Resource SS OU DLC2 Viability Ranking Thread [See Post #1517 on Page 61]

Finchinator

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bruh. not only is heatran making that a pipe-dream but you competely leave out other sun sweepers. venusaur or even leafeon is better as a sun sweeper than charizard imo. charizard somewhat softer than leafeon and much softer than venusaur after a growth boost in the sun. zard also has meh bulk and average speed. As for leafeon and venusaur having lower speed stats, the simple answer is chlorrphyl.
I opened the thread explicitly to questions about the shifts, not whatever this self-fulfilling rebuttal is intended to be. I do not see any questions and I see multiple mentions of Leafeon, so this surely does not belong.

If you want to nominate Charizard for UR, you have every right to do so once the thread is re-opened for that purpose. I will happily bring it up to the VR council with your points kept in mind at the appropriate time. Until then, please follow the rules. Thank you!
 
What's the rationale behind Amoonguss dropping? I'd imagine it'd be doing better rather than worse now with the rise of Urshifu-R and Fini and the constant demand for Knock Off absorbers, I've used it a decent amount and it's still quite reliable.
 
im curious about the drop of Excadrill and Rhyperior, Excadrill is still strong as a sand sweeper being able to take care of most teams and even its checks with help or even as a lead on HO teams, and Rhyperior can still be useful as a check to Heatran and Volcarona
 

Fusion Flare

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say, why'd zapdos-g rise? I thought the whole "regenerator mons eat through its HP quicker than acid" making it not all that good of a breaker thing was holding it back.

Also, on the topic of fighting types, ain't it funny how all Buzzwole had to do to start re-emerging from the drop it had during early CT
was to stop using those shitty defensive variants that let in just about every defensive pokemon out there?
 
I think the rises are just about what was being expected but Vic and Blace are 2 mons I am still a bit curios about. Most of the mons that rose have seem to have a good matchup against them like Tran, Pex, Fini, Kommo O, Hippo, etc. The meta game trends seem be going even most against them than before yet they rose. What new functions/sets are they fulfilling/using?

Grimm rise is also interesting as I have mostly seen Koko as the preferred screens setter on teams. Wonder about this too.

As to drops, I have little clue about most below the C ranks. I have not seen these mons in OU in a long time let alone use them so I have so idea of why they dropped. From what I understand, the C ranks were not updated for a long time so mons like Zarude, Obstagoon, Diggersby were part of the older Spectrier meta and were deserving of a drop since then.
Would love to know the reasoning of the changes to the C ranks. These mons have been agreed to be niche but what have made them worse in the current meta game trends?
 
Really agree with most changes, but I don't understand why Gyarados to UR. Sure, it can only really be used on HO but there it always felt like it has better snowball potential and better typing than its main competition dragonite.
 

Katy

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Why the rises for Glowking and Fini?
Tapu Fini can check a handful of metagame staples such as Weavile and Urshifu-R which are also heavily used at the moment. It can also check Heatran to a decent degree and its a nice measure to pressure Pokemon such as Dragapult and Hydreigon as well. Its Choice Scarf + Trick set excells really well as a speed control, which furthermore is able to cripple common special walls such as Blissey, Slowking and Galarking with tricking them a Choice Scarf to lock them into a move, which renders them useless at 1 point, as they dislike being locked into 1 move, as it shuts down their entire utility they offer. It has also other great sets such as Taunt + Calm Mind to overcome obstacles such as Toxapex and Slowking as well as Blissey with the help of Misty Terrain to prevent status, moreover it can also trap Toxapex with Wjirlpool and Taunt, which was also ocossionally sued in WCoP.


Galar Slowking however has a great typing alongside a great measure to mess with strong special attackers such as Nidoking, Volcarona, and Heatran. It can check them reliably with its strong coverage options. Galar Slowking also offers a great set with Calm Mind + Slack Off + 2 Attacks for being a capable wallbreaker on its own, with being able to clean up in the lategame with different item choices such as Black Sludge or Shuca Berry + Ice Beam to surprise Garchomp, Landorus-T and other Pokemon. Its Assualt Vest set is still the most used tho and can help to check those Pokemon with its great natural special defense stat alongside Future Sight which offers progress and its great coverage options such as Scald, Hydro Pump, Fire-coverage, Erathquake (for heatran as example).

Both Tapu Fini and Galar Slowking are remarkable Pokemon currently, and therefore the rise, as they heavily influence WCoP as of late.

Really agree with most changes, but I don't understand why Gyarados to UR. Sure, it can only really be used on HO but there it always felt like it has better snowball potential and better typing than its main competition dragonite.
Gyarados was great during the Dynamax Era, where - coupled with Sticky Webs users, it was able to sweep easily, but a lot of metagame changes caused it to get lower and lower in the Viability. Pokemon currently such as Rotom-Wash, Tapu Bulu, Tangrowth, Tapu Fini, Rillaboom, Kartana, and other great physical walls such as Zapdos and Dragonite stand in its way and they are all heavily used. Furthermore Gyarados is outclassed by other physical sweepers and lategame cleaners such as Weavile, Garchomp, Zeraora, and Urshifu-R, which offer either a better typing, a better initial speed to pressure their opposition better from the get go, or with the benefit of coverage- and momentum-options to being able to pressure the opposing teams better. Take Urshifu-R as example which with the help of U-turn is able to pivot out on bad matchups with bringing a teampartner in relatively safely. All of that Gyarados can't offer and therefore isn't worth running on an offensive / hyper offensive oriented teamstructure.
 
Why is mimikyu unranked? I know its not that good and usally outclassed but i figured disguise, ghost priority and sd along with good utility moves would give it a niche? Something i missed in the meta maybe?

Also recently got it on my switch and i have been keen to use it alongside clef and dragopault as a sorta ghost/fairy spam thing.
 

TailGlowVM

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im curious about the drop of Excadrill and Rhyperior, Excadrill is still strong as a sand sweeper being able to take care of most teams and even its checks with help or even as a lead on HO teams, and Rhyperior can still be useful as a check to Heatran and Volcarona
Excadrill is easily walled by common physically defensive mons like Corv, Skarm, Buzzwole, Tangrowth, Rotom-W and Landorus-T, and revenge killed by common priority users like Urshifu and Weavile, so it doesn't always do much. Rhyperior is just a relic of Rotom-H days - we have Heatran and Dragonite to check Volc, and Dragonite, Garchomp, Slowking, Fini and others to check Tran now.

I think the rises are just about what was being expected but Vic and Blace are 2 mons I am still a bit curios about. Most of the mons that rose haverreded screens setter on teams. Wonder about this too.
why did blacephalon rise? seems worse than the other fire and ghost types roaming the tier
Victini is played as a moderately fast offensive pivot with some useful defensive utility (checks Clef, Scizor, some Volc sets, etc). Blacephalon is just an insanely powerful Choice Specs wallbreaker with few switchins - I recommend looking at WcoP replays, and it's probably part of the reason Kommo-o rose as well.
Grimmsnarl has a solid niche over Koko in checking Dragapult, which is the worst Pokemon for screens teams to face as it outruns nearly everything viable and hits through screens with Infiltrator.

Why did Weavile rise, but Bisharp drop?
How did Pex rise back to A+? Future Sight is still rampant, and Heatran is as good as ever

Also, why did Bisharp fall to A-?
WCoP is your friend here again - Weavile has a way better offensive typing than Bisharp, a much better speed tier, and isn't forced into the same mindgames against Dragapult. Bisharp had pretty poor winrate in WCoP Round 1 and seems to be mostly outclassed by Weavile at the moment.
Toxapex provides a check to rising threats like Weavile and Urshifu as well as the ubiquitous Dragapult, and you'll see in WCoP Future Sight is declining heavily at the moment, like Finch explained above.


What's the rationale behind Amoonguss dropping? I'd imagine it'd be doing better rather than worse now with the rise of Urshifu-R and Fini and the constant demand for Knock Off absorbers, I've used it a decent amount and it's still quite reliable.
Amoonguss is outclassed by Toxapex and Glowking as Regenerator Poison-types, and Tangrowth as Regenerator Grass-type, which can cover most of the stuff it checks well, and crucially, unlike Tang, Amoonguss can't check Kartana without HP Fire, or Ground-types at all. Its main niche over them of Spore isn't so useful in a tier where Tapu Koko and Tapu Fini are pretty common as well. The role compression it provides if you're really desperate for it is enough to keep it ranked, but you'd almost always be better off with something else.

Why is mimikyu unranked? I know its not that good and usally outclassed but i figured disguise, ghost priority and sd along with good utility moves would give it a niche? Something i missed in the meta maybe?

Also recently got it on my switch and i have been keen to use it alongside clef and dragopault as a sorta ghost/fairy spam thing.
Mimikyu sadly is just too weak, slow, and frail to be useful in OU. Try Aegislash for a Ghost with Swords Dance and Shadow Sneak, which is slower but has the bulk to utilise its solid defensive typing to set up, is way stronger, and also can get fantastic coverage with Ghost STAB + Close Combat.
 
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What’s the reason for Crawdaunt’s drop?
Crawdaunt is incredibly difficult to justify over Weavile or even Bisharp as a dark due to its heavy reliance on pivots, bulk so bad Pult's sball 2hkos, increasing number of solid checks (tapu bulu, tapu fini, and urshifu water being the best examples), non existent setup oppurtunities with SD, and difficulty coming into a game repeatedly even with the aforementioned pivots. It forces out very little of the offensive metagame beyond Volcarona without substantial chip and therefore is largely dead weight vs the much more rapid pace the metagame has taken compared to its earlier iterations. Buzzwole being an actual pokemon on fatter builds also does not help matters at all, nor the fall in Slowking pivot spam BOs.

Speaking of slowking
How did Pex rise back to A+? Future Sight is still rampant, and Heatran is as good as ever

Also, why did Bisharp fall to A-?
Toxapex has simply reclaimed its crown as the best bulky water in the format, Future sight has been on the decline for about 2 months now arguably and has gone from one of the most rampant forms of breaker support in the tier to something that slowking gets off maybe twice a game at most with solid counterplay via hazard stack, offensive pressure, or even Tspikes+Knock from pex itself. Gking and a few misc offensive mons still use the move, yea, but the level of consistency those provide is still usually only like once or twice a game, bar Gking who mostly just spams it for extra chip instead of Breaker+FS scenarios.

As for Heatran, Shed shell is a valid set (helps vs stuff like sand tomb zor and whirlpool fini as well) that Heatran absolutely has to keep in mind or else it'll eat a knock and easily lose to a build that can maintain rocks or solid pressure vs it. Even beyond that though, Tran has far more checks than just Slowking (itself, twave knock clef, chomper, spdef lando, and Hippo just to name a few) and Toxapex's huge defensive prescence, ranging from Weavile and Clefable to Dragapult and Urshifu Water, makes running it over the fairly defensively limited Slowking well worth it.

Finally, Bisharp is just in a tough spot after being the shining star of a now incredibly overpressured playstyle in Slowking pivot spam. CB has lost alot of relevance (all of it to some), its tour winrate is pretty poor, and SD struggles with alot of metagame trends like Koko, Scarf Fini, and Urshi Water, though its far from a bad pokemon.
 
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Martin

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I don’t have many qualms with this shift (glad ppl aren’t overrating Slowking/downplaying Pex anymore lol), but there’s one shift that I really don’t understand, so I wanna hear the rationale behind it. Sry if this reads like a nom that’s not my intent.

Why did Crawdaunt drop two subranks to C+ rather than one to B-? I can understand a drop, as the meta’s a lot less friendly than it used to be (Gomi’s post makes sense to me), but at least IMO it’s inarguably better than everything else in C+ and very in-line with the B- mons, so it kinda stuck out as a weird jump to me.
 
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Great VR shift imo, really nice to see the C ranks getting cleaned up a bit. I feel as tho zarude could have dropped further than C+ though, as a relic of the spectrier meta. Curious to see reasoning that keeps it on par with mons like the latis and terrakion. Also, what's with bulu and victini to B+? Seems like they are strictly worse than the rest of that rank.
 
Why is Regieleki still at C? I have seen a lot of UR or C- nomination for this mon, but is there a reason to stay Regieleki at C?
Why is Glastrier at C+? TR specific mons are mostly at C-(Hatt, Mak-A) or C(Cresselia), and ice horse is near useless outside of TR.
 
Soo why did victini rise to B+, it seems like a B pokemon, it struggle sto keep up with threats like heatran, toxapex, dragapult, weavile, the rising tapu fini and dragonite. I may be missing tho since I have been out of date with the world cup and also have not seen very many noms on it
 

TailGlowVM

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Why did Conkeldurr (and other trick room mons) drop at least I don't see any significant changes that warrant the drop? and why did Rhyperior get UR it still threatens most deffogers thanks to its typing and even smack down as well as being able to check some beasts like Volc and Zera?
Trick Room is a pretty inconsistent playstyle that people haven't been seriously using for a while, and could probably be unranked. Like I said, Rhyperior is a relic of the Rotom-H meta - we have way better Grounds like Chomp and Lando and actually reliable Volcarona checks in Heatran and Dragonite.

Great VR shift imo, really nice to see the C ranks getting cleaned up a bit. I feel as tho zarude could have dropped further than C+ though, as a relic of the spectrier meta. Curious to see reasoning that keeps it on par with mons like the latis and terrakion. Also, what's with bulu and victini to B+? Seems like they are strictly worse than the rest of that rank.
Soo why did victini rise to B+, it seems like a B pokemon, it struggle sto keep up with threats like heatran, toxapex, dragapult, weavile, the rising tapu fini and dragonite. I may be missing tho since I have been out of date with the world cup and also have not seen very many noms on it
Zarude is a usable stallbreaker that also soft-checks Dragapult and completely shuts down Slowking, two very prominent Pokemon in this meta, and it switches into strong Knock Offs pretty safely as well. You should see the WCoP replays for what Bulu and Victini can do, but Bulu is a strong wallbreaker that nothing can switch into, and Victini is used as a moderately fast offensive pivot that can hit fairly hard with its high base power attacks and decent coverage while also providing some useful defensive utility (softcheck to Lele and Scizor, walls some Volc sets, Buzzwole, etc)

Why is Regieleki still at C? I have seen a lot of UR or C- nomination for this mon, but is there a reason to stay Regieleki at C?
Why is Glastrier at C+? TR specific mons are mostly at C-(Hatt, Mak-A) or C(Cresselia), and ice horse is near useless outside of TR.
I would personally not use Regieleki, but it's a usable screens setter, with the near-unique niche of Rapid Spin and outspeeding everything, which is obviously useful for hyper offense, so the VR council must consider it to offer enough to hyper offense to be rankable.
Glastrier has a small niche outside Trick Room thanks to its titanic bulk and great offensive typing, allowing it to wallbreak against bulkier teams easily and nearly always trade with something, like Melmetal. I'm not completely certain how you should use it, but I think a team that properly builds around its strengths will find it rewarding. If Storm Zone has used something, usually it's an alright Pokemon.

I nominated Toxicroak here and just wanted to know the reasoning behind leaving it UR
As a fellow Toxicroak fan, I'm sorry to say you didn't have very convincing replays, and I must admit Croak is a bit flawed. It's frail even with investment, extremely slow, weak, and dies to Future Sight, and it pretty much needs to be on the already niche playstyle of rain. It's just something I had a bit of fun with on the ladder, I am against ranking it and generally recommending it for serious teams.
 
Trick Room is a pretty inconsistent playstyle that people haven't been seriously using for a while, and could probably be unranked. Like I said, Rhyperior is a relic of the Rotom-H meta - we have way better Grounds like Chomp and Lando and actually reliable Volcarona checks in Heatran and Dragonite.



Zarude is a usable stallbreaker that also soft-checks Dragapult and completely shuts down Slowking, two very prominent Pokemon in this meta, and it switches into strong Knock Offs pretty safely as well. You should see the WCoP replays for what Bulu and Victini can do, but Bulu is a strong wallbreaker that nothing can switch into, and Victini is used as a moderately fast offensive pivot that can hit fairly hard with its high base power attacks and decent coverage while also providing some useful defensive utility (softcheck to Lele and Scizor, walls some Volc sets, Buzzwole, etc)


I would personally not use Regieleki, but it's a usable screens setter, with the near-unique niche of Rapid Spin and outspeeding everything, which is obviously useful for hyper offense, so the VR council must consider it to offer enough to hyper offense to be rankable.
Glastrier has a small niche outside Trick Room thanks to its titanic bulk and great offensive typing, allowing it to wallbreak against bulkier teams easily and nearly always trade with something, like Melmetal. I'm not completely certain how you should use it, but I think a team that properly builds around its strengths will find it rewarding. If Storm Zone has used something, usually it's an alright Pokemon.


As a fellow Toxicroak fan, I'm sorry to say you didn't have very convincing replays, and I must admit Croak is a bit flawed. It's frail even with investment, extremely slow, weak, and dies to Future Sight, and it pretty much needs to be on the already niche playstyle of rain. It's just something I had a bit of fun with on the ladder, I am against ranking it and generally recommending it for serious teams.
Why Melmetal rose btw? It is completely shutdown by corvi and pex, two mons you see pretty much everywhere in OU.
 

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