SS OU - Double Ghost

[vinicius luiggi]

Quick Preview: The teams main idea is to spam ghost type attacks directed on the special side, since many teams are using Clefable, Heatran and Tapu-fini as their ghost resist, and with Bisharp, Weaville and Hydreigon getting easily worn down, or just flat out booped by draco and sludge wave, the only 2 real ghost resists out there are Blissey and Mandibuzz, and with the latter running phys. def. it gets 2 hit K.O.ed by draco from specs Dragapult.

Dragapult: Specs Dragapult is the main sweeper, It can pressure heatran quite heavily by ressisting magma storm, and if it hits it with a u-turn on the switch its gets us safely to Urshifu-Rapid-Strike, I am quite unsure of what scarfers, and setup sweepers I should be aiming to out speed with Dragapult but atm a I am considering droping down to 160 Speed, 96 HP, timid nature, just enough to out speed max speed timid tapu-koko, not sure if I value the speed tie vs opposing pult vs. the extra bulk either.

Gengar: If pult is the main sweeper gengar is here to break, it forces opposing cleff running knock-off to risk dropping to sludge wave or letting me setup a nasty plot, and for those lacking knock-off, moon blast has a small chance of not even breaking sub, with a similar logic applying to other faries, neither mandibuzz, nor, tran apreciate the +2 hits, giving me a good chance of killing them before they kill me.

Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: This guy counters, pretty much all the dark types, weavile, bisharp, t-tar, and with bulk-up it does a number on mandibuzz 2, its swicthes a few times into tran, since we are using it as a bulky hitter, the leftovers set helps stay healthy, and so does the drain punch, if I ever find a pex without haze I am beating it 1v1, this 3 mons are the ones I am more confident about, many things ursifu baits, such as zapdos, pex, corvi, slowbro and tangrowth strungle vs at least 1 of the ghosts.

Zapdos: This is kind of a catch all, u know zapdos, its here for that flying/fight/ground resit, but I have really felt that for as amazing as it is, it takes on too many jobs the lack of toxic has been a huge detriment, ame goes for volt switch, heat wave has been hitting mostly just ferrothorn, wich I am not even sure I need 2, since I might be able to just deal with it fire-blast from specs pult, also it has been doubling up a bit on the job of hippo.

Hippodown: The team so far is very weak to eletric type attacks, and gets dumked specially by voltswithch, so here is hippo, it has the luxury of beating special attackers in the eletric type, while acting as a physical wall, toxic helps against zapdos, mandibuzz, tornadus, I might need to pump some sp. def in here to take a few hits from weaker special attackers, who might come in trying to defog, but just don't know enought to proper target, and atm just don't want to lose any physcall bulk for something that might not come into play.
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Updates:

:Hippowdon: Hippowdon: now is rocking the ice fang, and is back to phys. def. cause I was getting very annoyed by , ice fang hits :landourus-T: just as good as toxic, and its hits setup for a good amount, still terrified of some of these mons but it's better now.

Blissey: is in, I know she is kinda of a no brainer mon, but bitch puts in the work, it deals with and ghosts, and without her team gets ass blasted by those 2 things, +with a lot of special attackers, and then teleport is just great with banded and specs , and heaving a in the back when I am facing a :drapult: speed tie, just makes my opponent feel Iike he has a 25% chance of winning that exchange, I have considered the calm mind set, and heal beal mind find it's way in there, maybe wish, toxic has been awesome 2, really have not made my mind about a set, going standart atm.

Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: Is now banded, it did have a niche but that nich wasn't helping the team, the u-turn+the power is just better, for this buil at least, vs and my lefties were getting knock off anyway, I do think the sub bulk-up set is nasty and might find a home at some point.

Open questions: There might be more but atm my doubts are more or less limited to picking a set for ,and I think with this new ice fang , I might go back to heat weave , what u all think? about this and anything else really.



Dragapult @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower
- U-turn

Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Nasty Plot
- Substitute

Urshifu-Rapid-Strike @ Choice Band
Ability: Unseen Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Surging Strikes
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Aqua Jet

Zapdos @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Static
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Discharge
- Defog
- Hurricane
- Roost

Blissey (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Soft-Boiled
- Teleport

Hippowdon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Slack Off
- Stealth Rock

 

[vinicius luiggi]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1383838264-u5n4wmgl4b1cnwf3bmu15ljkjf9owz6pw quick game vs stall

 

[ironwater]

Hey vinicius luiggi, welcome to the RMT section, I’m here to rate your team and suggest changes in order to improve it.

Ghost spam is indeed a great type of team in the current OU metagame du to the lack of good Ghost resist and to the sheer power of some offensive Ghost types like Dragapult , Blacephalon , Gengar and Aegislash . If the most used duo in this kind of team seems to be Dragapult + Blacephalon, I think that Gengar is a nice choice too. Sure, Blacephalon hits a little harder and is a better wallbreaker with moves like Choice Specs Overheat having almost no switch-ins. However, Gengar has a nice niche as a setup sweeper thanks to its access to Nasty Plot. It can easily break trough more defensive builds with the combination of Nasty Plot and Substitute (and you have shown this in the replay you’ve linked). Completing your offensive core, Urshifu-R is a nice pick. It is able to pressure a lot of Ghost resists and pairs well with Dragapult as they both have U-turn to pivot out and they can deal with each other answers pretty well.

Now regarding the defensive core of the team, Zapdos + Hippowdon is a fine duo, but I really don’t think that you should use Klefki . This is because, even if its typing is great, Klefki doesn’t bring much defensive utility. It has a low bulk and struggles to heal itself properly. You surely have access to some nice support move like Spikes and Prankster Thunder Wave, but I really think that this is the member to change if you want to be more solid on the defensive side. I’ve seen in the replay you’ve linked that you tried Bisharp in that slot. Bisharp is interesting offensively here, but with only Zapdos and Hippowdon as your defensive backbone, you will be extremely weak to a lot of top OU threats. Urshifu-R will be a pain to deal with without a proper Water resist and Weavile may just instantly smack this team if Bisharp gets weakened. Moreover, as your Hippowdon is physically defensive, a lot of very common special breakers like Heatran and Dragpault may just claim a kill at each entry of the field.

Thus, even if I think the team as a great basis and some nice ideas, I would suggest some changes to rework a bit your defensive backbone and will also talk about some choices you’ve made on your set, giving suggestions and proposing changes for some of them. Let’s dive into it!


Major Changes

-> : If I understand your thoughts correctly, you’re using Klefki to act as an Ice and Dragon resist. It is indeed something you need, but I think that Tapu Fini would be way better in that role. Not only does it have a way better bulk, but it also brings way more useful resistances, in particular a Fire resistance so that you can deal with Heatran if you need to keep Hippowdon healthy, and a Water resistance so that you can deal with Urshifu-R who is a top threat right now in OU. You can use the classic Calm Set which is in my opinion a very efficient Tapu Fini set and can also give you a great late game win condition in some matchups. The set is just below:

Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 Spe
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Taunt
- Draining Kiss
- Scald


Minor Changes

: Choice Band Urshifu-R is overall way better than a Bulk Up set because you won’t be able to beat your main cheks in one vs one anyway and when the opposing team doesn’t have a good Urhsifu-R answer, you rather just score kills with a Band set than setup and be revenge kill after anyway. Moreover, the Banded version can pivot out against its counter with U-turn which greatly helps Dragapult and Gengar to come against Pokemon they can easily beat. Thus, I think you should use this set for Urshifu-R (the classic banded one):

Urshifu-Rapid-Strike @ Choice Band
Ability: Unseen Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Surging Strikes
- Close Combat
- Aqua Jet
- U-turn


: Having both Tapu Fini and Zapdos to sponge physical hits, I think you should change the spread of your Hippowdon, going from full Def to full SpD. This will greatly help to deal with special breakers like Dragapult and Heatran while still being able to completely wall Zeraora . The moveset is fine and you just need to change the spread here:

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic


: Your set is fine and Zapdos is a great bulky Flying type. I would suggest two changes, however. The first one is to try Hurricane over Heat Wave. Sure, it’s a less reliable option than Heat Wave, but it gives a strong STAB and a way to deal good damage to common switch-ins like Landorus-T and Garchomp who can be really annoying. Heat wave has some advantages, being able to hit Melmetal and to kill Kartana more reliably, so it’s up to you. The second thing is that you can change the spread, adding some Speed to outspeed Adamant Rillaboom . This used to be the classic spread of Zapdos. However, I’m sure of how useful it would be to outspeed Rillaboom, now that this Pokemon has fall down in the usage. I would say that you can implement this change if you face some Rillaboom and feel the need to outspeed them. Otherwise, I would suggest to still keep some Speed to outspeed Adamant Tapu Bulu as it is a rising threats and Stone Edge hurts a lot. 56 EVs in Speed without a Speed Boosting nature will be enough in that case.

Zapdos @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Static
EVs: 248 HP / 220 Def / 40 Spe or 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spe with a Bold Nature
Timid Nature
- Discharge
- Hurricane / Heat Wave
- Roost
- Defog

: Choice Specs Dragapult is really good currently, but you really need to have a max Speed investment, as the extra bulk doesn’t help much (you’ll take weak hits anyway and die to strong hits or super effective hits even with some more HP). Being able to tie with other Dragapult is important, especially here as you may be overwhelmed by an opposing Dragapult. Also, I find that Flamethrower is a bit better than Fire Blast as most the time it does enough damage to the Pokemon you want to catch with this move and missing a Fire Blast can cost you your Dragapult. Here is the set:

Dragapult @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Draco Meteor
- U-turn
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast


: Your set is fine and this is how Gengar should be played in my opinion. I would just suggest Focus Blast as an option over Sludge Wave for the incredible Ghost/Fighting coverage and to hit some Steel types like Melmetal and Heatran . Sludge Wave is great to beat Clefable however and your team can struggle against some Calm Mind sets so you can keep this move if you want.


That’s all for the suggestions, here is the team with all these changes, feel free to try it out or to implement some of them:

The Past

Dragapult @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Draco Meteor
- U-turn
- Flamethrower

Urshifu-Rapid-Strike @ Choice Band
Ability: Unseen Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Surging Strikes
- Close Combat
- Aqua Jet
- U-turn

Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast

Zapdos @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Static
EVs: 248 HP / 220 Def / 40 Spe
Timid Nature
- Discharge
- Hurricane
- Roost
- Defog

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic

Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 Spe
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Taunt
- Draining Kiss
- Scald

They are still some breakers like Kyurem and Specs Tapu Lele that will remain hard or even impossible to deal with defensively with this team. When you are facing one you will have to try to keep the offensive momentum, as you have tools to pressure them offensively.


I did some matches to test this new version of the team, here are two replays between 1500 and 1600 on the ladder:

Against a Sun team:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1384209426-2rg59lg6o732flifkbaxfwvq4stdip4pw

Against a pseudo-Hail/Veil offensive team:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1384212214

Hope this was helpful, have a nice day!

 

[vinicius luiggi]

This was super helpfull, I think I can understand, and agree with pretty much everything u said:

This are the ones that as I read I think "dhurr obviousIy" and are aIready impIemented.

- The speed on zapdos, definetly gonna implement, prob, enough for adamant rilaboom, as I have not yet seen a tapu-bulu, but the first is there alll the time.

- Hurricane I am very Inclined to take, prob gonna try it a bit, but I have my mind half way there in favor of it already.

- Flamethower is also going in, I don't click fireblast a lot anyway, its just for ferro, everything else I try to hit with shadowball or draco, as those are much easier to spam.

These are the ones I didn't take!

- Focus blast is awesome in gengar, but i value sludge wave for clef and mandibuzz more, and it misses, maybe with testing I change my mind, from the repIays u got its vaIues worth,

These are the ones I wiII try a bit before making a caII!

- Banded Urshifu-R, is a thing i need to try, I can see how u-turn might be the way, but I just have enjoyed a lot the sub bulk up set, it beats so much, it shouldn't, I think beeing able to pressure fini harder is big upside of the banded set tho, experimentation will solve this conflict.

- Klefki has not been putting in the work, i have Blissey over it atm, cause I didn`t want to use volcarona, and in my mind those are the 2 kyurem counters, also it gets me a ghost ressist wich I really felt I needed, specialy with the slower dragapult, I have been using dragapult/urshifu/zapdos to play arround opposing urshifu, also it deal with psychic bulky volcarona, the thing I really like about fini is the terrain my things get toxic way to much specially hippo, I also enjoy the Idea of running the trap set cause if I can catch, toxapex/blissey it open up the team a ton, so in the dispute bliseey/tapu-fini I am really unsure I Iike the suggestion and understand it but really will need to try and see as I cant make opinions atm.

- Sp Def. Hippo, Is a interesting thing to go with tapu-fini I need to run some calcs about this one, I Iike it, I see the merit of the chance, but I want to see what exactly I gain and lose, its a big consideration if I take the tapu-fini direaction.

 

[vinicius luiggi]

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