Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v5 (usage in post #547)

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1. What are you most excited to use in the new metagame?


Trick Room got so many good tools back with this DLC between OTR Magearna, Alolan Marowak now with Poltergeist, and Porygon2. I’ve been most excited to build with P2, since Teleport gives safe switchins for more fragile offensive options. Teleport does lock P2 into its hidden ability because of virtual console transfer, but so far it doesn’t seem like it’s been that big of a deal, and P2’s bulky enough to use Teleport pretty freely.
You can obtain Teleport Porygon from LGPE, which will allow it to use its better standard abilities.
 
Worth mentioning that Weavile gets triple axel. If bulbapedia's to be trusted, if all three moves make contact, Weavile can now fire off a 120 bp power move (20 + 40 + 60), which is a HUGE increase over icicle crash.

Some calcs (I put 120 bp in calc for triple axel)
Ferrothorn:
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Triple Axel vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 165-195 (46.8 - 55.3%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Weavile Triple Axel vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 220-261 (62.5 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
vs
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 118-139 (33.5 - 39.4%) -- 17.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 156-184 (44.3 - 52.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Corviknight
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Triple Axel vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 195-229 (48.7 - 57.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Weavile Triple Axel vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 258-304 (64.5 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
vs
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 136-162 (34 - 40.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 183-216 (45.7 - 54%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Clefable:
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Triple Axel vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 244-288 (61.9 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Triple Axel vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Clefable: 357-421 (90.6 - 106.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

In summary, absolutely ridiculous damage.
 
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Worth mentioning that Weavile gets triple axel. If bulbapedia's to be trusted, if all three moves make contact, Weavile can now fire off a 120 bp power move (20 + 40 + 60), which is a HUGE increase over icicle crash. Unfortunately, because it makes contact, helmet/iron barbs do a lot of damage.

Some calcs (I put 120 bp in calc for triple axel):

Ferrothorn:
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Triple Axel vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 165-195 (46.8 - 55.3%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Weavile Triple Axel vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 220-261 (62.5 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
vs
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 118-139 (33.5 - 39.4%) -- 17.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 156-184 (44.3 - 52.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Corviknight:
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Triple Axel vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 195-229 (48.7 - 57.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Weavile Triple Axel vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 258-304 (64.5 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
vs
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 136-162 (34 - 40.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 183-216 (45.7 - 54%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Clefable:
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Triple Axel vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 244-288 (61.9 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Triple Axel vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Clefable: 357-421 (90.6 - 106.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

In summary, absolutely ridiculous damage.
So we have a 120 base power physical ice move on our hand?

And of course, Kyurem doesn't learn it. But Technician Hitmontop does, neato.


I find it odd not reading anything about Grassy Slide Rillaboom. The movepower on a neutral target was equivalent to Bravebird Talonflame, which was an OU staple in past gens. Or am I misunderstanding Grassy Slide Priority?
 
Crawdaunt seems to be better now, not only his biggest competition got banned, he can deal with a lot of rising defensive and ofensive foes, like chansey, slowbro, pex, skarm, corv, hippo, Fire cinderance and volcarona. But he struggles against some mons like kommo-o and the newcommers tangrowth, amoongus and magearna(even tho neither of the three can mindless switch against a knock off/crabhammer, ane SD easily breaks amoongus)
 
1592491061005.png

As soon as I saw this things stats, I knew it would be pretty bad.
It took some of that bulk everyone loves on Slowbro and put it in the Stat no one would use.
Like, you have a signature move that uses your Special Attack and hits the opponent like it’s the move version of Download, on top of having Nasty Plot already.

1592491028144.png

I have been hearing a lot of praise from Urshifu, namely its Dark type form.
For the looks of it, Urshifu just seems like a slower, specially frail version :Terrakion: with Dark STAB and U-Turn.
That U-turn is nice utility, but regular Urshifu is nothing too special outside that.
It’s not like Terrakion doesn’t have its own utility with Stealth Rock either.
For sure it will be viable, but ultimately worse than Terrakion imo.
1592491028144.png
Rapid-Strike
Honestly I feel like Rapid-Strike is more interesting.
Water/Fighting is good defensively, and its signature move is slightly weaker than Wicked Blow, but it’s capable of breaking Focus Sash.
I say this is important since Urshifu-RS is one of the few Pokemon capable of preventing Suicide Lead Excadrill and Suicide Lead Terrakion (with Scarf of course)
I also would like to add that since these 2 moves Crit, they ignore Intimidate. And with Incineroar being the best Intimidator, Surging Strikes will be hitting Incineroar super effectively, while Wicked Blow will be resisted.
Honestly the only thing holding Rapid-Strikes back from being the superior version is :Toxapex: just like Keldeo.
Thankfully for it, it has Thunder Punch to at least do 43.4% to Toxapex.

Both were pretty disappointing, but still viable.

:Alakazam: :Gengar:
These 2 are going to be insane.
Thanks to Chansey, Gengar will be getting free switch-ins to it and can easily set up in its face, which I have talked about a lot.
Alakazam also has been dropped with Nasty Plot too, and boy is it powerful.
A +2 Life Orb boosted Psyshock, Focus Blast, and Shadow Ball rampages through pretty much the entire meta.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 464-546 (66 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 160+ SpD Mandibuzz: 282-333 (66.5 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 419-494 (106.3 - 125.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
The only defensive “stop” to this thing [Just Nasty Plot+Psyshock+Coverage] is Unaware Clefable.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Clefable: 153-183 (38.8 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
But good luck if Alakazam is running Psychic instead or lowers your SpD with Shadow Ball.
Your best bet at beating this thing is to either revenge kill it or prevent it from switching in at all (which is easy if they don’t have Alakazam, and hard if they have Clefable).
There is a reason why Mega Alakazam was quickbanned from National Dex OU recently, but regular Alakazam definitely will have a solid spot here.
Oh, and then there is Magic Guard Sash, which will allow Alakazam to always tank an attack.
Honestly I have no idea what Flinch was thinking when he said Stall was a huge winner. That is if Alakazam isn’t banned for being pretty much Psychic :Darkrai: with Magic Guard and a way to hit on the Physical side.

:Volcarona:
Volcarona is another huge threat.
Thanks to Heavy Duty Boots, team building is far less restrictive, and you don’t have to play as cautiously as before.
This is made even better with Teleport support as well.
There exists more defensive answers to Volcarona than Alakazam, but in return, less offensive answers.
Chansey and Toxapex are the ones that come to mind, although Toxapex doesn’t appreciate Psychic.
Among offensive checks, you have Swift Swimmers with Seismitoad/Drednaw/Kingdra, Excadrill in sand, priority it doesn’t resist, and scarf Meinshao/Terrakion.
Other than that, you can try to bait a Volcarona into being Knocked Off on a switch.
There is very little counterplay, and honestly I wonder who will be put on the ban chopping block first. Alakazam or Volcarona.

:Skarmory:
I talked about Skarmory before, and its new Body Press is pretty nice.
Unfortunately, Corviknight is still a lot better as a defogger and there is no reason to have Skarmory as a Hazard setter when Ferrothorn exists.
It [Skarmory’s Body Press] may do more damage than Corviknight’s, which leads to many scenarios where that extra damage means life or death, so does Corviknight’s Special Bulk, its own Brave Bird, U-turn, and even Pressure.
 
What are you most excited to use in the new metagame?
1. Slowbro, Volcarona, and Magnezone. Slowbro because, let's face it, we need Cinderace checks. Obviously Sucker Punch is guaranteed to fuck it over but otherwise, it does a darn good job at checking what it needs to check. Did I talk about Regenerator? That's really cool. Best of all, it has Teleport. This is very useful because it allows it to get out of a sticky situation with relative ease. Need I say more?

Volcarona was already scary as shit in Gen 7, but it won't need to worry about Heatran for another 5 months! (God bless, it didn't get any special Ground coverage because it would've been banned ASAP) So this means it can essentially run Psychic for Toxapex with no repercussions. HDB also makes it not weak to the R O C K S that every team has on the field at least once.

Magnezone is an interesting case. The loss of HP Fire fucks it over, but it seems interesting as to how it will fare. Keep in mind even without HP Fire Corviknight and Skarmory are auto-fried by Electric STAB, and even Scizor and Jirachi (of all things) will take huge damage from Magnezone. This is a pokemon that makes a poor first impression to many, but once you get over that, it's a fun and strong pokemon at heart.
What pre-dlc mons are expected to get hit the hardest?
Honestly, everyone saw this coming. Zeraora's viability will likely drop like an airplane on a crash course. Not only does it have to deal with Hippowdon walling it unless it runs Grass Knot, but the DLC gave it a kick in the balls in the form of Tangrowth and Amoonguss. Tangrowth hard walls it unless you have some sort of Fire-type coverage (and even then chances are it's not gonna do that much), while Amoonguss... well, let's just say the same thing here: Zeraora has no reliable way of hitting it for super effective damage.
Oh yeah, special attackers are gonna get another kick in the balls in Chansey, and, by extension, Blissey. Although Dragapult and Alakazam will eventually adapt via DD and Psyshock, respectively, Hydrei and Kyurem are the 2 unlucky ones here. They can't really run physical sets (Kyurem can run SubDD, but since when does anyone do that), so they have no way of hitting Chansey for big damage.
How do you feel about Galarian Slowbro and Urshifu?
Galarian Slowbro - This is one that honestly makes a good first impression with its good offensive stats but otherwise ends up not doing much. Contrary to popular belief, I can see this one having some actual use, but then dying down as people start to realize that outside of breaking Tangrowth and Clefable, on top of Corviknight, it doesn't do much considering its worse defensive utility.
Urushifu: I initially thought this one was gonna be TRASH. 97 speed? 60 Special Defense? Yeah. Even with that 130 attack, this pokemon made a poor first impression. However, this guy's movepool is off the charts! Close Combat (all Fighting-types must have these), Wicked Blow essentially being stronger than even Knock Off? Hell yes! Poison Jab so it isn't dead against Clefable? YES! U-turn to pivot out of sticky situations? Definitely! In short, this is a pokemon that makes a poor first impression in my eyes, but once you start using it or seeing others' opinions on it, you begin to warm up to it.
 
:talonflame:
Gale Wings is great for that last ditch Volcarona check, but it serves as a great pivot for many other mons. With the widespread of Teleport and other pivoting moves, it's really easy to bring in on whatever you need to. It can also afford to run some bulk as the only thing around that speed tier is Cinder.

All of these mons are checked by Talon (also Urshifu but no sprite):
:clefable::ferrothorn::magnezone::aegislash::conkeldurr::kommo-o::magearna::scizor::volcarona:
I've really loved using this thing on bulky offense and it's going to have some legit staying power.
 
I'm really excited for the return of magearna. It was my favorite pokemon to use in SM and I think that it probably will be S-tier is SSOU. The set I'm running is CM split with fleur cannon and tbolt with leftovers, which destroys the current balance and stall builds. It also sets up and destroys Chansey.

I also tried shift gear but I think its lackluster, (although I've been destroyed by it quite a lot). I also tried AV, but not with telewish clef yet, so I'm not going to comment on that yet. I think magearna is going to be a top 3 mon for sure.

Here's the team I am using rn https://pokepast.es/dc0574973a347ba3
 
I personally think blissy> chansey in this metagame. Here is why:

The biggest difference between chansey and blissy is chansey's slightly superior stats due to eviolite. If eviolite gets knocked off, blissy becomes much more frail compared to blissy. In this meta-game, knock off is literally everywhere on super common mons such as ferro, clef, mandibuzz, mew, and toad (yes I know there are other mons such as conk, but no reaosnable player would leave a chansey in on conk). Knock off will cripple a chansey much more than a blissy

There are three huge weaknesses for these mons
1) Physical attacks (duh)
2) Status
3) Hazzards

Again addressing the first point, no one should leave one of these mons in on a physical attacker. For my second point, both of these mons get natural cure so status is not a complete hinderance. The third point is my most important as to why blissy is better than chansey. These mons get majorly cripples by spikes + stealth rocks. Blissy can afford to run HDBs to completely ignore these huge issues with these mons, however chansey is forced to run eviolite to even compete with blissy.

This is just my opinion and lmk what you think about the blissy v. chansey viability in the meta-game.
 

Ema Skye

Work!
is a Pre-Contributor
Magnezone is an interesting case. The loss of HP Fire fucks it over, but it seems interesting as to how it will fare. Keep in mind even without HP Fire Corviknight and Skarmory are auto-fried by Electric STAB, and even Scizor and Jirachi (of all things) will take huge damage from Magnezone. This is a pokemon that makes a poor first impression to many, but once you get over that, it's a fun and strong pokemon at heart.
Adding on to this, Magnezone can be a check to Magearna as well if it doesn't run Fighting coverage. Zone resists everything else. Gear has to choose between Fighting (to beat Ferro) or Electric (to beat Pex) coverage to compliment its STABs, and those that pick Electric just get stuffed by Zone. I found this out the hard way trying to sweep with Shift Gear with Electro Ball.

Galarian Slowbro - This is one that honestly makes a good first impression with its good offensive stats but otherwise ends up not doing much. Contrary to popular belief, I can see this one having some actual use, but then dying down as people start to realize that outside of breaking Tangrowth and Clefable, on top of Corviknight, it doesn't do much considering its worse defensive utility.
Slowbro-Galar @ Life Orb
Modest Nature
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
- Psychic
- Shell Side Arm
- Fire Blast
- Hydro Pump

(Set is likely not optimized yet but it's a start.)

I initially dismissed this one because of the regular Slowbro hype. However, Galar Slowbro has the incredible ability of just breaking every fat Pokemon core right now, except for Chansey. You already covered Tangrowth and Clef, who can't take Shell Side Arm. Psychic has a chance of OHKOing Pex, and is guaranteed after Rocks. Fire Blast does over 70% to max SpD Corv, and obviously nukes Ferrothorn. Hydro Pump is only for Hippo, and it has a chance of OHKOing Hippo (70% chance after Rocks). The only thing you can't deal with is AV Magearna, but it still has to take 40% every time it takes a Fire Blast, and it really can't hit you either.
 
Hello everyone.

1592502584410.png

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 76 HP / 12 Atk / 252 SpD / 168 Spe
Careful Nature
- Fire Punch / Flare Blitz
- Pain Split
- Shadow Bone / Poltergeist
- Stealth Rock / Will-O-Wisp

This is a set I've been having a little bit of fun with as of late, reason being that it is a hard counter for Magearna, and can tank any hit from an unboosted or +1 Magearna and severely dent and / or ko back. EV's may look a little weird but they are designed to outspeed uninvested Magearna and to 2HKO bulky volcarona in a pinch with shadow bone. It also functions as a nice answer to Rotom-Heat and can beat most cinderace variants, including sucker punch with correct prediction.
I'm aware that this is probably not it's best set and that it is usually better suited to TR, but this is a really nice "fuck you" to Magearna, who seems to be everywhere ̶p̶l̶s̶ ̶b̶a̶n̶ ̶n̶o̶w̶ while providing sizeable utility in the form of a rotom heat check, a situational Cinderace check and Stealth Rocks.

Also yay FWG cores are back!
 
I personally think blissy> chansey in this metagame. Here is why:

The biggest difference between chansey and blissy is chansey's slightly superior stats due to eviolite. If eviolite gets knocked off, blissy becomes much more frail compared to blissy. In this meta-game, knock off is literally everywhere on super common mons such as ferro, clef, mandibuzz, mew, and toad (yes I know there are other mons such as conk, but no reaosnable player would leave a chansey in on conk). Knock off will cripple a chansey much more than a blissy

There are three huge weaknesses for these mons
1) Physical attacks (duh)
2) Status
3) Hazzards

Again addressing the first point, no one should leave one of these mons in on a physical attacker. For my second point, both of these mons get natural cure so status is not a complete hinderance. The third point is my most important as to why blissy is better than chansey. These mons get majorly cripples by spikes + stealth rocks. Blissy can afford to run HDBs to completely ignore these huge issues with these mons, however chansey is forced to run eviolite to even compete with blissy.

This is just my opinion and lmk what you think about the blissy v. chansey viability in the meta-game.
I agree with your points and would like to add in how screwed Chansey is against it nemesis Gengar along with Aegislash, Chandelure, Dragapult, Polteagiest, and Mimikyu, while Blissey can blast them with Shadow Ball, but I do not agree with your conclusion.

Chansey overall is still better thanks to her bulk with Eviolite.
Yeah it can be knocked off and Trick is as viable as it was in Gen 5, but that only happens when Chansey faces something with Knock Off, which most Special Attackers won’t have.
I think it will be a matter of preference and as time goes, Blissey will be close behind Chansey when people realize its niches over Chansey.
 
A moment of silence, for all the Pokemon in the pre-DLC OU metagame that are simply not good in OU anymore due to this massive metagame shift.

:tyranitar: Today we say goodbye to a legend. Tyranitar's day has come and gone, and the record spanning, absolutely dominant OU streak is broken. Hippowdon's gaining of the new Ground type Scald, Scorching Sands, further adds to its increasing list of reasons to use it. Whereas Tyranitar's gaining of absolutely nothing means it still doesn't have any great answers to the current metagame. Maybe if it was a Ground type and not a Rock type it might have a viable Special set cooking, or maybe if it had a better speed tier a Scarf set might be more optimal... but that all just feels like a stretch to make a Pokemon beaten down by the dominant Clefable and Gamefreak's nerfs feel more useful than it actually is.

:hatterene: Sorry Hat. Alakazam returning means that its role as a special attacking, stall smashing deity are over for good. Magic Guard is so much better than Magic Bounce for a number of reasons, and not being forced into using Nasty Plot the turn it comes in is so much better than Hat's inability to get something done without setup. It pains me to say it, but its usage is gonna drop off a cliff. I'll still argue that it's the best TR setter in the meta right now, so on those niche teams, it'll exist.

:seismitoad: Already on the decline due to the Dracovish ban, Slowbro returning makes it even less optimal as a defensive Water. While Swift Swim might see a rise thanks to Kingdra returning and Flip Turn making rain offense much more viable, I doubt it will last in the tier.

:mimikyu: I feel like Mimikyu would definitely have been saved if it got the excellent new move Poltergiest. But... nope. And as it stands, as a physical Ghost, it's going to be outclassed as physical Dragapult rises to combat Chansey. And as a physical Fairy, Azumarill's return also fully outclasses it.

:pangoro: It feels like only yesterday we were having a discussion on how Pangoro was viable in OU to a degree. Good times. But Urshifu is not only also a Fighting/Dark panda bear, it's a Fighting/Dark panda bear with better stats across the entire board.

Pangoro stats: 95/124/78/69/71/58

Urshifu stats: 100/130/100/63/60/97

Even Parting Shot, Pangoro's advantage over Urshifu, is not even close to a selling point, thanks to Urshifu's Unseen Fist allowing U-Turn to bypass Protect. And if you were to try and capitalize on Pangoro's higher SpD for an AV set, you wouldn't be able to use it anyways.

If I missed any, let me know. But its my guess that their usage is gonna drop off a cliff.
 

Finchinator

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OU & NU Leader
  1. What are you most excited to use in the new metagame?
  2. What pre-dlc mons are expected to get hit the hardest?
  3. What pre-dlc mons are expected to benefit the most or see a rise in viability?
  4. How do you feel about Galarian Slowbro and Urshifu?
  5. What do you believe will be overhyped and what will die down after being given the "new toy" treatment?
1. Banning Volcarona Abusing some of my favorite historic offensive threats like Magearna and Alakazam. Both offer a pretty unique set of offensive tools that will help change the metagame. I am curious to see how Alakazam makes use of Nasty Plot and Magearna makes use of Stored Power in particular!

2. Zeraora. It takes a big hit here due to encountering new counters like Amoonguss and Tangrowth. Corviknight also gets a little worse as it is now trappable by Magnezone and facing competition with Skarmory, but at least SDef variants are cool for Alakazam!

3. Keldeo can at least pull off choice sets thanks to Flip Turn and good ol' Scarf Stone Edge nails Volcarona at least. Gengar can abuse Chansey being incapable of touching it. Pelipper can see more usage due to Rain benefitting from Flip Turn Waters (Barraskewda in particular), Kingdra, Azumarill, and even Poliwrath.

4. Galarian Slowbro will probably be a cool pick in UU or RU depending on where it settles, but Urshifu is great. The Dark variant is going to stay OU and probably be an A tier threat for months to come. The Water type variant is less effective and may drop to UU or UUBL eventually as it is naturally walled pretty easily.

5. Urshifu-Rapid-Strike, Marowak-Alola, and Heracross may see usage early on that will ultimately die down as the metagame ettles.
 

Poliwrath @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Waterfall
- Drain Punch
- Darkest Lariat

Had a blast using this yesterday together with Damp Rock Pelipper.
+6 252+ Atk Poliwrath Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 267-315 (66 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Tangrowth Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Poliwrath: 192-228 (59.8 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Haven't even tested Life Orb, Ice Punch (Lariat is for Dragapult), or High Horsepower, all of which have a lot of potential.
 

Ema Skye

Work!
is a Pre-Contributor
Wanted to throw a quick mention for CounterSash Alakazam, one of my favorites from BW2. Solid emergency check to things like Hawlucha, or Single Strike Urshifu, and it can get in some chip on Volc (who, imo, is the best mon in the tier right now).
 
Slowbro-Galar @ Life Orb
Modest Nature
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
- Psychic
- Shell Side Arm
- Fire Blast
- Hydro Pump
I agree with your analysis, and feel like it’s very underrated thanks to everyone being focused on regular Slowbro now having Telerator/Regeneport (Teleport + Regenerator). From what I’ve seen testing G-Slowbro so far, it is absolutely a special wallbreaker. If you’d like even more longevity, I would swap out Hydro Pump for Slack Off, then pack Grassy Surge Rillaboom for Hippowdon.

This is just a “me” thing, but if you wanted to pack Wishport Clef and Rillaboom for partners for it, then you could opt for Quick Draw instead of Regenerator to potentially catch offensive mons off guard. Yes, I know Regenerator is the better abikity overall, was just listing that as another option if you have no shortage of healing sources.
 
Something I haven't seen suggested yet is Metronome Urshifu Rapid-Strike. Metronome is usually unviable, but Urshifu's moves ignore protection, making it able to viably use Metronome.
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike @ Metronome
Ability: Unseen Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 16 SpD / 240 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Surging Strikes
- Drain Punch
- Thunder Punch
Urshifu-RS will likely be inferior to Regular Urshifu, but I think it will have a serious niche in OU as a metronome stallbreaker. It gets ThunderPunch for Pex, Drain Punch for longevity, and Water Coverage is quite spammable in general, especially given that Seismitoad will likely drop to UU. It will definitely require team support to remove Tangrowth, but I think it can be a valuable addition to a team.
 
Hello everyone.

View attachment 255399
Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 76 HP / 12 Atk / 252 SpD / 168 Spe
Careful Nature
- Fire Punch / Flare Blitz
- Pain Split
- Shadow Bone / Poltergeist
- Stealth Rock / Will-O-Wisp

This is a set I've been having a little bit of fun with as of late, reason being that it is a hard counter for Magearna, and can tank any hit from an unboosted or +1 Magearna and severely dent and / or ko back. EV's may look a little weird but they are designed to outspeed uninvested Magearna and to 2HKO bulky volcarona in a pinch with shadow bone. It also functions as a nice answer to Rotom-Heat and can beat most cinderace variants, including sucker punch with correct prediction.
I'm aware that this is probably not it's best set and that it is usually better suited to TR, but this is a really nice "fuck you" to Magearna, who seems to be everywhere ̶p̶l̶s̶ ̶b̶a̶n̶ ̶n̶o̶w̶ while providing sizeable utility in the form of a rotom heat check, a situational Cinderace check and Stealth Rocks.

Also yay FWG cores are back!
SpDef Alolan Marowak was one of my favorite niche mons back in early S/M, glad to see it here too!

An alternate spread is EVs: 252 HP / 128 SpD / 128 Spe, as 128 Speed EVS hits 158 speed which lets you outspeed the AV Magearna (Sassy with 36 speed) and anything under (Clefable is just under that). Using Poltergeist means that max PhysDef Volcarona is still 2HKO'd, so no attack investment needed otherwise you might as well go with a more standard spread. Poltergeist is also nice for avoiding Rocky Helmet damage from Slowbro/Ferro/Tangrowth. The rest of the EVs maximize overall bulk and let A-Marowak be a better check to Cinderace (although Banded Sucker still has a ~43% chance to OHKO from full).

I think Toxic is probably better than Wisp-Hippo and Mandibuzz hate both, but Toxic is more useful for the rest of the team (and you're forced out anyways). It also gives a way to play around Cinderace's Sucker Punch that's a bit more reliable than Wisp IMO. Toxic might even be better than Stealth Rock since common hazard removers like Excadrill and Mandibuzz can force out Marowak (although Drill has a tough time coming in).

Pain Split is cool, but I think this set still wants to be paired with Wish support-Vaporeon is actually a great partner that synergizes well in terms of typing and can slow WishPass with Flip Turn. This core would need answers to Urshifu though and Dark types/Knock Off in general, and good hazard control (Mandibuzz is a solid partner).
 
Something I haven't seen suggested yet is Metronome Urshifu Rapid-Strike. Metronome is usually unviable, but Urshifu's moves ignore protection, making it able to viably use Metronome.
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike @ Metronome
Ability: Unseen Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 16 SpD / 240 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Surging Strikes
- Drain Punch
- Thunder Punch
Urshifu-RS will likely be inferior to Regular Urshifu, but I think it will have a serious niche in OU as a metronome stallbreaker. It gets ThunderPunch for Pex, Drain Punch for longevity, and Water Coverage is quite spammable in general, especially given that Seismitoad will likely drop to UU. It will definitely require team support to remove Tangrowth, but I think it can be a valuable addition to a team.
While likely not the optimal set, you are correct in saying Urshifu bypasses the one issue that Metronome has in that Protect resets the boosts. Tang and Seis are dumb to deal with for this set specifically, and Band/Scarf/LO/even AV I guess are probs better sets, but I like this train of thought.
 
Something I haven't seen suggested yet is Metronome Urshifu Rapid-Strike. Metronome is usually unviable, but Urshifu's moves ignore protection, making it able to viably use Metronome.
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike @ Metronome
Ability: Unseen Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 16 SpD / 240 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Surging Strikes
- Drain Punch
- Thunder Punch
Urshifu-RS will likely be inferior to Regular Urshifu, but I think it will have a serious niche in OU as a metronome stallbreaker. It gets ThunderPunch for Pex, Drain Punch for longevity, and Water Coverage is quite spammable in general, especially given that Seismitoad will likely drop to UU. It will definitely require team support to remove Tangrowth, but I think it can be a valuable addition to a team.
I think Waterfall or Liquidation would be better on a Metronome set over Surging Strikes. They have higher PP (24 for Waterfall, 16 for Liquidation) and the flinch / defense drop would help in breaking through Toxapex without Thunder Punch.
 
Hey, not posting that much on the forum but i think than with the rise in power of stall, i really think than this set of Dragapult is a Stallkiller.


Dragapult @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Darts
- Phantom Force
- Substitute

Since the pratically sure rise in usage of chansey, she become a complete setup fogger for him, et i don't see reliable answer at this except maybe mimikyu (which is note a staple for stall at the late news) with his ability, and corviknight phisacally defensive. Unaware clefable take 50% even with max def.

Sorry for the english.
 
So I made a team real quick with some of the new additions.
:Rillaboom:
Remember Bravest Bird in Gen 6? Well Rillaboom has an even stronger Brave Bird than the Bravest Bird with Grassy Glide.
252 Atk Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew in Grassy Terrain: 145-172 (35.8 - 42.5%) -- 94.5% chance to 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252 Atk Gale Wings Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 144-169 (35.6 - 41.8%) -- 84.8% chance to 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
This move is ridiculous.
It has the same Base Power as Sucker Punch, but the condition is to be under a terrain that powers up the move. Effectively, Rillaboom has a 91 BP Priority move.
Oh, and it has the benefit of beating past Psychic Terrain as well, as if this wasn’t a good priority move already. It does this since Rillaboom switching in replaces Psychic Terrain with Grassy Terrain, and then when Psychic Terrain comes in on the switch, it will stop being a priority move and hit anyways (although I’m not 100% sure about that).
Psychic Terrain removal will also be pretty good since Male Indeedee now receives Expanding Force.
Wood Hammer under Grassy Terrain is a fantastic option for hitting the slower Pokemon with. It also is effectively a stronger Head Smash with less Recoil. When you are dunking Chansey, it’s good to know you’ll only receive 68% recoil, and not 103%.
Lastly, Acrobatics on can make good work of bulk Grassy types such as Tangrowth that otherwise wall Rillaboom. Thanks to Grassy Seed, Rillaboom not only gets a Def boost when switching in the first time, but also powers up Acrobatics. It also prevents Ferrothorn from stone walling Rillaboom, as well as prevents Volcarona from getting a free switch onto Rillaboom too.
:Talonflame:
From Bravest Bird to Talonflame in previous Generations, Talonflame will be happy to see some loving this Generation.
With Heavy-Duty Boots, Talonflame now avoids its biggest weakness from Gen 6 and its biggester weakness in Gen 7, Stealth Rock.
No longer does Talonflame take 50% from just switching in, but now it will always keep its wings, reframing from being just Fire type Swellow.
Also, thanks to the DLC, Talonflame now has 2 new options in Flying Spam... I mean STAB, with Dual Wingbeat and Hurricane.
This is absolutely crucial since Talonflame is one of the few stops to Volcarona and Alakazam. Neither liking DW (and Dual Wingbeat is somewhat needed for Volcarona since Hurricane doesn’t KO Volcarona even without Quiver Dancing).
Talonflame is also excellent at controlling Hazards. Fire Blast does a lot to Corviknight/Corvilight, Ferrothorn, Excadrill (where Suicide Lead variants now have to run a rock move to beat Talonflame), and Hurricane does a lot to Kommo-o.
If Stealth Rock is set up, Talonflame can just defog them away too.
Talonflame also can deal with Amoongus and Tangrowth for Rillaboom.
:Clefable:
This is a slight deviation from typical WishPass Clefable as instead of Protect, it has Stealth Rock.
The thought process being that I’m mostly using Clefable to Teleport in the frailer Pokemon such as Talonflame and Alakazam, and passing Wish is just as added bonus.
It doesn’t do much else for the team, but that role is very spicy. Fittingly, it’s the only Pokemon without a change.
:Alakazam:
This thing is unfucking wallable.
Thanks to the new addition of Nasty Plot, Alakazam’s absurd power level reaches new bounds.
I checked. Literally the only defensive “counterplay” is to use Unaware Pyukumuku and Unaware Clefable, but they have to be Psychically Bulky against Psyshock variants or Specially Bulky to beat Psychic variants.
And then there is also Expanding Force, which can kill fuck anything that isn’t a Dark type, a different Terrain setter, Chansey, and x4 resists.
This version however is Sub, NP, Psyshock, and Dazzling Gleam.
Sub is important since the only real counterplay to Alakazam is revenge killing it. Under Sub, Alakazam won’t worry about any attack as it proceeds to destroy your opponent’s team, with the exception if Dragon Darts and Dual Wingbeat, but only Dragon Dart’s second hit can KO Alakazam.
As for coverage, Psyshock evaporates Chansey and anything that isn’t Dark or Steel.
Dazzling Gleam evaporates all the Dark types then, leaving only Steel types to wall it.
Thankfully, we got Magnezone, which eliminates those remaining steel types.
:Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: (Hopefully this gets added soon. And if you wondered how to get the little sprites, now you know).
Anyways, Urshifu-RS has the advantage over its sibling with Surging Strikes.
This move allows Urshifu to be the best answer to Suicide Leads in Terrakion and Excadrill, as this move hits them super effectively AND breaks Sash.
This is also an example of another Pokemon capable of breaking past Alakazam’s Sub, and it can also get the jump on Volcarona if Volcarona is Modest. Surging Strikes also has the advantage of being Anti-Incineroar, as it always crits and hits Incineroar super effectively.
Close Combat is standard for most Fighting types, and it also helps with Ferrothorn.
Thunder Punch hits bulky waters super effectively.
U-turn then helps keep momentum, as Urshifu is hard hitting and has decent physical bulk.
:Magnezone:
THE Steel remover is back, but it’s not as welcomed as before.
With Hidden Power being gone, it no longer can be as effective against Ferrothorn as before.
“B-But what about Body Press?”
On Magnezone, Body Press sucks. At least for Specs.
With Specs, you’ll be doing MORE with Thunderbolt than Body Press, even with a decent chunk of investment.
172 Def Magnezone Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 90-108 (25.5 - 30.6%) -- 1.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Ferrothorn: 106-126 (30.1 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Iron Defense+Body Press may be Magnezone’s only way of beating Ferrothorn “cleanly”, but then it’s useless outside of that.
In case you were wondering, the 84 Speed comes from outspeeding uninvested Skarmory, which is one of the fastest of the bulky Steel types.
The rest are put into SpA to maximize Thunderbolt, Flash Cannon, and Volt Switch Damage.
The rest are dumped into Atk to maximize Explosion’s Damage without cutting into SpA.
Honestly can’t think of any other move for Specs Magnezone besides these 4, and Explosion is more for the Utility of preventing Defog or exploding on an oncoming check like Volcarona once the Steels are removed/weakened.
Rising Voltage would be cool, but there isn’t a good Electric Surge Pokemon available that you’ll see in OU. Also on the brightside, Heatran isn’t available, so it doesn’t need to decide between HP Fire or HP Ground.
Regardless, even with Magnezone’s nerfs, it’s still vital for many teams.
 
At this point I have seen a lot of talk about individual mons that people are excited about trying, but a lack when it comes to cores. With this in mind I want to talk about a handful of cores that I'm excited to try building with as I start to mess around with the DLC. Being the like whore I am this post will consist of 3 cores I have in mind + some analysis breaking down why I'm interested in them/how they'll work, and I'll be posting again in the near future with the resulting teams I come up with.


I don't plan on linking sets for any of these since I'm still a bit undecided, but the idea of this core is Nasty Plot Alakazam + AV Magearna. Alakazam gained Nasty Plot this generation, and looks deadly vs a lot of common defensive mons. Even being able to 2HKO Chansey with Psyshock at +2 if you're Life Orb. Needless to say Alakazam will be an incredibly strong offensive force in the metagame going forward. After deciding I wanted to use Alakazam on one of these first attempt at building the meta teams I immideately decided on pairing it with AV Magearna. Magearna provides Volt Switch to help get Zam into the game easier, and it helps check a lot of pokemon that threaten Zam like Mandibuzz, Dragapult, and more offensive dark types that might be willing to risk Focus Blast later into the game like a Hydreigon. AV Magearna also helps wear down opposing Magearna, who is one of the better Zam checks in the metagame. The core struggles with Aegislash, but that's not the biggest issue in the world given the team has 4 more slots to help patch that weakness (just something that needs to be kept in mind through the building process). Anyways, this feels like what will become a pretty cookie cutter offensive pairing to me, and am excited to see Zam have a chance at returning to prominence after a long break from the OU spotlight.


Everyone is excited/fearing the influx of Regenerator Pokemon brought with the DLC. The most prominent being Slowbro and Tangrowth. Tangrowth is an exciting addition as it provides the tier with a really solid bulky Grass-type, which helps it immediately become on of the best Zeraora answers in the meta. Slowbro returns as a bulky water with access to everyone's favorite new move of the generation: Teleport, which coupled with Regen allows Slowbro to pivot around effectively while also keeping its HP up. That said I don't want to make use of Teleport Slowbro, almost simply because I feel like it's what everyone is going to be running. Instead I want to mess around Thunder Wave Slowbro, combined with Sleep Powder Tang + Hex Pult giving a solid team foundation. Slowbro and Tangrowth provide the team with a strong start defensively, and HexPult is one of my favorite mons this meta that I feel will really enjoy these two spreading status. Especially with Tangrowth being such a strong Zeraora check I don't have to fear it being the one non-scarfer my Pult has to be afraid of.


This core more comes down to using two broken Pokemon that seem like they would compliment each other fairly well. Single Strike Urshifu has shown to be very strong in the 1 day it has been legal with a powerful Wicked Blow + CC combination. It applies a lot pressure on Pokemon like Toxapex and Chansey that give Shift Gear Magearna (Yeah this will be Shift Gear) a lot of trouble. The team will probably be more offensive in nature, since I think the strength of these two mons is to great to not work out. There honestly isn't that much else to say, these are two Pokemon that will seemingly be top tier threats in the meta, and I'm interested in seeing how well they work together.
 
2 things I'm excited for this generation: Trick Room and Rain.

With Trick Room, we needed up getting arguably the best OTR mon (and possibly all of OU) right now in the form of Magearna. Even thought it lost the Z-move slot this gen, I think it finally gives Trick Room the much needed offensive power that doesn't require massive momentum wasted on setup. Alolan Marowak seems to fit the OTR archetype because of its great typing (especially Ghost). Don't even get me started with Poltergeist, where in a metagame where the fatter mons relying on their items allows it to punish with massive damage with a small accuracy setback. Finally, Teleport/Trick Room Porygon just sounds amazing as it doesn't have to be passive burning TR turns anymore.

As for Rain, Kingdra + Hurricane means that Rain matchups vs fat grass mons (cough cough Tangrowth) now need to pivoted carefully. Poliwrath is a cool SS user with a great move pool but lacks the initial power that Mega Swampert had. Perphaps STAB + Rain Urishifu might do the trick due to its access to Aqua Jet/Surging Strikes? Maybe not, but its worth a try. Of course there's Toxapex + Ferrothorn which usually wall Rain teams.
 
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