Resource SS OU DLC2 Viability Ranking Thread [See Post #1517 on Page 61]

wait what the hell quag is C bump this guy the hell up mates
unaware is a key component of basically all good stall teams, and Quagsire gives valuable role compression by serving as a good water and ground type while also foilling that role, as opposed to clefable. Typically, of course, you'll use Clefable, but Quagsire has it's place. It's also worth noting that some setup mons beat Clefable 1v1, such as Scizor, and as such if your team struggles with them, you should go for Quagsire. Thus, I feel like C+ at least, maybe even B-, possibly even B is more appropriate for it.
 
C+ -> B

Soooo.... to get away from this convo, I will attempt to make a nom. Amoonguss is great at checking some of the top threats such as clefable, urshifu-r, zeraora, tapu koko, tapu fini, and tapu bulu. Its spore is very valuable at shutting down many pokemon and make them abusable for its teammates like weavile who can use it to set up, or heatran to get a free turn out of it. With Foul Play it can punish many physical set up sweepers such as scizor, kartana, garchomp, aegislash, and landorus-t. Regen is something ferrothorn does not have and amoonguss can take advantage of it by being a hard counter to electric types and other pokemon such as buzzwole without worrying about its health being low from volt turn or taking a strong hit such as +2 leftovers garchomp earthquake and it can still be effective throught a game. Spore is also pretty much free since the only pokemon who are immune to it are ferrothorn, mandibuzz, tangrowth, and rillaboom most of which do not want to eat a sludge bomb poison.


C -> C-

This pokemon has a niche of disabling heatran via toxic, taking advantage of CM clef, poisoning everything with corrosion toxic. But it offers nothing defensively and even pokemon it would want to disable via toxic it has to pretty much sacrifice itself as clefable could knock it, heatran could just switch out knowing its coming, and a lot of pokemon carry knock off or can ohko it.
 
Last edited:
Strongly support this. So as to avoid redundancy, I'll use this reply to specifically explicate the niches it holds over Tangrowth and (to some extent) Ferrothorn and why these quirks are meaningful.

Unlike Tangrowth, it sports a favorable matchup vs Tapu Fini due to Sludge Bomb. The fall in popularity of CM sets in favor of Whirlpool and TrickScarf make Sludge Bomb better than Clear Smog these days but if your team doesn't naturally have a CM Fini check Clear Smog is pretty cool, missing the 30% poison chance makes you significantly more passive though. Also unlike Tangrowth, Amoonguss's Foul Play means it does not need to rely on a Focus Blast connecting to beat Kartana; should Focus Blast miss vs a +2 Kartana, Tangrowth is cleanly 2HKO'd by Knock Off into Sacred Sword. And of course unlike Ferrothorn, Regenerator makes it far safer to use as a mid-ground over the course of the game.

As HydreigonTheChild mentioned, Foul Play Amoonguss is a better blanket option for physical set-up sweepers; it is risky since it loses to, say, +2 Garchomp unlike Tangrowth, but Tangrowth itself is a risky option since you are relying on Sleep Powder and a long period of sleep to switch to an offensive check assuming you cannot safely 1v1 with Giga Drain. Amoonguss's lack of 4x weakness to Fire and good special bulk relative to Ferrothorn and Tangrowth respectively also makes it a midground for Dragapult and Aegislash's Shadow Ball. Assault Vest sets designed to be Knock Off absorbers with Spore perform this role exceptionally well due to Regenerator trivializing the damage taken — a rare trait in the tier right now — though are a bit more gimmicky/surprise-factor-y compared to Black Sludge or Heavy Duty Boots.

Moreover, Spore is a significantly more consistent option for forcing progress by always shutting down switch-ins and potentially forcing telegraphed switch-ins into Spore absorbers which can give you the initiative with a well-timed double, A lack of Knock Off relative to Tangrowth and Ferrothorn is a real bummer since it forces switches with Spore, but fishing for Sludge Bomb poisons is a reasonable consolation prize that make it a pain to switch into.

tl;dr: Though it lacks the impenetrable physical defense, access to Knock Off, and freedom to run Rocky Helmet compared to Tangrowth, it compensates with more balanced defenses, a better sleep inducing move, a more consistent matchup vs physical set-up not named Weavile, a good Tapu Fini matchup, and neutrality to U-Turn. It does not have the same degree of non-passivity compared to Spikes Ferrothorn, but it has Regenerator for more longevity to continue to keep its checks in place and the freedom to spread status. I truly think this 'mon is criminally underrated and compresses a lot of roles into one (Grass resist, Shadow Ball midground, Shifu check, Zeraora check, physical set-up check), and I agree that it deserves a raise.
 

Finchinator

You’re so golden
is a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderatoris a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis the defending BW Circuit Champion
OU & NU Leader
the issue is, as i went over in that post, is that pex is neutral to grass, while gastro and quag are quad weak to it. Most notably this makes rillaboom and power whip ferro good options against them. Kyu is also a safe bet against ALL 3 with freeze dry but gastro/quag especially because of freeze dry.
When I asked you to elaborate, I wanted you to really go out of your way to play the game until you reached a high enough level to do so and then draw off of personal experiences in confidence. Listing the type chart and generic examples for the sake of posting is not truly what makes this thread what it is. The allure of the OU VR thread for a tier like OU is hearing so many novel perspectives presented by some of the most experienced players. Nothing can compensate for firsthand experience in this regard and it is very clear that you either lack it or lack the ability to articulate it.

Yes, Quagsire is weak to Grass and Water types are weak to Freeze Dry, but Quagisre's role is not to handle these things -- it is to deter specific set-up sweepers, so your claims are relegated, more or less, moot. This same logic applies to other Pokemon you have examined under a very limited scope recently. I once again implore you to lurk more before proceeding, thanks.
 
777DF3D0-48F5-452E-B630-8FAD3CCF25F2.gif


B to A-

Blacephalon is a rising threat in the OU meta and for good reasons. it’s super strong that it can 2hitko spdef clefable, tapu fini, spdef pex and spdef landot with shadow ball something that pult can’t do. Overheat blows away checks like Hydreigon, Shitbuzz and hippowdon. Blissey will get smashed by trick and giving blacephalon hdb is super helpful for it also. It sweeps so many teams and most teams don’t prep for it well. It being in B is super crucial for its wallbreaking capabilities. Just take a look at OU and name a switchin. Although, it does have its flaws like its speed tier letting it get revenged killed by torn, zera, kart, weav and pult and its weakness to rocks which is why im only nomming it to A-.

It’s even more threatening with other wall breakers like Weavile, Urshifu, Kyurem, Garchomp and Melmetal. Spikes support from ferrothorn is also a good partner so blacephalon can blow away even more checks. Pivots like Tapu Koko are also good options.

It also loves the drop of ttar and Mandi so it’s free to spam sball all it wants since it 2hitkos legit everything in OU, It also has a unique speed tier that lets it outspeed urshifu, garchomp and kyurem. Everybody here has at least gotten swept by blacephalon in OU and hopefully we can see the clown reach OU someday.
Use this mon it’s super fun to use. :blacephalon:


252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 123-145 (40.4 - 47.6%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 190-225 (48.2 - 57.1%) -- 44.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 274-324 (69.5 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 144 SpD Mandibuzz: 222-262 (52.4 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Overheat vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Tornadus-Therian: 352-415 (97.2 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 313-370 (74.5 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Overheat vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 193-228 (59.3 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Weavile: 125-147 (44.4 - 52.3%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 168+ SpD Landorus-Therian: 198-234 (51.9 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 40 SpD Tapu Fini: 169-199 (49.1 - 57.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
 

Endrism

formerly SlippySlappySwampy
View attachment 361110

B to A-

Blacephalon is a rising threat in the OU meta and for good reasons. it’s super strong that it can 2hitko spdef clefable, tapu fini, spdef pex and spdef landot with shadow ball something that pult can’t do. Overheat blows away checks like Hydreigon, Shitbuzz and hippowdon. Blissey will get smashed by trick and giving blacephalon hdb is super helpful for it also. It sweeps so many teams and most teams don’t prep for it well. It being in B is super crucial for its wallbreaking capabilities. Just take a look at OU and name a switchin. Although, it does have its flaws like its speed tier letting it get revenged killed by torn, zera, kart, weav and pult and its weakness to rocks which is why im only nomming it to A-.

It’s even more threatening with other wall breakers like Weavile, Urshifu, Kyurem, Garchomp and Melmetal. Spikes support from ferrothorn is also a good partner so blacephalon can blow away even more checks. Pivots like Tapu Koko are also good options.

It also loves the drop of ttar and Mandi so it’s free to spam sball all it wants since it 2hitkos legit everything in OU, It also has a unique speed tier that lets it outspeed urshifu, garchomp and kyurem. Everybody here has at least gotten swept by blacephalon in OU and hopefully we can see the clown reach OU someday.
Use this mon it’s super fun to use. :blacephalon:


252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 123-145 (40.4 - 47.6%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 190-225 (48.2 - 57.1%) -- 44.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 274-324 (69.5 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 144 SpD Mandibuzz: 222-262 (52.4 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Overheat vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Tornadus-Therian: 352-415 (97.2 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 313-370 (74.5 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Overheat vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 193-228 (59.3 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Weavile: 125-147 (44.4 - 52.3%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 168+ SpD Landorus-Therian: 198-234 (51.9 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 40 SpD Tapu Fini: 169-199 (49.1 - 57.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
While I love Blacephalon and have used him on many teams, I don't agree with this nom.
Blacephalon has the problem to me that Mienshao has. Both have a pretty good movepool, hit harder than pretty much everyone else of their typing, and can put on massive offensive pressure, but they are both so incredibly frail.

Blacephalon cannot take 2 hits from pretty much any pokemon in the entire meta. Almost getting OHKO'd by non-invested Corviknight's Brave Bird, easy 2HKO from Pex's Scald, Tangrowth OHKO's with Knock, Clefable can 2HKO with Knock, Almost OHKO'd by EP from Heatran, OHKO'd by any Foul Play user like Mandibuzz, Tapu Fini with Scald/Surf, Swampert with EQ/Flip Turn, Zapdos with Discharge, the list goes on. Blacephalon has one of the best offensive typings in the game period, but one of the worst defensive typings having to either using HDB and give up damage output, or use Specs or Scarf and lose 25% every time you switch in, plus being weak to Water, the most common type in the game, and especially weak to Knock Off, which is everywhere this gen.

0 Atk Corviknight Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blacephalon: 192-226 (77.7 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Toxapex Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Blacephalon: 126-150 (51 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Tangrowth Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blacephalon: 232-274 (93.9 - 110.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
0- Atk Clefable Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blacephalon: 156-184 (63.1 - 74.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Blacephalon: 196-232 (79.3 - 93.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0- Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blacephalon: 374-444 (151.4 - 179.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Tapu Fini Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Blacephalon: 200-236 (80.9 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Swampert Flip Turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blacephalon: 234-276 (94.7 - 111.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Zapdos Discharge vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Blacephalon: 127-150 (51.4 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Don't get me wrong, I love Blacephalon, the man can nuke teams in the right scenario, but I do not think it deserves to be in the A Ranks because it relies heavily on it's teammates to do just about anything. If your best pivot dies, Blacephalon is going to be really hard to get in without killing off another member of your team because the only things Blacephalon can safety switch into are Amoonguss and Blissey, but even then you have to fear Spore and T-Wave respectively. I think it being in B is a nice place for it to stay.
 
Last edited:
While I love Blacephalon and have used him on many teams, I don't agree with this nom.
Blacephalon has the problem to me that Mienshao has. Both have a pretty good movepool, hit harder than pretty much everyone else of their typing, and can put on massive offensive pressure, but they are both so incredibly frail.

Blacephalon cannot take 2 hits from pretty much any pokemon in the entire meta. Almost getting OHKO'd by non-invested Corviknight's Brave Bird, easy 2HKO from Pex's Scald, Tangrowth OHKO's with Knock, Clefable can 2HKO with Knock, Almost OHKO'd by EP from Heatran, OHKO'd by any Foul Play user like Mandibuzz, Tapu Fini with Scald/Surf, Swampert with EQ/Flip Turn, Zapdos with Discharge, the list goes on. Blacephalon has one of the best offensive typings in the game period, but one of the worst defensive typings having to either using HDB and give up damage output, or use Specs or Scarf and lose 25% every time you switch in, plus being weak to Water, the most common type in the game, and especially weak to Knock Off, which is everywhere this gen.

0 Atk Corviknight Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blacephalon: 192-226 (77.7 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Toxapex Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Blacephalon: 126-150 (51 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Tangrowth Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blacephalon: 232-274 (93.9 - 110.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
0- Atk Clefable Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blacephalon: 156-184 (63.1 - 74.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Blacephalon: 196-232 (79.3 - 93.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0- Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blacephalon: 374-444 (151.4 - 179.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Tapu Fini Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Blacephalon: 200-236 (80.9 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Swampert Flip Turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blacephalon: 234-276 (94.7 - 111.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Zapdos Discharge vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Blacephalon: 127-150 (51.4 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Don't get me wrong, I love Blacephalon, the man can nuke teams in the right scenario, but I do not think it deserves to be in the A Ranks because it relies heavily on it's teammates to do just about anything. If your best pivot dies, Blacephalon is going to be really hard to get in without killing off another member of your team because the only things Blacephalon can safety switch into are Amoonguss and Blissey, but even then you have to fear Spore and T-Wave respectively. I think it being in B is a nice place for it to stay.
i have already listed onto blacephalon's frailty, It's reliant on pivoting and revenge killing for momentum (just like Dragapult) and it trades a better speed tier and better bulk for better coverage/stronger hits + the freedom to run other items since its naturally strong as fuck (like boots) u shouldnt be bringing it on knock. Half of those calcs u mentioned are not very relevant, no way u bringing blacephalon on a swampert or heatran or a tapu fini, why are u switching it on a mandibuzz and a knock off from clef/tang? my point here is that half of those calcs does not represent any real use for blacephalon since any good player won't be switching it on a tapu fini for example.
 

Endrism

formerly SlippySlappySwampy
i have already listed onto blacephalon's frailty, It's reliant on pivoting and revenge killing for momentum (just like Dragapult) and it trades a better speed tier and better bulk for better coverage/stronger hits + the freedom to run other items since its naturally strong as fuck (like boots) u shouldnt be bringing it on knock. Half of those calcs u mentioned are not very relevant, no way u bringing blacephalon on a swampert or heatran or a tapu fini, why are u switching it on a mandibuzz and a knock off from clef/tang? my point here is that half of those calcs does not represent any real use for blacephalon since any good player won't be switching it on a tapu fini for example.
The calcs were there to represent the fact that Blacephalon cannot switch into anything period. The only attacks that Blacephalon is okay with switching into are Fighting since theres not a single viable normal type move in the meta. The closest being Porygon Z or Tri-Attack Magnezone and those are oh so very.. ew. Blacephalon's speed tier is decent sure, but I don't think it's good enough to justify it having the worst defensive spread in the meta, and comparing it to the others in A- or even B+, I can't help but disagree with your statement despite it's nuclear power.

You compare it to Dragapult, but the important part is that Dragapult has the dragon typing, which while adding weaknesses to Ice, Fairy, and Itself, also adds a resistance to Electric, Fire, Water, and Grass. This means Dragapult can switch into things like Thunderbolt from all the mons that like to carry it, and even more important is Dragapults 88-75-75 Defensive spread, which isn't that good, but compared to Blacephalon's 53-53-79 there's a clear difference. Dragapult also has the ability to pivot with U-turn, allowing an easier exit than Blacephalon can get.
 
The calcs were there to represent the fact that Blacephalon cannot switch into anything period. The only attacks that Blacephalon is okay with switching into are Fighting since theres not a single viable normal type move in the meta. The closest being Porygon Z or Tri-Attack Magnezone and those are oh so very.. ew. Blacephalon's speed tier is decent sure, but I don't think it's good enough to justify it having the worst defensive spread in the meta, and comparing it to the others in A- or even B+, I can't help but disagree with your statement despite it's nuclear power.

You compare it to Dragapult, but the important part is that Dragapult has the dragon typing, which while adding weaknesses to Ice, Fairy, and Itself, also adds a resistance to Electric, Fire, Water, and Grass. This means Dragapult can switch into things like Thunderbolt from all the mons that like to carry it, and even more important is Dragapults 88-75-75 Defensive spread, which isn't that good, but compared to Blacephalon's 53-53-79 there's a clear difference. Dragapult also has the ability to pivot with U-turn, allowing an easier exit than Blacephalon can get.
You are only looking at the defensive properties of Blace, but that's not really the purpose of it. It is not supposed to switch into anything. It is a wallbreaker that plows through unprepared teams. Moreover, it only has a handful of checks like Tyranitar, Hydreigon, core of Regen Mon + Dark type + Bulky Water etc.. (no, Bliss isn't a check coz it gets Tricked with Specs, while Blace gains the very useful boots). You talk about Pult, yet even Pult can't switch into hits repeatedly. Pult and Blace are different mons with different roles - Pult is a speed controller + cleaner, while Blacephalon is a wallbreaker. Blace deserves A- IMO for the mentioned reasons
 
View attachment 361110

B to A-

Blacephalon is a rising threat in the OU meta and for good reasons. it’s super strong that it can 2hitko spdef clefable, tapu fini, spdef pex and spdef landot with shadow ball something that pult can’t do. Overheat blows away checks like Hydreigon, Shitbuzz and hippowdon. Blissey will get smashed by trick and giving blacephalon hdb is super helpful for it also. It sweeps so many teams and most teams don’t prep for it well. It being in B is super crucial for its wallbreaking capabilities. Just take a look at OU and name a switchin. Although, it does have its flaws like its speed tier letting it get revenged killed by torn, zera, kart, weav and pult and its weakness to rocks which is why im only nomming it to A-.

It’s even more threatening with other wall breakers like Weavile, Urshifu, Kyurem, Garchomp and Melmetal. Spikes support from ferrothorn is also a good partner so blacephalon can blow away even more checks. Pivots like Tapu Koko are also good options.

It also loves the drop of ttar and Mandi so it’s free to spam sball all it wants since it 2hitkos legit everything in OU, It also has a unique speed tier that lets it outspeed urshifu, garchomp and kyurem. Everybody here has at least gotten swept by blacephalon in OU and hopefully we can see the clown reach OU someday.
Use this mon it’s super fun to use. :blacephalon:


252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 123-145 (40.4 - 47.6%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 190-225 (48.2 - 57.1%) -- 44.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 274-324 (69.5 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 144 SpD Mandibuzz: 222-262 (52.4 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Overheat vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Tornadus-Therian: 352-415 (97.2 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 313-370 (74.5 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Overheat vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 193-228 (59.3 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Weavile: 125-147 (44.4 - 52.3%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 168+ SpD Landorus-Therian: 198-234 (51.9 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 40 SpD Tapu Fini: 169-199 (49.1 - 57.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Blace to A when? I’m just waiting for blace to be an ho icon since it’s so spammable.
 

erz

formerly Dragon Claw
is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a defending SPL Champion
Moderator
:Arctozolt:Arctozolt C -> B

Hail teams in various versions have gotten really popular, multiple ones climbing to the top of the ladder during OLT, all of them featuring a mon that allows them to break all teams consistently, from bulky offense to balance to stall: the cold zolt. Decided to run Hail in my World Cup Finals Tiebreaker game because there's hardly anything that abuses casual Landorus Corviknight Weavile Urshifu standard type of builds as much as Arctozolt. Sure, lando bulky offense is for sure the best playstyle in general but if you know it's coming no reason to not abuse it. Furthermore Zolt is actually not a matchup fish contrary to what some people still think, it's a consistent breaker. Fat teams such as clef corvi pex struggle heavily to not lose 6-0 to zolt depending on sets and shedinja type of stall teams don't have any counterplay because the weather in itself, hail, ohkoes shed at the end of the turn.
Zolt's good bulk allows the user to not have to slowturn or to port into it, you can just hardswitch into mons like fini not having to worry about too much. Saves time which means you get more hail turns to abuse. The teams Arctozolt struggles with the most are opposing weather teams as they deny veil as well as zolt's speedboost which affects bolt beak power as well. The worst matchup is probably sun due to the nature of hail, followed by rain (Barraskewda is tough to deal with since running ninetales means you lose out on fini as a water resist) or sand (you do have landorus but you need spdef so excadrill iron heads start to hurt instantly). Still, abusing the absolute standard mercilessly as well as being able to plow through stalls is a niche hardly anything else fills and it's really hard to give proper respect because there's actually not much you can do about the boltbeam coverage in the builder when you're running standard bulky offense. Hard to rank it properly because it's a mon dependant of a style but I think it fits the way Hawlucha is ranked, B, considering Lucha is good but can only be run on Terrain Hyper Offense.

for replays check out world cup finals tiebreak me vs tdk, world cup groups tricking vs vaboh and olt accounts such as lt83aq eeveesip and lt83aq arctozolt. One for the showcase https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1382642038
 
Noms I agree with

:buzzwole:-> A: Fantastic Knock absorber and blanket check to most physical attackers in the tier thanks to its Roost access, impressive 107/139 physical bulk, and reasonable defensive typing which gives it crucial resistances in Fighting, Ground and Dark. Its 139 attack stat and great coverage options make it far from passive as well. Granted this thing is completely helpless versus any Flying type in the tier due to its 4x Flying weakness and horrendous special bulk but that doesn’t negate the fantastic defensive and offensive utility this weird mosquito looking thing has to offer.

:weavile:-> S-: Very dangerous cleaner/breaker with access to 2 very strong STABs in Ice and Dark as well as a high base Speed stat and access to priority in Ice Shard. However it isn‘t quite as splashable as Pult or Lando-T and like Heatran its 4x weakness to a common attacking type (Ice/Dark as a whole is pretty poor as a whole defensively even barring the glaring 4x weakness) holds it back somewhat.

:swampert:-> B-: Very cool mon on paper, in practice it doesn‘t have enough longevity to do much of anything on any team archetype that isn’t Grass Spam (which to be completely fair it is solid on). Please let this thing drop to UU.

:blissey:-> B+: Spreads status well and completely walls most special attackers but is fairly passive and the rises of Shifu-R and Weavile (not to mention Pult becoming much more manageable) have really hurt it. Edit: Also top-tier special attackers (Pult and Heatran) have ways around Blissey, Pult just U-turns out while Heatran’s combination of Taunt, Toxic, and Magma Storm allow it to trap Blissey, prevent it from using any of its utility moves, and wear it down with Toxic.

:tapu_fini:-> A+: Misty Surge is nice and the Scarf set provides great speed control capable of checking the aforementioned Shifu-R and Weavile.

Noms I disagree with

:dragapult:-> S-: Pult has undeniably fallen off somewhat but it’s far too splashable to go anywhere other than S IMO, it’s still a very fast mon with a wide movepool and great STABs. The recent rise of Specs Blace has also helped out Pult a lot.

:zeraora:-> A-: If this thing didn’t get BU I’d agree with a drop since it hits like a wet noodle without boosts but the BU set is currently A+ worthy IMO
 
Last edited:

BreakthrU89

I CAN’T BE BANNED!
is a Pre-Contributor
It's been a hot minute, but I got some noms I think?

RISES

:tapu-koko: A -> A+

Tapu Koko has been popping off lately. It is really hard to keep in check long-term, since it can chip them down over time, and U-Turn is an excellent tool to really screw over checks, as with chip damage from clicking U-Turn + hazards, checks like Glowking get overwhelmed. It also has a sense of defensive utility with Roost, and being able to switch into things like Toxapex, Slowtwins, Corviknight, and Tornadus-Therian. Basically, everything Ox said holds up, and this Pokemon should be A+.

:tapu-fini: A -> A+

Tapu Fini’s rise in the meta was something I definitely didn’t see coming. Being a solid check to Weavile, Urshifu-R, and Dragapult is really good right now. It’s very annoying to deal with and switch in to. Scarf sets are great, Whirlpool sets seem to be solid, and while Calm Mind is seeing more limited usage, it still seems to be holding up somewhat, even if it’s matchup fishy.

:tornadus-therian: A -> A+

Tornadus-Therian didn’t deserve the drop in the first place in my opinion, but now, it’s better than before. This thing seems to live forever what with Heavy Duty Boots and Regenerator in the picture. Knock Off sets are really good, and even Nasty Plot sets have some merit, even if they’re generally inconsistent and not what makes Torn great. Good mon!

:blacephalon: B -> A-/B+

I don’t care which rank Blacephalon goes in out of the two, but it definitely deserves a rise. It has very little switch ins, what with its insane strength and ability to use Trick to cripple Blissey in the long game. It does have issues with bulk and revenge killers, but this Pokemon is definitely on the radar for rising threats.

:amoonguss: C+ -> B-

I don’t think Amoonguss is B tier just yet, but I do believe it is a definite B- Pokemon. It does better than Tangrowth in some relevant match ups, such as Tapu Fini, Kartana, and a good midground against the Ghost-types of the tier not named Blacephalon. It’s more balanced defenses allow it to also be a more consistent check to most physical Pokemon. Amoonguss also has one of the most annoying moves in the game with Spore, allowing to put something to sleep, which can be game-winning for a team mate. These solid merits give Amoonguss a very solidified niche in OU nonetheless, and it definitely deserves a rise.

:terrakion: C+ -> B-

Do I have to explain this again.

:ninetales-alola: C+ -> B-
:arctozolt: C -> B-

Hail has been seeing a notable rise in usage lately, and the main setter and the big abuser definitely deserve a rise. It’s a match up fish, but it some very good match ups at times. Arctozolt is low key unwallable under hail, and can stow through unprepared teams. It’s only walls are the Rotom forms, as all the other things that would wall it either get chipped (Ferrothorn) or hate Blizzard (Buzzwole). Ninetales-A is also a very good screen setter. It has a good Speed tier, and Aurora Veil is an absolutely incredible move. In my opinion, the rise of hail definitely needs to be noted on the viability ranking, and these two are the prime candidates for a rise.

:cloyster: C -> B-

It’s Cloyster. It’s been the topic of controversy for a very long time, what with its possibly uncompetitive nature with the ability to get a 41% flinch rate in a way I’ve called “AgiliFlinch” (Shell Smash might as well be considered Agility here, it’s a +2 boost as well). Ignoring that, Cloyster is terrifying. It can nullify bad match ups just by a flinch, which can be game winning. It’s somewhat easy to play around Cloyster, but it’s rise is evident with OLT really showing it’s potential.

:quagsire: C -> C+

A Quagsire rise would be good. I don’t have much to say here that cratersmash hasn’t already said. It’s pretty solid, no more, no less.

:togekiss: C -> C+

Togekiss could be worthy of a rise right now. I’ve heard it’s good from a few folks, but I haven’t really tested it myself. It seems like more of an annoyance with paraflinch spam or just flinch in general. Very little to say here.

:torkoal: C -> B-/C+
:venusaur: C -> B-/C+

Sun is a deadly match up fish right now, and it definitely deserves some sort of rise. Venusaur is more or less unwallable, and Torkoal is a very cool setter, since it has solid utility in Yawn, Stealth Rock, and burn chip, all of which are good traits for a more defensively oriented sun setter. Overall, this playstyle is good, and has shown its potential.

DROPS

:zeraora: A+ -> A/A-

Zeraora is really really cool. Unfortunately, it doesn’t have much over Tapu Koko. Koko has more defensive utility in Roost and not having to care about Scald burns, two things Zeraora is unable to replicate. Zeraora struggles switching in consistently due to its poor bulk becoming more evident as time goes on. Most things that it should be hitting strongly can easily U-Turn on it into something that stops it. I haven’t been scared by a Zeraora in a while, and Tapu Koko just does what it wants to do but better. Overall, Zeraora’s competition is too stiff to really justify it being in the same rank as Tapu Koko, and as such, should drop below it.

:slowking: A+ -> A-

Gomikyu made a brilliant post on this, but long story short, Future Sight’s impact can be easily limited by offensive pressure and Slowking is unable to wall anything on a game to game basis, since everything it is supposed to check can get around it.

:blissey: A- -> B+

I don’t think I have seen no one talk about this take, and honestly, it’s shocking. Blissey doesn’t really wall anything incredibly, since most of the time, they can pivot out into something that can easily break Blissey. It’s a decent Future Sight absorber, but it can’t really take it in tandem with the breakers that are always with it. Blissey doesn’t really fulfill the role of a wall too well, since anything can take advantage of its passive nature, and as such, it should definitely be dropped. I would love to see if people will defend the pink blob, but personally, Blissey has seen much better days.

:zapdos: A- -> B+

Zapdos in theory has role compression, but doesn’t perform too great in any of the given roles. It is hard to fit on to teams, and doesn’t really fill any niches that haven’t been filled. Offensive sets can be brutal, but I think those only work under rain, which is a pretty mediocre playstyle right now. It doesn’t really fit any major role, and as such, it should drop to B+.

:dracozolt: B+ -> B/B-
:excadrill: B -> B-

Sand has seen much better days right now. Dracozolt is extremely easy to outplay, what with the rise of SpDef Lando-T and Hippowdon in usage lately. Excadrill has mainly just passed its prime. It’s walled by a ton of things, and as a utility Pokemon, it performs just alright. Sand in general has been dropping out of consistent usage for quite a bit, but this is a new low for it.

:mandibuzz: B+ -> B-

Mandibuzz is so bad. It doesn’t really wall anything right now, and every other bird kind of just does what it wants to do better. Corviknight checks things better while not being prone to Toxic, Skarmory does the same while having hazard support, and even Zapdos has the utility of Static to annoy physical attackers. Mandibuzz is just a mostly passive bird that doesn’t really stand out amongst the crowd.

:swampert: B -> B-

Swampert is only used on some Rillaboom builds and more or less nothing else. It’s defensive utility is extremely limited due to its extreme vulnerability to Toxic and no reliable recovery. These two flaws, along with a lack of resistances, mean that Swampert isn’t too great right now.

:pelipper: B- -> C+
:barraskewda: B- -> C+/C

I’ve talked about the fall of rain before. Rain’s been getting a heavy mixed bag as of late, what with the rise and fall of things that wall it and offensively pressure it. It isn’t terrible, but it definitely isn’t a contender for the best weather right now.

:conkeldurr: C- -> UR

This mon is so trash. Sure it has no walls, but my god it has every other flaw possible. Very slow, a mediocre defensive typing with no defensive utility since you are getting chipped every turn, and doesn’t threaten anything that is faster than it. Mach Punch is a weak move and is not nearly enough to save it from its egregious Speed. This Pokemon is so bad, please remove it from the VR.

Those were my nominations. Let me know if you have anything to say about them, and I’ll most likely reply.
 
I see a lot of people advocating for Zeraora to drop a ranking. I've been toying around on ladder these days and I've had pretty solid results with Bulk Up Zeraora + RH Corviknight, especially on Grassy Terrain teams. This whole build is very easy to achieve since Corvi naturally pairs well with Electric types and both Tapu Bulu and Rillaboom share pretty useful offensive sinergy with Zeraora, also softening up Landorus-T's Earthquake and inviting in birds for Zeraora to abuse. Anyway, Landorus-T tends to get very low with Knock Off, Stealth Rock, Rocky Helmet chip from Corviknight and the occasional Toxic if you can fit it. When Landorus-T gets low, Zera can reveal Bulk Up and just go ham on the opponent's team because Plasma Fists + Knock Off + Close Combat hits offense very hard and there's very little that revenge kills +1/+1 Zeraora. I agree that Tapu Koko is more reliable and defensively useful, but Zeraora can still outlast its checks - which are fewer than Koko's - while cleaning up lategame much more effectively, especially with Bulk Up. I can see it not being in the same rank as Tapu Koko because it's a lot less self-sufficient, splashable and defensively useful, but at least we gotta put some respect on Zeraora's threat level because that speed tier and coverage alongside the ability to Bulk Up is really easy to support and I see no mention of this.
 
S Rank:

Lando
Weav
Heatran
Pult

I dont really care too much about the subdivision of S and where these are in that but my S rank would probably look like this. Pult has gotten worse for sure but its a still strong mon doing its usual. Weavile feels unbalanced in the current environment because Knock is free, HDB is still busted, Triple Axel is strong as shit when it connects, and a couple of different techs you can use beyond it to bypass specific checks/counterplays are viable granted more specific. Lando and Heatran kind of doing the same things but still very effective.

I agree with raising Blacephalon like AquaVanilla pointed out to A- or moving to B+ dropping down some not so good stuff. Blace only needs Defog support via Corv/Lando in most cases because they can remove rocks and U-Turn out to get Blace in safely. Ox vs mind gaming shown here is a good example of the kind of usual builds it can hurt which are common right now and Ttar usage being pretty minimal these days.

Lot of things already previously touched upon by others before like Arctozolt, Fini, etc. but I would raise Aegislash to B+ for similar reasons as Blace because the Specs set is incredibly strong and the ghost resists are normally passive, only able to be fit on specific builds, or just not good in the format. Swampert sucks, it has for the longest time, it shouldn't be in the same rank as some of the B counterparts, and its not even better than a handful of mons in lower subranks than it. Probably other things you can move around but no strong opinion on the other stuff or just stuff I dont find myself using/care too much about.
 
I might not be the most experienced player but I still think I can manage a nice grasp on the meta. So I do have some noms, hopefully they are well received. Obviously some of these have been said before, but I really enjoy and support some of them and disagree with others.

Rises:
:Weavile: --> S-. Weav is truly a force to be reckoned with right now. Many games are decided on giving weav that Swords Dance and the power of Triple Axel with the priority of Ice Shard provides ample STAB both ways. Dark type is always nice and it checks what most consider to be the best offensive mon in the game right now. The only things holding it back from true S are the fact that fighting moves make it cry and accuracy issues in Axel (which may be just me)

:Tapu Fini: --> A+. Just an all around amazing mon. It provides plenty of checks to many major threats and has an incredible utility movepool where it can serve various roles. Utility is king, and it especially helps that Fini can mostly shirk off major threats in the most popular core in OU right now: Pult/Shifu.

:Tapu Koko: --> A+. I think Koko comes in as the best electric mon in the current OU meta. Not because of its ability to sweep like a traditional electric type, but because it is undoubtedly one of the absolute best pivots currently in the game. I absolutely love its ability to set up and I love the large movepool of useful niches it can fill and enjoy. The ability to fill many roles is just as important if not more than the ability to hit stuff until it dies so Koko deserves a raise off that merit.

:Tornadus-Therian: --> A+. How has this mon not seen its rise yet? I don't often use it myself, but Torn is just an all around great mon. The longevity of it is terrifying and its movepool is quite powerful. The only thing holding it back from the level of respect that its earthy brother commands is the fact that its movepool is inaccurate and a little less versatile.

:Buzzwole: --> A. I think the big bug actually has a really nice spot in the meta right now. With a very nice movepool capable of threatening a lot of top mons and his typing he canbe a great ground/bird check and pairs super well with a mon like Glowking. I also want to point out I think the Rocky Helmet is the way to go for Buzz as it provides consistent chip at many of the mons Buzz can survive against as is like Urshifu and Kartana.

:Scizor: --> A. There's a lot of role compression in Scizor and I absolutely adore his current sand tomb set to deal with some potent threats such as heatran. While not usually the feature player on a team, it provides an excellent partner to many a mon.

:Rillaboom: --> A. I think everyone else will disagree, but I think the boom deserves the slight bump to sit among the A tier mons. Although it has a lot of threats, Grassy Glide go Brr is actually still a very strong priority move. It can OHKO Weavile (it survives an ice shard, even with a SD and glide has prio over Triple Axel if they do not switch) and Urshifu and has a sneaky OHKO on Pult with Knock Off if they are locked out of Draco Meteor or with prediction. I've also been a big supporter of dropping Wood Hammer and adding Superpower, where it can then OHKO common switch-ins like Heatran. It still has some big weaknesses and checks, but I think the mons in the A tier all have similar weaknesses.

:Mew: --> A-. I love Mew. If you read my comment, you would see that I highly value versatility, and Mew has that in abundance. You can do nearly everything utility-wise with this guy. Also Mew is hands down one of the better leads in OU.

:Blacephalon:/:Aegislash: --> B+(with Blacephalon possibly going A- soon even!) Ghost has always been strong, but the type finds itself in a very good place in the current meta. There really aren't that many checks, and the few there are can even be dealt with by these 2 ghost mons, albeit not as consistently.

:Cloyster: --> B-. I actually really like Cloyster in the meta. By no means is he the best but the Shell Smash + King's Rock is a really annoying and, at the same time, really fun gimmick that can be surprisingly effective. Cloyster has too many downsides to be considered a top tier threat, but B- reflects mons you really shouldn't underestimate and need to at least consider more in teambuilding.

:Quagsire: --> C+. Cratersmash sold me. See his post. Love it.

:Torkoal:/:Venusaur: --> C+. Ok, I'm not crazy. I think Sun is a fairly decent archetype in the current meta. Venusaur has almost no switch-ins under the Sun and a banded V-Create under sun from these 2's common partner is about the scariest thing ever. Torkoal is clearly the best sun setter in the game, and where Torkoal goes Venusaur goes. I can say I could even see Sun move to B-, but I like to approach things with trepidation.

Falls:

:Zeraora: --> A/A-. With ground being a nearly mandatory type in OU right now, the prominence of Lando, and the absolute lack of recovery for Zera it already had enough to stay out of the S tier. However, I think Zera is worse off then he was even recently. Koko is coming in as a rather superior Electric mon and, though I wouldn't say Zera is bad, his flaws are being exemplified because of it.

:Blissey: --> B+. I understand the viability of Blissey. I get that she checks some top mons, especially Pult. However, I really dislike the fact that physical wallbreakers, which are abundant in the current meta, cause such great pain to Bliss. If there were a couple less physical breakers popular right now Bliss would deserve to reside in the A/A- area like she does, but I don't think you can justify it with mons like Weavile, Urshifu, and even Buzzwole so abundant.

:Zapdos: --> B+. For a mon that is a flying, electric type with Defog potential it isn't the best at any of those 3. There are better picks most of the time for a bird, better for an electric, and better for a defogger. Not saying Zapdos is bad by any means, and some teams can fit him if they try. But he finds difficulty justifying his use a bit.

:Bisharp: --> B+/B. It really isn't that bisharp is bad. Actually, bisharp is quite good. It mostly is just the fact that there's very little reason to run it. Weavile is heads and shoulders above bisharp right now and it is going to take a really specific team to justify using this instead of the latter. Sometimes a mon doesn't need to be worse because of itself to drop, just because of a better option.

:Reuniclus: --> B-. When you can't get it done vs what I would consider the top 3 offensive threats in the game (Weavile, Pult, and Urshifu) you can't really justify being high on the Viability Ranking. Not to mention Kartana and Kyurem also checking it. Taunt has seen plenty of use as well. There really isn't much going for this guy unless everything goes his way.

:Mandibuzz: --> B-/C+. Mandibuzz is truly in a bad place right now. With the rise of other birds that are nearly all around better equipped to deal with the current meta Buzz just kind of falls off.

:Pelipper:/:Barraskewda:/:Kingdra: --> C+. I think it's been said before but Rain is relatively weak in the current meta. I love the archetype, but this is just not the time for it and the VR should reflect that. It is no better than Sun and I could even make the argument that Sun is maybe a bit stronger.

I hope these nominations seem reasonable. I'm not the best player but I love analysis. I'm also sure I missed a couple :)
Ok I tested a little more and I'm going to change a little bit here.


:Blacephalon: --> A-. It deserves it for every reason I already listed, but it just downright excels at the job it has. Absolutely a threat you always need to consider. I can see this thing rising even further in the future.

:Torkoal:/:Venusaur: --> B-. Sun is matchup bait, but I cannot stress enough how many times that bait leads to something getting hooked. Venusaur is just incredible under the sun, as is Victini. Heatran turns into an absolute monster as well. It's more often than I thought initially that I just find myself in a decimating sweep with the power behind these guys. I love it, it deserves it. Let's do it.

:Arctozolt:/:Ninetales-Alola: --> B-/B. If I'm going to rave about Sun I need to rave about hail. Arctozolt is to this weather what Venusaur is to its own. Absolutely terrifying to face and virtually unwallable under that cold. Who better to set it than our little Alolan Tales? With Aurora Veil, absolutely no one. She also has a great movepool and the ability to screen. What's not to love? Weather is no joke right now and it needs to be acknowledged.

:Hatterene:/:Cresselia:/:Porygon2:/:Marowak-Alola: --> C/C+. Ok hear me out. Trick Room is a little viable right now. I know it's always been a gimmick, but it's actually started to work. It was evident in OLT, but you are seeing it on the ladder more. It isn't amazing, but you have to include it now. I am not including the more gimmicky :Golurk: here, I do not think that's what made the Trick Room great. But I have to acknowledge its viability. Maybe it is just me, but I think raising them all to sit with Cresselia in C is safe, while an argument for C+ can be made. :Crawdaunt: can also be considered here.

Noms I agree with

:Amoonguss: --> B-.
:Terrakion: --> B-
:Slowking: --> A-
:Slowbro: --> A-/A(maybe)
:Swampert: --> B-

Noms I disagree with


:Dragapult: --> S-
:Hydreigon: --> B+
:Hawlucha: --> B-
 
Last edited:
My VR nom agreements:

Rises :

:Weavile: -> S-. Weavile is getting better and better. 1 SD and it can autowin many games. It breaks anything slower than it with a powerful Knock-off or Triple Axel. Anything faster than it, it can RK with Ice Shard (Interestingly, no naturally faster mon in OU resists Ice Shard). If you forget to bring in a reliable Weavile switchin, you are bound to get 6-0ed by it (which are anyway limited to Tapu Fini, Physically Defensive Scizor, Skarmory, Toxapex and Buzzwole. Others like Urshifu-R and Melmetal depend on their items too much to hate switching into Knock-off)

:Tapu Fini: -> A+. Tapu Fini checks a plethora of top threats like Weavile, Dragapult, Urshifu-R, Heatran. Tapu Fini further provides immense utility such as sweeping with CM, Speed Control when equipped with Scarf, Stallbreaking with Taunt + Nature's Madness (NM is really underrated IMO in the meta; it's fantastic to use early game), Trapping with Whirpool, as well as Hazard Control with Defog (not the best Defogger, but can use it if role-compression is necessary). Compression of so many positive traits means that Tapu Fini is a near-necessary glue on Bulky Offenses, convincing me enough to give it A+ rank.

:Tapu Koko: -> A+. Tapu Koko doesn't have many reliable switchins, and the few that do like Lando-T, Heatran, Glowking etc.. are all slower than it. This allows Tapu Koko to predict and chip these switchins with Dazzling Gleam in case of former and Thunderbolt in case of latter. Then, all Tapu Koko has to do is U-Turn out of these checks and bring in teammates who deal with these checks. Further, Tapu Koko can easily switch into weaker moves like Toxapex's Scald and regain lost HP using Roost. These trait make Tapu Koko a Pokemon who barely loses momentum and thus, it fits on both offensive and bulkier archetypes. It is arguably one of the easiest Pokemon to use in the metagame.

:Tornadus-Therian: -> A+. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...ng-thread-read-post-1024.3674058/post-8901527

:Scizor: -> A. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...ng-thread-read-post-1024.3674058/post-8915319

:Blacephalon: -> A-. Ghost + Fire STAB combo is near unwallable, especially when it comes from 153 Special Attack. This makes Specs Blace an absolute menace with very limited switchins, limited to Hydreigon, Tyranitar, SpDef Regen + Dark + Bulky Water type core. Blissey is not a check coz it can get tricked into using Choice Specs, while Blace gains HDB. It further sits at a good speed tier for a wallbreaker at 107, outspeeding the likes of Tapu Lele, Garchomp, Urshifu-R. Most people here have asked for B+ or A-.I believe it deserves the latter. This is because the aforementioned traits and limited checks mean it is a serious threat to consider in teambuiling, else it can get a kill every time it switches in safely.

:Slowbro: -> A-. Slowbro IMO is at par with Slowking currently. Slowbro checks Urshifu-R, Melmetal, Hawlucha and softchecks SD Garchomp if using Ice Beam. It can also lure and OHKO Weavile with Colbur Berry + Body Press.

Falls :

:Dragapult: -> S-. Dragapult is still a metagame defining Pokemon that need teambuilding preparation. However, the rise of threats like Weavile and Tapu Fini has meant that it can't spam Shadow Balls as mindless as it could a few months ago. Being locked into Shadow Ball means that these 2 checks get the opportunity to set up and sweep. Further, Weavile's rise further means that it faces new competition for the slot of speed controller and revenge killer, factors which make Dragapult slightly less viable than it was.

:Slowking: -> A-. Agreed with Gomi. Slowking is on a decline. On OU and Smogon Discord servers, we call it "a special pivot that loses to all special attackers". It would have dropped further, if not for utility like FS, Teleport, Scald burns etc..

:Zapdos: -> B+. I seriously don't remember the last time I used Zapdos. Zapdos can neither defog well, not paralyze reliably, nor can it damage accurately, nor can it pivot out very well. 1 Knock-off and its turns are numbered.

:Blissey: -> B+. Blissey is too passive in such a fast, pivot-heavy metagame. It may be a great blanket check to Special Attackers, but is thinner than a tissue against most physical attackers like Kartana, Weavile and Garchomp. These physical attackers also love forcing out Blissey to setup an SD and sweep. Further, Blissey also has a chance to lose to Special Attackers such as ID + BP Magnezone, Heatran, Tapu Lele and Kyurem. Finally, it faces heavy competition from special sponges like G-Slowking who are far less passive and thus fit archetypes like Bulky Offense much better.

My VR nom disagreements:

:Garchomp: -> A. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...ng-thread-read-post-1024.3674058/post-8924423

:Kartana: -> A+. Kartana may be one of the best wallbreakers in the metagame, but frankly I think its fine where it is. This is because Kartana is prediction-reliant and doesn't like being locked into any move. Further, it is very easy RK fodder for Dragapult, Zeraora, Tornadus-T etc.. These traits mean that it has switch out plenty of times in the game, which hands over momentum and initiative to the opponent. While it breaks walls like none other, it gets manhandled by speedy teams. Scarf Kart exists to surprise these RKers, but doesn't hit as hard against walls, which makes it a mediocre set.

:Zeraora: -> A-. I have seen way too many people give flak to Zera, and I think we must cut it some slack. The main argument made by these people is that it is a worse pivot than Tapu Koko hence it must drop to A-, directly from A+. I agree that it is a worse pivot than Tapu Koko, as Zera barely gets a chance to Volt Switch out due to grounds switching into it. However, Zera's role has changed from a pivot to a wincon using Bulk Up. And in this role, it is really, really good. All it needs is a decent amount of chip on grounds like Lando-T (which it can do by itself early game by Knocking-off Lefties and accumulating permanent damage on it). Then, it can click Bulk Up once or twice to clean up late game (it gets to BU twice very easily - 1st BU is when it forces a switch, 2nd BU is before the opponent attacks in the next turn). Zera can moreover give up Bulk Up for Toxic, which helps it put its regular switchins like Lando-T, Buzzwole, Tangrowth etc.. on a timer, which aids teammates like SD Garchomp to sweep late game.

:Hydreigon: -> B+. While the popularity of Tapu Fini and awkward speed tier mean that Hydreigon is not in an ideal place in the metagame, it can still blow holes with its NP set, while dismantling defensive cores with a 3 attack + LO set. It has a good movepool in Dark Pulse, Flash Cannon, Earth Power, Draco Meteor, Flamethrower, Superpower etc.. that helps it choose which cores to target. It has a lot of useful defensive properties. Its Dark typing means that it makes Dragapult think twice before clicking Shadow Ball, while it is a great check to Heatran and G-Slowking. It also has longevity thanks to Roost, meaning it can negate chip damage accumulated from LO and switching in. Most importantly, Hydreigon is a check to Blacephalon, something very few Pokemon boast of, making it a valuable addition to many teams.
 
Last edited:
:Weavile: -> S-
This guy, in addition to the several points already argued by other players and that I don't want to repeat, offers a quick progress in SS OU. Progress, in SS OU. You might need some Future Sight support for Toxapex or Magnezone for Metal Birds and that's why I think S- is more appropriate than S.

:Shuckle: -> UR
I assume the only reason to use Shuckle is Sticky Web. Unlike Ribombee (C-), he doesn't have a "plan B" with Quiver Dance. And Sticky Web in SS OU, where teams have 3/4 Pokémon Flying or Boots and the rest don't mind being slower (SlowTwins) is extremely inconsistent even to justify its presence in C. UR or at least in C- with Ribombee.
 
:obstagoon: C -> UR/C-
Oh my god this is horrible. It spends every turn praying that nobody knocks off its flame orb, whilst being outclassed competely by bisharp as a defiant stallbreaker (ngl neither of them are good because of 4x fighting weakness). Obstagoon's typing doesn't do it any great favors either. Besides countering mew, it gets u turned on by dragapult (or just gets smacked by specs draco meteor). It also has a WEAKNESS TO U TURN AND SUBPAR SPEED, whilst not blocking flip turn or volt switch, meaning obstagoon is super easy to pivot against. I guess it has a fringe against toxapex but thats just 'bout it. Obstagoon is super easy to chip due to burn damage coupled with entry hazard neutrallity and the inability to run HDBs because it can't do crap without flame orb, and worst of all for obstagoon is the aforementioned QUAD FIGHTING WEAKNESS. It gets banished to the shadow realm by moistshifu and corv, being weak to fairy SUCKS as well and that results in 1 less phsycic obstagoon can counter (lele), while victini can either u turn on you or suprise attack you with brick break (a fighting type move). Alakazam is very niche but can focus blast you and OHKO you. Its decent against kantonian slowtwins, but its bad spdef makes it but a bad check to galarian slowking. Looks are decieving and relin is probably going to drop soon and dazzling gleam lol. LatiTwins are very niche but can aura sphere it to oblivion, and i don't even think its better than any of the stuff in C-. At least shedinja can wall very certain things, Rilloombee can set webs (agree with Tio Chico's shuckle nom), zam is a niche np breaker, ngl idk what conk does because i've never seen anyone use it in OU, Xatu can at least keep hazards and status ailments away, Uxie sets trick room, alolawak is a good TR attacker, geezing can defog i suppose, slowbro-g has goated belly drum AV and cm but it still is worse than gking, Celesteela can be annoying, Charziard can SOMETIMES sweep, hatt is an alolawak scenario, and inceneroar can intimdate + parting shot <--- goated move
TLDR obstagoon is worse than all the C- mons and should be UR or C-
 
Couple noms I was thinking abt.

:ferrothorn: to A+
This is an excellent pick in this meta. Counters rising threats like Tapu Fini/Koko (the general sentiment in this thread is that koko is a better pick than zera rn, making ferro a better pick) , and iron head is a great fourth slot option to decimate Weavile, a top threat in this meta, as well as helping it do decent damage to Kyurem. Overall its ability to force progress in battles with spikes, knock off, and leech seed; alongside its ability, is unmatched in this meta and its ranking should reflect that.

:blaziken: to B/B+

Also Blaziken should be S+ cuz it's secretly broken but I won't open that can of worms here :)
I am once again asking for a blaziken rise, because of weavile's unprecedented rise to the top of ou, making the fire chicken a great anti meta pick. Seriously tho, some of those weavile teams y'all have been using are 6-0'd. All the stuff blaze blows past during a sweep, like corviknight and buzzwole, are great in this meta, while shitbuzz has completely fallen off a cliff, slowbro is still seeing low usage, and fini is usually running spdef to check dragapult, leaving it susceptible to thunder punch (you do need to watch for scarf tho). Spdef lando and hippo are also gaining traction, so the meta is leaving less and less things on teams that can check blaze defensively. Its important to mention that adamant blaziken is still faster than weavile after one speed boost, so it's virtually no risk to go for the sd. Protect sets are still solid imo, and deserve to be used more for their lategame cleaning potential. Cb is not good and I don't get why ppl are using it, its a terrible set that doesnt take advantage of blaziken's main appeal, speed boost, since being locked into a move means you aren't staying in for long.

Other noms I agree with:

:Weavile: -> S-
Progress, in SS OU.
:Slowking: -> A-
Teleport is the only thing keeping this from the B ranks, glowking is so much better in every other way

:Zeraora: -> A-

:Zapdos: -> B+

:cloyster: ->B+
Higher than a lot of other ppl have put it, but this has been gaining attention for a reason, it's single-handedly getting luck-based items banned all across smogon. Good sweepers are hard to come by in SS OU, and this is one of the best picks for the role.

:mandibuzz: ->B-
 
So I think that the VR is due for a bit of a revamp, particularly in the A and C ranks. Most of these are based on OLT and WCoP trends. Spoilered for your convenience. Save your haha reacts for someone else lol, obviously don’t have to follow through with any of these noms but I did spend quite a bit of time on this and it’s not just impulse thinking either, a lot of these really are due and have been for a while imo. ban pikachufan

S Rank:

S Rank


Landorus-Therian

S- Rank

Dragapult
hurt a bit by the uptick in fini, weavile, spd mons that can eat sballs like lando and hippo, just a generally less spammable mon for speed control and wallbreaking, still amazing but not as defining. other sets exist but specs is still the best one by a mile.
Heatran
Weavile
best wincon, insane speed control and breaker, goes to town on lando balances, forces progress, stopgap for pult, can beat everything long term with boots+sd. crazy that it’s gone from a bad uubl mon to top 4 in the tier. biggest viability rise in ss ou history.

A Rank:

A+ Rank


Clefable
Corviknight
Garchomp
Slowking-Galar

such a good tank and a fixture on all sorts of teams. checks all special attackers to some degree and can pick and choose what it beats with a giant movepool. av is the best one but it’s got cm, np, and even tricksludge up its sleeve to fulfill specific roles. it loves the fall of johto king since it doesn’t have to compete for that slot as much, compresses checks for a ton of special mons which is really valued rn
Tapu Fini

fini is just wild. puts a stop to heatran, weavile, moistshifu, and dragapult and fills a glue role for tons of teams. cm is goated at abusing those mons, whirlpool is nuts as well, scarf is super good, utility set is still bad but it exists i guess haha. role compression, versatility, and great matchups make it truly incredible. tbh i think it’s s- worthy but a+ is fine
Tapu Koko

great pivot, speed control, cleaner, lowkey broken typing lends it great defensive utility in spite of low bulk, roost and it being specially based makes it a good switchin for bulky waters which a lot of teams really value, it can run past its checks really easily longterm, it even has that cm set which competes with zera as a fast electric wincon if u wanna try it, mon is just great
Tornadus-Therian

it doesn’t die, taunt sets are great at shutting down fat mons, pivots on and knocks your whole team, np sets also exist and can be good if a bit unreliable, checks a ton of stuff and can bypass counterplay longterm pretty easily
Toxapex
Urshifu-R

A Rank

Buzzwole
soooo good rn. it beats basically every physical attacker barring a few of our more niche ones such as gapdos and flying move lures on stuff like kart. i think that citing fsight support as a means of taking it down isn’t as valid anymore as king and bro not only suck these days but are forced out by it. it’s really really crucial as a part of many defensive backbones just because there’s so many threats in the meta and it compresses checks for so many things. good breaker as well as it can pick and choose what it threatens which plenty of coverage- i like to think of it as the glowking of physical offense.
Ferrothorn
Hippowdon
handles pult and many other special attackers quite decently these days including koko volc tran glowking etc (and also zera), basically just a good special wall, sand is nice too ig, pretty much a staple of hazard stack as well. bulky ground with recovery and rocks is a great niche and worthy of a rank imo
Kartana
Kyurem
Melmetal
Tapu Lele
Volcarona
Zeraora
pivot set is super outdone by koko so it’s here for bulk up wincon. still really good at outlasting things longterm but it’s just swapped with koko because it offers less in the current state of the meta

A- Rank

Blacephalon
ngl this is just a top 5 breaker in the meta rn, hits so hard and exploits most of the common trends quite well. ttar isn’t great and that’s basically the only wall to it. good speed tier that beats kyurem and lele and chomp and moistshifu, unfortunately is outsped by some big meta threats (and pretty much everything that outruns it ohko’s it) but the ability to snag a ko every time it gets in aside from when facing ttar or mixdef pex+ghost resist with trick on top of that secures this spot in my eyes
Blissey
Dragonite
weavile and koko and fini all being as good as they are render this a bit worse, it also can’t break bulky steels too reliably so that’s something to consider. a- fits better
Hydreigon
Magnezone
Mew
really really good spiker. it has much less passivity than skarm and ferro and the speed on top of the giant movepool make it quite good. it also has other sets like demon mew that keep it unpredictable.
Rillaboom
Rotom-Wash
the momentum and ability to check stuff like tran and torn is more valuable than ever right now, maybe i’m a bit high on this but it’s just super great at its job and puts in work most every game
Scizor
Skarmory
Slowking
much too abusable by like um
every special attacker? it’s not the king of momentum anymore just because too many things beat it. still has the golden fsight regenport combo and more value than bro in the meta atm so a- is accurate in any case
Tapu Bulu
people will be mad but it’s on par with rilla in my opinion. breaks tons of fat stuff, great defensive utility, and it’s just really good at its job. it also supports its team very well with grassy terrain.
Victini
really good at forming offensive cores with tons of stuff like koko, weavile, and chomp. it has plentiful coverage, high power, and it also is entirely nuts under sun. good breaker and offensive check to stuff like lele too

B Rank:

B+ Rank


Aegislash
great defensive utility, ghost stab is super tough to handle, specs has like two switchins both of which are trending down right now, and it abuses common trends like glowking to a solid degree. also sd with shadow sneak is alright and can’t be revenged by any of the fast ghosts which is deserving of attention for sure.
Bisharp
weavile is really good at outcompeting it in the dark type breaker/pult stopgap role and buzzwole being so good is really tough for it. still good but less good imo
Nidoking
Slowbro
Tangrowth
Tyranitar
Zapdos
not as good as before, it’s far worse than corv at defogging and things like glowking and bulu getting better suck for it. once the boots are knocked it goes really quickly. beats torn and fini so it still has that going for it i guess

B Rank

Blaziken
mostly better because it can abuse trends- beating buzzwole and weavile and appreciating lando switching to spd and fini being easy to wear down means that it’s easier to use and better at its job.
Dracozolt
down here with exca because they’re both meh sand mons. it hates the fact that spd lando and spd hippo and sd weavile are good right now all of which beat it.
Excadrill
Gastrodon
Hawlucha
Kommo-o
Reuniclus
Swampert
Zapdos-Galar
slowbro is pretty meh, hippo runs spd, fini is easy to wear down, buzzwole loses to it, and lando runs spd as well all of which favor it so it rises a bit.

B- Rank

Amoonguss
good sball midground, shuts fini down, spreads tons of status, handles koko and moistshifu and some other things. still super passive and lets every steel in for free but its good qualities are enough to merit this rise.
Arctozolt

it kinda kills everything. it’s prediction reliant as all heck and hail turns get stalled out so it doesn’t deserve higher but with good predicts it can tear through most teams.
Cloyster

king’s rock and shell smash spam are what makes this good. everyone has gotten cheesed by this and it has cheesed everyone. b- is appropriate
Mamoswine
good breaker that can revenge kill pult and abuse some big meta threats. slow and prediction reliant so b- is plenty high.
Moltres
Moltres-Galar
Ninetales-Alola
kinda checks weavile, sets hail for zolt and has veil and extra utility in hypnosis and encore which merits this rise in my eyes
Terrakion
really tough to wall and has a very nice speed tier to boot. it has the natural bulk and typing to trade with weavile and tornadus and volcarona and pult which is great.
Togekiss
good stopgap for pult on ho teams and is quite great on those teams. decent threat for sure

C Rank:

C+ Rank


Azumarill
Barraskewda
rain is worse. skewda drops. no need to complicate it
Crawdaunt
Cresselia
tr as an archetype is improving and cress is the flagship mon of that archetype. that’s that.
Gengar
Glastrier
Grimmsnarl
Jirachi
Latias
Latios
Mandibuzz
probably my spiciest take. this mon sucks so bad. imo it’s the worst ou mon. can’t wall anything, loses the boots so often, pult just beats it plain and simple, crippled by 4mss and it’s passive as heck. good grief this is bad.
Pelipper

like skewda it’s dropping because rain is worse
Primarina
Quagsire
slightly better as stall is seeing a bit more viability as a playstyle. honestly was just ranked a bit low to begin with.
Rotom-Heat
Shedinja
shedinja stall is the most consistent variant these days so it really should be higher up as it represents a playstyle that is about c+ in viability. kinda a matchup fish and hates many trends but it being a representative of the entire shedinja stall playstyle merits this place on the vr
Thundurus-Therian
Torkoal
it’s just the sun setter for some unwallable mons and the anchor of sun as a playstyle which is plenty reason to rise as sun is rising
Venusaur

sun is better and this is a staple sun mon. it’s sticking with torkoal.
Volcanion

balance breaker that can abuse the trends and it has defensive utility in checking fini and weavile quite well.
Zarude

C Rank

Ditto
Hatterene
tr staple and tr is better than before. rise makes sense.
Keldeo
Kingdra
heavy reliance on prediction to break anything, has a lot of difficultly in sweeping as well since it has to click the right move over and over.
Marowak-Alola
walling this under tr is a pain. spd lando is a favorable trend for it. tr is better and this is kinda the tr mascot.
Obstagoon
Uxie
reflecting the tr rise again
Weezing-Galar

nice physical wall that is very able to get in the way of weav and chomp and moistshifu and lando and buzzwole and kart and rilla and dragonite and zeraora and some others. no recovery and competition with other really physical walls keep it down but it can just wall all of those attackers so well.

C- Rank

Alakazam
Charizard
Conkeldurr
Golurk
i don’t have replays for this ur nom but it just spams poltergeist forever on trick room teams and that’s valuable enough to be here in my eyes. just as a general breaker i see merit as well since ghost+fighting+ground coverage is so crazy good and it can pick and choose what it wants to smack with that 4th slot such as ice punch or heat crash or even trick.
Regieleki
just switch in your ground type. it has that substitute protect set that is popping off a bit in uu which i think has a place in ou as well but very very very very very very very niche. imo it’s the very worst ou-viable mon.
Ribombee
Salazzle
really not worthy of much attention but it can do stuff every once in a while
Seismitoad
reflecting the drop in rain
Slowbro-Galar
Suicune
just use cm fini. all it offers over fini is pressure. so we’ll call it c- for that.
Toxtricity
such an outclassed breaker and electric type. boomburst is very very nice though.
Xatu

UR Crew:

Celesteela
don’t even try with this one. skarm and corv cover every bit of niche that it might have. it can’t touch the regen waters and it’s so easy to play around.
Incineroar

i get the idea behind this thing- check pult and gengar and aegislash and blace and weavile and pivot/knock things but it’s just not enough in this tier. other things like fini and buzz cover the ground that this covers better.
Shuckle

boots exist and ribombee is better at webs anyway.
 

Finchinator

You’re so golden
is a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderatoris a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis the defending BW Circuit Champion
OU & NU Leader
:obstagoon: C -> UR/C-
Oh my god this is horrible. It spends every turn praying that nobody knocks off its flame orb, whilst being outclassed competely by bisharp as a defiant stallbreaker (ngl neither of them are good because of 4x fighting weakness). Obstagoon's typing doesn't do it any great favors either. Besides countering mew, it gets u turned on by dragapult (or just gets smacked by specs draco meteor). It also has a WEAKNESS TO U TURN AND SUBPAR SPEED, whilst not blocking flip turn or volt switch, meaning obstagoon is super easy to pivot against. I guess it has a fringe against toxapex but thats just 'bout it. Obstagoon is super easy to chip due to burn damage coupled with entry hazard neutrallity and the inability to run HDBs because it can't do crap without flame orb, and worst of all for obstagoon is the aforementioned QUAD FIGHTING WEAKNESS. It gets banished to the shadow realm by moistshifu and corv, being weak to fairy SUCKS as well and that results in 1 less phsycic obstagoon can counter (lele), while victini can either u turn on you or suprise attack you with brick break (a fighting type move). Alakazam is very niche but can focus blast you and OHKO you. Its decent against kantonian slowtwins, but its bad spdef makes it but a bad check to galarian slowking. Looks are decieving and relin is probably going to drop soon and dazzling gleam lol. LatiTwins are very niche but can aura sphere it to oblivion, and i don't even think its better than any of the stuff in C-. At least shedinja can wall very certain things, Rilloombee can set webs (agree with Tio Chico's shuckle nom), zam is a niche np breaker, ngl idk what conk does because i've never seen anyone use it in OU, Xatu can at least keep hazards and status ailments away, Uxie sets trick room, alolawak is a good TR attacker, geezing can defog i suppose, slowbro-g has goated belly drum AV and cm but it still is worse than gking, Celesteela can be annoying, Charziard can SOMETIMES sweep, hatt is an alolawak scenario, and inceneroar can intimdate + parting shot <--- goated move
TLDR obstagoon is worse than all the C- mons and should be UR or C-


Obstagoon is a mediocre Pokemon in a metagame filled with competitive Darks like Weavile and Bisharp, but it is still viable due to Guts+Orb giving it an impressive STAB situation, letting it avoid status, and even swap into Knock Off post-orb activation. Ghost immunities are also a rarity on offensive Pokemon, which gives it some sliver of hope. Obviously Obstagoon is a far cry from reliable, but it is very much viable and C rank or C- rank captures a lot of Pokemon that are in a similar, if not slightly worse, situation.

4x weaknesses are what they are. Landorus-T and Heatran are both 4x weak to common types, but they are still atop the tier. I dislike how you emphasize type weaknesses and obsess over the type chart in half of your arguments; what matters is what happens in practice rather than...well, that.

If we are discussing the lower sub-tiers, Celesteela, Incineroar, and Weezing-Galar are the closest to UR, in my opinion. I have seen a grand total of 0 of each of these Pokemon over the last few weeks of laddering, including the climb through the ranks where people use subpar Pokemon for the sake of doing it. Celesteela in theory has some nice traits and versatility, but it has no sticking power and nobody has been able to make succesful use of it this entire generation. Incineroar is a cool Ghost resist, but it provides nothing else and that is not enough to justify it with Spectrier banned and other Dark types taking off. Finally, Weezing-Galar has been pitiful since the DLC2 release -- nothing has changed, it is still not usable, so we should ditch it.
 

Windingsss

good 4 you
is a Top Social Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Two quick noms cause im bored and its 1 am woooo

:blissey: A- -> B+

Hot take: Blissey is just not good anymore. Last time i saw a Blissey doing something that wasnt taking damage and teleporting out to death was a DLC ago, oops! I really dont get the point of this mon in the current meta; hell, i think someone said even stall teams were dropping Blissey? Idk. One would thing it has a great bulk and all and then you realise the mons it wants to check get a pivot move or a way to beat it (Like Safeguard Volc), so, congratulations, you lost momentum! Im pretty sure the only thing Blissey checks currently is Glowking and ehh. In a meta where stuff like Weavile, Urshifu-R, among others can abuse it and there isnt stuff to check, Blissey doesnt really shine.

:scizor: A- -> A

God i cant express how much i love this thing. Scizor is a very cool mon that has found its way into many teams like HO, Bulky Offense, Balance, etc and you can see why. Steel-type? Check. Good bulk? Check. Pivot? Check. Knock Off user? Check. Wincon with SD? Check. Its a very cool Steel-type that can retain momentum and hold teams together, checking stuff like Tapu Lele, Kyurem and Rillaboom while also hitting hard with STAB Bullet Punch and coverage options like Superpower and Psycho Cut on specific teams.
 

Abhi

Professional Zoomer
is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
Helo
:Weavile: -> S-
Weavile is currently dominating the metagame and is definitely worth S- in my eyes. Its an incredibly splashable and effective breaker, being a menace to check and its usage represents its viability. Its ability to speed control and break and act as a Dark resist just makes it shine in my eyes.

:Dragapult: -> S-
Recent trends with Spdef Landorus-T, Galarian Slowking, Tapu Fini and Weavile makes it a lot harder for Dragapult to break as well it could before, it still is great don't get me wrong, just not as great as it was once.

:tapu-koko: -> A+
Its been great recently, having defensive utility with Roost and being able to switch into things like Corviknight and Tornadus-T, and also being just a menace to deal with since it can overwhelm the ever common Spdef Landorus-T pretty easily, and also deal with Glowking by chipping it down with U-turn. Its currently a lot better than Zeraora at the moment.

:Zeraora: -> A-
Zeraora is just not that great anymore, it sure is still annoying as ever to deal with, and its Knock / Toxic set or it's Bulk Up set are still great, it's just Tapu Kokos rise in viability and its lack of defensive utility also shows.

Arctozolt -> B-
Its a genuinely good mon, and most teams aren't prepared to deal with it, it's high power STABs make up nicely for its dissapointing attack stats, and its ability to break common defensive cores is pretty impressive. It isn't the best mon out there since it does have a fair share of checks ie. Ferrothorn, Magnezone (not a great check since it gets Low Kicked) and the rare Gastrodon which just makes it unable to force any progress. The Substitute set is probably my favourite rn.

Other noms I agree with:
:Tornadus-Therian: -> A+
:kartana: -> A+
:Cloyster: -> B-
:tapu-fini: -> A+

Ps. Sorry if the post looks weird I did it on mobile
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 14, Guests: 14)

Top