Resource SS OU Viability Ranking Thread [See post #321]

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(Finch is it bad form to copy my post from Usage Stats? I actually meant to post it here.)

Can I nominate a mon for ranking? Because I believe Salazzle is an OU contender. Honestly, I think it’s more viable than any of the C ranked mons, and even many of the B ranked mons. It supports its teammates by pressuring Fairies and poisoning walls like no body else can, including Hazers like Toxapex and Vaporeon, and steel types like Corviknight, Aegislash and Ferrothorn. Truly, getting getting your opponent’s Hazer (or Quagsire) Toxic puts them in a nasty spot if you’re pairing Salazzle with a bulky win con like Bulk Up Corviknight, DD Renuclius or Curse Snorlax, as the cannot stay in and Haze you indefinitely while you accumulate boosts.

——————-

So for a while I’ve been trying to find mons that get momentum against Clefable and Sylveon, two of the most annoying users of Wish+Protect. I find Rotom-H lacking in terms of staying power and mons like Centiscortch and Flareon, while interesting, are pretty niche, and easy to take advantage of.

You might be thinking a sweepy Nasty Plot set would work to break balance teams, but come on. While Salazzle has an undeniably great 117 speed stat and a very respectable 111 sp attack stat. A set like that can’t do much work in a meta full of scarfers, Dragapult, Dugtrio, Vaporeon, Seismatoad and Toxapex.

However, I’ve developed a set that is Old School Sub+Toxic Gliscor levels of annoying.

Seriously.

The set:

Salazzle (F) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Corrosion
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Substitute
- Disable
- Toxic

This mon is a total menace to teams unprepared to deal with it.

Why no fire move you ask? Well it needs Sludge Wave to offensively pressure the fairies, especially Clefable (immune to Toxic) and Hatterene (which has Magic Bounce), and Prankster Taunt Grimmsnarl. Thankfully, with Corrosion Toxic, you can still punish Steel and Poison switch ins, which is actually the point.

It works like this:

Get it in on a fairy or something passive like Ferrothorn or Toxapex or even Vaporeon or Mandibuzz and throw up a sub. Most Clefables or Sylveons will go for Protect to scout you, so typically this sub is free. Since Sallazle 4x resists Moonblast and Hyper Voice, pressure the fairies out with Sludge Wave. Once they’re pushed out, start using Toxic. And with Corrosion, you can poison more obvious solutions like Corviknight or Toxapex.

(Note: while Salazzle can handedly take Moonblast or Mystic Fire, the Sp Attack drops remove its ability to 2HKO beefy Clefable and Sylveon, so try to avoid hard switches, if possible.)

Most defensive mons only have one attacking move, so when you’re in a situation against say Thunderbolt Clefable, or Toxapex or Vaporeon using Scald, or Corviknight using Brave Bird, Excadrill using EQ etc, use Disable after they break your sub and throw it up again. Then watch the player at a loss of what to do as their defensive or offensive mon slowly bleeds to death. Heh, even if Dugtrio gets in, if you’re behind a Sub, anticipate a faster EQ incoming, just use Disable and then start hitting them with Sludge Wave. Lulz.

What if they bring in a choice user, like Scarf Gengar or Hydregoin or Dracovish? Disable as they hit you and then laugh as they either have to Struggle or switch out while you throw up another sub.

(Side note: Protect+Sub let’s you Toxic stall more efficiently while preserving health, but leaves you exposed when the opposition switches. The Sub also protects Salazzle from the aforementioned Moonblast/Mystic Fire Sp Atk drops that lets it apply pressure on the Fairies. Matter of opinion, I prefer Sub+Disable, but Protect is an option.

Another alternative: Run Modest nature. This lets you hit a bit harder with SW while losing a bit of speed. You no longer outspeed unscarfed Gengar, but since a lot of them are scarfed anyway, this isn’t so bad)

————-

Now there is counter play to Salazzle of course. Let’s go through them!

Infiltrator Dragapult, who is naturally faster and can bypass the sub and sound move users like Boomburst Kommo-O, Hyper Voice Indedee and Heliolisk, and Toxitricity (but not Hyper Voice Sylveon or Bug Buzz users, again, 4x resists). Still. These guys can’t get in without saking something or doing a slow pivot without taking a Toxic to the face. If they do get in, remember to switch out to a counter, even when your sub is up.

Seismatoad, Gastrodon and Quagsire who have two STABs that can break the sub, but still eats a Toxic. Since Toad lacks recovery, this pretty much invalidates it as a counter to your other mons, and Gastro and Quag are pressured by their status.

Volt Switchers, like the Rotoms, taking out the Sub (not U-Turn though, we still have that handy 4x resist to Bug). If they aren’t scarfed, they’re still eating a SW or a Toxic. But! This is exactly why Salazzle is a great partner for Bulk Up Corviknight. Rotom can only take on SW before it can no longer switch in, on once that happens, Corvi is usually in a good spot to win the game, with its main counter dead or weakened.

Dugtrio, if our sub is down, outspeeds and murders you, obviously.

Aromatherapy? Kinda. Since most of these users are Fairy or Grass types, they can’t switch in to Salazzle to heal its mates, because of that strong SW threat.

You might think your multi-hit attackers like Cloyster or the rare Cincinno would work to force Salazzle out but again, they can’t get in without getting hit by Toxic, or otherwise, dying to SW. Salazzle outspeeds them both.

Renuclius, Sigilpyph and Xatu who are immune to Toxic damage, can set up with Calm Mind or heal off SW damage, and threaten us with Psychic stab or coverage moves. But again, they’re all slower than Salazzle so again, Disable that Psychic STAB, so if they don’t have coverage moves, again, they’re in for a hard time.

And then the best actual counters:

Rest users like Snorlax and Centiscortch, who tank SW with ease and don’t care about Toxic, at all. These are the true counters who render Salazzle useless.

And finally, speed modifying strats like Sticky Web, Trick Room and Tailwind, which ruin Salazzle’s great 117 speed tier.


And as another thing to note, Salazzle is prone to letting the opposition set up hazards on it, so always bring a Defogger or Spinner if you don’t want to get overwhelmed by those.

——————

To see all this in practice: here’s a game of Salazzle doing some work, against Dragapult Excadrill and Cloyster, all viable/would be checks, and putting DD Renuclius in a position to win the game.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1060127902
 
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Agree that R-wash should go up to B+
It's ability to run not just HDB or take 25 from rocks is an advantage over Heat, and actually being able to attack twice with its stab unlike heat or mow. It can also beat most of what Heat beats just as easily other than clef and ferro, but ferro hates trick anyways and isn't very good. It beats Heat in a 1v1 and unlike heat beats hippowdon and ttar and has a better matchup vs toad (though still switch out lol). Over mow it has the great advantage of not dying to fire and ice type move coverage on pult and clef and being able to freely switch into a brave bird from corvi. It's typing and access to non -2 spA moves just distinguishes itself from the other rotoms and I believe it deserves B+. If mowtom is in A- mainly because it beats up toad, washtom should also as it beats heattom and more.
zapdos come back i hate looking at that oven

idk whether this is a nom or an agreement but idc tbh

Idk whether it's impolite to post twice but I think that salazzle should go to C or C- no higher.
It's good points have already been mentioned, but look. Salazzle is about as bulky as a paper bag soaked is sodium hydroxide. Clef breaks sub with fire blast. Duggy kills with sludge wave and cb 2hkos with sucker punch. 4x weakness to ground and weakness to rock is bad. Also you are really talking up the impact of toxic. It ruins things like toad, true, but does pult really care that much? Of course it's a pain in the ass to deal with but to sweepers it isn't their biggest problem. Speaking of pult, why not just use subdisable pult? Pult has a better typing, better speed, Hex, infiltrator, and better defenses. Salazzle is too niche because pult outclasses in almost all ways.
 
Agree that R-wash should go up to B+
It's ability to run not just HDB or take 25 from rocks is an advantage over Heat, and actually being able to attack twice with its stab unlike heat or mow. It can also beat most of what Heat beats just as easily other than clef and ferro, but ferro hates trick anyways and isn't very good. It beats Heat in a 1v1 and unlike heat beats hippowdon and ttar and has a better matchup vs toad (though still switch out lol). Over mow it has the great advantage of not dying to fire and ice type move coverage on pult and clef and being able to freely switch into a brave bird from corvi. It's typing and access to non -2 spA moves just distinguishes itself from the other rotoms and I believe it deserves B+. If mowtom is in A- mainly because it beats up toad, washtom should also as it beats heattom and more.
zapdos come back i hate looking at that oven

idk whether this is a nom or an agreement but idc tbh

Idk whether it's impolite to post twice but I think that salazzle should go to C or C- no higher.
It's good points have already been mentioned, but look. Salazzle is about as bulky as a paper bag soaked is sodium hydroxide. Clef breaks sub with fire blast. Duggy kills with sludge wave and cb 2hkos with sucker punch. 4x weakness to ground and weakness to rock is bad. Also you are really talking up the impact of toxic. It ruins things like toad, true, but does pult really care that much? Of course it's a pain in the ass to deal with but to sweepers it isn't their biggest problem. Speaking of pult, why not just use subdisable pult? Pult has a better typing, better speed, Hex, infiltrator, and better defenses. Salazzle is too niche because pult outclasses in almost all ways.
Am I arguing Salazzle is generally better than Sub Hex Dragapult? Nope.

Does Salazzle have a niche over Dragapult? You better believe it.

Pivoting in and quickly pressuring Clefable and Sylveon and Grimmsnarl out is a niche Dragapult could only dream of.

Also, Defensive Clefable does not generally run Fire Blast or Thunderbolt. Life Orb Clefable does, but LO Clef doesn’t invest in the same amount of bulk Def Clefable does, meaning SW is going to murder it outright, if you’re running Modest.

And in the event Def Clef does run two attacks, that’s what Disable is for.

Also, while Salaz is weak to SR, it also soaks up Toxic Spikes, and you should consider Sallazle is immune to Poison (besides from itself OC) and Burns, which Sub Hex Dragapult is nurtured by.

Also, also! After Disabling Dugtrio’s EQ, you get to play Sub+Toxic mindgames for Sucker Punch.
 
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I think Seismitoad should move down another sub-rank. Its role compression will always be appreciated, but as a bulky water I'd say it's facing some increased competition from Vaporeon due to the latter's access to reliable recovery. Having the rare Toxic is nice, but it does nothing to ameliorate Seismitoad's problem with virtually every variant of Clefable, which is very popular lately. Also, the uptick in Rotom-C usage hurts Seismitoad a lot. While a lot of this usage was brought upon by Toad itself, Rotom-C is still a strong overall Pokemon due to its good matchup against many of the tier's balance cores. I still think Toad is a good Pokemon, but trends don't favor it. Many of the things it was designed to counter, like Rain HO or Dracovish webs, are considerably worse than they were 2 months ago, and there are more reliable counters to those strategies like the aforementioned Vaporeon anyway.
 
Hey, guys. I would like to nominate an underrated pokemon that might be seen as a gimmick but can actually put in work: Cinccino.
573.png

Cinccino's base 115 Speed ensures it outspeeds a plethora of OU threats ranging from the likes of Kommo-o to Gengar. Its wide coverage in Rock Blast, Bullet Seed and Knock Off as well as its support options in U-Turn momentum and Thunder Wave paralysis all make Cinccino a pretty versatile pokemon. In the OU metagame, I've found decent success with a King's Rock breaker set. With Thunder Wave, Cinccino can punish the likes of Corviknight and Kommo-o, while coverage Bullet Seed and Tail Slap takes care of Seismitoad, Toxapex and Clefable thanks to King's Rock (it's specially satisfying to see a Toxapex flinch while trying to Recover).
Here are some replays to prove Cinccino's viability:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1061621832
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1061537246
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1061497413
It obviously has its flaws, but I believe Cinccino has an underexplored niche as a breaker in the tier. Therefore, I am nominating Cinccino to C-.
 
1581463837798.png
to B+ or A-I think the pokemon grimmsnarl deserved more prominence because it can provide support through screens for sweepers extremely used in this generation, for example, cloyster takes ohko for a hydreigon with Draco Meteor, however if light screen is active cloyster can easily handle the um, the same also with foul play can take down threats like the cloyster itself if it uses shell smash, in addition to its incredible spirit break it can end most dragon types, besides being able to stop dracovish with scarf with thunderwave (even if this move may cost the pokemon's life) but it may be the only way to stop a dracovish late game sweep with fishious rend, and the pokemon is very versatile and sometimes unpredictable, where it can be as offensive as it can be screen setter, however difficult, with the support of reflect, and evs in defense and hp, grimmsnarl can easily with the support of reflect, destroy excadrill in 2 hits from Fo ul Play, Annihilate aegislash-B
also with foul play, grimmsnarl can prevent corviknight from using defog, or from putting itself behind a sub-set with taunt
 

Attachments

Hey, guys. I would like to nominate an underrated pokemon that might be seen as a gimmick but can actually put in work: Cinccino.
View attachment 222830
Cinccino's base 115 Speed ensures it outspeeds a plethora of OU threats ranging from the likes of Kommo-o to Gengar. Its wide coverage in Rock Blast, Bullet Seed and Knock Off as well as its support options in U-Turn momentum and Thunder Wave paralysis all make Cinccino a pretty versatile pokemon. In the OU metagame, I've found decent success with a King's Rock breaker set. With Thunder Wave, Cinccino can punish the likes of Corviknight and Kommo-o, while coverage Bullet Seed and Tail Slap takes care of Seismitoad, Toxapex and Clefable thanks to King's Rock (it's specially satisfying to see a Toxapex flinch while trying to Recover).
Here are some replays to prove Cinccino's viability:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1061621832
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1061537246
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1061497413
It obviously has its flaws, but I believe Cinccino has an underexplored niche as a breaker in the tier. Therefore, I am nominating Cinccino to C-.
At this point lets nominate Beat up King rock Weavile or anything abusing KR into C- , spreading the yellow color and fishing for para flinch is a dogshit playstyle and yet it works , hopefully after Duggtrio gets the boot King rock is right after .

Trapinch UR to C- : the replay speaks for itself , what it does got already argued on the Duggy/AT thread
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1058291190-h1ry1isa0sqa3t3dldvyxx0keie67nopw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1059420759
 
At this point lets nominate Beat up King rock Weavile or anything abusing KR into C- , spreading the yellow color and fishing for para flinch is a dogshit playstyle and yet it works , hopefully after Duggtrio gets the boot King rock is right after .

Trapinch UR to C- : the replay speaks for itself , what it does got already argued on the Duggy/AT thread
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1058291190-h1ry1isa0sqa3t3dldvyxx0keie67nopw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1059420759
lol, big difference between king rock skill's link and king rocks w/o skill's link
 
Not sure what your point is, unless it's that we should ban Skill Link / Beat Up instead of King's Rock (which is dumb, only one of these elements relies totally on RNG and has no use outside of cheese).
My point is that Skill Link is what makes King's Rock on cloyster so effective, so Beat up King's Rock on Weavile wouldn't be nearly as reliable
Also the word ban never came up, so not sure where you pulled that from
 
My point is that Skill Link is what makes King's Rock on cloyster so effective, so Beat up King's Rock on Weavile wouldn't be nearly as reliable
As reliable, no, but it still accomplishes the same stupid cheese, it just requires smarter play to do it as its effectiveness drops severely as it loses teammates. Either way I don't think Weavile is a huge pressing issue, I think Cloyster is the main offender and King's Rock + Multihit in general just being dumb, hax-based, and uncompetitive.

Also the word ban never came up, so not sure where you pulled that from
Do you, like, actually read people's posts? Sorry I forgot who I was talking to for a moment, of course you don't.
hopefully after Duggtrio gets the boot King rock is right after .
 
As reliable, no, but it still accomplishes the same stupid cheese, it just requires smarter play to do it as its effectiveness drops severely as it loses teammates. Either way I don't think Weavile is a huge pressing issue, I think Cloyster is the main offender and King's Rock + Multihit in general just being dumb, hax-based, and uncompetitive.
Ok wait, hold up.
Did you just suggest non skill link KR accomplishes same thing as skill link KR.
Cloyster w/o skill link would be a very very unreliable and bad KR user. Also, wdym play smarter, we're assuming we're talking about the same highly skilled player here, you can't play smarter to increase the number of rolls you get.
 
Ok wait, hold up.
Did you just suggest non skill link KR accomplishes same thing as skill link KR.
Cloyster w/o skill link would be a very very unreliable and bad KR user. Also, wdym play smarter, we're assuming we're talking about the same highly skilled player here, you can't play smarter to increase the number of rolls you get.
beat up is consistent unlike other multi hit moves. if all your guys are alive then it always hits 6 times and so on. skill link is unnecessary in this scenario.

anyway why is drill so high? spin is alright but it feels really mediocre both offensively and defensively, all but the most passive of clef sets have ways to prevent it from spinning and defog corvi blocks any attempts it makes to do things offensively. ground/steel really isn't that great, feels like the majority of mons can hit it super effectively, and it also gets trapped by dug.

even without corvi in the equation there are a lot of mons that can switch in on drill pretty consistently. physdef kommo-o, hippo, and (kinda) toad can eat +2 attacks and smack drill in return.

i can see it being in like a or a-, but a+ feels out of the question to me.
 
I'm just trying to drive home the point that KR isn't effective w/ just any multi hit move.
Referring to Beat Up Weavile, which isn't just any multi hit move. Like I said, read please. Or don't, I'm done with this conversation anyways, no point derailing this thread any further because you can't seem to grasp the very simple concept of what I'm trying to say.
 
The problem with KR strategies isn't that they are reliable or highly effective, it's that they are inconsistent and random. The only purposes of using them is to attempt to cheese a win in generally unfavorable situations. They didn't appear to be an issue in previous gens because they were so inconsistent they weren't worth using. Now there's a considerable chance your counterplay to this garbage can be squandered by RNG.
 

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Hello everyone, the results of the third slate (first post-home slate) are up.


Nomination
New Pkmn
Zeraora
Terrakion
Kyurem
Jirachi
Keldeo
Primarina
Necrozma
Celebi
Venusaur
Ninetales-Alola
Incineroar
Blastoise
Darmanitan
Raises
AegislashA+ to S
DracovishA- to A
CloysterB+ to A-
BisharpB to B+ or A-
GrimmsnarlB to B+
MamoswineB to B+
Rotom-WashB to B+ or A-
MantineUR to B-/B/B+
DittoB- to B
MewC+ to B-
RhyperiorC+ to B-
WeavileUR to C-/C
TorkoalUR to C+ or B-/B
Drops
GengarA to A-
HippowdonA- to B+
Rotom-MowA- to B+
SigilyphB+ to B
ToxtricityB to B-
Corsola-GalarC+ to C
CentiskorchC+ to C
FlareonC to C-
UmbreonC to C-

After the OU VR Council both voted on and discussed all of these Pokemon, the following changes will be made to the OU VR:

New Pokemon Ranks
  • is A+: Despite never sticking in OU last generation, Zeraora has stood out as a strong pick in SS. A great speed tier coupled with coverage that allows for it to make quick work of common cores goes a long way in this metagame. With sweeping capabilities thanks to Bulk Up, mixed breaking capabilities thanks to Grass Knot, and plenty more at its disposal, Zeraora has blossomed into a potent presence in the metagame with plenty of usage. In the first week of post-home SPL, Zeraora saw a whopping 40% usage and there are not any signs of this slowing down. While this is a small sample size and there is so much more to draw off of in this developing metagame, Zeraora is a great addition to the tier nevertheless. It is not quite on par with S tier threats such as Clefable, which is easily the face of the tier at this point, but it is still in the picture and easily deserving of a place in A+.
  • is A: Terrakion's release came alongside a great deal of hype. It has met most of these expectation, too. While Terrakion may not be breaking the tier wide open, it is still a strong option with a couple threatening sets. Choice Band and Swords Dance variants both have merit right now as breaking options; there are very few hard counters to Terrakion because of this, but the metagame still has a fair share of natural checks ranging from revenge killers to things that are able to avoid the OHKO and kill back. Terrakion is not going to take the tier by storm singlehandedly, but it is good enough to stick around and make a clear impact, leaving it in the middle of A rank.
  • is A: With the addition of Freeze Dry, Kyurem has found itself one of the most threatening special attackers in the metagame. While it still has a crippling weakness to Stealth Rock and a speed tier that allows for revenge killing, Kyurem is a force to be reckon with. Freeze Dry allows for Pokemon like Toxapex and Rotom-Wash to be punished when they normally could pivot into Ice Beam easily. Specs Draco Meteor and Ice Beam also hit very hard, making any potential check think twice before pivoting in. Finally, Earth Power coverage lets you hit Aegislash, too. All things considered: Kyurem is one of the most threatening Pokemon in the metagame and deserves this high ranking despite some unfortunate vulnerabilities.
  • is A-: Jirachi is a bit awkward in the current metagame as Dugtrio can make quick work of non-Ccarf sets and various common walls like Toxapex can stop its progress, but it offers a lot of utility. Between having the ability to support teammates, cripple opponents, and check things like Clefable, Jirachi has carved out a respectable niche in this metagame, which is enough for it to reside in A- for the time being.
  • is B+: Keldeo can be a strong special attacker with Choice Specs or a win condition with Calm Mind, but it has too many natural checks and counters in the metagame to standout. Keldeo is still a viable option and the B+ ranking reflects that, but it is a far cry from being the top tier Pokemon it was in both BW and ORAS.
  • is B: Primarina has a decent niche in the metagame. It is able to fire off strong special attacks while also serving as a trapper with the combination of Whirlpool and Perish Song. It is not quite a metagame staple, but it is able to pick off a Pokemon most games against balance, which can go a long way with certain teams.
  • is B: Necrozma is able to set-up on teams with screens or Aurora Veil and pose an immediate threat to opposing teams. It has a great ability to pull this off, especially with Weakness Policy equipped.
  • is B-: Venusaur makes for a potent special attacker on Sun teams with the ability Chlorophyll.
  • is C+: Celebi is a versatile Pokemon with a handful of utility moves at its disposal. While it has not caught on quite yet, sporadic usage is enough to warrant a C+ ranking.
  • is C+: Incineroar is a respectable pivot with Parting Shot and Heavy Duty Boots. It is trappable and finds itself walled by a number of common Pokemon, so it is largely limited to pivoting, but it still has viability nevertheless.
  • is C: Ninetales-Alola can function as a lead on hyper offensive teams. With Snow Warning, it can set up Aurora Veil to support a number of common offensive options.
  • is C: Darmanitan is a viable Choice Scarf user. It recently obtained Trick and it also is a very strong Pokemon with high attack and Sheer Force.

Old Pokemon Rises
  • rises from B+ to A-: Shell Smash Cloyster is quite common right now. It has the potential to sweep through unprepared teams with ease while also taking on teams that have checks to it with the aid of a single King's Rock flinch. A- is more fitting seeing as it is something people actively prepare for and Cloyster finds itself onto more offensive teams on a regular basis.
  • rises from B to B+: Bisharp gained access to Knock Off, which makes it even more threatening. It has seen a slight increase in usage and viability because of this.
  • rises from B to B+: Mamoswine is very strong and in this metagame where offensive Ice types seem to be prepared for insufficiently on a regular basis, people are abusing this and using Mamoswine more than before. Choice Band Mamoswine has been breaking through balance cores for a bit now and this reflects that as well.
  • rises from B to B+: After falling off a bit, Rotom-Wash has regained access to Pain Split and now it has more viability on the defensive end of the spectrum. It is not quite top tier like it once was in OU, but Rotom-Wash is a great utility presence and pivot now. It also can still viably fulfill the roles it did in the pre-home metagame, too.
  • rises from UR to B: Mantine is a staple on Rain teams with Swift Swim and it also has a niche as a Defog user with Heavy Duty Boots. Substitute + Metronome variants are particularly devastating on Rain teams.
  • : rises from B- to B: After falling completely off the map once Dynamax got banned, Ditto is slowly finding itself a niche again in a fairly hectic, developing metagame. This is no surprise, but the sustainability of Ditto is still questionable at best.
  • rises from UR to B-: Sun teams are pretty interesting right now. They are inconsistent, but viable nevertheless. Torkoal is the best Sun setter right now; it has Rapid Spin and Stealth Rock to give it some utility beyond Drought. It falls in B- for the time being, reflecting the overall viability of the playstyle. This is similarly reflected in Venusaur's ranking.
  • rises from UR to C: Weavile got destroyed by Pursuit being removed from the game and Knock Off being unavailable to it pre-home. It did gain access to Knock Off with home being released and people have started to make note of this, using it sporadically. Weavile is seen as a fringe viable option at this point in time, but this could change for the better in the future as more people explore with it moving forward.

Old Pokemon Drops
  • drops from A to A-: Initially, Gengar was one of the most threatening Pokemon. Over time, the metagame has adapted to it and other threats have gained more traction. Given how little defensive merit it has, Gengar now is suffering in a congested metagame with plenty of competition. It dropped a little as a result of this.
  • drops from A- to B+: Hippowdon was already borderline A-/B+ to begin with. We have seen a lot less of it recently and not much has given people more reason to use it aside from Zeraora, which is one of many new Pokemon/strategies out there. Because of this, it dropped back down to B+.
  • from A- to B: Rotom-Mow has fallen off the face of the Earth. It was once a strong option with Substitute + Nasty Plot, but now it very rarely finds its way onto teams due to it having a worse typing than the other, more common Rotoms. In addition, it also faces competition from Ferrothorn as a Grass type.
  • drops from B+ to B-: Magic Guard Sigilyph had a great niche in the pre-home metagame, but the increase in Knock Off distribution coupled with so many new threats to it being released makes it a lot harder to justify using. In addition, natural checks to it are simply more common than before, which makes it hard to be productive with when utilized.
  • drops from B to C+: Toxtricity is a powerhouse on the special side, but it lacks bulk or speed. This coupled with being trappable does not bode well for Toxtricity. While it can pivot in on Fairy types like Clefable, it is going to need a little bit more than just that to last in this metagame.
  • from C+ to C: The annoying fire bug is still clinging on to some viability, but it is extremely niche and should not be considered a consistent option on serious teams. Being able to check some Fairy types is superb, but it is very limited, plenty of things simply shrug it off, and it does not provide much else, which is rough considering a lot of other things can fill this role while also doing so much more.
  • drops from C+ to C-: Corsola-Galar was an interesting prospect at first, but people have noticed that it is not a good option in the metagame as more time elapsed. In addition, Knock Off gaining more distribution makes it far less appealing than before, which leads to an even bigger fall in viability.
  • from C to C-: Umbreon can be used as a Wish supporter and specially defensive wall, but it is very uncommon and oftentimes not worth using when you can use Wish on other things and then Mandibuzz or Hydreigon as your Dark type of choice.
  • from C to UR: Once upon a time, Flareon was viable in OU. Then, the playerbase woke up and realized this was OU, not PU. Now, Flareon is no longer viable in OU.
Thanks to everyone for their patience; the metagame experienced unprecedented shifts due to the release of home without much warning. We were already in a developmental stage as is, but this made it even more hectic, which makes forming a proper VR a struggle that takes some time and discussion internally.
 

Finchinator

IT'S FINK DUMBASS
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Finally, I am keeping this thread locked for the entirety of Sunday. There are going to be lots of new nominations regarding the Pokemon that were released or experience significant changes in viability. People can use the next day to determine how they feel and gather their thoughts in an appropriate fashion. In the meantime, the OP will be updated to reflect the changes within the next day. Thanks to everyone for understanding!
 

Ruft

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Gastrodon B → B+

Gastrodon makes for a great pick as a bulky Water-type right now. It has similar qualities to Seismitoad in that it has both a Water and Electric immunity, but it trades access to Stealth Rock with access to Recover and Amnesia. Recover makes it a much more reliable and consistent check to the likes of Dragapult and Rotom-H and means it doesn't need Wish support as much as Seismitoad does, opening up something like Calm Mind Clefable as a valid partner, which is an amazing wincon right now. Amnesia is quite useful to shut down a lot of special threats, including Mantine in rain, which makes it so that Gastrodon can prove to be something of an impenetrable wall to a lot of opposing rain teams. Not having access to Stealth Rock isn't all that bad since there are a bunch of other very functional rockers you can pair it up with, mainly Kommo-o but also Clefable. Overall, I think B definitely undersells it and that it deserves to reside in B+ instead.
 
I agree with above. Gastrodon can be used as a defensive mon in this metagame, both of which actually work. The defensive role composing of toxic and recover is really annoying to play against, especially since its typing is really good defensively. It's only weakness, grass, is a very common type that is resisted by a plethora of mons, and most can easily switch in and force the opponent out. One advantage gastrodon has over seismitoad is recovery, which I mentioned before. The only advantage I really see seismitoad having over gastrodon is rocks, which is not necessitated on gastrodon especially since mons that have more pressure generally throw up rocks (exca, dug, etc.) It hard bodies all rotom forms (bar rotom leaf), as most can't literally deal much damage since a: it is immune to all rotom's electric moves, and most typings are either ineffective or just not good against gastrodon's good bulk and access to recover. As for rotom-leaf, it doesn't really have any recovery bar lefties, and so a prediction with toxic or scald burn with rocks up will eventually kill the rotom. It's ability also lets it soak up water moves and become more offensive. It also has access to ice beam for a more offensive role. It especially deals with toxapex well if played carefully (maybe even forcefully getting a burn so toxapex cant toxic it), as scald increases its special attack and can just fire back earth powers that toxapex can't really recover. It's able to come in on so many threats and threaten with burn or toxic, which is really nice. Overall, gastrodon appears to be a hidden, unexplored mon that actually seems to have decent viability in this meta.
 
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