(Finch is it bad form to copy my post from Usage Stats? I actually meant to post it here.)
Can I nominate a mon for ranking? Because I believe Salazzle is an OU contender. Honestly, I think it’s more viable than any of the C ranked mons, and even many of the B ranked mons. It supports its teammates by pressuring Fairies and poisoning walls like no body else can, including Hazers like Toxapex and Vaporeon, and steel types like Corviknight, Aegislash and Ferrothorn. Truly, getting getting your opponent’s Hazer (or Quagsire) Toxic puts them in a nasty spot if you’re pairing Salazzle with a bulky win con like Bulk Up Corviknight, DD Renuclius or Curse Snorlax, as the cannot stay in and Haze you indefinitely while you accumulate boosts.
——————-
So for a while I’ve been trying to find mons that get momentum against Clefable and Sylveon, two of the most annoying users of Wish+Protect. I find Rotom-H lacking in terms of staying power and mons like Centiscortch and Flareon, while interesting, are pretty niche, and easy to take advantage of.
You might be thinking a sweepy Nasty Plot set would work to break balance teams, but come on. While Salazzle has an undeniably great 117 speed stat and a very respectable 111 sp attack stat. A set like that can’t do much work in a meta full of scarfers, Dragapult, Dugtrio, Vaporeon, Seismatoad and Toxapex.
However, I’ve developed a set that is Old School Sub+Toxic Gliscor levels of annoying.
Seriously.
The set:
Salazzle (F) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Corrosion
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Substitute
- Disable
- Toxic
This mon is a total menace to teams unprepared to deal with it.
Why no fire move you ask? Well it needs Sludge Wave to offensively pressure the fairies, especially Clefable (immune to Toxic) and Hatterene (which has Magic Bounce), and Prankster Taunt Grimmsnarl. Thankfully, with Corrosion Toxic, you can still punish Steel and Poison switch ins, which is actually the point.
It works like this:
Get it in on a fairy or something passive like Ferrothorn or Toxapex or even Vaporeon or Mandibuzz and throw up a sub. Most Clefables or Sylveons will go for Protect to scout you, so typically this sub is free. Since Sallazle 4x resists Moonblast and Hyper Voice, pressure the fairies out with Sludge Wave. Once they’re pushed out, start using Toxic. And with Corrosion, you can poison more obvious solutions like Corviknight or Toxapex.
(Note: while Salazzle can handedly take Moonblast or Mystic Fire, the Sp Attack drops remove its ability to 2HKO beefy Clefable and Sylveon, so try to avoid hard switches, if possible.)
Most defensive mons only have one attacking move, so when you’re in a situation against say Thunderbolt Clefable, or Toxapex or Vaporeon using Scald, or Corviknight using Brave Bird, Excadrill using EQ etc, use Disable after they break your sub and throw it up again. Then watch the player at a loss of what to do as their defensive or offensive mon slowly bleeds to death. Heh, even if Dugtrio gets in, if you’re behind a Sub, anticipate a faster EQ incoming, just use Disable and then start hitting them with Sludge Wave. Lulz.
What if they bring in a choice user, like Scarf Gengar or Hydregoin or Dracovish? Disable as they hit you and then laugh as they either have to Struggle or switch out while you throw up another sub.
(Side note: Protect+Sub let’s you Toxic stall more efficiently while preserving health, but leaves you exposed when the opposition switches. The Sub also protects Salazzle from the aforementioned Moonblast/Mystic Fire Sp Atk drops that lets it apply pressure on the Fairies. Matter of opinion, I prefer Sub+Disable, but Protect is an option.
Another alternative: Run Modest nature. This lets you hit a bit harder with SW while losing a bit of speed. You no longer outspeed unscarfed Gengar, but since a lot of them are scarfed anyway, this isn’t so bad)
————-
Now there is counter play to Salazzle of course. Let’s go through them!
Infiltrator Dragapult, who is naturally faster and can bypass the sub and sound move users like Boomburst Kommo-O, Hyper Voice Indedee and Heliolisk, and Toxitricity (but not Hyper Voice Sylveon or Bug Buzz users, again, 4x resists). Still. These guys can’t get in without saking something or doing a slow pivot without taking a Toxic to the face. If they do get in, remember to switch out to a counter, even when your sub is up.
Seismatoad, Gastrodon and Quagsire who have two STABs that can break the sub, but still eats a Toxic. Since Toad lacks recovery, this pretty much invalidates it as a counter to your other mons, and Gastro and Quag are pressured by their status.
Volt Switchers, like the Rotoms, taking out the Sub (not U-Turn though, we still have that handy 4x resist to Bug). If they aren’t scarfed, they’re still eating a SW or a Toxic. But! This is exactly why Salazzle is a great partner for Bulk Up Corviknight. Rotom can only take on SW before it can no longer switch in, on once that happens, Corvi is usually in a good spot to win the game, with its main counter dead or weakened.
Dugtrio, if our sub is down, outspeeds and murders you, obviously.
Aromatherapy? Kinda. Since most of these users are Fairy or Grass types, they can’t switch in to Salazzle to heal its mates, because of that strong SW threat.
You might think your multi-hit attackers like Cloyster or the rare Cincinno would work to force Salazzle out but again, they can’t get in without getting hit by Toxic, or otherwise, dying to SW. Salazzle outspeeds them both.
Renuclius, Sigilpyph and Xatu who are immune to Toxic damage, can set up with Calm Mind or heal off SW damage, and threaten us with Psychic stab or coverage moves. But again, they’re all slower than Salazzle so again, Disable that Psychic STAB, so if they don’t have coverage moves, again, they’re in for a hard time.
And then the best actual counters:
Rest users like Snorlax and Centiscortch, who tank SW with ease and don’t care about Toxic, at all. These are the true counters who render Salazzle useless.
And finally, speed modifying strats like Sticky Web, Trick Room and Tailwind, which ruin Salazzle’s great 117 speed tier.
And as another thing to note, Salazzle is prone to letting the opposition set up hazards on it, so always bring a Defogger or Spinner if you don’t want to get overwhelmed by those.
——————
To see all this in practice: here’s a game of Salazzle doing some work, against Dragapult Excadrill and Cloyster, all viable/would be checks, and putting DD Renuclius in a position to win the game.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1060127902
Can I nominate a mon for ranking? Because I believe Salazzle is an OU contender. Honestly, I think it’s more viable than any of the C ranked mons, and even many of the B ranked mons. It supports its teammates by pressuring Fairies and poisoning walls like no body else can, including Hazers like Toxapex and Vaporeon, and steel types like Corviknight, Aegislash and Ferrothorn. Truly, getting getting your opponent’s Hazer (or Quagsire) Toxic puts them in a nasty spot if you’re pairing Salazzle with a bulky win con like Bulk Up Corviknight, DD Renuclius or Curse Snorlax, as the cannot stay in and Haze you indefinitely while you accumulate boosts.
——————-
So for a while I’ve been trying to find mons that get momentum against Clefable and Sylveon, two of the most annoying users of Wish+Protect. I find Rotom-H lacking in terms of staying power and mons like Centiscortch and Flareon, while interesting, are pretty niche, and easy to take advantage of.
You might be thinking a sweepy Nasty Plot set would work to break balance teams, but come on. While Salazzle has an undeniably great 117 speed stat and a very respectable 111 sp attack stat. A set like that can’t do much work in a meta full of scarfers, Dragapult, Dugtrio, Vaporeon, Seismatoad and Toxapex.
However, I’ve developed a set that is Old School Sub+Toxic Gliscor levels of annoying.
Seriously.
The set:
Salazzle (F) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Corrosion
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Substitute
- Disable
- Toxic
This mon is a total menace to teams unprepared to deal with it.
Why no fire move you ask? Well it needs Sludge Wave to offensively pressure the fairies, especially Clefable (immune to Toxic) and Hatterene (which has Magic Bounce), and Prankster Taunt Grimmsnarl. Thankfully, with Corrosion Toxic, you can still punish Steel and Poison switch ins, which is actually the point.
It works like this:
Get it in on a fairy or something passive like Ferrothorn or Toxapex or even Vaporeon or Mandibuzz and throw up a sub. Most Clefables or Sylveons will go for Protect to scout you, so typically this sub is free. Since Sallazle 4x resists Moonblast and Hyper Voice, pressure the fairies out with Sludge Wave. Once they’re pushed out, start using Toxic. And with Corrosion, you can poison more obvious solutions like Corviknight or Toxapex.
(Note: while Salazzle can handedly take Moonblast or Mystic Fire, the Sp Attack drops remove its ability to 2HKO beefy Clefable and Sylveon, so try to avoid hard switches, if possible.)
Most defensive mons only have one attacking move, so when you’re in a situation against say Thunderbolt Clefable, or Toxapex or Vaporeon using Scald, or Corviknight using Brave Bird, Excadrill using EQ etc, use Disable after they break your sub and throw it up again. Then watch the player at a loss of what to do as their defensive or offensive mon slowly bleeds to death. Heh, even if Dugtrio gets in, if you’re behind a Sub, anticipate a faster EQ incoming, just use Disable and then start hitting them with Sludge Wave. Lulz.
What if they bring in a choice user, like Scarf Gengar or Hydregoin or Dracovish? Disable as they hit you and then laugh as they either have to Struggle or switch out while you throw up another sub.
(Side note: Protect+Sub let’s you Toxic stall more efficiently while preserving health, but leaves you exposed when the opposition switches. The Sub also protects Salazzle from the aforementioned Moonblast/Mystic Fire Sp Atk drops that lets it apply pressure on the Fairies. Matter of opinion, I prefer Sub+Disable, but Protect is an option.
Another alternative: Run Modest nature. This lets you hit a bit harder with SW while losing a bit of speed. You no longer outspeed unscarfed Gengar, but since a lot of them are scarfed anyway, this isn’t so bad)
————-
Now there is counter play to Salazzle of course. Let’s go through them!
Infiltrator Dragapult, who is naturally faster and can bypass the sub and sound move users like Boomburst Kommo-O, Hyper Voice Indedee and Heliolisk, and Toxitricity (but not Hyper Voice Sylveon or Bug Buzz users, again, 4x resists). Still. These guys can’t get in without saking something or doing a slow pivot without taking a Toxic to the face. If they do get in, remember to switch out to a counter, even when your sub is up.
Seismatoad, Gastrodon and Quagsire who have two STABs that can break the sub, but still eats a Toxic. Since Toad lacks recovery, this pretty much invalidates it as a counter to your other mons, and Gastro and Quag are pressured by their status.
Volt Switchers, like the Rotoms, taking out the Sub (not U-Turn though, we still have that handy 4x resist to Bug). If they aren’t scarfed, they’re still eating a SW or a Toxic. But! This is exactly why Salazzle is a great partner for Bulk Up Corviknight. Rotom can only take on SW before it can no longer switch in, on once that happens, Corvi is usually in a good spot to win the game, with its main counter dead or weakened.
Dugtrio, if our sub is down, outspeeds and murders you, obviously.
Aromatherapy? Kinda. Since most of these users are Fairy or Grass types, they can’t switch in to Salazzle to heal its mates, because of that strong SW threat.
You might think your multi-hit attackers like Cloyster or the rare Cincinno would work to force Salazzle out but again, they can’t get in without getting hit by Toxic, or otherwise, dying to SW. Salazzle outspeeds them both.
Renuclius, Sigilpyph and Xatu who are immune to Toxic damage, can set up with Calm Mind or heal off SW damage, and threaten us with Psychic stab or coverage moves. But again, they’re all slower than Salazzle so again, Disable that Psychic STAB, so if they don’t have coverage moves, again, they’re in for a hard time.
And then the best actual counters:
Rest users like Snorlax and Centiscortch, who tank SW with ease and don’t care about Toxic, at all. These are the true counters who render Salazzle useless.
And finally, speed modifying strats like Sticky Web, Trick Room and Tailwind, which ruin Salazzle’s great 117 speed tier.
And as another thing to note, Salazzle is prone to letting the opposition set up hazards on it, so always bring a Defogger or Spinner if you don’t want to get overwhelmed by those.
——————
To see all this in practice: here’s a game of Salazzle doing some work, against Dragapult Excadrill and Cloyster, all viable/would be checks, and putting DD Renuclius in a position to win the game.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1060127902
Last edited:
