Resource SS OU DLC2 Viability Ranking Thread [SEE: Page 105, Post 2618]

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BT89

I COULD BE BANNED!
Well if you’re going to say this, you might as well take it a step further and explain what you would like fixed. This is an initiative I am following for next update for sure and I already have some ideas, but I would love if you (or other posters!!!) expanded on their thoughts on these ranks.
All of them? Alright, let’s get it on.

Rises

:gengar: C+ -> B/B-

I think Gengar is honestly solid right now. It’s makes for a strong sweeper after a Nasty Plot, as well a solid stall breaker. It has no walls, and not much beats it after a boost, which it can get with, say, a Sub NP set. It just can’t do anything against offense, which is a huge bane in an offensively oriented meta, but it’s still good.

:glastrier: C+ -> B-

Sleeper pick here. Glastrier has just enough to make it B- worthy in my opinion. I don’t care if Mamoswine is better, this thing is still worth using. Albeit a low Speed tier, every other stat that this thing has and uses is insane. It’s bulk is incredible for an offensive mon, and 145 Attack is wild. It 2HKOs most Pokemon in the tier, which naturally makes it really hard to wall. Literally the only issue is that it’s an Ice type with Melmetal syndrome i.e. too slow and gets chipped. Otherwise, this thing is insane.

:latias: C+ -> B-

I would definitely say this thing is on par with its sibling. Latias has great bulk and solid offensive stats, which allow it to be a great user of Scarf + Healing Wish, as well as posing a threat in its own right. I’ve wanted to rise this thing for a while, but I never really had the reasoning, but now, I finally feel like I can actually say that it should be B-.

:mamoswine: C+ -> B-

Speaking of Mamoswine, yeah this thing rocks right now. It’s really strong, and doesn’t have the worst bulk for something like it. Nothing likes eating anything on a Band set. Honestly don’t got much to say here, it’s just not C+.

:mew: C+ -> B-

Mew has been rising as of late, and I wondered why. That was until I used it. It’s quite good at what it does: an offense Spikes lead. It has the bulk to take a hit, and with Red Card, it’s unique as a setter right now. Again, very little to say here.

:terrakion: C+ -> B-

Terrakion has been too low for a while. With Future Sight support, it is nearly impossible to reliably wall. It’s a very strong and usable Pokemon that beats many threats in the OU tier. It’s only flaw is that it has no bulk, so it will die sooner or later. Overall, good Pokemon though.

:cloyster: C -> B-

Cloyster is a monster. With his mystical shell cracking abilities and his ability to pelt innocent ladder victims with rocks and shards of ice, it is the best RNG abuser. It turns decisive scenarios into 50/50 plays, which is a very notable thing for a C tier such as Cloyster. It’s also just really strong, and not much comes in on it. This thing is real good, and you know it.

:keldeo: C -> C+

HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO NOM THIS. Anyways, this thing is real good. Has basically no switchins under rain, and even outside, it’s quite hard to switch in on. Keldeo does indeed despise the rise of Slowking in the current meta, but it can handle it, as it does well against a lot of things. Overall, it’s just a worse, Specially-oriented Shifu Rapid, but it’s still not bad.

:grimmsnarl: C- -> C+

This thing got shafted. I already talked about it, but being able to guarantee a screen goes with actual bulk gives it a notable niche as a Screener, or a utility mon as a whole with Prankster Taunt.

:incineroar: C- -> C

After actually using Incineroar, I can conclude that it actually isn’t this bad. It works as a very soft check to Dragapult, which is always nice, and it has a favorable match up vs. Volcarona. It’s probably one of the best Fire-type pivots right now. It can also do decent against a Rillaboom if it doesn’t switch in on a Wood Hammer, so that’s interesting. Overall, I slept on this thing, it’s worth the rise.

:weezing-galar: C- -> C

Weezing-Galar is pretty unique. It has three very good abilities, as well as a solid physically defensive role. It beats Rillaboom, which is neat, as well as non-Smart Strike Kartana, and with Levitate, it does good vs Garchomp as well, a very important Pokemon in the tier right now. However, Weezing-Galar has no special bulk, leaving it weak to a stray Special attack. Overall, not too bad, and worthy of a rise.

Drops

:obstagoon: C+ -> C

This mon is super eh. It’s big issue is chip damage. With the big amount of chip damage relevant in the metagame right now, it has a hard time with longevity, and usually ends up dead before it really leaves a real impact. It’s also pretty weak without Guts, and overall, I’d just say eh.

:rotom-heat: C+ -> C

Rotom-Heat has seen some better days. It’s just not great right now. No meta trend really benefits it besides Heatran, and Rotom-Wash is just better at what Rotom-Heat does. Not much else to say.

:nidoqueen: C -> C-

Nidoqueen is extremely niche right now. Why would you use it over Nidoking outside of more bulk? It’s weaker and slower, and doesn’t really have any use over it. It’s also just not a good Pokemon, facing the same issues as Nidoking offensively, and I doubt defensive Nidoqueen is being run in OU too often. So yeah, this mon is meh.

:salazzle: C -> C-

I haven’t seen anyone use Salazzle since... well, ever. Its niche is weird as the only Pokemon being able to poison Heatran, but it doesn’t really have the bulk to go against other things. It’s simply not good, moving on.

UR SQUAD

:ribombee: :araquanid:

Webs are bad right now, and these two are mediocre setters. The rise of Boots basically invalidates the playstyle as a whole, and these guys can’t really take a hit. They’re just gimmicks. Nothing more, nothing less.

:mimikyu:

Mimikyu has never been a particularly good Pokemon, but this is just no. It is weak even after an SD, gets walled by a ton of shit, and it’s just a waste in most scenarios.

Those are my C area noms. As you can see, I have a lot to say here, please tell me your opinion about it :)
 

TailGlowVM

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Here's my thoughts on the previous noms:
:glastrier: to C: Agree, would only use on TR and so should be moved to be with other TR mons
:slowking: dropping: Disagree, Slowking provides unparalleled support. It really is the CEO of Momentum and one of the most important pieces of the tier.
:urshifu_rapid_strike: to A+: Disagree. A+ should be for pretty versatile Pokemon with lots of utility that fit on lots and lots of structures easily, which the current Pokemon are. Urshifu only has 1-2 real sets, needs Future Sight support to work properly and doesn't really offer anything defensively other than being a one-time Heatran switch-in and checking Weavile and Bisharp at the cost of losing its wallbreaking power.
:melmetal: to A: Agree. Excellent wallbreaker with an increasingly diversifying range of sets, PadsTwave being the clear best.
:zeraora: to A: Strongly disagree. I think you might be missing the point of Zeraora's high ranking. Yes, we do have Rillaboom and Ground-types, but Zeraora is very good at forcing them in, as most teams lack other options to safely switch into it, allowing Zeraora to cripple them with Knock Off and Toxic. Zeraora is the only viable Pokemon that outspeeds Dragapult unboosted, and it can almost open up a new dimension to teambuilding as you can have a viable team without a Ground-type. Our speed control options are also very limited at the moment, further solidifying Zeraora's place on a number of teams.
:slowking_galar: to A-: Agree. It can check a few Pokemon better than its Johto brother, loves Nidoking's decline, and I think Calm Mind sets can be good too.
:volcarona: to A+: Uncertain. I, controversially, believe that Volcarona is a little overrated. It is hardwalled by the ubiquitous Heatran, and also struggles against Dragapult and Garchomp. It's not a proper Rillaboom and Kartana check when both have Knock Off 100% of the time. Even if it does have the tools to beat every Pokemon in the tier except Heatran and Dragonite, Volcarona can never have them all on the same set, and needs considerable team support to cover whatever it isn't. If Volcarona carries on being as dominant as this, there will be proper answers to it used more, like Scarfers for speed control, Rest Tyranitar, Thunder Wave Dragapult, and Dragonite. Urshifu-R is increasing in usage too. On the other hand, this does show a very centralising Pokemon, possibly justifying a rise, so I can't just reject a rise outright, but I would not be surprised to discover it ending up being the next Nidoking/Glowking of the VR thread.

A couple of my own nominations:
:tyranitar: B+ to A-: While the council's reasons to drop it seem justified to some extent, it's a Dragapult check that doesn't die to random coverage moves or take nearly 50% from Draco Meteor, it covers Heatran and Kyurem, and it's probably the third most consistent Volcarona counter after Heatran and Dragonite. While its other flaws hold it back from going higher than this, this kind of role compression is absolutely needed for a meta like this one with so much to cover, justifiying a place in the A ranks again.
:excadrill: B+ to B: Excadrill usage has reached all-time lows, and for good reason. Every team has a straightforward physical wall, usually a Flying- or Ground-type, that walls it easily, with the common Skarmory and Corviknight particularly problematic. It is easily revenge killed by priority from Rillaboom and Urshifu as well, and contributes very little defensively, especially with Zeraora favoured over Tapu Koko at the moment.
 
Slowking being S is uhhh

an Experience

While i think it's very strong, I feel like it should be A+ or perhaps S-, as it's influence on the teambuilder is relatively minor compared to dragapult
So I wanted to add a few more noms I feel are needed:

Garchomp is very strong at the moment, and I find it very hard to deal with defensively. Stuff like Skarm and Corvi gets bopped by Fire Blast, and Slowbro doesn't like a +2 eq.....why is this thing not S yet?
Add to this that we can run tanky sets (I saw this a lot in smogon tour a few weeks ago when I was watching, iunno if it's still popular but it exists), or even the odd special set (or Sand Veil nonsense).
Now for the C ranks, i was midway through writing when BreakthrU89 did that lmao.

I don't agree with some of their noms (Glastrier and Ribombee in particular), but some of them I would go farther on (Salazzle, Nidoqueen, Rotom-H, iunno), and some I haven't actually thought about before (Weezing-Galar being the most interesting one).

Also, what does Xatu do at all?

Also why is Zapdos-Galar, a frighteningly strong wallbreaker that destroys half the meta, in C+?
 
Well if you’re going to say this, you might as well take it a step further and explain what you would like fixed. This is an initiative I am following for next update for sure and I already have some ideas, but I would love if you (or other posters!!!) expanded on their thoughts on these ranks.
ty for telling me this, forgot to explain my reasoning on why c ranks are a mess rn

most of the mons listed in the C ranks are unviable, these mons are Ribombee, Mimikyu, Uxie, Xatu and the whole C- rank, and then u get to the C+ ranks and most of the mons in C+ are 100x times more viable than shit like glastrier or rotom-heat and obstagoon
C ranks are questionable like i dont understand why keldeo or cloyster is in the same rank as cresselia or salazzle, most of the C rank mons should drop or either join the ur gang
the c ranks are a mess imo, hopefully the next vr update changes this
 

TailGlowVM

Now 100% more demonic
is a Pre-Contributor
Also, what does Xatu do at all?

Also why is Zapdos-Galar, a frighteningly strong wallbreaker that destroys half the meta, in C+?
Xatu is ranked because it has Magic Bounce, which can be helpful in denying hazards from Ferrothorn and defensive variants of Landorus-T and Garchomp, while also being a pivot with Teleport, which can be helpful to some teams like sun.

Zapdos-G suffers from heavy prediction reliance to use, stiff competition with Urshifu-R for a Fighting-type, and being forced to lock into Brave Bird in most situations due to the large number of bulky Fighting-resistant Pokemon, causing it to be worn down extremely quickly. It's not even that strong and provides almost nothing defensively, which you'll see from the recent rises and drops as well as previous rankings: every successful wallbreaker needs to OHKO loads of stuff or provide some useful utility to succeed in this meta.
 
I agree with mostly everything stated TailGlowVPM. I think it is still worth noting that although Gapdos suffers competition as a fighting type, and is worn down by hazards + the combination of recoil, it's still worth noting that it does have solid base 125 attack stat and the small edge granting it a speed tier over Hydreigon and semi-counter to Rillaboom.
 
I, along with many others in the thread think it is time to nom Victini to B+. B honestly feels a bit low for this mon, as it has shown being very viable and quite good on offense and even balance teams. Boots definitely help it offensively, allowing it to dodge rocks and pivot out on heatran, allowing it to chip would be counters and allow teammates to deal with the threats. And even if keeping it around isn't worth it, future sight is a suprisingly good option on balance teams. (Not to the same extent as the slowtwins or glowking, but it can do it pretty well.) Even if it struggles defensively, it can still show some defensive prowess due to being able to slot in will-o-wisp just to drop the attack of some of its counters. (We witnessed this during the Zamazenta-C suspect.) Granted, Dragapult is a thorn in its side being able to outspeed it, but if you successfully predict when it comes in, you could cripple it with glaciate and drop its speed. (Not that it would help very much, as scarf dragapult will likely still outspeed.) Yes this pokemon does require a bit of prediction, but it is often very good offensively, and while not the best defensive pokemon, will-o-wisp can help it switch in on things and just annoy a lot of would be counters. Overall Victini, while not the most metagame defining pokemon, has a ton of merits that should not be overlooked, is a nice choice on offense and balance, and B+ feels like the perfect spot for this mon. (B tier feels too low to be fair)
 
Mantine absolutely should not be unranked IMO, at the very least when Volcarona and Urshifu-S are rising up as big metagame threats. Mantine stuffs every Volcarona set which is unique since even Blissey is vulnerable to Safeguard (or Sub) shenanigans, and also beats Urshifu-S that's not running Thunder Punch. The meaty SpDef also lets it handle Specs Dragapult that's not packing electric coverage, as well as Yes, it's a momentum sink that's vulnerable to Knock Off, but being able to counter arguably the biggest threat in the tier (Volcarona) and handle most sets of another (Dragapult) is worthy of maintaining a C-rank.
 

Red Raven

I COULD BE BANNED!
Slowking being on S rank. Never thought I would live to see the day that a slow twin of all things would get this high and surpass Garchomp or Heatran and especially Toxapex in viability. I guess the world really is coming to an end

Wanna make a couple noms of my own

:Hydreigon: to the B ranks. I'm not sure where exactly in the B ranks I would put. This mon is a bit too high maintenance. Yes it's scary but it is easily checked by the tier's premier dragons, Garchomp and Dragapult and those two are very common. This mon is scary yes but at the same time, it requires a decent amount of support unlike the mons in the A ranks

:Bisharp: to A-. This might be a controversial one but before anyone yells at me for this, I'm not saying Bisharp is bad, I'm saying it can be a bit unreliable to be A rank. I mean, it relies on sucker punch for priority and that is not at all reliable especially if Bisharp is choiced. It's too much of a guessing game and unlike other choice users in the A rank like Lele, Kyurem or Rillaboom, it is punished far more severely if it chooses the wrong move. Again, not saying it's bad. I just think relying on sucker punch is not a good thing especially with Bisharp's speed

:Zeraora: to A rank. I'm not convinced this mon deserves to stand in the ranks where Garchomp and Heatran reside. Yeah yeah it has knock off and volt switch but that's just it. Volt switch is easily blocked and even if Garchomp or Lando lose their item, that simply means that they will be more free to block its volt switches. It does outspeed Dragapult but I really don't think it should be in the same rank as the tier's apex predators. Again, I'm not saying it's bad. I just don't think it is that good to be ranked this high

:Heatran: to S. Would this really need an explanation? Wasn't S rank supposed to be the 'you can't go wrong with this' mons? Heatran does Heatran stuff and Heatran stuff is annoying. It annoys everything with toxic, it makes Lando regret switching in if it can land magma storm, it makes stall somewhat cry, Garchomp doesn't want to eat repeated magma miss and it hard counters Volcarona. Unless my understanding of S rank is wrong, I really think Heatran deserves a rise. The same goes for :Garchomp: but that has already been mentioned before
 
:Slowking: S -> A+:
As amazing as FuturePort-Regenerator is, people forget that it is also supposed to be a Special Wall. But look at some of the Special attackers it loses to: :Kyurem: :Dragapult: :Hydreigon: :Volcarona: :Tapu Koko:
Also has anyone ever built a team and thought: "I definitely need Taunt to stop King FuturePortOP from destroying me." ? I doubt that.
S-Rank is reserved for teambuilding-restricting or super versatile mons, but Slowking neither restricts much nor is it able to wall anything in OU besides :Nidoking: and :Tapu Lele:. Even :Heatran: can simply Toxic it.
 
This argument doesn't really make any sense. One thing I'll note about about Slowking is that it was just raised. That means the council also just considered the fact that it cannot 1v1 Kyurem and Dragapult and all the other mons you listed. Pretend this is a court and there's precedent on point from like, last week. There's nothing in your post to suggest a change in circumstance. Arguing about S rank really needs some showing of larger scale meta trends than just pointing out random mons. Slowking is really good and is part of most balance and BO teams rn. It's not a special wall. It's a pivot. The fact it can eat a hit from all the mons you list and get in something frail safely is a feature, not a bug.
If it is only about pivoting, then why is Slowbro only in B+?
 

BT89

I COULD BE BANNED!
If it is only about pivoting, then why is Slowbro only in B+?
Slowbro loses to more things in the tier that Slowking is able to handle perfectly fine, like pivot Torn, Nido, Lele, etc. It’s not only about pivoting either, it’s the specially defensive nature of Slowking that makes it fall into the meta’s favor, unlike Slowbro, who also just doesn’t do well against physical attackers right now that it should be beating.
 

Fusion Flare

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I’ll do you one better with Slowbro reasoning. It’s a bulky water that does absolute fuckall vs garchomp if it doesnt get the scald burn. Sure you could use ice beam but then you realize that the main moves for bro - scald, future sight, teleport, slack off - are also really necessary. You dont want a bro that lets in steels for absolutely no cost. Oh and, the whole “typing redundant alongside another S tier” really makes things tough for bro to work.
 

Finchinator

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Slowking should not be expected to blanket check special attackers like Blissey; that is an unrealistic measuring stick, so saying that Tapu Koko, Dragapult, or Volcarona hitting it super effectively should gatekeeper it from being an S tier specially defensive pivot is a shaky argument Imo.

Slowking is able to sponge hits on both sides of the spectrum from a plethora of common presences while setting up teammates better than anything else in modern OU history. The notion that it does not beat things individually very often may be true, but this is also largely irrelevant. Slowking is the epitome of a game flow Pokemon that is seldom utilized to win 1v1s and never attempting to sweep teams. Slowking being able to tank attacks from Calm Mind Clefable, Toxic Heatran, Nasty Plot Tornadus-T, etc. and pivot in-and-out is far more valuable than its ability to threaten them directly.

Slowking also pairs super well with common physically defensive pivots like Landorus-T and Corviknight, which is an understated reason as to why it is seeing much more usage than Slowbro. There is a reason why the golden standard of balance is cores with those Pokemon and revenge killers such as Dragapult. I voted Slowking for S and almost everyone else did as well. We will put it and other S rank Pokemon up for vote again, but there are going to have to be better counter arguments than those provided to flip such an impactful rise that promptly.
 
Because a lot of the time, Slowking does the same job but better, esp with key matchups like Heatran. (Altho B+ is also a bit unfair, and I'd like to nom Slowbro to A- while i'm here)
Even though Slowking has a much better Heatran Matchup than Bro, it still isn't great. Toxic + Magma Storm just does way too much residual damage & Taunt preventing King from Teleporting is just mean. The only set I've used that has a consistently good MU vs Heatran is an offensive Assault Vest set with Dragon Tail, since it can phase Heatran out after it uses Magma Storm and it 2HKOs it with Scald after a bit of chip.

I think the main reason Bro is worse is because most of its "better MUs" like Garchomp, Lando, etc. are handled by the Slowtwins most popular teammates, like Rillaboom and Corviknight. Slowking offers more by handling different special threats better, like Clefable, Nidoking, other Slowking, etc.
 
Even though Slowking has a much better Heatran Matchup than Bro, it still isn't great. Toxic + Magma Storm just does way too much residual damage & Taunt preventing King from Teleporting is just mean. The only set I've used that has a consistently good MU vs Heatran is an offensive Assault Vest set with Dragon Tail, since it can phase Heatran out after it uses Magma Storm and it 2HKOs it with Scald after a bit of chip.

I think the main reason Bro is worse is because most of its "better MUs" like Garchomp, Lando, etc. are handled by the Slowtwins most popular teammates, like Rillaboom and Corviknight. Slowking offers more by handling different special threats better, like Clefable, Nidoking, other Slowking, etc.
If your Heatran here is running Toxic, Taunt, and Magma Storm (and presumably Protect as well) it's going to take a while for it to wear down Slowking. Even if it does, it's almost definitely going to eat a strong Water STAB in the process and basically be traded for a half-health Slowking who can regen swap up to full
 

Jaajgko

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If your Heatran here is running Toxic, Taunt, and Magma Storm (and presumably Protect as well) it's going to take a while for it to wear down Slowking. Even if it does, it's almost definitely going to eat a strong Water STAB in the process and basically be traded for a half-health Slowking who can regen swap up to full
Scald does bad damage, especially if it's full spd Heatran.
0 SpA Slowking Scald vs. 248 HP / 248+ SpD Heatran: 120-144 (31.1 - 37.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
You can basically trap Slowking the first time it comes in on a Magma Storm that doesn't miss with the following sequence: Magma Storm, Taunt, Toxic, Earth Power, Earth Power. Before Slowking is able to land the 4th scald it's already dead to the second earth power. Magma Storm as the only attacking move is pretty bad, the set should always have earth power over protect. By doing this, the Heatran ends up being very low, but the trade is often pretty good. You can also poison the Slowking beforehand, so that you can trap it while only taking 2 scalds and end up at 44% min.
I've seen many people running 128 speed on tran but it don't think it's a good benchmark, as it outspeeds neutral nature aegislash and magnezone, but aegislash is uncommon, and magnezone likes to run timid on specs to outspeed 220 speed corviknight/skarm, and often runs around 190 speed on iron defense spreads. If you want your Heatran to be fast then run 241 speed, which outspeeds Adamant Bisharp, Timid Magnezone and Adamant Scizor.
So basically if Slowking is your check to Heatran you really need something to abuse it being low after taking many scalds.
 
Overall I think the new update was really good but there were two rank shifts that I really don't agree with.

:Slowking: --> S-/A+ Slowking has absolutely no business being in S rank with dragapult and lando-t. It's obviously a very strong pokemon and helps define one of the strongest archetypes but I don't think that's enough for it to be in the highest ranking. The metagame has adapted well to it and it's honestly really hard to get up a future sight + teleport vs most competent players. We can also see in WCOP R2 that it only had a 20% win rate out of 10 games used, and while obviously usage =/= viability, taking a closer look at the teams used you can see the archetype slowking typically finds itself on either gets beaten down by more offensive teams that give no room for slowking to come in, or is unable to break past fatter teams that all have a answer to futureport. Slowking is a good mon overall, but it's affect on the meta is nowhere close to the presence that dragapult and lando-t have. I personally think it should be in A+, but seeing the support it has in the thread makes me believe that if we were to open S- this should be the mon that goes there.

:Toxapex: --> A+ I have no idea why this dropped in the first place. Like I guess there's a lot of mons like clefable and heatran that have sets to break past it, but it's still one of the best answers to many of the top threats in the tier such as dragapult, moistshifu, and weavile. Knock off + toxic/t spikes sets are great right now and lets it do a great job punishing slowking who try to mindlessly switch into it. Don't really have much to say about pex as I think it's just as strong as it's been for the last few months.

I also don't think Zeraora should have rose to A+, or Blissey to A- but I don't feel too strongly about either of them so I won't write on them.

Other people's noms:

:Victini: --> B+ Agree
:Rotom-Wash: --> B+ Agree
:Blacephalon: --> B- Disagree (this mon is terrible)
:Jirachi: --> B- Disagree
:Terrakion: --> B Disagree
:Nidoking: --> B- Strongly disagree (lol what)
:Glastrier: --> C Agree
:Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: --> A+ Agree
:Volcarona: --> A+ lol just qb this mon
:Slowking-Galar: --> A- Disagree
:Melmetal: --> A Disagree
:Keldeo: --> C+ Agree (sub cm is a rly solid set)
:Grimmsnarl: --> C+ Agree (best screens setter rn)
 
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B to B+: Buzzwole is a solid physical wall with Roost, standing apart from other physical walls by virtue of also having a solid physically offensive repertoire, keeping itself healthy with Drain Punch, smacking Fighting resists with the likes of Ice Punch and EQ, while potentially making itself tankier with Beast Boost. What really stands out Buzz's defensive aptitude, however, is specific resistances it gains thanks to its typing, namely some of the best physical moves: Close Combat, Knock Off, EQ, U-turn and Grassy Glide; that Grass resistance in particular means it hard-counters any Rillaboom that isn't Grassy Seed + Acrobatics. The Knock Off resistance and lack of an Ice weakness also allows it to be a sturdier answer to rising star Weavile, something most physical walls don't want to deal with between STAB and item- loss; Corv and Skarm are decent against Weavile, but they need to be highly wary of potential partner Magnezone, which Buzz can at least hit hard and switch out against. Its tank set is definitely the best, although offensive sets may have some potential as well: running Bulk Up as the last move on its standard set can potentially allow Buzz to serve as a rare bulky sweeper, or a late-game cleaner with offensive investment and Choice item, taking greater advantageous of its great physical movepool and stronger Fighting STAB in its own CC. These won't supplant tank set, but I feel these offensive sets could find a solid niche with enough exploration. Now, Buzz's lacking SpD and speed mean that it can't handle special attackers, and there are several match-ups where Tangrowth is objectively better, but its potential advantages against key physical threats are enough that I feel confidant about this nom.

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B- to B+: This nom seems to have gotten a bit lost in the shuffle, what with the- reshuffling of S and A tiers, but I stand by my nom. So, a brief recap of my point from my original nom: 1) Steels good, Moltres beats Steels with Fire STAB, 2HKOs Heatran with Scorching Sands sans SpA investment. 2) Flame Body and Sands allow much burn spreading, prey on key physical attackers, and is best at using Flame Body since Heatran needs Flash Fire. 3) With Mystical Fire and a little SpD investment, can 1v1 Volcarona (offensive Volc +1 Psychic only a 10% chance to 2HKO), packs recovery unlike Tran, unlike Bliss doesn't struggle with Safeguard variant. 4) Roost to stay healthy. 5) Defog to provide utility. Points against: hates losing Boots, not sturdiest on SpD unless specifically invested that way. Overall, still think this has enough good match-ups to justify at least a rise to B, maybe B+.

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C+ to B-: Gapdos is a very hit or miss mon; it is hella strong with great STAB combo, packs Defiant to punish Defog, and can pivot with U-turn, but it is also prone to prediction, doesn't hard switch in too well and can wear itself down quickly with recoil and/or self-inflicted stat drops. Still, I feel C+ is a bit harsh for it; I think it would be right at home in B-.


Noms I agree with
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to B+
: Victini packs a lot of versatility, with Boots and Scarf being two great sets alongside several other options. V-Create is V-Create, Bolt Strike and Energy Ball smack Waters, U-turn because pivot good, Final Gambit on Scarf removes hard checks, and Trick is annoying as always. Hits hard and in enough ways that I can buy this.
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to B-
: I like King, but it has a limited defensive utility, competition from other scary special attackers, subpar speed. Sure, it's still great against defensive cores, but it struggles a lot against offense; the fact stuff like Pult is promoting more Blissey and SpD Pex is also not favorable to its success. B- might be a bit harsh, but I agree this thing shouldn't be higher than B.
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to C+
: HO may not be the strongest style right now, but Grimmsnarl's ability to get guaranteed screens with Prankster and Prankster Taunt to prevent Defog (plus the tier is really lacking in Taunt rn), and even Spirit Break for some offensive pressure and further weakening of special attacks make it a solid lead for this style. I feel this thing is at least on the same level as Alolatales, maybe even a bit higher, so to C+ it should go.
 
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Fusion Flare

i have hired this cat to stare at you
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short nom but Glowbro :Slowbro-Galar: C- to Unranked

when was the last time anyone used this outside of meme teams? It is by far the worst slowtwin and its only true niche is praying for quick claw quick draw. Its physical bulk over Glowbro is mostly useless and I can't think of any relevant interaction it would matter. Consider Slowbro vs Slowking (Kanto). Bro can check dragonite, melmetal, and garchomp much better than slowking can. I just don't know of a physical mon that doesn't threaten both Glowbro and Glowking about equally (they are both weak to ground). If anyone has a defense of this being on the VR I'd love to hear it
Well, it is technically broken because thats what policy review said, duh. I thought you knew better. The only reason to keep it is to fuel those Pokemon Showdown Salt #42069 videos, obviously.

Just kidding, get it out of here.
 
Well, it is technically broken because thats what policy review said, duh. I thought you knew better. The only reason to keep it is to fuel those Pokemon Showdown Salt #42069 videos, obviously.

Just kidding, get it out of here.
While it is bad it can cheese wins with NP quick draw + quick claw and just outspeed every pokemon , its got a niche in C-, its obviously not blaziken good niche, but it is C-
 

Gomi

g9 waiting room
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Good vr update
:rillaboom: to A-
This meta is brutal to the ape, and its not just the omniprescence of steel birds, the incredibly high amount of ways to abuse glide offensively, and the continued fall in knock bait birds like Mandi either. Simply put, this mon's gameplan is WAY too predictable and abusable, and the only real mixup in most scenarios is like superpower maybe on CB sets here and there. If it has zone w/ it, you know to keep your worse checks healthier and midground obvious u turns, if it doesn't, you have super free reign with corv/skarm/ferro builds and can reasonably deny it consistently without pretty considerable outplaying on the Rilla's part. Even vs MUs where im told rilla just 6-0's, the sheer amount of options to abuse rilla at ur disposal without steel birds is still fairly high, a quick list being Heatran, Kart, Torn, Kyu, Lele, and Volc, some come in some don't but all of them get damage oppurtunities off of it. I get Knock pesters alot but even that demands you rely quite a bit on other mons to do much at all, and its not even the only mon that theoretically abuses knock to beat almost everything (Zera, Kart, Torn) and if anything, I'd argue the first 2 listed r far better at doing so

Oh yea its also rlly inconsistent as speed control bc of the amount of things it cant touch and SD is really only functional in an HO setup spam chain
Tl;dr Click grass stab and give alot of really scary shit free reign, spam U turn and open yourself up to predictability, Click Knock and you rely alot on other mons to function. It's still good I just don't view it as highly as the rest of A.

Other ppl's stuff I agree w/
:rotom-wash: is already in B+ lol
:urshifu:-R to A+
:volcarona: to A+ kinda fishy on HO but v useful defensively and not many consistent answers with minimal support elsewhere

Other ppl's stuff I don't agree w/
:Nidoking: to B- it's about as good as the rest of B+, below Hawl is insanity
:blacephalon: to B- Specs is 9 times out of 10 worse than pult, subcm is v hateful of the common mixed/spdef pex on fat and everything else RKs or doesn't let it breathe
:slowking-galar: to A-
:zapdos-galar: to B- a bitch to build around and regen food, takes like a million chip doing anything
:Victini: any higher than B like lol what
 
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