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Pet Mod SS OU Theorymon (Completed)
- Thread starter Ardy
- Start date
and 
scorbunnys
Don't dream your life, but live your dream. #Bunny
and 
o oops i see, but i think I'll keep my vote anyway
Alright! Votings up!
Terrakion: 10
Drapion: 10
Raikou: 12
Golisopod: 13
Runerigus: 0
With that, Golisopod and Raikou will be added to the metagame! However, given how many votes both terrak and drap recieved, we will probably be putting them back on another slate very soon!
However, it is now time for a new slate!
+ Electric/Fighting Type + Magnet Pull
+ 10 Speed
+ Vital Spirit
+ Surf
+ 10 Defense + Shore Up
As always, there will be around 5 days of discussion before voting. What do you think of this slate? Let us know!
Terrakion: 10
Drapion: 10
Raikou: 12
Golisopod: 13
Runerigus: 0
With that, Golisopod and Raikou will be added to the metagame! However, given how many votes both terrak and drap recieved, we will probably be putting them back on another slate very soon!
However, it is now time for a new slate!
+ Electric/Fighting Type + Magnet Pull + 10 Speed + Vital Spirit + Surf + 10 Defense + Shore Up As always, there will be around 5 days of discussion before voting. What do you think of this slate? Let us know!
magnet pull means shit like tran, skarm, corv, ferro, and scizor are not safe from this. With fighting stab hammer arm or cross chop hit like a truck esp to pokemon who do not drop to fire punch or blast. This also means that grass spam may be much better or sand as this does not stack weaknesses with drill or hippo. I feel like this fucks over any double steel core since this is a-golem + magnezone having a child and this is the product
How fast is it you may ask? You know... just 105!! With adamant it hits 309 which is still fast but I believe jolly means it now nukes shit like victini, volcarona, urshifu-r as even jolly facade hits hard. Adamant means it speed ties with lando which means it outspeeds modest lele, timid fini, ada urshifu, and nidoking. Pretty fast for a guts breaker who still has problems of bulk and is unable to do much especially against very fast teams as it sometimes lacks the power to ohko mons before it gets traded out.
The rest of the mons are my submissions on cord but +10 def instead of +20 hp on mudsdale may make it a more dedicated physical wall instead of a mixed one but I believe it may be an alternative as a fat hippo who takes or phys attackers much better as it has stamine
Archeops with an actual ability? It can not actually be useful below half which means it can actually see use as a late game cleaner or as a meteor beam sweeper especially with the speed and sp. attack stat.
Jolteon with surf means its an electric with a way to bypass hippo, lando-t, and others like tran. Still I believe its mono electric will make it struggles especially since I did not give it other boosts such as sp. attack or a better move like hydro pump.
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Don't like:
: After the Raikou buff, I don't see this ever becoming viable, Raikou would be objectively superior in almost every way, except as a fast pivot, which koko already does... . The boost in speed doesn't even give it that much of an edge over Raikou, since the only meaningful outspeed would be Tornadus-T.
: I am personally hugely against this, Electivire becomes the hugest matchup fish pokemon by trapping and beating EVERY SINGLE STEEL TYPE IN OU (bar like, full health melmetal...) with stab fighting stab and fire coverage, while also making this become objectively better than magnezone. I personally don't want to have to play in a meta where every single one of my steel type pokemon are heavily pressured to run shed shell, or basically flat out lose to team archetypes which run Electivire.
while recovery is definitely a way of boosting mudsdale's viability, I see it getting outshadowed by Hippowdon in terms of what it does, the only real niche i could find for it would be a Body Press breaker, which doesn't seem like a particularly viable niche.
Probably have to do a bit more research on Archeops and Obstagoon, however those two are the ones I'll most likely be voting for
: After the Raikou buff, I don't see this ever becoming viable, Raikou would be objectively superior in almost every way, except as a fast pivot, which koko already does... . The boost in speed doesn't even give it that much of an edge over Raikou, since the only meaningful outspeed would be Tornadus-T. : I am personally hugely against this, Electivire becomes the hugest matchup fish pokemon by trapping and beating EVERY SINGLE STEEL TYPE IN OU (bar like, full health melmetal...) with stab fighting stab and fire coverage, while also making this become objectively better than magnezone. I personally don't want to have to play in a meta where every single one of my steel type pokemon are heavily pressured to run shed shell, or basically flat out lose to team archetypes which run Electivire. while recovery is definitely a way of boosting mudsdale's viability, I see it getting outshadowed by Hippowdon in terms of what it does, the only real niche i could find for it would be a Body Press breaker, which doesn't seem like a particularly viable niche.Probably have to do a bit more research on Archeops and Obstagoon, however those two are the ones I'll most likely be voting for
Say it with me: Magnet Pull with a STAB that is super-effective against Steel is a NO. Even strong coverage is bad, but then you take this, with not only STAB Cross Chop, but also Fire Punch for Corv and Ferro, and you've got a stupidly strong Magnet Puller. This is way too good, please don't vote for this.
I like. Simple buff makes it much more effective. Is it OU-viable? Not sure. Is it cool? Definitely. EDIT: I see people complaining about this thing's power. That's its job. It's a super powerful wallbreaker at the expense of killing itself slowly and being prone to getting revenge-killed. Of course you can't wall it, that's the point, so just kill it. Koko RKs, Zeraora RKs, Kart RKs, anything that can spare a slot for Mach Punch RKs. This isn't like Zarude, where it's a bulky offensive monster. This is a fast, frail wallbreaker. It'll be fine. EDIT 2: The mon's in RU rn. With 95 speed. That's already pretty fast, particularly by LT standards. And yet, it's completely fine there. Plus, contact punishers galore exist in OU, so this will be totally manageable.
It sure does. Just run Raikou lo Not sure on this one. It's probably fine, but I've been told time and time again that Stamina + recovery is not a good idea. Still definitely has a niche, but considering how much it competes with Hippo, I'd rather just give another mon Stamina.
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TailGlowVM
Now 100% more demonic
I think Obstagoon would be broken. It's true that it already has extremely limited defensive switch-ins (and now has to run Jolly), but outrunning Tapu Lele, both Zapdoses, Volcarona, Urshifu-R, Hydreigon, and Victini is huge, and Facade is already strong enough to 2HKO even Tangrowth after Stealth Rock:
252 Atk Guts Obstagoon Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 165-195 (40.8 - 48.2%) -- 66.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
It beats every Steel-type with Close Combat or Knock Off other than Corviknight and Scizor, and the latter has to watch out for Fire Punch. We'd basically be making Zarude all over again.
Thoughts on the others:
Agree with above users, this is beyond broken. I'm sorry I didn't think about this more before approving putting it on the slate.
Good choice, its power and speed are really good for OU right now but the horrible bulk and poor typing will limit it.
Worthless with Competitive Raikou. This was originally proposed as Primordial Sea + Weather Ball but that would be beyond broken, as I explained on Discord.
Not the best buff, but I'd pick it as my second choice here since we have two broken options and a pointless one.
252 Atk Guts Obstagoon Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 165-195 (40.8 - 48.2%) -- 66.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
It beats every Steel-type with Close Combat or Knock Off other than Corviknight and Scizor, and the latter has to watch out for Fire Punch. We'd basically be making Zarude all over again.
Thoughts on the others:
Agree with above users, this is beyond broken. I'm sorry I didn't think about this more before approving putting it on the slate. Good choice, its power and speed are really good for OU right now but the horrible bulk and poor typing will limit it. Worthless with Competitive Raikou. This was originally proposed as Primordial Sea + Weather Ball but that would be beyond broken, as I explained on Discord. Not the best buff, but I'd pick it as my second choice here since we have two broken options and a pointless one.Damn, this slate looks pretty interesting.
:This seems like the second if not biggest buff out of the entire slate. It may not be able to ohko targets like corv or Melmetal but i has a couple of really good attributes that might make it downright outclass Magnezone. The first is Electivire has a way faster speed tier of 95, making its scarf set be able to outspeed things magnezone can't, most notably being able to get the jump, such as kartana. Hell, it doesn't even need scarf to outspeed things mag can't without scarf, mons such as heatran and and corv just need a bit of speed investment. Actually scratch my previous statement, this WILL completely outclass magnezone. It has WAY better coverage than mag, holding fire punch, earthquake, Drain punch and wild charge to costumise the mons it can take on. Sure, it won't be able to ohko things like magnezone, has to endure possible rocky helmet chip and isn't confortable switching into anything, but its ability to trap even more steels than Mag will make it heavily impact the meta.
:By far the buff that seems the most tame at first glance, and yet it does massively help obstagoon. +10 Speed come in real handy in order to better outspeed stuff as said above like the pseudo dragons besides dragapult, hydreigon, lele and some others. I do disagree in the notion that it might be broken though. Guts chip combined with rocky helmet and the kind are probably make it harder for the mon to stay alive thoughout a game, and it needs the right opportunity to sweep. Overall it is a fine mon that will do better now
: Imagine giving Archeops vital spirit instead of the way more fitting Early Bird this mon is competely unviable now. Jokes asides this new ability really helps breathe new life into chops. I can see it running some Band or Scarf sets to success, but some other good options include heavy duty boots to make it a decently strong offensive pivot. If you are based enough you can also run meteor beam alongside Chop's decently good special movepool.
: Stop buffing plain electric types, the meta is already bloated by them. Jolteon is simply not strong enough or fast enough to compete with the other electric types of the meta. Raikou and Koko outclass it offensively, koko even outspeeds it. Jolteon is and will remain bad even with this buff.
:Metagame trends don't really help this guy a lot, Especially with how most A+ rank mons screw this fella over. Even then it would be unfair to say that this thing isn't helped by these buffs. I do see it having a niche at making switch in opportunities out of mons like Melmetal, Zeraora, Scizor, Victini and Gapdos. I guess you could also slap rocks into it but overall mudsdale will face harsh competition in its role from the likes of lando and Garchomp.
:This seems like the second if not biggest buff out of the entire slate. It may not be able to ohko targets like corv or Melmetal but i has a couple of really good attributes that might make it downright outclass Magnezone. The first is Electivire has a way faster speed tier of 95, making its scarf set be able to outspeed things magnezone can't, most notably being able to get the jump, such as kartana. Hell, it doesn't even need scarf to outspeed things mag can't without scarf, mons such as heatran and and corv just need a bit of speed investment. Actually scratch my previous statement, this WILL completely outclass magnezone. It has WAY better coverage than mag, holding fire punch, earthquake, Drain punch and wild charge to costumise the mons it can take on. Sure, it won't be able to ohko things like magnezone, has to endure possible rocky helmet chip and isn't confortable switching into anything, but its ability to trap even more steels than Mag will make it heavily impact the meta. :By far the buff that seems the most tame at first glance, and yet it does massively help obstagoon. +10 Speed come in real handy in order to better outspeed stuff as said above like the pseudo dragons besides dragapult, hydreigon, lele and some others. I do disagree in the notion that it might be broken though. Guts chip combined with rocky helmet and the kind are probably make it harder for the mon to stay alive thoughout a game, and it needs the right opportunity to sweep. Overall it is a fine mon that will do better now : Imagine giving Archeops vital spirit instead of the way more fitting Early Bird this mon is competely unviable now. Jokes asides this new ability really helps breathe new life into chops. I can see it running some Band or Scarf sets to success, but some other good options include heavy duty boots to make it a decently strong offensive pivot. If you are based enough you can also run meteor beam alongside Chop's decently good special movepool. : Stop buffing plain electric types, the meta is already bloated by them. Jolteon is simply not strong enough or fast enough to compete with the other electric types of the meta. Raikou and Koko outclass it offensively, koko even outspeeds it. Jolteon is and will remain bad even with this buff. :Metagame trends don't really help this guy a lot, Especially with how most A+ rank mons screw this fella over. Even then it would be unfair to say that this thing isn't helped by these buffs. I do see it having a niche at making switch in opportunities out of mons like Melmetal, Zeraora, Scizor, Victini and Gapdos. I guess you could also slap rocks into it but overall mudsdale will face harsh competition in its role from the likes of lando and Garchomp.
My thoughts:
Oh hell no, this thing traps and eviscerates every Steel type in the tier with ease (other than maybe a full health Melmetal). STAB Cross Chop destroys Heatran and Excadrill, STAB Wild Charge wrecks Corviknight and Skarmory and it has Earthquake and Fire Punch to smack the rest. If you want Electivire to be viable, I would suggest giving it Galavnize and Swords Dance.
Now we're talking, the extra Speed lets it outrun stuff like Hydreigon, Tapu Lele etc. It's a great wallbreaker, but I don't think it would be broken as it would have similar problems to Mega Medicham in SM OU - it offers next to no defensive utility, as the Ghost and Psychic types it might be tempted to switch in on nearly always run coverage moves to hit it super effectively. It's also constantly getting worn down by Flame Orb and other forms of chip.
This is going to be another one of those mons that if it gets in safely something's going to drop. Vital Spirit isn't especially helpful, as most sleep inducers hit it hard regardless, but really any ability is a huge upgrade (apart from Slow Start or Truant) over Defeatist. Band would be the best set IMO, but Scarf would also be very nice. Could even run a Mixed Life Orb set, as Heat Wave wrecks Ferrothorn and Skarmory.
Just...why? Why would I ever use this? Raikou is better in every way apart from Speed, Tapu Koko has the same Speed but hits way harder thanks to Electric Surge, and I've got Zapdos, Zeraora and the Rotom appliance formes to choose from if I want an Electric type.
Just use Hippowdon. Or Quagsire. Or Swampert.
Oh hell no, this thing traps and eviscerates every Steel type in the tier with ease (other than maybe a full health Melmetal). STAB Cross Chop destroys Heatran and Excadrill, STAB Wild Charge wrecks Corviknight and Skarmory and it has Earthquake and Fire Punch to smack the rest. If you want Electivire to be viable, I would suggest giving it Galavnize and Swords Dance.
Now we're talking, the extra Speed lets it outrun stuff like Hydreigon, Tapu Lele etc. It's a great wallbreaker, but I don't think it would be broken as it would have similar problems to Mega Medicham in SM OU - it offers next to no defensive utility, as the Ghost and Psychic types it might be tempted to switch in on nearly always run coverage moves to hit it super effectively. It's also constantly getting worn down by Flame Orb and other forms of chip.
This is going to be another one of those mons that if it gets in safely something's going to drop. Vital Spirit isn't especially helpful, as most sleep inducers hit it hard regardless, but really any ability is a huge upgrade (apart from Slow Start or Truant) over Defeatist. Band would be the best set IMO, but Scarf would also be very nice. Could even run a Mixed Life Orb set, as Heat Wave wrecks Ferrothorn and Skarmory.
Just...why? Why would I ever use this? Raikou is better in every way apart from Speed, Tapu Koko has the same Speed but hits way harder thanks to Electric Surge, and I've got Zapdos, Zeraora and the Rotom appliance formes to choose from if I want an Electric type.
Just use Hippowdon. Or Quagsire. Or Swampert.
I see no need to talk about or since everything that could be said has been. TL:DR - Outclassed even with the buffs.
With all due respect, are you insane? This thing is taking the concept of Magnezone and bringing it to an 11, and people already say Magnet Pull Magnezone is uncompetitive. This thing would get banned to Ubers stupid quick. Hell no.
YEAHHH GIVE THE BOY THE LOVE HE DESERVES! A really hard hitting FAST physical rock type is great. This thing will be great to have around, and is my favorite (can you tell? lol)
Not a big change, but it doesn't need to get a big change. Obstagoon's been painfully close to viable, but misses out on speed tiers right in front of it. Now it will be able to take on what it needs to and find a solid place in the meta. Definitely my second pick here.
or since everything that could be said has been. TL:DR - Outclassed even with the buffs. With all due respect, are you insane? This thing is taking the concept of Magnezone and bringing it to an 11, and people already say Magnet Pull Magnezone is uncompetitive. This thing would get banned to Ubers stupid quick. Hell no. YEAHHH GIVE THE BOY THE LOVE HE DESERVES! A really hard hitting FAST physical rock type is great. This thing will be great to have around, and is my favorite (can you tell? lol) Not a big change, but it doesn't need to get a big change. Obstagoon's been painfully close to viable, but misses out on speed tiers right in front of it. Now it will be able to take on what it needs to and find a solid place in the meta. Definitely my second pick here.
To play devil's advocate for a sec, forcing all Steels to run Shed Shell IS a very funny way to nerf the clear best type in the game. I still don't support this mon though.
I like normal Goon quite a bit so I'm definitely in favour of this one. It gets chipped down easily and struggles to switch in and activate Orb safely, but hits like a truck once it gets in. I can see where the Zarude comparisons are coming from but this mon starts and ends at "Fast-ish Guts Breaker", whereas Zarude can hit similarly hard without having to use its item slot, not to mention its bulk and movepool.
Defeatist-free Arch is an interesting one, kinda fills the same niche as Goon's trying to as a fast frail breaker but with more versatility at the cost of raw power. Because Goon is also here this slate and I'd rather only see one rn than both at the same time, I'm not voting for it, but I wouldn't mind it getting in.
This is the one that people are really sleeping on. I do kinda hate Shore Up being randomly slapped onto Ground mons because it's a Ground move without anyone stopping to think about the flavour (It's a workhorse that eats dirt and spits out mud, why would it want to add supports to keep its body up? Wouldn't Slack Off make more sense?), but that's where my qualms with this sub end. Other people have been saying that this will be overshadowed by other Grounds but I feel like they're unfamiliar with Stamina because you rarely see it, it's an extremely good ability on anything with recovery. 100/110 physical bulk that raises every time you hit it makes this nearly impossible to break physically unless you're something like Crawdaunt or broken Zarude, or you SD on the switch. Body Press is also pretty crazy with Stamina + Recovery, since it allows you to put on pressure without having to attack, you're just becoming scarier every time they hit you. Combined with its high natural Attack, I'd argue this would make Mudsdale the second-least passive bulky Ground in the tier behind defensive Lando, which is a pretty big deal. Of course, it's still at high risk of dying to strong attacks on the special side, but a mon like this needs that kind of weakness to be balanced.
And after that wall of text we just have worse Raikou. Fun.
TLDR Mudsdale good and underrated, Goon and Arch good but kind of the same, Jolteon meh, EVire dumb
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Short thoughts
Can we ban Electivire, it is too constricting on play. Despite it being lower tiered since it's introduction Electivire is far too constricting in the builder, due to its insane Fighting type + Magnet Pull combo, and solid offensive stats, and absolutely bonkers movepool. This thing is a monster that should be banned, I run into a game with somebody that's running Electivire I forfeit on preview. Unless I have something that hard counters it I lose, that's it. Ban Electivire. I try to use balance I lose, I try to use offense I use stall. Always losing to Electivire, ban it now. No thank you. MPull + Fighting-type is way too insane, considering this things movepool.
The second best choice we got this slate. Guts is fun and this can also kill Zarude, and it can outspeed stuff now. I like it.
Archeops got the buff it needed all along, a new ability. I really really like it now that it's actually able to do things.
Use any other Electric type, specifically Raikou now that it just got a buff.
Use any other Ground-type See Tapler's thoughts on this guy, its underrated, though I kinda agree with the other thoughts made in this thread too? Idk to say the least.
The second best choice we got this slate. Guts is fun and this can also kill Zarude, and it can outspeed stuff now. I like it. Archeops got the buff it needed all along, a new ability. I really really like it now that it's actually able to do things. Use any other Electric type, specifically Raikou now that it just got a buff.