Resource SS OU DLC2 Viability Ranking Thread [See Post #1517 on Page 61]

Status
Not open for further replies.
I might not be the most experienced player but I still think I can manage a nice grasp on the meta. So I do have some noms, hopefully they are well received. Obviously some of these have been said before, but I really enjoy and support some of them and disagree with others.

Rises:
:Weavile: --> S-. Weav is truly a force to be reckoned with right now. Many games are decided on giving weav that Swords Dance and the power of Triple Axel with the priority of Ice Shard provides ample STAB both ways. Dark type is always nice and it checks what most consider to be the best offensive mon in the game right now. The only things holding it back from true S are the fact that fighting moves make it cry and accuracy issues in Axel (which may be just me)

:Tapu Fini: --> A+. Just an all around amazing mon. It provides plenty of checks to many major threats and has an incredible utility movepool where it can serve various roles. Utility is king, and it especially helps that Fini can mostly shirk off major threats in the most popular core in OU right now: Pult/Shifu.

:Tapu Koko: --> A+. I think Koko comes in as the best electric mon in the current OU meta. Not because of its ability to sweep like a traditional electric type, but because it is undoubtedly one of the absolute best pivots currently in the game. I absolutely love its ability to set up and I love the large movepool of useful niches it can fill and enjoy. The ability to fill many roles is just as important if not more than the ability to hit stuff until it dies so Koko deserves a raise off that merit.

:Tornadus-Therian: --> A+. How has this mon not seen its rise yet? I don't often use it myself, but Torn is just an all around great mon. The longevity of it is terrifying and its movepool is quite powerful. The only thing holding it back from the level of respect that its earthy brother commands is the fact that its movepool is inaccurate and a little less versatile.

:Buzzwole: --> A. I think the big bug actually has a really nice spot in the meta right now. With a very nice movepool capable of threatening a lot of top mons and his typing he canbe a great ground/bird check and pairs super well with a mon like Glowking. I also want to point out I think the Rocky Helmet is the way to go for Buzz as it provides consistent chip at many of the mons Buzz can survive against as is like Urshifu and Kartana.

:Scizor: --> A. There's a lot of role compression in Scizor and I absolutely adore his current sand tomb set to deal with some potent threats such as heatran. While not usually the feature player on a team, it provides an excellent partner to many a mon.

:Rillaboom: --> A. I think everyone else will disagree, but I think the boom deserves the slight bump to sit among the A tier mons. Although it has a lot of threats, Grassy Glide go Brr is actually still a very strong priority move. It can OHKO Weavile (it survives an ice shard, even with a SD and glide has prio over Triple Axel if they do not switch) and Urshifu and has a sneaky OHKO on Pult with Knock Off if they are locked out of Draco Meteor or with prediction. I've also been a big supporter of dropping Wood Hammer and adding Close Combat, where it can then OHKO common switch-ins like Heatran. It still has some big weaknesses and checks, but I think the mons in the A tier all have similar weaknesses.

:Mew: --> A-. I love Mew. If you read my comment, you would see that I highly value versatility, and Mew has that in abundance. You can do nearly everything utility-wise with this guy. Also Mew is hands down one of the better leads in OU.

:Blacephalon:/:Aegislash: --> B+(with Blacephalon possibly going A- soon even!) Ghost has always been strong, but the type finds itself in a very good place in the current meta. There really aren't that many checks, and the few there are can even be dealt with by these 2 ghost mons, albeit not as consistently.

:Cloyster: --> B-. I actually really like Cloyster in the meta. By no means is he the best but the Shell Smash + King's Rock is a really annoying and, at the same time, really fun gimmick that can be surprisingly effective. Cloyster has too many downsides to be considered a top tier threat, but B- reflects mons you really shouldn't underestimate and need to at least consider more in teambuilding.

:Quagsire: --> C+. Cratersmash sold me. See his post. Love it.

:Torkoal:/:Venusaur: --> C+. Ok, I'm not crazy. I think Sun is a fairly decent archetype in the current meta. Venusaur has almost no switch-ins under the Sun and a banded V-Create under sun from these 2's common partner is about the scariest thing ever. Torkoal is clearly the best sun setter in the game, and where Torkoal goes Venusaur goes. I can say I could even see Sun move to B-, but I like to approach things with trepidation.

Falls:

:Garchomp: --> A. Will I get flack for this? I hope not. But 2 of the biggest threats in the OU force it to switch in Urshifu and Weavile and it really even struggles vs top utility like Tapu Fini. Is it still very solid? Yes., But it probably no longer deserves that cusp of the S rank.

:Zeraora: --> A/A-. With ground being a nearly mandatory type in OU right now, the prominence of Lando, and the absolute lack of recovery for Zera it already had enough to stay out of the S tier. However, I think Zera is worse off then he was even recently. Koko is coming in as a rather superior Electric mon and, though I wouldn't say Zera is bad, his flaws are being exemplified because of it.

:Blissey: --> B+. I understand the viability of Blissey. I get that she checks some top mons, especially Pult. However, I really dislike the fact that physical wallbreakers, which are abundant in the current meta, cause such great pain to Bliss. If there were a couple less physical breakers popular right now Bliss would deserve to reside in the A/A- area like she does, but I don't think you can justify it with mons like Weavile, Urshifu, and even Buzzwole so abundant.

:Zapdos: --> B+. For a mon that is a flying, electric type with Defog potential it isn't the best at any of those 3. There are better picks most of the time for a bird, better for an electric, and better for a defogger. Not saying Zapdos is bad by any means, and some teams can fit him if they try. But he finds difficulty justifying his use a bit.

:Bisharp: --> B+/B. It really isn't that bisharp is bad. Actually, bisharp is quite good. It mostly is just the fact that there's very little reason to run it. Weavile is heads and shoulders above bisharp right now and it is going to take a really specific team to justify using this instead of the latter. Sometimes a mon doesn't need to be worse because of itself to drop, just because of a better option.

:Reuniclus: --> B-. When you can't get it done vs what I would consider the top 3 offensive threats in the game (Weavile, Pult, and Urshifu) you can't really justify being high on the Viability Ranking. Not to mention Kartana and Kyurem also checking it. Taunt has seen plenty of use as well. There really isn't much going for this guy unless everything goes his way.



:Pelipper:/:Barraskewda:/:Kingdra: --> C+. I think it's been said before but Rain is relatively weak in the current meta. I love the archetype, but this is just not the time for it and the VR should reflect that. It is no better than Sun and I could even make the argument that Sun is maybe a bit stronger.

I hope these nominations seem reasonable. I'm not the best player but I love analysis. I'm also sure I missed a couple :)

:Mandibuzz: --> B-/C+. Mandibuzz is truly in a bad place right now. With the rise of other birds that are nearly all around better equipped to deal with the current meta Buzz just kind of falls off.

The only one I don't really agree with is Mandibuzz. I think it's fine staying where it is right now, especially because it's one of the few mons that can check both Dragapult and Blacephelon specs sets as of right now. Two mons that are being top threats in the meta right now. It also does pretty well versus Lando, so it's not extremely outclassed by Corvi, still outclassed though. So it's fine in B- right now IMO.
 
:Cloyster: --> B-. I actually really like Cloyster in the meta.... Shell Smash + King's Rock is a really annoying and, at the same time, really fun gimmick.
Smogon players:


Also, Scizor should rise
bulky sets don't die and sometimes your opponent just make the big oops of letting it get +4 and they lose. I think LO + Superpower sets merit more use, both for sweeping power, and bopping common switchins to death with Superpower

Kyurem should rise
Another good scarf user in the scarf wars, but it's the pressure stalling sets that need the attention. Things is absolutely broken in those kyurem/taunt Tornadus/spikes teams.
 
The only one I don't really agree with is Mandibuzz. I think it's fine staying where it is right now, especially because it's one of the few mons that can check both Dragapult and Blacephelon specs sets as of right now. Two mons that are being top threats in the meta right now. It also does pretty well versus Lando, so it's not extremely outclassed by Corvi, still outclassed though. So it's fine in B- right now IMO.
That's fair although I will say that it is currently actually b+. I don't think it warrants being that high to be a check to a couple things. It's too lackluster vs most everything else. Plus there are just plain better checks. B- feels better
 
The only one I don't really agree with is Mandibuzz. I think it's fine staying where it is right now, especially because it's one of the few mons that can check both Dragapult and Blacephelon specs sets as of right now. Two mons that are being top threats in the meta right now. It also does pretty well versus Lando, so it's not extremely outclassed by Corvi, still outclassed though. So it's fine in B- right now IMO.
...You do realize practically every dragapult set runs u-turn and mandibuzz won't like to take a draco meteor? Yeah, cool blace "check", its not gonna like to take a flamethrower. and do you realize lando-t 1: runs u-turn and 2: might be running stone edge? Also if your HDBs gets knocked off then you get chipped easy as bonk, you loose to melm, speaking of corvi, IT SITS ON YOU, You obviouslsly loose to weavile, mandibuzz happens to hate its birb cousins not just because they outclass it, but BECAUSE THEY SIT ON IT, also it is litteraly B+ rn which is the most inaccurate placment EVER, and most grounds run... ROCK TYPE COVERAGE!
TLDR mandibuzz is not good
 
:Garchomp: --> A. Will I get flack for this? I hope not. But 2 of the biggest threats in the OU force it to switch in Urshifu and Weavile and it really even struggles vs top utility like Tapu Fini. Is it still very solid? Yes., But it probably no longer deserves that cusp of the S rank.
Disagree. Garchomp must stay in A+.

Chomp is still a terrific sweeper that has to option to break early game with SD, or RK things after a Scale Shot, meaning it can sweep well against both defensive and offensive teams, something only Weavile can boast of in current SS OU. Garchomp has minimal defensive counterplay and hardly any safe switchins. The limited checks it has like Corviknight, Buzzwole, Landorus-T etc.. can be overwhelmed with SD and coverage like Fire Fang and Stone Edge. Also, did I mention it can lure and smash these checks using its Mixed attacker set? On top of all this, it has Stealth Rock, a utility every team needs. Talking about Rocks, it can still run its Tank set with Rocky Helmet to discourage Urshifu-R and Melmetal from using Surging strikes and Double Iron Bash, while having the ability to switch into Heatran, Zeraora etc.. Hence, Garchomp can do pretty much anything you need in your team and fits in all archetypes not named stall.

As for the checks you have mentioned, I agree that Weavile halts Garchomp in its tracks. As for others:

252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Aqua Jet vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Garchomp: 153-181 (42.8 - 50.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 112+ Def Tapu Fini: 238-282 (69.1 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Garchomp isn't too bothered by Aqua Jet, while it needs a bit of chip to beat Tapu Fini. This means these Pokemon aren't really checks to it. While Weavile is bad news for Chomp, another aspect to consider is that Light Screen Toxapex is rising. This means that you can no longer get away with ONLY using a breaker like Weavile or Urshifu-R that cannot beat Toxapex without Future Sight. This makes Garchomp more valuable as it is a reliable Toxapex breaker. While it can't blindly switch in and setup due to fear of stray Ice Beams, status and priority, Garchomp can do a lot of things and is never useless in almost any MU, deserving the A+ rank it has right now
 
Last edited:
Disagree. Garchomp must stay in A+.

Chomp is still a terrific sweeper that has to option to break early game with SD, or RK things after a Scale Shot, meaning it can sweep well against both defensive and offensive teams, something only Weavile can boast of in current SS OU. Garchomp has minimal defensive counterplay and hardly any safe switchins. The limited checks it has like Corviknight, Buzzwole, Landorus-T etc.. can be overwhelmed with SD and coverage like Fire Fang and Stone Edge. Also, did I mention it can lure and smash these checks using its Mixed attacker set? On top of all this, it has Stealth Rock, a utility every team needs. Talking about Rocks, it can still run its Tank set with Rocky Helmet to discourage Urshifu-R and Melmetal from using Surging strikes and Double Iron Bash, while having the ability to switch into Heatran, Zeraora etc.. Hence, Garchomp can do pretty much anything you need in your team and fits in all archetypes not named stall.

As for the checks you have mentioned, I agree that Weavile halts Garchomp in its tracks. As for others:

252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Aqua Jet vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Garchomp: 153-181 (42.8 - 50.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 112+ Def Tapu Fini: 238-282 (69.1 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Garchomp isn't too bothered by Aqua Jet, while it needs a bit of chip to beat Tapu Fini. This means these Pokemon aren't really checks to it. While Weavile is bad news for Chomp, another aspect to consider is that Light Screen Toxapex is rising. This means that you can no longer get away with ONLY using a breaker like Weavile or Urshifu-R that cannot beat Toxapex without Future Sight. This makes Garchomp more valuable as it is a reliable Toxapex breaker. While it can't blindly switch in and setup due to fear of stray Ice Beams, status and priority, Garchomp can do a lot of things and is never useless in almost any MU, deserving the A+ rank it has right now

I am sold :) I will actually admit I was overlooking the viability of SD Chomp. Going to go ahead and edit my original comment
 

Clone

Free Gliscor
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Moderator
Was scrolling through the list and saw a few mons that looked a little out of place

:Weavile: >S-: just look at WCoP replays. Triple Axel is a busted move and weav takes full advantage of that. Adamant SD just wins games. While it doesn't switch in on much, when it gets in it just claims kills or removes valuable items. Not to mention that weavile is often just one SD away from sweeping your team. It's far and away the best Pokémon in A+ and I feel it should rise to reflect its place in the current metagame

:Dragapult: > S-: Spdef Lando, Gking over regular slowking, and especially weavile make spamming shadow ball more difficult. This mon is still good and can still melt through some team structures, but they're less common nowadays and pult is a lot more manageable than 2 months ago when ppl thought it was busted. Still a top tier threat, but I don't think it's full S tier anymore

:zeraora: > A-: I love this mon but it's just meh rn. Can't switch in on anything really, and usually has to spam Knock Off until the Lando is dead. It can still threaten teams with its BU set, but it's not sweeping as often and it's pivot set is pretty mediocre at the moment. Not much more to say, koko is better

:tapu koko: > A+: speaking of koko, this mon is really good rn. Being a special attacker means it can actually switch in on water types and despite only a 95 base special attack, it's sneaky strong thanks to terrain. U turn means it's not stopped by Lando, and Fairy STAB means garchomp can't switch in will nilly. When it's wearing its boots + Roost it stays alive all game. On top of this, late game koko is a pain to deal with as it's probably outlasted it's checks. Oh, and CM exists, which is pretty good and you should try it

:Kartana: > A+: I still think kart is one of the best breakers in the tier and all it takes is one kill and checks no longer become checks thanks to beast boost. Band and SD are both scary to face and kart makes fat teams sad. Torn being everywhere kinda hurts it but I still think kart is probably the best mon in A (not counting any others I list for rises) and fits better in A+

:Tornadus-Therian: > A+: speaking of torn this thing should go back to A+. It's an excellent defogger, shuts certain structures down with taunt, and pivots on everything. Weavile running adamant helps it as it can now outspeed and U turn for good chip and avoids the unboosted OHKO. Heat Wave makes ferro, kart, and corv sad and hurricane hits decently hard and confusion is always nice. Like the above mons, I think it's a better fit in A+

:dragonite: > A-: this mon is bad. Bulky DD sets are serviceable when paired with mag, but it's very inconsistent and the defensive set is a complete momentum sink. It doesn't sweep very often and it hates the rise of fini and weav with a passion. On top of this it needs Jolly to outspeed koko and pult at +1 and it rarely sweeps nowadays. It's still a decent Tran, volc, and shifu switchin with its bulky DD set so it's not completely useless, but it's definitely below the mons in A rn

:buzzwole: > A: not 100% sold on this but it's one of the few mons able to check basically every physical attacker in the tier without getting murked by weavile (not counting aerial ace!!) And still hits hard if you're not using the shitty BU set. It's a decent glue for BO teams that's not a total momentum sink and can completely wall some badly built tea you'll see spammed on the ladder. Definitely at the top of A- and probably up there with the mons in A

:slowbro: > A-: meta trends favor it rn as it's a hard stop to things like Garchomp, Lando, Urshifu, and others, and if you run some heat like Colber Berry Body Press Weavile dies. Futureport isn't as strong as it used to be but slowbro can still pivot well and set up FS against a lot of things. It's being spammed pretty hard in OLT for a reason and I think it's due for a rise.

Not heavily invested in anything else. Blace could maybe rise to B+. See ox's tb replay for that reasoning. Arctozolt just murks some offenses and 6-0es on the spot so it could maybe rise a little. Ninetales too since it's the enabler + it has 2 screens in 1 and enables HO pretty well. TR mons are also pretty good. Used it a bit and while it's super mu reliant it can destroy some builds, so I think they're decent where they're at and should definitely not drop, though marowak could probably rise since it has no Counters. Mandibuzz and moltres are both bad and should drop. Once they lose their boots they're useless and don't fit on any teams very well.

Also Blaziken should be S+ cuz it's secretly broken but I won't open that can of worms here :)
 
Regarding Blace rising to B+, I agree with the nom. Especially this set

Blacephalon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Knock Off
- Trick
- Overheat

Knock off allows Blace to make Ttar/Heatran, 2 common switch ins for it, to lose their leftovers making them vulnerable to mid/late game placing them on a timer (through assaults from its shadow ball or its teammates). Heatran is one SpDef away from being a consistent check. SpDef Lando cant switch in on this thing. Any dark types not named Ttar or Hydreigon gets chunked like hell by Overheat and more often than not, you need to sack something to be able to handle it. If you dont like using those dark types, unless you want to use Pert, SpDef Chomp, Heatran or SpDef Fini, you are 2HKO'd by Shadow Ball or Overheat. And even then, these mons are one spdef drop away from being a check. Blissey/Chansey gets crippled by trick, Pex gets 2HKO'd (with rocks up). Its a menace and I agree with this nom. It's like mini spectrier. Except easier to revenge kill.
 
opinion on noms
:dragapult: to S-: AGREE
Pult is simply not splashable enough, Specs only works on offense, ddance on hyper offense, and use zerarora as an offensive pivot. Got hated for making this same nom 2 months ago but now people realize dragapult is overhyped. peace out.
:Mew: To A- DISAGREE
The thing is weak to knock, u-turn, and ghost types. All of those are prevalent in the meta while spikes are defogged with a plethora of defoggers to choose from, don't see what makes this A-.
:cloyster: To At least B-:
HOLY CRAP AGREE SO MUCH
Very good mon for reasons people have already outlined, can run liquidation for steels because i find pin missle cloyster to be bad, Def shouldn't be in C with shitmons like regieleki and alot of the C+ mons aren't better than cloyster. I do defend cloyster more than the average pokemon showdown player but take my word for it if you want ig.
:Weavile:, :Arctozolt:, and :blacephon: nominations:
HIGHLY UNSURE
:Weavile: is a threatening sweeper, but its typing is a very double edged blade. It's still a great - mon but I'm not sure if it's S- material. I Simply haven't had enough experience with blace and arctozolt to agree or disagree.
:Slowking: To A- HOLY CRAP AGREE SO MUCH
Drop it to at least B ngl imo this thing sucks.
:Quagsire: To C+ STRONGLY DISAGREE
Use toxapex/gastrodon. I'm sorry but this thing is trash and imo should be going the other way to C-/UR
:reuniclus: To B-
Slightly agree
Very bad matchup in some MO's and its slow and frail in a vacum, haven't seen it enough in practice though.
:Garchomp: To A:
DISAGREE MY LIFE AWAY
bro it should stay in A for the reasons agslash23 mentioned, theres also bright powder SubVeil tank sets.
:Slowbro: to A-: AGREE
it does have a worse matchup against pult, but that killed slowking anyways and with stuff like moistshifu runnin around I'd say it's better than Slowking, many of the things that crush bro like weavile ~~unless you use body press colbur berry~~ and blace also beat up king anyways, while king checks less than bro. Bro got more usage in past gens for a reason people.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyways imma make some noms rq!
:gengar:: C+ -> UR
Why.
But really just use blace/pult/slash/Fricking polteagist
Tapu lele to A+
Great offensivley blissey is becoming ungood and destroying pex is alwaysgut great. Fucc dat demon called toxapex.

Edit: More opinions. Because reasons.
:zapdos: to B+: DISAGREE
So basically there is this thing called role compression. corv and company aren't electrics, while koko and zera can't defog and aren't flying types.
:Tornadus-therian: to A+: AGREE 200%
God if I were to make a personal VR than torn-T would be S+, with a handy move called heat wave it can deal with corv easily and I really can't think of anything that resists the combo of hurricane, focus blast, and heat wave. It can 2hko blissey with +2 focus blast, and if torn-T is running taunt blissey is screwed. doesn't have to really run boots thanks to regenerator (who uses gastro acid bru). TLDR insanely good mon.
Last nom rq:
Conkelldur to UR
Yes Yes IK funny guts priority but really just use sciz.
 
Last edited:
Just one nom this time,

FF175EB3-AE97-49B9-AA9C-B25D180B0698.png
A- -> B+
I by no means think Hydreigon is bad at all, but there’s a reason this thing keeps barely scraping by in the usage stats. Everything about Hydreigon is just so unfortunate. It’s speed tier is just abysmal. Outspeeding Moistshifu and non speed boosting natured base 100s is nice, but pretty much every mon that’s faster than it destroys it. Mons like Dragapult and Weavile are so common and will always put an end to whatever Hydreigon is doing, meaning it will never sweep, and it’s only just OK at cleaning teams where all the faster threats are gone up. But it must be good at beating defensive oriented teams right? This is where Hydreigon shines, but here it also has some issues. Hydreigons main niche as a breaker is it’s ability to set up on Heatran(eats a toxic)and Slowking(falling off), and it’s longetivity thanks to roost. The problem here is now Hydreigon has to pick between getting bodied by pex or bodied by clef, not to mention that it just loses to Blissey no matter what(where Tf are you gonna fit superpower?). Choice scarf sets are OK, but at that point, why not just use Dragapult? In short, I think B+ fits Hydreigon a bit better than A-.
 

Finchinator

You’re so golden
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderatoris a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis the defending BW Circuit Champion
OU & NU Leader
:cloyster: To At least B-: HOLY CRAP AGREE SO MUCH
Very good mon for reasons people have already outlined, can run liquidation for steels because i find pin missle cloyster to be bad, Def shouldn't be in C with shitmons like regieleki and alot of the C+ mons aren't better than cloyster. I do defend cloyster more than the average pokemon showdown player but take my word for it if you want ig.
It does not ever use Pin Missile and it very, very rarely uses Liquidation. It runs Shell Smash, Icicle Spear, Rock Blast, and Ice Shard a vast majority of the time, fitting neither of those options. In addition, the whole point of posting nominations is to provide actual evidence beyond "take my word for it if you want ig" as evidence supersedes the need to take the word of "Pikachu_fan4820" in a random thread.

While your thread ban has expired and your first infraction to Lurk More has expired, I still urge you to lurk until you gain a better grasp on proper posting etiquette.
:Slowking: To A- HOLY CRAP AGREE SO MUCH
Drop it to at least B ngl imo this thing sucks.
:Quagsire: To C+ STRONGLY DISAGREE
Use toxapex/gastrodon. I'm sorry but this thing is trash and imo should be going the other way to C-/UR
For example, statements like these have no substance or justification. If something "sucks" or "is trash" explain why that is the case in your opinion. Otherwise, these are just baseless claims piling up and littering the thread that is intended to be insightful.
Last nom rq:
Conkelldur to UR
Yes Yes IK funny guts priority but really just use sciz.
Also, how in the world are these two Pokemon interchangeable? Do not answer this -- it is rhetorical and I do not need you posting here anymore than you already do. But they very much are not comparable. Having priority does not define either Pokemon's niche right now -- Conk is a breaker on Trick Room and Scizor is a defensive pivot on balance or a sweeper on HO.
 
B -> B-

Aegislash is just struggling when the top threats of the metagame are dragapult, urshifu-r, weavile, garchomp, volcarona, kartana and more. It is slow even with max speed EV's and without HP ev's it is taking way more damage from stuff such as tapu lele's psychic, rillaboom's grassy slide, zapdos discharge, clefable moonblast and more resistant and weak attacks. Due to its low speed tier it is vulnerable to a lot of revenge killers such as dragapult, urshifu-r, weavile, garchomp, volcarona, and kartana to name a few. Threatened by the most common move in knock off which hinders its ability to break through opposing teams. It also hates toxapex which has a 20% usage rate and runs a sp def set or a mixed set often which easily handles aegislash. To conclude, it just feels slow and vulnurable to a lot of the metagame which leads its supposed great typing to not be as greatly utilized due to having no recovery, no hp investment, and being slow which results it being hit way more often. Also the rise of many threats that it dislikes such as steel types such as ferrothorn and heatran are very popular and dark types such as weavile and bisharp and occasionally mandibuzz and hydreigon threaten it easily.
 
B -> B-

Aegislash is just struggling when the top threats of the metagame are dragapult, urshifu-r, weavile, garchomp, volcarona, kartana and more. It is slow even with max speed EV's and without HP ev's it is taking way more damage from stuff such as tapu lele's psychic, rillaboom's grassy slide, zapdos discharge, clefable moonblast and more resistant and weak attacks. Due to its low speed tier it is vulnerable to a lot of revenge killers such as dragapult, urshifu-r, weavile, garchomp, volcarona, and kartana to name a few. Threatened by the most common move in knock off which hinders its ability to break through opposing teams. It also hates toxapex which has a 20% usage rate and runs a sp def set or a mixed set often which easily handles aegislash. To conclude, it just feels slow and vulnurable to a lot of the metagame which leads its supposed great typing to not be as greatly utilized due to having no recovery, no hp investment, and being slow which results it being hit way more often. Also the rise of many threats that it dislikes such as steel types such as ferrothorn and heatran are very popular and dark types such as weavile and bisharp and occasionally mandibuzz and hydreigon threaten it easily.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Weavile: 129-153 (45.9 - 54.4%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 153-180 (56.4 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 127-151 (41.7 - 49.6%) -- 23.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery (max spdef is rare af and knocks are easy to achieve but w/e)?
you dont need max HP or max Speed either yknow, you can really just hit 180s (fast melms and ID zones) or 190s (spdef heatrans) and call it a day, there isnt much beyond that threshhold you can or want to outspeed. specs aegis a great mon for letting offenses check stuff like Hawl+Dnite+Lele+Kyu while forcing a kill p much every time it gets entry, which isnt hard given it abuses the mons i listed a bit ago (besides dnite its just checking that) as well as Clefable, Buzzwole, Slowtwins, Skarm, Urshi locked into CC, chipped melms, doubles on any of these mons if you wanna mitigate risk, etc. its not super splashable but i don't really see a reason to drop it when its been seeing ok usage and doing relatively well for itself as a bulky specs mon, Empo's ghost spam is a great example of an offense utilizing Aegi's strengths to the fullest imo.
 
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Weavile: 129-153 (45.9 - 54.4%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 153-180 (56.4 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 127-151 (41.7 - 49.6%) -- 23.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery (max spdef is rare af and knocks are easy to achieve but w/e)?
you dont need max HP or max Speed either yknow, you can really just hit 180s (fast melms and ID zones) or 190s (spdef heatrans) and call it a day, there isnt much beyond that threshhold you can or want to outspeed. specs aegis a great mon for letting offenses check stuff like Hawl+Dnite+Lele+Kyu while forcing a kill p much every time it gets entry, which isnt hard given it abuses the mons i listed a bit ago (besides dnite its just checking that) as well as Clefable, Buzzwole, Slowtwins, Skarm, Urshi locked into CC, chipped melms, doubles on any of these mons if you wanna mitigate risk, etc. its not super splashable but i don't really see a reason to drop it when its been seeing ok usage and doing relatively well for itself as a bulky specs mon, Empo's ghost spam is a great example of an offense utilizing Aegi's strengths to the fullest imo.
I never mentioned that weavile and bisharp are counters, they are just offensive threats that can force out aegi or ohko it. I was looking at this statement " **Toxapex** : Toxapex can avoid a 2hko on every move unboosted from Aegislash, punishing it with either Scald or a Knock Off It can also scout what move Aegislash has used and heal it off thanks to Regenerator after switching accordingly" I forgot to check the calc but whatever. The current analysis being made for aegislash is using 252 sp. attack, and 252 speed that is what I thought its spread was being used all over, it never mentioned that you can run a certain amount of speed. Never seen Empo's ghost spam, cant base my nomination of it...I have just seen high ladder usage of it and how it makes little progress against offensive teams which ladder is flooded with due to its slow speed.
 
Last edited:
Just one nom this time,

View attachment 360413 A- -> B+
The problem here is now Hydreigon has to pick between getting bodied by pex or bodied by clef, not to mention that it just loses to Blissey no matter what(where Tf are you gonna fit superpower?). Choice scarf sets are OK, but at that point, why not just use Dragapult? In short, I think B+ fits Hydreigon a bit better than A-.


+2 252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 481-567 (122 - 143.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 128 SpD Toxapex: 360-425 (118.4 - 139.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+4 252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 617-729 (86.4 - 102.1%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

Hydreigon cracks fat open like a nut. I see no reason for it to drop. LO draco at it's speed tier kills so much. Scarf, sub NP, and defensive sets are also good
 
I never mentioned that weavile and bisharp are counters, they are just offensive threats that can force out aegi or ohko it. I was looking at this statement " **Toxapex** : Toxapex can avoid a 2hko on every move unboosted from Aegislash, punishing it with either Scald or a Knock Off It can also scout what move Aegislash has used and heal it off thanks to Regenerator after switching accordingly" I forgot to check the calc but whatever. Its prediction reliant, while yeah good players can take advantage off it i guess, you have to get 50/50's right and commonly its offensive teams or stall teams rn on ladder. The current analysis being made for aegislash is using 252 sp. attack, and 252 speed that is what I thought its spread was being used all over, it never mentioned that you can run a certain amount of speed. Never seen Empo's ghost spam, cant base my nomination of it...I have just seen high ladder usage of it and how it makes little progress against offensive teams which ladder is flooded with due to its slow speed.
I'm aware that you never mentioned Weavile and Bisharp aren't counters, but the scenario at play here is ether A)a pokemon has dropped by aegislash so that the darks can come in safely or B) the darks have lost half or more of their health. Toxapex only rlly avoids the 2hko from Aegislash with a spread it rarely ever runs (physically inclined is better like 99% of the time bc ada weav) and with both no rocks on the field and Black Sludge intact, which it might not even be running because Shed Shell and Helm are attractive options. Aegislash doesn't really have 50/50s, its like Blacephalon where you click Shadow Ball 99% of the time and your other moves the other 1% because really thats all you need to do most of the time.
It feels like you were trying to nom this mon down just for the sake of it rather than it actually getting worse, bc if anything the current state of the metagame really benefits breakers with good defensive utility and Tapu Lele is a huge one to check. it's really not that hard to get Aegi in vs an offense and just click Sball to claim a KO and unless you have like BlissPex (which isnt even garunteed on stall rn bc of shed stall, dual water stall, and stuff like that), fat really doesnt like dealing with it either.
 
I'm aware that you never mentioned Weavile and Bisharp aren't counters, but the scenario at play here is ether A)a pokemon has dropped by aegislash so that the darks can come in safely or B) the darks have lost half or more of their health. Toxapex only rlly avoids the 2hko from Aegislash with a spread it rarely ever runs (physically inclined is better like 99% of the time bc ada weav) and with both no rocks on the field and Black Sludge intact, which it might not even be running because Shed Shell and Helm are attractive options. Aegislash doesn't really have 50/50s, its like Blacephalon where you click Shadow Ball 99% of the time and your other moves the other 1% because really thats all you need to do most of the time.
It feels like you were trying to nom this mon down just for the sake of it rather than it actually getting worse, bc if anything the current state of the metagame really benefits breakers with good defensive utility and Tapu Lele is a huge one to check. it's really not that hard to get Aegi in vs an offense and just click Sball to claim a KO and unless you have like BlissPex (which isnt even garunteed on stall rn bc of shed stall, dual water stall, and stuff like that), fat really doesnt like dealing with it either.
Yeah, the dark types are not counters, i really did only mention weavile and bisharp for that they are dark types who can take advantage on aegislash switching out on them. Toxapex is probably flawed part of the nom because i forgot to calc. Relized that aegislash spams shadow ball for days and only other stuff when it faces smth like clef, tyranitar and blissey. It seemed to get worse because weavile, sp def landorus-t, zeraora, and dragapult are very high in usage currently alongside other threats such as kartana, garchomp, bisharp, and heatran are also very high in usage
 
Rises
:weavile:>S-: One or the best offensive threats in the tier,great offensive typing, high speed tier, and access to priority and Knock Off, and it’s typing let’s jt act as a soft check against Dragapult preventing it from spamming Shadow Ball. While you can get screwed over if Triple Axel misses the pay off is a hard hitting offensive that has risen from a bad spot and is worth rising as one of the best offensive mons in the tier.
:tapu fini:> A+: The utility and offensive traits Tapu Fini has is great the ability to be able to check Urshifu-R, Weavile, Dragapult, and Heatran are all good things with its great typing and ability in Misty Terrain in blocking status moves to support its allies. The wide variety of sets it has like Calm Mind as a dangerous wincondition, Choice Scarf for speed control, and trapper with Whirlpool meaning that Tapu Fini can provides bunch of sets depending on the team.
:blacephalon: > B+: While not on the same level as Dragapult many teams just drop to this shown from WCOP without any proper switchin, Mandibuzz gets cooked by Overheat, while Blissey dislikes getting Tricked while Blacephalon benefits receiving the Boots in cost for power. In more offensive teams there’s also the more niche SubCM set which has its own merit, but not in the same threat level as Choice Specs.
:cloyster: > B-: :king’s rock:, jokes aside Cloyster a major threat especially since most of its defensive switchins just get flinched to death by luck even when you try revenging it with priority as even an Ice Shard can do a simple flinch, at the end of the day games are decided if you get flinched or not, and this thing is hard switching into if your resist are weakened or just get hax to death and easily better than majority of the things in C tier.

Drops
:dragapult:>S-: Dragapult is not as good as it was while it’s still a great pick for some teams it doesn’t feel as oppressive a couple months back with the popularity of things like Weavile and Tapu Fini ever increasing and many special walls invest into living more than two shadow balls just makes it hard to constantly spam it and it’s not on same level as S tier anymore.

:dragonite: > A-: Dragonite rose a sub rank and now should drop a sub rank again, while the role compression it has in checking w fast majority of tier threats are appreciated, offensively it struggles in being able to pull off almost always needing a Magnezone in order to muscle through the steel types if Heal Bell, while dropping it in favor for Earthquake makes it vulnerable to status move which makes it easier to break past with Multiscale gone, right now not in a good spot and should drop compared to the rest of the things in A.

noms I agree with:
:Tapu Koko: > A+
:kartana: > A+
:slowking: > A-
:zapdos: > B+
:moltres: >C-

noms I disagree with:
:rillaboom: > A: this mon is really overrated and it’s still in an awkward spot it has some merits occasionally with its utility and still being a decent offensive threat but I’m more concerned about Kartana than Rillaboom which is a lot easier to handle.

:Hydreigon: > B+: While Hydreigon itself is kinda awkward and hates the ever rising presence of Tapu Fini and Weavile, but outside of that you have a decent breaker and some nice defensive traits in being able to check like the rising blacephalon, heatran, Toxapex, and Dragapult( you force mind games on it) while you do hate getting status you still able to check what you need to have roost to fend off or having cleric support which synergies well with it.

:Pelipper: :barraskewda: > C+: Rain has been picking up from OLT and has proven to be a dangerous archetypes that can overwhelm teams with water resist get overwhelmed while electric immunities dislike the rain in keeping the electric types commonly seen in those teams, and checking the likes of things that give rain a struggle like Dragon-types are kept in check by Clefable who has been occasionally seen in some rain teams.​
 
Last edited:
Ok finch wanted reasoning for my quagsire to UR nom so here you go
Quagsire vs Toxapex/Gastrodon
Ok statspreads first but its HP/DEF/SPDEF because these mons are NOT used for offense
Toxapex:
50/152/142
Gastrodon:
112/68/82
Quagsire:
95/85/65
I'd say toxapex comes out on top there. Obviously 50 hp sucks but its def and spdef are so much better than the other 2
Obviously, stats aren't everything, so on to defensive typing!
Toxapex: Poison/Water (12% stealth rock)
Gastrodon and Quagsire: Ground/Water (6% stealth rock)
(btw the *number*% stealth rock is how much hp lost from stealth rock)
Toxapex resists: Bug, Fairy, Fighting, Fire, Ice, Poison, Steel, Water
Toxapex is weak to: Electric, Ground, Psychic
Toxapex is immune to: Toxic
Gastrodon and Quagsire resist: Fire, Poison, Rock, Steel
Gastrodon and Quagsire are weak to: Grass (4x weakness)
Gastrodon and Quagsire are immune to: Electric, Sandstorm damage
Toxapex: Upsides and downsides:
Toxapex can soak up toxics and resists a whole lot more than the other 2 whilst not being weak to grass. does have more weaknesses to worry about, somewhat easier to chip (this is kinda irrelevant and I'll get to that later in the post) and also can't soak up electric moves.
Quagsire and gastrodon: Upsides and downsides
1 weakness to toxapex's 3, however this is a much thinner rope to grab because that one weakness is a quad weakness. they do take less from stealth rock and soak up electric moves which is nice. However they have a lot less resistances than pex which means less stuff you can wall with your typing. But you do fare better against heatran which is good.
Part 3: Abilities
Toxapex:
Regenerator
This is a super handy tool when you can't escape a 2HKO with recover and come in on something you wall to recover later. this also renders stealth rock nearly useless which is nice..
Gastrodon: Sticky hold OR Storm drain
Sticky hold: Honestly I'd rather run storm drain to soft check waters but being a good knock off soaker is nice
Storm drain: Soft check alot of waters that way and wall washtom.
Quagsire:
Unaware OR water absorb
Water absorb: ehhhhh gastrodon is pretty much better at water softchecking so meh, you also give up on unaware.
Unaware: Clefable is better for this ngl, because it can cm.
Movepool:
very similar. All can spread toxic, get scald burns, and recover. heres the main draw of a move for each pokemon
Toxapex: Toxic spikes allows pex to spread poison throughout the game, even when not on the field. To spread it to the fullest it enjoys pokemon that can force lots of switches.
Gastrodon: earth power isn't really the biggest draw on earth but you hit tran ig?
Quagsire: A gastrodon scenario but with earthquake.
I'd say pex comes out on top here.
 
Ok finch wanted reasoning for my quagsire to UR nom so here you go
Quagsire vs Toxapex/Gastrodon
Ok statspreads first but its HP/DEF/SPDEF because these mons are NOT used for offense
Toxapex:
50/152/142
Gastrodon:
112/68/82
Quagsire:
95/85/65
I'd say toxapex comes out on top there. Obviously 50 hp sucks but its def and spdef are so much better than the other 2
Obviously, stats aren't everything, so on to defensive typing!
Toxapex: Poison/Water (12% stealth rock)
Gastrodon and Quagsire: Ground/Water (6% stealth rock)
(btw the *number*% stealth rock is how much hp lost from stealth rock)
Toxapex resists: Bug, Fairy, Fighting, Fire, Ice, Poison, Steel, Water
Toxapex is weak to: Electric, Ground, Psychic
Toxapex is immune to: Toxic
Gastrodon and Quagsire resist: Fire, Poison, Rock, Steel
Gastrodon and Quagsire are weak to: Grass (4x weakness)
Gastrodon and Quagsire are immune to: Electric, Sandstorm damage
Toxapex: Upsides and downsides:
Toxapex can soak up toxics and resists a whole lot more than the other 2 whilst not being weak to grass. does have more weaknesses to worry about, somewhat easier to chip (this is kinda irrelevant and I'll get to that later in the post) and also can't soak up electric moves.
Quagsire and gastrodon: Upsides and downsides
1 weakness to toxapex's 3, however this is a much thinner rope to grab because that one weakness is a quad weakness. they do take less from stealth rock and soak up electric moves which is nice. However they have a lot less resistances than pex which means less stuff you can wall with your typing. But you do fare better against heatran which is good.
Part 3: Abilities
Toxapex:
Regenerator
This is a super handy tool when you can't escape a 2HKO with recover and come in on something you wall to recover later. this also renders stealth rock nearly useless which is nice..
Gastrodon: Sticky hold OR Storm drain
Sticky hold: Honestly I'd rather run storm drain to soft check waters but being a good knock off soaker is nice
Storm drain: Soft check alot of waters that way and wall washtom.
Quagsire:
Unaware OR water absorb
Water absorb: ehhhhh gastrodon is pretty much better at water softchecking so meh, you also give up on unaware.
Unaware: Clefable is better for this ngl, because it can cm.
Movepool:
very similar. All can spread toxic, get scald burns, and recover. heres the main draw of a move for each pokemon
Toxapex: Toxic spikes allows pex to spread poison throughout the game, even when not on the field. To spread it to the fullest it enjoys pokemon that can force lots of switches.
Gastrodon: earth power isn't really the biggest draw on earth but you hit tran ig?
Quagsire: A gastrodon scenario but with earthquake.
I'd say pex comes out on top here.
Quagsire is an unaware wall who's job is to counter pokemon such as SD landorus-t, melmetal, leftovers SD garchomp, DD dragonite, bulky safeguard volcarona. Gastrodon is a stall pokemon as well but its a sp def wall which helps against heatran, clefable via clear smog, tapu koko. While toxapex is used all around as a distributor with knock off, scald, toxic, toxic spikes, and can help against sweepers with haze. Quagsire is used on stall to fill in holes that would otherwise abuse toxapex such as heatran which cannot abuse quagsire, zeraora which can be annoying for teams to deal with and quagsire stone walls it. Quagsire still fits a niche on stall and follows stall trend of viability which causes it to be in C. Toxapex is an amazing pokemon but quagsire has some ups over it and by no means is completely outclassed by toxapex, you just need to build carefully around it and make sure to support it well. Quagsire seperates itself from clefable because it is a set up sweeper and a teams cleric quagsire walls physical attackers and punishes them with burns and toxic which something clefable cannot do
 
Ok finch wanted reasoning for my quagsire to UR nom so here you go
Quagsire vs Toxapex/Gastrodon
Ok statspreads first but its HP/DEF/SPDEF because these mons are NOT used for offense
Toxapex:
50/152/142
Gastrodon:
112/68/82
Quagsire:
95/85/65
I'd say toxapex comes out on top there. Obviously 50 hp sucks but its def and spdef are so much better than the other 2
Obviously, stats aren't everything, so on to defensive typing!
Toxapex: Poison/Water (12% stealth rock)
Gastrodon and Quagsire: Ground/Water (6% stealth rock)
(btw the *number*% stealth rock is how much hp lost from stealth rock)
Toxapex resists: Bug, Fairy, Fighting, Fire, Ice, Poison, Steel, Water
Toxapex is weak to: Electric, Ground, Psychic
Toxapex is immune to: Toxic
Gastrodon and Quagsire resist: Fire, Poison, Rock, Steel
Gastrodon and Quagsire are weak to: Grass (4x weakness)
Gastrodon and Quagsire are immune to: Electric, Sandstorm damage
Toxapex: Upsides and downsides:
Toxapex can soak up toxics and resists a whole lot more than the other 2 whilst not being weak to grass. does have more weaknesses to worry about, somewhat easier to chip (this is kinda irrelevant and I'll get to that later in the post) and also can't soak up electric moves.
Quagsire and gastrodon: Upsides and downsides
1 weakness to toxapex's 3, however this is a much thinner rope to grab because that one weakness is a quad weakness. they do take less from stealth rock and soak up electric moves which is nice. However they have a lot less resistances than pex which means less stuff you can wall with your typing. But you do fare better against heatran which is good.
Part 3: Abilities
Toxapex:
Regenerator
This is a super handy tool when you can't escape a 2HKO with recover and come in on something you wall to recover later. this also renders stealth rock nearly useless which is nice..
Gastrodon: Sticky hold OR Storm drain
Sticky hold: Honestly I'd rather run storm drain to soft check waters but being a good knock off soaker is nice
Storm drain: Soft check alot of waters that way and wall washtom.
Quagsire:
Unaware OR water absorb
Water absorb: ehhhhh gastrodon is pretty much better at water softchecking so meh, you also give up on unaware.
Unaware: Clefable is better for this ngl, because it can cm.
Movepool:
very similar. All can spread toxic, get scald burns, and recover. heres the main draw of a move for each pokemon
Toxapex: Toxic spikes allows pex to spread poison throughout the game, even when not on the field. To spread it to the fullest it enjoys pokemon that can force lots of switches.
Gastrodon: earth power isn't really the biggest draw on earth but you hit tran ig?
Quagsire: A gastrodon scenario but with earthquake.
I'd say pex comes out on top here.
Quagsire is not really outclassed by the other 2,rather plays a different role.Quag's typing separates it from Pex,being able to stonewall Zera.
252+ Atk Zeraora Plasma Fists vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 174-206 (57.2 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Even with max investment,Pex is still 2HKO'd.
While Gastro only takes about 10% more from CC,Unaware makes Quag useful for walling setup sweepers:SD Lando-T,Twave Protect and AV Melm,SD Chomp,Offensive variants of Dragonite,and Volc.There's 2 variants,Def and SpDef,which are both useful.Def stonewalls almost every physical attacker since Grass is trash coverage,and SpDef can act as a setup immune Hippo of sorts.Gastro's poor Defence means that its a one-sided wall.SpDef Quag can keep up with Gastro,however,since its natural Defence and threat of a Scald Burn allow the SpDef set to threaten physical attackers.
Overall,while Quag isn't great,which is why its probably C+ at most,it can be great if you build around it well.Quag has perks over Pex and Gastro,which is why I personally think it should rise to C+.
 
Quagsire is not really outclassed by the other 2,rather plays a different role.Quag's typing separates it from Pex,being able to stonewall Zera.
252+ Atk Zeraora Plasma Fists vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 174-206 (57.2 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Even with max investment,Pex is still 2HKO'd.
While Gastro only takes about 10% more from CC,Unaware makes Quag useful for walling setup sweepers:SD Lando-T,Twave Protect and AV Melm,SD Chomp,Offensive variants of Dragonite,and Volc.There's 2 variants,Def and SpDef,which are both useful.Def stonewalls almost every physical attacker since Grass is trash coverage,and SpDef can act as a setup immune Hippo of sorts.Gastro's poor Defence means that its a one-sided wall.SpDef Quag can keep up with Gastro,however,since its natural Defence and threat of a Scald Burn allow the SpDef set to threaten physical attackers.
Overall,while Quag isn't great,which is why its probably C+ at most,it can be great if you build around it well.Quag has perks over Pex and Gastro,which is why I personally think it should rise to C+.
the issue is, as i went over in that post, is that pex is neutral to grass, while gastro and quag are quad weak to it. Most notably this makes rillaboom and power whip ferro good options against them. Kyu is also a safe bet against ALL 3 with freeze dry but gastro/quag especially because of freeze dry.
 
the issue is, as i went over in that post, is that pex is neutral to grass, while gastro and quag are quad weak to it. Most notably this makes rillaboom and power whip ferro good options against them. Kyu is also a safe bet against ALL 3 with freeze dry but gastro/quag especially because of freeze dry.
Did you know, there is a thing in pokemon as TEAMMATES, wow did you know that, cant believe it. I can build around my weakness to grass with pokemon such as skarmory or corviknight and against kyurem with pokemon like sp def clef, blissey, slowking-g, and shedinja. You clearly have not played enough stall if you think that quagsire is just another bulky water with meh stats. Unaware anchors stall to make sure it does not get overwhelmed by pokemon like SD scizor, DD dragonite, QD volcarona, and SD weavile.
 
wait what the hell quag is C bump this guy the hell up mates
unaware is a key component of basically all good stall teams, and Quagsire gives valuable role compression by serving as a good water and ground type while also foilling that role, as opposed to clefable. Typically, of course, you'll use Clefable, but Quagsire has it's place. It's also worth noting that some setup mons beat Clefable 1v1, such as Scizor, and as such if your team struggles with them, you should go for Quagsire. Thus, I feel like C+ at least, maybe even B-, possibly even B is more appropriate for it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 5, Guests: 14)

Top