Resource SS OU DLC2 Viability Ranking Thread [See Post #1517 on Page 61]

I've seen some replies to the Pert post and yes I may have overreacted a bit as Pert isn't that doodoo but yeah B- is about right. It is a bit annoying to kill sometimes and slow pivoting is great, however a lot of what I said in the post still stands. I'm also aware that we cant just drop it but its still funny that its OU.
honestly as far as the pert discussion goes people have literally been nomming it down repeatedly for the entirety of the DLC2 meta but there’s a reason it’s never dropped- literally nothing has changed for pert as far as the role it serves in the tier goes so B remains appropriate. It’s done the same thing it’s always done to the same degree of effectiveness since October. Compare it to something like Moltres (no, I’m not saying it’s competing with moltres or anything like that lol, just hear me out) where Molt’s traits have become less valuable or relevant as the meta has evolved- Molt was good for beating Pheromosa, Genesect, Heatran, etc but two of them were banned and better Heatran counterplay was used instead. Things changed for Molt and it lost relevancy. Pert has always done exactly what it still does just as well so therefore nothing has happened to make it worse. Even trends like the rises of SpD Hippo and SpD Lando and even SpD Gastro that supposedly compete with pert aren’t necessarily changes for what pert fulfills because they don’t fit better than pert on the teams that pert best fits on (ie gterrain offenses). tldr pert is still same old pert and b or b- is fine.
 
honestly as far as the pert discussion goes people have literally been nomming it down repeatedly for the entirety of the DLC2 meta but there’s a reason it’s never dropped- literally nothing has changed for pert as far as the role it serves in the tier goes so B remains appropriate. It’s done the same thing it’s always done to the same degree of effectiveness since October. Compare it to something like Moltres (no, I’m not saying it’s competing with moltres or anything like that lol, just hear me out) where Molt’s traits have become less valuable or relevant as the meta has evolved- Molt was good for beating Pheromosa, Genesect, Heatran, etc but two of them were banned and better Heatran counterplay was used instead. Things changed for Molt and it lost relevancy. Pert has always done exactly what it still does just as well so therefore nothing has happened to make it worse. Even trends like the rises of SpD Hippo and SpD Lando and even SpD Gastro that supposedly compete with pert aren’t necessarily changes for what pert fulfills because they don’t fit better than pert on the teams that pert best fits on (ie gterrain offenses). tldr pert is still same old pert and b or b- is fine.
This is fair.
 

Finchinator

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Instead of 3 mons in S-, why don't we have then in S and put Lando-T in S+?

Great VR updates otherwise
As ausma stated, S+ is reserved for special cases where a Pokemon is almost irreplaceable on teams. We are nowhere near there with Landorus-T currently.
I'm starting to get the feeling that Charizard remaining in the vr is just meant to troll us since Heatran and Victini can do its sun breaker job much more lethally and they don't have that big of a weakness of choosing between survivability and damage
Nah, on Sun if you pair Charizard with Earth Power Venusaur or Final Gambit Victini, it actually is impossible to contain. Obviously this is limited and it is more fringe, but C- is likely fine.

This is one of the more amusing vr updates for me. I love how the explanations aren't hardcore serious and includes a bit of fun in it. Although I'm still surprised that Clefable of all things actually dropped lmao. I got a couple questions tho
I try to integrate some humor and memes for the sake of reader enjoyment and retaining my own interest as I craft the posts, so I am glad some people take note of this.

Was Nidoking talked about? What niche does it have that it still shares the same rank as Blacephalon or Victini? Also, don't take this the wrong way and no offense, but shouldn't Haxorus' explanation be written so that it is easily accessible?
Nidoking was voted to stay the same for the time being, if I recall correctly. The Pokemon honestly has not been used too much lately, but it was strong for a while and can still destroy some cores, especially with the downtick in Slowking usage. I think we will continue to monitor this in the coming weeks.

I have no commentary on Haxorus, I have not used it, and I have no interest in going out of my way to use it for the sake of a single nomination. Others on the VR council wanted it ranked and it gained enough support, so having me comment on it much does not make sense. If I had to speculate, SD, Scale Shot, CC, and other coverage/DD as intriguing options with a lot of nice resists as a Dragon type and insanely high base attack allow for it to carry some weight on HO. Nothing more or less to it.
What does Latias do to warrant a C+ rank? Is it because of Healing Wish or bulkier sets to set it apart from other Dragons? Same goes for Glowbro & Geezing, I have no idea what their niches are at this point.
Weakness Policy Calm Mind + Aura Sphere + Stored Power sets are the main draw, but HWish variants are viable, too. Glowbro has the cheesy NP sets with Quick Draw. G-Weezing has a few things it can do that nothing else can do thanks to abilities, but I agree it is getting too fringe to justify keeping ranked and we will look into it again.
I am very curious on the rationale behind Volcarona coming down.

particularly curious because bulky variants are very very dominant against trendy hail teams.

This is in addition to Volcarona being a dominant wincon in any game that doesn’t have heatran.

The rain matchup and the heatran match up is poor, however if that’s very important, there are partners that can lure and weaken heatran (like lele) that synergise with volcarona!
Killing Heatran is much harder than chipping it and it pretty much has to be out of the picture, which is a big thing. I personally still voted for A, but we are also seeing a lot of CB Aqua Jet from Urshifu-R, Trick usage, Rain, and Dragonite, so I get it. I think it is between the two tiers mostly and could bounce back up, but your point about Hail is not totally true as some of them have SD Garchomp with veil and others have Volcanion as a breaker or Urshifu-R with CB Aqua Jet as an RK user. It really depends on what the full hail team is as they have varied a ton on the ladder recently.
Questions 8/27

1. Why didn’t Melmetal rise? OP Pokemon comparable to Heatran. Saw a lot of usage in OLT. Corviknight cant be considered a check because thunder wave thunder punch.
It is absolutely not better than Heatran and it sees much less than usage than Heatran, too. It did see an uptick in usage during OLT, but that does not suddenly bridge the entire game. This was pretty much universal among the council.

2. Why didn’t Kartana rise? Dangerous breaker. Hard to check. Comparable to Weavile and Urshifu-R.
I do not think anyone else thinks Kartana is on par with Weavile or even Urshifu-R. It is dangerous for sure, but every possible RKer matches up favorably with it and Buzzwole, Corviknight, Zapdos, Volcarona, etc. can play a role in either countering it or getting in revenge killers comfortably. Nobody believed Kartana was A+ or S- level.

3. Why didn’t Garchomp drop? Cant beat electric types like Tapu Koko. Easy to wear down with hazard chip. Sweep chomp has been adapted to with toxic Landorus-T and stuff. It also has annoying matchups against things it’s suppose to check like Heatran who takes advantage of protect/rest being the only recovery. Many mons that hate rough skin chip just kill it anyway like Urshifu -R.
Garchomp handles Zeraora pretty well and Tapu Koko is not a Volt Switch spammer usually, so it does not really need to tackle that in the same capacity. Landorus-T is a Pokemon many teams focus on limiting and honestly a lot of cores have things like Zeraora that are able to Knock Off Landorus-T and Garchomp, for example. It is not easy from turn 1, but over time it becomes very possible. Garchomp offers an offensive presence that is consistent and unique while also being capable defensively and fast. It absolutely qualifies for A+ and we even had some people nominate it for S-.
 
It’s been a while since I posted on this thread so I wanna share my noms.

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S- > S
I’m aware that it just rose to S- but honestly in terms of splashability its close to the level if not on par with Lando. Its not a versatile pivot with offensive/defensive utility, but it compresses several roles that makes adding Weavile to your team not much of a problem. Speed control, Knock spam, Wincon. As Finch said, the meta has developed to counteract it but they either fall to Zone (Corv, Skarm, Ferro), lose to FS (Pex, Buzzwole), or can’t check it in the long run (Rapid Strike, Fini). The addition of Boots, Pult, and a plethora of new pivots have established Weavile as a Top 5, Top 3 mon.

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B+ > A-
Bulu is on par with Rilla. It trades Knock, priority, and U-Turn for better coverage and stability. Band/SD is dummy hard to switch into safely especially with Mag support. The combination of Grass/Fighting/Rock is insane. The added Fairy typing makes it better at checking Urshifu RS and Chomp. The neutrality to U-Turn lets it survive longer compared to Rilla.

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B > B-
The longer the meta goes on, the worse Drill gets. It went from one of the most defining mons in the meta to being outclassed, not being able to do much in a game, and being a poor choice overall. Sand isn’t in the best state rn with hail rising heavily and SpD Lando popping up more which has the side effect of hindering Zolt. Even if Corv is removed from the equation you still have Buzzwole, Rilla, Skarm, Washtom, and Chomp to consider. Too frail to be a defensive steel, too easy to check to be a wincon, it can be hazard removal or set hazards itself but there are better options that provide more utility.

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B > B+
While it lacks role compression compared to other bulky grounds/waters, it provides teams a check to Pult, Shifu, Koko, Glowking, Volc, Freeze Dry-less Arcto, and Tran. If it has Clear Smog it can check more things like non-Giga Drain Volc, Fini, and CM Clef. Even though its not preferable, Sticky Hold Gastro can even act as a deterrent vs Trick and Knock. The meta has leaned more towards SpD with how infamous Pult/Tran are to check, and Gastro can check both of them and more. Blace, Washtom, Victini, and Volcanion gaining popularity is even more beneficial to this lovable slug.

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B > B+
Other than Blissey and Slowking, what’s switching into this? Due to the how lackluster of a counter to Rapid Strike Shifu is and the presence of Pult, Weavile, and Kyurem, most teams have swapped to Glowking for its higher offensive capabilities while checking most of Slowking’s targets. Blissey despite it having Teleport, ends up being a momentum sink that gets Knock’d, then slowly pressured and U-Turn bait. Boots has enabled it to be able to come in more consistently and break which previously wasn’t possible without heavy support before. Even if Volc guesses wrong, Volc still forces progress from its raw 130 SpA and Steam Eruption’s burn chance. Thanks to its typing and Water Absorb it can even provide teams with a breaker that can also deal with Fini. Its 80/120/90 bulk lets it tank one or two hits and fire back.

D93F139D-2820-4BC9-A8CB-4504BD437A97.png
C+ > B-
Heattom isn’t great but its better than most of the trash in C+ like Shitcune. It has a similar niche to Washtom but with better insurance vs hail which has become the best weather in SS OU. Fire stab lets it threaten the vast Grass types that aren’t threatened by Washtom.

106163CA-AEBC-42AE-BA11-41D7F85D518E.png
C > UR
Relies on RNG and slow teams to function well but it doesn’t even do well as a stallbreaker. Its near impossible to find a SS OU balance team without speed control of a regen mon like Glowking. There are better breakers and there are better fairies, and flying types that can accomplish what Toge does but better.

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C- > UR
It has to choose between safety googles, and boots. If it chooses boots its getting clapped by hail or Hippo. If it chooses googles it gets clapped by hazards. Keeping rocks off is difficult for stall since either your defogger gets trapped by zone or gets worn down by rocks after its gets boots knocked. It hard counters some key threats (Lele, Shifu, Fini, FS), but with how difficult it is for stall to thrive in this gen, and its still difficult for Shed to thrive in the tier.
 
USELESS TRIVIA INCOMING

There are currently 4 ice types from the S to A- ranks. This number is actually only surpassed by dragon (5), flying (5) and steel (8). Reminder that all five members of the dragon type squad have a minimum of 600 BST whereas 3 out of the five flying types r legends/pseudo legends. (Fun fact: if we dont take account of the A- rank, its only second to steel)

This is pretty much unprecedented across the generations.
turns out, ice is a pretty good offensive typing when they don't need to deal with losing 25% of their health each time they come in.

that obviously isn't the only factor in why ice types are so much better now (weavile getting triple axel and kyurem getting freeze dry are big factors as well) but it's definitely a big one.
 
View attachment 368095 C > UR
Relies on RNG and slow teams to function well but it doesn’t even do well as a stallbreaker. Its near impossible to find a SS OU balance team without speed control of a regen mon like Glowking. There are better breakers and there are better fairies, and flying types that can accomplish what Toge does but better.

View attachment 368097 C- > UR
It has to choose between safety googles, and boots. If it chooses boots its getting clapped by hail or Hippo. If it chooses googles it gets clapped by hazards. Keeping rocks off is difficult for stall since either your defogger gets trapped by zone or gets worn down by rocks after its gets boots knocked. It hard counters some key threats (Lele, Shifu, Fini, FS), but with how difficult it is for stall to thrive in this gen, and its still difficult for Shed to thrive in the tier.
1) togekiss is still niche, as it can stallbreak with heal bell + NP and insta win sometimes against teams. It can also provide as a pokemon that can take advantage of stuff such as slowking, slowbro, slowking-g, skarmory, mandibuzz, SD + synthesis kart. In general it can take advanteg of passive pokemon via heal bell, NP and air slash and bypass them this way, it definitely has a very small niche.

2) shedinja can counter very specific pokemon, such as kyurem, non-flamethrower clef which stall struggles against from my experience, stall can support shedinja by running something like double defog, its very specific, needs a lot of support, but still finds a niche on those teams
 
It’s been a while since I posted on this thread so I wanna share my noms.
View attachment 368092 C+ > B-
Heattom isn’t great but its better than most of the trash in C+ like Shitcune. It has a similar niche to Washtom but with better insurance vs hail which has become the best weather in SS OU. Fire stab lets it threaten the vast Grass types that aren’t threatened by Washtom.

View attachment 368095 C > UR
Relies on RNG and slow teams to function well but it doesn’t even do well as a stallbreaker. Its near impossible to find a SS OU balance team without speed control of a regen mon like Glowking. There are better breakers and there are better fairies, and flying types that can accomplish what Toge does but better.

View attachment 368097 C- > UR
It has to choose between safety googles, and boots. If it chooses boots its getting clapped by hail or Hippo. If it chooses googles it gets clapped by hazards. Keeping rocks off is difficult for stall since either your defogger gets trapped by zone or gets worn down by rocks after its gets boots knocked. It hard counters some key threats (Lele, Shifu, Fini, FS), but with how difficult it is for stall to thrive in this gen, and its still difficult for Shed to thrive in the tier.
i dont really care about most of these noms but these 3 are just bad

Heattom is a horrible hail check because its constantly chipped due to being forced to run boots and gets beat by arctozolt via substitute baiting out an overheat and removing its ability to take it out. It should absolutely not rise on the basis of its hail MU, and its other traits are incredibly unspectacular. It doesn't really work similarly to washtom either because its rocks weakness+proneness to switching into pokemon with knock is crippling.

Togekiss is still a decent option for some HOs due to its sheer bulk. Max HP Max Speed is near impossible to revenge kill without fairly substantial chip and it has a lot of freedom to pivot in and out due to its defensive typing providing many useful resists and immunities. flinchgod aint UR bad lol.

shedinja is like the most consistent anti FS+breaker measure stall has in this tier, and its a great check to sub kyu alongside like a bliss. hard as hell Lele counter too. It doesn't really have to choose between safety googles or boots, you just accept losing to rare shit like sand Lele (which you can still prep for with other members of your team). the rest is just nonsense really. Stall isn't great but to deny the validity of one of its better niche mons (especially after its seen some olt play) is wack :psywoke:
 
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C- > UR
It has to choose between safety googles, and boots. If it chooses boots its getting clapped by hail or Hippo. If it chooses googles it gets clapped by hazards. Keeping rocks off is difficult for stall since either your defogger gets trapped by zone or gets worn down by rocks after its gets boots knocked. It hard counters some key threats (Lele, Shifu, Fini, FS), but with how difficult it is for stall to thrive in this gen, and its still difficult for Shed to thrive in the tier.
Agree with most of these nominations but not sure how I feel about
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dropping. While by no means a staple of the OverUsed metagame, Shedinja finds a niche as a defining member of Stall. The reason this isn't held to a high regard is how lackluster stall as an archetype is, compared to and against the overall metagame as a whole. However, it finds value on these stalls, as it can pivot into various attacks thanks to Wonder Guard, and stall teams can afford the heavy hazard removal it requires to be effective. Heavy-Duty-Boots are the much, much better item on it by the way, since you will much more often than not find a hazard immunity more valuable than an immunity to sleep/weather chip. In fact, Boots make Shedinja markedly better, since heavy hazard removal is much more easy to fit than a Magic Bounce pokemon. In fact, Shedinja might deserve a slight rise, alongside its stall buddy
Quagsire. While Magnezone and Knock Off are commonplace, they have counterplay, as Magnezonedoes nat have reliable recoveryin order to prevent eventually getting worn down, and Corviknight, the primary Defog pokemon on stall teams, doesn't particularly mind Stealth Rock.
 
Greats VR updates this time around ! Glad that stuff like Weavile, Fini, Scizor, Torn rose, while Slowking dropped deservedly. Also, it's good that stuff like Zeraora didnt drop too excessively and Garchomp didn't drop at all (even though they are some of the best wincons, who additionally are great cleaners and breakers respectively). Surprise was that Zone rose and Clef dropped, but the explanations made sense to me. Hail, however, felt like a bit of overreaction (IMO should have been B+ or A- at max, but let's see how it pans out by the time next VR updates happen)

Now that we are done with the long-due VR updates, lets talk about a mon that I nom for the next slate

:Rotom-Wash: from B+ -> A-

I have been trying out Rotom-W recently, and I have decided to name it as "the momentum machine". Rotom-W makes progress in almost any situation (except for facing something like Storm Drain Gastrodon). It is a great pivot that whose Volt Switches are very difficult to stop because it is an Electric mon that ground types are scared of switching into. Even if they switch in to stop the turn, they fear getting hit by Hydro Pump or Wisp in the next turn. This makes Rotom-W a difficult mon to switch into, not only for grounds but for many of its checks - Grasses like Bulu and Ferrothon, as well as defensive Seismitoad fear Wisp; Specs Pult fears the rarer, but certainly useful, Thunder Wave. It can also slot in defog, and is good at it since it beats setters like Heatran, Lando-T, Skarmory etc.. It also has recovery in Pain Split.

Rotom-W has an incredible defensive typing alongside Levitate, and decent stats which lets it check/counter plethora of top-tier threats like Lando-T, Heatran, Weavile, Garchomp, Corviknight, Tornadus-T, Toxapex, Scizor, Dragonite, Hippo, Skarmory, Slowking etc.. It is also a good rain check, additionally providing it another valuable defensive property.

It forms VoltTurn cores easily with its old partners in crime like Lando-T, Scizor, Tornadus-T, Victini etc.. as well as with some newer partners like Rillaboom, Corviknight, Dragapult etc.. It can also support breakers like Kyurem by spreading status and bringing them in safely for wallbreaking opportunities. All these above factors make me argue for a rise in its viability.

While it does so much for a team, it can get overwhelmed quickly between chip damage, Toxic vulnerability, average speed, Stealth Rock and unreliability of Pain Spilt. This means that it cannot do all the things its supposed to do in a single match, which is why it doesn't need to rise higher than A- for now.
 
368097[/ATTACH] C- > UR
It has to choose between safety googles, and boots. If it chooses boots its getting clapped by hail or Hippo. If it chooses googles it gets clapped by hazards. Keeping rocks off is difficult for stall since either your defogger gets trapped by zone or gets worn down by rocks after its gets boots knocked. It hard counters some key threats (Lele, Shifu, Fini, FS), but with how difficult it is for stall to thrive in this gen, and its still difficult for Shed to thrive in the tier.
I disagree with this nomination because Shedinja stall is one of the most consistent and effective stall archetypes.

Stall is often considered to be a horrible playstyle because of the variety of things that it is weak to, however some stalls like Shedinja stall, Kyurem stall, Koko stall, and specific hazard stacks stand out. Shedinja allows an immediate counter to some of the most dangerous stall threats including Melmetal, Urshifu-R + future sight, Tapu Lele, Kyurem, Tapu Koko, and whirlpool Fini. In addition to this, Shedinja stall also remains viable to the rest of the metagame along with common partners like Toxapex and we see examples of this in high level play. Heavy duty boots as explained doesn’t really limit Shedinja down as that allows it to switch in and out regardless of hazards. Even if your opponent has a Hippowdon, it’s only really threatening if they have mon Shedinja needs to check like Tapu Lele, which is very non existent to see. There also has been some teams with safety goggles such as the Moltres + Corv one and the Xatu one in the teambuilding lab.

Here’s some replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-574581
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1403166657
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1366404931-ezm6g8eb19ias77g7e7xe5nk9rnem3wpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1403180935-ff6pc1fhwz9way7ux1dadvv78v44w10pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1402795972-zwqem0g9jfcqwfgf1solvutrmxb2lg0pw

I’ll also nom it up a rank with this reasoning
 
VR update lets go!!!
Agree with basically everything other than the :clefable: drop and unranking :salazzle:, particularly the latter. Salazzle has a completely unique niche in ou that absolutely no other mon can replicate. It allows you to put pressure on any defensive wall that isn’t a cleric, blissey, or a magic guard/bounce mon with toxic. Considering that both :clefable: and :blissey: dropped in this slate, it seems counterintuitive to kick it off the vr at this moment when garbage like weezing-g and celesteela are still hanging on.

:zarude: to B-
God I love this thing. I decided to try it out after seeing it’s insane stat spread and it has impressed me. Most things u would think could beat it offensively (koko, weav) crumble to a +1 power whip, as they can’t ohko it. Uturn is admittedly a major barrier to getting this in, but it’s got a strong speed tier and an incredible mu against stall/balance thanks to its sig move, so it’s worth trying out for yourself.
 
i dont really care about most of these noms but these 3 are just bad

Heattom is a horrible hail check because its constantly chipped due to being forced to run boots and gets beat by arctozolt via substitute baiting out an overheat and removing its ability to take it out. It should absolutely not rise on the basis of its hail MU, and its other traits are incredibly unspectacular. It doesn't really work similarly to washtom either because its rocks weakness+proneness to switching into pokemon with knock is crippling.

Togekiss is still a decent option for some HOs due to its sheer bulk. Max HP Max Speed is near impossible to revenge kill without fairly substantial chip and it has a lot of freedom to pivot in and out due to its defensive typing providing many useful resists and immunities. flinchgod aint UR bad lol.

shedinja is like the most consistent anti FS+breaker measure stall has in this tier, and its a great check to sub kyu alongside like a bliss. hard as hell Lele counter too. It doesn't really have to choose between safety googles or boots, you just accept losing to rare shit like sand Lele (which you can still prep for with other members of your team). the rest is just nonsense really. Stall isn't great but to deny the validity of one of its better niche mons (especially after its seen some olt play) is wack :psywoke:
2/3 of these are good counter arguments, but I still stand by and say Toge isn’t rly worth having, even on the HO teams it is on. NP sets are not that hard to deal with for most current meta teams. As there are very little teams that don’t carry some form of speed control like Koko/Zera/Weavile. Along with other problematic mons that either outspeed and OHKO Toge like Kyu and Kart, or mons that don’t mind tanking some hits like Glowking/Zapdos/Melm etc. Yes if it flinches like 20 times they lose a mon but its inconsistent meaning if you miss an Air Slash or a flinch, u lose ur Toge. Even if things go well you still have to worry about the speed control on their team. The meta is too fast and too sturdy for it, there are plenty of better options on HO that are more consistent.
 
:Lycanroc-Dusk: UR -> C-

I'd like to nominate Lycanroc-D to VR at C- rank.

It is a decent wallbreaker with a wide movepool consisting of Stone Edge, Close Combat, Psychic Fangs, Fire Fang, Crunch etc.. most of which get boosted by Tough Claws. It can 2HKO Physically defensive walls like Corvinkight, Buzzwole, Toxapex etc.. with the appropriate move. It has a neat speed tier which allows it to Revenge Kill Kartana, Blacephalon, Tapu Lele, Hydreigon etc.. Against faster foes, it has a strong priority move in Accelerock that can eliminate Volcarona as well Revenge Kill Tornadus-T, a weakened Dragapult, Weavile etc..

Lycanroc-D pairs well with Physical sweepers/breakers like Garchomp, Kartana etc.. that pressure shared checks like Lando-T and Buzzwole. It also loves Stealth Rock support to beat its checks. It also loves Spikes and Future Sight support to beat Tangrowth, which is a true counter to Lycanroc.

However, Lycanroc offers 0 defensive utility due to bad defensive stats and one of the worst defensive typings. Also, it matches up poorly vs metagame staples like Lando-T, Urshifu-R etc.. This means that it can only fit on archetypes like VoltTurn and Screens HO where either it takes minimum damage or there is a way to reduce damage incurred on it.

On VoltTurn, Band Lycanroc can wallbreak really well vs Corviknight, Buzzwole etc.. On Screens HO, it could run an SD + LO set.

Hence, I feel that good wallbreaking potential, but non-existent defensive presence justifies C- rank for Lycanroc-D

Calcs vs Walls :

252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 176-208 (44 - 52%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Buzzwole: 206-244 (49.2 - 58.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (Note that Fat Buzzwole is barely run nowadays, this is just to show Lycanroc's wallbreaking prowess)

252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 180-214 (59.2 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 135-159 (40.4 - 47.6%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Lycanroc-Dusk Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 199-235 (50.5 - 59.6%) -- 84.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (again max Physical Def Clef isn't run nowadays)

-1 252 Atk Choice Band Lycanroc-Dusk Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 165-195 (43.1 - 51%) -- 54.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (Main Lando set as per Set Compendium)

252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 146-172 (36.1 - 42.5%) -- 87.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes

252 Atk Choice Band Lycanroc-Dusk Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ninetales-Alola with an ally's Aurora Veil: 288-340 (82.2 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Accelerock Calcs :

252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Accelerock vs. 248 HP / 156 Def Volcarona: 544-648 (145.8 - 173.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Accelerock vs. 248 HP / 88 Def Tornadus-Therian: 254-302 (70.3 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Accelerock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 151-178 (47.6 - 56.1%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Accelerock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 338-398 (120.2 - 141.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Accelerock vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Zeraora: 150-177 (47.3 - 55.8%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Accelerock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 135-160 (48 - 56.9%) -- 91% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Accelerock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arctozolt: 258-306 (80.3 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


 
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:Rillaboom: -> B+ or even B

This mon hasnt had any notable impact in the recent meta, teams feel like they just kind of naturally have multiple answers to it. SD can be threatening sometimes but doesnt pull off the sweeps you want it to and band is notably dead. Also simply nomming this down because I think like every mon in B+ is better than it.
 
:Rillaboom: -> B+ or even B

This mon hasnt had any notable impact in the recent meta, teams feel like they just kind of naturally have multiple answers to it. SD can be threatening sometimes but doesnt pull off the sweeps you want it to and band is notably dead. Also simply nomming this down because I think like every mon in B+ is better than it.
These are the 1825+ usage stats for August
23 | Rillaboom | 8.32509%
86 | Tapu Bulu | 0.73601%

I know usage doesn’t mean viability, but this is high ladder, and I find it fascinating how the general consensus of this thread is that tapu bulu is more viable than rillaboom. Don’t get me wrong, bulu has a place on certain teams, but rilla can pull off sweeps with proper support, which bulu is incapable of. Grassy glide gives it an amazing revenge killing/sweeping tool, as well as knock off providing strong utility. Your giving this up for... stone edge, cc, and a secondary fairy typing? Nearly all relevant stone edge targets dropped considerably last slate, and cc and a fairy typing is hardly enough to justify the lack of grassy glide+knock off. And can y’all stop pretending it beats corv 1v1, it gets ohkoed after cc def drops, which does abt 65%.
In conclusion, tapu bulu is not more viable than rillaboom, and belongs 1 rank or perhaps 2 below rilla.
 
These are the 1825+ usage stats for August
23 | Rillaboom | 8.32509%
86 | Tapu Bulu | 0.73601%

I know usage doesn’t mean viability, but this is high ladder, and I find it fascinating how the general consensus of this thread is that tapu bulu is more viable than rillaboom. Don’t get me wrong, bulu has a place on certain teams, but rilla can pull off sweeps with proper support, which bulu is incapable of. Grassy glide gives it an amazing revenge killing/sweeping tool, as well as knock off providing strong utility. Your giving this up for... stone edge, cc, and a secondary fairy typing? Nearly all relevant stone edge targets dropped considerably last slate, and cc and a fairy typing is hardly enough to justify the lack of grassy glide+knock off. And can y’all stop pretending it beats corv 1v1, it gets ohkoed after cc def drops, which does abt 65%.
In conclusion, tapu bulu is not more viable than rillaboom, and belongs 1 rank or perhaps 2 below rilla.
Idk what any of this has to do with dropping Rillaboom. Your only defence of the mon was taking what I said and reversing it, without elaborating really. "SD can be threatening sometimes but doesnt pull off the sweeps you want it to" -> "..but rilla can pull off sweeps with proper support, which bulu is incapable of." I don't see how this makes Rilla look any better, and definitely not the 8% usage above 1800s.

Also, while on the topic of Bulu, it does 1v1 majority of Corviknights in the current meta, which are Body Press + Uturn. Grassy Glide is a good revenge killing tool on paper, but with how easy Rilla is to switch into it just doesn't end up being the threat you want it to, whereas Bulu can SD on the same switch and proceed to blast through whatever mon the opponent decides to send in. The fairy typing and superior bulk come into play a lot and Bulu has the luxury of being more customizable with its items and spreads. Bulu being able to viably run SD Synthesis sets (since you said yourself, edge isnt needed) also allow it to function as breaker and check to some threats longer like Shifu, Koko, Zera, Lando and Chomp.

So yeah, "nomming this down because I think like every mon in B+ is better than it."
 
:Rillaboom: -> B+ or even B

This mon hasnt had any notable impact in the recent meta, teams feel like they just kind of naturally have multiple answers to it. SD can be threatening sometimes but doesnt pull off the sweeps you want it to and band is notably dead. Also simply nomming this down because I think like every mon in B+ is better than it.
Rillaboom @ Miracle Seed
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 24 HP / 252 Atk / 80 Def / 152 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Grassy Glide
- Knock Off
- Wood Hammer

this rillaboom set has been working well for me. wood hammer + knock is literally what it needs to destroy fatter cores with pex (even max defense gets disrespectfully sent into another dimension by +2 wood hammer), unawares and shedinja. you kinda have to use it with magnezone or some exceptional corviknight/ferrothorn lure, but slower teams are put under high pressure by rilla+zone and you still have grassy glide which is a massive tool against faster teams and only needs small chip to smash faster resists like dragapult for example. btw spread makes you able to switch into urshifu in case you need it. it lives one close combat from full and isn't 2hkod by surging strikes after rocks. speed hits 245, which sits comfortably above mons like timid zone, spdef lando, tapu fini etc.

i like using bulu more because typing, sd close combat, nature's madness and synthesis sets, but i wouldnt sleep on rillaboom at all. they are compared between each other but they are way too different in the threat they pose. you see rillaboom and immediately you have to respect the power of its priority grassy glide and keep your stuff out of range, whereas with bulu you kinda just have to outspeed it and has more weaknesses as well. also, rillaboom hits harder with wood hammer and opens itself with some early game knock offs so it can more easily break through defensive cores. rillaboom can't switch in as well as bulu, but the threat of glide is a deterrent for setup even before rillaboom hits the field. things like chomp can easily break through bulu but they will not make it past rillaboom and so do scarfers like lele.
rillaboom is stricly more offensive and has also this incredible defensive utility with one of the strongest priority moves in the game.
bulu is more suited to balance / bulky offense and can be used as a durable answer to top-tier threats while forcing progress via boosting and attacking, or chipping things down with nature's madness, toxic, leech seed, whatever.
also, i'd argue rillaboom loves the rise in popularity of magnezone more than bulu does.

i honestly believe it's better than every pokemon in B+.
A- is perfectly fine for me, i dont think it belongs in A after all.

EDIT: i forgot to mention, rillaboom can also be used on HO to snipe specific bad matchups for HO like tangrowth and buzzwole with acrobatics
 
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I wanted to take this opportunity as a chance to do some noms to some mons a think deserve it. In my opinion the VR is the most accurate it has been so far (Thanks Finchinator), but there are some mons that may have gone under the radar that I think is fair to give them a change of position.

Rises:

:tyranitar: from B+ to A- This mon is amazing right now. Its premiere set is the choice band set which have virtually 0 consistent switch ins outside of buzzwole. It provides good utility for teams being a hard check for Blacephalon and Volcarona, and a very decent check for two of the best mons in the meta in Dragapult and Heatran. But what I think is more important to this discussion is how hard Tyranitar teams can shut down hail which have become very prominent in this meta, negating veil and negating the hail for mons like Arctozolt to abuse. It doesn't matter if Tyranitar is switched first on the battlefield as Ninetales-A cannot come in into Ttar at all without risking being KO. With Stone Edge, Crunch, Assurance and Superpower there's almost nothing that can withstand a well positioned Tyranitar and can even fit stealth rock for support. The only downside being its very mediocre speed. But I feel this mon is very good and very underrated, so I think it should be A- rank.

:volcanion: from B to B+ This is another mon that people have been discovering in recent weeks. Very few pokemon can switch in a specs set without getting 2HKO, and inside rain is one of the most scary mons to face. Its great stab combination allows it to threat almost every mon in the meta game, and even threaten mons like Toxapex and Slowking-Galar with Earth Power and Tapu Fini with Sluge Wave that would usually be good checks to it. This mon can also run a highly effective trapper set with boots and Fire Spin, trapping mons like the aforemention Slowking-Galar, Toxapex and Fini and get rid of them to open space for teammates like Dragapult, Urshifu-R and Weavile that would usually struggle against those mons; and even fit Superpower to trap and kill Blissey to open for your special attackers. Paired with its great defensive typing giving it a double resist to fire and ability giving it an inmunity against water this is an all around good mon to have on your team and I would rank it B+ or higher.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1404505148-2hay9klbgo1qsjmsaj5l662co9h1mtqpw This replay is a great example of trapper Volcanion potential, trapping both Toxapex an Blissey and getting rid of them to make room for Dragapult and Urshifu to act as they please. (turn 14 and turn 19)

:darmanitan: from UR to C-/C Ok this is a weird one but hear me out. Banded Flare Blitz on sun. Yeah, I knew you would say that. But yeah Darmanitan is one of the most scary mons to face against sun teams, as very little, even resists can't switch well into a sun boosted Flare Blitz from this beast. Even without choice band this mon can perform really well or even better choice scarf acting as a sweeper. Here some calcs:

252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex in Sun: 147-173 (48.3 - 56.9%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex in Sun: 162-191 (53.2 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Even being able to outdamage the mighty Victini and its powerful V-create. This mon can perform extremely well given the right positioning, with even Life Orb being a good option to bluff a choice band set and "lock" into Flare Blitz and to then surprise Heatran with an Earthquake, plus the added bonus of being able to switch between move to make it harder to check. It's biggest downfall is that it doesn't have good survivability with rocks in play and slowly getting chipped yourself with recoil from Flare Blitz, but with its decent speed tier and damage I think this mon deserves a spot in the VR. If Haxorus can this thing for sure can.


Drops:

:scizor: from A- to B+ Players have now learned that you don't need a specific check against Kyurem to beat it, which was the primary reason for Scizor being OU in the first place. Scior is still effective being a check to Kyurem, soft check to Lele, and soft check to Rillaboom, but it doesn't bring to much outside of those and its weaknesses usually end up being a hinderance. I think is better as a choice band option in offensive teams rather than as a defensive counter play to fit against some mons, but even then it isn't as good, even when compared to some of the mons in the B+ rank, so for that reason I think this mon should drop.

:slowking: from A- to B+ This mon is still a decent special wall, but this meta totally doesn't suit Slowking. Sending out Slowking means giving a very easy switch in to mons like Dragapult, Weavile and Koko which are very common and threaten to KO, it can tank well u-turns from Urshifu, it can't tank well Freeze Drys from Kyurem. It is fighiting for the spot of tanky water or psychic mon with Toxapex and Slowking-Galar which overshadows it in most scenarios, there's isn't much reason to really use this mon outside of Future Sight support and checking Lele decently, and other mons can do those things already and give more value in other areas. It even fights its spot with Slowbro, the one I think is better than its king brother, and usage stats reflect that Slowking have certainly fallen off.

:kommo-o: from B to B- I still don't understand how this mon keeps getting away with this high of a placement when it isn't used anywhere, offensively or defensively. Defensively is lost cause being weak to so much of the meta game, and is hard using this mon offensively when Fini and other fairys and dragons are so common in this meta game. This mon is very bad and I would drop it to B- or even lower.


Some honorable mentions that I'm not to sure of:

:zapdos-galar: from B- to B Come on, this mon is one of the faces of HO and it nukes a good amount of teams with the right positioning, I think this mon is at least worthy of Swampert tier.

:mandibuzz: from B- to B It have fallen off HARD but I think it still have a place in the meta as a ghost resist and a check to Kartana, Rillaboom, Dragonite if kept healthy and some physical threats. With the right team it can do work, and I think is time to step away from defog Mandibuzz and start exploring options like Toxic or Knock Off. At least Swampert tier.

:crawdaunt: from C+ to B- This mon have fallen off but it is certainly still a scary mon to play against, with enoguh chip against some key defensive mons, crawdaunt can wreck havoc like always. Being also very prominent on trick room gives it points in viability. Also I don't think this mon is worst than Blaziken, so it should at least be B-.


To add to the discussion I think is worth keeping and eye on mons like Mamoswine, Zapdos and Nidoking, as I think this are mons that are somewhat underrated and are starting to find their places again in the metagame.

And to end this post. Is Blaziken really worthy of B-? This mon is never seen anywhere, from balance to offense I never see this mon getting play, and when I do it is usually underwhelming. I don't think is worth keeping it in there when some mons like Terrakion an even Latios seem to have better results than it. Darmanitan does a way better job as physical fire type that breaks/sweeps. It always makes difficult for me to rank mons that are around that Rank because Blaziken is so strong but so weak, and never really gets results in comparison to other mons.

:glaceon: Let me know what you think of the stuff written here and hope at least you enjoyed reading it. Ok bye :glaceon:
 
its weaknesses usually end up being a hinderance. I
Weaknesses? It has only 1

Also, it's A rank not A- rank. Plus, idk how you think Scizor is getting worse, it's quite the opposite. Scizor checks so many things like Weavile, Lele, Kyurem, Melmetal, Rilla, Kart, Hail duo etc... Plus, it has lot of role compression such as pivoting, recovery, priority, SD, Knock-off as well being able to lure Heatran and Pex with Sand Tomb for a teammate like Volcarona to sweep. A rank is well deserved
 
Also, it's A rank not A- rank. Plus, idk how you think Scizor is getting worse, it's quite the opposite. Scizor checks so many things like Weavile, Lele, Kyurem, Melmetal, Rilla, Kart, Hail duo etc... Plus, it has lot of role compression such as pivoting, recovery, priority, SD, Knock-off as well being able to lure Heatran and Pex with Sand Tomb for a teammate like Volcarona to sweep. A rank is well deserved
Fair enough. Short sighted of me not mentioning its strenghts so I guess this is fair. Anything else :^)
 
And to end this post. Is Blaziken really worthy of B-? This mon is never seen anywhere, from balance to offense I never see this mon getting play, and when I do it is usually underwhelming. I don't think is worth keeping it in there when some mons like Terrakion an even Latios seem to have better results than it. Darmanitan does a way better job as physical fire type that breaks/sweeps. It always makes difficult for me to rank mons that are around that Rank because Blaziken is so strong but so weak, and never really gets results in comparison to other mons.
Blaziken is absolutely deserving of B- and imo should be higher because of the meta trends in its favour (heavy weavile+hail usage, spd lando/hippo, less slowbro, etc). It is an excellent breaker/wincon on screens, using sd to break past shared checks in bad mus, and to sweep/faint 3 mons in good ones. It’s presence on screens is comparable to that of moltres-g, which I assume is why they are ranked together. I actually think terrakion should be B- at minimum, it’s ranking is really low for its viability. As for darm, while it is a powerful breaker with sun support, and a cleaner with scarf, it is rarely able to do both, and it is defo not sweeping any reasonably built ou team since it’s choice locked.

Ur post also reminded me that kommo-o managed to fraud it’s way into the b ranks lol. I think it should be C+, maybe even C, since I have yet to see a consistent set that justifies its presence above mandibuzz, zapdos-g, moltres-g, and blaziken, who all have a consistent presence on certain types of teams.
 

Baloor

It's not rocket science buddy, I failed biology
is a Tiering Contributor
on the note of scizor i really dont think it shouldve risen in the first place. its a fun role compression on bo but has a ton of issues, typically being overwhelmed because it doesnt actually check the things its checking overly well. basically if youre not running +spdef nature you get overwhelmed by the spa attacking mons, if youre not running a +def nature you get overwhelmed by the physically attacker mons. like you can run mix defense spreads but what i said will still be true. scizor is not bad by any sense of the word, but i feel theres been a ton of people overselling it as it can be pressured pretty easily right now and isnt the most reliable when it comes to checking what it needs to as it constantly has to be full hp to do so.

i feel the rise was mostly a late reaction to a trend that happened months ago, back when the meta was riddled with shit like kyurem on every team. its currently a decent compression that can offer a ton of momentum if utilized right but falls short of doing most of the defensive tasks it needs to do since its reliant on being full hp to do so. most offensive cores that contain a mon its "checking" overwhelm the hell out of sciz (ex. lele weavile). this is okay on some bo teams that rely on heavy volt turn to make progress but isnt really acceptable anywhere else. i think it should drop back down to a-, it seems to fit well with most of the other mons there & mons i think should be there. (though i doubt sciz will ever be b+ worthy like the nom above)

dont take this post as me saying scizor is bad because its really not, just doesnt seem worthy of an A ranking to me and its value is really overhyped.
 
Hello! I think Crawdaunt should be at the bottom of B-, above Azumarill in C+. My reasoning for this is Crawdaunt is just slightly faster, has access to a stronger knock off, stronger water stab, and has setup moves that don’t cut your hp in half. I personally have had a lot more luck with crawdaunt than Azumarill, quite literally haha. Play rough seems to miss a lot more than crabhammer despite both being 90% accuracy. Anyways all jokes aside, I guess if you’re weak to tapu fini then azumarill is preferred, but crawdaunt now having close combat opens up so many more opportunities. It has more variety when it comes to items, choice band, life orb, mystic water, protective pads etc. Azumarill has to run choice band or sitrus berry for the belly drum set, and I think so because it needs the attack boost. Crawdaunt’s choice band set is probably its most common so I understand why it’s used on azu too, but crawdaunt can afford to run other things because it’s not supposed to be taking hits. Azu is bulkier and slower so it can to take more abuse and does, yet crawdaunt can do something azu can’t, on non choiced sets you can still threaten the enemy team with hard hitting attacks before using a setup move. Let’s say you’re up against a toxapex, it’s just spamming haze, Azumarill has to switch out or go for a knock off which gets rid of the item and does a chunk. Crawdaunt however has a much stronger knock off it could dish out, and then possibly you could use crunch until they have to recover in which case they can’t haze to stop your setup or possible crunch defense drop. Okay I hope this was enough explanation, if not let me know, thanks!
 
some noms ig, mostly commentary on other people's noms tbh
Scizor A > A-/B+ (probably A-)
Yeah, I agree. The role compression is nice sometimes, but it does a kinda eh job at checking a bunch of things and doesn't do super well against any, which is naturally problematic. I wouldn't go so far to say that offensive sets are better, and it's certainly still not bad, but it's definitely not A-tier, and I can get behind even B+.
dont have much to say w Crawdaunt to say that it's worthy of at least B-, maybe even B
Kommo-o has a lot of pretty good sets imo and bulletproof blocking shadow ball's sorta nice ig. Keep it in B-
why the fuck is swampert still in ou tbh
blaziken should stay as is or rise, probably rise to B
gastro should be B+ or A-, has great role compression to deal with a large variety of threats, i posted about this on the metagame discussion thread not too long ago, here's the post
shed stays in C maybe even a rise
volc rises mb even to A tbh
 
on the note of scizor i really dont think it shouldve risen in the first place. its a fun role compression on bo but has a ton of issues, typically being overwhelmed because it doesnt actually check the things its checking overly well. basically if youre not running +spdef nature you get overwhelmed by the spa attacking mons, if youre not running a +def nature you get overwhelmed by the physically attacker mons. like you can run mix defense spreads but what i said will still be true. scizor is not bad by any sense of the word, but i feel theres been a ton of people overselling it as it can be pressured pretty easily right now and isnt the most reliable when it comes to checking what it needs to as it constantly has to be full hp to do so.

i feel the rise was mostly a late reaction to a trend that happened months ago, back when the meta was riddled with shit like kyurem on every team. its currently a decent compression that can offer a ton of momentum if utilized right but falls short of doing most of the defensive tasks it needs to do since its reliant on being full hp to do so. most offensive cores that contain a mon its "checking" overwhelm the hell out of sciz (ex. lele weavile). this is okay on some bo teams that rely on heavy volt turn to make progress but isnt really acceptable anywhere else. i think it should drop back down to a-, it seems to fit well with most of the other mons there & mons i think should be there. (though i doubt sciz will ever be b+ worthy like the nom above)

dont take this post as me saying scizor is bad because its really not, just doesnt seem worthy of an A ranking to me and its value is really overhyped.
Damn people really underrating Scizor huh
With mixed defences in my experience on the physical it has no trouble handling Rillaboom, Melmetal, Weavile, Kart and knocked/scarf Urshifu (Weavile is good at knocking it, although you should have more ways of dealing with Urshifu).
And on the special side it is, and continues to be, reliable at dealing with Lele and Kyurem. Even without heavy investment it avoids the 2hko from their STABs, only leaving it vulnerable to Focus Miss and its 49% chance to hit twice. Pairing it with threatening ghost types (which are everywhere atm) helps to discourage Focus Blast usage, making Scizor even better at checking Lele and Kyurem.

So suggestions that it can't check relevant mons without significant investment are false. It can, and does, reliably check all kinds of threats with mixed defences.

However, Baloor does make a valid point in saying that Scizor relies on being at full health to check things. While this is not at all true for nearly all of the key threats Scizor checks, it is a relevant point when talking about Specs Lele vs physical bias Scizor, which can be put in range of a Psychic 2HKO if not constantly kept at full health (or very close). And to be fair, Lele is very common and very threatening in the current meta. While Scizor is put in range of other mon's attacks with enough damage, from the mons I've mentioned that typically involves doing upwards of 40% (so, not just some small chip). Damage this significant would affect any mon's ability to check what they want to check. So while phys.def Scizor's ability to check Lele is threatened by chip, most defensive Scizor variants can check their desired targets while not being at 100%.

Therefore I believe this weakness has been overstated.

Of course, Scizor does have weaknesses, most of which it can work around by itself or with team support.
I'm surprised that no one mentioned how much Scizor hates facing Magnezone who can force massive damage, preventing Scizor from checking almost anything unless it gets a chance to roost (which is hard but not impossible). Superpower can help deal with mag, along with Ferro and Heatran who are common switch ins.
On the physical side it's not great vs Band Urshifu, BU zeraora and SD garchomp, meaning it requires support usually in the form of bulky water + bulky ground, with the shared grass weakness easily dealt with by Scizor.
It hates rocky helmet and rough skin chip, although helmets can be knocked and it avoids other forms of chip like sand and toxic.
It also invites in Heatran and Volc, which are very dangerous threats with few checks and counters (if any, depending on the set). Heatran can be knocked, u turned or superpowered, but volc can only be knocked. Toxic is an option that might be underutilised , although it would be worthless against all of Scizor's steel type switchins.

Overall, Scizor is a solid mon that provides teams with a strong blend of offence and defence. Its mixed defence set allows it to check the greatest number of threats while its solid bulk means it does NOT have to care about minor chip unless facing Lele. U-turn and superpower can help to prevent Magnezone from forcing significant damage onto it, while helping Scizor get around checks such as Ferrothorn and Heatran. Solid team support (which should be provided to any mon, since we play 6v6 not 1v1) means that teams won't be left vulnerable to whatever Scizor can't check. Scizor's ability to stay healthy throughout a game gives it an additional role as a late game cleaner with swords dance. And of course, Scizor is excellent at keeping up momentum with u turn which makes it perfect for voltturn and bulky offence.

Considering all of this, I believe Scizor should remain in A

EDIT: See later post I kinda backtracked (but not fully)
 
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