Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #3539)

Now that I'm back, I felt it about time to drop something new. Presenting:
Gimmicky (But Good): Porygon2

:Porygon2:
Porygon2 is not exactly a stranger to SwSh OU, with its reliable niche as one of the key setters on Trick Room teams. But as Trick Room is an inherently unreliable strategy, being tied to that is not a consistent recipe for success; but perhaps this digital duck could function in a role independent of this style. I've been experimenting with potential uses for Porygon2 for a while, and I think I finally found something that gives it a TR-independent niche:
:ss/Porygon2:
Porygon2@ Eviolite
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SpA or 252 HP/252 SpA/4 SpD; Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
-Thunderbolt
-Ice Beam
-Teleport/Tri Attack
-Recover

Analytic is a terrifying ability but is not exactly the most abusable with which Pokemon have access to it. That is, except for Porygon2, which has naturally higher SpA than Starmie, the bulk to take hits thanks to Eviolite even with just max HP, and just the right options to hit a lot of Pokemon really hard. This gave me the idea of a more offensive Porygon2, providing a boost to Pory2's attacks without the inconsistency of Download (plus not being vulnerable to stuff like Haze and Unaware). Few Pokemon in OU can comfortably take both halves of the BoltBeam combo, and thanks to Recover Pory2 can consistently be a pain throughout a match, shoring up bulk that allows it to take even +1 Dragon Darts from Dragapult. As for that fourth move, Tri Attack gives Pory2 a STAB option that lets it hit neutral targets harder, notably more threatening offensive options like Buzzwole and Arctozolt, while Teleport allows Pory2 to contribute to the momentum war more directly, especially given the limited pool of switch-ins that it naturally baits; of the two I'd honestly say I prefer Teleport. In terms of other options, Foul Play lets Pory2 smack Melmetal and Glowking harder, but in practice the move ended up being dead weight despite my best attempts. If you want to lean into its support capabilities, you could run status with Toxic or Thunder Wave, the former providing extra chip while TWave hits more of Pory's switch-ins.
Now, some highlights:
Tri Attack
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1638275745
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1638831298
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1638842221
Teleport
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1663444714
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1663593379-gr8l15h8bvoz4c5fzjf8wbgnwyfshr3pw

Using PoryLytic
:Blissey: :Ferrothorn: :Heatran: :Melmetal: :Slowking-Galar: :Tyranitar: :Magnezone:
For starters, let's take a look at the Pokemon Pory2 does struggle with. Among the standard OU threats, PoryLytic has 7 reliable switch-ins: Blissey, Ferrothorn, Heatran, Melmetal, Glowking, Tyranitar and Magnezone. Of these, Blissey and Ferrothorn are the only hard counters, as Heat and Melm can be worn down if Pory2 repeatedly predicts them with Thunderbolt, Glowking dislikes Foul Play and Ttar and Zone can get worn down quickly due to their lack of recovery; that said, Pory2 is probably not breaking any of these guys on its own. That's where the team comes in.
:ss/Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: :ss/Buzzwole:
You likely already noticed that most of Pory's counters happen to have a common shortcoming- most of them are very scared of Fighting types. As such, a physical Fighting type is basically mandatory on teams that use PoryLytic. Fortunately, Urshifu and Buzzwole are naturally good partners to Pory2, with Shifu providing its own pivoting and outspeeding all the counters bar ScarfTran while Buzzwole shores up the team's defensive profile and threatens to snowball with Beast Boost. For its part, Porylytic naturally threatens physical walls like Corviknight and can take on specific roadblocks, namely making life much more difficult for Slowbro and reliably trading with Volcanion to open up Surging Strikes.
:ss/Zeraora:
Zeraora has in my experience been a great partner for Pory2, providing speed control, doubling PoryLytic's Electric assault to more forcibly remove stuff like Toxapex, serving as a back-up answer for annoying Steel types, using Knock to weaken the opponent and remove AV from Melmetal or Glowking, and can either pivot or provide a win-con with Bulk Up. Zeraora also obviously appreciates the removal of Ground type roadblocks, especially Lando T and Garchomp.
:ss/Rotom-Wash: :ss/Zapdos: :ss/Magnezone:
While Zeraora synergizes rather well with PoryLytic, Electric types in general actually make for surprisingly effective partners, spamming Thunderbolts of their own or Volt Switching to increasing the team's momentum while appreciating PoryLytic's ability to decimate those pesky Ground types and weaken opposing Zeraora. Washtom gives your team a back-up Volcanion check (since you can't really slot Blissey or Chansey on a Pory2 team), and packs a useful kit including Hydro to mess up Heatran, TWave or Wisp to either create free turns or shore up PoryLytic's bulk, Pain Split to keep Blissey low or Defog so Pory doesn't get too weakened by hazards. Zapdos can form a scary special core with PoryLytic thanks to its raw power and potential Heat Wave to burn down Ferro, Melm and Zone, and can provide free paralysis while sponging Fighting attacks. Magnezone can also be used to forcibly remove Ferro and Melm and smash Ttar and Blissey with Body Press, though I haven't tested it and it does make your team weaker to Fighting.

:Landorus-Therian: :Rillaboom: :Garchomp: :Corviknight:
In general, PoryLytic is best suited for offense styles, as those teams are best suited to beating its counters and capitalize on the holes Pory's Analytic attacks can punch in teams, while providing a nice mid-ground for Pory2's bulk (useful but not the end of the world if you have to trade). PoryLytic fits really well on pivot spam teams, as it loves pivot support from the likes of Urshifu or Washtom and Analytic directly contributes to this style's goal of forcing as many switches from the opponent as possible; if Teleport, Porygon can even contribute to this constant pivoting directly. Pivot cores obviously benefit a lot from hazard control, so don't forget your setters and possible removal options!
My teams if you want a base:
TriPory (pokepast.es)
TelePory (pokepast.es)
Gimmick Rating: Solid with support.

Genuine Niche?
Gimmicky, but Good
Solid with Support :Porygon2:
Hit or Miss
Pure Gimmick


Stray Observations:
  • :Dragapult: Dragon Drance Pult seems to be on the rise, as all but one of the Pults I encountered were DD.
  • :Corviknight: Stall has been completely dead on the mid-ladder recently. I don't remember the last time I went this long without fighting a stall team, but literally every team I faced with the second team was some kind of offense. Offensive styles seem to be really dominant right now, so be prepared for them, especially Veil and Rain since I saw those archetypes a bunch, if you want to do a ladder run.
  • :Buzzwole: Leech Life Buzzwole is trash, I learned the hard way. Use Thunder Punch if you want an actual third attack.
 
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I call this the Cosmic Stored Weakness Jirachi:
I have used Jirachi in OU sometimes, It can wear down most walls with Trick Choice Scarf.

Jirachi @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Cosmic Power
- Stored Power
- Iron Head
- Ancient Power / Thunderbolt

Cosmic Power allows Jirachi to take a hit such as Landorus-Therian's Earthquake and activate Weakness Policy, Ancient Power has 20% chance to boost all stats (except for accuracy and evasiveness) thanks to Serene Grace (similarly how Togekiss uses this move), then it can take advantage of its boosts with Stored Power that can OHKO Toxapex with 140 BP or 100 BP in Psychic Terrain before it uses Haze (we know Jirachi is immune to Clear Smog). and there's Iron Head a move that almost every Jirachi has with its infamous 60% flinch chance blocked by Inner Focus.
Here some action of this:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1361876214
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1461145153

Heatran
Melmetal
Ferrothorn
Slowking
Slowking
Volcarona
Blaziken

Let look what does Jirachi struggle against. as I say, there's like 7 Switch-ins from OU Pokemon: Heatran, Ferrothorn, Slowking, Glowking, Melmetal, Volcarona and Blaziken. Blissey dislikes to be flinched repeatedly by Iron Head, Ttar will not like taking a +2 Iron Head, Zone can't take a +2 180 BP Stored Power in Psychic Terrain after a Steath Rock. Ferrothorn and Heatran can wall Jirachi well (useless it Jirachi has many boosts, they will be unable to take a Stored Power) but they will not love taking a Aura Sphere at their face.


Jirachi fire type counters can be scary when they're boosted. In other hand, Volcarona and Blaziken are scared of taking a Ancient Power and Stored Power Respectively. however, Blaziken can't outspeed Jirachi if Speed Boost hasn't activated but Jirachi has to be careful with the Choice Band variants, it needs at least +2 defense to be 2HKOed by Flare Blitz. Offensive Quiver Dance Volcarona has a Speed tie with Jirachi, this means a 50/50 problem. Also they're good Jirachi Partners since they Fend off Steel types that Jirachi has trouble with.


Dragonite is an good switch in against Ground Types that Treat Jirachi, also provides status recovery with Heal Bell. Earthquake allows it to beat Heatran, it can heal itself to full health with Roost to activate back Multiscale. it's typing can doubly resist Grass types which can wall Rillaboom well aside getting its Heavy-Duty Boots knocked off. Defog removes harmful hazards like Spikes and Stealth Rock, So it doesn't wear Jirachi down.


Galarian Zapdos can be also a Good pick for Jirachi teammates, With a Choice Scarf or Choice Band will be always an wallbreaker to Steel Types mostly Ferrothorn who is decimated by a Choice Band Close Combat. with Defiant it can use it to its favor against Landorus-Therian who will face its demise by a Single Brave Bird, U-turn gives a bit of momentium to its teammates.


Rillaboom is a good teammate, Grassy Terrain provides some recovery for Jirachi while also it can crush Water, Ground and Rock Type pokemon with its Grass STAB moves Boosted in Grassy Terrain, Knock Off can remove such as Assault Vest from Galarian Slowking or Choice Band from Landorus-Therian. Grassy Terrain also Halves the damage taken from Earthquake which benefits from Jirachi.


Tapu Lele can support Jirachi with Psychic Terrain, increasing the power of Stored Power and making it immune to Shadow Sneak and Sucker Punch. It's Psychic STAB deals serious damage in Psychic Terrain with Choice Specs. Future Sight plays the odds to force Toxapex Switch out or face its consequences by staying in. Psyshock Surprises a Blissey attempting to wall it (it can OHKO if it deals a critical hit).


Clefable and Latias act to assist Jirachi by healing it with Wish and crippling its checks and counters with Thunder Wave or Toxic, Clefable can set up Stealth Rock to pressure the opponent's team or heal the status of its teammates with Heal Bell. Meanwhile, Latias can use Healing Wish to Fully heal Jirachi, use Trick + Choice Scarf to lock walls such as Toxapex and Blissey.
 
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Stray Observations:
  • :Buzzwole: Leech Life Buzzwole is trash, I learned the hard way. Use Thunder Punch if you want an actual third attack.
I've always felt like Thunder Punch was kind of trash too, even if it hit Corviknight harder than Ice Punch, but with the amount of Lando and Garchomp that eventually have to heads-up against Buzzwole, Ice Punch just always gave me more mileage on most three attack+roost sets. Thunder Punch felt better with Koko, but at that point I had a Koko anyways.
 
I've always felt like Thunder Punch was kind of trash too, even if it hit Corviknight harder than Ice Punch, but with the amount of Lando and Garchomp that eventually have to heads-up against Buzzwole, Ice Punch just always gave me more mileage on most three attack+roost sets. Thunder Punch felt better with Koko, but at that point I had a Koko anyways.
I've always found Thunder Punch of some use on Buzzwole for teams with less favorable rain matchups. Its ability to force switches is very useful and when healthy it's difficult to remove, which grants breakers like Barraskewda less maneuverability and generally impedes offensive momentum. I've found Earthquake to be the superior coverage option by far over Leech Life in almost all other instances, however, Choice Band and Choice Scarf sets can circumvent this in some cases while adding additional power.
 
I've always felt like Thunder Punch was kind of trash too, even if it hit Corviknight harder than Ice Punch, but with the amount of Lando and Garchomp that eventually have to heads-up against Buzzwole, Ice Punch just always gave me more mileage on most three attack+roost sets. Thunder Punch felt better with Koko, but at that point I had a Koko anyways.
There's Counter Buzzwole
When Corv decides to Brave Bird Buzzwole, it will get OHKOed by Counter in return. However, this gives up a moveslot for this.
 
I've always felt like Thunder Punch was kind of trash too, even if it hit Corviknight harder than Ice Punch, but with the amount of Lando and Garchomp that eventually have to heads-up against Buzzwole, Ice Punch just always gave me more mileage on most three attack+roost sets. Thunder Punch felt better with Koko, but at that point I had a Koko anyways.
Yes. That’s why you run Ice and Thunder Punch. Fighting STAB and Ice Punch are the two standard attacks for Buzzwole. I was trying to say Leech Life doesn’t really do much for Buzzwole despite being STAB since you lose your ability to hit stuff like Corviknight and Toxapex (I lost one endgame vs Toxapex because I was Leech instead of Thunder Punch), though EQ is an option if you want to hit against Pex (also smacks Glowking harder). And as Smash said TPunch can help against Rain. Leech Life could work on Choiced but it’s trash on 3 Attacks + Roost, doesn’t really provide enough over other attacking options.
 
Yes. That’s why you run Ice and Thunder Punch. Fighting STAB and Ice Punch are the two standard attacks for Buzzwole. I was trying to say Leech Life doesn’t really do much for Buzzwole despite being STAB since you lose your ability to hit stuff like Corviknight and Toxapex (I lost one endgame vs Toxapex because I was Leech instead of Thunder Punch), though EQ is an option if you want to hit against Pex (also smacks Glowking harder). And as Smash said TPunch can help against Rain. Leech Life could work on Choiced but it’s trash on 3 Attacks + Roost, doesn’t really provide enough over other attacking options.
It's interesting you bring this up because tpunch is slotted here as the main 4th move of choice yet a lot of people seem to run leech life at least on the mid ladder ( 1500-1600s)

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/buzzwole-qc-2-3.3686978/
 
Earthquake is also valuable on Buzzwole because it provides it with a non-contact move. That way it can pick off weakened Ferros, Garchomps, Rocky Helmet stuff, etc. etc. without fear. It's annoying that Buzzwole only runs contact moves otherwise.
 
Earthquake is also valuable on Buzzwole because it provides it with a non-contact move. That way it can pick off weakened Ferros, Garchomps, Rocky Helmet stuff, etc. etc. without fear. It's annoying that Buzzwole only runs contact moves otherwise.
Or Buzzwole can just run Protective Pads to not subject to these contact abilites and Rocky Helmet problems. However, it gives up its Leftovers for that.
 

AndViet

chacun voit midi à sa porte
is a Tutor Alumnus
Earthquake is also valuable on Buzzwole because it provides it with a non-contact move. That way it can pick off weakened Ferros, Garchomps, Rocky Helmet stuff, etc. etc. without fear. It's annoying that Buzzwole only runs contact moves otherwise.
Great idea, I will say that Buzzwole can guarantee 2HKO Ferrothorn (Close Combat) with the standard Buzzwole (OU Offensive tank set), and if you give it some entry hazard damage it will OHKO. When it comes to Garchomp, it can be slightly annoying but if you play around with the attack EVs you can make sure its a guaranteed 2HKO (Close Combat) with especially with stealth rock. Plus neither of those Pokémon run recovery moves aside leech seed unlike Buzzwole usually running roost as standard.
 
Useless Statistical Analysis

With the new update to the Viability Rankings coming out, I thought to myself "are the more viable Pokemon actually used more"? So I took a break from my normal work on excel to do some Pokemon in excel.

I took Pokemon that were in either S, S-, A+, A, A-, or B+ rank and categorized them as such. I copied over the Aug 2022 usage stats weighed for 0, 1500, 1695, and 1825. Looked at the differences between 0 to 1695 and 0 to 1825 for each Pokemon, then looked at the average in each viability ranking.

Results

Viability TierAverage 1500 UsageAverage Usage Increase 0 ⮕ 1695Average Usage Increase 0 ⮕1825
S33.6%7.5%6.8%
S-15.6%4.5%6.0%
A+13.4%4.5%5.7%
A7.9%1.2%1.9%
A-7.4%0.5%-0.1%
B+4.2%0.5%-0.6%

Kinda neat how clear of a trend there is with Viability and both mid-ladder usage (1500) and increase in usage as skill level increases (assuming higher ladder = better players).

Some other notable things:

Biggest increases in usage from 0 ⮕1825:

1. :Clefable: +12.8%
2. :Tornadus-therian: +11.1%
3. :Weavile: +11.1%
4. :Toxapex: +8.8%
5. :Tapu-Lele: +8.0%

Biggest decreases in usage from 0 ⮕1825:

1. :Barraskewda: -4.7%
2. :Volcarona: -4.3%

How flawed is looking as usage stats this way? Very. Still was fun nonetheless, and I can probably confidently say something along the lines of "better players use more viable Pokemon". Shocking conclusion. Anyway, what do we think the deal is with these biggest winners/losers? Good players use Clefable?

Edit: Just realized August usage stats contained OLT, which maybe makes this analysis a little bit more relevant.
 
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Semi-Weather for Dummies
I've found a really simple and effective formula for building weather-terrain teams. It's as easy as ordering a combo meal.

Step 1: Pick a weather-sweeper pair
Step 2: Pick a terrain pair
Step 3: Pick a breaker
Step 4: Slap a Garchomp on it

Run terrain extender, nature power, and weather ball where available. Don't be dumb and lose your answer to scarf shadow ball.

:choice-specs: Breaker Recommendations :choice-band:
Breakers should be getting "dual stab" from the terrain and/or weather. This is your freebie slot. You have to modify the terrain setter set and/or weather setter set to complement your breaker choice. All setters should be offensive; dont waste a slot on some bumpkin set like SpD pelipper.
Psychic :Tapu-lele::hawlucha:Electric :Tapu-koko::hawlucha:Grassy :Rillaboom::hawlucha:Misty :Tapu-Fini::hawlucha:
Sun :Torkoal::Venusaur::Blacephalon::Victini::Heatran::Heatran:
Rain :Pelipper::Barraskewda::regieleki::Raichu-Alola::tornadus-therian::volcanion:
Sand (:Tyranitar::Excadrill:) /
(:Hippowdon::Dracozolt:)
:Alakazam::Nihilego::Magnezone::kartana::volcanion:
Hail :Ninetales-Alola: (:Arctozolt: / :Sandslash-alola:):blacephalon::blaziken::Moltres-Galar::Volcarona:

:garchomp: Garchomp Set :garchomp:
Garchomp @ Life Orb
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Scale Shot
- Fire Fang / Aqua Tail / Stone Edge / Stealth Rock

Pyschic-Sun is by far my favorite. You smash steels and just blow stuff up.
How do you make a torkoal offensive?
 
How do you make a torkoal offensive?
Perhaps via Trick Room?

Torkoal @ Choice Specs
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Eruption
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Earth Power

Someone with Trick Room will definitely help Torkoal a lot such as Slowking-Galar or Mew, these are the one of OU pokemon to use Trick Room save for Slowbro, Victini, Alakazam and Gengar.

By the way, who calls that 85 Base Special Attack useless in Sun?
 
Perhaps via Trick Room?

Torkoal @ Choice Specs
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Eruption
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Earth Power

Someone with Trick Room will definitely help Torkoal a lot such as Slowking-Galar or Mew, these are the one of OU pokemon to use Trick Room save for Slowbro, Victini, Alakazam and Gengar.

By the way, who calls that 85 Base Special Attack useless in Sun?
Yeah it’s devestating in trick room but as just an offensive weather setter it’s kinda meh
 
What are your favorite UU Pokémon’s that do really well in OU?

——-

I’ve been experimenting a lot with about 8 different “UU All-stars” teams in OU. Where the common theme is all Pokémon’s have to be legal in UU, and the overall team needs to be optimised for OU.

after this experimentation on the ladder.. peaking at about 1980, with various teams averaging from 1600s to 1850s (no team so far averaged higher than 1900s in ELO)… need to make the following comments:

1. The best all stars team used :aegislash: Aegislash, :keldeo: Keldeo, :mandibuzz: Mandibuzz and :Tapu bulu: Bulu. This core is shockingly proficient both offensively and defensively. And this is with only Mandibuzz running pure defensive EV spreads! It caused a strong zapdos weakness, hippodown + your choice of rotom could deal with it.

2. :rotom-heat: Rotom-H is really good in OU right now.. it harasses common cores and can switch into melmetal, as well as most fliers and even defensive Garchomp, Garchomp is supposed to be a check for it!Just hit 219 speed, 252 HP, invest in your choice of SpD or Def, and use nasty plot + thunderbolt + overheat + pain split

3. running a “breedable” UU all-stars team in OU is really hard.. you basically need a super strong wall breaker like Crawdaunt, and outside of the rotoms, slowking and maybe slowbro-g, good pivots or Pokémon that can be both defensive/offensive are hard to find.

4. No matter the UU all stars team you build, urshifu, dragapult, kartana, heatran, garchomp and the rest of the hard hitting gang will all be a nightmare to deal with. You can probably see why :mandibuzz: Mandibuzz is essential!

5. :primarina: Primarina is disgustingly good when the opponent doesn’t have a Blissey, chansey, glowking or Ferrothorn. It’s always a fun time when toxapex isn’t packing an offensive poison move.

6. UU Allstars rain teams aren’t too bad. Who woulda thunk :moltres: moltres could be a rain threat?

7. Speaking of rain teams.. :politoed: Politoed isn’t too bad, it has 1x unique niche over pelliper, that is access to encore and perish song. It can come in surprisingly handy!

8. :Rhyperior: is really fun to use when it works. Unfortunately it’s just the 1000th reason landorus-t is the best Pokémon in OU.





:Aegislash: it’s shocking this isn’t OU. The main set I used after some experimentation:

- shadow ball
- shadow sneak
- kings shield
- close combat

item is leftovers. Nature and EVs can be flexible, I used 252+ SpA, and alternated between more bulk, or more speed.Your choice of speed EVs depends on the benchmark you wanna hit:

• 0 Spe and negative nature gives max bulk, making you a super reliable lele check, but Aegislash will be weak against stall or very bulky teams.

• between 0 Spe- and 100 Spe, there’s benchmarks like clefable, Blissey, etc. if you’re picking a spot between the two, just benchmark against those switch ins

• 100 Spe and neutral nature puts you in a nice middle ground of bulky Pokémon, where you outspeed switch ins like corviknight, to make it harder to roost stall on you, whilst under speeding Mandibuzz, Incase you can sneak in a close combat on her in the end game.

why is this Aegislash set so good?

it’s because a Pokémon is only as good as it’s ability to either 1. Switch into a challenging threat or 2. Deal with repeated switch ins from Pokémon that check it.

defensively, aegislash is a rare find that can switch into top threats like lele, combo threats like screens + Cloyster, mediocre threats like Hawlucha, out of favour threats like zapdos-g, and fringe threats like Bulu.

kings shield can scout choice moves. It can also be used to recover hp, so for example, when you switch in on a lele, you can actually recover 18.75% before you switch out again (boosted with grassy terrain support)

you can switch into common predicted soft moves, like a toxic, or strong ones like close combat for the quick 6.25% or 12.5% recovery. (Boosted by terrain).

Aegislash shadow ball conveniently 3hkos its most common check: SpD landorus.. so it puts good pressure on it. It also forces out slower switch ins like toxapex or clefable if it is lucky to get a SpD drop or crit (24.8% chance). Shadow sneak is a really cool tool because you’ll notice 2 shadow balls pits most Pokémon into 0-20% HP range, whilst most other Pokémon get into that range from 3 shadow balls.

some examples replays:

Aegislash handles screen supported cloyster quite reliably. Coming in numerous times over a match. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1586161389-5pnv6c6esrhpgbjemvazy7g8ault5q3pw

sometimes choiced Pokémon can be a liability, such as when you’re against an Aegislash. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1585197571-5d827eyc9pjvzjf4n8yfpnoqnopma1mpw

Here’s a really fun 2000s ELO matchup with Aegislash vs Aegislash. You’ll see the opponents Aegislash walls my Bulu, whilst my aegislash tries it’s best to shield against the extremely strong onslaught. Ultimately I lost due to losing momentum far too early against extreme offense. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1580951557-dfr3okbsfzo2x7lw861l8pthahmom98pw

Aegislash best counter (to the set I mentioned) by far is Mandibuzz. Here’s a match where I get completely walled, almost effortlessly, due to a very difficult to break defensive backbone. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1580705429-4zpw447syo3yfupuq5xm3doty3iwqfupw

Sometimes Aegislash will win in matchups you don’t expect.. like against a magnezone https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1580129871-1m1rjd45pg8jpcl00vidvc61d03pyu5pw
What item do you run on primarina?
 
What item do you run on primarina?
I think her best set is still metronome, as it can setup on toxapex and beats a lot of the defensive cores that rely on clefable or regenerator spam. It loses to blissey and usually Ferrothorn tho

—-



What’s everyone’s thoughts on balloon heatran right now?
:heatran:
I think if you don’t get your double switches predicted, it’s extremely dangerous right now,

here’s an experimental team in 1700s ladder with balloon heatran + torkoal sun support

it OHKOd clefable in the sun!

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1671144128-hweyc3q21dhbucry7qm4a244cyt1jpypw
 
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I think her best set is still metronome, as it can setup on toxapex and beats a lot of the defensive cores that rely on clefable or regenerator spam. It loses to blissey and usually Ferrothorn tho
Don't tell me about Liquid Voice Echoed Voice Metronome, Calm Mind helps with Max SpA Modest.

It can OHKO Ferrothorn at Max BP (200) in Rain and +1 SpA and that 2HKOes Blissey.

Primarina can OHKO Blissey with Max Power Metronome and 200 BP Echoed Voice in rain, I guess Blissey isn't safe from this.
 
It can OHKO Ferrothorn at Max BP (200) in Rain and +1 SpA and that 2HKOes Blissey.
It can OHKO Ferrothorn at Max BP (200) in Rain and +1 SpA and that 2HKOes Blissey.

Primarina can OHKO Blissey with Max Power Metronome and 200 BP Echoed Voice in rain, I guess Blissey isn't safe from this.
The conditions for this to happen is absurd and is so unlikely to happen that this is a gimmick at best. The fact that you have to have rain, and get the 200 bp echoed voice without getting revenge killed by any grass or electric type.
 
Primarina offensively the only niche it has is that unlike Fini it breaks Pex with Psychic. Granted, Fini does that too with Taunt, but Poison Jab is a thing. So, either Specs or CM need to have Psychic in order to be different from Fini.

Defensively is another story. While barely less bulky, Primarina can use Rest and Flip Turn (Fini can do the former too with Telepathy, but not the latter), so unlike standard Fini, it is not worn down by repeated assaults of Watershifu and Weavile and can use a slow Flip Turn in order to bring a threat safety into the field. Watershifu and Weavile are the Main mons you will be checking, but it also works for Heatran, Garchomp, Nite, Buzzwole, Crawdaunt, the bad fish, Blaziken, Pult, Cloyster and Blace. Of course, it's not a perfect check for most of them, but it does work as a soft check that, unlike things like Pex, doesn't sink momentum.

So, if using Primarina in OU, the optimal set (in my opinion) for it is: Max Hp, Max Defense, Relaxed nature (and min Speed), Restalk, Moonblast and Flip Turn (Scald is an option too, but Fini would usually be better with this, since the bulk is higher). As items, Rocky Helmet (Surging Strikes and Triple Axel are fun), Leftovers, Boots and Chesto Berry in this order of preference.
 
I think that offensive :primarina: Primarina isn’t any better than :tapu_fini: Fini. it does get psychic, but in OU psychic hits: Zapdos-Galar (just moonblast it), Urshifu-Rapid-Strike (just moonblast it) and Toxapex. Tapu Fini’s Whirlpool + Perish Song + Taunt works far better at eliminating Toxapex and other walls too.

as for using Primarina defensively, i would just run :swampert: Swampert instead, another UU mon that has flip turn yet can also provide support with moves like Stealth Rock, Toxic, Yawn etc. electric immunity is also useful because how strong things like Zeraora or Regieleki are (both of which kill/chip Primarina). Primarina does have more resistances than Swampert though.

i feel that both :tapu_fini: Tapu Fini and :swampert: Swampert essentially eliminate most of Primarina’s viability in OU.
 
I fucking hate landorus
While landorus-therian is annoying at times, I do think it already has fallen from grace. Weaville, ice punch melmetal, hail ho and rain have dealt a massive blow to its popularity. The fact that most if not every physical attacker in ou can carry a move that threatens landy or just 2hko it on the switch is telling. Even Pokemon that landorus theoretically walls like excadrill sometimes run rock slide to wear it down or toxic to cripple it further or even dracozolt which can run a gimmicky fire spin set to trap and kill it with draco meteor.

I wouldn’t say landorus is anywhere near its former level of prominence due to the fact that the meta has adapted and become somewhat hostile to it.
 
While landorus-therian is annoying at times, I do think it already has fallen from grace. Weaville, ice punch melmetal, hail ho and rain have dealt a massive blow to its popularity. The fact that most if not every physical attacker in ou can carry a move that threatens landy or just 2hko it on the switch is telling. Even Pokemon that landorus theoretically walls like excadrill sometimes run rock slide to wear it down or toxic to cripple it further or even dracozolt which can run a gimmicky fire spin set to trap and kill it with draco meteor.

I wouldn’t say landorus is anywhere near its former level of prominence due to the fact that the meta has adapted and become somewhat hostile to it.
I don't just like the Choice Band variants of Landorus-Therian, it just hits like an Huge Train.
 

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