Resource SS OU Viability Ranking Thread [See post #321]

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Robot, you misinterpret "forcing balance to run fighting priority" as "forcing Fighting-type Pokemon to run fighting priority." If I responded to the rest, this argument would be circular.
He's still got a point though. No team archetype is running Fighting priority purely or even primarily for Cloyster over other threats like Hydreigon and Bisharp. I suspect you knew this, and refusing to respond to the rest of his post accordingly seems like pedantry to me.

Anyways, support Gengar being raised to A-, why does this Pokemon always get slept on? Gengar loves the slower SS metagame and Specs all-out-attacker just shits on most balances while not being completely deadweight against HO. I've been using double Ghost cores with Gengar + Aegislash or Gengar + Dragapult and you legit just shit on most teams once you chip their Mandi or whatever Ghost resist they've got.

Cloyster's a definite threat but I'm not sold on it being like B material, I'd rather see it start somewhere in the Cs and move up if time warrants it.

Aegislash is legit kinda broken lol, not sure even A+ does this thing justice, I'd say there's a reasonably solid argument for Aegislash being in S but I can't be fucked to make it.
 
Unfortunately, in this case, Cloyster's weaknesses outweight it's strengths too much to be in A-, or even B.
Your comparison to Corviknight doesn't even make sense; Corv is significantly better, and Corv can indeed Bulk Up on Rotom, Rotom usually only carries Volt Switch, and deals like 40 something, therefore Corv can roost off the damage after.
Hydro Pump also does less, so your analogy is also pretty weak.
Cloyster is definitely not one of the main reasons Balance is running fighting priority, Conk runs fighting priority regardless of the presense of Cloyster; it just makes sense due to its slow speed and really doesn't have anything else to run bar Defog (which is a fringe pick on Conk anyways).
Lucario also doesn't run fighting priority because of Cloyster, it runs it because it's speed is middling at best, and it wants a way to deal with faster threats like Hydreigon.
Except the few scarf trick rotom-h , I would say over 1800 9 times out of 10 its lefties np sub discharge rotom-c/w or straight hdb np rotom-h , hell no
rotom is set-up bait for corv , and yes Screen HO Cloyster+Bisharp/Goon forces balance to run Conk ....

Warning incoming I guess tbh out of all the stuff written in this thread and the meta one your by far the most irrelevant user , even the bulletproof moonblast guy holds more than you in my eyes .

Shit aside Cloyster is definitely B+ / A- worthy
 
Some noms I agree with:

:Mandibuzz: A+ -> A
Gary summed up this mon very well. Due to current meta trends, the challenges it faces from Ghosts, Nasty 3 attacks Hydrei, and Conk are pretty commonplace. Also one of its selling points being defog is simultaneously a weakness for another pokemon I’ve been seeing more of: Bisharp. Helping this thing get +2 on switch in while trying to remove hazards can really be a rough shift in momentum.

Edit: Until you realize Bisharp has to flinch to win 1v1.

:kommo-o: B+ -> A-
This one I tenatively agree with. Kommo-o has some unique strengths and weaknesses. It is the only fighting/Dragon, which grants it some cool resistances but also 4x weakness to fairy. Ouch.

Both its abilities have some nice perks. The main draw I see with taking Bulletproof over soundproof is that it blocks Shadow ball which is nice against choice locked Aegislash and dragapult. It can also be a real surprise factor for ghosts expecting soundproof. However the flipside is that a Slyveon player ballsy enough to call your bluff is gonna wreck Kommo-o.

Clangerous soul builds are fun sweepers, but also a very high risk high reward playstyle. You have to commit to your boost because once you’ve used throatspray and lost 1/3 your health, switching out seems like a bad idea. If you can assist clangerous Kommo-o with webs and a timid nature you can alleviate some pressure on this set tho. And its signature move being soundbased is very helpful against sub sets used by pult and occasionally Hydrei. But soundproof Kommo will just laugh at you.

Ultimately I have mixed feelings about moving Kommo-o into A territory. I can see it moving to A- but no higher. Otherwise just keep it at the top of B+ which makes sense as this dragon requires team support to truly shine.

:Cloyster: Unranked -> Ranked
It’s probably C/C+ for sure. Just definately not A- material. Let’s be reasonable lol. And imo it’s better to run a sash set with shell smash/icecle spear/spikes/explosion over just about anything else. Not much more to say on it because honestly I haven’t encountered a single one on ladder to form an educated opinion.

Thanks for reading and Hope this offered a few fresh insights. :psyglad:
 
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Also one of its selling points being defog is simultaneously a weakness for another pokemon I’ve been seeing more of: Bisharp.
I just want to point this out for anyone that doesnt run mandibuzz and would agree to you. Bisharp in no way is a threat unless it flinches twice. It's so much of a non threat, that I don't mind defogging in its face. even at +3 unless it flinches you, it cant actually kill you but you for damn sure will kill it. id even go so far as to say Bisharp really isn't a threat in the first place and that it should be c+ rank but ill have someone else make that argument since I’m too woke for yall to understand my pov
 
I'll respond to your post, and then I'll stop since a mod will almost certainly stop the Cloyster discussion after this. It's obviously dragging on for too long now.

Counterplay for cloyster is as follows:
GK seismitoad (lives as long as its above 90% and returns with a OHKO)
Ferrothorn (typically running max defense currently in order to "check" dracovish and can smack cloyster with powerwhip/leech seed+protect
scarf hydra/Dragapult (pretty sure both of these outspeed if adamant?)
Aegislash (resists both skill link moves and threatens to demolish it with Sball/flash cannon)
Toxapex (toxic+baneful bunker, or just haze it lol)
Rotom-Wash (Deals roughly under 50% to defensive rotom-w and must run explosion in order to break it)
All of the above lose 41% of the time to a +2 Cloyster. You don't need Explosion to break any of them. You simply flinch them. They all get 2hkoed at +2 after rocks bar Pex which I addressed separately in my post, also outside of Toxic sets, Pex just loses. This also assumes that all of these mons will be at full which is rarely the case. Of course, without King's Rock they all beat Cloyster, but that's clearly irrelevant since that is the set.

This isn't even factoring for the fact if you run "kings rock" you are at risk of getting ohko'd by virtually every special attack which can make setting up pretty risky in many situations. Also speaking of kings rock, that just sounds like a low ladder set, why bother using it over somthing thats more useful like focus sash or white herb instead of relying on hax to be on your side.
If you try to set-up against a special attacker you'll die. Don't do this.

My replays would suggest King's Rock is the opposite of a low ladder set. I've posted several examples of two different Cloyster teams that have topped the ladder using it.
 
I'll respond to your post, and then I'll stop since a mod will almost certainly stop the Cloyster discussion after this. It's obviously dragging on for too long now.



All of the above lose 41% of the time to a +2 Cloyster. You don't need Explosion to break any of them. You simply flinch them. They all get 2hkoed at +2 after rocks bar Pex which I addressed separately in my post, also outside of Toxic sets, Pex just loses. This also assumes that all of these mons will be at full which is rarely the case. Of course, without King's Rock they all beat Cloyster, but that's clearly irrelevant since that is the set.



If you try to set-up against a special attacker you'll die. Don't do this.

My replays would suggest King's Rock is the opposite of a low ladder set. I've posted several examples of two different Cloyster teams that have topped the ladder using it.
So because this thing beats it’s checks 41% of the time that somehow makes it’s consistent enough to warrant an A ranking? Like you are aware that 41% is worse than a coin flip, right? That’s the opposite of consistency
 
Also Pex can take 3 hits of rock blast, and provided you don't double flinch (about a 16% chance) it just phazed you or poisoned you, effectively stopping you, and putting you in range to be revenge killed.
Sigh ;
+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 135-160 (44.4 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 1 layer of Spikes, and Black Sludge recovery
+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 135-160 (44.4 - 52.6%) -- approx. 88.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

Outside of Conk mach , Bisharp can be played around without mentioning a flinch , ferro is 2hko , pex is 2hko , aegi 2hko so every 2games it constantly passes through his checks thanks to Kingrock, scarf hydreigon dies to shard if prior damage / SWITCHING TWICE in rocks
And I don't understand "after two layers of rocks", Hydreigon is literally only affected by rocks, you can't have 2 rocks ;-;
Don't dare arguing what's relevant or not when typing stuff like that ok boo.. nah nevermind
 
Didn't expect to discuss Cloyster of all things but I feel like there are too many silly arguments here to ignore


View attachment 217167
lol
that's C+, not C. Go down another rank. It's right there. With garbage like Articuno and Golbat.
Have you forgotten that Ferro is part-Grass?
+2 252 Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 200-240 (56.8 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 150-176 (62.2 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Cloyster doesn't exactly like Ferro but it doesn't wall it either. Also, you can hit Bisharp with Liquidation if you run it
Have you forgotten Shell Smash drops Def? And no, no-one runs White Herb.
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Cloyster: 218-260 (90.4 - 107.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
And to run Liquidation he has to drop RB or lose out on priority. 4MSS. I was going off his set.
+2 Cloyster outspeeds Rotom-M
This is true. My bad.
Grimmsnarl is the only one here that's really relevant. Corv and Mandi get outsped by Cloyster, Hydreigon never runs Taunt, and to my knowledge neither do Cinderace or Obstagoon (also, Cinderace lose 1v1 anyway).
agree with most of this on reflection, Goon however can run Taunt, its 4th slot is really flexable, and I thought there was at least one bulky Hyd build with Taunt. Perhaps the meta isn't bulky enough for it yet.
Basically, IMO, for Cloyster to leave the C ranks as a sweeper it needs to be able to be put on teams that aren't specifically built to beat its answers, and it needs to fit on something other than HO. Because we are hardly short on sweepers RN (Hawlucha is currently twiddling its thumbs in UUBL), so Cloyster is just another one-dimensional sweeper among a sea of setup mons. We are currently debating whether DD Dracapult, LO (optional CM) Clef, NP Hydreigon or BU Corv is more worthy of being in S alongside all the other sets they can run. And those mons can be just thrown on a team pretty much, whereas Cloyster forces you to build around it, and that is a telling trait of a C rank mon.
The conversation regarding Cloyster is pretty much going in circles now. There's no issues with discussing it, but the next post with less substance than a hamburger from McDonalds is being deleted and infracted.
Sorry, didn't see this. To move things on, Corv should stay S. Just try and name a better hazard clearer in a meta screaming for one. It s BU set just makes it even harder to check.
 
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I just want to point this out for anyone that doesnt run mandibuzz and would agree to you. Bisharp in no way is a threat unless it flinches twice.
You actally bring up a good point. Didn’t realize his movepool didn’t have anwsers to Buzz. No stone edge, low kick’s neutral damage won’t cut it, and reliance on double flinch is not the way to go fosho. Still feel that buzz has a rough time with popular trends tho. But you are right that my point on Bisharp is not as much of a factor as I thought. Thanks for pointing that out.
 
Just echoing the notion that Aegislash should be A+. The incredible movepool and wide variety of viable sets makes it an extremely versatile mon that basically has no one true counter, at least until you figure out what its set actually is. Mandibuzz, one of its most common switch-ins, might just end up getting destroyed by Head Smash trying to switch into a specs Shadow Ball, for example. It's really hard to know what it's gonna do just from team preview alone. Pay no attention to my profile pic btw, this is my completely neutral, unbiased opinion.
 

Jordy

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to B or lower
Rotom-W right now lacks a defined niche. It can surprise Pokemon like Seismitoad with its Substitute + Nasty Plot set, but Rotom-C is still generally better in this regard. I find Rotom-W hard to justify and kind of annoying to use because using it means you can't use either Rotom-H or Rotom-C. I think that A- massively oversells what this Pokemon is capable of.
 
to B or lower
Rotom-W right now lacks a defined niche. It can surprise Pokemon like Seismitoad with its Substitute + Nasty Plot set, but Rotom-C is still generally better in this regard. I find Rotom-W hard to justify and kind of annoying to use because using it means you can't use either Rotom-H or Rotom-C. I think that A- massively oversells what this Pokemon is capable of.
I actually feel rotom-w is better than his green form as a sub np user . Water is better typing than grass by far , his sub isn't killed by weak uturn user ( with 60def ev physdef corv never break the sub with bodypress and wash resist BB , got an OK roll to live mandi knock ) , thanks to his typing somewhat beat the everywhere Cinderace running around which Cut doesn't , also not weak to rotom-h cloyster gengar .

Wash Dpulse is able to OHKO Dpult on the switch / after a para (which is a huge feat , the gen8 lando rotom-cut cannot touch ) also better against aegi , ferro needs power whip , Cut grass coverage is better against WW hippo and stockpile Gastro or for immediate firepower like the heat version , little bonus Discharge Dpulse paraflinch combo steals games

Few downside , Cut handle exca and ttar but come on you got Duggy and body press Corv , those two aren't a threat by any means .

In short I disagree with the drop (B+ might be fine tho) ;

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 92 SpA / 168 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Discharge
- Dark Pulse
- Nasty Plot

This is the spread I'm running lately , with Wish sylveon you got a reliable "offensive" check to Cinderace , the creep is for >75 but actually it wasn't the main reason , 244 outspeed paralysed scarf hydreigon so why not go to the 250 benchmark

I usually don't save replays playing on alt but still got some :

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1042160461
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1040942418
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1040398619
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1040385929
 
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Jaajgko

I will disband the soccer club
is a Tiering Contributor
:Hydreigon: A -> A+
This mon can run Specs / LO Nasty Plot / Sub NP / Scarf, the firts three are the strongest in terms of breaking power and do well against any type of team thanks to Hydreigon's amazing speed and have slightly different counter play which makes them hard to switch into before having scouted the set. For example you switch into your Mandibuzz expecting Sub NP, Scarf or Specs but it's actually LO and it bops you with a +2 Draco, you go into your SpD Clef and bop specs Flash Cannon does over 50. On top of that, it brings a lot of utility to teams with its many resistances which allow it (especially the Scarf set) to switch into all Rotom forms, bulky grounds and can pivot into Shadow Balls, Dark Pulses, Scarf Fishious Rend with Scarf sets etc. The Scarf set is the least threatening one but also the one that brings the most defensive utility, while also pivoting fantastically on Fairy types with U-Turn and being the fastest scarf user in the tier, it can even run Modest since Rotom doesn't do much anw and often not even opt for max speed themselves.
 
to B or lower
Rotom-W right now lacks a defined niche. It can surprise Pokemon like Seismitoad with its Substitute + Nasty Plot set, but Rotom-C is still generally better in this regard. I find Rotom-W hard to justify and kind of annoying to use because using it means you can't use either Rotom-H or Rotom-C. I think that A- massively oversells what this Pokemon is capable of.
id argue that rotom is C- tier. it definitely can be used and will always be annoying but all the changes in the tier have been terrible for it. it's not outclassed but just been victim to the methane changes
 
id argue that rotom is C- tier. it definitely can be used and will always be annoying but all the changes in the tier have been terrible for it. it's not outclassed but just been victim to the methane changes
You're my guy and I love the teams you build but man holy fuck, it legitimately hurts my eyes to see you either severely underrate or overrate some Pokemon. For example your Haxorus post, looking at the initial rankings I do believe Haxorus is a threat but nomming it all the way to B+ is complete blasphemy. Haxorus doesn't pose at least a bit of consistency as higher ranked Pokemon do. It's a threat yes, but there will also be a load of matches where it wouldn't be able to do much. Onto Rotom-W, I can't help but think that you mentioning Rotom-Wash and C- in the same sentence as nothing but a really terrible joke. Yeah common meta trends such as Seismitoad, Hydreigon, etc. may hinder Rotom-Wash from being as good as it once was and as consistent as Rotom-C or Rotom-H, but putting it at the very bottom of the viability rankings along with other proven mediocre Pokemon such as Quagsire, Flygon, and Copperajah is laughable.
 
You're my guy and I love the teams you build but man holy fuck, it legitimately hurts my eyes to see you either severely underrate or overrate some Pokemon. For example your Haxorus post, looking at the initial rankings I do believe Haxorus is a threat but nomming it all the way to B+ is complete blasphemy. Haxorus doesn't pose at least a bit of consistency as higher ranked Pokemon do. It's a threat yes, but there will also be a load of matches where it wouldn't be able to do much. Onto Rotom-W, I can't help but think that you mentioning Rotom-Wash and C- in the same sentence as nothing but a really terrible joke. Yeah common meta trends such as Seismitoad, Hydreigon, etc. may hinder Rotom-Wash from being as good as it once was and as consistent as Rotom-C or Rotom-H, but putting it at the very bottom of the viability rankings along with other proven mediocre Pokemon such as Quagsire, Flygon, and Copperajah is laughable.
Haxorus
lol youre forgetting that I legit use Haxorus. it is extremely consistent actually. There has only been 1-2 matches where it hasn't done anything and that was actually my fault. I have a lot of replays that support this.

Rotom - W
It may seem extreme but that's how much the meta is bad for it. Rotom has become nothing more than a minor nuisance. Quag sire and flygon have been a lot better than it this generation actually, by a pretty good margin. that's just been my observation, if anyone has any replays of rotom w doing work lmk. bc I have replays fo flygon, haxorus, and hydreigon doing Mad work and rotom w being garbage. It may seem laughable but any change that goes against your previous notions are going to seem shocking.
 
Haxorus
lol youre forgetting that I legit use Haxorus. it is extremely consistent actually. There has only been 1-2 matches where it hasn't done anything and that was actually my fault. I have a lot of replays that support this.

Rotom - W
It may seem extreme but that's how much the meta is bad for it. Rotom has become nothing more than a minor nuisance. Quag sire and flygon have been a lot better than it this generation actually, by a pretty good margin. that's just been my observation, if anyone has any replays of rotom w doing work lmk. bc I have replays fo flygon, haxorus, and hydreigon doing Mad work and rotom w being garbage. It may seem laughable but any change that goes against your previous notions are going to seem shocking.
There are replays of Rotom-W putting in hella work a few posts up. I was actually pretty impressed by its ability to set up on would be counter Seismitoad. As far as the Haxorus claims go, show us the replays. I'm actually curious because its movepool is quite impressive and it avoids the quadruple Ice weakness that the Dragon sweepers of yesteryear had to contend with.
 
There are replays of Rotom-W putting in hella work a few posts up. I was actually pretty impressed by its ability to set up on would be counter Seismitoad. As far as the Haxorus claims go, show us the replays. I'm actually curious because its movepool is quite impressive and it avoids the quadruple Ice weakness that the Dragon sweepers of yesteryear had to contend with.
For rotom keep in mind that I rated it pretty low last generation, so I’m pretty consistent with my disdain for it; idk why yall cant see it. also haxorus is ranked pretty high in the VR so like I’m actually extremely consistent here, yall are just resistant to change and thus that compounds on itself and makes hegemony.

Anyway for replays... this goes for Terrakion. too
high ranked battle
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1040787151-ga2j75bzluqf5jlrjriiwmy5tnzl9hlpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1041840642
it did exactly what it needed to do for me to sweep late game
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1040313608
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1040846306
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1040568169
I know someones gonna say some shit about why I just don't use escadrille for mb eq and this is why
the sweeps never stop
 
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There are replays of Rotom-W putting in hella work a few posts up. I was actually pretty impressed by its ability to set up on would be counter Seismitoad. As far as the Haxorus claims go, show us the replays. I'm actually curious because its movepool is quite impressive and it avoids the quadruple Ice weakness that the Dragon sweepers of yesteryear had to contend with.
As for my take on Rotom-W:
Replay 1: Rotom's sole contribution to this battle is to 1v1 a Cloyster that tried to set up on it. We've already established that's bad.
Replay 2: Sets up on a Clefable that protected on the switch and protected again. The opposing Ferro prefers to set rocks and switch out rather than Power Whip. 1v1s a Hydreigon, and has to paralyze and get a Draco Meteor miss to win. Switches out afterwards.
Replay 3: Rather than dealing with the Rotom, Kommo-O tries to sub on it and then Drain Punches. If he goes for Drain Punch from the go he could win that. Or if he carries a sound move. Or if he doesn't get paralyzed. Rotom then becomes setup bait for Swords Dance Ageislash as his player tries to Wish pass him back into the game, and can only deal 40% with Dark Pulse before being cleanly OHKOed. Devastation is prevented by the opponent chickening out of a 'slash mirror next turn.
Replay 4: I think any mon can set up on a toad that clicks protect against a mon that only 3HKOs after boosting it it runs a certain coverage move when it's unboosted then later wastes a turn trying to rock while rocks are up.
There's only room for 1 Rotom in OU. The fact that Rotom set doesn't even run Hydro Pump just sums it up really. Rotom-H provides much, much more in the current meta, and running Rotom-W means not running Rotom-H.
As for Haxorus, I always thought pure Dragon was a better typing than Dragon-Flying etc. Support it to go about B/B+.
 
Rotom-Wash Is definitely the "worst" of the viable rotoms right now so i think putting it in B/B+ rank is a nom i can get behind. You have rotom-mow who shreds all the bulky water+corv cores and rotom-H which does the same thing aside from having issues with seis/gastro but it can also annoy clefable as a bonus. Meanwhile you have rotom-wash who straight up loses to sies/gastro and has to run somthing like what shadow ball/dark pulse in order to even damage them? Rotom-W's biggest issue is that because its stab options are not grass+electric or fire+electric is suffers a fair amount since its completely stopped cold by certain mons. Even rotom-H can blow past seismitoad since +2 overheat dents seismitoad a fair amount.

Rotom-Wash is fine but its probably the worst of the 3 right now. That being said, saying rotom-wash should drop to C rank is kind of silly. C rank is basically for the niche stuff that has a very small niche in the current meta. Rotom-wash is still very much usable however, It certainly does not fall into the same category as flygon of all things. B rank is mostly for stuff that are very much viable in the current metagame but require a fair amount of team support or simply just don't preform as well as they should in the current meta. Id say rotom-W fits into the latter and thus B/B+ rank is much more fair.
 

Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life
Definitely agree with the noms for Rotom-Wash to drop to B/B+. The meta does not benefit it nearly as much as it does for Heattom and Mowtom with all of the mons like Seismitoad being ran that completely wall Washtom and ruin it’s day. NP Wash is also a complete joke of a set when Mow can literally break the same cores without having to run crappy ass Dark Pulse that doesn’t even do good damage even at +2. Like seriously, you “lure” Dragapult even though it just outspeeds and beats you through Sub with a Specs Draco? Mowtom not only beats Toad without having to run Sub, it can actually run its dual STABs while having another move slot open for something useful like TWave or Wisp. While Wash isn’t nearly as bad as C rank as some memes have thought it to be, it definitely has lost some of its usefulness in this meta and should drop as a result.
 
I agree with Rotom-W being worse than Rotom-M right now, I would suggest either moving it down a couple ranks or moving Rotom-Mow up to A- (or a combination of both) because jesus christ this thing is so potent and anti-meta right now, a lot of teams have no real way of dealing with it and it sets up easily against really common stuff like Ferro and Pex.
 
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:Rotom-Wash: A- -> B

I support the nom to drop Rotom-W to B. The omnipresent toad makes the laundry machine’s job difficult. Realistically if you’re running Rotom for its NP, Wash would never be considered for that role in my minds eye. The offensive attributes of Heat (and to a lesser degree Mow) are more complimentery to NP sets.

Rotom-W makes more sense running its old school bulky scarf pivot sets with the intention of disrupting opposing teams with T-wave, trick, and keeping momentum with Volt switch. And even that set cannot really start to strut its stuff until Siesmitoad is ko’d.

B rank is a practical spot for Rotom-W to occupy until certain trends change. He still has some tricks, but they require the right team. If you want Rotom for power, stick with Heat or Mow. If you want em for support/disruption, stick with scarf pivot Wash which requires team support.
 

Mannat

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is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

I think this thread's getting a bit out of hand with washing machine hate here. Washtoms still a damn good scarfer w trickwisp and pumps a great stab move for a scarfer bc ur not instantly forced out once you use it unlike overheat and leaf storm + its resistances give it a nice spot on a lot of teams bc it can offensively check both waters and fires which neither of heat/mow can do well. Sure, it's not the best rotom form anymore nor is it super super splashable, but throwing it down 3 subranks is pretty ridiculous. There's also been some neat NP hex sets and such being used to get around the issues that come w having pump as your main stab in this meta, and those are a nice way of using its defensive typing while bypassing some of the issues it has w its offensive typing. It shouldn't drop any lower than B+ at most and noms putting it in B and below are absolutely ridiculous.

sidenote: send mowtom up to A- or A rank that things good as fuck lol
 
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