Red Raven
I COULD BE BANNED!
As I said earlier, boots made dangerous mons that much more difficult to deal with but that doesn't necessarily mean they're broken. Cinderace was the only exception since boots removed its one down side. How many times do I have to repeat this god damn sentence?If a mon that abuses Boots is also broken, then just ban the mon. No need to ban boots and then make Moltres hit an even bigger low. Whether or not Torn-T is too much for the metagame is debatable but it does have some counters like Zapdos, Koko, and Zera along with a few good checks/soft checks like Specs Pult, Slowking, Blissey, Weavile, etc. However there is an argument that Torn p much forces you to run these mons, but this is something for another day. Also didn’t I just list a good number of checks and counters to Volc? More on that later.
I believe what Musique was referring to was Gren in Gen 6, not Gen 7. ORAS Gren was very similar to Ace. Both have great coverage, the same ability, and were fast asf.
Musique brought up Scyther as an argument on Boots being unhealthy. Boots are supposedly too much for the metagame yet shit like Ninjask and Noivern can hardly even scratch OU. For a move, ability, or item to be broken, it has to make a garbage mon into an uncompetitive mess. (Gothitelle, Glalie, Dugtrio, etc). You missed the point Muisque and everyone else was trying to bring up.
What point exactly? These two mons play differently. One is a breaker with Roost for longevity, the other is an offensive pivot with high powered moves and a great speed tier.
Also wtf are you talking about in regards to Volc? I straight up listed 14 good checks and counters to Volcarona. All of these mons are highly meta relevant with most of them being Top 20 or Top 10 material respectively.
Yes Boots made some mons better/way better in the metagame, but it didn’t break these mons. Ace prob would’ve still gotten banned even if Boots weren’t in the game. Remember Mence from DPPT? Remember Torn-T and Thundy from BW? Remember the monstrocity that was Mega-Mence? All these mons are rock weak but guess what, they all got banned. They had banworthy traits that pushed them to Uber material. Even if you take away Ace’s boots you still only have five fucking counters to it in the whole game. Lando and Chomp will still get worn down quickly especially since Ace would be able to run LO/Band now. Slowbro is U-Turn bait, and Hippo is 2HKOd after rocks in an alternate timeline where LO Ace is a thing. It means run Pex or die. To put it simply, Boots added to Ace’s brokenness, but even without it Ace is still broken cause a reminder that it has only five counters in the whole game. Torn and Slowbro being broken is up to debate, and if they are then simply ban them instead of Boots. I know for a fact Mandi and Koko aren’t breaking the game with boots equipped.
So what point am I when making these comparisons? Just give me a yes or no as this point is rather simple. In fact, just give a like if you're answer is yes or haha if no. Do you want dangerous mons like Zard Y to come in unscathed over the course of the entire battle?
Oh and that Scyther thing, go read that policy review that FInch posted a while back and there was a post that specifically said boots made Scyther near unbearable. Just because a certain mon can't break into ou doesn't necessarily mean that the point doesn't stand
Yes you listed all those checks but that's it, they're checks. You do realize that if pokemon x checks pokemon y, then y can still very feasibly beat x on its own? Do you think Garchomp or Lando will be able to check Volcarona if they're both taking minor chip damage every time they come in? You know the answer. They won't as sooner or later, they will be put in range of Volcarona's +1 stabs
This is the last post I'm gonna make about this topic so just answer the question I asked in the second paragraph as that was the main point of why I brought up boots in the first place