Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #3161)

I agree regarding Dragapult being incredibly restricting in Teambuilding, especially the Choice Specs set.

To me, the biggest part about Dragapult being annoying is the fact it invalidates Spe Def invested Pokemons such as Corviknight, Hippowdon, Ferrothorn and others, as well as Bulky Phys Def invested Pokemons such as Clefable, Zapdos and even Toxapex using what I feel unfair and uncompetitive in Shadow Ball's 20% Spe Def drop.

The actual strategy of a Specs Dragapult user when he sees a Heatran, a Clefable, a Corviknight aside from Blissey and Mandibuzz in Teampreview only relies on luck, and many players feel so insecure about it they are forced to run Blissey or a Heavy Ghost resist in Mandibuzz / Tyranitar in each of their team.

The biggest joke in all this is even if your Dragapult Switch In is Blissey or one of the aforementioned Ghost Resists, Dragapult can still abuse from your position by brainlessly spamming U Turn, bringing a powerful breaker such as Banded Bisharp on your "safe" switch in, while weakening your actual Dragapult switch in.

However, what makes Choice Specs Dragapult not broken is the fact that it takes Hazard Damages by coming in, contrary to the Heavy Duty Boots set.

Given all the possibilities Dragapult has in this metagame, as well as his capability to spam Shadow Ball regularly making the atmosphere uncomfortable for many players regarding the 20% Spe Def drop occurence, I'd enjoy seeing a survey more focused on Dragapult at first.

A point I also thought about is the fact we previously banned Spectrier for similar reasons, but the big difference remains Dragapult's access to U Turn.
I wonder if banning Dragapult would truly solve the Shadow Ball spam problem, as we could see a raise of Aegislash if we'd do so as Dragapult did when Spectrier got Banned.
 
Last edited:

Martin

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This is probably going to come across as extremely pedantic, especially because I want Dragapult banned as much as the next guy, but can we please not throw out the word “uncompetitive” to refer to anything and everything we don’t like when it doesn’t actually apply to anything other than Moody, pre-nerf SwagPlay, evasion boosting etc. that actively takes the outcome of the game out of the hands of both players? We have a whole suite of words that a lot of people just refuse to use and it’s made discussion feel so fucking shallow over the past few years.

There is a lot about Dragapult that is very overbearing and things about it that you could argue are broken, but there is absolutely nothing about it that is uncompetitive—unless we want to call any and all secondary effect RNG uncompetitive, which is largely the opposite of reality (this game has much more depth with most of its RNG than it would have without it). The Dragapult player still needs to play well to win, meaning the outcome hasn’t been removed from the players’ hands, and your assertion that Dragapult’s whole game plan is fishing for SpD drops is uncharitable at best, not to mention that you could apply the same logic to every Psychic user, every Crunch user, and all other similar cases—at some point it becomes apparent that the fishing for RNG by clicking a move with an independent rate a lot is an active decision a player has to weigh against game state before risking doing. Now, whether Dragapult can do so with little or no risk is another question entirely, but at that point it’s a question of brokenness: not of competitiveness.
 
Just want to chime in about the common underlying denominator around a number of recent outcries for bans:
U-Turn.
Dragapult? every set wants U-turn, even specs, because it's "good for pivoting"
Rillaboom? Ungabunga choice band go brrrrr just like Darm-G (Man, we really hate monkeys this generation...)
Trapping? The topic of U-turn is ALWAYS brought up. Almost every time without fail, dating as far back as the Arena Trap suspect.
Tornadus-T? (not broken, but it was a discussion topic a few months back) Regenerator pivot with U-turn.

And now for the "not broken users that pretty much always have U-Turn":
Lando-T, the "visage of fairness" as some hail it. Switch in for intimidate, U-turn out into your counter pick after weakening their whatever. Bonus points for u-turning into Lando just to use U-Turn into something else.
Scizor - Bug Stab? It's U-turn. No one runs X-Scizor.
Corviknight - Skarmory's big crow bro can escape the magnet pull of the steel trapper Magnezone using a bug move.

I'm probably forgetting some users, but that's 6 mons right there. U-turn has very little counterplay. Rocky Helmet, hazards without defog/spin, and iron barbs/rough skin. It provides an INSANE amount of momentum. Its kindred moves Volt Switch and the new Flip turn have answers in the form of Ground types (hi Lando-T) and Water absorbs (rip Seismitoed) respectively. There is no way to prevent a U-Turn switch. You can predict and play around it, but you can't really punish it.
I think that this OU would be a more interesting competitive metagame if U-Turn did not exist.
 
Just want to chime in about the common underlying denominator around a number of recent outcries for bans:
U-Turn.
Dragapult? every set wants U-turn, even specs, because it's "good for pivoting"
Rillaboom? Ungabunga choice band go brrrrr just like Darm-G (Man, we really hate monkeys this generation...)
Trapping? The topic of U-turn is ALWAYS brought up. Almost every time without fail, dating as far back as the Arena Trap suspect.
Tornadus-T? (not broken, but it was a discussion topic a few months back) Regenerator pivot with U-turn.

And now for the "not broken users that pretty much always have U-Turn":
Lando-T, the "visage of fairness" as some hail it. Switch in for intimidate, U-turn out into your counter pick after weakening their whatever. Bonus points for u-turning into Lando just to use U-Turn into something else.
Scizor - Bug Stab? It's U-turn. No one runs X-Scizor.
Corviknight - Skarmory's big crow bro can escape the magnet pull of the steel trapper Magnezone using a bug move.

I'm probably forgetting some users, but that's 6 mons right there. U-turn has very little counterplay. Rocky Helmet, hazards without defog/spin, and iron barbs/rough skin. It provides an INSANE amount of momentum. Its kindred moves Volt Switch and the new Flip turn have answers in the form of Ground types (hi Lando-T) and Water absorbs (rip Seismitoed) respectively. There is no way to prevent a U-Turn switch. You can predict and play around it, but you can't really punish it.
I think that this OU would be a more interesting competitive metagame if U-Turn did not exist.
Comparing U-turn to Volt Switch or Flip Turn the way you did is very flawed and saying U-turn isn't punishable is just plain false. 90% of Volt Switch / Flip Turn user has STAB on the move and actually threatens damage when using it, also due to water and electric being good offensive typings, which is why those moves are of typing that have some kind of immunity. On the other hand, most of the U-turn users use a non STAB move with awful offensive typing to deal subpar damage while risking chip damage of their own or a crippling status condition. U-turn is a very good move, don't get me wrong, but some of the Pokémon you mentioned don't always run U-turn anyway so what gives? Tornadus-t's most threatening set is nasty plot and that doesn't typically run U-turn, Rillaboom can run SD pretty effectively and that doesn't use U-turn either, scizor sometimes uses knock off over it, same goes for Lando, corvi has other good sets but runs U-turn to distinguish itself from skarmory because of competition.
I would say Teleport is even less punishable of a move and even that isn't broken.
 
Hello everyone, with the most recent suspect test over and the meta is stabilizing itself once more, I wanted to do a teambuilding guide and a general thought process of what teams should have, shoutout to Katy for getting some of these things together to make this post possible. The mons being listed will cover both defensive and offensive counterplayey for the mons to be provided.

Offensive Grass Types Counterplay: :skarmory: :corviknight: :volcarona: :zapdos: :mandibuzz: :tornadus-therian: :tangrowth: :buzzwole: :dragonite: :scizor:

It's really mandatory for teams having a switchin against Rillaboom and Kartana, with Rillaboom having a strong priority in Grassy Glide that gets boosted from Grassy Terrain and Kartana can be just be just as threatening even on it's own. Flying types are some of the best in switching in to them being able to take hits from them and having access to Roost to keep themselves nice healthy to be able to check, whereas Tornadus-T can outspeed both of them and force them out with it's amazing Speed tier. Though can be reliable at the time all of the flying types, except for the metal birds, have to be warry of Knock Off losing their Heavy-Duty Boots. Skarmory, Corviknigth, Volcarona, Tangrowth, and Zapdos deteriate the offensive grass-types as well by punishing them by making contact or get crippled by Flame Body and Static Body from Volcarona and Zapdos repsectively. Buzzwole and Scizor can take hits from them fairly well having access to Roost keeping themselves healthy, where Buzzwole can even do Bulk Up to better take hits from them, while Scizor can set up on Rillaboom, but must watch out from Sacred Sword from Kartana.


Electric Immunity and Resist: :landorus-therian: :garchomp: :gastrodon: :hippowdon: :excadrill: :nidoking::ferrothorn: :tangrowth: :tapu bulu:

Electric Immunity are useful for teams being a roadblock for Zeraora and Tapu Koko being immune from their electric moves and preventing them to spam Volt Switch. Gastrodon and Hippowdown get a special mention having recovery moves in keeping themselves healthy, while Gastrodon has Sticky Hold preventing itself from losing its item against Knock Off. Tangrowth and Tapu Bulu resist electric type moves resisting their moves, where Tangrowth punishes Zeraora for making contact and Tapu Bulu's typing gives it resistance from their moves. All of these pokemon however do suffer being lured in and then placed on a timer from Toxic, whereas Nidoking, Excadrill, and Ferrothorn are immune to Toxic and resists their attack, though they can be easy to wear down due to lack of reliable recovery.


Ground Immunity and Resist: :landorus-therian: :skarmory: :corviknight: :rotom-wash: :zapdos: :rillaboom: :tapu bulu: :buzzwole:

Having Pokemon that are immune and resist the attacks Ground is always required being able to keep the tiers Landorus-T and Garchomp in check. Flying types such as Skarmory, Corviknight, Zapdos get a mention once more while also still being able to cover those offensive grass types for teams, while Landorus-T can also function but must be wary getting worn down due to the lack of recovery. The flying types have to watchout for coverage moves such as Stone Edge or Fire Fang that can hit them really hard in return. Rotom-W with its ability makes immune to Ground attacks and can lure them expecting a Volt Switch only to get crippled by Will-o-Wisp reducing the attack stat from them. Rillaboom, Tapu Bulu, and Buzzwole all resist ground attack where the former two provide Grassy terrain reducing the power of Earthquake, and the latter is able to set up Bulk Up against them and pressure them with Ice Punch.


Heatran Counterplay: :slowking: :tapu fini: :dragonite: :hydreigon: :garchomp: :gastrodon: :hippowdon: :urshifu-rapid-strike:

Heatran is an omniprescent pokemon that provides a lot for teams in many cases you will be having two checks for it since Heatran is able to play against its check and counter of it's different sets. Bulky water types such as Slowking, Gastrodon, and Tapu Fini are able to take hits from Magma Storm and shrug off the damage of Earth Power, the former two must watchout of getting taunted not being able to recover and can get placed on a timer by Toxic, while Tapu Fini cannot get statused while Misty Terrain is up. Garchomp, Hydreigon, Urshifu-R all act a soft Heatran check for teams resisting it's fire attacking and always forcing it with their super effective moves or coverage. Dragonite gets a special mention against Heatran resisiting Magma Storm, immune to Earth Power and access to Heal Bell preventing it from getting placed on a timer.

Tornadus-T Counterplay: :tapu koko: :zapdos: :rotom-wash: :tyranitar::heatran: :zeraora: :weavile:

One of the strongest wallbreaker in the tier with its fantastic speed tier can pressure teams without the proper handle for it. Tapu Koko and Zapdos are some of the best counters to Tornadus-T resisting Hurricane and having access to Roost keeping them healthy to switchin into Tornadus-T, same thing for Rotom-W resisting Hurricane while not having the same reliable recovery can still work. Zeraora and Weavile are able to force Tornadus-T with their speed tier and revenge killing Tornadus-T with a super effective move. While Tyranitar and Heatran do lose against Focus Blast, if it connects, against Heat Wave variants they have better matchup against it, which is worth mentioning in my opinion.

Kyurem and Tapu Lele Counterplay: :scizor: :slowking: :corviknight: :melmetal: :tyranitar: :dragapult:

Kyurem and Tapu Lele share some of the same checks so simplified it in one slot. These two are strong wallbreakers that will blow past through many teams without proper checking to them. Slowking is able to handle Tapu Lele and of the best answers to it in the tier, against Kyurem be in the watchout for Freeze Dry and Draco Meteor. Steel types are good at switching aginst where Scizor and Special Defensive Corviknight can switch into both Tapu Lele and Kyurem most watchout from Focus Blast and Ice Beam, while Melmetal doens't like switching into a super effective move can easily KO them with Double Iron Bash or cripple them with either Thunder Wave or Toxic. Tyranitar similary doesn;t like switching into a super effective move, but can handle Kyurem well especially for SubRoost sets being able to remove Subsitute with Rock Blast. Dragapult can outspeed both of them and force them with a strong super effective move and with Infiltrator can bypass subsitutes from SubRoost Kyurem.

Weavile Counterplay: :buzzwole: :toxapex: :skarmory: :corviknight: :heatran: :tyranitar:

Weavile alongside Bisharp have been seeing a lot more usage and can be quite threatening for teams not prepared for them. Buzzwole is able to handle against Choice Band variants really well, while be requiring to use Bulk Up in order to boost alongside Swords Dance Weavile. Toxapex is able to handle both variants of Weavile, being able to haze of the boost from Swords Dance, and cripple it with Scald. Heatran and Tyranitar care able to handle Swords Dance variants, being able to take a boosted hit and KO back it with their move respectively. Skarmory and Corviknight are able to wear down Weavile with Rocky Helmet and can take hits from it.

Volcarona Counterplay: :heatran: :slowking: :tapu fini: :landorus-therian: :garchomp::gastrodon: :toxapex: :dragapult:

Volcarona can be quite tricky in preparing having a wide variety of coverages and different sets to counter its own counter. Heatran is immune from fire moves with Flash Fire, is able to resist all of its coverage move, though at most Heatran has to Toxic against non Safegaurd variant, issue with Heatran it could be exploitable if it is your only answer to Volcarona. Bulky Water types can fight off against Volcarona but must watchout for coverage move in Giga Drain and Psychic, Toxapex and Gastrodon are able to remove stat buffs from Volcarona with Clear Smog and Haze. Garchomp is able to take a hit from boosted Volcarona and KO it with Stone Edge, while it will require some chip to take it down with Earthquake, and Scarf Landorus-T is able to revenge Volcarona with Stone Edge and outspeed it after +1. Dragapult can take a hit from Volcarona and heavily cripple it with Thunder Wave, but will struggle breaking it after a boost.

Dragapult Counterplay: :mandibuzz: :hippowdon: :tyranitar: :blissey: :clefable: :zeraora: :weavile: :bisharp: :kartana:

In most cases Dragapult is one of the hardest mons to prep for either its switchins are to passive or it has a way to counteract against its check and counter. Manidbuzz, Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Clefable while they can take hits a Spdef drop from Shadow Ball is gonna hurt a lot, and once thye get statused Hex is going to be really annoying to switch into. Blissey is probably one of the better answers out there but its so passive, and automatically loses if Dragapult is a Substitute variant. Zeraora and Scarf Kartana are able to outspeed Dragapult and revenge kill it, while Weavile and Bisharp can also revenge kill it with priority move, though Bisharp has to make sure Dragapult is going to attack or otherwise gets crippled by either Thunder Wave or Will-o-Wisp by clicking Sucker Punch.

Stallbreakers: :heatran: :reuniclus: :tapu fini: :tapu lele: :weavile: :dragapult: :urshifu-rapid-strike: + :slowking:/:slowbro::tornadus-therian:

There's really a lot more out there to break through against fat teams as well an team composes of being able to break through the plethora of pink blob teams. All of these can put immediate pressure against Stall teams though very uncommon right now it's always nice having stallbreakers in your team if you really don't have a way to break past through them.

Obviously there's some other things not mentioned that are always required such as a hazard remover and setter which I feel almost all teams will include, unless a team isn't to hazard weak. Really hope for those who struggle with teambuilding make use of this guide and get a better idea of what to do when it comes to teambuilding, and can work on that one team that only has that one mon you wanted to build but didn't know how to approach things. Thank you all for your time and for reading this :blobwizard:
 

TailGlowVM

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Any thoughts on Diancie? It's a Dragapult check that isn't affected by Shadow Ball drops, and gets Heal Bell.
Did you perhaps see my discussion about it on Discord? I don't believe it is actually a bad option in this metagame, also checking Volcarona, Tornadus-T, and with Earth Power, Heatran. I'm working on a nomination for it at the moment.
 
Did you perhaps see my discussion about it on Discord? I don't believe it is actually a bad option in this metagame, also checking Volcarona, Tornadus-T, and with Earth Power, Heatran. I'm working on a nomination for it at the moment.
I've not used Diancie so I may be wrong, but I've seen a lot of Dragapult run Steel Wing, especially on DD sets
 
I've not used Diancie so I may be wrong, but I've seen a lot of Dragapult run Steel Wing, especially on DD sets
DD Steel Wing isn't the most common set by quite some margin. Specs/status pivot are the two most common and splashable. DD with steel wing only sees use on HO and you can easily recognize those team. Only set that can threaten an unexpected steel wing is choice band but that's even more uncommon than DD
 

ausma

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Hey everyone! I'm going to be doing the monthly usage post for TPP; cancel me for that all you please.

Code:
Combined usage for OU (1695 stats)
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Percent |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| 1    | Landorus-Therian   | 41.644% |
| 2    | Dragapult          | 24.814% |
| 3    | Garchomp           | 24.109% |
| 4    | Clefable           | 20.841% |
| 5    | Corviknight        | 20.683% |
| 6    | Heatran            | 20.177% |
| 7    | Zamazenta-Crowned  | 19.644% |
| 8    | Rillaboom          | 18.134% |
| 9    | Tapu Koko          | 15.670% |
| 10   | Ferrothorn         | 15.496% |
| 11   | Volcarona          | 15.179% |
| 12   | Toxapex            | 14.654% |
| 13   | Blissey            | 12.024% |
| 14   | Tapu Lele          | 11.131% |
| 15   | Kartana            | 11.036% |
| 16   | Zapdos             | 10.866% |
| 17   | Dragonite          | 10.726% |
| 18   | Slowking           | 10.579% |
| 19   | Tapu Fini          | 10.269% |
| 20   | Zeraora            | 10.119% |
| 21   | Urshifu-Rapid-Strike |  9.779% |
| 22   | Kyurem             |  8.796% |
| 23   | Slowbro            |  8.746% |
| 24   | Mandibuzz          |  8.742% |
| 25   | Bisharp            |  8.425% |
| 26   | Tornadus-Therian   |  8.403% |
| 27   | Hippowdon          |  7.737% |
| 28   | Slowking-Galar     |  7.450% |
| 29   | Magnezone          |  7.122% |
| 30   | Skarmory           |  6.924% |
| 31   | Melmetal           |  6.742% |
| 32   | Tyranitar          |  6.659% |
| 33   | Hawlucha           |  6.470% |
| 34   | Weavile            |  5.990% |
| 35   | Excadrill          |  5.971% |
| 36   | Swampert           |  5.742% |
| 37   | Hydreigon          |  5.039% |
| 38   | Victini            |  4.399% |
| 39   | Mew                |  4.344% |
| 40   | Nidoking           |  4.225% |
| 41   | Zapdos-Galar       |  4.151% |
| 42   | Regieleki          |  3.965% |
| 43   | Azumarill          |  3.944% |
| 44   | Aegislash          |  3.911% |
| 45   | Tangrowth          |  3.657% |
| 46   | Scizor             |  3.618% |
| 47   | Pelipper           |  3.428% |
| 48   | Chansey            |  3.315% |
| 49   | Cloyster           |  3.160% |
| 50   | Crawdaunt          |  3.141% |
| 51   | Blacephalon        |  3.091% |
| 52   | Latios             |  2.693% |
| 53   | Ninetales-Alola    |  2.690% |
| 54   | Reuniclus          |  2.464% |
| 55   | Rotom-Wash         |  2.459% |
| 56   | Gengar             |  2.257% |
| 57   | Mamoswine          |  2.215% |
| 58   | Barraskewda        |  2.160% |
| 59   | Buzzwole           |  2.125% |
| 60   | Quagsire           |  2.078% |
| 61   | Dracozolt          |  1.988% |
| 62   | Moltres            |  1.749% |
| 63   | Blaziken           |  1.737% |
| 64   | Hatterene          |  1.668% |
| 65   | Gastrodon          |  1.499% |
| 66   | Seismitoad         |  1.481% |
| 67   | Amoonguss          |  1.462% |
| 68   | Moltres-Galar      |  1.418% |
| 69   | Suicune            |  1.301% |
| 70   | Kommo-o            |  1.290% |
| 71   | Ditto              |  1.274% |
| 72   | Torkoal            |  1.253% |
| 73   | Jirachi            |  1.136% |
| 74   | Latias             |  1.101% |
| 75   | Grimmsnarl         |  1.074% |
| 76   | Marowak-Alola      |  1.051% |
| 77   | Arctozolt          |  1.050% |
| 78   | Keldeo             |  0.979% |
| 79   | Polteageist        |  0.969% |
| 80   | Conkeldurr         |  0.937% |
| 81   | Terrakion          |  0.910% |
| 82   | Thundurus-Therian  |  0.903% |
| 83   | Shuckle            |  0.900% |
| 84   | Celesteela         |  0.894% |
| 85   | Venusaur           |  0.888% |
| 86   | Togekiss           |  0.877% |
| 87   | Shedinja           |  0.869% |
| 88   | Tapu Bulu          |  0.840% |
| 89   | Kingdra            |  0.837% |
| 90   | Primarina          |  0.825% |
| 91   | Porygon2           |  0.824% |
| 92   | Salamence          |  0.822% |
| 93   | Cresselia          |  0.750% |
| 94   | Umbreon            |  0.733% |
| 95   | Alakazam           |  0.700% |
| 96   | Rotom-Heat         |  0.689% |
| 97   | Krookodile         |  0.650% |
| 98   | Zarude             |  0.642% |
| 99   | Mimikyu            |  0.560% |
| 100  | Diggersby          |  0.541% |
| 101  | Ribombee           |  0.534% |
| 102  | Starmie            |  0.518% |
| 103  | Toxtricity         |  0.510% |
| 104  | Volcanion          |  0.479% |
| 105  | Rhyperior          |  0.438% |
| 106  | Espeon             |  0.416% |
| 107  | Omastar            |  0.413% |
| 108  | Haxorus            |  0.398% |
| 109  | Gyarados           |  0.385% |
| 110  | Obstagoon          |  0.368% |
| 111  | Klefki             |  0.363% |
| 112  | Incineroar         |  0.356% |
| 113  | Nihilego           |  0.352% |
| 114  | Lycanroc-Dusk      |  0.347% |
| 115  | Snorlax            |  0.345% |
| 116  | Sylveon            |  0.341% |
| 117  | Araquanid          |  0.341% |
| 118  | Necrozma           |  0.321% |
| 119  | Zygarde-10%        |  0.304% |
| 120  | Azelf              |  0.295% |
| 121  | Sandslash-Alola    |  0.294% |
| 122  | Stakataka          |  0.287% |
| 123  | Charizard          |  0.285% |
| 124  | Darmanitan         |  0.276% |
| 125  | Gigalith           |  0.256% |
| 126  | Arctovish          |  0.255% |
| 127  | Heracross          |  0.251% |
| 128  | Slurpuff           |  0.235% |
| 129  | Articuno-Galar     |  0.223% |
| 130  | Scolipede          |  0.218% |
| 131  | Porygon-Z          |  0.195% |
| 132  | Raichu-Alola       |  0.195% |
| 133  | Milotic            |  0.195% |
| 134  | Aurorus            |  0.186% |
| 135  | Mantine            |  0.185% |
| 136  | Jolteon            |  0.182% |
| 137  | Chandelure         |  0.181% |
| 138  | Drampa             |  0.178% |
| 139  | Metagross          |  0.178% |
| 140  | Vaporeon           |  0.173% |
| 141  | Regidrago          |  0.168% |
| 142  | Nidoqueen          |  0.165% |
| 143  | Xatu               |  0.165% |
| 144  | Glastrier          |  0.162% |
| 145  | Weezing-Galar      |  0.160% |
| 146  | Salazzle           |  0.158% |
| 147  | Blastoise          |  0.155% |
| 148  | Sirfetch’d         |  0.144% |
| 149  | Stunfisk           |  0.143% |
| 150  | Eldegoss           |  0.142% |
| 151  | Sandaconda         |  0.139% |
| 152  | Thundurus          |  0.129% |
| 153  | Zoroark            |  0.129% |
| 154  | Mienshao           |  0.126% |
| 155  | Slowbro-Galar      |  0.126% |
| 156  | Golurk             |  0.124% |
| 157  | Vanilluxe          |  0.124% |
| 158  | Tentacruel         |  0.122% |
| 159  | Whimsicott         |  0.119% |
| 160  | Comfey             |  0.114% |
| 161  | Pyukumuku          |  0.110% |
| 162  | Talonflame         |  0.110% |
| 163  | Raboot             |  0.108% |
| 164  | Flygon             |  0.108% |
| 165  | Steelix            |  0.108% |
| 166  | Lucario            |  0.107% |
| 167  | Diancie            |  0.105% |
| 168  | Bronzong           |  0.105% |
| 169  | Sceptile           |  0.101% |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +

shoutouts to tpp

Something important to consider is that Zamazenta-C's suspect test did, in part, skew these usage statistics, meaning that some of these changes are more approximated for the current metagame than they might otherwise be.

Hypothetical Rises:


#43 -> #34

Although Weavile is the only Pokemon to hypothetically rise based on its April usage, its surge in viability and game-to-game use is not without reason. Both its Choice Band and Swords Dance sets have been making waves in the tier as of late, performing both as a superb wallbreaker with STAB Knock Off and a powerful win condition with a solid offensive typing and incredible speed tier to take advantage of. Even with the Zamazenta-C metagame skewing its viability, it broke past the threshold necessary to rise to OU. If this trend continues, seeing Weavile eventually rise for real would not be surprising.

Hypothetical Drops


#35 -> #42

The hype initially surrounding Regieleki has greatly diminished, as its inability to force any kind of progress against the tier's Ground-types and its very prediction-reliant nature make its otherwise terrifying attributes a pipe dream in most matchups. Prior to this point, Regieleki has seen some fringe use as a Screens setter for Hyper Offenses, boasting Explosion and Rapid Spin to provide suicidal momentum and ease switch-ins for abusers. However, in this department, it is tremendously outclassed by Tapu Koko which boasts Electric Surge, Taunt, and U-turn, as well as Grimmsnarl for its ability to check Dragapult and utilize Taunt, and Alolan Ninetales's wealth of utility. It just isn't really as great as we once thought it would be.


#33 -> #47

Pelipper's decreased use represents less a drop of use in itself, but rather a drop of use in the Rain archetype. Rain had quite a bit of hype around it a few months ago, however, the sad truth is that Rain is a volatile archetype, and it detests a lot of recent metagame trends, such as the rise of Kyurem. It is still viable, but the drop in use indicates that it faces a less-than-ideal environment to succeed as much as it used to.


#34 -> #40

Nidoking has been incrementally falling out of favor, and although it is still a very solid wallbreaker, its frailty and speed tier are catching up with it quite a bit, making it more difficult to operate to quite the same extent as it could a few months ago. It also dislikes the surge in Blissey and Slowking usage in spite of its coverage, and it is sadly setup fodder for most variants of rising star Volcarona. This drop in use isn't too sudden to the point where it downplays Nidoking's place in the tier, but it has been falling bit by bit for a while in spite of this and may show that a drop to UU is inbound.

Other Usage Shifts:


#26 -> #11

Volcarona has become bar none one of the best, most customizable win conditions in the tier with only two true counters being Heatran and Haze Toxapex, the latter of which can be beat given the right conditions, and its borderline top 10 usage is proof of this. It has seen a lot of use on both Hyper Offenses, Balanced Offenses, and even some balances due to how easily it can be facilitated and provided setup opportunities with a great defensive typing, Flame Body to punish physical attackers, and Quiver Dance to give it great ease in customizing its EV spread. Even without Zamazenta-C in the equation, Volcarona's incredible attributes as a setup sweeper make it a phenomenal pick in the metagame.


#41 -> #25

STAB Knock Off and Sucker Punch is kind of really good, especially with Future Sight to further aid Bisharp's onslaught. Similar to Weavile, Bisharp has been seeing use with both a Choice Band and with Swords Dance, and also boasts a pretty great typing all around that lets it pressure a majority of the tier's Dark-type resistances, as well as somewhat circumvent the Dragapult matchup on offenses. Even with Zamazenta-C in the equation, its impressive rise in use indicates that it is once more finding success in the metagame.


#31 -> #17

Dragonite's defensive utility in the current metagame is actually quite good. It is willing to stomach the onslaught of Kartana, Heatran, and Rillaboom, while also boasting access to a wealth of utility like Heal Bell and coverage options like Ice Beam and Earthquake that let its defensive set carve a great niche. In addition to this, Dragonite's Dragon Dance set is also finding success as a solid win condition, with Dual Wingbeat giving it a great general purpose STAB that let it toy with options like Heal Bell and Roost to play more to its bulk which is also reinforced by Multiscale.


#23 -> #35

I guess the Groundhog predicted another month or so of winter because Excadrill usage is hibernating. Excadrill is still a Sand balance staple and sports a great defensive typing and Rapid Spin, but sadly its niche is growing harder to justify as it faces greater competition against other Steel-types in a Magearna-less metagame. It still can keep Tapu Lele at bay with its SpDef variant, also boasting a speed tier capable of eclipsing Modest variants, but in spite of this, it is now facing much more stark competition.


#22 -> #37

Hydreigon's major drop in use is likely in part to the Zamazenta-C suspect, as it still boasts a great niche in the current metagame as an offensive check to Heatran and for its ability to pressure a majority of the tier with its immediate strength and great coverage options. However, its inability to check Dragapult as a Dark-type does create more competition for a team slot.

Here are the usual questions:

1. What were the most notable increases and decreases, and why do you think these mons are used more/less now?
2. What increases or decreases surprised you the most?
3. Among the mons with increased usage, what sets have you been using and enjoying?
4. Among the mons with decreased usage, what are your favorite sets for those mons?
5. What are your favorite mons to use in the current metagame?
6. What mons do you predict will continue to see increased usage?
7. What mons are you expecting to see a declining usage from?
8. What are some of your favorite cores to use?
9. How do you feel about the metagame?
10. Have you used any of the rising stars mentioned above? If so, how did they perform for you?
11. Are there any prominent replays from recent tournaments that you enjoyed and want to share? Any highlights worth discussing?
12: I hope you have a great rest of your day!

If you have any comments, questions, or concerns, feel free to message me or any other moderator! Thanks for reading!
 

TailGlowVM

The firelight of Manaphy
is a Pre-Contributor
1. What were the most notable increases and decreases, and why do you think these mons are used more/less now?
Bisharp and Weavile usage skyrocketing despite the Zama-C suspect is interesting. It shows how good they are, though how much of this is due to helping teams against Pult I do not know. As a side note, at 1695 nearly 40% of Pult have Dragon Darts, which suggests a lot of teams rely on it as a Volc answer. You already know what my response to the Eleki drop is.
2. What increases or decreases surprised you the most?
I said on the main usage stats thread that I'm shocked Nidoking could be dropping but not Swampert or Hawlucha!
3. Among the mons with increased usage, what sets have you been using and enjoying?
I really like Choice Band Bisharp and Swords Dance Weavile at the moment. Dark types (that beat Dragapult at least) are good in the post-Mag meta.
4. Among the mons with decreased usage, what are your favorite sets for those mons?
Hydreigon's standard 3 attacks and Nasty Plot sets are good. I think Sand Rush Excadrill is still good but wouldn't use the SpD set in this meta.
5. What are your favorite mons to use in the current metagame?
My favourites are Heatran, Dragapult, Landorus-T, Garchomp, and Corviknight - probably because I mostly like using proven stuff.
6. What mons do you predict will continue to see increased usage?
Weavile and Bisharp without Zamazenta-C. I think Kartana could also rise back to its March usage, and Victini's rise will probably continue.
7. What mons are you expecting to see a declining usage from?
Slowbro without Zamazenta-C, and hopefully Regieleki.
8. What are some of your favorite cores to use?
I think Zamazenta-C went well with just about anything.
9. How do you feel about the metagame?
Although clearly not perfect yet, it is obviously the best since... probably Gen 7!
10. Have you used any of the rising stars mentioned above? If so, how did they perform for you?
As I said above, Weavile and Bisharp are great, and Dragonite seems pretty good too.
11. Are there any prominent replays from recent tournaments that you enjoyed and want to share? Any highlights worth discussing?
No comment.
12: I hope you have a great rest of your day!
Thank you.
 
1. What were the most notable increases and decreases, and why do you think these mons are used more/less now?
Definitely :Volcarona: for the rises. It shot up due to how well it matched up against Zamazenta-C, but even after the suspect it remained pretty high on usage. I guess people realised how good it actually was with its bulky Quiver Dance set despite Heatran, Blissey and Toxapex, especially when all of those mons are prevalent and something you must account for already.
:Pelipper: has a tough spot because it enables an archetype that struggles too much with ongoing meta trends like Kyurem, fast Electric types, Rillaboom etc. I'm not surprised by its decline but it's quite funny when Rain's decline coincided with Urshifu-Rapid Strike's rise to prominence. :excadrill: is another interesting drop in usage, mainly due to the grass gorilla and absence of Magearna, I believe.
2. What increases or decreases surprised you the most?
Increase: :Dragonite:, especially the bulky defog/heal bell variants of all things. I always thought DD Roost was its best set, but it's rising as a defensive defogger with EQ+Ice Beam coverage to thwart most of the SR users it matches well up against. I don't think it's particularly awesome when many of the mon it checks carry Knock Off and dnite is a stealth rock weak defogger that relies on HDB to retain its niche provided by multiscale.
Decrease: :Mandibuzz:, it's surprising mainly due to how prevalent Dragapult is and buzz has always been a go-to check/counter for it. I think it's interesting that now we are talking about Dragapult as an issue exactly when meta trends have knocked down one of its best catch-all checks.
3. Among the mons with increased usage, what sets have you been using and enjoying?
:Weavile: is one of the coolest Pokémon ever made and I love it, CB is so powerful, I love it. goated mon. Also :Volcarona: is pretty interesting. Always love a good Fire type that can combine bulk and power. "Bulkarona" is another goated mon for sure.
4. Among the mons with decreased usage, what are your favorite sets for those mons?
I always was a fan of bulky Toxic :Excadrill:, I think it's quite solid, though the metal birds and inability to switch into zeraora as a ground type really hurt him. LO Roost :Hydreigon: is a sneaky good mon for balance builds, as not many offensive Pokémon have the unique niche of switching into Heatran and threatening HARD at the same time. Also probably the single best offensive defogger in the tier, even though it sucks that as a Dark type it loses to Pult.
5. What are your favorite mons to use in the current metagame?
CB Weavile, Bulkarona, AV Zone, Specs Lele, SD Bulu, CB/CS Dragapult.
6. What mons do you predict will continue to see increased usage?
Metal birds in general and Magnezone as a result. Skarmory is very underrated because its physically bulkier than Corviknight and has Spikes, which gives it an almost unique niche alongside Ferrothorn as a top tier spiker. Metal birds with Body Press are possibly the closest things to a Weavile/Bisharp counters and they do so for other strong physical behemoths like SD Chomp, SD lando, the holy trinity of grass types, DD nite and such. Zone can remove them though so I think its value might increase in spite of the top dogs powerhouses completely demolishing it.
7. What mons are you expecting to see a declining usage from?
Drill is looking real bad for me atm. Although it appreciates magnezone support theoretically, you can't fit them both into a team as they badly overlap as steel types, thus leaving it at the mercy of physically defensive metal birds to the end of time. Also, sand tends to be in a very precarious position against Rillaboom.
8. What are some of your favorite cores to use?
Status spam core + hex dragapult, spikes stacking, plus i was experimenting with shifu+torn+double weather as a fun gimmick.
9. How do you feel about the metagame?
Pretty alright, lots of fun stuff to use and moderate room for creativity, although building is very hard atm.
10. Have you used any of the rising stars mentioned above? If so, how did they perform for you?
Weavile and Volc, pretty powerful and fun to use.
11. Are there any prominent replays from recent tournaments that you enjoyed and want to share? Any highlights worth discussing?
Nope
12: I hope you have a great rest of your day!
Thank you! Same goes for you and for everyone who spent time reading this.
 
1. :Weavile: having the usage to join ou. Ice stabs is just so good right now but I still think this mon is shaky with all the body press spamming metal birds

:Volcarona: all because of the stupid fucking boots. God I fucking hate that item. A complete hit or miss mon is now suddenly one that you have to account for. For fuck's sake

:Dragonite: I am legit wondering if gamefreak's fetish does not end with Charizard but with all gen one mons. Still have no idea why this was ever given multiscale

:Pelipper: almost out of ou. I'm not the least bit surprised about this. Facing a rain team when you have a Kyurem is one of the most hilarious things in the game


2. :Landorus-Therian: having forty one percent usage. Like what the hell? I thought this would only have about twenty five to thirty percent usage. God that Zamazenta suspect messed things up

:Nidoking: being at number forty. I was honestly expecting it to be lower than that since this mon is garbage right now


3. Scarf :Garchomp: is one of my favorites right now. It's so satisfying to kill Dragapult before the battle even begins


4. Band :Tyranitar: is another one of the fun mons I like. Spamming stone edge and getting kills nearly every time it is used is oddly satisfying

Nasty plot life orb :Hydreigon: is another mon that I've been loving to use. Dark pulse, flash cannon and a random fourth move actually makes it quite a threat, only stopped by Blissey. It is rather annoying that I have to dance around Dragapult and Koko if I wanna use this damn thing

5. :Garchomp: is still my favorite and most used mon. Rather ironic that I was super hyped when it got scale shot and it is actually the team I have the most difficulty building. I never realized how much I relied on Garchomp to put in stealth rock with its mixed and wall breaker set or simply to revenge kill stuff with scarf

:Dragapult: still my second favorite mon to use. Sub status hex is always nice and specs is just so brainless

:Tapu Lele: is a definite third for me. I think that it is the single best wall breaker in the tier, at least among the choiced wall breakers. The ability to contest Rillaboom's terrain and threaten to drop something is just so good

Specially defensive :Toxapex:. I just love this mon. Being able to eat anything Dragapult throws at it and threaten big damage with knock off is such a life saver. It's ability to be annoying alone already makes it very fun to use and with toxic spikes, yeah it's just hilarious

:Corviknight: ironically is among my favorites. I have a love and hate relationship with this thing. I love how this thing screws over stuff like dumbass Weavile and Bisharp but I hate how difficult this is to break especially with iron defense body press

:Kyurem: is also another fun one for me. Ice stabs are extremely spammable since most resist to it is Heatran, which can be tricky but can get worn down by draco meteors. Not ranking this higher because I'm usually too lazy to defog and I only use specs

:Tapu Bulu: is actually very fun to use. I never realized this thing got close combat and boy, is it a lot of fun. It can somewhat counter Rillaboom, can still function without life orb if it got knocked off and predicting which move to use on it is rather easy

Last is banded :Tyranitar:. This mon is actually a massive threat with its higher than Garchomp attack and stab stone edge, I mean stone miss. It's in the same boat as Kyurem and Lele where switching into them is a massive pain and revenge killed by everything in the tier but can dish out massive damage


6. I'd guess :Weavile: and :Bisharp: because dark stab is just so good right now


7. :Landorus-therian:. I know its good but really, forty one percent? Jesus

:Pelipper: because of how a single mon, Kyurem, completely rips rain to shreds

:Tornadus-therian:. Utility sets are still good but I feel like as a defogger, metal birds are far more useful. Offensive sets suck so much on this which is why I think it drops. Doesn't matter if you get the best guns. If you don't know how to aim, you will lose. That's exactly Tornadus' situation


8 :Corviknight: + :Toxapex: because it is probably the single most reliable defensive core that handles most of the meta game

Scarf :Garchomp: + slow wall breakers like :Hydreigon:, :tapu Bulu:, life orb :Kartana: because scarf Chomp is an assassin hired by the slow wall breakers to eliminate Dragapult

Sub hex :Dragapult: + toxic spikes :toxapex:. Should be obvious why

9. I feel like there is too many offensive threats to defensively handle but none too broken. I think that it actually promotes aggressive play styles and double switches. It's like a situation where 'yes that Garchomp is scary but my Dragapult outspeeds it. But if it gets scale shot then my Dragapult dies so I need to get Pult in before it scale shots so I can kill it'. It actually made me a better player since the Urshifu ban since I don't have a laid back play style anymore and I'm no longer using that :Buzzwole:, :Zapdos: and :Blissey: defensive core which walls the entire fucking metagame. While its still not my favorite metagame, I like how it rewards aggression and I can say for a fact that it made me a better player

10. Not really. I don't really care about any trends. I use whatever I want fuck the trends

11. Nope. I never watch tournaments of any game

12. Thanks. You too
 
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I kid but I do find it sometimes bizarre what constitutes adequate and inadequate counterplay in OU. I think boots have just completely tipped the scales in Volcs favor this gen
The difference is that seismitoad was a suboptimal mon unlike tran who always was a top tier threat that is able to consistently switchin as well.defensive Dnite can also be used alternatively for volc btw
 

TailGlowVM

The firelight of Manaphy
is a Pre-Contributor
------>


I kid but I do find it sometimes bizarre what constitutes adequate and inadequate counterplay in OU
Heatran is an amazing Pokemon that does loads beyond being a Volcarona counter. It traps in and eliminates passive Pokemon like Toxapex and Blissey, making it stall's worst nightmare, it can switch into STAB moves from threatening Pokemon like Tapu Lele, Kyurem, Rillaboom and Dragapult, it's a Future Sight absorber and it's a decent Stealth Rock setter - in fact the only viable one that beats the main Defogger, Corviknight.

Seismitoad is a garbage Pokemon that disappeared into nothingness post-Dracovish, has subpar bulk (it actually gets 2HKOed by banded Outrage), and doesn't do a lot else - it lost to all the viable Defoggers, unlike the actually good Stealth Rock setters like Kommo-o, and anything else it walled was covered far more effectively by other Pokemon in the tier.
 
------>


I kid but I do find it sometimes bizarre what constitutes adequate and inadequate counterplay in OU. I think boots have just completely tipped the scales in Volcs favor this gen
I mean... Heatran is actually good not like Seismitoad, if you're making that comparison then it just is plain wrong, there's also Ttar and his sand(and as bonus doesn't get trapped by AV Magnezone), and yes Boots sometimes are stupid but so are hazards without them, are we really sure that we're gonna like another meta centralized in hazards? I mean just don't use it as your method to deal with Volc, use things like Defensive Nite, Heatran and Ttar, even your idea of Lycanroc is good against Volc if you're not to use one of these three examples(and also provides Stealth Rock)
 
------>


I kid but I do find it sometimes bizarre what constitutes adequate and inadequate counterplay in OU
Volcarona counter ?
:ss/talonflame:
If u search some issue out of :heatran: , can't some Aqua-Jet fit in volca's *ss ?
:choice-band: :crawdaunt: is the devil children of :urshifu-rapid-strike: and :bisharp:
Adamant 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Volcarona: 384-452 (102.9 - 121.1%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 192-228 (57.4 - 68.2%)
Jolly band-daunt outspeeding mandibuzz : Crabhammer vs. 248 HP / 60+ Def Mandibuzz: 254-300 (60 - 70.9%)
252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Volcarona: 348-412 (93.2 - 110.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
Also volca is taking hit while set-up, so Jolly isn't that bad for the job.

► Problem with choicers and set-up sweepers ?
Have
:ss/pyukumuku:
for adoption.​
Rillaboom disagree.
 
1. What were the most notable increases and decreases, and why do you think these mons are used more/less now?

A: The Volcarona increase in usage is the most blatant one to discuss. Volcarona has shown over the past couple weeks how excellent of a set up sweeper it is. I have been using it quite a bit on all kinds of teams, but I’ve been enjoying using it on rain the most. Volcs ability to set up on the two biggest threats to rain, rilla and specs Kyurem. It forces the opponent to choose if they want to kill Barraskewda with banded grassy glide and get set up on by Volc or continue to let Skewda wreak havoc. Excadrills decrease in usage to me is no surprise either. Along with having to compete with chomp and lando for the ground spot, it has trouble breaking teams when corv and skarm are so common and rilla can come in and revenge kill it at any time. I would not be surprised to see Drill drop to UU.

2. What increases or decreases surprised you the most?

A: Dragonite for sure. It has flown under the radar for quite a while, but bulky DNite has finally shown how good it is. It’s a a amazing Grass/Heatran check, and some teams just can’t break it.

3. Among the mons with increased usage, what sets have you been using and enjoying?

A: I have been enjoying using special boots Victini quite a bit. I initially used it as a Zama check, but it’s great defensive typing helps it come in on mons like Heatran / the birds.

4. Among the mons with decreased usage, what are your favorite sets for those mons?

A: I’ve been enjoying using NP Torn quite a bit. Idk why this mons usage has dropped of so much, I’m guessing it might have been because of Zama.

5. What are your favorite mons to use in the current metagame?

A: Specs Pult, QD Volc and Terrakion. Specs Pult is super degenerate so it suits my play style extremely well. Volc is such a funny mon cause sometimes it can just randomly pull 6-0s from out of nowhere. Also super degenerate. Terrakion with FS Support is quite an effective breaker, and I can’t wait for it to become more mainstream.

6. What mons do you predict will continue to see increased usage?

A: Corv and Urshifu. Corv is such a good blanket check to pretty much everything that isn’t electric and fire, along with bringing great defog and U turn support. Urshifu is a cool breaker with an awesome bonus of destroying Volcarona, not matter how many boosts it has.

7. What mons are you expecting to see a declining usage from?

A: Hydreigon and Slowbro. Hydreigon is in this awkward spot where it’s not bad, it’s just hopelessly outclassed by Dragapult. Hydreigons speed tier is also unfortunate, leaving it outsped by common revenge killers such as chomp and Volcarona. Slowbro is just worse Slowking. Everything Bro does King does way better.

12: I hope you have a great rest of your day!

A: You too! I’m relatively new to this so could someone explain how you get the sprites? Thanks!
 
Counters/strong checks
:heatran: :tyranitar: :dragonite: :victini: :toxapex:(toxic/haze, spdef) :blissey:(any variant without safeguard) :slowking-galar:(assault vest+power gem, very specific but that's only for the wildest players)


one-time checks
:dragapult: (darts/twave) :garchomp:(stone edge) :landorus-therian:(specially defensive with a rock move) :tapu lele:(specs lives any hit and OHKO w psyshock)

revengekillers
:urshifu-rapid-strike: :crawdaunt: :azumarill: :lycanroc-dusk: :excadrill:(sand, rock move, only +1)

some of these are shakey, but most of them are pretty valid options even outside of the context of dealing with volcarona. hdb definitely boosted it to high heavens, but bordeline unhealthy? it is a big threat but i wouldn't go that far.

also let's not hate hdb because it made some mons very good/broken. I enjoy having the chance to use some flying, fire, ice and bug types that just happened to be unlucky in their type matchup and become unviable because of it. I enjoy playing games when I don't have to stress out trying to find a way click defog without giving up all the momentum because hazards (mainly stealth rocks) are op. it's a good item, but in my opinion it's much better dealing with it than dealing with entry hazards 24/7.
 
Not to say that Volcarona isn't amazing, but it isn't a secret that Zamazenta was a big reason as to the jump in usage during April. It was far and away the best offensive answer that, regardless of opting for a bulkier moveset or not, could offer way more firepower than the often bulkier variants of Chomp and Lando on top of being easier to put on a team than Victini, Buzzwole, or Aegislash.

I 100% expect Volcarona to drop down to where it was before the suspect test.
 
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