Resource SS OU DLC2 Viability Ranking Thread [See Post #1517 on Page 61]

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The Slowking hate is way too overblown. I am mostly going to do a direct comparison with galar king since that seems to be the direct competitor for it in everyone's minds.
The first thing I want to mention is that slowking can run an assault vest set. I'm not saying it is the best sking set but let's see how different it is from the normal av galar king set.

Slowking @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Def / 224 SpD (Evs can be optimized)
Sassy Nature
- Aqua Tail / Scald / Razor Shell
- Earthquake
- Future Sight
- Flamethrower / Other Coverage

Like galar king, slowking can pivot with av, run future sight for team support, scald for annoyance purposes and even stuff like d tail since it isn't as easily walled by steels so the only thing that actually matter will be the match ups. Thus, to be inferior to av gking, the thing that will mostly matter will be the matchups. Let's look at it's performance against the entire tier.

Ordering the matchups by viability
VS
: AV EQ king is the best heatran counter in the tier. It has the longevity to sponge off hits infinitely, can 2 shot it with eq regardless of the set and can even heal off chip from magma+tox without caring about taunt due to regen andthe attacks dealing like 10% damage. You can even take a knock off from pex or ditch eq for other moves and still be fine to an extent! It is that bulky.

252 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 252 HP / 224+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 38-45 (9.6 - 11.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock, 1 layer of Spikes, and trapping damage

On the other hand, galar king needs eq to hope it can even attempt to check tran, not to mention being vulnerable to both magma storm and earth power, making it a shaky tran check at best.

VS

Both are weak to shadow ball and have their stabs resisted so there is no difference in this match up.

VS
: pretty equal match up, sking can neutralize the future sights with more ease but galar king cannot be poisoned. Sking does better against slack off less galar king due to bulk and water stab support but i don't know how relevant that set is.

VS
: Obviously galar king is better here but did you know that slowking can avoid the 2hko from tbolt after rocks and thus can check koko?
252 SpA Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 224+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking in Electric Terrain: 144-170 (36.5 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Slowking Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 130-154 (46.2 - 54.8%) -- 57% chance to 2HKO
Galar king is bad against zeraora and cannot stop volt switch spam so you need a backup electric check regardless meaning in practise, slowking can serve as a backup koko check and galar king's advantage in this match up is not as bad as it sounds.

VS
: Both checks np+ knock off equally but against pivot variants, slowking is slightly more vulnerable due to being weak to u-turn. Not that noticeable though cuz the damage is low regardless.
0- Atk Tornadus-Therian U-turn vs. 252 HP / 32 Def Slowking: 106-126 (26.9 - 31.9%) -- 56.5% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

VS
: Lele actually has a chance to ohko galar king with psyshock after rocks, making it a bad check at best. On the other hand, slowking is only 3shotted by psyshock after rocks. Even when worn down, this allows it to pivot to a resist regardless of lele's move choice.

VS
: If you need help against it, then it's cm. If it's cm, galar king can't beat it with sludge bomb. Relatively equal match up.

VS
: Not a relevant special attacker imo but i will mention regardless. Galarking slightly better but look at this
+2 252 SpA Ninetales-Alola Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 224+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 152-182 (38.5 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3hko
Without rocks (which is not difficult because hail doesn't like rocks on it's side so it will be focusing on defogging), slowking can easily check it with flamethrower and is actually better against blizzard variants.

VS
: Galar king noticeably better here. Still, slowking is only 2koed 16% of the time from full with specs modest freeze dry so it can pivot against it a couple times due to shrugging off all the other moves. Even with rocks, sking is only barely 2koed and perhaps the opponent will be forced to defog away the rocks to protect his own kyurem. Besides even galar king has a chance to get 2koed by specs modest earth power after rocks.

SubKyurem can only do about 3-5% more damage to slowking with freeze dry than it can do to galar king with earth power so not much difference there. If you run a move that breaks the sub (like psychic or power gem in case you're running scald), the matchup is fairly equal for both variants.

VS
: This thing is more of a steel trapper than a special attacker so i don't think it is very relevant. Besides without specs, even modest magnezone can only 3ko king with rocks, meaning with regen support it can check zone with ease using eq.

VS
: Roasts both but galar king can better fish poison.

VS
: Despite the bug weakness, king is better here. Galar king is easily set up on by roost volc and cannot beat 3 attacks volc 1v1 so it is not a volc check. On the other hand, B buzz volcarona is quite rare these days and ditched in favor of psychic, roost, giga drain or safeguard. Aqua tail sking usually 2koes all volc sets, stone walls all non bbuzz variants while still tanking 1 max spa +1 bug buzz.

VS
: Both are 2koed by shadow ball but kanto king can pivot in on fire moves and 2ko it back.

VS
: Slowking hard walls it, galar king loses.

VS
: Slowking much better cuz galar king gets 2shotted by steam eruption in rain.

VS
: Galar king is much better against it but offensive variants are rare.

VS
: Both fucked by specs shadow ball.

So in terms of special threats, king is better against heatran, lele, volcanion, nidoking and volc whereas galar king is better against koko, kyurem, zone and zapdos. Not quite noticeable wouldn't you say?

Maybe then the difference is against physical threats?
Physical attackers king checks: None, maybe urshifu with about 120 def evs but not going to mention.
Physical attackers king does better against:

Physical attackers galar king checks:
(Not exactly super relevant offensive threats, the more dangerous knock sciz blows away galar king and bulu is rare)
Physical attackers galar does better against:


I haven't even mentioned the telesight set yet. It is quite outdated and doesn't work well in the current meta, but still gives king something else it can do.

From the matchups, it can be argued galar king is slightly better but not exactly noticeable and sking can still do it's av special tanking future sight support job well. Why exactly is then galar king a+ while slowking is being nominated to be dropped all the way to the b/ b- rank? Now, I do realize that team compositions might favor galar king (for instance urshifu pairs better with galar king than slowking) but when looking at the actual matchups, slowking is more than capable of competing with galar king so i feel it can stay at it's current a- rank.
Against most physical both don't do well. While most of the matchups were true, they are not alone enough. Glowking has the ability to fish for poison and has pretty neutral if not good matchup against many threats rn. Slowking vs tran is p difficult as even if you have eq, you have the potential toxic from tran which ruins the mon. And slowking was only used to come in eat, fs and tp. Meanwhile, glowking can flaunt its movepool while having the bulk to shrug hits with ease. Slowking does not "beat" the mons which it actually it switches in to. Lele does not care about scalds, you cant touch volcanion, bulky volc can eats scalds,(idk why you are using tail but it could possibly beat volc which is not maxhp max def). But even then lele has a minute chance to beat you with psyshock assuming timid, If its modest psyshock, glowking at least prevents a free switchin but slowking walls it fs but does not prevent most mons coming in for free because it soo passive. I would not go as far to b-. But b+ would be fine imo
 
Thunder Pwoell always a fan of the heat, but I don't think braviary is it. P sure this is a case of you being a good player, and not so much the pokemon. Can you see the OU lemmings using this effectively? I can't.

Braviary has roost, ghost immune, and hitting OG zapdos over Zapdos-g, otherwise it's straight worse. Why couldnt you also go adamant on Zapdos too? I don't get that point. The difference in close combat power is huge. Banded Zapdos kills melmetal and ferrothorn, whereas braviary does not. Also disagree on braviary being bulkier...you take a quarter from stealth rock unless boots, and then you do no damage.

Anyway, I've tried braviary a bunch and I agree it's not bad, but the stuff that differentiates from Zapdos G would put it more in C something for me. :Thumbs up:

(Granted, I think g zap is the truth)

Most Ferrothorn are 252/252+ at high ranks.

252 Atk Choice Band Zapdos-Galar Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 338-402 (96 - 114.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Braviary Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 248-292 (70.4 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Against the less common 252/80:
252+ Atk Choice Band Braviary Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Ferrothorn: 308-364 (87.5 - 103.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Braviary Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 304-358 (73.9 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Neither kills if based defensive melmetal
Just to chime in I tested Braviary for a few battles and while it is hard to fit on a team (main issue) for defensive reasons it does straight up body people when it gets in. I was actually running BB, CC, U-Turn & Thrash (lol) with Adamant Band and it at minimum always got a kill. Against passive teams it got 2-3 easily. All main moves are 120 base and thrash is lol but it completely bodies Tapu Koko and really anything that isn’t a ghost. Definitely this mon needs to be ranked somewhere in the C tier.
 
Nominating
to A-

Mew, In the current meta is atleast a top 25 mon. It has an amazing base stat of 100 in everything.The sets which are really nice are stated here
1-HO LEAD with a simple set of stealth rocks,spikes,taunt and flare blitz it can get up rocks and spikes to help its teammates sweep.It can do a lot of stuff like use colbur berry as a weaville ct with enough evs to live banded triple axel/knock and ohko with flare blitz. You can also be a normie and use red card or sash.
2-ALL HAIL THE COSMIC POWER FROM ABOVE SORRY FOR BOLD CAPS- Now , I the sam shall describe the beauty and the toruture that swept 1700s and 1800s for a week b4 i tilted again. :psytear: With screens cosmic power mew is semi unbeatable.cosmic power roost stored power body press literally destroys everything not called sableye [tilt makes you see scary things]. So it gets destoryed by status but destroys the pexless teams or baiting knock with weakness policy it can destroy shit. Really nice mon for screens ho and gets wins .
3.Defensive utility. With will o wisp roost night shade and filler [usually rocks or ice beam i think or just random heal bell] it can outstall many things altho it cant outstall the wall. It still can really put it work and do a lot of funny shit.
4. The very nice heatran+dragon counter- with eq and ice beam it can epicly click ice beam on lando and dragonite and even mr chompie and earthquake on heatran. I personally try to run it with leftovers and the epic roost heal bell [heal bell over rocks:psywoke:]
Lovely calcs go here-​


+2 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 305-360 (75.4 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery



0 SpA Mew Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Garchomp: 296-352 (82.9 - 98.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock [Guar after lo chip]


0 SpA Mew Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Landorus-Therian: 216-256 (56.5 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery



252+ Atk Choice Band Landorus-Therian Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 272-320 (67.3 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It lives all of the attacks and eats for dinner.


0 Atk Mew Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 240-284 (62.1 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery



0 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mew: 97-115 (24 - 28.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery and trapping damage


ate for brunch.


+2 252 Atk Dragonite Dual Wingbeat (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 194-230 (48 - 56.9%) -- approx. 31.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery



0 SpA Mew Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 130-154 (40.2 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO [after scale is broken its a 2hko]



Anyway thats my trash post and have a great day.
he's right by the way. Mew has so many sets it makes it unpredictable and is able to be a defensive monster or great sweeper. I didn't even realize it was this low, we definitely should put it up there as it can kill every single mon in the tier depending on the set consistently
 
where is the discussion forum

but i also wanna contribute, and: i think we need lucario. its still insane, with the inner focus buff, HJK, ice punch, t punch, shadow ball, and still spamming SD, scarf, priority galore, blasting ice types, and quadresisting rocks, toxic immune, and a still good attack of 110.

parabalance (pokepast.es)

i got 15 straight wins w this team

for example, its type being put to use on balance, and being a ridiculous revenge killer with good bulk, lando shutdown (it lives a defensive eq after 2spikes layers, and destroys on switch with a normal attack ice punch because intim is useless.) and a lot of surprise factors. i say like c, but any where on the ranking is good because tpunch sets only wall is corv and lando, while ice punch is corv and pex, and thats iffy with rocks support.

ausma edit: please add replays to support your nom or ill have to delete this; ill give you 24 hours

finding
 
Last edited:
where is the discussion forum

but i also wanna contribute, and: i think we need lucario. its still insane, with the inner focus buff, HJK, ice punch, t punch, shadow ball, and still spamming SD, scarf, priority galore, blasting ice types, and quadresisting rocks, toxic immune, and a still good attack of 110.

parabalance (pokepast.es)

i got 15 straight wins w this team

for example, its type being put to use on balance, and being a ridiculous revenge killer with good bulk, lando shutdown (it lives a defensive eq after 2spikes layers, and destroys on switch with a normal attack ice punch because intim is useless.) and a lot of surprise factors. i say like c, but any where on the ranking is good because tpunch sets only wall is corv and lando, while ice punch is corv and pex, and thats iffy with rocks support.
2 things:

1. Why are you Air Cutter Zapdos?
2. How are you fitting priority if you’re forced to run Ice Punch and Thunder Punch? I guess zone is an option…
 
where is the discussion forum

but i also wanna contribute, and: i think we need lucario. its still insane, with the inner focus buff, HJK, ice punch, t punch, shadow ball, and still spamming SD, scarf, priority galore, blasting ice types, and quadresisting rocks, toxic immune, and a still good attack of 110.

parabalance (pokepast.es)

i got 15 straight wins w this team

for example, its type being put to use on balance, and being a ridiculous revenge killer with good bulk, lando shutdown (it lives a defensive eq after 2spikes layers, and destroys on switch with a normal attack ice punch because intim is useless.) and a lot of surprise factors. i say like c, but any where on the ranking is good because tpunch sets only wall is corv and lando, while ice punch is corv and pex, and thats iffy with rocks support.

ausma edit: please add replays to support your nom or ill have to delete this; ill give you 24 hours
First off,
If you are nomming an UR mon, show some replays.
Second off, If you nomming a mon show its best set. This does not makes too much sense.
If i were you, I would go with sd, meteor mash, cc, es. Adamant LO.

The team is flawed, celebi aint viable, rotom f aint viable, kasib slowbro for pult?!?!?. The team needs to be revamped. I would use lucario on a HO(screens) team to give its at most mediocre bulk some decent bulk. Then to get outclassed by literally outclassed by every fighting type in ou.
 
where is the discussion forum

but i also wanna contribute, and: i think we need lucario. its still insane, with the inner focus buff, HJK, ice punch, t punch, shadow ball, and still spamming SD, scarf, priority galore, blasting ice types, and quadresisting rocks, toxic immune, and a still good attack of 110.

parabalance (pokepast.es)

i got 15 straight wins w this team

for example, its type being put to use on balance, and being a ridiculous revenge killer with good bulk, lando shutdown (it lives a defensive eq after 2spikes layers, and destroys on switch with a normal attack ice punch because intim is useless.) and a lot of surprise factors. i say like c, but any where on the ranking is good because tpunch sets only wall is corv and lando, while ice punch is corv and pex, and thats iffy with rocks support.

ausma edit: please add replays to support your nom or ill have to delete this; ill give you 24 hours
This does not show what lucario does or accomplish, not only is the team flawed, I can tell you are new, you should try to lurk a bit more and learn the viability of sets and what pokemon are good, 3/6 mons are UR, as ausma edited and others hav said provide replays
 
C+ -> C

These pokemon have no niche what so ever besides on TR, they should be on par with the other abusers or setters since why would you use cress anywhere else or glastier anywhere else? Glastier especially is not an auto pick for TR as the main members are tr is always cress/hatt/p2/melm/alolawak/filler. Cresselia is outclassed anywhere else by slowking or slowking-g defensively and even by mew, it just does nothing but trick room and lunar dance, its extreemly passive, and just is easily expolitable by a lot of pokemon. Glastier is slow, a bad defensive typing, and strurggles to break through pokemon outside of TR like ID skarmory, slowbro, buzzwole, scizor, volcarona, and phys def pex.
 
:volcanion:>B+/A-: Volcanion is a deadly wallbreaker that has been gaining a lot of usage with its absurd coverage and high special attack making it an instant threat for many teams with limited counters. It becomes even deadlier when used on weather teams boosting its attacks, while Hail appreciates its ability to break past through Steel-types and other things that give it trouble. A good offensive typing with not bad bulk from both sides and a useful ability as a Water immunity is really useful in this meta when offensive and defensive water types are ever so common, as well as be able to take advantage of Tapu Fini, and situationally switch into Urshifu-R recovering its health back. Volcanion has proven to be a potent wallbreaker in the tier and deserves a raise, despite needing a bunch of support to make full use of it to function.

:ferrothorn:>A+: A bulky Steel-type that is able to check Tapu Koko and the dominant Hail archetype is such a good pick right now. Ferrothorn ability to check a bunch of threats and providing a lot of utility for its team is really good you got Spikes setter, Knock Off for disruption, Leech Seed is annoying, and while Thunder Wave is uncommon can be useful occasionally. Ferrothorn's typing makes it a good check to a plethora of threats like Tapu Fini, Weavile, and Tapu Lele and an amazing ability that punishes U-Turners or making contact against it. Despite the lack of reliable recovery, with its great typing and bulk letting it take hits, and gets plenty of opportunities to set Leech Seeds up which helps it in a way but also wears down the opposing and gives your teammates additional recovery. Very annoying defensive mon which provides a lot for any team and is overall really good right now and deserves to rise.

:slowbro:>A-: Slowbro has become a lot better in the metagame being able to check threats like Urshifu-R, Melmetal, and offensive Ground-types while being able to support its teammates by bringing them in safely with Teleport and making wallbreakers even deadlier with Future Sight. While Slowbro will occasionally isn't on the same level as Toxapex and Tapu Fini as a bulky Water-type the metagame has been a bit kinder to it these days despite not changing much. It even has the option to run Colbur Berry with Body Press letting it take on Weavile. Slowbro overall is a better pick these days for the offensive threats it could check and support it provides for teams and is a lot better than its dominant brother Slowking now.

:slowking: > B+: Once dominant in the metagame now struggles with a bunch of the current metagame main threats like Weavile, Dragapult, Urshifu-R, and the list goes on. Slowking is hard to fit on teams and face competition with the other where Slowbro is able to check Urshifu-R, Melmetal, and Barraskweda while the regional form of Slowking being a better pick as well covering likes of Tapu Koko, Kyurem, and can scout Urshifu-R as well as soft check Tapu Lele. Even as a bulky Water-type it faces severe competition from better picks like Toxapex, Tapu Fini, Gastrodon, and the previously mentioned Slowking. Sure Slowking can scout Tapu Lele and is an alright check against Volcanion and Galarian Slowking which can be helpful for some teams, though it is really hard to justify in a team slot in the current metagame.

:swampert:>B-: Swampert is an awkward case when it comes to as a bulky Water and Ground-type that is able to set up Stealth Rocks and provide momentum for its team, however, there's nothing else that makes it worthwhile using. The lack of reliable recovery hurts it a lot meaning it's easy to wear down especially after losing its item. Swampert is outclassed by several things and while the ability to check Heatran and hail can be helpful, that slot could be something else that brings more to your team with better utility and longevity. Swampert is a fringe option that doesn't provide much of an offensive presence when compared to other Stealth Rocks setters such as Landorus-T and Heatran and the better utility that they provide for teams. Whenever you use Swampert you are wasting a team slot for something that barely provides anything for your team when compared to other things that can do its role a lot better for what they offer and bring for teams, and when reflecting on Swampert in terms of viability it should reflect upon looking like the weakest link from the rest of B rank.


Noms I Agree with
:victini: >A-

:melmetal: > A+

:kyurem: > A+

:shedinja: > whatever rank is more fitting for it


Noms I disagree with
:tapu lele: > A+: Tapu Lele is an incredible pick though it has some noticeable flaws preventing it from really pushing it to A+. You gotta be amazing with predictions otherwise you become easily abused by the moves you get locked in and really dislikes how a lot of teams have a bunch of Steel-types these days on every team as they want to have a solid line of defense for Hail teams while hurting Tapu Lele in the long wrong. You really need to support this thing a lot in order to accomplish in what you want it to do with mons that can help break past Steel-types and pivots that can bring it in safely. Compared to the rest of A+ they bring some type of defensive utility, while Tapu Lele is a situational Close Combat switch-in. Overall Tapu Lele isn't bad, but pushing it to A+ is a bit of a stretch when you realize there's a bit more negatives than positive despite how potent it is.

:urshifu-rapid-strike: >S-: Urshifu-R isn't on the same level as the rest of S- and while it is a deadly wallbreaker I wouldn't say it is on par to be classified as S-. Urshifu-R does warp the metagame to the same extent that the other S- mons do, but the metagame has evolved to better handling it with Water-resists being ever so common on every team. There are ways to punish it in the move it gets locked in with Rocky Helmet users, immunities, or resistance leaving it vulnerable needing for it to switch out, though Protective Pads does make up for that. With Slowbro being used more frequently and fat teams adapting with Toxapex using Light Screen to decrease Future Sight damage and Tapu Fini being dominant, it shows how the meta has responded to Urshifu-R which proves its presence is impactful, but when compared to the other mons in S- it's not on that level yet.

:volcarona: > A: Volcarona is in the same spot it always has been and despite Heatran being ever so common, the metagame has adapted to Voclarona while it is still something every team needs to prepare for its also the thing that the entire team has a way to pressure it without letting it get many opportunities and while there's like two reliable answers there are still many things that it hates or mons that don't give it any opportunities at all. I talked about Volcarona more in-depth here and ways to deal with it, and while it's a bit dated some things are still accurate to this day, and having it on A- is fine and reflects the state it's in the metagame.
 
some thoughts on :Tyranitar:

it’s a very good Pokémon right now due to ghost spam. Lele spam, and Kyurem.

basically right now, the top choice item breakers are:

:dragapult: near-uncontested speed, and a 20% chance to break most of its checks

:Tapu lele: uncontested power, forces 50/50 choices for offensive teams

:barraskewda: uncontested speed and power, unless you can change the weather. Funnily it’s completely shut down by a few Pokémon, but otherwise it just rails flip turns on offensive teams until the late game liquidation s

:urshifu-rapid-strike: this is not necessarily overwhelming. However it is particularly versatile defensively against other offensive juggernauts, particularly weavile.

:kyurem: this is the first thing you need to prepare for in teambuilder if you have any intention of going past 1900 ELO. The ice beam is disgusting and it’s partners usually easily weaken its checks.

:blacephalon: currently blacephalon is possibly the most dangerous matchup based Pokémon, due to most of its non-passive checks being unpopular. If a team is running blissey or something similar, it’s easy to play around it.



if you are running an offensive team and need to break past 1900 elo, youll have a really hard time without very good checks to the top 6 because of all the 50/50 situations you’ll be forced into.

Tyranitar helps against 3 of the biggest choice threats, and can easily be partnered with something to deal with barraskewda and lele (such as a regenerator slowtwin). Urshifu is a little harder to cope with, but that’s less of a massive thorn in most teams due to the fact that it can be worn down more easily.

It also comes in handy when trying to reset weather, deal with threats like sponging a hurricane, or chip a multi scale dragonite (to make it worse at checking your partnered Kartana/urshifu/volc/etc).

if you’re willing to forego stealth rock, you can really tech on just about every Pokémon. With its massive move pool.

the set that got me to rank 1 on ladder is below:


Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 236 HP / 52 SpA / 148 SpD / 72 Spe
Gentle Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Blast
- Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt

its a very customisable Pokémon. In this set up, it has enough speed for corviknight and paralysed base 110 speed Pokémon. Corviknight can 2hko with body press, but it usually needs to become sub 70% HP for that due to flamethrower being used first, making it near useless and easy for the rest of the team to take it on.

ive attached a screenshot of the rank, and there’s bonus replays, all are above 1900. These show how it can put in work vs offensive threats.



—-

replay 1: Tyranitar shows how it can break some hyper offense structures. It walls blacephalon, wears down latios into revenge range, and finally trades hits with Celesteela.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1432134404-vgypdcoqplso74rbozilu3nrah08avwpw

—-

Replay 2: Tyranitar and Tapu fini work in tandem to wear down two very strong attackers. The double switching from Storm Zone put massive pressure and they still somehow opened up the team. A replay against one of the best players in OU!

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1432120430-udhmzfs7bqrgqnbia5dxhqj65jsreinpw



there are battles against other weathers where the disruption is very handy. For example, tanking strong weather hits like hurricane, heatrans eruption, and annoying ice teams by easily switching in on most Ninetails



Long story short, Tyranitar is a great tool to help you cope better against some of the biggest threats right now. Unfortunately it is very susceptible to pressure, but it’s usefulness against some of the scariest Pokémon can’t be understated!

it’s a solid A Pokémon now, the bullet points:

- sand storm chip damage is a big deal right now

- great stealth rock candidate, makes it a good overall nuisance

- checks some of the scariest choice Pokémon right now! You can use it with regenerators to help a little better against some of the ones it can’t do alone

- surprisingly easy to partner with

- Blacephalon is one of the best offensive Pokémon now and too many teams that are built with it have ways to get around its other checks



Warning: Tyranitar in a weather based team is going to struggle because the high pressure meta means Tyranitar doesn’t work well as a Pokémon to preserve for lots of sandstorm turns, and you don’t want to stack weaknesses, so Tyranitar won’t be able to properly check what it needs to!



:tapu fini:

this is the closest Pokémon to S I think, but not quite S. It’s really the most useful “offensive defensive” Pokémon right now. It’s best set is a defensive one, but it ends up doing heavy work offensively as well.

sets that aren’t 252 HP / 252 Def with a bold nature will seriously struggle verse the sheer power of all the offensive threats that it switches into. For example an urshifu/Weavile double whammy will easily overwhelm any variant that isn’t max defense.

it’s important to have high defense so you can properly check dragonite, dragon dance dragapult, and garchomp as well. Although garchomp is a semi-exception, due to the scarfset checking it better.

there are a lot of teams weak to Tapu fini nature’s madness spam, and throw in taunt to make fini a great Pokémon to open up stall teams.

The best thing about using fini? It baits in glowking, toxapex, Melmetal and Ferrothorn like flies to honey! So get something on the team to take advantage of these.

I hesitate to say it’s S because it doesn’t feel as perfectly useful as a landorus, or as threatening as a heatran/dragapult/garchomp. It also can’t be slapped onto any team as those fine specimen 600+BST threats can be.

It also sucks that’s it’s weak to every other terrain Pokémon, including lele. But the support it provides to teams as well as the ability to check some of the strongest Pokémon in OU right now is a big deal.





:Volcarona: bulkarona variants are already good. With misty terrain support, bulkarona is simply the best switch into kyurem. This is because draco meteor is no longer a 2hko.

Bulkarona can also switch into potential thunder wave + protective pads variants of Melmetal risk free. This is assuming it’s not teching a rock slide.

Bulkarona also has a chance to set up status-free once you’re ready to sack fini. This is a big deal because a LOT of teams rely on ground type + toxic as their most reliable check to Volcarona.

bulkarona is already a top check to Kartana and Rillaboom, both of these are threats fini really dislikes. Specially defensive Kartana is a nuisance as it easily switches in on fini, and can use a risk-free knock off on bulkarona. Rillaboom will most likely knock off or grassy glide after it switches in on fini, both will usually leave Volcarona with the upper hand (only risk the knock off if you can keep pressure up on the other teams stealth rock user to prevent stealth rock!)

the anti synergy is that unfortunately Volcarona can’t threaten burns with flame body, however the majority of the time this is only relevant vs Melmetal, due to the other common fini switch ins not minding a burn anyway.
 

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dragapult > A: I know what you're thinking, but everyone has been heads and heels over this thing, and I don't really get why. It's main set is SpA and toxapex/clef easily checks it, not to mention other common pivots such as heatran or glowking. It is still a good mon thats only outsped by Zera and the occasional regi, but it does not quite put a dent in most teams, that is my experience.

Umbreon > A: I would probably even put A+, but this is a new mon that has went undetected. With bold nature and max def/hp, it eats (almost) everything in the tier, EASILY. +2 EQ from Garchomp? No problem. +2 LO bisharp iron head? Easy. Future sight with some attack? EASY, especially with protect, just pray they don't have urshifu R too. Best part is that it has STAB foul play, as well as wish to heal up your team, and heal bell to get rid of pesky statues.
 

BT89

formerly BreakthrU89
is a Pre-Contributor
Umbreon > A: I would probably even put A+, but this is a new mon that has went undetected. With bold nature and max def/hp, it eats (almost) everything in the tier, EASILY. +2 EQ from Garchomp? No problem. +2 LO bisharp iron head? Easy. Future sight with some attack? EASY, especially with protect, just pray they don't have urshifu R too. Best part is that it has STAB foul play, as well as wish to heal up your team, and heal bell to get rid of pesky statues.
i disagree with this. as cool as umbreon is, a tier is far too high for it in ou. sure it has cool traits (wish tect, pult check, generally very bulky), but it also has too many flaws. it’s typing is a double edged sword, as while a ghost resist is very good, weaknesses to common offensive types such as fighting and fairy, and a weakness to the most common pivot tool (u-turn) certainly doesn’t help. it’s also very passive, and this in tandem with needing a two turn recovery, makes it very easy to abuse. this passivity also makes it feel like set up fodder at times (assuming the set is wish tect foul play heal bell, and even if toxic, steels are pretty much on every team). it also makes it super vulnerable to taunt and trick. i wouldn’t be opposed to putting umbreon on the vr, as checking ghosts is a good attribute, but i def wouldn’t put it over C atm.

also u need replays for UR (un ranked) noms!
 
dragapult > A: I know what you're thinking, but everyone has been heads and heels over this thing, and I don't really get why. It's main set is SpA and toxapex/clef easily checks it, not to mention other common pivots such as heatran or glowking. It is still a good mon thats only outsped by Zera and the occasional regi, but it does not quite put a dent in most teams, that is my experience.

Umbreon > A: I would probably even put A+, but this is a new mon that has went undetected. With bold nature and max def/hp, it eats (almost) everything in the tier, EASILY. +2 EQ from Garchomp? No problem. +2 LO bisharp iron head? Easy. Future sight with some attack? EASY, especially with protect, just pray they don't have urshifu R too. Best part is that it has STAB foul play, as well as wish to heal up your team, and heal bell to get rid of pesky statues.
Toxapex clef have to stay at full and not be knocked while also having a bit of sp def, since a drop ruins them, heatran and glowking take so much that they can pivot in like once or twice at max, regieleki cant even 1 shot it, while zera cannot pivot in. Toxapex and clef are just absolutely destroyed via pressure from other teammates like heatran, iron head ferrothron, and slowbro future sight. It is really easy to force those pokemon to be on the backfoot every time they come in and 20% drop, let us not forget a 20% chance to ruin the opponent's pokemon and have to switch out. Even in bad MU's it does fine via u-turn and forcing progress via shadow ball drops. The pivot set is also very good as it can spread burns/paralysis and ruin some pokemon such as AV torn, bisharp, and tyranitar.

Umbreon is passive as hell, can be statused and is forced to either be passive, or have clerics which are not the best and do not want to give up a moveslot to it such as clefable, blissey, and dragonite. It is really only useful on stall as mandibuzz does a better job at walling as it has 1 turn recovery, pivoting options, knock which can make it less passive and the additonal resistance of flying type.
 
dragapult > A: I know what you're thinking, but everyone has been heads and heels over this thing, and I don't really get why. It's main set is SpA and toxapex/clef easily checks it, not to mention other common pivots such as heatran or glowking. It is still a good mon thats only outsped by Zera and the occasional regi, but it does not quite put a dent in most teams, that is my experience.

Umbreon > A: I would probably even put A+, but this is a new mon that has went undetected. With bold nature and max def/hp, it eats (almost) everything in the tier, EASILY. +2 EQ from Garchomp? No problem. +2 LO bisharp iron head? Easy. Future sight with some attack? EASY, especially with protect, just pray they don't have urshifu R too. Best part is that it has STAB foul play, as well as wish to heal up your team, and heal bell to get rid of pesky statues.
I love umbreon and do think that it could go to like C- or C (gotta get replays first though lol), but A is waaay too high for it. First of all, it's incredibly passive. The set you listed is free entry for Pokémon like Heatran, Fini, Koko, Clef and Lele, who in turn massively threaten it. 2 Turn recovery is incredibly exploitable with things like Trick or Toxic (because even if you have Heal Bell, you're still wasting a turn to heal off the status). Its biggest problem by far, though, is Urshifu. It comes in on it for free, threatens to OHKO with Banded CC and can easily U-Turn for momentum. Umbreon is also incredibly spikes weak and can easily be worn down to range of the Pokémon you mentioned.
 
I play a lot of OU showdown, but sorry very new to the system. I am around 1900s on the ladder so I guess I have some say? Umbreon really is strong tho, like it alone doesnt check everything of course, but say heatran fini koko can be checked by other things obviously. But which other mon is so forgiving that you can let a +2 garchomp set up and not have repurcussions? Just saying. Wish/heal bell tech is OP honestly idk, only clef and blissey do it consistently and they are both OU.

I think I just connected my account.
 
I play a lot of OU showdown, but sorry very new to the system. I am around 1900s on the ladder so I guess I have some say? Umbreon really is strong tho, like it alone doesnt check everything of course, but say heatran fini koko can be checked by other things obviously. But which other mon is so forgiving that you can let a +2 garchomp set up and not have repurcussions? Just saying. Wish/heal bell tech is OP honestly idk, only clef and blissey do it consistently and they are both OU.

I think I just connected my account.
can you provide replays, it would be pretty useful to determine in what is its purpose supposed to be and how well its doing in those matchups, since its hard to determine without them
 

TailGlowVM

Sponsored by Ampharos Lighting
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I play a lot of OU showdown, but sorry very new to the system. I am around 1900s on the ladder so I guess I have some say? Umbreon really is strong tho, like it alone doesnt check everything of course, but say heatran fini koko can be checked by other things obviously. But which other mon is so forgiving that you can let a +2 garchomp set up and not have repurcussions? Just saying. Wish/heal bell tech is OP honestly idk, only clef and blissey do it consistently and they are both OU.

I think I just connected my account.
If you can't provide replays, would it be possible to give us a set and some more precise details as to what it's meant to do? Like, Bisharp and Garchomp are checked by several other Pokemon, and Protect to deal with Future Sight isn't an unseen tech at this point. We want to know why you'd use it over something like Corviknight or Buzzwole as a wall that checks physical attackers, or Clefable or Blissey for a Wish-passer.
 
But which other mon is so forgiving that you can let a +2 garchomp set up and not have repurcussions? Just saying.
Clef. Clefable unaware does this while also not being passive. Seriously, umbreon is bad, it lets too many huge threats for free, is a momentum sink, is very prone to hazard and status, a setup fodder for most steels (literrally free heatran and ferro in), and the few things it check can be checked by far better mons. Wish is cool, but it's hard to pull off and you will prefer better user like blissey with her huge hp or clef, an overall good utility mon. Heal bell is cool, but it can be pp stalled pretty easily, and clef is an overall better user for it, and dnite can be both a tran in and an urshifu in and an offensive threat.

Umbreon just checks some choiced mons, because other wise they will often pivot on it or setup on it. Even stuff like bisharp or chomp can just switch out to literally any steel, which will abuse umbreon, or grab momentum. The only cool thing umbreon does is check ghost spam, but it's better to check ghost spam offensivly or with the momentum grabbing blissey (which is better cleric btw). The worst thing about umbreon is that it doesn't just very few pokemons, it lets in for free so many good mons it's not even funny. It lets in for free :
:heatran: heatran, one of the tier most dangerous mon
:tapu koko: tapu koko which will threaten dgleam and can turn for free momentum
:Ferrothorn: ferrothorn, which will lay at least one layer for free, two if you woshed the turn it comes in
:tapu fini: tapu fini, who will recover a bit of lefto and threaten a trap or a trick
:magnezone: magnezone, which can be annoying if flash cannon or toxic
:clefable: one of ou's best mons, take absolutly nothing from umbreon, can sr, moonblast, cm, completly for free
:toxapex: toxa can come in, toxic, scald or tspikes
:Tornadus-therian: granted torna doesn't threaten ohko directly, but it can regen and koff and turn which is pretty annoying, it can also taunt and destroy umbreon, or np fblast
:scizor: zor can come in and u-turn or roost if it's low
:blissey: bliss can come in, free heal, then go to another threat
:corviknight: the bird will come in, defog or take momentum, can beat umbreon if it's bulk up or i def
:skarmory: skarm can spike, roost, and beat umbreon if idef body press
:volcarona: volcarona can come in and set up on umbreon if it's safeguard
:kyurem: kyurem can come in if it didn't click toxic, sub roost and them destroy everything. Specs can beat umbreon with focus blast too
:slowbro: slowbro can slack off, regen, and tp, since foul play can't even break 1/3 of it's hp
:tyranitar: this is one is on the limit since it can't reco outside of rest, but spedef comes in pretty easily and can set sandstorm up and sr. Band will take like 25 % from foul play and 2hko with stone edge
:buzzwole: it can come in on foul play, and 2hko with drain punch or toxic. Toxic is annoying for it but the fatter builds it's on often have a cleric.
:hippowdon: can come in and set up sand and sr. It's annoyed by toxic but since it's almost only on fatter build with a cleric it can deal with it.
:ninetales-alola: comes in, doesn't really care about either foul play or toxic, can encore or set veil, can np moonblast too
:hawlucha: free in, sd and can ohko. Worst thing umbreon can do to it is toxic.

Honorary mention to :tapu lele: tapu lele and :urshifu-rapid strike: urshifu-r, which I didn't include because they lack reliable recovery and often really don't like chip from toxic or foul play, but who can both come in, threaten ohko while being huge threats, and shifu can even pivot.

Tldr : umbreon is realky bad because it lets in like 7/8th of the tier for free while not walling that much, what it can do is done better by far better mons, and it's also too passive and too much prone to be worn down through the course of the game to be featured on stall or beat stall.

Also I agree that pult should drop to A+, meta has shifted to better check it.
 
While I do agree that umbreon should be ranked because it has a niche on certain stalls, it’s strictly worse than other mons outside of stall, so like C/C- would be fine imo.
As for dragapult, I would actually push it back to S before I drop it to A+. While the meta has shifted to check pult better, I think that’s more of a testament to its omnipresence and influence on the meta because of how threatening it is. Dragapult is still extraordinarily threatening to offensive teams, weav can only come in once and only on sball, this is the case for many pult checks, they are threatened by two of draco meteor, shadow ball, or coverage, so you have to predict well. Uturn also turns it into a momentum machine vs things it can’t break.

(Also guys use lefties sd blaziken it’s like bu zera but it actually does damage turn 2 post in the discussion thread coming soon)
 
100 percent agree that Pult should drop. So many of its checks are so common rn such as sp def Lando Fini Heatran etc that it makes me wonder why Dragapult was ever considered broken. Not to mention the influx offensive checks like Weavile arctozolt zeraora. I don’t think fitting in at least two checks to pult on a team is very difficult anymore. A+ suits it more imo
 
I will like to nominate :Aegislash: to B+
Lately i being testing a team around it and so far i think is a worthy rise since is an underrated wallbreaker in the current meta. Unlike other mons in the B tier and B+ it have an amazing defensive typing it offers a good defensive sinergy in balance teams unlike other B tier breakers like Dracozolt, Nidoking and Hawlucha menwhile it not only have a good defensive typing it have an excellent offensive pressure with his Ghost and Steel stab with access to Close Combat to lure in one of the premiers Ghost inmunitys Blissey.

With a decent priority in Shadow Sneak to catch up low targets it have a good match up against a plethora of synergies and defensive cores like Slowking-G, Tapu Fini and can several damage premier defensive walls in the meta like Heatran and Landorus-T and it can switch into one of the most dangerous breakers: Tapu Lele.

Overall i think is a good wallbreaker that can overload checks and abuse slow balance teams and unlike other breakers it offers a good defensive synergy with perhaps one of the best defensive typings in the game.
 
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C+ -> C

These pokemon have no niche what so ever besides on TR, they should be on par with the other abusers or setters since why would you use cress anywhere else or glastier anywhere else? Glastier especially is not an auto pick for TR as the main members are tr is always cress/hatt/p2/melm/alolawak/filler. Cresselia is outclassed anywhere else by slowking or slowking-g defensively and even by mew, it just does nothing but trick room and lunar dance, its extreemly passive, and just is easily expolitable by a lot of pokemon. Glastier is slow, a bad defensive typing, and strurggles to break through pokemon outside of TR like ID skarmory, slowbro, buzzwole, scizor, volcarona, and phys def pex.
Disagreed on Cress.

Cress is a decent Trick-Scarfer in tandem with its version of Healing Wish. It's a good lure and a essentially a bulkier version of Healing Wish Latias.
 
Disagreed on Cress.

Cress is a decent Trick-Scarfer in tandem with its version of Healing Wish. It's a good lure and a essentially a bulkier version of Healing Wish Latias.
I would still put cress in C rank,that set is basically non existant, and its more niche than the trick room set, it is as niche as quagsire and ditto on stall, if not even less. I would even say if we were ranking cress on that set alone it would be C-.
 
100 percent agree that Pult should drop. So many of its checks are so common rn such as sp def Lando Fini Heatran etc that it makes me wonder why Dragapult was ever considered broken. Not to mention the influx offensive checks like Weavile arctozolt zeraora. I don’t think fitting in at least two checks to pult on a team is very difficult anymore. A+ suits it more imo
Honestly, I wouldn't call those defensive checks too reliable, espically since they don't have reliable recovery. SpDef Lando and Heatran get blown back by Hydro Pump, while Tapu Fini gets worn down by Thunderbolt, putting all of them in Shadow Ball range.


252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Landorus-Therian: 248-294 (64.9 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Landorus-Therian: 136-162 (35.6 - 42.4%) -- 92.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Against Landorus-T, you need to predict right once and Landorus-T can't switch in again.

252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 208-246 (53.8 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 114-135 (29.5 - 34.9%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Heatran is in a similar boat to Landorus-T, though some chip damage from Stealth Rock or something will be necessary to get it down to Shadow Ball range.

252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 44+ SpD Tapu Fini: 172-204 (50 - 59.3%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 44+ SpD Tapu Fini: 115-136 (33.4 - 39.5%) -- 20.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Tapu Fini is in a similar boat to the other two mons. It can't switch into Shadow Ball after one correct prediction (bit of chip damage is required though).

Admittingly, fitting both Thunderbolt and Hydro Pump on the same set will be a bit difficult. However, its not like Dragapult is doing insignificant damage to these mons with Shadow Ball. Dealing 30% to mons with no recovery really helps soften them up and makes it a lot easier for something like Zeraora to break through Landorus-T or Volcarona to break through Fini. Dragapult's speed also basically means its getting 2 chances to fire off Shadow Balls to these switch-ins (you can probably get up to 3 - 4 Shadow Balls against Heatran since it can't OHKO Dragapult). Combined with the 20% SpDef drop and Dragapult is wearing these mons down significantly, which is huge since Tapu Fini, Heatran, and Landorus-T are all necessary to blanket check many other threats (namely Volcarona).
 
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