You need Recover to stay healthy for Spectrier and Ice Beam for Landorus and TR and Teleport are obvious, so yeah no room at all. I actually had to start teleporting into Focus Sash Alakazam with Encore for everything that likes to setup substitute.
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Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #3539)
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
I would run Fire Blast on Volc since the power drop from rain will be noticeable and otherwise Ferrothorn will give you a hard time
Here's a core I like to call "I dream of a stable metagame":
Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Damp
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Flip Turn
- Earthquake
- Body Press
Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 28 Def / 228 SpD
Careful Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- U-turn
- Brave Bird
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Teleport
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Protect
The amount of synergy these three have is great. Pert counters Eleki for Corvi and beats Poison-types for Clef while also setting Rocks, Corvi counters Rillaboom for Pert and walls opposing Steels for Clef while also keeping opposing rocks off the field, and Clef keeps Pert healthy with Wish and absorbs status for Corvi. And did I mention all three have a slow pivoting move they can use to bring the others in safely?
If it weren't for all the broken shit that can pretty much brute-force their way past it (looking at you, Zygarde), this would likely be a top core in the meta. As it stands now, it's just... good.
Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Damp
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Flip Turn
- Earthquake
- Body Press
Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 28 Def / 228 SpD
Careful Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- U-turn
- Brave Bird
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Teleport
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Protect
The amount of synergy these three have is great. Pert counters Eleki for Corvi and beats Poison-types for Clef while also setting Rocks, Corvi counters Rillaboom for Pert and walls opposing Steels for Clef while also keeping opposing rocks off the field, and Clef keeps Pert healthy with Wish and absorbs status for Corvi. And did I mention all three have a slow pivoting move they can use to bring the others in safely?
If it weren't for all the broken shit that can pretty much brute-force their way past it (looking at you, Zygarde), this would likely be a top core in the meta. As it stands now, it's just... good.
How reliably does it wall physical attackers with that setup when you don't get a flame body burn? Ive been loving Moltres in this meta, but Ive been using a setup with bold nature and significant def evs and significantly less speed. I haven't really experimented much with different spreads though and have just been rolling with the generic one I started with. I'd be interested with trying different options.
My favorite of the bunch, Moltres got two big buffs in Scorching Sands to directly hit Heatran, instead of relying on PP stall, and of course HDB to avoid hazards. The absolute biggest benefit of this mon is that its a defogger that actually forces out and defogs on Heatran, which is definitely not something you'll find in other mon besides sets that exist to counter 2-3 mons like Spdef Dragonite. Especially with Gliscor not existing, this is extremely valuable and unique by itself, but of course that's not all Moltres does. Flame Body Punishes U-turns, which is always good, Pressure PP stalls Heatran to really lock it down for Stall-y teams, Flamethrower torches everything but Dragons and Waters, Scorching Sands spreads annoying burns to said bulky waters and hits Grounded Fires hard, and Defog allows you to capitalize on forcing out Rocker Heatran.Moltres @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body/Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 56 SpA / 84 SpD / 120 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scorching Sands
- Flamethrower
- Defog/U-turn
- Roost
The spread listed is what I arrived at as the most helpful, as it allows you to 2hko Spdef Heatran with Scorching Sands with rocks up (50% without), OHKO and outspeed Ada Rillaboom 87.5% of the time, 2hko +1 Offensive Magearna with rocks up (50%~ without) and the leftovers EVs are dumped into Spdef to live 1 +2 offensive Torn-T Hurricane 80%+ of the time. This mon checks Blaziken, SD Kart (though losing boots is super crippling so I wouldn't rely on it) SD Rillaboom, Heatran, non Rock Slide Drill, and Pheromosa.
It probably won't not stay OU or anything but its a pretty unique mon that I can see fitting specific builds quite well.
Part of me dies each time my supposed Landorus check gets blown up by random coverage. Delete him plz.
I agree that Kyu-B was more of a problem, but it's also that much harder to get value out of: Kyu-B needs to get in on something that can't threaten its setup, and while the list of things that can reliably wall it is low, its 95 base speed and poor defensive type lets a lot of things roll over it and do a solid before it can get a DD off - many of those same pokemon will also live a boosted hit. Also, it's susceptible to revenge kills after 1 DD by most scarfers (and if you let it get 2 DDs then that's on you). It's definitely not easy to play against, as any misplay could potentially let it in and let it setup and win, but with good play it can be dealt with.
Naga's defensive checks are definitely a lot better at walling it than Kyu-B's are, but thanks to its amazing speed and immediate power, only a small handful of pokemon are able to threaten it when it comes in. Also, Beast Boost makes it near impossible to revenge kill, essentially requiring either a scarf Pult/Spectrier or a strong priority user (and its 4x Grass resistance doesn't help in that case). While I personally still think Kyu-B was a stronger pokemon overall, I think Naga was banned first because it's far more restrictive on the builder, essentially mandating one of 5 pokemon to not get completely rolled (heatran, ttar, blissey, scarfpult, scarfspect).
imo Naga and Genesect were definitely the most problematic, but that doesn’t change the fact that there are still some broken mons left in the tier.
It’s just too much imo. Earth power is a given on any set but after that it can literally run any move and muscle through entire teams. As previously mentioned, Gravity makes the few mons that would reliably check it like SpDef Corv just die, it has U-turn, Toxic and Knock to also play around and cripple checks, CM and Rock Polish to get even more strong, Stealth Rock if your team needs it, and then a large pool of coverage like Rock Slide, Psychic, Sludge Wave, Focus Blast, and it doesn’t have 4MSS really because it just runs its customized coverage, spreads, and options that work best. Really stupid tbh and even though it isn’t Ash-Gren 2.0 or U-turn: The Pokémon like the recent bans, it still is too much.
It kinda sits on anything it wants to and deletes teams. Eleki really helps it out by baiting in setup fodder for it. Roost, HDB, and its bulk let it stick around for way longer than an offensive mon like it should, plus it has any coverage it wants and the ability to set up for almost free. Customizable and scary as crap to face down. Really broken as well atm imo.
With brute force, it plows through anything it really wants to. TArrows+Glare is a recipe for killing anything that doesn’t check it or does check it by forcing lame situations with free paralysis. Sub helps it eat hits and can force a sack just to maybe kill it. Coil raises its already crazy bulk and attack power to obliterate stall and balance, DD makes it faster and stronger to destroy offense in general. ESpeed also is great priority that helps bolster CB sets to unreasonably strong levels for the tier. Customizable just like the others, can’t really handle all the sets with any one mon.
Jury is still out on Pheremosa and Blaziken. Probably also too much for the tier.
It’s just too much imo. Earth power is a given on any set but after that it can literally run any move and muscle through entire teams. As previously mentioned, Gravity makes the few mons that would reliably check it like SpDef Corv just die, it has U-turn, Toxic and Knock to also play around and cripple checks, CM and Rock Polish to get even more strong, Stealth Rock if your team needs it, and then a large pool of coverage like Rock Slide, Psychic, Sludge Wave, Focus Blast, and it doesn’t have 4MSS really because it just runs its customized coverage, spreads, and options that work best. Really stupid tbh and even though it isn’t Ash-Gren 2.0 or U-turn: The Pokémon like the recent bans, it still is too much.
It kinda sits on anything it wants to and deletes teams. Eleki really helps it out by baiting in setup fodder for it. Roost, HDB, and its bulk let it stick around for way longer than an offensive mon like it should, plus it has any coverage it wants and the ability to set up for almost free. Customizable and scary as crap to face down. Really broken as well atm imo.
With brute force, it plows through anything it really wants to. TArrows+Glare is a recipe for killing anything that doesn’t check it or does check it by forcing lame situations with free paralysis. Sub helps it eat hits and can force a sack just to maybe kill it. Coil raises its already crazy bulk and attack power to obliterate stall and balance, DD makes it faster and stronger to destroy offense in general. ESpeed also is great priority that helps bolster CB sets to unreasonably strong levels for the tier. Customizable just like the others, can’t really handle all the sets with any one mon.
Jury is still out on Pheremosa and Blaziken. Probably also too much for the tier.
Kyu-B is definitely a huge threat, after it got Physical Ice Stab, DD, and a buff with HDB, it can mow through offensive teams given good play and mow through defensive teams by literally just clicking moves.
However, there is one pokemon who I believe to be more problematic: Landorus - Incarnate.
Before this DLC, I didn't have much experience with Lando-I. I thought to myself, "this sure looks like a problematic mon, but it's a special attacker so just slap Blissey in front of it?" Nah, Focus Blast is a 2HKO on Blissey more than 70% of the time. A special move 2HKOing Blissey. That's not something you see every day. Plus, the combination of Earth Power and Sludge Wave (both boosted by sheer force) under gravity is very close to unresisted. Anyways, there are no Bug-Ghost types in OU. So Lando-I can click gravity and all of a sudden nothing walls it, assuming 4th move Focus Blast for a smack on TTar and to 2HKO Blissey. But wait, there's more! You end up encountering a different set, Rock Polish, that outspeeds your rain kingdra. Oops! 6-0'd. In my opinion this thing was powerful enough to where I wouldn't contest to it being banned in the first wave, but Genesect and Naganadel were definitely too powerful anyways, and we all know this thing is eventually gonna end up banned. For mons like Blaziken, Zygarde, Lando-I, and Kyu-B, it's safe to assume they will be banned anyways.
That aside, I haven't heard too much talk about Magearna. Is it still as unwallable as always?
However, there is one pokemon who I believe to be more problematic: Landorus - Incarnate.
Before this DLC, I didn't have much experience with Lando-I. I thought to myself, "this sure looks like a problematic mon, but it's a special attacker so just slap Blissey in front of it?" Nah, Focus Blast is a 2HKO on Blissey more than 70% of the time. A special move 2HKOing Blissey. That's not something you see every day. Plus, the combination of Earth Power and Sludge Wave (both boosted by sheer force) under gravity is very close to unresisted. Anyways, there are no Bug-Ghost types in OU. So Lando-I can click gravity and all of a sudden nothing walls it, assuming 4th move Focus Blast for a smack on TTar and to 2HKO Blissey. But wait, there's more! You end up encountering a different set, Rock Polish, that outspeeds your rain kingdra. Oops! 6-0'd. In my opinion this thing was powerful enough to where I wouldn't contest to it being banned in the first wave, but Genesect and Naganadel were definitely too powerful anyways, and we all know this thing is eventually gonna end up banned. For mons like Blaziken, Zygarde, Lando-I, and Kyu-B, it's safe to assume they will be banned anyways.
That aside, I haven't heard too much talk about Magearna. Is it still as unwallable as always?
Here's a core that's a ton of fun to use:
Ninetales-Alola @ Light Clay
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aurora Veil
- Freeze-Dry
- Hail
- Encore
Thundurus-Therian (M) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Agility
- Thunderbolt
- Weather Ball
Ninetales sets Aurora Veil as usual, but Thundurus-T in particular has great synergy with Ninetales. With Aurora Veil & Heavy Duty Boots, it's easy to set up an Agility or Nasty Plot (or both) safely, and proceed to smack whatever Ground, Grass, or Dragon type that thinks the lack of Hidden Power means Thundy can't pack Ice coverage anymore with Weather Ball.
That's not to say there aren't any flaws with this core. Weather Ball is dependent on Hail, and you can't have Light Clay & Icy Rock. Tyranitar and Hippowdon are perfectly happy to turn Weather Ball into a Rock type move while laughing at your lack of Focus Blast or Grass Knot, and Bulletproof Kommo-o is straight up immune. Plus there's the usual conundrum of oft only being able to set up Agility or Nasty Plot rather than both. Still, it's quite fun to pull off a sweep with this set or just remove a mon that pesters something you have in the back.
Ninetales-Alola @ Light Clay
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aurora Veil
- Freeze-Dry
- Hail
- Encore
Thundurus-Therian (M) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Agility
- Thunderbolt
- Weather Ball
Ninetales sets Aurora Veil as usual, but Thundurus-T in particular has great synergy with Ninetales. With Aurora Veil & Heavy Duty Boots, it's easy to set up an Agility or Nasty Plot (or both) safely, and proceed to smack whatever Ground, Grass, or Dragon type that thinks the lack of Hidden Power means Thundy can't pack Ice coverage anymore with Weather Ball.
252 SpA Thundurus-Therian Weather Ball (100 BP Ice) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tangrowth in Hail: 408-480 (100.9 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Thundurus-Therian Weather Ball (100 BP Ice) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian in Hail: 568-672 (148.6 - 175.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Thundurus-Therian Weather Ball (100 BP Ice) vs. 200 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde in Hail: 356-420 (87.4 - 103.1%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Thundurus-Therian Weather Ball (100 BP Ice) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Tapu Bulu in Hail: 352-416 (102.6 - 121.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Thundurus-Therian Weather Ball (100 BP Ice) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Multiscale Dragonite in Hail: 340-402 (88 - 104.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Thundurus-Therian Weather Ball (100 BP Ice) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian in Hail: 568-672 (148.6 - 175.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Thundurus-Therian Weather Ball (100 BP Ice) vs. 200 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde in Hail: 356-420 (87.4 - 103.1%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Thundurus-Therian Weather Ball (100 BP Ice) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Tapu Bulu in Hail: 352-416 (102.6 - 121.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Thundurus-Therian Weather Ball (100 BP Ice) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Multiscale Dragonite in Hail: 340-402 (88 - 104.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
That's not to say there aren't any flaws with this core. Weather Ball is dependent on Hail, and you can't have Light Clay & Icy Rock. Tyranitar and Hippowdon are perfectly happy to turn Weather Ball into a Rock type move while laughing at your lack of Focus Blast or Grass Knot, and Bulletproof Kommo-o is straight up immune. Plus there's the usual conundrum of oft only being able to set up Agility or Nasty Plot rather than both. Still, it's quite fun to pull off a sweep with this set or just remove a mon that pesters something you have in the back.
Two can play! "Part of me dies each time someone complains, essentially asking for us to quickban 3+ Pokemon within 4-5 days of a monumental release. Delete these posters plz." Why? Sure, let's explain why!
Any individual Pokemon getting banned has a substantial impact on the rest of the metagame. The Pokemon used changes, the way those Pokemon are used changes, and on a larger scale playstyles/trends also change. Quickbans are only applied to absolutely drastic cases earlier in tiers or with a clear notice of future action (i.e: Melmetal and Cinderace in pre-DLC2 SS OU) to begin with; expecting quickbans of 4, 5, 6, etc. Pokemon is, to put it bluntly, absolutely ridiculous. The fact that we banned two and are not handling this one at a time is arguably risky enough and more risky than anything else in modern OU tiering history*. Let's examine all of the modern OU quickbans:
Generation 8
- Genesect and Naganadel: October 28, 2020
- Cinderace: August 5, 2020
- Kyurem-Black and Melmetal: February 14, 2020*
- Darmanitan-Galar: December 29, 2019
- Moody: December 10, 2019
- Shadow Tag: November 18, 2019
- Baton Pass: May 27, 2017
- Landorus-I: December 10, 2016
- Aegislash: November 29, 2016
- Power Construct: November 22, 2016
- Salamencite: November 28, 2014
- Kangaskhanite: December 18, 2013
- Gengarite: December 2, 2013
- Blaziken and Deoxys-N: November 12, 2013
We have only had three* quickbans of more than one Pokemon over the last 8 years, with one being under circumstances that obviously make it less noteworthy than the other two. Over this span and going as far back as I can possibly tell, we have never banned more than two Pokemon with the same quickban at the same time.
Ok, but why is the system like this and why not change it? Because every ban has such a drastic impact, that we cannot accurately say what the next trends will be. Multiple things could be broken in one metagame state, but if one of them is banned, all of a sudden the other could potentially not be broken. You couple this with the fact that almost all quickbans happen very early into metagames -- i.e: rn we are less than a week into the metagame. Forming valid opinions on potential suspects and bans usually take weeks, so it would have to be blatantly broken to get quickbanned to begin with. If ALL of this is not enough, you also get the fact that these new metagames shift at a super rapid pace. We have seen so many different trends pop-up and then fade away in the last week alone, making it near impossible to have a consistent opinion formed on non-obvious cases.
At this point, it should be obvious why quickbans need to be handled carefully. If you still don't agree, that's fine, but I disagree profusely and this is not changing. One thing that I would like to see changed for a more aggressive approach? Public suspects should be handled more aggressively in the future in order to give the community the ideal time and setting to determine what should happen with the metagame. Still though...council quickbans are and always will be handled with caution. We banned two Pokemon because they were two absolute extremes. Naganadel was very clearly broken.
Now as for why these two Pokemon: it is much more valid to disagree with the Pokemon that ended up banned, especially when compared to the quantity of Pokemon banned. However, I personally shared my thoughts on each Pokemon multiple times, including most recently here. Genesect and Naganadel are far-and-away the most restrictive in my eyes. I do believe that Lando-I, Kyurem-B, and Zygarde will be short lived in the metagame, but they were not on par with these two and their roles in the tier are still constantly evolving.
We had this issue before and honestly I hate that we are having again. I do not know what switch flicked in people's minds that made them decide they were allowed to openly complain about things that already happened in a thread clearly intended for current metagame discussion, but obviously it is not. I find it annoying that my transparency is used as an open door to complain and tear down well-thought out decisions just because of personal disagreements. This is not and will never be the place for you guys to just bash tiering decisions with low-effort rants. That ruins the thread for everyone trying to discuss the metagame in a genuine fashion, such as the poster directly above me! If you have grievances, PM the council anytime and we will respond.
I feel like we haven't heard about Magearna much because busted Genesect existed as insane steel type competition. However I have encountered a Specs Magearna and I can say that I got torn apart by it despite two bulky steel types because there are still no real safe switch ins. You have to guess the move and can still be a very lethal guessing game. I still think it may be still unhealthy but compared to the stupidly insane Genesect and Naganadel is probably not of immediate concern, and there are more things that can threaten a KO on it in general.
I disagree about Blaziken. It's just not really a problem at all. It's at best just a good Pokemon and I've found myself swapping it for another mon that is more consistent when testing teams.
If you're having problems with Blaziken that may be due to bad teambuilding on your part. Off the top of my head and this is assuming Blaziken can even get a +2 in the first place and stay healthy
Hippowdon: This always beats Blaziken as long as you don't take too much damage.
Dragonite: As long as Multiscale this will always beat Blaziken.
Landorus-T: I´ll call this a check because it doesn't have reliable recovery but always beat Blaziken even at +2.
Moltres. This takes any +2 attack barring Stone Edge and retaliates with Air Slash or Hurricane.
Tapu Fini: Check. lives anything and retaliates with Scald.
Unaware Clef: Check. It spams Softboiled until it's in Moonblast range.
Zygarde: Check. This takes any hit and KOs back with TA .
Slowbro. Check. Takes any hit at +2 even a Thunder Punch 70% of the time.
Priority users
Dragonite
Crawdaunt
Azumarill
Zygarde
Rillaboom (this does over half)
Things that still outspeed at +1 speed
Scarf Spectrier
Scarf Kartana
Sand Rushers
Swift Swimmers
Regieleki
Ditto
Hawlucha
Scarf Lele
Like even things like Ferrothorn are sort of a grey area for setting up with Blaziken because Body Press will hurt and then you take a bunch of damage with LO, barbs and possibly Rocky Helmet and you end up with a dead Blaziken. Obviously you don't stay in with Ferrothorn ever if you have something else that can handle it but lets just pretend for a moment that you have nothing for Blaziken and it can sweep if it gets up an SD. It just struggles to set up imo. That base speed at turn 1 doesn't do it any favors eithers.
This is just off the top of my head and I´m missing a bunch of others. If you got swept by Blaziken late game or whatever then your opponent simply played his cards right and you got outplayed. That's completely normal and part of the game.
I'm running the following bulky Moltres set with good success. I prefer U-Turn over Scorching Sands but YMMV. 12 Spe to outspeed positivie Base 50s and uninvested Landorus-T
Moltres @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 48 SpA / 12 Spe
Bold Nature
- Flamethrower
- U-turn
- Roost
- Defog
Adding on to what Finch said, a while ago in Natdex (not OU but still), they quickebanned Ash-Greninja, Tornadus-Therian and Mega Metagross (among others). Then it was found that Greninja, also powerful, was not a top-tier threat without its buddies and was subsequently unbanned. So quickbanning can be good and sometimes necessary, but if you quickban too much you often don't see either the full picture or some key details.
The set that I've been running is almost identical. 204 Def / 20 Spe, with the extra EVs drawn from SpA. Now that I'm looking at the speed tiers, 20 Spe to tie with neutral nature max Spe EV Tyranitar might not be necessary since Scorching Sands doesn't do much damage and they easily 1hko you with Stone Edge even if you get a burn, but 16 to hit 220 to outspeed neutral nature max Spe EV Magnezone and Aegislash is potentially worth it.
I have mostly been using Scorching Sands and have been skipping U-Turn, which I honestly hate doing, on teams where I need to have Roost.
I've thought about trying out Mystical Fire, but haven't yet. The power drop sucks, but it could be considerably better at walling things with a way to drop SpA on opposing threats.
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I threw a bunch of pseudo legendaries on to a team. Despite magearna, zygarde, and kyurem all being way OP, the other three put in some serious work. But really ban those first three.
To highlight them specifically:
Absolute unit (Melmetal) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Double Iron Bash
- Discharge
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
Did you know this gets bolt beam? Did you know it can OHKO lando after rocks? Yeah. Smack a pelipper upside the beak. It also lives magma storm and kills heatran. Fat melmetal best melmetal. There are certainly better EVs, but Im not some calcing scrub.
Zarude @ Leftovers
Ability: Leaf Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Jungle Healing
- Darkest Lariat
- Power Whip
- Bulk Up
Hardwalls zygarde, spookhorse, and other stuff. Darkest lariat blasts through coil. This cleaned up most games. Super good pokemon.
Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Draining Kiss
- Taunt
- Scald
Speedy fini with draining kiss. Another pokemon most teams don't have a real answer for. CM once or twice and that's it. Draining kiss is a huge addition since last gen. You sit on front of fat HP dragons and just eat them up.
Overall, regiielectric is less powerful now that everyone using 2x grounds. Still stand by banning the crap put of:
https://pokepast.es/2a56181952e45947
I have some replays if wanted. Probably 1850 at best. I'm not that good but this beats all the copy pasters on ladder, so yeah. S/o omari and the Halloween team guy for cool sets.
To highlight them specifically:
Absolute unit (Melmetal) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Double Iron Bash
- Discharge
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
Did you know this gets bolt beam? Did you know it can OHKO lando after rocks? Yeah. Smack a pelipper upside the beak. It also lives magma storm and kills heatran. Fat melmetal best melmetal. There are certainly better EVs, but Im not some calcing scrub.
Zarude @ Leftovers
Ability: Leaf Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Jungle Healing
- Darkest Lariat
- Power Whip
- Bulk Up
Hardwalls zygarde, spookhorse, and other stuff. Darkest lariat blasts through coil. This cleaned up most games. Super good pokemon.
Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Draining Kiss
- Taunt
- Scald
Speedy fini with draining kiss. Another pokemon most teams don't have a real answer for. CM once or twice and that's it. Draining kiss is a huge addition since last gen. You sit on front of fat HP dragons and just eat them up.
Overall, regiielectric is less powerful now that everyone using 2x grounds. Still stand by banning the crap put of:
- Zygarde
- Magearna (stored power is dumb)
- Kyurem black
- Lando genie
- Blaziken
https://pokepast.es/2a56181952e45947
I have some replays if wanted. Probably 1850 at best. I'm not that good but this beats all the copy pasters on ladder, so yeah. S/o omari and the Halloween team guy for cool sets.
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Honestly, I haven't had many problems with Kyu-B whatsoever. Can see why people complain but I have had wayyyyy more problems with Zygarde and especially Lando-I. Sets not running Earth Power (Roost is rather common) get hard walled by Melmetal. Lando-I on the other hand has so many sets, that it's virtually impossible to wall all the time. And Zygarde feels like a rehash of Gen 5 Garchomp Sand Veil abuse but substitude Sand Veil for Glare-Sub stalling so it sits behind a sub and murders your team.
So will there be no more quick bans and the other stuff will be taken care of via suspect or will the outcome for future action be determined via the player survey? I think many players just don’t want to end up with a scenario where we have to go through a 2 week long suspect test, plus a 2 week stability period for mons that are unanimously broken for the most part. I do agree that suspects should be approached more aggressively, but still I hope that through the upcoming survey we can hopefully quick ban at least 1 more mon before we proceed with normal suspects
There will likely be another council vote to quick ban things after the player survey; the survey will help us determine what the playerbase prioritizes and what way it is best to proceed.
We do not plan on having suspects on every single controversial Pokemon and taking forever, but determining what is most important to everyone and what the playerbase believes is worth discussing is still very important. My point was not to avoid quickbans; my point was to not use quickbans too liberally or abuse the fact that they exist. Having 3+ at a single time is disregarding the true purpose of them: improving the metagame. We cannot know for sure what is best if we cut corners as I alluded to in my prior post. I am happy to quickban one or more things moving forward personally, but I am not happy to do so recklessly as many suggest.
I generally don't like to have it as my main defogger - I usually use this combination of moves
Overheat - lets me get OHKOs post-rocks on things like non-AV Melmetal, non-AV Magearna, Physdef Amoonguss and utility Exca. While the SpA drop can be a pain sometimes and lets a lot of things in, I think the ability to hard punish more of the meta and deal out bigger neutral hits is more important, especially when you risk things like Amoonguss status or Specs Magearna volt switches otherwise.
Scorching Sands - necessary for Blaziken and Heatran - these pokemon are likely to 1v1 you otherwise. Also provides burn chance to make it difficult to switch in on.
Either Toxic or U-turn, depending on what the team needs more
Roost
I find that Moltres needs all its slots a little too much to justify using it for defog, especially in the event it gets knocked and your team is suddenly without any removal. U-turn and Toxic is kind of a tossup - U-turn is great for more offensive builds, as it lets you lure in things like Fini, Pex and Blissey, but Toxic is great to beat potential offensive checks like Pult, Lando or Zygarde. Defog in my opinion doesn't provide enough relative to these other two moves, and it's very hard to justify giving up fire STAB, Scorching Sands or Roost for it.
It’s called a “metagame”. Things are only good when the larger playerbase decides that they are.
Kyurem might be a legendary with 700 BST and Dragon Dance which is obviously broken on paper, but it has a history of being “bad”, so it isn’t auto-Ubers or quickban worthy (even though its flaws have largely been patched up).
To expand what he said a little bit. Kyurem-B's so-called "perfect bolt/beam coverage" is actually not perfect at all. Sometimes that lazy bastard decides to throw only 2 spears and then call it a day, which can be a different between winning or losing games. 100 BP Fusion Bolt sounds powerful but it is no STAB. And there are a lot of thing that can take a neutral bolt, while also resist its ice STAB running around right now.
Don't get me wrong tho, it definitely requires special attention every time you see it on team preview. But it does not restricts team building in anyway I can see.
On the other hand though, it doesn't feel right to me that Naganadel got quick banned while Blaziken got away. The two mons share very similar traits imo: Both require a Sword Dance/Nasty Plot plus Life Orb to sweep effectively. And both also take advantage of their abilities to get a speed boost. The only different is Blaziken doesn't care about getting a KO to get a speed boost.
Blaziken has many more offensive and defensive checks than Naganadel did. Even at +1, it's still outsped by Scarfers above its base speed of 80, it's much more vulnerable to common priority like Aqua Jet and Grassy Glide (even with the resist it still gets chunked), it's prone to getting chipped through compounded recoil from Life Orb and Flare Blitz, and it needs to pick what it gets walled by depending on its last move (Protect for initial boost, Stone Edge for Flying-types, Thunderpunch for Water-types) - not to mention that it has hard defensive checks such as Hippowdon and Unaware Clefable no matter what it runs.
It might become problematic down the road if potential bans/tests and metagame trends favor it too well, but I'm confident in saying that the chicken is here to stay for the foreseeable future.