Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #3539)

For starters, Mandibuzz, Clefable, and Toxapex can at very least check both sets with their most common variants barring Shadow Ball drops or crits. But beyond this, any argument about Dragapult being a problem should not stem from this at all.

It is incredibly easy to decipher if Dragapult is DD or not from team preview. DD is super uncommon to begin with and only has any viability on more offensive teams, particularly on hyper offense. And on hyper offense, you seldom see specs Dragapult as locking into the wrong move (or even the right one after a fodder) can lead to a huge problem as a free turn is suddenly opened up for the opponent, which HO struggles to deal with.

If you struggle to decipher Dragapult sets at preview (beyond boots status vs specs, which have a massive amount of overlap and you can even figure out some of the time) when talking about DD vs specially based, that’s absolutely on you as a player. If you struggle against DD Dragapult in general, a set that has been subpar and uncommon for months, then that’s far more on teambuilding issues than it is anything else. There are a myriad of viable checks and counters.

Choice Specs Dragapult is a menace and I understand frustrations about it, but the versatility card is being misapplied here and other sets simply do not belong in the same discussion.
I think you're reading too much into my post. I legit was just curious as to what pokemon FCKNfuego was thinking about.


On a more interesting topic than the constant debate about Dragapult, I decided to do an analysis of some WCoP trends.

:ss/landorus_therian:
1. Specially Defensive Landorus-T
If you look at the VR, you'll see most of the main physical attackers in this meta can potentially beat Landorus-T - Urshifu and Bisharp effectively ignore Intimidate, Weavile is Ice-type, Rillaboom, Kartana and Melmetal hit too hard for it to check them, Dragonite and offensive Landorus-T both can just use it as setup fodder. Lando is only really reliable against Zeraora. Being the ultimate utility belt/glue mon, of course people wouldn't just stop using it - instead they switched to specially defensive spreads, which are more reliable than physical defense against Dracozolt and Tapu Koko and check Volcarona and Heatran, while still checking Zeraora.
I agree completely here.

On a related note, I've noticed more Hawlucha usage on the ladder. This coincides with the disappearance of slowbro and toxapex being forced to run more specially defensive builds to deal with specs dragapult. OG zapdos is seeing less usage as well, and the trend of landorus going more spdef oriented is even better for the fighting little bird.

At the earlier days of the meta I thought Hawlucha would never be high since we have such a fat, slow meta, but pokemon that dissuade it's use are slowly fading in obscurity. Never underestimate it's ability to sweep a team though, after an unburden it outspeeds virtually anything (save barraskewda in rain), has access to swords dance, high bp stab moves, and a free fourth move slot to fit in whatever it pleases-Taunt, Stone Edge, Poison Jab, Substitute, or Roost. I'm interested to see how the meta continues to develop from this point.
 
felt like talking abt something since thread feels pretty quiet
:ss/victini:
I thought this pokemon was really mediocre at best for the longest time but after watching a few Wcop games with it and getting absolutely annihilated by tigers jaw in friendlies, I figured I just needed to give it more of a fair shot, and yea, its pretty solid. I wouldn't call it incredible but its a cool wallbreaker with cool defensive utility that bypasses the need for Choice Lock by just having real high BP Stab and colorful coverage.
Victini @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- U-turn
- Glaciate
vs offensive builds you can kinda just predict decently and dismantle a lot of them because you 2hko the vast majority of their staples (Lando, Slowking, Tapu Fini, etc) or its Heatran and you 3hko with like really easy to achieve chip. Paired W/ Koko, it can also threaten fat a good bit and ease prediction a lot via just hitting alot harder lol. on top of this, the defensive utility is pretty apparent, Lele Kyu Rillaboom check with a good speed tier and solid as hell bulk.
its alright
 
Hello again, since there does not seem to be a lot of discussion, I wanted to take a shot at highlighting a pokemon that I think is very underrated on our current metagame, that being Tapu Bulu, particularly Assault vest Tapu Bulu:

1623714070786.png


Tapu Bulu @ Assault Vest
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 196 HP / 164 Atk / 148 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Horn Leech
- Focus Punch
- High Horsepower
- Rock Slide

Before I give you my favorite calcs that this set provides, I want to give you a quick overview of what this set is designed to do. I like to think of this set as an answer to the balance teams that I`ve been seeing in the last two weeks in the middle ladder (1500s-1700s) where every single team has a combination of landoT, Heatran, Clef, a defensive bird, most likely corvi or mandi, a Rillaboom, a Tapu Fini and a Dragapult. What this Tapu Bulu set achieves against these kinds of teams, is a defensive switch in to all of these mons (besides brave bird on corvi, toxic on landot and only two switches tops against magma storm/LO CM clef flamethower) and threatens with either big damage or a swing in momentum because of how it neutralizes these threats, while outspeeding even 128 spe Heatran and no speed landoT. Focus punch allows it to threaten Corvi, Mandi, Tran and Ferro on the switch, forcing them to either roost, which if read with another focus punch means death, or attack, which means that they will eat a rock slide/high horsepower and be very weakened the next turn. Horn leech doesnt need much explanation I think, its a great move that guarantees winning the 1v1 against lando and other mons like chomp. Rock slide also allows it to threaten moltres and volc, while high horsepower hits the rest of the tier at least neutral and one shots tran after you switch into it.

Now, I am not really trying to offer this set as an offensive powerhouse, it requires a lot of offensive reading sometimes and if burned is useless. However, where I think this mon really shines is in its capacity to create this opportunities to make the offensive reads by switching in to a lot of the tier and provide grassy terrain support to its team. Now on to the relevant defensive calcs:

(Im not gonna show how good it does againt mons like Rilla, Lando or non-blazekick zera because I dont think its necessary, it absolutely counters them)

If you know the Volcarona on the opposing team is the bulky set, you can switch into it as it QDs, take rocks and a flamethrower the next turn and OHKO with rock slide

+1 0 SpA Volcarona Flamethrower vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tapu Bulu: 264-312 (80 - 94.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

If the Volcarona on the opposing team is the offensive set, you can take a flametrower/fiery dance and OHKO with rock slide

252+ SpA Volcarona Flamethrower vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tapu Bulu: 234-276 (70.9 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

0 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tapu Bulu: 188-224 (56.9 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery and trapping damage

252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tapu Bulu: 114-135 (34.5 - 40.9%) -- 59.2% chance to 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Flamethrower vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tapu Bulu: 170-202 (51.5 - 61.2%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery (this means that if you horn leech in the 1v1 you get to live two, plus u got pult locked into flamethrower)

252 SpA Life Orb Garchomp Fire Blast vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tapu Bulu: 159-187 (48.1 - 56.6%) -- 32.8% chance to 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery (you have the advantage in this 1v1 even if the chomp reads correctly to go for fire blast on your switch in and hits it both times)

252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tapu Bulu: 109-130 (33 - 39.3%) -- 18.4% chance to 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

252 SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tapu Bulu: 88-105 (26.6 - 31.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO (which means that if you are willing to give up your assault vest, you can always switch in comfortably against any kind of fini, including scarf)

252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Close Combat vs. 196 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 130-153 (39.3 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

136 SpA Life Orb Dracozolt Fire Blast vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tapu Bulu: 140-166 (42.4 - 50.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery (you can switch in once into dracozolt and force a switch out with high horsepower)

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tapu Bulu: 124-148 (37.5 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 196 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 260-307 (78.7 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery (but you outspeed it anyways, still relevant because of Trick room)

252+ Atk Choice Band Barraskewda Liquidation vs. 196 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu in Rain: 147-173 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

there are some other calcs that I didnt mention, including all the offensive ones, but I think this should be enough of a motivation to use this set or maybe tweak it a little bit to your liking, if you are interested in using this mon and dont know how to implement it on a team, I have found some success (peaked 1850s) with this team: https://pokepast.es/c523465f166fdfd0 in which Tapu Bulu provides great defensive answers and a grassy terrain support which is greatly appreciated by a team that would greatly struggle against EQ otherwise and also really makes use of the passive recovery it provides.

I hope I was clear enough on this post and thank you a lot for reading until the end.
 
Last edited:
So do you guys already discussed about dropping Calyrex Ice rider into OU?



The dude is the wallbreaker we all are asking for shut down stall in this gen for good (anyone misses hoopa unbound?), it just doesnt fit in ubers and OU should be its place. just to sum things up:

- Horrible typing, having 6 weakness incluiding to stealth rocks, knock off and u-turn, you know the 3 most used moves in the game, and also ghost. You never can say this thing hasn't counter play that isn't avaiable everywere in OU.
- Yeah it has a better bulk than kyurem, but no roost, has more weakness and less resistances. The dude just cant just come the field whenever it wants(which is true for most Ubers in an OU environment)
- Yeah i know it has monstruous movepool, and it has nasty surprises as the rare grass coverage to deal with slow twins and fini, but its that we are needing for a wall breaker (that doesnt need to carry setup and become pex bait), the fact it cant kill most walls of the meta without dying afterwards keeps it in check on its use, being out of question its dominance. Having free switches just on the fat dudes and pretty much nothing else. Still it cant risk a scald, so even its wall breaker capabilities can be a bit questionable.
- It can bypass the omnipreset heatram, since it can take one magma storm (and only one) if at full health, if not it just become useless against the fire frog, making a good addition to incentive good play, as you need to preserve this thing to kill its probably best check
- its ability is useless, since never it will be snowballing with that speed, and being easy to be revenge killed, maybe only agaisnt full stall, or inside trick room(which isnt that good anyway)
- It hit just as hard as Melmetal, but is a lot more limited than it because of its high number of weakness. but I doubt it will hold a band, kyurem can hold specs because of resistances, the same applies to melmetal, this dude has no key resistances, subpar speed and bunch of common OU weakness that will at maximum trade a mon for another.
- It can help balance a bit dragapult, while being letal in front of it, it can take one hit and shut down the stupid dragon.

This is just my initial throught about it, i know its bulk, offences and movepool is absurd, but it has so many flaws in typing and speed... anyway i want to know more opinions from you guys, if im missing the point of this guy staying in ubers, i would like to know. thanks!
 
Last edited:

Endrism

formerly SlippySlappySwampy
So do you guys already discussed about dropping Calyrex Ice rider into OU?



The dude is the wallbreaker we all are asking for shut down stall in this gen for good (anyone misses hoopa unbound?), it just doesnt fit in ubers and OU should be its place. just to sum things up:

- Horrible typing, having 6 weakness incluiding to stealth rocks, knock off and u-turn, you know the 3 most used moves in the game, and also ghost. You never can say this thing hasn't counter play that isn't avaiable everywere in OU.
- Yeah it has a better bulk than kyurem, but no roost, has more weakness and less resistances. The dude just cant just come the field whenever it wants(which is true for most Ubers in an OU environment)
- Yeah i know it has monstruous movepool, and it has nasty surprises as the rare grass coverage to deal with slow twins and fini, but its that we are needing for a wall breaker, the fact it cant kill most walls of the meta without dying afterwards keeps it in check on its use. Having free switches just on the fat dudes and pretty much nothing else. Still it cant risk a scald, so even its wall breaker capabilities can be questionable.
- It can bypass the omnipreset heatram, since it can take one magma storm (and only one) if at full health, if not it just become useless against the fire frog, making a good addition to incentive good play, as you need to preserve this thing to kill its probably best check
- its ability is useless, since never it will be snowballing with that speed, maybe only agaisnt full stall, or inside trick room(which isnt that good)
- It hit just as hard as Melmetal, but is a lot more limited than it because of its high number of weakness. but I doubt it will hold a band, kyurem can hold specs because of resistances, the same applies to melmetal, this dude has no key resistances, subpar speed and bunch of common OU weakness that will at maximum trade a mon for another.
- It can help balance a bit dragapult, while being letal in front of it, it can take one hit and shut down the stupid dragon.

This is just my initial throught about it, i know its bulk and movepool is absurd, but it has so many flaws in typing and speed... anyway i want to know more opinions from you guys, if im missing the point of this guy staying in ubers, i would like to know. thanks!
Absolutely not. This thing would be an absolute monster. Especially like an AV set would eat 1, maybe 2 super effective specs pult shadow balls before being in range of falling, it has a 130 power 100 accuracy stab ice move that would destroy the entire meta, and things that dont drop to Lance will drop to CC, Zen Headbutt, High Horsepower, Body Press, Lash Out, Megahorn, Seed Bomb, Outrage, Heavy Slam, Crunch, or Superpower. This things movepool is absolutely bonkers, its bulk is too much, its power is off the charts.

252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Calyrex-Ice: 174-206 (43.1 - 51.1%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO
 
Last edited:

Zen

formerly zeno420
is a Tiering Contributor
So do you guys already discussed about dropping Calyrex Ice rider into OU?



The dude is the wallbreaker we all are asking for shut down stall in this gen for good (anyone misses hoopa unbound?), it just doesnt fit in ubers and OU should be its place. just to sum things up:

- Horrible typing, having 6 weakness incluiding to stealth rocks, knock off and u-turn, you know the 3 most used moves in the game, and also ghost. You never can say this thing hasn't counter play that isn't avaiable everywere in OU.
- Yeah it has a better bulk than kyurem, but no roost, has more weakness and less resistances. The dude just cant just come the field whenever it wants(which is true for most Ubers in an OU environment)
- Yeah i know it has monstruous movepool, and it has nasty surprises as the rare grass coverage to deal with slow twins and fini, but its that we are needing for a wall breaker (that doesnt need to carry setup and become pex bait), the fact it cant kill most walls of the meta without dying afterwards keeps it in check on its use, being out of question its dominance. Having free switches just on the fat dudes and pretty much nothing else. Still it cant risk a scald, so even its wall breaker capabilities can be a bit questionable.
- It can bypass the omnipreset heatram, since it can take one magma storm (and only one) if at full health, if not it just become useless against the fire frog, making a good addition to incentive good play, as you need to preserve this thing to kill its probably best check
- its ability is useless, since never it will be snowballing with that speed, and being easy to be revenge killed, maybe only agaisnt full stall, or inside trick room(which isnt that good anyway)
- It hit just as hard as Melmetal, but is a lot more limited than it because of its high number of weakness. but I doubt it will hold a band, kyurem can hold specs because of resistances, the same applies to melmetal, this dude has no key resistances, subpar speed and bunch of common OU weakness that will at maximum trade a mon for another.
- It can help balance a bit dragapult, while being letal in front of it, it can take one hit and shut down the stupid dragon.

This is just my initial throught about it, i know its bulk and movepool is absurd, but it has so many flaws in typing and speed... anyway i want to know more opinions from you guys, if im missing the point of this guy staying in ubers, i would like to know. thanks!
Stay off the weed bro
 

ausma

what it be what it do
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Social Media Contributoris an Artistis a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
OU Forum Leader
The dude is the wallbreaker we all are asking for shut down stall in this gen for good
1623873008672.png


I appreciate the discussion but we really should not be dropping broken Pokemon down for the sake of handling certain archetypes, especially because that said archetype that inspired this post is already doing really horribly right now for a wealth of different reasons. Moreover, banning Glacial Lance just to make it "balanced" falls under a complex ban, which has been explained in depth by others in this thread as a dangerous precedent due to it enabling slippery slopes, where we can create super complex tiering decisions for other Uber Pokemon simply because "they technically aren't broken if we just don't allow use of x or y". In doing so, we take away the control factor of determining when a particular complex ban is too much and take away actual, organic metagame development.

To explain the issue further, there are a lot of reasons as to why this Pokemon would be broken and overcentralizing in the metagame, including but not limited to its powerful STAB, strong coverage, access to Agility and Trick Room, and ability to easily snowball with As One after finding one or two simple opportunities (which is not too hard given its bulk) to break teams with little to no sweat. Bluntly, I don't think I could be convinced that this Pokemon would not be broken, or at the bare minimum not overcentralizing due to how easily it can be enabled by other Pokemon and even enable itself with its utility movepool.

I'll be stopping this conversation short right now. Do not discuss this matter further; posts doing so will be deleted.
 
1623873244132.png


:ss/weavile:

Weavile @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Triple Axel
- Knock Off
- Ice Shard

after watching the xray vs vusty game in wcop r1, weavile's presence in the meta shedded light directly into my face. this mon has been insane in wcop- particularly the sd set which garnered a lot of attention recently. two thick layers of offensive counterplay were removed in the coming months which allowed it to slowly rise on the vr and in usage; people started to realize how dangerous it was. fantastic punish game, dangerous offensive typing, at +2 your defensive core falls apart. weavile's prio ice shard makes it a great lategame cleaner- you have a few defensive options such as scizor, corviknight, skarmory, helmet pex as a means to punish it, etc.

difficult to play longterm games with gking / kanto slowking in the back to pressure its defensive checks further while avoiding hazard damage w/ boots. weavile is having a field day in the current metagame especially with its offensive partners like tapu koko, whirlpool / scarf fini and such. i find cb to still be decent but easier for the opp to win with hazards if its your biggest threat in the back, making it easily punishable and being forced to make plays.

use this mon btw
 
Last edited:
Hello Smogon, I am posting this message to you on my personal opinion concerning the current OU metagame and my feelings on the strategy at the moment. I find that the SS OU metagame is really bad because of a pokemon called kyurem which for me deserves at least a suspect test because the pressure it puts on the build (at least for me) is quite monstrous thanks to its set choice specs typing very hard and having little switch in as well as its very effective substitute set against stall, the pokemon is the main reason why scizor is more and more played in OU precisely me in my builds a lot of my teams have a scizor or a blissey so much kyurem is a threat, that's why I would say that it deserves at least a suspect test. Besides I found very interesting to test zamazenta crowned in OU in April it allowed to renew a little the metagame, precisely I thought about why not a suspect test of zygarde in OU thanks to several reasons which I will state: first of all I would say that in the current metagame there are many pokémons capable either of revenge kill zygarde or of the manage in a way re defensive I could state for example weavile which is extremely strong and popular nowadays and which would make a very good revenge killer in zygarde there is also kyurem of which I spoke above which with its very good bulk can tank and threaten very strongly zygarde there is also defensive dragonite with heal bell and ice beam to avoid being haxx by glare, there is also slowbro which is played with ice beam and which tanks zygarde very well with the possibility of burning it with scald, i will not not state the whole list I could also have mentioned landorus therian mandibuzz and clefable but in short for me zygarde would be a very interesting pokemon to suspect test in OU and that would also make it possible to bring something new to the 8th generation strategy as we have it currently know. That was all I had to say and on this I wish you happiness !!!
 
Last edited:
Hello Smogon, I am posting this message to you on my personal opinion concerning the current OU metagame and my feelings on the strategy at the moment. I find that the SS OU metagame is really bad because of a pokemon called kyurem which for me deserves at least a suspect test because the pressure it puts on the build (at least for me) is quite monstrous thanks to its set choice specs typing very hard and having little switch in as well as its very effective substitute set against stall, the pokemon is the main reason why scizor is more and more played in OU precisely me in my builds a lot of my teams have a scizor or a blissey so much kyurem is a threat, that's why I would say that it deserves at least a suspect test. Besides I found very interesting to test zamazenta crowned in OU in April it allowed to renew a little the metagame, precisely I thought about why not a suspect test of zygarde in OU thanks to several reasons which I will state: first of all I would say that in the current metagame there are many pokémons capable either of revenge kill zygarde or of the manage in a way re defensive I could state for example weavile which is extremely strong and popular nowadays and which would make a very good revenge killer in zygarde there is also kyurem of which I spoke above which with its very good bulk can tank and threaten very strongly zygarde there is also defensive dragonite with heal bell and ice beam to avoid being haxx by glare, there is also slowbro which is played with ice beam and which tanks zygarde very well with the possibility of burning it with scald, i will not not state the whole list I could also have mentioned landorus therian mandibuzz and clefable but in short for me zygarde would be a very interesting pokemon to suspect test in OU and that would also make it possible to bring something new to the 8th generation strategy as we have it currently know. That was all I had to say and on this I wish you happiness !!!
Personally very much disagree with a Zygarde suspect, but that's a whole can of worms I'll let someone else open.

Kyurem on the other hand is not deserving of a suspect test in the slightest, for a few reasons.
It's first immediate downfall is it's weakness to stealth rock, which doesn't allow sets like specs or scarf to thrive very well, as well as crippling it to the point where most faster mons have decent chances of KOing it due to it's middling speed.

The Specs set is extremely prediction reliant, but can lead to good results as you said, steel types in general will be a decent check to kyurem most of the time, which usually forces specs sets to second guess and make a bold prediction. However there are pokemon that can check kyurem and scout all of it's moves as well, mons like galarian slowking, regular slowking (Assuming you aren't too low), SPDef Scizor, Bulky Volcarona, the egg twins, SPDef Clef and the rare Aegislash.

While it definitely is a great progress forcer, it pales in comparison to other strong breakers like SD Chomp and Heatran (Hence why it's rated lower). All kyurem sets are also very easily revenge killed with Dragapult, it's more omnipresent dragon partner.

Stall in general isn't doing that great right now, and Kyurem's substitute set is most definitely not the reason why stall is suffering, most Blissey's tend to completely wall sub Kyurem unless it specifically runs a moveslot for it by running icicle spear, which makes it's steel matchup nearly impossible.

Overall Kyurem is definitely a strong pokemon, but it's overeliance on getting choice specs reads correct, weakness to hazards and it's tendency to get revenge killed easily due to it's ice type definitely don't make it that large of a problem.
 
I want to thank you for your opinion indeed the fact that kyurem is weak in stealth rocks as well as its very bad ice type limit it a lot but you see it is a little bit like dracovish it is a pokemon that does absolutely scandalous damage but very easy to revenge kill and yet the pokemon has been banned the concern I have with kyurem is the fact that it haxx quite often for example freeze with ice beam etc in addition to that the pokemon has a coverage just perfect and tanks very well the attacks there is also the fact that it puts a huge pressure on the teambuilding for example in many of my teams I force myself to play scizor only to counter kyurem indeed he still has some checks but a good number of his pokémons will be made pp stall by kyurem with a substitute and roost to give a somewhat clear example I had played a match where the opposing kyurem had freeze my heatran on an ice beam and that was absolute ent changed the whole game in short I totally respect your opinion Concerning zygarde, yes the pokemon is very strong but we must not forget that the pokemon was banned mainly because of its power in itself the pokemon is not very strong basic he does not type very hard he has a correct speed but nothing more and has common weaknesses it is especially that he scams a lot of games because of glare but in my opinion in 8th generation many pokémons are able to succeed in check zygarde while being paralyzed like those I mentioned above slowbro landorus clefable mandibuzz etc moreover the pokemon lost the Z moves which could surprise the clefable which clearly hurt him I find that the pokemon would not be too centralizing as it was in 7th generation where there were few pokémons able to check it and once again I don't think it would bring negative to the metagame on the contrary zygarde would allow to have a good big check to heatran, zapdos, zeraora and so on it would also serve as a good alternative to garchomp afterwards and to conclude this would allow to bring novelty to the current metagame which for the moment has not changed since the month of May once again thank you very much for your opinion !!!
 
I want to thank you for your opinion indeed the fact that kyurem is weak in stealth rocks as well as its very bad ice type limit it a lot but you see it is a little bit like dracovish it is a pokemon that does absolutely scandalous damage but very easy to revenge kill and yet the pokemon has been banned the concern I have with kyurem is the fact that it haxx quite often for example freeze with ice beam etc in addition to that the pokemon has a coverage just perfect and tanks very well the attacks there is also the fact that it puts a huge pressure on the teambuilding for example in many of my teams I force myself to play scizor only to counter kyurem indeed he still has some checks but a good number of his pokémons will be made pp stall by kyurem with a substitute and roost to give a somewhat clear example I had played a match where the opposing kyurem had freeze my heatran on an ice beam and that was absolute ent changed the whole game in short I totally respect your opinion Concerning zygarde, yes the pokemon is very strong but we must not forget that the pokemon was banned mainly because of its power in itself the pokemon is not very strong basic he does not type very hard he has a correct speed but nothing more and has common weaknesses it is especially that he scams a lot of games because of glare but in my opinion in 8th generation many pokémons are able to succeed in check zygarde while being paralyzed like those I mentioned above slowbro landorus clefable mandibuzz etc moreover the pokemon lost the Z moves which could surprise the clefable which clearly hurt him I find that the pokemon would not be too centralizing as it was in 7th generation where there were few pokémons able to check it and once again I don't think it would bring negative to the metagame on the contrary zygarde would allow to have a good big check to heatran, zapdos, zeraora and so on it would also serve as a good alternative to garchomp afterwards and to conclude this would allow to bring novelty to the current metagame which for the moment has not changed since the month of May once again thank you very much for your opinion !!!
Dracovish wasn't weak to Stealth Rock, and it didn't have to worry about making predictions to make the most out of turns since it had no use for any move besides Fishious Rend 99% of the time. Kyurem is one of the most restricting things in the teambuilder on paper, but in practice, getting it on the field safely is a daunting task and once it's there it has 1-2 turns max before getting forced out again. Dracovish wasn't nearly as tricky to make the most out of; all you had to do was slap a Scarf/Band on it and click the blue button in the first slot a few times. It was by far and wide the more broken of the two. And regarding freezes... I understand that it's frustrating, but there isn't much you can do outside of Natural Cure, Aromatherapy/Heal Bell and thawing moves (Scald, Scorching Sands, etc).

(I'm really just repeating M24's points here...)
 
Last edited:

Colonel M

I COULD BE BORED!
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
I want to thank you for your opinion indeed the fact that kyurem is weak in stealth rocks as well as its very bad ice type limit it a lot but you see it is a little bit like dracovish it is a pokemon that does absolutely scandalous damage but very easy to revenge kill and yet the pokemon has been banned the concern I have with kyurem is the fact that it haxx quite often for example freeze with ice beam etc in addition to that the pokemon has a coverage just perfect and tanks very well the attacks there is also the fact that it puts a huge pressure on the teambuilding for example in many of my teams I force myself to play scizor only to counter kyurem indeed he still has some checks but a good number of his pokémons will be made pp stall by kyurem with a substitute and roost to give a somewhat clear example I had played a match where the opposing kyurem had freeze my heatran on an ice beam and that was absolute ent changed the whole game in short I totally respect your opinion Concerning zygarde, yes the pokemon is very strong but we must not forget that the pokemon was banned mainly because of its power in itself the pokemon is not very strong basic he does not type very hard he has a correct speed but nothing more and has common weaknesses it is especially that he scams a lot of games because of glare but in my opinion in 8th generation many pokémons are able to succeed in check zygarde while being paralyzed like those I mentioned above slowbro landorus clefable mandibuzz etc moreover the pokemon lost the Z moves which could surprise the clefable which clearly hurt him I find that the pokemon would not be too centralizing as it was in 7th generation where there were few pokémons able to check it and once again I don't think it would bring negative to the metagame on the contrary zygarde would allow to have a good big check to heatran, zapdos, zeraora and so on it would also serve as a good alternative to garchomp afterwards and to conclude this would allow to bring novelty to the current metagame which for the moment has not changed since the month of May once again thank you very much for your opinion !!!
Could you please use some punctuation like a period? I apologize if English isn't your first language, but the entire post was difficult to read.

Also - Zygarde was ridiculous in not only its offensive potential with Thousand Arrows ignoring immunities, but its bulk also made it difficult to knock out if it gained even just a small amount of momentum. Your argument is also confusing because you make it sound like Zygarde isn't offensively powerful, but somehow it still is?
 
I want to thank you for your opinion indeed the fact that kyurem is weak in stealth rocks as well as its very bad ice type limit it a lot but you see it is a little bit like dracovish it is a pokemon that does absolutely scandalous damage but very easy to revenge kill and yet the pokemon has been banned the concern I have with kyurem is the fact that it haxx quite often for example freeze with ice beam etc in addition to that the pokemon has a coverage just perfect and tanks very well the attacks there is also the fact that it puts a huge pressure on the teambuilding for example in many of my teams I force myself to play scizor only to counter kyurem indeed he still has some checks but a good number of his pokémons will be made pp stall by kyurem with a substitute and roost to give a somewhat clear example I had played a match where the opposing kyurem had freeze my heatran on an ice beam and that was absolute ent changed the whole game in short I totally respect your opinion Concerning zygarde, yes the pokemon is very strong but we must not forget that the pokemon was banned mainly because of its power in itself the pokemon is not very strong basic he does not type very hard he has a correct speed but nothing more and has common weaknesses it is especially that he scams a lot of games because of glare but in my opinion in 8th generation many pokémons are able to succeed in check zygarde while being paralyzed like those I mentioned above slowbro landorus clefable mandibuzz etc moreover the pokemon lost the Z moves which could surprise the clefable which clearly hurt him I find that the pokemon would not be too centralizing as it was in 7th generation where there were few pokémons able to check it and once again I don't think it would bring negative to the metagame on the contrary zygarde would allow to have a good big check to heatran, zapdos, zeraora and so on it would also serve as a good alternative to garchomp afterwards and to conclude this would allow to bring novelty to the current metagame which for the moment has not changed since the month of May once again thank you very much for your opinion !!!
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/kyurem-black-and-zygarde-are-now-ubers.3673491/ Here is a post explaining why zygarde-50% is banned. A quick summary, is that Zygarde-50% can just bullshit through its checks, does not really have any counters since they can all fall after coil's or repeated para's. Thousand arrows is very spammable and has very few pokemon that resist it, and those that do fall to the sub coil glare set. There are very few conistsent pokemon that can check or even counter it. It is restrictive to teambuilding using pokemon that are not so good or fall to zygarde-50% due to them just relying on not getting para-ed like tangrowth, buzzwole, and zarude.
 

Colonel M

I COULD BE BORED!
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
This is only my opinion you have the right to disagree with me on the contrary yes but zygarde before a dragon dance does not hit extremely hard but the set choice band hits very hard I would say more than zygarde in general
Sure we could argue Zygarde before a boost isn't the most threatening mon in the tier, but it can easily boost in front of many Pokemon with its superior bulk. In scenarios where the game drags out and Pokemon are being worn down, Zygarde can be threatening even without boosts because, if you directly switch Corviknight into Zygarde for example, you run the risk of being smacked down by Thousand Arrows and taking more damage the next turn. It has access to Dragon Dance and Coil to boost, and then it also now has Scale Shot which can make faster but frailer Pokemon struggle to revenge kill Zygarde. This is ignoring ExtremeSpeed too, or Glare just flat out cutting your Speed in half with a 25% chance of failing to hit Zygarde if youre paralyzed. Glare gives Zygarde extra utility and can help swing the momentum in the Zygarde player's favor too.

The post above has information as to why Zygarde is banned. Considering its presence both offensively and defensively in the current generation and previous generation I feel its banned is justified.
 
Gimmicky (but Good?)
1623976868916.png

At present, the OU meta feels like most of the residents have settled into their given roles; sure, some niche/previously underrated stuff is seeing a good bit of experimentation, but the mainstays feel like they're starting to settle. Well nuts to that. Last week was a nightmare for me irl, so I wanted to have a bit of fun with sets, so I'm kind of bringing back a thing I (sometimes) did back when I mainly followed UU. Basically the idea is to take an already solid mon and make some kind of alteration that significantly changes how they play, and see if I could actually get results. So I've been making offbeat sets for a bunch of them for the past few days, and while some didn't quite pan out (did I say laddering would decrease my stress? Wow my brain is all over the place) these mons were actually helpful. If the title didn't clue you in, yes these sets probably aren't the best for each mon; I acknowledge that.
1623969432494.png

Dragapult @ Choice Band
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Darts
- Phantom Force
- U-turn
- Psychic Fangs/Sucker Punch/Steel Wing

Starting off with the most radically different set, Banded Dragapult's aim was to fix the main issues that prevent DDance Dragapult from being consistent: its lack of immediate power and usually lacking room for non-STAB, meaning any player with a Fairy and Blissey can completely wall it, and Unaware Clef doesn't care at all. That said, Dragon Darts is really strong, and even resists like Heatran can struggle to come in repeatedly on Banded with hazard support. Phantom Force can pick up an unexpected KO on teams lacking Bliss or Ttar, U-turn is great for momentum, and your fourth slot, while rarely utilized, has some options; Steel Wing allows consecutive hits on Clef (but that's it), Psychic Fangs chomps on Pex and Urshifu (especially with Lele support) and does more to Koko and Fini, and Sucker Punch is a fallback option if you really fear HO or need an emergency sweeper answer.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1358640539 (when RNG actually works with you)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1358742088
As you can see in these replays, Band Pult works best as a cleaner; once you soften up/remove bulkier Steels and Fairies Pult becomes exceptionally deadly as a revenge killer. It is definitely niche though; the main obstacle is actually not Fairies like you'd probably assume, but Steel types like Corviknight and Ferrothorn, who can just sit on every hit and can resist or ignore Pult's physical coverage. As such, anti-Steel support is essential if you wish to use Band Pult; I chose to include Zone and Lando, as Zone handles birds and Ferro while Lando smacks every other Steel. Another great partner for Band Pult is Specs Lele, as the two can wear down each other's checks, while Lele's terrain both shields Pult from priority and powers up potential Psychic Fangs to OHKO Urshifu. Band Pult is potentially devastating, but is probably the most gimmicky of these 5 mons.
Band Pult
(That last slot can also go to Zapdos; it depends if you prefer Defog support or a Weavile check. I also thought about Fini, but I didn't want to risk weakening Darts since that's the whole appeal of this set)
1623969458340.png

Slowking @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Scald
- Future Sight
- Dragon Tail/Teleport
- Slack Off/Dragon Tail

FuturePort more or less defines the Slowtwins for its ability to force positioning; however, there are plenty of threats that don't mind a Future Sight, so depending on what mon they bring in your opponent can ironically force your positioning. However, Slowking has one thing that can truly deprive the opponent of choosing what takes Sight- Dragon Tail (I originally wanted to do this with Glowking, but of course it doesn't get DT). While it was a struggle to drop one of the key 4 moves, I ultimately opted to keep Slack Off so King could potentially stay in on something; however, someone more adventurous than me might prefer dropping Slack. It mainly comes down to what kind of team you want; if you drop Teleport, pair King with bulky mons that can afford to hard-switch in. If you drop Slack Off, pair it with offensive mons that can better capitalize on momentum.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1359212112
As shown here, DTail's potential lies in its ability to disrupt your opponent's momentum, and allows it to get small but useful bits of chip on bulky mons like Blissey while potentially lining up their offensive mons to take the full brunt of Sight. Also, phasing is good and it's sad most mons don't have room for it anymore. One welcome surprise I saw in practice (wish I'd saved that replay) is that Tail is able to break Heatran's molten grip, meaning that this King can actually come in on Magma Storm without needing to worry about getting Taunt-trapped.
DT Slowking
1623969476346.png

Tangrowth @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Focus Blast
- Knock Off

This change isn't quite as flashy as the others, but it does give some unique edges to Tangrowth. As a frequent user of Growth, I've noticed that I don't really use Sleep Powder, mainly because I prefer other statuses against most opponents; Sludge Bomb seemed like the most logical replacement. With Bomb, Tangrowth can apply pressure to most flying types after they've taken a Knock, score some gradual chip against certain annoyances and allow Growth to better check Rillaboom, Buzzwole, opposing Growth and rarer Bulu.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1359825693-0r3qj56tremqglx3mi1dv0jy0hpz4mmpw
Not the most exciting replay, I know, but to those who don't get it; Bomb guaranteed that I'd win any Growth mirror match (especially since they swapped FB for Leech Seed), so they were constantly forced into Torn or Pex- Torn didn't want to eat a poison, but losing its Helmet would mean Pex couldn't keep my Urshifu at bay (especially if Growth went down). While not flashy, Sludge is a good option for Growth if you don't need/want sleep.
SB Tangrowth
1623969500075.png

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Knock Off
- Leech Seed

This is a set I actually picked up from an opponent during this laddering. After just one Iron Defense, Ferro can be a real pain to break through (hence why you keep max SpD investment) especially once it gets Leech Seed off, while Knock Off allows Ferro to still support its team while chunking Ghost types. Boosted Body Press is obviously a pain, but the main benefit is in this set's ability to sit on most physical attackers and gradually wear them down between Seed, Knock and Iron Barbs while taking minimal damage back.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1360444298
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1360449506
While the first replay isn't a standard OU team, it does show off how Ferro can potentially auto-win an end-game, as once Conk goes down Ferro just wins in the hypothetical continuation. In game 2, Body Press lets Ferro OHKO Heatran on the switch (admittedly a high roll), which it otherwise couldn't accomplish even with max Def. Now, the presence of Urshifu does mean Toxapex is ID Ferro's best friend, so this set is best used on defensive or balance teams.
ID Ferro
1623969532881.png

Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw/Scale Shot/Outrage
- Stone Edge
- Poison Jab/Fire Fang

So, I saved this set for last because- Scarf Garchomp might be legitimately good, actually. The idea was simply to maximize Garchomp's offensive potential, going all in with dual STAB, Edge for Flying types and Jab for Fairies; even with Adamant, Scarf still gets the guaranteed outspeed on Zeraora, aka the benchmark for any successful Scarfer, while letting Chomp have the full power it needed for some crucial KOs. This set also has a decent amount of flexibility; in terms of Dragon STAB, Scale Shot allows potential greater damage and can make up that Speed in case of Knock Off, while Claw is more consistent and doesn't risk a miss. Outrage is also possible, though I don't like it because you can't safely throw it off until late game. Fire Fang is an option over Jab if you really want to dent Corv (which you can somehow still lose to even when you specifically packs two answers to it), Skarm and Ferro, though you do need Rocks and reliance on RNG with Corv.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1360082490 (admittedly RNG saved me here)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1360084319
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1360126426
This ended up being my most successful team of the bunch, and in large part that was due to ScarfChomp's prowess as a revenge killer and general breaker; one of my few losses was actually to another ScarfChomp. ScarfChomp loves the current offensive state of the meta, since while it does have some consistent checks most are defensive staples that can be pressured easily with the right support, especially Zer and/or Zone (you should stick with one if you aren't blinded by rage for Corv). The few checks it has do mean ScarfChomp is best suited for offense or balance, where you can fit key offensive partners like Zeraora and Fini. ScarfChomp does need some support to function at its peak, but that support is perfectly within reason. Of the sets I've featured here, I feel this is the one that is most likely to be genuinely good.
Scarf Garchomp

Throughout this laddering stint, I noticed a few recurring trends, but I don't want this post getting even more bogged down with all that so I'll save all those notes for later. Even for as stressful as building could be sometimes, I still enjoyed what I got with these sets; besides, being untested is what makes it fun. They may not be the most unstoppable sets ever, but I do think all of these guys have some merit (ok, maybe not BandPult. That one's a primadonna), and maybe someone can come up with an even better team for these sets than I could think up.
 
I want to thank you for your opinion indeed the fact that kyurem is weak in stealth rocks as well as its very bad ice type limit it a lot but you see it is a little bit like dracovish it is a pokemon that does absolutely scandalous damage but very easy to revenge kill and yet the pokemon has been banned the concern I have with kyurem is the fact that it haxx quite often for example freeze with ice beam etc in addition to that the pokemon has a coverage just perfect and tanks very well the attacks there is also the fact that it puts a huge pressure on the teambuilding for example in many of my teams I force myself to play scizor only to counter kyurem indeed he still has some checks but a good number of his pokémons will be made pp stall by kyurem with a substitute and roost to give a somewhat clear example I had played a match where the opposing kyurem had freeze my heatran on an ice beam and that was absolute ent changed the whole game in short I totally respect your opinion Concerning zygarde, yes the pokemon is very strong but we must not forget that the pokemon was banned mainly because of its power in itself the pokemon is not very strong basic he does not type very hard he has a correct speed but nothing more and has common weaknesses it is especially that he scams a lot of games because of glare but in my opinion in 8th generation many pokémons are able to succeed in check zygarde while being paralyzed like those I mentioned above slowbro landorus clefable mandibuzz etc moreover the pokemon lost the Z moves which could surprise the clefable which clearly hurt him I find that the pokemon would not be too centralizing as it was in 7th generation where there were few pokémons able to check it and once again I don't think it would bring negative to the metagame on the contrary zygarde would allow to have a good big check to heatran, zapdos, zeraora and so on it would also serve as a good alternative to garchomp afterwards and to conclude this would allow to bring novelty to the current metagame which for the moment has not changed since the month of May once again thank you very much for your opinion !!!
Jesus fucking christ. I can't even begin to understand what you're trying to say. Proper grammar isn't really needed but for the love of Satan, put dots or commas in your post. It makes it less painful to read

At any rate, Kyurem does not restrict the game at all. On paper, it might, but in practice, you are gonna have a lot of trouble getting it in. This metagame in particular needs you to be aggressive and actually take calculated risks. You can't just allow something like Kyurem and respond defensively. That will lose you like three out of five games. There's also the little thing called stealth rock that makes specs Kyurem's life miserable and if your opponent tries to defog, you get a free switch

You can also use defog Corviknight with a bulky water to take on specs Kyurem. The defog Corv set is evd so that it doesn't die to two freeze dries after stealth rock so you can use it to pp stall. You do die to two ice beams but bulky water support would deter ice beam by a lot. This same Corv spread can also be used to pp stall subroost variants because it would barely scratch this metal birb. More importantly, neither of these two pokemon, Corviknight and bulky water, are chosen solely for this role. Corviknight can check grass types and help you pivot around sd Garchomp while Slowking has teleport and Toxapex is Toxapex

Also, I believe that no one else wants to have Zygarde back in the tier. Thousand arrows is just too good of a move which makes its defensive counterplay limited. It can even choose to annoy them with toxic so guys like Buzzwole and Slowbro will have a difficult time against it. Zygarde has counterplay yes but at the same time, it will slowly cripple your team while you're trying to figure out what set it runs. I'm also certain that everyone here has that one nightmare scenario where they outright lost to a Zygrade haxxing its way to a win because of glare paralysis, which is absolute bullshit


View attachment 350285
Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw/Scale Shot/Outrage
- Stone Edge
- Poison Jab/Fire Fang

So, I saved this set for last because- Scarf Garchomp might be legitimately good, actually. The idea was simply to maximize Garchomp's offensive potential, going all in with dual STAB, Edge for Flying types and Jab for Fairies; even with Adamant, Scarf still gets the guaranteed outspeed on Zeraora, aka the benchmark for any successful Scarfer, while letting Chomp have the full power it needed for some crucial KOs. This set also has a decent amount of flexibility; in terms of Dragon STAB, Scale Shot allows potential greater damage and can make up that Speed in case of Knock Off, while Claw is more consistent and doesn't risk a miss. Outrage is also possible, though I don't like it because you can't safely throw it off until late game. Fire Fang is an option over Jab if you really want to dent Corv (which you can somehow still lose to even when you specifically packs two answers to it), Skarm and Ferro, though you do need Rocks and reliance on RNG with Corv.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1360082490 (admittedly RNG saved me here)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1360084319
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1360126426
This ended up being my most successful team of the bunch, and in large part that was due to ScarfChomp's prowess as a revenge killer and general breaker; one of my few losses was actually to another ScarfChomp. ScarfChomp loves the current offensive state of the meta, since while it does have some consistent checks most are defensive staples that can be pressured easily with the right support, especially Zer and/or Zone (you should stick with one if you aren't blinded by rage for Corv). The few checks it has do mean ScarfChomp is best suited for offense or balance, where you can fit key offensive partners like Zeraora and Fini. ScarfChomp does need some support to function at its peak, but that support is perfectly within reason. Of the sets I've featured here, I feel this is the one that is most likely to be genuinely good.
Scarf Garchomp
I have to agree about scarf chomp. The unexpected factor is what makes this set so good. No sane person is instantly gonna assume a Garchomp is scarfed from team preview and I've been using it to support slow but powerful mons like Tapu Bulu or Hydreigon. Getting rid of guys like Koko and especially Dragapult opens up so many possibilities to wreak havoc
 
I have to agree about scarf chomp. The unexpected factor is what makes this set so good. No sane person is instantly gonna assume a Garchomp is scarfed from team preview and I've been using it to support slow but powerful mons like Tapu Bulu or Hydreigon. Getting rid of guys like Koko and especially Dragapult opens up so many possibilities to wreak havoc
Scarf garchomp can be assumed based on your team, and how you are playing it, and scouting to see what item it is. You say scarf chomp is your speed control, well that is going to be assumed from preview "its either scarf drei/bulu or garchomp" and garchomp really has a tough time getting its suprise factor off since a person could just switch out, since a person bringing a garchomp on a dragapult should send red signals "THIS IS SCARF CHOMP". It is bad for a reason, locking yourself into outrage or earthquake is a death sentence, since many Pokémon in the tier can come in on scarf chomp like clefable, landorus-t, skarmory, hippo, slowbro, and more. I would rather use something like dragapult as speed control and use garchomp's viable sets instead.
 
Since WCOP is coming to a close soon want to discuss about somethings I noticed along throughout it.

:ss/weavile:

If you read the post from t045t3r who made a good post talking about Weavile and how an amazing wincondition most notably the Swords Dance set while some gameplays of Choice Band ones as well. Weavile has proven itself to be quite a dangerous threats for many teams alike with an amazing offensive typing, great speed tier, and acccess to priority moves preventing to get revenge killed or even revenge killing itself with Ice Shard. There's no surprise to how dangerous Weavile can be especially when it gets boosted from Swords Dance with very limited switch-ins, all of them which struggle with hazard stacking and Future Sight support so it becomes easy to break past through its own checks. Some teams even experimented with dropping Jolly for Adamant to increase the damage output, and the trade off is not bad as Tornadus-T is now faster, but you are faster than Kartana which is a good deal. One of the main highlights throughout WCOP and easily now one of the Top 10 Pokemon in the tier.

:ss/urshifu-rapid-strike:

Urshifu-R presence is a dominant one all throughout WCOP of how dangerous it is with it's duel stab in Close Combat and the multi hitting attack of Surging Strike is quite formidable to switch into for many teams. A strong dedicated wallbreaker that is hard to switch into even with proper switch-ins like Dragonite, Toxapex, and Tapu Fini gives it a free chance in clicking U-Turn out and bringing in something to take advantage of them, while Future Sight support and hazard stacking makes it even harder to switch into it, and Aqua Jet gives it a nice priority move to make up for its middling speed tier in being able to revenge faster threats. Urshifu-R by far is one of the most potent wallbreakers in the tier that is really hard to switch into and makes it switch-ins easy to get worn down or break past through.

:ss/tapu fini:

Tapu Fini is something itself that got popular throughout WCOP with its great typing being able to check some noticeable threats like Weavile, Urshifu-R, Heatran, Voclarona, and Dragapult, with two great performing sets. Choice Scarf Tapu Fini is by far one of of the most common not only giving teams speed control, but a decent offensive presence, and its ability to shut down defensive Pokemon with Trick is huge for offensive partners like Weavile, Urshifu-R, and Dragapult. The second most common set being Calm Mind with Taunt which makes Tapu Fini a phenomenal win condition in late game as well as breaking past through stall with ease in conjunction with Misty Terrain, and shows how dangerous Tapu Fini is a late game threat.


:ss/slowking-galar:

Galarian Slowking is another Pokemon that rose after it has been declining in usage being able to check the against the likes of Tapu Koko, Kyurem, Heatran, and by far handling Tapu Fini which was dominant throughout WCOP. An amazing ability in Regenerator gives it longevity it desires and wide variety of coverage moves being able to hit different things that it needs to cover for its team. Future Sight is an amazing support move on Galarian Slowking pressuring the opposing side as well hard to switch into it with it's coverage, while supporting strong wallbreakers with it. I feel Galarian Slowking is a lot better pick than Regular Slowking these days despite having Teleport and being able to run Slack Off, but Galarian Slowking covers a lot more and itself is quite threatening and can even run a Calm Mind set.

:ss/landorus-therian: :ss/hippowdon:

These two get a mention together mostly due to how they where seen as Special Defensive sets due to the presence of of Heatran, Volcarona, and Tapu Koko as they can be used to be able to check them for teams while providing Stealth Rocks. While Landorus-T can still be used as a Defensive Wall, its ability to soft check the likes of Heatran and Volcarona for teams, while with Indimidate still gives an edge to be able to check the likes of Zeraora, Garchomp, and Excadrill for teams. Hippowdon on the other hand access to Slack Off makes it reliable into switching into same threats while also being able to switch into Dragapult, though some Dragapults can potentially run Hydro Pump on the last slot in hitting Hippowdon. Hippowdown itself has also been shown in hazard stack offense for its ability with Sand Stream being able to wear down the opposing side being forced to take hazards along with Sandstorm.


:ss/skarmory::ss/mew::ss/ferrothorn:

These three are paired together as premiere spike setters for hazard stacking teams as you pair this with partners that enjoy Spikes wearing down the opposing side such as Sword Dance Weavile, Bulk Up Zeraora, Calm Mind Clefable, Victini, and the list goes on. Skarmory ability to handle many offensive threats such as Kartana, Rillaboom, Garchomp, and Weavile are greatly appreciated in these teams while also are opting to run a bit of Speed in order to be faster than Magnezone which is paired commonly against things that Skarmory tries to cover allowing it to possibly set up an extra layer of spikes or potentially even remove Magnezone once weakened with Body Press. While Ferrothorn itself has seen better days it is still a pretty decent Spike setter with Knock Off removing items, Leech Seed adding more chip to the opposing side and also can cripple seeds for speedier threats with Thunder Wave. Ferrothorn itself also kinda enjoys the prescence of Tapu Fini growing in popularity, though it dislikes getting tricked from Choice Scarf Tapu Fini, and can punish Surging Strikes from Urshifu-R, however it still struggles in handling against Magnezone unlike Skarmory being able to run some speed for it. Mew comes with a lot of utility as a Spike setter with Knock Off it removes Heavy-Duty Boots and Leftovers, while Will-O-Wisp completely negates Leftovers as well in shutting down physical threats. Mew itself saw plentiful of other uses such as the Demon Mew set in fat teams and the occasional Suicide Lead for Hyper Offensive teams, all of these add to why Mew itself is such a good pick currently.

:ss/buzzwole:

Buzzwole is amazing pick for teams since it covers plentiful of offensive threats in one slot being good against the likes of Landorus-T, Garchomp, Rillaboom, Kartana, Weavile, Bisharp, Urshifu-R, and Zeraora alongside with a reliable way to recover with Roost, and resistance to the omniprescent of Knock Off. The role compression in being able to cover offensive threats in one slot is really beneficial for many teams and it itself is not that passive either with a great attack stat and decent choices for coverage Ice Punch hitting Ground-types, Leech Life for additional recovery for fat Psychic-types, Poison Jab for Fairies, and Earthquake hitting the likes of Toxapex, Tapu Koko, and Aegislash. It's ability to take advantage of Future Sight adds into how much of a threat this thing can, while even possibly be running the less common Bulk Up as a decent win condition. The popularity of Buzzwole has grown drastically where the things it beats have adapted to it such as Choice Band Kartana dropping Smart Strike in favor of Aerial Ace in being able to hit Buzzwole hard.

:ss/zeraora: :ss/tapu koko:

These two saw some usage where they have began running set up moves in sacrifice into their pivoting move. Zeraora itself doesn't mind dropping Volt Switch in favorable for something like Toxic in catching off Ground-types that try to switch into it, while also opting in running Bulk Up. Bulk Up itself is an amazing choice though you really won't be clicking it once the opposing Ground-type has been removed or heavily weakened, and this itself let's it be a great wincondition in mid-late games not only does it make it harder to break Zeraora with some boost and its high speed tier making it hard to revenge kill, and with Heavy-Duty Boots avoiding hazard damage making it hard in wearing it down. Tapu Koko though it does miss out from U-Turn, even then Calm Mind itself is a great wincondition itself as well perhaps its best.

Those are some things that caught my attention and all of these have been performing well and will keep on with their usage for how well they have been, would like to hear some thoughts from other users with these Pokemon or anything else they have been using from WCOP, with all that being said have a great day. :blobwizard:
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top