Resource SS OU DLC2 Viability Ranking Thread [See Post #1517 on Page 61]

+
Just another voice in the choir at this point, but these two deserve a significant rise. I believe Hail is the best weather in the current metagame, and probably just the best hyper offensive structure in general. Arctozolt takes advantage of STAB BoltBeam and decimates any team that hasn't specifically thought about this match up in the builder. When I start thinking of A rank Pokemon I think of either incredible glue mons or offensive mons you have to take a second to individually check and see if your team holds up against them in the builder, as opposed to just blanket checking them with some generic fat mons. Arctozolt has started to do this, it's only anecdotal but I've definitely been seeing more SpDef Swampert on the ladder (one of the better answers to Arctozolt if it is not running Freeze Dry) and I know it is because people fear Arctozolt.

Another thing worth mentioning is the current diversity these two, more specifically Ninetales, create in the builder. Rain and Sand which have been the superior weather archetypes for the last few generations always seemed to stick to a pretty standard shell. Every few months some innovation would occur but it would quickly become common place. However, Hail teams are so different from game to game it becomes a lot harder to game plan for them, since you wont be able to regularly preserve certain mons for specific match ups since you could play 3 games and each team will use a completely different method to wear down your answers to Arctozolt. This leading to an uptick in Arctozolt consistency.

These two are a potent pair and similarly to how Pelipper has been ranked in the past almost solely based on the viability of rain in general, I believe these two should get a rise based on the success of Hail teams overall.
 
1629337780320.png
+
1629337792483.png
to A

I don't have a ton to say about these two themselves, a ton of other people have already done an excellent job of explaining why they deserve the rise and I think at this point almost everyone understands why they're so good. I do however have some thoughts on some of the posts advocating for a more conservative raise for the duo. I've seen a couple of posts claiming that the bump to A is too large because there exists the potential that Hail is only a cool trend and will come down in the near future. Not to put too fine a point on this, but honestly I don't really think anyone should care about that lol. The purpose of the VR, in my view at least, is to give an accurate view of the metagame at this given moment, not to try to predict what stuff will stay good for a while and what's gonna have a short shelf life. There's really no sense in being innacurate out of some weird sense of caution. If in a month or two Hail has completely died out and is no longer worthy of a high spot on the VR, just lower them back down then, no big deal. At this moment in time, though, Hail is definitely worthy of being called an A rank threat, and the current VR should reflect that.
 
Hard disagree. Magnezone is limited and one dimensional in it's role of trapping steel types, but it is effective enough at that role that it is extremely valuable on various offenses. Plus it doesnt only remove steels; it can abuse the fact that many of them cant touch to get a substitute iron defense off and potentially sweep. Also, it is a decent breaker thanks to how hard it hits. Magnezone feels fine where it is: too limited to move up, but too effective to move down.

Zeraora I've made an entire post about, so I'll keep this short. I frankly don't understand what you mean by inability to do anything. Zeraora is an excellent form of speed control that wears down its checks through knock off/toxic, and serves as an excellent late game cleaner through bulk up. Plus, toxic very well can be "the end of the world" against certain mons who are put a timer and become absolutely horrible at checking teammates like swords dance garchomp. Plus it has the speed that you yourself value enough that you think Dragapult should be above A+ tier because of it, but it doesn't just tie with dragapult, it outspeeds it.
I suppose I stand corrected on Zeraora. However, I still stand with the Magnezone drop. According to the descriptions of what each rank is supposed to represent, which I found here, Magnezone is more of a B rank pokemon for me since Magnezone is not easy to fit on teams. According to the description, B rank mons can properly fulfill a niche, something which Magnezone does in spades. However, the fact that it isn't easy to put on teams, can sometimes not carry its weight in a match and becomes setup fodder for the likes of Garchomp or Volcarona means it fits the B ranks more than A
 
:garchomp: Garchomp is still a borderline S even now with the trendy ice types and hail being a top thing. a big reason is simply because it is the offensive defensive Pokémon.

Specifically it’s offensive set has so much miscellaneous utility you really appreciate when team building. Whether it’s having a hard to find :heatran: check, or maybe you need something to switch into :zeraora: , or it could be that you need something that can tank an uninvested hurricane or three, and actually threaten back the annoying birds.

maybe you need something offensive that can actually deal with :Volcarona: , whilst threatening a sweep of its own..

Sometimes you might need a little rough skin just to chip that :corviknight: on its u turn so that when it decides to come in later on your :Kartana: , it’s getting KO’d.

the occasional sun + fire spam team bothering you? Well :Torkoal: and friends ( :victini: :heatran: :blacephalon: :Venusaur: ) have an obstacle in the way. And if it finds the space to get a swords dance, they will struggle to deal with it.

It’s the only Pokémon in OU that can viably run about 6+ items, or even no item if trick room poltergeist :Marowak-alola: is terrifying you. It has great lure sets, whether you want to lure a :Tapu koko: into thinking it can KO you at 65%, whilst you tech a berry, or metronome +2 fire fang your way past a 252/252 impish :corviknight:

You might even been shocked by a Garchomp getting a +1 to SpDef (from misty seed) on your :Tapu fini: switch in, and suddenly it’s at +2 attack and +1 SpDef, how is your fini going to deal with that ..!

no other top tier Pokémon has its sheer level of offensive defensive utility. Even the Swiss Army knife itself, landorus, isn’t the best defensively when it’s running an offensive set.



speaking of trendy ice types and hail teams, it supports the following:

:Kartana: A+ , due to its specially defensive set almost soloing ice teams, in addition to previous points noted about being able to reliably check the Tapus.

:Volcarona: A+ or maybe even S, the bulky set is still the best wincon in the meta, however the ability to switch into ice moves and then surprise threats like arctozolt with easily surviving the follow up bolt beak before using flamethrower, makes volc a very strong threat. It’s ability to spread burns right now is amazing, and the fact that the newest trending threats it likes to switch into now rarely have knock off, makes it a top tier bulky bruiser that spreads burns.

bulkarona was a top tier threat in the era of knock off zeraora, Weavile, Kartana and Rillaboom.

now It’s even better with the surge of nine tails, arctozolt, Melmetal, kyurem and urshifu.



:Tapu lele: what do you all think of lele being promoted in rankings. Stall is not really a thing, so her wall breaking is less useful, however there is something so satisfying about lele’s ability to open up holes. Her lum berry set puts massive pressure on common pivots/cores. Whether that’s a tornadus, a corviknight, a fini or even a clefable.



:tornadus-therian: A+ or S , I am dumbfounded why tornadus has gets so little use relative to its utility. It’s such a reliable Pokémon that can do it’s job. Hurricanes miss chance kinda sucks, but you can completely forgo it if you want and just use it as a knock off / u turn spammer. You won’t really miss the hurricane.
 
Last edited:
I suppose I stand corrected on Zeraora. However, I still stand with the Magnezone drop. According to the descriptions of what each rank is supposed to represent, which I found here, Magnezone is more of a B rank pokemon for me since Magnezone is not easy to fit on teams. According to the description, B rank mons can properly fulfill a niche, something which Magnezone does in spades. However, the fact that it isn't easy to put on teams, can sometimes not carry its weight in a match and becomes setup fodder for the likes of Garchomp or Volcarona means it fits the B ranks more than A
From the ORAS OU VR that you referenced:

"A
Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame and can perform well against most play styles, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently. Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time. Pokemon in this rank are also known to define the play styles they fit on or are easy to add on any given team, while being able to carry their weight nearly every match.

B
Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job, are setup bait for dangerous sweepers, or often give too many free turns. Pokemon who are partially outperformed or struggle with taking on the Pokemon in the A or S Rank, but are otherwise dangerous in their own right and aren't difficult to fit on teams, may also fall into this category."

doesn't fully fit the criterion for a B rank pokemon. The "negative" conditions presented for a pokemon to be in B rank go as follows: they cannot sweep/wall most of the metagame, have large flaws that stop them from doing their given role, can be heavily abused by many sweepers, and can give away momentum to the opponent. While Magnezone can potentially allow Swords Dance Garchomp or Quiver Dance Volcorona to set up, it doesn't necessarily have significant flaws that prevent it from trapping Steel types, with the only Steel it truly loses to being Heatran. Additionally, few pokemon appreciate taking a Choice Specs Thunderbolt/Flash Cannon, or an Iron Defense boosted Body Press. The point about giving away momentum doesn't apply either, as Magnezone has an excellent momentum tool in Volt Switch. I don't agree with the hard to fit point either, as Magnezone is an absolutely quintessential part of various Hyper Offenses/Bulky Offenses, that all can get out of hand with Steels removed. While usage viability, I think it's applicable here. According to Pikalytics, Magnezone currently has a 10.32% usage rate at high ladder (1825+), meaning that 1/10 teams you will face on high ladder will have Magnezone. So, either Magnezone isn't hard to fit, or the teams it has a place on are commonplace enough for it to see high usage, despite being hard to fit.

Now let's take a look at the criteria for an A rank pokemon, which Magnezone admittedly doesn't fully fit either. Magnezone performs well against almost every play style, since steel types are typical on every archetype. However, even if the opponent doesnt have a steel type, Magnezone can still put in work as a solid wallbreaker/setup sweeper. Now it certainly won't be as effective as it would be if the opponent were to have a Steel, but it's far from useless. Still, I wouldn't say it perfectly fits the bill of "being able to carry their weight nearly every match". Furthermore, Magnezone is effective at its job, but still requires team support to be useful: trapping Steel types is fine and dandy, but you need to have teammates that abuse Steel types being removed in order for it to be as valuable.

Going over the norms for a pokemon to be either A or B rank, it seems like Magnezone is sandwiched in between, leaning towards A rank. I'd say A- fits, no?
 
Last edited:
Magnezone shouldn't drop. The fact that it can eliminate, weaken or take advantage of most steels makes it easier for devastating mons like Weavile to clean/break through teams more easily. Access to Teleport/Volt Switch also allows Weavile (and by nature, other destructive breakers) to come in for free. The synergy is perfect with some of the top mons in the tier at the moment, so it's fine where it is imo.

I'd also take the descriptions for the ranks with a grain of salt. In general, a mon's placement is its viability relative to the other mons in the tier based mostly on effectiveness. Being easy to slot into teams is one factor; but being able to supplement some of the most dangerous breakers in the tier like Magnezone does mean it deserves a high ranking as well, especially since people are arguing for some of its best partners (Weavile, Garchomp) to move up to S.
 
Last edited:

Finchinator

You’re so golden
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderatoris a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis the defending BW Circuit Champion
OU & NU Leader
Magnezone is closer to A than B or B+, but I am content with A- currently. It can trap through a variety of methods and serves as a niche defensive presence in a metagame filled with Hail as well. Obviously Magnezone is walled by a handful of things no matter what, but it can get out of hand in a hurry with timely Iron Defenses and Toxic or Flash Cannon can allow for it to salvage some less ideal match-ups.

Trapping Steel types continues to be practical and abusable, so Magnezone is not going anywhere anytime soon Imo.
 

Finchinator

You’re so golden
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderatoris a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis the defending BW Circuit Champion
OU & NU Leader
Rises
  • :Weavile: from A+ to S-: In a post-Pursuit in competitive Pokemon, pre-Finchinator's second pursuit of power hunger on a competitive Pokemon website world, Weavile ascended to stardom in the SS OU metagame. A Pokemon that's niche in every prior generation of OU was synonymous with Pursuit trapping is now revered for a unique dual STAB coupled with impressive speed. With Knock Off being more practical than ever with the lack of Mega Stones and Z-Crystals, Weavile is able to make the most of each-and-every entry, which it now finds itself getting more of than ever before with the prominence of Heavy-Duty-Boots and Defog support. Given this and a surprisingly handy defensive niche -- resisting Shadow Ball from Dragapult, Weavile has found itself one of the most common and consistent offensive presences in the tier. While everyone has had their heart broken by an errantly aimed Triple Axel, Weavile usage is far more likely to pay massive dividends than to leave you in a massive deficit if wielded properly. As Weavile approaches staple status bulky offensive teams in SS OU, it has continued to skyrocket up the viability rankings to S-, which leaves it in particularly impressive company. Of course, Weavile is not as sustainable as OU titans such as Heatran and Landorus-Therian, but it would be foolish to ignore how potent the Swords Dance variants are with Ice Shard priority, strong STAB Knock Off, and complimentary options such as Icicle Crash, Triple Axel, and Low Kick. Choice Band Weavile is also a viable breaker, but it faces limitations and prediction reliance. While the metagame has adapted with the uptick in Tapu Fini and Urshifu-Rapid, neither is durable enough to outlast a Weavile user who picks their spots well, making Weavile perhaps the most potent late-game option in the tier to further solidify its placement in S-.
  • :Tapu Fini: from A to A+: Tapu Fini's evolution from being dubbed the "forgotten one" among potent company such as Tapu Lele, Tapu Koko, and even Tapu Bulu to being perhaps the best of the four is a reactionary tale. In a metagame that finds teambuilders strapped to cover the abundance of overwhelming offensive presences it contains, role compression has found itself at the forefront of many discussions. Enter Tapu Fini -- one of the few Pokemon that is able to serve an offensive role while also checking-off multiple challenging items on the teambuilding checklist defensively. Weavile, Urshifu-Rapid, and Heatran are all handled reliably by a healthy Tapu Fini, which alone is thoroughly impressive. Couple this from the fact that Tapu Fini is able to dissuade status spread, Dragon type attacks, and some slightly less common, but still noteworthy, threats such as Buzzwole and Crawdaunt and you can quickly see why Tapu Fini has become one of the most practical additions to teams in the metagame. With an impressive set mix that allows Tapu Fini to be a revenge killer via Choice Scarf, sweeper via Calm Mind, or trapper via Whirlpool all on a regular basis, Tapu Fini has successfully integrated itself into the SS OU metagame through both defensive niche and natural characteristics that lend itself well to team construction. Tapu Fini's quick ascent past one-time staples such as Slowbro and Slowking may last if Weavile and Urshifu-Rapid stay prevelant, too, which leads our metagame to a novel position with many strong options among defensively oriented Water types.
  • :Slowking-Galar: from A to A+: Remember when Slowbro was approaching A+? How about when Slowking hit A-? Or when Teleport was the craziest, metagame-warping move in the tier? Me too. Now forget all of this because we have a new king and he is absolutely awesome. Slowking-Galar is a fantastic specially defensive pivot that is able to avoid being passive due to Future Sight and Sludge Bomb being the single most infuriating moves to switch-in to for any non-Steel type You can even cover the pesky Steel types with options such as Earthquake, Flamethrower, or even Scald getting a burn if you are really feeling yourself on any given day. There being no Pursuit in the game allows for free entry and exit, which means massive regeneration can occur, meaning any Slowking-Galar can go from 0 to the hero really quick against your foes special attackers. Slowking-Galar has quickly become a top option on bulky-offense and even balance teams once more due to these characteristics, soaking up Toxic Spikes, and synergizing well with potent physical attackers that love a Future Sight looming overhead.
  • :Tornadus-Therian: from A to A+: Tornadus-Therian might as well be labeled the late riser Pokemon at this point. In generation six, it was unremarkable for a long stretch, spanning across the majority of its time in the metagame despite being banned during generation five, but eventually the rise of the AV variant, which is still superb, and mixed Life Orb sets, which have since fallen out of favor, made it one of the best Pokemon in the tier. In generation seven, it was barely hanging on to its OU status after a stretch of mediocrity, but then people began using the Rocky Helmet Defog set and even the Z-Hurricane offensive set, which both shot it up the viability rankings to prominence as a top-tier option. With the addition of Heavy-Duty-Boots to the game and Nasty Plot to its arsenal, it was just a matter of time for Tornadus-Therian. Initially, people believed Nasty Plot variants would be broken, claiming it should be included among initial quick-bans. However, much like prior generations, Tornadus-Therian turned out to be underwhelming at first, failing to live up to this hype. It was still a good option, even cracking the A ranks, but it was not a defining Pokemon or particularly close. As 2020 turned into 2021 and the weeks of a young metagame grew into the months of an evolving metagame, Tornadus-T found its way to rise to the top like it always has done. With the less reliable Nasty Plot sets falling slightly out of favor, but still seeing some usage, the utility sets truly led to this rise. Options like Defog, Taunt, Toxic, Heat Wave, and even Icy wind seeing usage alongside staples such as Knock Off and U-turn, which gives Tornadus-T a lot of flexibility for a fast pivot that fits on to both bulky-offense and balance. While Hurricane may still be the cause of much heartache, some people are even electing to drop this in order to be more reliable, citing alternative means of revenge killing Urshifu-Rapid such as Tapu Fini and Dragapult while relying on Heat Wave to catch pesky Grasses like Kartana and Rillaboom. Given Tornadus-T's versatility, speed, and defensive profile, it should be no surprise to see it steadily rising yet again, now landing in the A+ subrank.
  • :Tapu Koko: from A to A+: I called Tapu Fini the best of the four Tapus and yet Tapu Koko is rising to A+, too? Unacceptable, we cannot give it the same justice here in order to protest this atrocity, of course. To sum it up, Tapu Koko is a top tier pivot, generating momentum without fail and becoming a threat as Ground types get worn out. It is also capable of sweeping unprepared teams with a rare, but situationally potent, Calm Mind set or supporting teams with dual screens. Tapu Koko has gained more favor than Zeraora recently due to access to Roost for more longevity vs Water types and Tornadus-Therian coupled with access to U-turn, which has also helped it rise up to A+ for the time being.
  • :Magnezone: from A- to A: You guys know that meme where the kid is asking the mom for something and the mom exclaims that they have it at home, but it is actually a much less desirable alternative that they truly have at home? Like this, yea? You know what I mean, right? God, becoming a boomer and trying to describe memes to a bunch of zoomers is quite the task. ANYWAY, imagine that meme with Hidden Power being what post-release Magnezone wants and Body Press being what it gets. People were not having it and Magnezone was not functioning as the anti-Steel force it once was. Skip ahead a couple of metagame cycles, and we finally are at a point where people have fully embraced Magnezone's new trapping mechanism with Iron Defense + Body Press, which has also given it a sneaky ability to win games outright against physically oriented offensive teams as well if you pick your spots well. This aside, Magnezone's new exploits have made it as versatile and abusable as we have seen it this generation. And with Ferrothorn being sneaky good while Corviknight and Skarmory continue to have effective places in the tier, it should be no shock to see Magnezone approaching their levels as well. There are a lot of ways Magnezone can be used: Choice Scarf, Choice Specs, Leftovers, Expert Belt, Chople Berry, and even Air Balloon or Rocky Helmet have seen usage. At the end of the day, you can fit the right Magnezone to your trapping needs and make it work on a whole slew of different archetypes, which is more than enough for it to warrant A rank considerations.
  • :Ninetales-Alola: & :Arctozolt: from C+ to A: In what may be the biggest riser of the entire generation, if not ever, we have a pair that any SS OU player has grown eerily familiar with lately. Ninetales-Alola is the summoner of Hail, a weather which has grown on everyone with time after being dubbed the worst of the weathers for many years prior, and table-setter for offensive teams with Aurora Veil and potentially Hypnosis or Encore. Standalone, Ninetales-Alola is a pitiful Pokemon that would struggle to even survive in lower tiers, but with these assets and their supportive value, Ninetales-Alola has found itself at the center of the most trendy archetype in the flagship metagame. Ninetales-Alola's partner in crime is a...PU Pokemon? :blobastonished: Is Finch trying to troll us again? Has Finch ever even done that to begin with enough to warrant saying "again"? Will these questions distract you from the fact that we're talking about a PU Pokemon? No, ok I guess not, fair. So Arctozolt has BoltBeam STABs, including Bolt Beak that is almost certain to be boosted when it is Hailing thanks to Slush Rush. Make more sense? Ok, thought so. While Arctozolt is possible to check, it is not something teams have a ton of natural durability for and when unprepaed, which the entire metagame was, Arctozolt under Hail is an absolute menace. It is a great cleaner and breaker for offensive Hail teams, which have been surging for well over a month and show no signs of stopping anytime soon. Use these two if you do not buy into the hype and you will soon see why they are so potent. People are still behind the curve with regards to preparing for Hail, so we may see some ultimate regression in their viability as the months go by, but until then we would be foolish to place these two any lower.
  • :Scizor: from A- to A: While Kyurem was having an absolute field day, destroying the livelihood of many SS OU players and giving everyone's favorite YouTuber enough nightmares to last an entire career, some wise folk loaded up Scizor and laughed in its face regularly. Aside from this niche, the one-time king of DPP OU has once-again solidified itself as a legitimate OU option thanks to various utility options such as Defog and Knock Off being convenient to it, a slower U-turn opening the door for teammates, hyper-offensive applications through Life Orb Swords Dance variants, and a favorable match-up against many common Grass and Fairy types the tier has.
  • :Slowbro: & :Victini: B+ or A-: These two bad boys tied and I believe their place in the metagame is still evolving, so I am going to hold off on making a call and implore you guys to discuss them further yourselves. Slowbro was in the shadow of Slowking for a number of months, but with the uptick in Urshifu-Rapid and offensive Grounds, we see this evening out as Slowking-Galar cuts into the niche of Slowking as well. With this said, we still do not see a large amount of Slowbro, especially compared to prior metagames when it peaked. It is hard to say if it is truly increasing in viability much or what expectations should be, leading us to a crossroads. As for Victini, it has a number of applications that make it a devastating offensive presence with enough natural bulk to get by comfortably. With this said, there is no one true niche it has that would fit A- and it is hard to pinpoint at all because of this, which left us deadlocked.
  • :Blacephalon: from B to B+: For the long-time VR followers out there, you may recall my feud with the infamous clown, cheering each time it descended further away from legitimacy in the generation seven metagame. As time passes, we, too, evolve -- much like Pokemon and the metagames they are used in. Unfortunately, I did not evolve. I do not like Blacephalon. It looks weird, it takes too much from Stealth Rock for my boomer-self to accept using without my handy-dandy boots being slapped on, and it is more fragile than my ego when someone claims we banned King's Rock because someone beat me with it on the ladder (never happened!!!). With this said, almost everyone else voted for it to be B+ due to it having a strong dual STAB that enables Choice Specs variants to be very strong. Proceed with caution and very well-thought out support schemes, but the clown can decimate unprepared teams when execution is on-point.
  • :Pelipper: & :Barraskewda: from B- to B: OLT featured a renaissance of offensive innovation and exploits. Rain happened to be one of the archetypes of offensive weather teams that saw quite a bit of play, especially during the later cycles of the tournament. This has shown itself consistent on the ladder in the aftermath and Pelipper and Barraskewda are two of the faces of this archetype. While Pelipper is an absolute necessity and a handful of Rains can be used without Barraskewda, it is still a very common option and we do not view the difference enough to split them apart via different subranks as we feel both belong in B right now.
  • :Volcanion: from C+ to B: The Steamy One has grown in popularity as nothing really switches into it on offensive teams. With enough natural bulk to survive a vast majority of neutral attacks, options to bolster its accessibility such as Heavy-Duty-Boots, and the seemingly contradictory, yet potent, dual STAB of Water-Fire, Volcanion has been erupting onto the scene lately. The steam-shooter is able to force massive damage onto foes while also threatening to burn with its signature move, but this is far from all. Fire STAB allows it to decimate Grass types and other options help round out its presence well enough to be distinguished in this metagame. Volcanion is admittedly more of a cyclical addition to the metagame, seldom seeing usage prior to the OLT laddering phase, but it has been sustainable in recent weeks, Hail teams have utilized Volcanion as an offensive presence that has a prolonged life-span with Aurora Veil, Rain teams have abused its Water immunity to deter opposing Water types while spamming boosted Steam Eruption for instant-progress, and even other offensive teams have given Volcanion the go in the meantime. This is easily enough to warrant a sharp rise in viability and if this is sustained any further, we may even see it peak in the B+ or A- subrank moving forward.
  • :Cresselia: from C to C+: Fringe utility option and 3am ladder cheese staple Cresselia has seen a slight uptick in viability due to its place on Trick Room and its unique movepool, allowing it to Lunar Dance a teammate back to health or deter opposing options with Trick. Cresselia is never going to be a top-tier option due to its lack of offensive presence and its vulnerability to status, Trick, Knock Off, etc., but it can serve enough of a niche to be in the conversation among the best in the C ranks, especially with the uptick in Trick Room teams.
  • :Toxtricity: from C to C+: If you had to phonetically spell out how Boomburst would sound, what would it be and why? VM me responses pls and ty.
  • :Hatterene: & :Marowak-Alola: from C- to C: And those Trick Room teams pretty much always make use of these two Pokemon. The former deters hazard set-up while also setting Trick Room while the latter destroys the entire metagame when given the opportunity to outslow opponents.
  • :Porygon2: from UR to C: When the OU room was polled what animal they believe deserves more representation in the metagame, nobody responded because they were too busy arguing about a 1350 ladder game that dragged out past turn 100, which evidently is a cardinal sin. When your fearless and humble tier leader was polled, he said we needed more ducks, so here we are. Porygon2 is a great option on Trick Room as well, giving a minus priority Teleport to open the door for teammates while being a well-rounded defensive presence overall, stomaching anything Dragapult or Landorus-T could possibly have to throw at it. Porygon2 lacks much of an offensive presence or distinguished niche on other teams, but we have moved most Trick Room options to C and Porygon2 follows suit.
  • :Haxorus: from UR to C-: If you are curious about this one, ask curiosity and perhaps he will enlighten you.
These are all of the rises in this slate. I will hopefully tackle the drops tomorrow and then open up the thread to any further questions + future nominations. Thanks for your patience if you have been patient, you're lame if you have not been patient, and have a great day!
 

Ruft

is a Site Content Manageris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
OU Forum Leader

Finchinator

You’re so golden
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderatoris a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis the defending BW Circuit Champion
OU & NU Leader
Drops
  • :Dragapult: from S to S-: Not a ton changed with regards to Dragapult. It is still one of the best Pokemon, oftentimes being seen as a metagame defining presence. We believe it is more in-line with how we view the S- subrank rather than pure S, which is reserved for very specific presences that have a larger stronghold on teambuilding or staple status on certain archetypes. Do not consider this us saying Dragapult got much worse as it simply did not.
  • :Slowking: from A+ to A-: Until they provide us with a Slowqueen, we absolutely cannot live in a world where Slowking dominates the OU metagame. Thankfully the trends of the metagame upheld this notion, dissuading usage of the one-time metagame staple for a variety of reasons. For starters, Tapu Fini is a rising star, Slowbro is slowly regaining its footing, and Toxapex is Toxapex. Needless to say, that is some significant competition for Slowking. Couple this with the uptick in prominent attackers that defeat Slowking such as Weavile, Tapu Koko, Arctozolt, and Scizor and you see the root of the problem expanding. There are also smaller things such as Heatran running Toxic more due to the uptick in Volcarona and Slowking itself or the competition from Slowking-Galar and you just find a much less desirable metagame state for Slowking, unfortunately.
  • :Clefable: from A+ to A: In a world where one specially defensive pinkmon falls, it appears a second does as well. Clefable has been one of the faces of SS OU for as long as we can remember. The Dynamax days had it blowing things up left and right with impressive coverage, the DLC1 days had it Teleporting around to heal up the entire metagame, and the early DLC2 metagame had Clefable filling a wider array of roles with less individual popularity in each. At this point, none of those roles stand out enough to be top tier singlehandedly and there are a handful of Pokemon that can fit that definition, which leads to a drop in Clefable's viability relative to those Pokemon for the time being.
  • :Blissey: from A- to B+: In a world where two specially defensive pinkmons fall, it appears third does as well. While Blissey's evolution line seems to produce one noteworthy OU Pokemon every single generation, that does not necessarily mean this Pokemon will be top tier. And in Blissey's case during generation 8, it is a far cry from being top tier. While Teleport and Heavy-Duty-Boots have helped revitalize everyone's favorite Poke-mother, strong physical attackers still are Blissey's daddy. This metagame has many of them that are surging. There are a plethora of strong supportive Pokemon and specially defensive Pokemon in the tier that do not have these same struggles and are oftentimes more versatile. Given this, Blissey falls down slightly.
  • :Mew: from B+ to B: In a world where three specially defensive pinkmons fall, it appears a fourth does as well. Mew has been a more experimental presence in the metagame, briefly appearing enough to gain viability ranking traction as a utility presence and unique Spike setter. As the WCoP metagame faded into the past and the more proactive OLT metagame appeared in the forefront of our discussions, Mew's popularity faded into the past as well.
  • :Zeraora: from A+ to A: Zeraora is still a late-game warrior with impressive survivability thanks to Heavy-Duty-Boots and Volt Switch, but the ability for Zeraora to break is getting worse with time. Alongside the abundance of common Ground types we also find some Grass types that bode well against Zeraora. This coupled with a wider array of fast-paced competition to Zeraora thanks to the uptick in Scarf Tapu Fini, Weavile, Tapu Koko, and Tornadus-Therian makes for a tougher landscape for Zeraora.
  • :Zapdos: from A- to B+: Zapdos has struggled to differentiate itself from other Flying type Defog users such as Tornadus-Therian, Landorus-Therian, and Corviknight recently. While abilities like Pressure and Static are enticing, Zapdos can generate momentum, and there is a unique offensive coverage mix present within Zapdos's movepool, there is still not enough to justify using it consistently, making it more niche than mainstream and not quite good enough for the A ranks.
  • :Mandibuzz: from B+ to B-: If the Zapdos news was not enough, then this should make it abundantly clear: the bird is not the word, sorry to inform everyone. Mandibuzz's relative passivity and drastically reduced defensive presence post-Knock Off has diminished its viability greatly. Checking Dragapult is really the only trendy thing that favors Mandibuzz. Aside from this, it is a struggle for Mandibuzz to get in safely against common offensive threats, let alone be much of a durable wall or utility presence. Until this changes and Mandibuzz works towards a return to prior form, it will remain lower.
  • :Moltres: from C+ to C-: Ok, fine -- you got me. This is an anti-bird post. Moltres is also going to dip down a few subranks, falling down to C- after being pretty absent recently. Some more distant showings with Substitute variants allows for it to cling on to any ranking whatsoever, but that is about the only thing Moltres has going for it in a tier that largely beats it down offensively.
  • :Dragonite: from A to A-: One last bird being knocked down a subrank. This one dances far moreso than it flies and identifies as a Dragon in most circles, but do not let that fool you. Dragonite is a bird, and it has gotten marginally worse in SS OU. More people are cognizant of it's offensive presence, preparing for DD sets or simply being able to pick them off with things like priority Ice Shard or Scarf Tapu Fini Moonblast. Dragonite's sweeping potential is diminished, leading to a slight drop off for the time being.
  • :Volcarona: from A to A-: I'll be honest in saying I disagree with this. Yes, there is more Heatran and that can hold back Volcarona throughout an entire game, but Volcarona is still such a polarizing and potentially devastating sweeper. It is remarkably inconsistent, which is likely why it ultimately was voted to drop here.
  • :Bisharp: from A- to B+: With more and more fast Dark resists popping up, it's a rough time for Bisharp as a sweeper or even as a standalone breaker. The Swords Dance variant still has plenty of viability, but it is limited to a kill at a time in many match-ups. Choice Banded sets have gone extinct, too, which certainly does not help.
  • :Dracozolt: from B+ to B: It turns out Hail becoming the dominant weather leaves less room for Sand teams, which means less room for Dracozolt. The uptick in specially defensive Landorus-Therian also has not helped matters here.
  • :Amoonguss: from C+ to C: A Pokemon that handles Tapu Fini, Urshifu-Rapid, Tapu Koko, Zeraora, Clefable, Rillaboom, and Tapu Bulu is hardly usable due to its lack of non-Spore utility, abysmal offensive presence, and enabling of every other offensive presence under the sun. Perhaps best to leave the shrooms at home...or not :pimp:
  • :Obstagoon:, :Salazzle:, & :Incineroar: to UR: There is no legitimate claim to use these Pokemon at a high level in the SS OU metagame. Obstagoon is a strong offensive presence with a status and Ghost immunity, but it does not differentiate itself enough offensively or provide anything else defensively while only having a middling speed stat. You simply cannot justify integrating it onto your teams right now. Salazzle is perhaps the closest of the three to staying ranked as it has a very unique presence, but even that cannot salvage it for now due to its pitiful bulk and inability to break promptly. Finally, Incineroar was a niche Pokemon to begin with, but with other Shadow Ball checks circulating throughout the tier and it lacking recovery, it is an even harder sell now.
These are the drops! As I alluded to before, feel free to post any questions over the next day or two and I will try to get to them this weekend. This thread is also now open to future nominations as per normal, so enjoy!
 
I’m surprised tyranitar didn’t drop with the declining popularity of defoggers it beats and dragapult, it doesn’t seem that good to stay in B+ personally. What was the reason for not dropping it?

Outside of that I’m suprised more of the C rank stuff like weezing-galar and celesteela haven’t been UR yet, haven’t really seen anyone defend them in the thread despite being nominated to be UR
 
I’m surprised tyranitar didn’t drop with the declining popularity of defoggers it beats and dragapult, it doesn’t seem that good to stay in B+ personally. What was the reason for not dropping it?

Outside of that I’m suprised more of the C rank stuff like weezing-galar and celesteela haven’t been UR yet, haven’t really seen anyone defend them in the thread despite being nominated to be UR
Honestly, Steela can still be quite potent with an offensive variant. defensive variants suck and you shouldnt use Defensive Steela.
 

Finchinator

You’re so golden
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderatoris a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis the defending BW Circuit Champion
OU & NU Leader
I feel like Slowking is a lot worse than A-, it's really fell off
Any reasons for it not dropping more?
A drop from A+ to below A- alone is a big dip, but Slowking falling off has been gradual and it still very much exists in the tier, seeing decent usage and having a large niche. Ranking it much lower would simply not be in-line with its place in the metagame.
What prompted the Toxtricity rise? It’s been a minute since I’ve seen it in action, was honestly expecting a drop if anything

also bulu was ROBBED :blobtriumph:
People used a decent amount of it on the OLT ladder, citing the Specs set being challenging to switch in to. It is a marginal increase and may go right back the next time around, but we will honor its increase in usefulness until then.
I’m surprised tyranitar didn’t drop with the declining popularity of defoggers it beats and dragapult, it doesn’t seem that good to stay in B+ personally. What was the reason for not dropping it?

Outside of that I’m suprised more of the C rank stuff like weezing-galar and celesteela haven’t been UR yet, haven’t really seen anyone defend them in the thread despite being nominated to be UR
It's far more Choice Band Tyranitar than it is the Stealth Rock variants, which could be the cause for your concern.

Those Pokemon are likely to be evaluated next time, so stay tuned.
 

ausma

what it be what it do
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Social Media Contributoris an Artistis a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
OU Forum Leader
Instead of 3 mons in S-, why don't we have then in S and put Lando-T in S+?

Great VR updates otherwise
S+ is a very, very rare ranking to give a Pokemon that reflects a necessity of said Pokemon for teams to be viable; in other words, extreme centralization. We see this in Primal Groudon's presence in Gen 6/7 Ubers, and hell we had this even this gen, with Pre-DLC Clefable. S is a stronger indicator of its infamous, incredible versatility but also demonstrates that it is not necessarily needed on every viable team.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 2, Guests: 5)

Top