I was gonna say something stupid like Lightning Rod A-Marowak, but I remembered that the Club is mandatory and I'm not even sure if the Battery works with immunity abilities.View attachment 292498
Cell Battery - Raises holder's Attack by 1 if hit by an Electric-type attack. Single use.
Bad items have always been around. But now that we have Mr. guaranteed Electric move, would there be any at least gimmick application for this?
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Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #3539)
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
unhealthy and overcentralizing^ having to run one of three mons to not autolose to this is not fun. I have seen this thing beat Mandibuzz with wisp hex sets. I hate all these "win-more" snowball abilities on fast mons, it's just lame. Banning this thing would instantly help the viability of gengar, blacephalon and to a lesser extent, specs Dragapult. I think Spectrier represents another clear bottleneck on the development of a diverse and healthy meta.
While it’s true that Spectrier and, from your earlier complaint post, Magearna, and others, have potential to be problematic in the tier, you probably don’t need to go around complaining about them after we just got those QBs. Chill and let the tier settle first.
We just did get QBs but that doesn't stop anyone from talking about any other possibly unhealthy mons. This is a metagame discussion thread where we discuss the metagame, and right now Negative Charge is discussing the metagame so I don't see a problem with him bringing up some mons he views as problematic. That being said I agree. Spectrier pretty much forces one of 3 OU mons or a very select list on non-OU mons just so you are prepared for it. Specs sets on their own pretty much win against a team without a resist or an immunity, similar to Regieleki but in Regieleki's case Electric immunities are more common and in general have uses outside of Eleki. Sub Set-up sets of Spectrier are very varied in what they run, so it's almost impossible to predict what set it is. Sometimes you just gotta assume that its going to be a Sub-Disable-Calm Mind-Dark Pulse set or a Sub-Taunt-Wisp set that 6-0s you, because if you play like it isn't and it does turn out to be one of these you kinda just lose. I think Spectrier's ability to force a counter to it on every teams, as well as its ability to possibly even beat them with good play and set luck is reminiscent of a certain snake that was recently banned.
Fair enough. For the record, I wasn’t trying to sound condescending or offensive, just pointing out that the meta definitely needs time to settle.
I'm a fan of protect just for all the extra healing against rillaboom squads (I also recklessly assume most games they are banded which protect helps you play around), here's probably the most disgusting example I have of Suicune https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1226540607-wec2u0339r10ewjksw3yel4z07mwcvxpw
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How do people usually play around knock off spam? I usually just decide which item I need the least & let the knock it off so I have a switch in throughout the game lol. I’m far from the best player though so who knows, maybe I’m missing something. I miss Megas.
Hate to bring it up again, but this is part of why I think it’s almost necessary to test Zamazenta-c also. Knock off seems to have very little counterplay right now.
Hate to bring it up again, but this is part of why I think it’s almost necessary to test Zamazenta-c also. Knock off seems to have very little counterplay right now.
Usually by having mons that can afford to lose their item. Prime examples can be Pex or Clef. I'd say some of the requirements to be a "knock off absorber" imo is to be either/and
1.) Bulky,
2.) Not item reliant
3.) Have Recovery
If your only option for recovery is lefties or the item as a way to either outspeed or do damage, then of course you are fucked when it is knocked off.
Zamazenta-C has 800+ effective base stat total, STAB CC and Behemoth Bash, excellent coverage moves, and less than optimal but still potent setup in Howl. Unlike a lot of Ubers such as Rayquaza it doesn't waste some of the bst on mixed offenses, this shield dog has 80 base sp attack rofl, it's min-maxed as can be.
Oh wow who would have thought the shield Pokémon isn't amazing at shield breaking. Instead Garchomp Earthquake 3HKOs you while you eat almost literally any weaker hit. This dumb ass dog eats offense and despite claims otherwise Howl + 3 attack breaks walls just fine.
Please unban this for a week just so the community can live in a world where Moltres / Quagsire is mandatory and where offense gets cock blocked by a dog with better physical bulk than Regirock and enough special bulk to eat a Heatran's Magma Storm with plenty of HP to spare. Oh and that's just looking at it as a single Pokemon. How well can you handle this mon if your Slowbro eats a Toxic or if Dog has Wish support?
It can't hold an item but lol it doesn't even need one. I'd rather see Giratina, Lugia, or lol Arceus Ice in OU than this broken ass dog.
Oh wow who would have thought the shield Pokémon isn't amazing at shield breaking. Instead Garchomp Earthquake 3HKOs you while you eat almost literally any weaker hit. This dumb ass dog eats offense and despite claims otherwise Howl + 3 attack breaks walls just fine.
Please unban this for a week just so the community can live in a world where Moltres / Quagsire is mandatory and where offense gets cock blocked by a dog with better physical bulk than Regirock and enough special bulk to eat a Heatran's Magma Storm with plenty of HP to spare. Oh and that's just looking at it as a single Pokemon. How well can you handle this mon if your Slowbro eats a Toxic or if Dog has Wish support?
It can't hold an item but lol it doesn't even need one. I'd rather see Giratina, Lugia, or lol Arceus Ice in OU than this broken ass dog.
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Is there any Pokemon that actually deals with Pheromosa well at the moment?
QD seems pretty ridiculous to me now that people have started using Shock Wave more (which seems unironically good) and fats like Blissey don't work for obvious reasons. Running into this QD set + it's old sets still being a thing have changed my opinion on it recently and I'm feel it's really broken now but it's possible I'm missing something because I haven't been playing as much so please educate me if needed.
QD seems pretty ridiculous to me now that people have started using Shock Wave more (which seems unironically good) and fats like Blissey don't work for obvious reasons. Running into this QD set + it's old sets still being a thing have changed my opinion on it recently and I'm feel it's really broken now but it's possible I'm missing something because I haven't been playing as much so please educate me if needed.
It depends on the set of course, QD is walled by Unaware Clefable but physical sets with poison jab can 2HKO it and those are walled by mons like Moltres and Buzzwole so you have to scout out which set it is, and although it can be pretty easy just guessing by looking at the opponent's team composition, it's always good to be prepared
+1 252 SpA Pheromosa Shock Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 150-178 (49.3 - 58.5%) -- 63.7% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
just switch in your pex
So what? Any Pokemon with a boosting item effectively gets a BST increase. Tyranitar for example with a CB and sand boost also has 800+ BST. The problem with Zamazenta is that it's best move CC lowers it's defenses which is so counter productive for a Pokemon that's supposed to be really bulky. Wild Charge likewise is counter productive to it's bulk.. I really don't understand why you think this is broken.
1 spike or rocks say hi!
On another note, darkrai would probably end up being more balanced than Zama C. 125 speed isn't very impressive any more, bad dreams is almost a non-ability because of sleep clause/dark void nerf, and while the movepool is great, it suffers from 4mss pretty bad, because darkrai really wants stab, bolt beam, focus blast, nasty plot and potentially hypnosis to help with setup and chip damage. I don't necessarily think darkrai should be tested (It's currently not even in the game lol) but the more I've thought about it the more I think that Zama would be too much. I'm in favor for a suspect test of it, but I'd likely end up voting for a ban unless it ends up more underwhelming than I anticipate it to be.
Not really sure what you're trying to say with that (or if I'm missing sarcasm) but that kind of damage is exactly why I find Pheromosa so hard to deal with lol, that set in particular almost always runs LO too.
when he qd u switch in,take a hit,haze it,simple and ez
We will not be freeing Arceus-Bug, nor any other form of Arceus or unreleased Pokemon.
This is a discussion of the SS OU metagame, not National Dex Anything Goes or Ubers. Let's keep this in mind, thanks.
This is a discussion of the SS OU metagame, not National Dex Anything Goes or Ubers. Let's keep this in mind, thanks.
Choice Band Tyranitar gets effectively base +59 from Sandstorm and +92 from Choice Band leaving it with 751 total compared to what, 801 for Zamazenta with no EVs? Also in case it wasn't obvious Band Tyranitar can't switch moves, has hilariously low base speed, and probably the worst defensive typing OU has ever seen. It terms of move base power Zamazanta has 120 / 100 vs Ttar's 100 / 80. Oh, and Tyranitar has been OU literally every single gen it has existed so yes I would say those base stats bring it pretty far.
I feel like I shouldn't have to explain why an 801 BST Pokemon with Fighting / Steel and the two best possible STAB moves of its type is not comparable to a Rock / Dark with 61 base speed that has been top tier OU every single gen but here we are.
Hey guys, my first post on the forums so please bare with me. I'm relatively new to playing competitive Pokemon (just reached ~1500 after a few days) and am trying out some different ideas before I go for my first high ladder run. Here's a set I found quite interesting that I'm using on my sand team:
Garchomp @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Scale Shot
Quite the cheesy set but I've been having a lot of fun with it. I'm pairing it with Smooth Rock Hippowdon to provide 8-turn sand for this set to function. It functions somewhat similarly to SubGlare Zygarde, in that you use Substitute to block status and Leech Seed and potentially buy yourself a free turn with Sand Veil causing incoming moves to have 20% less accuracy. Thanks to Scale Shot, Garchomp can now boost its speed without the need of a Salac Berry, allowing you to use Leftovers to make more Substitutes. Just my take on the Scale Shot + SD Chomp.
The Team (pokepaste doesnt wanna cooperate lmao):
Dracozolt @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 72 Atk / 252 SpA / 184 Spe
Rash Nature
- Bolt Beak
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
Excadrill @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
Hippowdon @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Slack Off
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Whirlwind
Garchomp @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Scale Shot
Mandibuzz (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 204 SpD / 56 Spe
Careful Nature
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Defog
- Roost
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike @ Choice Band
Ability: Unseen Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Surging Strikes
- Close Combat
- U-turn
Urshifu-RS is used as a glue, since this team is fairly weak to Pheromosa. CB Aqua Jet can KO after rocks + 1 round of sand damage (252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 211-249 (74.5 - 87.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock ). Also helps provide insurance versus Dittos that copy Excadrill. Magnezone is a viable alternative that notably traps Corv and the other flying steels that Chomp doesn't like, though I find Dracozolt to be able to break through them fine. Dracozolt's spread allows it to outspeed max speed scarf Lando-T and 2HKO it with Draco Meteor while the rest goes into physical attack to power up Bolt Beak. It's also able to 2HKO physically defensive Hippodown with Draco, which is really nice.
Thank you for reading and have a nice day! :)
Garchomp @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Scale Shot
Quite the cheesy set but I've been having a lot of fun with it. I'm pairing it with Smooth Rock Hippowdon to provide 8-turn sand for this set to function. It functions somewhat similarly to SubGlare Zygarde, in that you use Substitute to block status and Leech Seed and potentially buy yourself a free turn with Sand Veil causing incoming moves to have 20% less accuracy. Thanks to Scale Shot, Garchomp can now boost its speed without the need of a Salac Berry, allowing you to use Leftovers to make more Substitutes. Just my take on the Scale Shot + SD Chomp.
The Team (pokepaste doesnt wanna cooperate lmao):
Dracozolt @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 72 Atk / 252 SpA / 184 Spe
Rash Nature
- Bolt Beak
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
Excadrill @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
Hippowdon @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Slack Off
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Whirlwind
Garchomp @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Scale Shot
Mandibuzz (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 204 SpD / 56 Spe
Careful Nature
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Defog
- Roost
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike @ Choice Band
Ability: Unseen Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Surging Strikes
- Close Combat
- U-turn
Urshifu-RS is used as a glue, since this team is fairly weak to Pheromosa. CB Aqua Jet can KO after rocks + 1 round of sand damage (252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 211-249 (74.5 - 87.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock ). Also helps provide insurance versus Dittos that copy Excadrill. Magnezone is a viable alternative that notably traps Corv and the other flying steels that Chomp doesn't like, though I find Dracozolt to be able to break through them fine. Dracozolt's spread allows it to outspeed max speed scarf Lando-T and 2HKO it with Draco Meteor while the rest goes into physical attack to power up Bolt Beak. It's also able to 2HKO physically defensive Hippodown with Draco, which is really nice.
Thank you for reading and have a nice day! :)
You end up losing your Pex that way more often than not and at that point Pheromosa is killing half your team if Focus Blast permits it to. I just don't really see how it doesn't completely shred balance teams without some form of priority or whatever.
Welcome to the forums and thanks for posting, I always love seeing the input people have on the metagame.
Just a little advice for future reference, there are places to post full teams if you want to share them or even get them rated by others. Here is a more informal thread for team sharing in this subforum and here is the RateMyTeam SS OU subforum, which is dedicated to rating teams in the tier. Be sure to let me know if you have any other questions anytime!
Thank you for the warm welcome and the resources, will consider using for sure! Personally, I remember reading about Sand Veil being banned in Gen 5 OU because of Chomp, so I wanted to give it a try in SWSH.
On another note as a reply to my first post: I think sand is quite strong thanks to Dracozolt and Sand Veil Garchomp (now that Zygarde is gone). I haven’t seen many people posting about it due to the Zamazenta-C talk that’s been going on haha. Hippowdon has the advantage of under speeding Pelipper and sand possesses a naturally solid matchup versus sun. Mandibuzz is a fantastic check to Venusaur and Garchomp + Urshifu-RS do a fine job switching into Heatran. Definitely my favorite team archetype to play right now. :)
The thing about Zamazenta-C is that due to it's high speed (and thus attacking first) it will almost always take a hit with lowered defenses if it uses CC or in Wild Charge´s case (because of the HP decrease). It will not love taking Rocky Helmet chip on top of the recoil damage either I can tell you that. I'd rather use the immediate power of something like CB Urshifu than take time to boost with Howl with all the Haze, Thunder Wave, Will O Wisp, Flame Body and Static running around the tier. This thing is just not as good as you make it out to be. It also lacks recovery outside of Rest and doesn't even get Toxic so there's no way something like Lugia is preferable to this who has a better boosting move in Calm Mind and way better defenses due to Multiscale.