Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion v4 (check out posts #483 and 484 for DLC1 info!)

[Jordy]

So does this mean Kyurem as a pokemon has no way to reliably damage Clefable? (Dumb question, but seems interesting given this)

No, Choice Specs Kyurem can excellently pressure Clefable with just Ice Beam. I specified Substitute + Roost Kyurem in my previous post for a reason.

 

[AnimaticLunatic]

So does this mean Kyurem as a pokemon has no way to reliably damage Clefable? (Dumb question, but seems interesting given this)

Anyways, moving on, what are some pokemon that might get hit very hard when the new DLC drops? I'm kinda curious as to what pokemon might drop in viability when the DLC does drop in around 9 hours at the time of this post because we've already talked about pokemon that might benefit, but what about pokemon that might hurt from the DLC?

My guess would be
(its 4 move sindrom is getting worse) because of how good tangrowth will be and most of its sets already strugle to break frailer Rilaboom. It can not really run fire punch because then it gets walled harder by other walls such as kommo-o and Hippowdon.
because of magnezone.

Kyurem and Special sets of Dragapult and Aegislash because of chansey. Hatterna also. Rotom H nasty plot set.

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

Metronome was implemented wrongly for a while; Metronome boosts are reset if the user misses, hits into Protect, or a Pokemon that is immune. With Teleport Clefable's popularity and this mechanic properly implemented, Substitute + Roost Kyurem does not have any good way to break past Clefable.

That makes sense though

 

[kstiemsma]

So does this mean Kyurem as a pokemon has no way to reliably damage Clefable? (Dumb question, but seems interesting given this)

Anyways, moving on, what are some pokemon that might get hit very hard when the new DLC drops? I'm kinda curious as to what pokemon might drop in viability when the DLC does drop in around 9 hours at the time of this post because we've already talked about pokemon that might benefit, but what about pokemon that might hurt from the DLC?

Zeraora is the biggest victim for sure. Helmet Tangrowth comes in for free and gets a knock/ sleep powder for free even on bulk up sets.
+1 252 Atk Zeraora Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 109-129 (26.9 - 31.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Tangrowth and Slowbro help to check Drill a bit better, won't stop it but give teams more flexibility around checking it. Terrak loses more of whatever viability it had in addition.


Specs Kyurem is invalidated pretty much completely by chansey. I still think that stallbreak DDance or SubRoost special with t-spikes support will still be pretty decent though, just no longer the undisputed number one special threat.


This is not as much of a definite but there's a good chance that rain becomes legit with Kingdra and Azu, even Hurricane Volc could be nice. Think that'll negatively impact the viability of those sand teams with Hippo/ Drill core.

 

[Monky25]

Anyways, moving on, what are some pokemon that might get hit very hard when the new DLC drops? I'm kinda curious as to what pokemon might drop in viability when the DLC does drop in around 9 hours at the time of this post because we've already talked about pokemon that might benefit, but what about pokemon that might hurt from the DLC?

I've actually been thinking about this today waiting for the dlc to drop. I've gotten several thoughts about which mons will be hindered by the DLC and may potentially even drop to UU.

- Both Shuckle and Toad are likely to drop this month, as shuckle was mostly used on a webs team to get reqs for the vish suspect and toad virtually disappeared from the tier due to vish getting banned and both hippow and kommo-o being better defensive rockers.
- Corv will fall a bit just from the existence of volcarona and magnezone, which will both be everywhere.
- Zera is going to fall off a bit due to being checked by tangrowth, but at the same time it'll be valuable due to checking slowbro, chansey, talonflame, starmie, azumarill, and skarm
-Pult is going to be hindered a bit due to the existence of chansey, making the physical sets like DD become more common and specs will be non-existent. Spell tag+Hex is also going to be not used as much, as it will face competition from DD.
-Kyurem is also going to have some setbacks, as chansey will hard-wall it and spDef scizor bullet punch can easily take care of it. Also, choice locked kyurem can be forced out by Magnezone due to it resisting it's stabs.
-Mimikyu I feel will drop to UU at the end of the month. It was barely hanging on and is outclassed as a physical breaker despite having a great stab combo. It fails to beat stuff like hippow, ferro, pex, corv, and incoming tang and skarm. Also, mons like scizor and zone cuck it. Mimikyu is just bad lol and will definitely fall off soon.
-Hatterene is another mon I feel will fall off. It was already dipping in usage and with dlc we're getting many threatening breakers like scizor, azumarill, and magnezone to beat it. It's main niche is blocking hazards with magic bounce and having a fairy type, but I dont think it'll be enough to keep it in OU
- Tyranitar is going to be a sad one, being an OU staple for many gens but im gonna be real it won't work. In addition to it struggling with many top threats in the current metagame, new stuff like body press skarm, starmie, mienshao, krook, azu, scizor, the list goes on about stuff that beats Ttar. Going to be a sad day when it drops.
-Last on on the top of my head it Terrakion, as new tier stables like Tangrowth, scizor, and slowbro will hard check it and limit terrak's flexibility on teams. Soon it'll be hard to justify using terrakion over conk in the new metagame

 

[War Incarnate]

- Shuckle is likely to drop this month, as shuckle was mostly used on a webs team to get reqs for the vish suspect.

I like the response but this isn't really correct. Shuckle as a whole was pretty damn terrible and the only reason it was used that much was because Webs teams were used as "flavor of the month" teams.

To make this not a meaningless post, I kinda wonder what Mienshao will do. At first impression its less bulky than Conkeldurr and although its faster it has lacking power because lack of Guts and Reckless-boosted HJK sounds nice but rarely useful considering Conkeldurr has STAB priority (I'm sorry if I'm asking so many questions in one go)

 

[Martin]

To make this not a meaningless post, I kinda wonder what Mienshao will do. At first impression its less bulky than Conkeldurr and although its faster it has lacking power because lack of Guts and Reckless-boosted HJK sounds nice but rarely useful considering Conkeldurr has STAB priority (I'm sorry if I'm asking so many questions in one go)

It’ll pivot around with Regenerator+U-turn mostly. Last gen the main set in UU was AV, and I expect if Mien sees use it’ll either be with that or with choiced sets. Got good utility between KOff+U-turn and being faster than Volcarona is good if u go Scarf+SEdge. Also appreciates gaining a HJK replacement (CC) especially in the Tect+Pult meta.

 

[Padstar34]

I think a mon that likes a lot of the new DLC mons is Darmanitan. Darm checks a lot of the top new threats, with the exception of azu and bro (still takes half from band u-turn). Darm can run rock slide over trick for birb if you so wish. Poliwrath also checks it, though.

 

[TPP]

Thank you all for discussing/speculting the new DLC metagame. At this time we would like to lock the thread and the rest of the forum in preparation for DLC, which as you all know is being released tomorrow. We will keep the SQSA thread open, but please do not spam it with questions about the DLC as we don't have enough information yet to answer every question. The exact time for the DLC release is uncertain, but The Pokemon Company announced a special presentation around 9 AM EST tomorrow (10 PM Japan), and there is a chance that the DLC will be released afterwards, or within the 2 hours following the presentation. Like last time when pokemon home was released and the first time when SS was released, we will try and have a new thread will all the new information in it as soon as we can. Due to the lack of information we have regarding the Island of Armor, this post will take longer than the previous ones, and as such, we would like to request for you guys to be a little patient with this one. Ideally we will try and have it up 24 to 48 hours once DLC is released. If you're wanting to stay up to date with the island or armor information before our thread is done, then you can visit the Orange Islands section and there will most likely be a thread dedicated to the DLC content. If you have any questions, feel free to PM a mod or ask in the SQSA thread.

Have a good night, stay tuned, and I hope you all enjoy the DLC!

 

[Finchinator]

You can now play the DLC metagame on PS live!

 

[TPP]

First metagame discussion thread for DLC is here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ss-ou-metagame-discussion-thread-v5.3666169/