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Nom time! Finally got back into this game after taking a little hiatus and I really enjoy the meta rn. Idr the last time I did one of these so I’ll try not to repeat myself too much
A+ to Lower: Kind of unfortunate really. Corv suffers from Mandibuzz syndrome where it is tasked with doing wayyyy to much for a mon with middling bulk to handle. Most of the time just running corv is not enough to handle everything on a team. On top of that, Magnezone is at its peak rn and of course corv hates that. Still a solid mon it’s just not the titan it was a little while ago.
A -> A+: Actually surprised no one has made this nom before me. Timid Kart is a legitimate large threat, and with corv and buzz falling off kart can kind of just shred teams. Also in my opinion scarftana is prob the best scarfer in the tier.
A -> A+: I’ve made this nom quite a few times but I guess we’re doing it again. Double steel is an amazing core rn and Melm is one of the key pieces in it. For how absurdly strong it is, it packs a ton of defensive utility in it as well. Checking mons like kart weav and a few others depending on the set while also being really hard to switch into is incredible. AV also answers Kyurem pretty well (kind of).
A -> A-: Tapu Koko does it better. While Zera outspeed pult, that’s pretty much it for reasons to use it over koko. Being hard walled by the far and away best mon in the tier is not the best trait. Koko can at least whittle it down quite fast, while zera has to knock it at least five times for it to die. Running toxic eats into its offensive qualities, as now you are losing to ferrothorn. Once it does manage to get past Lando, it now poses a kind of mediocre offensive threat. Bulk up and Calm mind are neat, but if your opponent is semi competent, they’ll just keep their Lando alive. This mon needs ice punch badly.
B+? (Too lazy to check)-> A-/A: This mon is CRAZY (definitely fits it’s character too lol). This is probably the best offensive mon in the entire tier. This mon has literally zero checks, mostly because trick is a broken move. The mons that do kind of check it kind of blow otherwise. Being weak to rocks is like the only thing keeping this monster in check.
B+ -> A- or A: Don’t have much to say here, besides I’m glad people are finally using this mon! I’ve nommed it up every time I’ve made a post on this VR, and I’m glad people are starting to see how strong it is. Taking advantage of Lando is an amazing trait in the current meta.
A- to lower: Somebody recently nommed this down, and wasn’t completely shit on for doing so! This mon being above Dragonite on the vr is a joke. Funnily enough I think it’s better rn than it’s been in the past six months, but it’s still super meh. Offensive sets get crushed by anything faster than it, which is a huge problem cause most teams run a mon faster than it. Even defense runs mons like blissey and clef to stop it dead in its tracks. Also it’s usage is piss poor. Please put this mon out of its misery.
C -> to higher: This mon has seen quite a bit of usage recently. Having infinite speed control and infinite hazard removal in one slot is pretty cool. With hippo falling off, Lando and chomp are the only common mons that stop this dude. Both are quite prone to chip from other mons they have to check, which leaves the opposing team super overwhelmed and scrambling to keep their ground alive. Just Elekis presence on a team puts pressure on the opponent.
B- to B: in a metagame where kyurem and Tapu lele are some of the best offensive mons in the tier, jirachi finds a place to shine. Also being a steel with semi reliable recovery is p cool. It’s also jirachi so it can p much run whatever it wants and beat whatever it wants. Someone will find a set for this mon that breaks the tier eventually.
B- to B: pretty cool offensive mon rn. Being able to set up on quite a few common Pokémon is pretty nice. Not really checked by anything in the tier besides Fini, which isn’t the hardest mon the chip. Defensive sets are okay, but kind of exploitable.
NOMS I DISAGREE WITH:
: we need this mon more than ever now. With kyurem and lele at peak broken, Scizor checks both of their common sets quite effectively.
: yeah, I’m not fully convinced yet. Def could see a rise to B, but I don’t think it’s good enough for anything above. Seems kind of matchup fishy. Does pretty well vs ox the fox hail tho, pretty cool.
If you disagree with any of my noms, feel free to correct me, again I haven’t played this game in a little while. Have a nice day!
to A to B to A- to S- (hopefully disagreeing with finch is ok haha- i feel it fits on almost any archetype right now, the sub roost DD set is gaining usage and is very good, specs continues to wallbreak and sets like nevermeltice can catch opponents off guard with its calcs) to A- to B+ (B would be fine, too) to B (B+ would be fine, too) to A+ (strongly agreed) to A+ (strongly agreed) to A- (not A, though) to B- to A- (strongly agreed) to UR (this mon is awful unless you have insane luck, just use glowking) to C to B+ to B- to B- to A- to B (as good as if not better than barraskewda. shouldn't be so far apart) and to B- (or at least C+, sun is just as good as sand as a weather archetype)
to B+ (only rise to B/B-, it still has problems getting past a lot of rock resists) to B (i haven't seen enough of this mon being good to be convinced it's anything above B-) to B- (as good as exca, ie okay. worth a slot on sand.) to C+ (gets super low usage (lower than blastoise btw) , outclassed outside of TR, not even a guaranteed slot on there) to B (it does what it's always done, has its niche) to C- (it's still bad imo, just use lele) to A+ (i'm fairly neutral on this but for now i think it's still not as good as the other A+ mons but one of the best in A.)
Rain drop
if i didn't mention it i'm probably neutral on it.
My nominations to A- (specs zapdos is super good right now (with and without rain) since it can lure mons like spdef lando-t/hippo and 2hko them, and as a defensive defogger it's less passive than corv too. its weaknesses are easily covered by a steel-type partner.) to C/C- (why is this unranked? everyone knows what this does - exactly the same thing as but with more physical bulk instead of hazard immunity, meaning it's on teams with double defog and good knock absorbers due to its higher physical defense which allows it to take more u-turns. it feels weird that people say has a niche but this mon doesn't. its usage at #63 puts it above B+ mons like and . both of which should be higher than , don't get me wrong, but not ranking it at all seems odd to me given its relavence in the tier) to C/C- (i've posted in detail about this mon before, and will continue to nominate it. i'l try not to repeat myself too much but this is the best shell smasher in the tier, with and also sharing similar niches on HO (i wouldn't oppose those being ranked too). with terrain pulse, aura sphere and ice beam as options it can cover almost every water resist. very potent wincon that has less trouble setting up than the alternatives.) to C (is a good alternative to since rock/fighting coverage has no resist in the tier (unless rises), and it can more easily run adamant and abuse priority to pick off mons like pult after a SD. will ladder more with it and provide replays to 'officially' nominate it soon, though i'd be interested in hearing others' thoughts on this mon.)
to S- (hopefully disagreeing with finch is ok haha- i feel it fits on almost any archetype right now, the sub roost DD set is gaining usage and is very good, specs continues to wallbreak and sets like nevermeltice can catch opponents off guard with its calcs)
Always more than welcome to!!! I’m just one vote on the council and one poster in the thread. I’d much rather lively discussion and civil disagreements than universal agreement and a dead thread any day if the week
to A to B to A- to S- (hopefully disagreeing with finch is ok haha- i feel it fits on almost any archetype right now, the sub roost DD set is gaining usage and is very good, specs continues to wallbreak and sets like nevermeltice can catch opponents off guard with its calcs) to A- to B+ (B would be fine, too) to B (B+ would be fine, too) to A+ (strongly agreed) to A+ (strongly agreed) to A- (not A, though) to B- to A- (strongly agreed) to UR (this mon is awful unless you have insane luck, just use glowking) to C to B+ to B- to B- to A- to B (as good as if not better than barraskewda. shouldn't be so far apart) and to B- (or at least C+, sun is just as good as sand as a weather archetype)
to B+ (only rise to B/B-, it still has problems getting past a lot of rock resists) to B (i haven't seen enough of this mon being good to be convinced it's anything above B-) to B- (as good as exca, ie okay. worth a slot on sand.) to C+ (gets super low usage (lower than blastoise btw) , outclassed outside of TR, not even a guaranteed slot on there) to B (it does what it's always done, has its niche) to C- (it's still bad imo, just use lele) to A+ (i'm fairly neutral on this but for now i think it's still not as good as the other A+ mons but one of the best in A.)
Rain drop
if i didn't mention it i'm probably neutral on it.
My nominations to A- (specs zapdos is super good right now (with and without rain) since it can lure mons like spdef lando-t/hippo and 2hko them, and as a defensive defogger it's less passive than corv too. its weaknesses are easily covered by a steel-type partner.) to C/C- (why is this unranked? everyone knows what this does - exactly the same thing as but with more physical bulk instead of hazard immunity, meaning it's on teams with double defog and good knock absorbers due to its higher physical defense which allows it to take more u-turns. it feels weird that people say has a niche but this mon doesn't. its usage at #63 puts it above B+ mons like and . both of which should be higher than , don't get me wrong, but not ranking it at all seems odd to me given its relavence in the tier) to C/C- (i've posted in detail about this mon before, and will continue to nominate it. i'l try not to repeat myself too much but this is the best shell smasher in the tier, with and also sharing similar niches on HO (i wouldn't oppose those being ranked too). with terrain pulse, aura sphere and ice beam as options it can cover almost every water resist. very potent wincon that has less trouble setting up than the alternatives.) (is a good alternative to since rock/fighting coverage has no resist in the tier (unless rises), and it can more easily run adamant and abuse priority to pick off mons like pult after a SD. will ladder more with it and provide replays to 'officially' nominate it soon, though i'd be interested in hearing others' thoughts on this mon.)
I haven't had much time lately to sit down and build stuff around either or , but I find them to be very interesting picks in this current meta. is probably the closest thing to a counter to its galarian counterpart, but also fits very nicely on hazard spam cores with a subroost pressure set by virtue of its ability to check and threaten the three most common defoggers in lando, corvi and torn-t while draining their defog pp. also, as you said, its pretty powerful offensively and its an electric type with uturn, which we all know how valuable it is (koko).
as for , its power is lower than terrakion's, but in my opinion has two distinct advantages over it: 110 base speed and accelerock.
the former isn't much different from terrakion but it notably outspeeds kartana, which can be absolutely crucial against any version that's not scarf. accelerock gives it utility against faster threats, hitting every relevant faster mon for at least neutral damage. between stab, choice band and tough claws, accelerock hits pretty hard. it also comes in quite handy to check volcarona, arctozolt and dragonite if multiscale isn't intact. being just rock type also gives it a resistance to tornadus-t's hurricane rather than a neutrality, which may prove to be useful (this last point is very nitpicky and situational but the first two still stand). they are both frail and weak to many stuff + work well with future sight, so the support they need is almost identical anyway: future sight and pivots. lycanroc also appreciates corvi's usage dropping and skarm being almost non-existent. it wallbreakes slightly less effectively, but has two big assets over terrakion imho
i dont have opinions on and especially , but I think that C- is the best chansey can hope for since its viability is restricted to a specific playstyle and team composition.
I've been using it on a rain team with White Herb to take advantage of its natural bulk, and I gotta say it works pretty well, mostly because Shell Smash is a bonkers move. Blastoise is definitely not the most consistent and against some match ups it doesn't do much, but against others it can nearly 6-0. It has a pretty big weakness to Toxapex, but Rain sometimes packs a Thunder user or Seismitoad which helps. Torrent Hydro Pumps in Rain lets Blastoise break past unsuspecting resists and walls akin to Volcanion. I'm not a particularly good player so I'm not very high ladder and i mostly play blitz but I do have some replays showcasing the potential of Blastoise:
while kyurem is arguably more broken than dragapult. dragapult can be slapped on a variety of playstyles with little drawback, meanwhile kyurem requires a little bit of team support. dragapult can offer a ton of role compression and has become a staple of the ss ou metagame, while kyurem only really does one job (which it does really well at that). mons in s- and s are typically the faces/staples of the tier due to their insane role compression and how splashable they are rather than the most broken ones, kyurem being a+ is still very noteworthy on how strong it is. just because a mon is basically unwallable outside of a small handful of mons, doesnt guarentee it the s ranks. while kyurem could potentially see a rise soon (and a suspect test?), this is the tldr on why they are tiered in comparison to each other currently.
I can tell one thing for sure kyreum can do all the roles dragupult does but better. Specs pult(Wallbreaker) Kyreum specs does it better. Scarf pult we got scarf kyreum outspeeding all non boosted mons. Kyreum also can run a bulky roost/subroost. On the physical side kyreum had ddance sweeping sets too. So, why is kyreum not as splashable (Speed is not the best but scarf and ddance roost makes up for it IMO).
Edit- Kyreum also has better coverage and overall typing is more advantageous for it. Only rising steel is melmetal and all others are not soo good right now.
I can tell one thing for sure kyreum can do all the roles dragupult does but better. Specs pult(Wallbreaker) Kyreum specs does it better. Scarf pult we got scarf kyreum outspeeding all non boosted mons. Kyreum also can run a bulky roost/subroost. On the physical side kyreum had ddance sweeping sets too. So, why is kyreum not as splashable (Speed is not the best but scarf and ddance roost makes up for it IMO).
Edit- Kyreum also has better coverage and overall typing is more advantageous for it. Only rising steel is melmetal and all others are not soo good right now.
As Baloor mentioned, Dragapult can compress all the roles you mentioned above, while Kyurem can only do 1 thing at a time. Specs Pult and Specs Kyurem do very different things - Pult compresses the role of Wallbreaker, Speed Control, Pivot all in 1, while Specs Kyurem is only a Wallbreaker (although a more devastating one). In fact, teams do feature both Specs Kyurem and Specs Dragapult where Kyurem wallbreaks early game for Pult to clean late game with Specs Shadow Ball
Due to this role compression, Pult is ranked at S-, while Kyurem is a bit more difficult to fit and requires more team support to execute its job, justifying it's A+ rank (which is already a great rank)
I can tell one thing for sure kyreum can do all the roles dragupult does but better. Specs pult(Wallbreaker) Kyreum specs does it better. Scarf pult we got scarf kyreum outspeeding all non boosted mons. Kyreum also can run a bulky roost/subroost. On the physical side kyreum had ddance sweeping sets too. So, why is kyreum not as splashable (Speed is not the best but scarf and ddance roost makes up for it IMO).
Edit- Kyreum also has better coverage and overall typing is more advantageous for it. Only rising steel is melmetal and all others are not soo good right now.
So like, other people have said why is Pult more splashable than Pult, and that the main difference is that Kyurem needs more team support; it needs Defog or else it'll have to roost more than what you'd like if youre NMI or just get 25% of your health down until the end of the match, and then Kyurem is prone to being revenge killed unlike Pult. Pult on the other hand is a v neat source of speed control that also works as a pivot and cleaner, and even wallbreaker on the right matchups. Shadow ball is a super spammable move which means Pult will rarely need any other coverage moves si that doesnt even matter, and it's very scary if you let your defensive backbone get chipped.
The sets you listed... what can i say. Scarf Pult is like the worst set so i don't get why r u even comparing it to scarf kyurem (bad too, relies on surprise), and theres also like Substitute Kyurem which doesnt even have to do with this at all because it's exclusive to Kyurem, and Pult actually does better with Dragon Dance than Kyurem. Also how's melmetal the only viable steel lol.
All in all i recommend playing the tier to have a better idea of how these work! We'll be around to help :) hope you find this helpful
PS: og poster already replied but this took away 30 minutes of my sleep so i'm posting it anyways lmao
I find Scarf Kyurem should rather be compared to Specs Dragapult than Scarf Dragapult (though I've used it in the G-Darmanitan era to surprise KO the scarf ones with Fire Blast) . And it's a disfavorable comparison.
-Their speed is comparable: 468 for Kyurem and 421 for Dragapult (both Timid). There isn't too many stuff in between: Zeraora, +1 Jolly Dragonite, Scarf Timid Tapu Fini, Scard Modest Tapu Lele off the top of my head. And Scarf Kyurem loses vs the latter even if it outspeeds.
-They are both locked into a move, though being locked into a Ghost move is way nicer than into an Ice move. Dragapult has a superior damage output: its Draco Meteor hits 25% harder, and its Shadow Ball 11% harder than Kyurem's Ice Beam. Sp. Def drop is way less annoying than freeze, but happens twice as often.
-As far as coverage moves go, Fire Blast hits Ferrothorn harder than Earth Power hits Heatran.
-And pivot-wise, Dragapult gets U-turn and takes half the SR damage of Kyurem.
-Finally, Pressure is nigh-useless to a Scarfer, while Infiltrator is situationnally a lifesaver.
-Dragapult is considerably less bulky, but has way more useful resistances, including 2 immunities. This means it can serve as the same emergency switchin/can stay on the same attacks in some situations anyway: Magma Storm, V-Create, +1 Bug Buzz from defensive Volcarona, and Bullet Punch deals about as much to Kyurem as Ice Shard to Dragapult anyway.
Ay finally saved some decent replays! (they are in the lower part of the ladder cause I decided to try out sand before this lol)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1447946296
This is against a generally unviable team at a low ranking (seriously that mew set) but I saved it cause it shows blaziken breaking through a typically solid answer, quag, without using lo or an sd boost, replacing that extra damage needed with spikes support from skarm. It also easily beats prim and greatly weakens lando into the crucial range of koko’s gleam from full.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1447930943
I knew my team struggled greatly with rotom-w, and this is an example of that. But then I realized something in this match way too late, that blaziken literally 6-0’s it (without even using a boosting item or move). Hail is one of blaziken’s golden mus, and this is a reflection of that, showing an example of blaziken singlehandedly dragging me to victory after some incredibly poor plays on my part. Notice how a lo would have been detrimental in this mu (pads would have been optimal, but i was running no removal spikestack so I wanted boots for better performance against opposing hazard stack).
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1447375243
I figured this was lead mew with its only attacking move as ice beam for lando since it looked like a ho build to me. I decided to risk it all after a bad start and it paid off well. Notice blaziken breaking through one of its best counters in dnite cause it got an extra free turn of setup. This replay also shows the chicken’s ability to take hits from bisharp well. Shame blaze didn’t sweep but it opened up the game for me to win easily
Alright that’s it I will get some not shit replays in the future and will finally get that rise hopefully.
Hey there, just wanted to put the spotlight on two Psychic types who, in my opinion, deserve to rise in the VR. Have fun reading!
A --> A+
I find Tapu Lele amazing in the current metagame. The Choice Scarf variant is a great Speed Control tool with a decent firepower, being able to OHKO most offensive Pokemon after a bit of chip. The Choice Specs set is one of the most fearsome wallbreakers in the metagame with very few reliable switch-ins. Lastly, some non-locked sets can be used, as you can bait your opponents by making them think that you are running a Choice Scarf set and catch some switch-ins with another move. You can also use Calm Mind with Tapu Lele’s decent special bulk and access to Draining Kiss to threaten most answers without relying too much on good predictions (we can also add that Psychic Terrain can help some teammates like Hawlucha with Psychic Seed + Unburden and make some priority move users way less threatening).
Choice Scarf Tapu Lele is one of the very best revenge killers and cleaner in the tier. Even if you don’t have the same kill power than with a Choice Specs, there’s actually very few Pokemon in the tier able to avoid a 2HKO if you click the right move. This means that you still need to play the prediction game correctly in most games but, as most of the time you will come in on something you directly threaten and thus force a switch, you are not taking huge risks on mispredictions. You also rely less on predictions late game when most pseudo-checks are weakened and in a lot of game you can try to put everything in range of one of your moves to attempt a sweep. You have to watch out for faster foes, as, even if you outspeed all unboosted and non-Scarf Pokemon (except the rare Regieleki), you are slower than a lot of Scarfer (like Kartana, Blacephalon, Urshifu-R) and most of them can OHKO Tapu Lele or need very few chip damages to do so. Choice Scarf Tapu Lele is also a good Future Sight user with its ability to force switches and can thus help a lot of threatening physical breakers like Zapdos Galar and Urshifu-R. These Choice Band breakers also appreciate the Speed Control brought by Scarf Tapu Lele and they can tear into pieces most walls that annoy this Tapu Lele set in return.
All this makes Tapu Lele a deadly weapon against offensive teams, as it can revenge kill a lot of the common Pokemon in these teams and most of time they don’t have any good answer and need to sacrifice things while having to absolutely keep alive the few revenge killers they have. If against more balanced and defensive teams Scarf Tapu Lele have a harder time at claiming kill, Future Sight makes it extremely valuable when paired up with the aforementioned good breakers.
252 SpA Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Heatran: 200-236 (51.8 - 61.1%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 170-202 (48.2 - 57.3%) -- 41.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Tapu Lele Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 92 SpD Corviknight: 204-240 (51.1 - 60.1%) -- 88.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Slowking-Galar in Psychic Terrain: 205-243 (52 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey in Psychic Terrain: 309-364 (43.2 - 50.9%) -- 4.3% chance to 2HKO
Choice Specs Tapu Lele is the balance teams destroyer. Except some niche Pokemon (like Jirachi or Shedinja), nothing really wants to come in against this demon. Timid doesn’t let you outspeed many things and in my opinion, you can afford to run a Modest nature to be even harder to switch into. Sure, its Speed Tier leaves it slower than most offensive Pokemon, but with the plethora of available slow pivot it’s fairly easy to find an opportunity for it to come in on the field and fire a move. Even when you don’t click the best move against the opposing switch-in you will get a lot of damage on something and eventually overwhelm your pseudo-checks like Heatran. You can even make Tapu Lele less prediction reliant by running teammates like Magnezone to trap and eliminate annoying Steel types like Corviknight and Ferrothorn (this also helps a lot the Choice Scarf set).
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 248 HP / 92 SpD Corviknight in Psychic Terrain: 162-191 (40.6 - 47.8%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Slowking-Galar in Psychic Terrain: 337-397 (85.5 - 100.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Heatran: 328-388 (84.9 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran in Psychic Terrain: 133-157 (34.4 - 40.6%) -- 53.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 280-330 (79.5 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 128 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Melmetal: 272-320 (61.3 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Tapu Lele @ Leftovers / @ Life Orb / Twisted Spoon
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Moonblast / Draining Kiss
- Focus Blast / Thunderbolt
The main non-locked sets are Calm Mind variants and the Assault Vest one, which are rarer than the two previous sets, but still efficient ones. Calm Mind Tapu Lele is super good at catching opponents off-guard. Indeed, most people will try to find a defensive switch-in against Tapu Lele and it is most of the time a guessing game between a Psychic move, Moonblast and Focus Blast. But with this set you can set up a Calm Mind as they switch and fire the right move with the same power than a Choice Specs set. You are also notably harder to revenge kill as special breakers like Choice Specs Dragapult won’t kill +1 Tapu Lele from full. There are two kinds of Calm Mind sets: one with Moonblast and Leftovers or Twisted Spoon and one with Draining Kiss + Life Orb which is particularly hard to wear down because of Draining Kiss insane recovery. As for the Assault Vest set, you can still use it as a Choice Scarf bait, and even though it’s not as threatening as the Calm Mind variant, you can take several special hits thanks to Tapu Lele’s great special bulk and the Assault Vest boost and you can even beat some revenge killers like Choice Specs Dragapult who may think they can OHKO your Tapu Lele.
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Lele: 194-230 (69 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Lele Draining Kiss vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragapult: 406-478 (128 - 150.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Being able to run all these different sets efficiently and act as a fast cleaner and revenge killer, one of the deadliest breakers in the game, a great special check with a lot of offensive power, or a threatening setup sweeper (and I didn’t even talk about that nasty Iron Defense + Calm Mind set), Tapu Lele is in my opinion one of the very best Pokemon in the current SS OU metagame and clearly deserves to be moved up to A+.
B --> B+
Mew is the definition of versatility. Having stats that enable any sort of roles and probably the best movepool in the game, Mew can do pretty much everything. I won’t go over all the Mew sets you can use (because there’s way too many of them) and I will focus this around the main and most threatening/useful ones. The first Mew set you can think of is the suicide lead one. Being able to use both Stealth Rock and Spikes will having Taunt and a great Speed Tier make it one of the suicide leads of choice for Hyper Offense teams. The other common Mew set which is in trend currently is what people call the “Demon Mew”. This set uses Mew access to Cosmic Power, Stored Power and a reliable recovery to make it a super threatening setup sweeper that a lot of teams can’t stop at all. Defensive Mew with a lot of utility moves likes Spikes, Knock Off, Will-O-Wisp, Thunder Wave… is also a very good fit in balance teams in search of a Spikes setter. Lastly, offensive setup sets like Swords Dance, Dragon Dance and Nasty Plot Mew can all work, especially knowing that your opponent has no way to guess what setup move and what coverage moves you are gonna use and it can give you a lot of setup opportunities (some sets I won’t mention but which can also put some work are the Block Imprison Transform set, a Choice lock set with Trick, a Calm Mind set…).
This set is pretty straightforward and is, in my opinion, the best lead for stack hazards offensive teams. Taunt with a 100 Base Speed is super good to prevent hazards on your side and to shut down almost all Defoggers in the tier (the only faster one I can think of is Tornadus-T). The last move can be Explosion to act as a true suicide lead, but there are several nice other options like Ice Beam to catch Landorus-T, Thunder Wave to cripple a faster Pokemon like Kartana, Weavile or Dragapult, Flare Blitz which hits Ferrothorn, Corviknight and the aforementioned Kartana and Weavile even though it is not as great as it used to be now that Excadrill felt down in usage.
Ok, here is the serious stuff. Demon Mew has been terrorizing the OU ladder recently, beating down a lot of unprepared teams. The first three moves are always Cosmic Power, Stored Power and a recovery move and the main debate is should the fourth one be Body Press or Taunt (even though some people prefer to debate on should we use Roost or Soft Boiled as a recovery move). Body Press used to be the common choice as it gives you a way to hit Dark types and to beat Calm Mind user as it also benefits from the Defense boost of Cosmic Power. On the other hand, Taunt shuts down a lot of counterplays to this set, preventing Toxic, Leech Seed, Haze, other Taunt… It also shut down other slow setup user and prevent a lot of defensive Pokemon to use their recovery move. The cost of running taunt is that you won’t be able to hit Dark types at all. However, as the Dark types in OU are basically only Bisharp, Tyranitar and Weavile, with the first two being not that much common, you will find a lot of Darkless teams against which Taunt will be a super good move. Another move you can use are Rest over Roost/Soft Boiled (with Body Press) to still beat Toxic users while not having Taunt. Lastly, if Leftovers is the item of choice to give you an easier setup time, Weakness Policy can be used, especially in offensive teams as it can give you a way to beat some defensive Pokemon who still take well a boosted Stored Power and can try to PP stall you out.
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 164-194 (40.5 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 4 Def Mew: 200-236 (49.5 - 58.4%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Kartana Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. +2 252 HP / 4 Def Mew: 204-240 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Mew @ Leftovers / @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD (there’s other spreads)
Calm Nature
- Spikes
- Knock Off / Ice Beam / Psychic
- Will-O-Wisp / Taunt / Thunder Wave / Body Press
- Roost
Utility Mew is not as threatening as the previous set but can be extremely annoying to face as it can Spikes up on a lot of Pokemon, and you will have to figure out its other moves before recklessly sending something to prevent it from doing so. This Mew has a lot of options with Will-O-Wisp to cripple most physical Pokemon (you can even run Colbur Berry to catch things like Weavile or Knock Off Kartana with a Will-O-Wisp or even a Body Press), Ice Beam to hit Landorus-T, Garchomp and Dragonite, Taunt to prevent Defog and status, Knock Off to annoy most switch-ins… Mew can also help dealing with some offensive threats, even though it doesn’t have the best defensive typing, thanks to its great bulk and its reliable recovery.
252 Atk Choice Band Kartana Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Colbur Berry Mew: 204-240 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Colbur Berry Mew: 151-178 (37.3 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mew: 184-217 (45.5 - 53.7%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mew: 175-207 (43.3 - 51.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Mew Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Landorus-Therian: 216-256 (56.5 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Setup sets (other than the well-known Cosmic Power one) are not the norm on Mew but are still super threatening and the main reason is that it is extremely hard to know what a Mew will click when it hasn’t revealed its moveset. Dragon Dance sets can fit in Hyper Offense teams and mainly screens teams as with screens you can easily setup several Dragon Dance and abuse Mew’s insane coverage with moves like Close Combat + Poltergeist, Flare Blitz, Brave Bird to beat things like Buzzwole… Swords Dance sets can run Drain Punch as a way to recover making them harder to wear down and thanks to Sucker Punch, Swords Dance Mew can beat things like Dragapult or Blacephalon that would try to revenge kill it. Lastly, Nasty Plot sets can abuse the fact that’s there not much good special walls in the tier now that Slowking became rarer and can run moves like Psyshock to threaten Blissey and Slowking Galar, Ice Beam for SpD Landorus-T, Flamethrower for Ferrothorn, Earth Power for Heatran, and you can even take revenge killer like Kartana and Weavile by surprise with Vacuum Wave. Sure, you can’t run all these moves at once and you will have to chose only three of them, but you can easily fit the moves you need to beat what your teammates struggle against.
Dragon Dance:
+1 252 Atk Mew Poltergeist vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dragapult: 378-446 (119.2 - 140.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Mew Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 260-306 (100.3 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Mew Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 186-222 (61.1 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Swords Dance:
+2 252 Atk Mew Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dragapult: 322-380 (101.5 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Mew Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Buzzwole: 536-632 (128.2 - 151.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Mew Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 248-294 (81.5 - 96.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Mew Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 416-490 (107.7 - 126.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Nasty Plot:
+2 252 SpA Mew Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 396-466 (55.4 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Mew Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Slowking-Galar: 262-310 (66.4 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Mew Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Landorus-Therian: 544-644 (142.4 - 168.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Mew Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Weavile: 336-396 (119.5 - 140.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Mew Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kartana: 346-408 (133.5 - 157.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Mew Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 428-504 (121.5 - 143.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Mew Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Heatran: 496-588 (128.4 - 152.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Having so much versality with extremely threatening offensive sets and useful defensive sets, but also with the ability to lure almost every single Pokemon in the metagame to helps its teammates, Mew is definitively a super solid option in the tier and an easy fit in a team. With all this, I think that Mew deserves to rise up from B to B+.
Would like to take back a nom I made earlier based off the shitty low ladder sets I keep running into. After trying it out for myself however, I have seen the light.
to B-/B
I take it all back the meteor beam set is so goated. I think the reason I underrated it so much is because the only sets I run into are the ass defensive/wp sets that never work properly. Meanwhile, where has this mon been hiding lol it’s insane. It can deadass bypass nearly all of its checks with one flinch (lmao remind u of any particular strat?) and with beast boost and a solid typing against priority, it snowballs pretty consistently. Only mon I’ve really struggled against using a set of automize, meteor beam, air slash, and flamethrower is spdef heatran (ttar I’m guessing too but I haven’t run into it much) which in most cases u just have to accept cele isn’t doing much until it’s sufficiently worn down, unless you get lucky with magma miss or like a triple flinch. Other than that everything the other guys said I now confidently support after my own testing. Sorry for the preemptive nom.
Tapu Fini is absolutely phenomenal in this metagame. With its expansive movepool and remarkable stats, it can be tailored to fit a wide variety of roles beyond the traditional (albeit very effective) utility set. For example, with Whirlpool, Taunt and Nature's Madness, Tapu Fini can be a devastating wallbreaker. Even excluding Nature's Madness, this trapping set still works in most cases, which can free up a move slot for another helpful utility or attacking move. In contrast, with its respectable 85 base speed, and crucial access to Trick, Fini can provide speed control with an effective Choice Scarf set. Alternatively, it can become a dangerous latent sweeper with Calm Mind. All sets provide excellent defensive utility thanks to Fini's typing and defensive stats. In my opinion, Tapu Fini's versatility and efficacy draw parallel to that of Landorus-T and Heatran, the latter of which I would even wager Fini outclasses. Hence, I believe Tapu Fini should be moved to S-.
Thank you for coming to my ted talk, I really pulled out my inner thesaurus for this one.
Tapu Fini is absolutely phenomenal in this metagame. With its expansive movepool and remarkable stats, it can be tailored to fit a wide variety of roles beyond the traditional (albeit very effective) utility set. For example, with Whirlpool, Taunt and Nature's Madness, Tapu Fini can be a devastating wallbreaker. Even excluding Nature's Madness, this trapping set still works in most cases, which can free up a move slot for another helpful utility or attacking move. In contrast, with its respectable 85 base speed, and crucial access to Trick, Fini can provide speed control with an effective Choice Scarf set. Alternatively, it can become a dangerous latent sweeper with Calm Mind. All sets provide excellent defensive utility thanks to Fini's typing and defensive stats. In my opinion, Tapu Fini's versatility and efficacy draw parallel to that of Landorus-T and Heatran, the latter of which I would even wager Fini outclasses. Hence, I believe Tapu Fini should be moved to S-.
Thank you for coming to my ted talk, I really pulled out my inner thesaurus for this one.
I 100 percent agree with this nom. The sheer amount of versatility and splashability that Tapu Fini holds in this current metagame is insane. By definition it should at least be S-.
Tapu Fini is absolutely phenomenal in this metagame. With its expansive movepool and remarkable stats, it can be tailored to fit a wide variety of roles beyond the traditional (albeit very effective) utility set. For example, with Whirlpool, Taunt and Nature's Madness, Tapu Fini can be a devastating wallbreaker. Even excluding Nature's Madness, this trapping set still works in most cases, which can free up a move slot for another helpful utility or attacking move. In contrast, with its respectable 85 base speed, and crucial access to Trick, Fini can provide speed control with an effective Choice Scarf set. Alternatively, it can become a dangerous latent sweeper with Calm Mind. All sets provide excellent defensive utility thanks to Fini's typing and defensive stats. In my opinion, Tapu Fini's versatility and efficacy draw parallel to that of Landorus-T and Heatran, the latter of which I would even wager Fini outclasses. Hence, I believe Tapu Fini should be moved to S-.
Thank you for coming to my ted talk, I really pulled out my inner thesaurus for this one.
In my opinion Fini is a good mon but I dont think its quite S- when comparing it to titans such as pult, heatran and lando. While for the most part what the posts above are saying is true, there's a couple things being exaggerated. For me the main thing is the "splashability" aspect, while Fini is a very good utility mon there's a issue, as a defensive water type its not very good and lacks longevity vs what you're trying to check. Unless you're running the cm dkiss set this pokemon has no actual recovery outside of leftovers, when you might say to yourself "well neither does lando or heatran which are also primarily performing defensive utility roles" and when thats true theres also a very important aspect which distinguishes the problem with fini from these two. Lando and Tran don't really need recovery in order to deal with what theyre checking, and while they still can be overwhelmed, this issue exists a lot more in fini where it suffers from the age old problem of needing to do more than it actually can. as i already mentioned, its a defensive water type without recovery which really hurts its matchup vs urshifu and heatran. while in theory these are winning matchups, these two can easily take advantage of finis lack of reliable recovery. fini is also often tasked with dealing with weavile, which often leads to a knocked off fini, which can lead to it get overwhelmed once again. theres also the matchup of dragapult where you can just get infinitely sball'd or u-turned until death. due to this fini does often face competition for the defensive water slot for pokemon not as susceptible to chip damage like toxapex or slowbro, and while these pokemon do perform different roles you rarely will ever see them stacked on a team. therefore its splashability is quite a overstatement and without much of a way to remedy the huge weakness to chip damage, i dont think fini should rise to s-. dont get me wrong the utility it offers is great and the cm set is a nice wincon but its not quite cut to the level of lando, pult and tran.
while writing this i kinda realized that tornadus embodies everything these points about fini are saying; great utility, one of if not the best defogger in the tier, can be a solid wincon, and has a variety of sets it can run while not being too overwhelmed by chip due to regenerator recovery. tornadus has been performing extremely well in tournament play and when its not as consistent of a ladder mon, recently its been actually doing really well on ladder. i dont really need to go too in depth with torn because well, its torn, but i think its a much more worthy candidate of S- than fini.
and that is that slowking-galar (and to some degree toxapex) makes its taunt + nature’s madness wall breaker set completely useless. Otherwise, it will pull Weight almost every match..
this is due to its ability to come in on so many moves, whether it’s a status move or a resisted hit and then apply immediate pressure, because there are few Pokémon that can switch in.
And even against tox and galar king, you can harass them back by using knock off. Galar king can actually be 1v1’d with a double nature’s madness followed by knock off.
after some consideration, I’m completely in support of Fini to S-, despite her struggles against ferrothorn, toxapex and galarian Slowking. It has significantly good matchups against almost everything else.
—
Now speaking of Galarian slowking. It’s possibly the best A+ Pokémon right now. Massive threat.
Bulky, but still highly offensive Pokémon, are extremely useful right now. And galarian Slowking has it in spades.
The only thing holding it back is that both of its stabs have common immunities. So it kinda forces diverse coverage moves where you always miss out on hitting something.
personally I prefer the 252HP/252Def bold set to the standard AV set. It’s much more difficult to switch into, and harder to trade hits with. Since very few of its most common switch ins enjoy a paralysis or a black sludge trick. It also carries more weight against teams utilising the trendiest threats right now, such as galarian zapdos.
Tapu Fini was the closest it got to S- during the WCoP and OLT metagames, as it was fairly uncontested as a bulky water at the time. This was due to it compressing a check to Weavile and Urshifu-R in one slot due to how incredibly widespread this said core was, while having access to having a slew of different sets that could readily force progress, a really nifty defensive typing, and access to Misty Surge. At the time I did see it as being S- worthy since you saw it on a majority of bulky offenses and had the ability to do some pretty polarizing things with Calm Mind and/or Whirlpool variants; however, most importantly, its longevity often defined the game state since it was generally tasked to check quite a bit at the time when the metagame was still adapting to the rise of bulky offense.
However, Urshifu-R use has dropped a solid bit with the uptick in Slowbro use, which was a fairly unsurprising reactionary measure against rising Victini, Garchomp, Galarian Zapdos, and Melmetal use. Furthermore, double Steel-type cores tend to check Weavile solidly well just enough to where it can't get too out of hand, so having a Weavile + Urshifu-R check in one slot isn't really as necessary as it once was. Toxapex is also becoming more common again, which augments the competition on more balanced structures, and we're seeing a little more Slowking again on top of that.
Tapu Fini is still certainly a phenomenal, bonafide pick especially considering it has numerous, quite powerful sets that can adapt to quite a few offensive structures in addition to its very strong defensive typing, but I wouldn't quite call it near S- anymore since the niches that made it so definitively strong are starting to become blindsided by the defensive metagame becoming more stabilized.
B+ -> A-/A Agree
This should be a fairly obvious rise based on the gigantic spike in Galarian Zapdos use we've seen in SCL and on the ladder, demonstrating it to be a nuclear pick able to take numerous picks by forcing crucial damage or just outright KOing threats before knocking itself out. It has a great speed tier, exploits the sky-high Lando-T usage, and is criminally hard to pivot into without a Kanto Zapdos, Slowbro, or Tapu Koko. This one is a no-brainer imo.
B+ -> B-/C+ Disagree, drop to B
Slowking certainly is not as trendy as its Galarian and evolutionary counterpart, and I do think a drop is warranted to highlight how it is notably less practical compared to Slowbro in the current landscape, but I do think Assault Vest is an underrated set that gives it a fairly practical niche due to its access to Dragon Tail allowing it to disrupt the hell out of teams that have natural Future Sight counterplay. Unlike its Galarian counterpart, its AV set on the other hand provides a slightly better Urshifu-R and much stronger Heatran and Tapu Lele check. Teleport is still a pretty solid set too with a practical niche in checking Tapu Lele and does enjoy the lowered use of Urshifu-R, but in general I think base Slowking's niche is overall mostly saved by AV.
A+ -> S- Agree
I've seen Tornadus-T as an S- level threat for a long time, and while most people find that to be a contentious take, it is without a doubt one of the most flexible Pokemon in the format with a very great Speed tier able to provide quite a bit for teams. It can revenge quite a few things and boasts a criminally underrated and customizable Nasty Plot. Utility and AV are very strong and flexible sets that blanket check things like Kartana, Landorus-T, and Dragapult (for AV), and both are able to do a lot of disruption throughout the course of the game with Knock Off and healthy coverage options. Furthermore it is a superb pivot able to exploit threats like Heatran and position dangerous progress-makers fairly reliably. Tornadus-T is waiting for a tier-breaking breakthrough, but for the meantime it's a very comfortable S- pick in my opinion.
A- -> A
Kind of piggybacking off of the above blurbs, Slowbro use is rising again as the bonafide blanket check to the much more hostile physical metagame with spiking Victini and Galarian Zapdos usage. It's really easy to fit on a lot of structures, including bulkier and even more offensive structures due to access to the infamous Futureport, which is easier to get off again, alongside its classically great bulk and defensive typing. Toxic greatly dwindles its ability to pivot into stronger neutral targets in the long term, and it is fairly reliant on Rocky Helmet to punish U-turn spam, but I do think it has the flexibility and the necessary rise in use to warrant a rise back to A.
B+ -> A-
Roost + 3A is a very legitimate set with the nifty ability to punish U-turn spam, check its Galarian counterpart, and apply unrelenting pressure against Steel-type cores. Pressure has some potential as well but Static in general is a fairly strong reason to consider it since it can blank non-Galarian Slowking bulky offenses pretty nicely with its very strong 3 move coverage and respectable Speed tier as is.
B -> B+
Aegislash is a Pokemon that is insanely slept on with a defensive typing that lets it exploit things like Tapu Lele as well as Choice locks/physical threats thanks to King's Shield, and Substitute variants make progress like all fuck, especially with Shadow Ball drop fishing. Trust me and just use Substitute + Kings Shield + Shadow Ball + Close Combat; I'll make a post talking more about it later when I wrap up college work for the week.
C -> C+/B-
Go take Galarian Zapdos out for a drink to celebrate not being trash anymore.
A+ to Lower: Kind of unfortunate really. Corv suffers from Mandibuzz syndrome where it is tasked with doing wayyyy to much for a mon with middling bulk to handle. Most of the time just running corv is not enough to handle everything on a team. On top of that, Magnezone is at its peak rn and of course corv hates that. Still a solid mon it’s just not the titan it was a little while ago.
A -> A+: Actually surprised no one has made this nom before me. Timid Kart is a legitimate large threat, and with corv and buzz falling off kart can kind of just shred teams. Also in my opinion scarftana is prob the best scarfer in the tier.
A -> A+: I’ve made this nom quite a few times but I guess we’re doing it again. Double steel is an amazing core rn and Melm is one of the key pieces in it. For how absurdly strong it is, it packs a ton of defensive utility in it as well. Checking mons like kart weav and a few others depending on the set while also being really hard to switch into is incredible. AV also answers Kyurem pretty well (kind of).
A -> A-: Tapu Koko does it better. While Zera outspeed pult, that’s pretty much it for reasons to use it over koko. Being hard walled by the far and away best mon in the tier is not the best trait. Koko can at least whittle it down quite fast, while zera has to knock it at least five times for it to die. Running toxic eats into its offensive qualities, as now you are losing to ferrothorn. Once it does manage to get past Lando, it now poses a kind of mediocre offensive threat. Bulk up and Calm mind are neat, but if your opponent is semi competent, they’ll just keep their Lando alive. This mon needs ice punch badly.
B+? (Too lazy to check)-> A-/A: This mon is CRAZY (definitely fits it’s character too lol). This is probably the best offensive mon in the entire tier. This mon has literally zero checks, mostly because trick is a broken move. The mons that do kind of check it kind of blow otherwise. Being weak to rocks is like the only thing keeping this monster in check.
B+ -> A- or A: Don’t have much to say here, besides I’m glad people are finally using this mon! I’ve nommed it up every time I’ve made a post on this VR, and I’m glad people are starting to see how strong it is. Taking advantage of Lando is an amazing trait in the current meta.
A- to lower: Somebody recently nommed this down, and wasn’t completely shit on for doing so! This mon being above Dragonite on the vr is a joke. Funnily enough I think it’s better rn than it’s been in the past six months, but it’s still super meh. Offensive sets get crushed by anything faster than it, which is a huge problem cause most teams run a mon faster than it. Even defense runs mons like blissey and clef to stop it dead in its tracks. Also it’s usage is piss poor. Please put this mon out of its misery.
C -> to higher: This mon has seen quite a bit of usage recently. Having infinite speed control and infinite hazard removal in one slot is pretty cool. With hippo falling off, Lando and chomp are the only common mons that stop this dude. Both are quite prone to chip from other mons they have to check, which leaves the opposing team super overwhelmed and scrambling to keep their ground alive. Just Elekis presence on a team puts pressure on the opponent.
B- to B: in a metagame where kyurem and Tapu lele are some of the best offensive mons in the tier, jirachi finds a place to shine. Also being a steel with semi reliable recovery is p cool. It’s also jirachi so it can p much run whatever it wants and beat whatever it wants. Someone will find a set for this mon that breaks the tier eventually.
B- to B: pretty cool offensive mon rn. Being able to set up on quite a few common Pokémon is pretty nice. Not really checked by anything in the tier besides Fini, which isn’t the hardest mon the chip. Defensive sets are okay, but kind of exploitable.
: we need this mon more than ever now. With kyurem and lele at peak broken, Scizor checks both of their common sets quite effectively.
: yeah, I’m not fully convinced yet. Def could see a rise to B, but I don’t think it’s good enough for anything above. Seems kind of matchup fishy. Does pretty well vs ox the fox hail tho, pretty cool.
-> Drop [Disagreed]
to B
to A
to B
to A-
to S- (hopefully disagreeing with finch is ok haha- i feel it fits on almost any archetype right now, the sub roost DD set is gaining usage and is very good, specs continues to wallbreak and sets like nevermeltice can catch opponents off guard with its calcs)
to A-
to B+ (B would be fine, too)
to B (B+ would be fine, too)
to A+ (strongly agreed)
to A+ (strongly agreed)
to A- (not A, though)
to B-
to A- (strongly agreed)
to UR (this mon is awful unless you have insane luck, just use glowking)
to C
to B+
to B-
to B-
to A-
to B (as good as if not better than barraskewda. shouldn't be so far apart)
and 
to B- (or at least C+, sun is just as good as sand as a weather archetype)
to B+ (only rise to B/B-, it still has problems getting past a lot of rock resists)
to C+ (gets super low usage (lower than blastoise btw) , outclassed outside of TR, not even a guaranteed slot on there)
to B (it does what it's always done, has its niche)
to C- (it's still bad imo, just use lele)
to A+ (i'm fairly neutral on this but for now i think it's still not as good as the other A+ mons but one of the best in A.)
to A- (specs zapdos is super good right now (with and without rain) since it can lure mons like spdef lando-t/hippo and 2hko them, and as a defensive defogger it's less passive than corv too. its weaknesses are easily covered by a steel-type partner.)
to C/C- (why is this unranked? everyone knows what this does - exactly the same thing as 
but with more physical bulk instead of hazard immunity, meaning it's on teams with double defog and good knock absorbers due to its higher physical defense which allows it to take more u-turns. it feels weird that people say 
has a niche but this mon doesn't. its usage at #63 puts it above B+ mons like 
and 
. both of which should be higher than 
to C/C- (i've posted in detail about this mon before, and will continue to nominate it. i'l try not to repeat myself too much but this is the best shell smasher in the tier, with 
and 
also sharing similar niches on HO (i wouldn't oppose those being ranked too). with terrain pulse, aura sphere and ice beam as options it can cover almost every water resist. very potent wincon that has less trouble setting up than the alternatives.)
to C (is a good alternative to 
to B-/B
to S-
