly unresisted STAB Ghost type move + U-Turn means that it essentially always has at least one free, low risk move to click, making it incredibly difficult to pressure. In the OU Room, there was a mildly heated discussion the other day about whether Mandibuzz was one of the worst Pokemon in OU, where the opponents to Mandibuzz pointed out that it wasn't even a reliable check to the one thing that it's supposed to beat, Dragapult, given that the bare minimum of chip (u-turn, rocks if it got knocked) is necessary for Dragapult to beat Mandibuzz by Draco Meteoring. I think this speaks less about the effectiveness of Mandibuzz and more of the power of Dragapult. It's one of those Pokemon that turns every game into "what 1 or 2 mons do I need to weaken a bit for this to win?" because it is such a problem in the late game, given that it beats most things by default just by being faster. I cannot stress how ridiculous this thing's speed + typing + bulk is. It is a late game cleaner that basically always has the ability to trade favorably, and always has the option to pivot out, because what the hell is stopping you? The 1* viable scarfer in the tier? And all of that only assumes that you're running the standard Specs set with no variation. Dragapult is very stupid, I hate this thing. pls nerf S tier.

*(im exaggerating, but still)
 
This is my first nom ever so please go easy on me :(

Cloyster C -> at least B

Yeah this mon is absurd. I used to be on the banning KR is stupid side but after using cloy on hyper offense it truly is one of most brain dead mons in the tier. After just a single Shell Smash, Cloyster can rip apart almost every team with just a little hax. Cloyster has ample opportunity to set up on tier staples such as Lando-T and Corviknight thanks to its natural base 180 defense, and from there it’s just a matter of flinch hax. The only mons that can really check it are the slowtwins, pex, and heatran, which all go down to one flinch. Cloy also has the added bonus of being a set up sweeper that doesn’t lose to Rillaboom, thanks to Ice Shard. The weakness to rocks suck, but proper team support can alleviate that. Overall, I think Cloy in C is a crime and I’m glad people are finally catching on to how good it is.

P.S: Ban Kings Rock.
 
:quagsire: to b-/b: even though quagsire fits only on stall, it works really great on that archetype, as it is capable of stuffing or heavily impeding so many otherwise terrifying setup sweepers and breakers like garchomp,SD weavile,bisharp,unaware CM clef,volc,cloyster(unless you get haxed, but still), azumarill, dd dragonite,lucha... while also being one of the better checks the archetype has to heatran. Honestly seeing it ranked lower than some other bulky waters like gastro,suicune and primarina is quite unfair to quaggy boy, and the only reason I'm not straight up nomming it for b is that stall is a good, but not the strongest archetype rn and it doesn't really fit on other archetypes, but for stall it's quite the staple mon
 

Finchinator

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We are working on a mini-update in order to clean up the A and S ranks, so I am going to lock this as we work on this slate. We are going to have a larger slate a little further down the road which captures everything, including fixing the C ranks, which some have been discussing recently, and everything else in-between.
 

Finchinator

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Here is the most recent update, which is intended to update the entirety of the S and A ranks! We will have a full update coming again in a few weeks.

Rises
  • :Dragapult: from A+ to S: Unsurprisingly, the Pokemon that fulfills the role of revenge killer, special breaker, offensive pivot, and status spreader with potential to also function as a sweeper finds its way on to many teams. Everyone's favorite Dragon type has quickly darted back up to the level of viability it had during DLC1 as one of the best Pokemon around. When paired with a trainer that has mastered the in-game fishing rod mini-game, it is especially potent as it can even Shadow Ball past a specially defensive Clefable and Toxapex. However, Dragapult's effectiveness is not limited to mere fishing for drops. Quite on the contrary, Dragapult provides a unique offensive presence that helps balance and bulky offensive teams alike with the Choice Specs and Hex variants. In a metagame where dedicated speed control has become a staple, Choice Scarf users are limited, and there are only a handful of genuinely effective fast options, Dragapult finds itself as the most effective and common Pokemon for the job. Dragapult is one of the few Pokemon that is able to define the metagame, warping metagame trends to reflect its increased viability with the rise of Dark types on offense. Overall, Dragapult is one of the most viable Pokemon in the tier and this rise reflects that.
  • :Slowking: from A+ to S: Slowking was UU in GSC, UU in ADV, NU in DPP, RU in BW, RU in ORAS, NU in SM, and... S rank in OU in SS. With the departure of Pursuit and change of Teleport's effect, Slowking has made one of the most unlikely intergenerational improvements in tiering and viability in the history of competitive Pokemon. Slowking is a respectable defensive presence that matches-up well with Heatran, Nidoking, Tapu Lele, and Urshifu-Rapid as is, but Teleport allows it to stomach a hit or two from virtually any opposing Pokemon lacking a super effective STAB and get in a less durable teammate that will instantly be positioned to make some progress. This coupled with the potential of preceding this pivoting with Future Sight, which can negate defensive counterplay from the opponent, makes Slowking one of the most effective Pokemon in the metagame. Unlike other walls, Slowking is able to avoid passivity due to being a pivot, threatening Scald burns, and the looming threat of Future Sight. Unlike other pivots, Slowking has a good defensive outlook and it is a practical option in the metagame as is. Overall, Slowking is one of the most common and consistent Pokemon in the tier, distancing itself from Slowbro in recent months due to it covering more in the teambuilder as it stands.
  • :Zeraora: from A to A+: In a metagame where speed control is limited and Electric immunities are a must, Zeraora finds itself as a convenient option. While a slew of Pokemon check or counter Zeraora, it is able to outlast many of these options due to its underspoken longevity. Heavy Duty Boots allow for repeated entry when paired with slower pivots, Knock Off makes it so that damage on foes lacking recovery is there to stay -- this applies especially to Landorus-T and Garchomp, and Volt Switch allows for chip to wrack up on non-immune foes as Zeraora exits before taking damage itself. Ultimately, Zeraora is the ultimate gameflow Pokemon that doubles as a revenge killer and Electric immunity, which makes it very appealing. Teams are finding it to be more and more practical, therefore leading to an uptick in usage and viability.
  • :Bisharp: and :Weavile: from A- to A: The metagame may be in a dark place right now, unfortunately. Bisharp and Weavile continue their rise to prominance as they peak once more, surfacing in A rank this time. Both Bisharp and Weavile pose major threats to balance teams with limited pools of checks and counters thanks to great STABs and strong attacking stats. It is worth noting that they provide Ghost resistances and also are able to clobber now S rank options Dragapult and Slowking with their Dark STABs, too. Perhaps these two are caught in the perfect storm that let their viability continuously increase, but perhaps they are here to stay as the duo torments the tier.
  • :Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: from A- to A: Urshifu-Rapid finds itself seeing more and more usage as time elapses. It is able to check the aforementioned Dark types and very few things are able to wall it with the support of entry hazards or Future Sight. Surging Strike and Close Combat both are very strong, U-turn gives it the ability to pivot out of tougher situations, and Aqua Jet allows for revenge killing of Excadrill in Sand or Volcarona. Overall, Urshifu-Rapid is a promising Pokemon that keeps getting better as a direct or indirect result of metagame trends.
  • :Volcarona: from A- to A: Not sure how the most broken Pokemon in the metagame was ever in A-, so let's fix that!
  • :Blissey: from B+ to A-: Blissey is a Pokemon that is very easy to abuse, but despite that it is still quite a good option. It is a blanket check to fragile special attackers that has utility options and can pivot to less durable teammates. This unique niche is more than enough to help solidify Blissey as an A- tier Pokemon in OU right now.
Drops
  • :Toxapex: from A+ to A: In a world where Slowking is rising from A+ to S, it appears the bane of Gilbert Gottfried's existence is trending in the exact opposite direction. Toxapex is, and will continue to be, a timeless OU Pokemon going back to last generation. With this said, the metagame is very well equipped for it right now. Slowbro and Slowking are able to minimize it by swapping in, setting a Future Sight, and letting another Pokemon enter unscathed. Ground and Electric types are both very effective offensively right now. Magma Storm Heatran, Calm Mind + Thunder(bolt) Clefable, and Kyurem are all as good as ever. Toxapex was once one of the absolute best Pokemon, but then people put more emphasis on abusing it in teambuilding, so now it is a lot less consistent and walls fewer Pokemon.
  • :Tornadus-Therian: from A+ to A: Rumor has it that I lost a ladder game to a Hurricane miss about a half hour ago; the rest is history. Jokes aside, Tornadus-Therian's unreliability highlights a sweeping sentiment of hesitance towards relying on it as an offensive option. Hurricane, Focus Blast, and even the rare Heat Wave find themselves missing far too often for Tornadus-Therian's Nasty Plot set to become a mainstay. The utility sets are still viable, oftentimes being less reliant on Hurricane's accuracy in a pinch. However, there are various other Defog users that are effective, including huge competitor Corviknight. Because of this, Tornadus-T is less common and less viable for the time being.
  • :Ferrothorn: from A+ to A: Facing more competition in the Spikes department from Skarmory, which is now a consistent A- tier Pokemon, and struggling to find its way on to teams due to a growing pool of strong Steel types such as Corviknight, Heatran, Excadrill, the aforementioned Skarmory, Melmetal, Bisharp, Kartana, and Magnezone, Ferrothorn struggles to find its way on to as many teams as it once did. Ferrothorn also struggles against Zapdos, which is now running Heat Wave frequently, and Corviknight, which can outlast it and easily Defog in its face.
  • :Hydreigon: from A to A-: Checking Heatran and resisting Ghost type moves can only go so far. Hydreigon's dynamic special attacking presence is helpful, but it is limited due to an average speed tier and the abundance of Fairy types and revenge killers that take it out. This coupled with there being less room for it to fit on to balance teams leaves us with a bit less room for Hydreigon to be used or viable right now.
  • :Hippowdon: from A- to B+: Hippowdon struggles to maintain a presence in a tier with many potent Ground types that do not struggle with passivity or common Defoggers. Sand is a practical tool that may set the tempo for an entire team, but with Tyranitar still being viable, Hippowdon is incapable of distinguishing itself enough to warrant placement in the A ranks right now.
  • :Mandibuzz: from A- to B+: Mandibuzz faces stiff competition and struggles with the abundance of status and Knock Off in the tier. With Landorus-T, Hippowdon, and Heatran being able to cripple this Defogger, Mandibuzz's presence is oftentimes a shortlived one, which is not good for something you would use to combat Pokemon like Dragapult, which tend to be around late game. Mandibuzz structures are still around, but they are far less common than earlier this generation.
  • :Nidoking: from A- to B+: Nidoking is uncapable of checking anything of note besides Tapu Koko and Clefable, making it an almost purely offensive option. Unfortunately, it lacks the speed tier or OHKO power to fulfill this niche without support. While it can be very effective with the right support, this is still not enough to warrant usage of it on many different archetypes or even consistent usage on the archetypes it does work on.
  • :Tapu Fini: from A- to B+: When is the last time someone woke up and said "oh yeah I want to use Tapu Fini today, let's get it"? Like legit, I do not think this has ever happened. I think that about sums it up. Good night.
:blobwizard:
 

Arishem

October 31st… When again
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Glad to see that the VR is back. Anyway, here are some thoughts that me and notsotryharding33 put together. Enjoy!

B to A-
Despite the effectiveness from the presence of other bulky waters like, Toxapex, Swampert, Tapu Fini, and the slow twins, I firmly believe that Gastrodon strongly holds a place in the metagame. Gastrodon might sound weird but it’s really not. Storm Drain, Recover, Clear Smog, and substantial special defense grants it with great traits over the other. It’s even able to check pokemon like Rotom-Wash, Non G-Drain Volc, Aegislash, Melmetal, Tapu Koko, Nidoking and Zeraoara. The uptick in Rillaboom, and Kyurem as well as strong Knock Off abusers slightly hurt it but nonetheless the gelatinous little sea slug is still quite potent.


B to to A-
Victini is a great pivot. No Cinderace means there’s no mon that can do the whole HDB hit and run technique better overall. In a meta where Slowking is a lot more potent than Slowbro is beneficial, and overall special walls rising in general are gonna help out Tini in the long-run. Victini is adept at contemplating danger via the abuse of Future Sight. Victini is able to break through annoying regen or Lando/Toxapex cores too pretty nicely due to this. Also worth mentioning that Victini has tons of coverage moves: Glaciate, Energy Ball, Focus Blast, Thunder, and Scorching Sands are all worth noting. Victini can ultimately pick it’s checks and counters. Glaciate can remove things like Garchomp/Dragonite, Energy Ball nukes Gastro and Swampert, Focus Blast punishes Tyranitar, and Sands can be used for Tran, while also punishing aggresive switch-ins. Overall I find Victini to be a very versatile pivot in the metagame that is able to soften a lot of checks w/ FS with the abundance of tools it has in it’s arsenal.

B to B+
Rotom-Wash is a superb pivot and more than a washing machine lol…It’s admittedly fallen off a bit this generation but it’s still picking up. A pokemon that can counter top tier threats like Tornadus, Heatran, Landorus, and Garchomp is significant for a mon like this. Being able to bait out pokemon like Rillaboom and burn them via Will-O-Wisp and pivot on pokemon like Kyurem to get in something safely brings a lot to teams. I feel as if Rotom-Wash’s utility and uses should give it a mark in B+


C+ to B-
Even though the meta hates it, I feel as if the clown actually has one niche. Beast Boost + Insane 151 base special attack. And slightly something has impressed at the least, the declining usage and viability of Tyranitar. More and more people are complaining that Blacephalon is a major threat to teams and that there are still not many switch-ins that can take it on. Only a slight raise here since Blacephalon still has competition between other ghosts, poor bulk, and issues with coming on rocks; etc. But I must say that this subtle niche is enough for Blacehpalon to rise out of the C ranks.

C+ to B-
Nice role compression in being able to be a rocker, and Lele check in one. Small uptick in Jirachi due to certain meta trends, and after the Cinderace and Magearna. The scarf set provides utility with Trick and Healing Wish which dismantles checks like Corviknight, Heatran, and Slowking, and Healing Wish which is great for allowing a teammate like Urshifu to get a second chance at breaking the opponent's team.
Very slight rise here, since Jirachi is still very passive, hard to fit, and not viable and still a weak option.

B- to B
Rock is starting to be a very strong type in the metagame, with the lack of resistances. Hippowdon isn’t even that common, and so many more specially defensive pokemon are potent in the upcoming meta trends. From the stance of being a fighting type, Terrakion currently faces competition with Urshifu-Rapid-Strike, and Galarian Zapdos. A niche in being an abuser of Swords Dance, dark type moves, and a higher speed tier that merits outpacing threats like Garchomp, Volcarona, and Hydreigon. The offensive meta and a couple of defensive pokemon like Lando are the main things really holding it back, in addition to Rillaboom’s sky-high presence. In terms of it’s presence as a breaker however, Terrakion isn’t that bad. It can abuse FS, and it can also use Megahorn to hit pokemon like the Slowtwins and Tangrowth. Overall Terrakion is starting to find somewhat of a place in OU as a rock type breaker.

B+ to B-
Nidoking has fallen off the charts. It’s outclassed by breakers like Kyurem, Lele, and Dragapult, and the niche of breaking Pex/Mag cores (when Mag was in the game), is gone. Nidoking ultimately strains to find a solid point in the metagame as Slowking continues to rise and it is in a tricky speed w/ a speed tier of 85 leaving it vulnerable to other threats like Rillaboom, Landorus-Therian, Ushifu-Rapid Strike, Excadrill, and Hydreigon and overall the niche of it is lost. We are also seeing a rise and uptick and Gastrodon as well which is a solid check to it. One niche I guess is being able to reliably beat Toxapex and check most variants of Tapu Koko. But other than that Nidoking is pretty fragile, not fast enough, hurt by the offensive meta and outclassed by bigger threats as well as held back by the rise of Slowking. Ultimately Nidoking should find a spot in B- as a result of this.
 
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Finchinator

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A to A-
Also a very slight drop. Mainly the presence of Corviknight as a more reliable defogger and the fact that Kyurem is very very detrimental to the presence of Zapdos and pokemon like CM Clef, and Taunt Heatran are able to invalidate greatly hurt Zapdos rn. Zapdos' main niche as a defogger other than checking Rillaboom, and Kartana is ruined, and it does suffer a lot in terms of a pokemon compared to Corviknight and others. Overall I think Zapdos should drop from A to A-

A- to B+ (or lower)
Mandibuzz has almost fully lost it’s niche as a defogger other than being a way of reliably checking Ghost and Psychic type pokemon. Just like Zapdos the presence of Corviknights viability hurts it, and in the efforts in trying to attempt to check pokemon it can be really passive. Mandibuzz heavily relies on it’s boots as well as it can easily be worn down. As long as breakers in Lele and Kyurem rise and the bulkier meta deems as a way of countering it, As a result of these changes, I think Mandibuzz should stay out of the A Ranks until something better comes along.
For what it's worth, Zapdos is currently A- and Mandibuzz just fell from A- to B+. Either way, thanks for contributing to discussion, but just wanted to make sure that was known (and it is reflected in the OP as such, too).
 

Ruft

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Glad to see that the VR is back. Anyway, here are some thoughts that me and notsotryharding33 put together. Enjoy!

B to A-
Despite the effectiveness from the presence of other bulky waters like, Toxapex, Swampert, Tapu Fini, and the slow twins, I firmly believe that Gastrodon strongly holds a place in the metagame. Gastrodon might sound weird but it’s really not. Storm Drain, Recover, Clear Smog, and substantial special defense grants it with great traits over the other. It’s even able to check pokemon like Rotom-Wash, Non G-Drain Volc, Aegislash, Melmetal, Tapu Koko, Nidoking and Zeraoara. The uptick in Rillaboom, and Kyurem as well as strong Knock Off abusers slightly hurt it but nonetheless the gelatinous little sea slug is still quite potent.


B to to A-
Victini is a great pivot. No Cinderace means there’s no mon that can do the whole HDB hit and run technique better overall. In a meta where Slowking is a lot more potent than Slowbro is beneficial, and overall special walls rising in general are gonna help out Tini in the long-run. Victini is adept at contemplating danger via the abuse of Future Sight. Victini is able to break through annoying regen or Lando/Toxapex cores too pretty nicely due to this. Also worth mentioning that Victini has tons of coverage moves: Glaciate, Energy Ball, Focus Blast, Thunder, and Scorching Sands are all worth noting. Victini can ultimately pick it’s checks and counters. Glaciate can remove things like Garchomp/Dragonite, Energy Ball nukes Gastro and Swampert, Focus Blast punishes Tyranitar, and Sands can be used for Tran, while also punishing aggresive switch-ins. Overall I find Victini to be a very versatile pivot in the metagame that is able to soften a lot of checks w/ FS with the abundance of tools it has in it’s arsenal.

B to B+
Rotom-Wash is a superb pivot and more than a washing machine lol…It’s admittedly fallen off a bit this generation but it’s still picking up. A pokemon that can counter top tier threats like Tornadus, Heatran, Landorus, and Garchomp is significant for a mon like this. Being able to bait out pokemon like Rillaboom and burn them via Will-O-Wisp and pivot on pokemon like Kyurem to get in something safely brings a lot to teams. I feel as if Rotom-Wash’s utility and uses should give it a mark in B+


C+ to B-
Even though the meta hates it, I feel as if the clown actually has one niche. Beast Boost + Insane 151 base special attack. And slightly something has impressed at the least, the declining usage and viability of Tyranitar. More and more people are complaining that Blacephalon is a major threat to teams and that there are still not many switch-ins that can take it on. Only a slight raise here since Blacephalon still has competition between other ghosts, poor bulk, and issues with coming on rocks; etc. But I must say that this subtle niche is enough for Blacehpalon to rise out of the C ranks.

C+ to B-
Nice role compression in being able to be a rocker, and Lele check in one. Small uptick in Jirachi due to certain meta trends, and after the Cinderace and Magearna. The scarf set provides utility with Trick and Healing Wish which dismantles checks like Corviknight, Heatran, and Slowking, and Healing Wish which is great for allowing a teammate like Urshifu to get a second chance at breaking the opponent's team.
Very slight rise here, since Jirachi is still very passive, hard to fit, and not viable and still a weak option.

B- to B
Rock is starting to be a very strong type in the metagame, with the lack of resistances. Hippowdon isn’t even that common, and so many more specially defensive pokemon are potent in the upcoming meta trends. From the stance of being a fighting type, Terrakion currently faces competition with Urshifu-Rapid-Strike, and Galarian Zapdos. A niche in being an abuser of Swords Dance, dark type moves, and a higher speed tier that merits outpacing threats like Garchomp, Volcarona, and Hydreigon. The offensive meta and a couple of defensive pokemon like Lando are the main things really holding it back, in addition to Rillaboom’s sky-high presence. In terms of it’s presence as a breaker however, Terrakion isn’t that bad. It can abuse FS, and it can also use Megahorn to hit pokemon like the Slowtwins and Tangrowth. Overall Terrakion is starting to find somewhat of a place in OU as a rock type breaker.

B+ to B-
Nidoking has fallen off the charts. It’s outclassed by breakers like Kyurem, Lele, and Dragapult, and the niche of breaking Pex/Mag cores (when Mag was in the game), is gone. Nidoking ultimately strains to find a solid point in the metagame as Slowking continues to rise and it is in a tricky speed w/ a speed tier of 85 leaving it vulnerable to other threats like Rillaboom, Landorus-Therian, Ushifu-Rapid Strike, Excadrill, and Hydreigon and overall the niche of it is lost. We are also seeing a rise and uptick and Gastrodon as well which is a solid check to it. One niche I guess is being able to reliably beat Toxapex and check most variants of Tapu Koko. But other than that Nidoking is pretty fragile, not fast enough, hurt by the offensive meta and outclassed by bigger threats as well as held back by the rise of Slowking. Ultimately Nidoking should find a spot in B- as a result of this.
You should pay some more attention to the current ranking of these Pokemon. (Rotom-W is already B+, Blacephalon is already B-, Terrakion is C+.)
 
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Glastrier from C+ to C

I actually really like this mon but you need a compelling reason to be using it over Mamoswine on non-TR teams and accordingly I don't think they should share a rank. Mamoswine offers Thick Fat or Oblivious (ignores intimidate), a much better speed tier, electric immunity, priority, STAB earthquake, and rocks. I have used Glastrier quite a bit and you constantly wish you had a different set. If you are running Sub SD, you're probably not running Close Combat, which is arguably a main differentiator with Mamoswine (though mamo gets Superpower). SD 3 attacks can get a kill, but you're most likely going to get revenge killed. Also consider that Sub Kyurem does much the same you want Glastrier to do, whether it is Freeze Dry EP or even a Dragon Dance set. I haven't even mentioned hazards yet because you're gonna want boots but you also want leftovers with a sub set. Choiced sets are completely outclassed by Mamo. That's not to say this mon can't work and snowball your opponent with Moxie + its crazy bulk but when you look at the rest of C+ you can see ice horse is the odd one out.
Wait glastrier is still ranked? What the hell? Also why stop at C? From what I've seen, it's only really useful on trick room teams and TR teams arent really doing really well. It's a niche mon in a niche playstyle that I feel like wants more mons than Glastrier. It's not a TR staple so I'd say go lower. C- feels more in line with Glastrier than C
 
dont have much to add since the vr looks very fresh so i guess ill write my "own" noms?

(moistshifu the GOAT urshifu-r abbreviation) A to A+

ox made a good post in the meta discussion thread outlining why it should be moved up, over time moistshifu built itself up to become an extreme threat (especially with fs support or the latter) being consistently accounted for in the teambuilder and claims games if not played properly with your checks- future sight removing default banded urshr checks such as toxapex is a testament to this. on future sight teams with breakers which are transfigurating the metagame's BO builds consistently, the many offensive tools that are available on these BO builds are just augmentations of making the pokemon tougher to handle in-battle.

A to A+

not sure how this is a rank lets fix that. at some point discussions have been sparking about a potential volc suspect test on the charts and players voiced thoughts about it warping the metagame around its head. teambuilding options for a heatran lure / check are a slappable option around universally every volc set considering the only relevant ones in the meta are fat and aoa 3 atks volc. some teams have considered rock coverage or heatran has fit stone edge as an option to stop volc in its tracks. the pressure / "force" added to teambuilding is a reason why i would definitely vouch for A+.
 
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:volcarona: to A+ I agree with everything t04ster said abt volcarona, it’s meta defining and an amazing late game sweeper def deserves a raise

:rotom-wash: to A- rotom wash is a amazing defensive pivot that can check a lot of mons in the current metagame and has access to levitate, utility moves like WoW meaning breakers like kart or Rilla can’t come in on it and ability to Defog, I think rotom w deserves a raise also access to water moves scare out grounds meaning it technically has a unblockable volt switch

:urshifu: to A+ prob my favorite breaker to abuse rn, this mon is incredible a lot of good posts like Ox’s post and T04ster made great posts abt urshifu and IMO I agree with them, this mon should rise to A+

:slowking-galar: to A- yeah sure slowking is better but I think glowking deserves a raise, it’s a really great sponge in a lot of teams and it checks a lot of mons like kyurem, heatran, koko, slowtwins, fini, clef, zone in 1 slot and access to future sight and amazing coverage moves means it’s super hard to switch in into, lots of wcop replays show glowkings success, lots of teams struggle vs glowking since they pretty much forgot it existed.

not sure how to feel abt slowking in S rank also
Pls fix the C ranks btw
 
:urshifu: to A+ prob my favorite breaker to abuse rn, this mon is incredible a lot of good posts like Ox’s post and T04ster made great posts abt urshifu and IMO I agree with them, this mon should rise to A+

Ehh, I'm a bit hesitant on Urshifu-R moving up to A+. I've tried using band Urshifu in the current meta and find that there are a few too many situations where Urshifu-R is essentially playing Russian roulette when clicking one of its STABs. Against a team using, say, Ferrothorn and Zapdos, using either one of your STABs puts you at risk of either getting paralyzed or losing 50% of your health. Even clicking U-Turn isn't risk free either since the contact effects of Static / Iron Barbs / Rocky Helment will still apply. On the ladder at least, I've also been seeing a bit of an uptick in Slowbro usage too, which hurts it.

It could be argued that Future Sight support greatly mitagates this issue, which is fair. However, this still imposes some restrictions on teambuilding. Slowking is a great mon, but I don't want to use it every on Urshifu-R team I make, especially since it has overlapping weakesses to Electric and Grass. Slowking-Galar has a bit better defensive synergy, but it also has some difficult overlapping MUs with Urshifu and can't even bring it in safely with Teleport. Something else worth noting is that none of the other S- and A+ rank Pokemon require Future Sight support to fufill their role like Urshifu does (it certainly helps, but isn't necessary).

Protective Pads Shifu might be A+ tho.
:slowking-galar: to A- yeah sure slowking is better but I think glowking deserves a raise, it’s a really great sponge in a lot of teams and it checks a lot of mons like kyurem, heatran, koko, slowtwins, fini, clef, zone in 1 slot and access to future sight and amazing coverage moves means it’s super hard to switch in into, lots of wcop replays show glowkings success, lots of teams struggle vs glowking since they pretty much forgot it existed.
Agree with this nom. Slowking-Galar has some pretty hard MUs vs some of the top tier mons like Heatran, but its unique defensive typing and ridiculous bulk with Assault Vest make it a worthy alternative to Slowking-K on certain teams. While its not the best check to Tornadus, Tapu Lele, Kyurem, etc. it makes them much easier to deal with when used with more reliable checks like Zeraora and Scizor
 
:(zapdos-galar): C+ -> B/B+ :
Gapdos is an amazing lead rn.imo its the most viable of all the fighting types in current ou. With the surge in usage and viability of the likes of hydreigon,corviknight,skarmory,kyurem,heatran,bliss,etc.it can also punish intimidate users like landot thanks to defiant while pressures opponent to use defog.its STAB combos r unresisted letting it break through even the likes of tapu fini and clef if switched in the wrong move(aka brave bird).one thing that seperates it from other fighting types (except urshifu) is its acces to u turn which makes it even more annoying to deal with.most teams would be unprepared for it as even some of the most common physical walls don't like to switch into it. Imo gaodos's biggest flaw is that it doesn't have longevity but it definitely puts enough pressure at its opponent and takes out 1 or 2 mons at least. Its much better than blaziken and deserves a rise to at least mid B. Thank you for ur time.
This is one of the noms i wanna echo tho only till Mid B rather than B+. Gapdos is hard to fit and lacks longetivity ( same issue as blaziken) but it has its merits, notably breaking past corvi,clef and ferro easily as well as punishing mons like rilla, hydreigon and kyurem. It also have niches over lucha as it's more of a all out attacker than a setup sweeper who doesn't needs terrain and setup to maximize it's potential. Its access to u turn means it can pivot easily as well. I think it needs a raise to mid B rank rn.

:Slowking:S -> A+/A:
Why this mon rose to S but garchomp didn't which is much more of a threat and meta defining rn. S rank was a stretch imo when it has a bad MU against the dragapult, kyurem and hydreigon which are some of the prominent special wallbreakers/sweepers. It also tends to be a rillaboom fodder which is scary as hell.Its still good but it definitely doesn't fit with pult and landot while being higher than chomp,clef and tran who are much more meta defining imo.

:Zeraora: A+ -> A:
Yet another rise I disagree with and feel is rather uneccesory. Landot,rilla and chomp are few of the most meta defining mon and it sucks against that. Beiy able to pivot mindlessly and revenge killing pult and other threats is good but it's really hard to use and often has to drop notable MUs. Its not really as splashable as any of the mons in A+ rank either. A feels much more appropriate atm.

:Rillaboom: A -> A+:
Rillaboom is the mvp of so many matches in my team. Its pretty self explanatory but I'll try to explain it further: rilla is also on the radar for a considersble amount of players, while I don't think it's broken, it definitely says that this pokemon is one of the top tier threats. Look at S to A- rank pokemon and count the amount of matchups it's good at. It also revenge kills a large portion of these as banded grassy glide still deals shit ton to mons they even resist it like pult, who takes over 50% from banded grassy glide or lucha, while straightup ohkoing the frailer ones like weavile (ice shard doesn't ohko and it could act as a lure as it's bulk isn't too shabby either). Also provides recovery to mons like tran and clef who appreciate the grassy terrain recovery alot.
 
Well if you’re going to say this, you might as well take it a step further and explain what you would like fixed. This is an initiative I am following for next update for sure and I already have some ideas, but I would love if you (or other posters!!!) expanded on their thoughts on these ranks.
I think Gengar should rise to B rank and that's why:
:Gengar: can check some top threats pokémon, mainly after it gets a chance to use Nasty Plot. If that happens it can really hurt Slowking, Landorus-T, Heatran, Ferrothorn, Corviknight, and Toxapex (these last two with Thunderbolt).
But even without NP it can 1HKO Clefable, non-Choice Scarf Kartana, Tapus, Rillaboom.

Maybe you can say that's not enough to put Gengar in A ranks and I totally agree, but I'm nominating it to B rank, besides Hawlucha and Reuniclus, that also can't do much against a lot of threats in the higher ranks. So yeah, Gengar needs support, it's not a top pokémon, but I think it deserves to be B rank, at least B-.
 

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