Resource SS PU Viability Rankings [pre-October]

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Dartrix C+

Was looking for knock off users on the Smogon Dex a few days ago and accidentally stumbled on this and dabbled with it. I tried a Physically defensive set and this thing just bodies Dubwool / Fighters.

You can use a special defensive set and it surprisingly tanks hits from Manectric / Raichu etc and hits pretty darn hard with Leaf Blade.

Defog is great, has instant recovery and t spikes / spikes immunity is just plain awesome.​
 

TTK

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Hey everyone! Just want to address the D rank pokemon on the VR and state my opinions on whether some should stay C- or some should be unranked. We don't have a lot to go through so this will not be a long post. I can understand the council's stance on D rank and see no problem with nuking it altogether tbh. Do other tiers even have a D rank (correct me if I'm mistaken) but last time I checked any tier's viability rankings, D rank didn't exist, there isn't really a point to it. These mons are on the edge of unviability and as stated above, the difference between C- and D is p small. Without further ado, let us begin.


Promote to C-: I think Charjabug has a decent enough niche for it not to be unranked. Other than Shuckle, Charjabug is probably our next best Sticky Web user and is probably the reason why it got a rank in the first place. What Charjabug offers is slow pivoting with Volt Switch, which Shuckle lacks, and good physical bulk, being a good fighting resist and giving momentum for the types of teams that use Sticky Web, offence based teams. Definitely a mon I wouldn't unrank.

Unrank: Drilbur is a pretty bad spinner, no reason to use this mon at all in the current meta when Hitmontop and Mr. Rime are everywhere. Offers zero defensive utility to a team because of its non-existent bulk and is just outclassed as a spinner. The only sets I would consider running is choiced but even then, that's not worth a rank for this terrible mon.

Unrank: I have no clue why certain people love this mon and I was contemplating whether this mon deserved a rank but it doesn't do anything that the other ghosts don't do already. Nice typing but no good bulk really, easy Pawniard bait, it attempts to be a fighting check but is just very reliant on its new tool Strength Sap in order to not get beat down by every fighting running Dark coverage. Unless anyone has something good to say about this mon, this is an easy unrank.

Promote to C-?: I've been told Honedge is a good Dubwool check because you bypass defence boosts with Sacred Sword but you still don't do any damage because of Fluffy so do you just PP stall it or you just force it out, which isn't that bad I suppose. Still struggles in a meta with Pawniard everywhere but unlike Frillish, has more useful resistances, being able to handle stuff like Psychicvally (unless Flamethrower) and its immunity to Toxic Spikes is always appreciated

Promote to C-: If Hattrem was still here, I would've said unrank honestly but in that situation, no one would've wanted to unrank it anyway but now that Hattrem is NU, there'll be no way this thing gets unranked. Its unique niche of Magic Bounce (no one is using Hatenna lul) + Teleport for slow pivoting plus actual recovery that Hattrem lacked is decent enough. Natu is not a good mon, but we can't unrank it.

Unrank: Had to think a decent amount about this one but I ultimately came to the conclusion that this should be unranked. Our rocker pool is somewhat scarce but its main competition, Palpitoad, is just better in every way. I will admit EdgeQuake STAB is nice to have but I don't think Pupitar does enough in this meta to warrant ranking it.

Unrank: Unlike Ninjask, its banworthy brother, Shedinja is slow, even more frail and just absolutely useless. What niche does this mon have? Heavy Duty Boots is a godsend sure, no longer weak to rocks or any form of Spikes and it does appreciate the lack of sand and hail but more often than not, you have something on your team that just either walls this or just outspeeds and has coverage to beat it. If you're at a detriment running a certain pokemon, why should it ever be on the viability rankings? Shedinja is far from viable.

Unrank: I don't know if this was representative of an old meta but Togetic actually exists, is better than this in most ways and has better bulk. The only thing this has over Togetic is its immunity to Taunt but not that many Taunt mons in the first place.

Promote to C-: Torracat is actually pretty cool. Intimidate + Will-o-wisp handles most physical attackers in the tier, good pivoting with Parting Shot and checks Pawniard and Gourgeist. It has a respectable niche. Defensive is probably your best bet because offensive does not appreciate the surge in Mareanie usage.

Unrank: Why is this ranked again? Pressure PP stall? That set is awful and and outside of that set, Wailord is just outclassed by every Water type in the tier. Another easy unrank.


Thanks for reading guys. I realised halfway through this post "Does this belong in the Viability rankings thread?" but I just wanted to discuss the state of D rank, which was addressed in this thread but someone let me know lol.
 

gum

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Unrank: I have no clue why certain people love this mon and I was contemplating whether this mon deserved a rank but it doesn't do anything that the other ghosts don't do already. Nice typing but no good bulk really, easy Pawniard bait, it attempts to be a fighting check but is just very reliant on its new tool Strength Sap in order to not get beat down by every fighting running Dark coverage. Unless anyone has something good to say about this mon, this is an easy unrank.
this shouldnt get unranked. it offers a lot defensively, and yeah it's not the best switchin to what it's supposed to beat, but it just acts as a reliable answer to so much relevant stuff like dubwool, falinks (u will-o and then spam recover / hex), and even non-crunch basculin. saying it's an "easy Pawniard bait" is very wrong - it hates being burned. also btw recover > ssap because otherwise u lose to falinks and end up giving pawniard a boost, among other things that make strength sap not that reliable on this mon. taunt is also pretty nice and cursed body can do stuff in a clutch. yeah, it suffers from competition and can be kinda hard justifying using sometimes but it's definitely worthy of being ranked.

Promote to C-?: I've been told Honedge is a good Dubwool check because you bypass defence boosts with Sacred Sword but you still don't do any damage because of Fluffy so do you just PP stall it or you just force it out, which isn't that bad I suppose. Still struggles in a meta with Pawniard everywhere but unlike Frillish, has more useful resistances, being able to handle stuff like Psychicvally (unless Flamethrower) and its immunity to Toxic Spikes is always appreciated
i agree with this nom but i really dont agree with it being a bad dubwool check, with swords dance you dont struggle to get past it while actually being pretty threatening offensively, with stab shadow sneak allowing it to rid of stuff that would try to revenge kill you. i also don't think pawniard is that much of an issue when sacred sword ohkoes, which means pawniard cant switch in. also you win the 1v1, but i wouldnt stay in unless you like, really need pawniard gone. cute mon i could see rising higher after we know what happens with dubwool.

--

otherwise i agree with most of the noms, although like im on the fence about shedinja - it can still do stuff in certain games (like wall a non-shadow ball mr. rime!!!) but what really sucks for it right now is the abundance of super effective coverage being ran right now with flame silvallies for example.
 
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Cheezy

up on melancholy hill
is a Top Tiering Contributor
Again, like I said in my first post on this VR I am not fully experienced with this meta yet so feel free to disagree or correct me :)


Nominating Drakloak to B

I'm going to take a in-depth look at what Drakloak can check and counter, the sets it uses, and the utility/offensive pressure it brings you your team.

Set 1

Drakloak @ Eviolite/Spell Tag
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- U-turn/Fire Blast

This is my favourite set to use for Drakloak as of now due to the sheer amount of Pokemon this set can check. Draco and Hex are your primary STAB, WoW for crippling your opponent, U-Turn for a fast pivot, and Fire Blast is coverage for Ice(Glaceon), Grass(Shiinotic), and Steel Types(Klang). It does however have an unfortunate lack of reliable recovery. Due to the abundance of Fighting Types, Psychic Types, and Dubwool in the tier Drakloak can check most of them.

252 SpA Drakloak Hex (130 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Falinks: 196-232 (72.3 - 85.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and burn damage
252 SpA Drakloak Hex (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Grapploct: 157-186 (43.1 - 51%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and burn damage
252 SpA Drakloak Hex (130 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Gothitelle: 162-192 (47 - 55.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and burn damage
252 SpA Drakloak Hex (130 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Musharna: 182-216 (41.7 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and burn damage


Set 2

Drakloak @ Eviolite/Lum Berry
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Phantom Force
- Psychic Fangs/Fire Blast

This is in my opinion a worse set due to the amount of priority in the tier as well as a bulky Ghosts and lack of a good physical move pool, but it still function okay as a setup-sweeper. DD is self-explanatory, Outrage is it's most usable Dragon STAB, Phantom Force again is it's most usable Ghost STAB, and Psychic Fangs is for Fighting Types, or you can run Fire Blast for Klang, Mawile, Dubwool, etc. This Pokemon brings no support but it your opponent does have to predict your set and switch into a answer that might win against one set but lose to the one you're actually using.

+1 252+ Atk Drakloak Psychic Fangs vs. 204 HP / 52 Def Throh: 238-280 (55 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Drakloak Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Stonjourner: 180-213 (52.7 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Drakloak Phantom Force vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Glaceon: 160-190 (59 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


Set 3

Drakloak @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Shadow Ball
- Fire Blast
- U-turn/Thunderbolt

This is the most used set and I can definitely see why. Draco+Shadow Ball STAB is extremely good paired with Fire Blast or Thunderbolt. U-Turn helps gain momentum. This set hits very hard and has almost no switch-ins besides SPDef walls not weak to any of these moves. It can also take care of many threats in the top ranks.

252 SpA Choice Specs Drakloak Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Beheeyem: 252-296 (71.1 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Drakloak Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Glaceon: 228-270 (84.1 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Drakloak Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mawile: 354-418 (116.4 - 137.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Drakloak Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Stonjourner: 372-438 (109 - 128.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
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Akir

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VR Update #2:

Mr Rime to S
Gourgeist-Super A to A+
Throh S to A+
Falinks to A+
Dubwool to A+
Glaceon A+ to A
Manectric A- to A
Stonjourner A+ to A
Silvally Electric B to A
Silvally Bug B to A
Silvally Psychic B to A
Raichu A- to A
Crustle to A
Fraxure B+ to A-
Lapras A+ to A-
Mareanie B to A-
Ludicolo A to A-
Hitmontop to A-
Thievul B to A-
Pincurchin B+ to A-
Klang B to A-
Gloom B to B+
Pyukumuku C+ to B+
Drakloak B- to B+
Palpitoad B to B+
Gourgeist Normal B- to B
Linoone Galar C+ to B
Carkol B+ to B
Persian B+ to B
Meowstic F C to B-
Togetic C+ to B-
Vespiquen C+ to B-
Seaking C+ to B-
Bellossom B to B-
Gastly C- to C+
Dusclops C- to C+
Natu D to C
Dusknoir C- to C
Whiscash to C-
Lampent from UR to C-
Honedge D to C-
Maractus C to C-
Vulpix Alola C+ to UR
Ivysaur C to UR


So due to the sheer size of this shift, I won't touch on all of them. I will touch on the placements of the new drops though.
  • Mr Rime being S is not very surprising. It is very hard to go wrong with Mr Rime at the moment, as it is effective as both an offensive powerhouse and defensive support backbone. A good number of people still want Rime banned even, so putting Rime in the highest honor in the VR is more than justified.
  • Dubwool and Falinks both made A+ mainly due to the fact that, while they are both very good, they aren't on the same level as Rime in S. In fact, this heightened bar also brought Throh down from S. Dubwool could be argued very well to be the next S though thanks to how well it beats everything that isn't a ghost.
  • Crustle went to A for being its usual extremely reliable self. Working as either an excellent hazard setter or as a Shell Smash sweeper itself, Crustle finds good company in going into the same rank as all of the Silvallys.
  • Hitmontop hit the lowest at A- and it was very close. The council was split on either going A or A-, but ultimately Hitmontop does feel like the worst out of the bunch. Still a great mon, but its placement in A- places it on par with Mareanie and Mr Mime K and I think that is appropriate.

In other news, you will find that the council did opt to get rid of D rank, which I feel is justified by a few of the posts recently made talking about it. Without a D rank, many of the mons in D rank were put under much more effective scrutiny than before. Obviously the mons in D rank had to go somewhere, so here it is:

Torracat D to C
Shedinja D to C
Charjabug D to C-
Drilbur D to C-
Frillish D to UR
Spritzee D to UR
Wailord D to UR
Pupitar D to UR


Large updates like this take longer, so that was the delay. Here is the voting spreadsheet by the way. Now then, see you all next time!
 

Estarossa

moo?
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C&C Leader
:duosion: UR -> C/C-

Duosion @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Acid Armor
- Stored Power
- Recover

Duosion @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Future Sight
- Toxic
- Recover / Psychic
- Shadow Ball

Duosion can very effectively pull off two distinctive roles in PU currently, either as a fat win con that preys on the only Dark-type seeing any real usage outside of niche Thievul builds being Pawniard, which is pretty easy to wear down early-to-mid game for it, or a fantastic pivot into Pokemon like Mr Rime with a Regenerator set, with Future Sight support to make mons like Stonjourner / offensive Throh even harder to switch into.

Acid Armor sets in particular benefit massively from how good Toxic Spikes are right now, and its not particularly difficult to get set up opportunities with it when it easily sets up on stuff like Type-Null, Stonjourner, Dubwool, Roselia. They do require team support to deal with Pawniard, but can be extremely dangerous with the right team support, and don't suffer issue swith Toxic / Toxic Spikes unlike alternatives in Musharna.

Regenerator pivot sets are something i've generally been finding really nice lately, while they are no counter to NP ice beam variants of Mr Rime, they provide a great initial switch in, and a nice check to stuff like mane/raichu/rime/roselia, and still eat a +2 hit fairly well from rime. +2 252 SpA Mr. Rime Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Duosion: 171-202 (51.1 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. The main draw of this is just generally having a nice regenerator pivot with future sight, which it can rather reliably click often with its good bulk + regen, and really enables mons like Throh and Falinks.

Kickoff usage stats -

| 46 | Duosion | 2 | 2 | 2.27% | 100.00% | - Week 6
| 46 | Duosion | 3 | 2 | 2.50% | 66.67% | - Week 4

Kickoff and CPL replays -

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1119999070 - acid armor (kickoff vs piloswinesarado)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1120010137 - acid armor (kickoff vs piloswinesarado)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8pu-498884 - pivot (cpl vs banks)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1112241501-ec8raqzjvnjce3kzxwekdopokq6vq0lpw - pivot (kickoff vs zben)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1112245110-ls3696x7lwshuer3znb03fl9a1kfz01pw - pivot (kickoff vs zben)

------------------------------

:mudbray: UR -> C/C-

Mudbray @ Eviolite
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock / Roar
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Mudbray is another Pokemon i've had quite a lot of success with this generation. Nice bulk + stamina makes it a really nice general check to stuff like Stonjourner, non SD falinks, Smash Crustle, and matchup dependent on whether you can afford to throw your eviolite to do it, Mawile/pawniard, while being a rare electric type that can check Manectric, which we generally lack post groundvally rise. Its great attack stat also makes it really a lot less passive than other more defensive mons like this, and other grounds like palpitoad, since a lot of popular pokemon that don't resist it but would otherwise presure it like Roselia / Mr Rime really struggle to switch into it well at all.

I've personally have preferred Rest Talk sets on mudbray since it pairs super nicely with stamina, lets it much more reliably check stuff like Stonjourner and makes it a great status sponge from stuff like Null, though have also seen non rest talk sets used to success on more offensive teams, and more spdef sets to better deal with stuff like mane.

Replays of it doing stuff - (cpl replay in particular)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8pu-498884 - (cpl vs banks)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1112241501-ec8raqzjvnjce3kzxwekdopokq6vq0lpw - (kickoff vs zben)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1112245110-ls3696x7lwshuer3znb03fl9a1kfz01pw - (kickoff vs zben)
 

Cheezy

up on melancholy hill
is a Top Tiering Contributor
I was going to write a big post talking about why I think Galarian Rapidash and Golurk should both be S rank, but they got banned so now I have to talk about Meltan, Farfetch'd, Corsola, Stunfisk, and Galarian Mr Mime. Also yes, I'm going to use the April Fools sprites because they are amazing.

farfetchd.png
to C/C-
Farfetch'd could actually have a niche as an offensive flying type. It's move pool is great and banded Brave Bird doesn't have much switch-ins besides Mawile, Stonjourner, Silv-Electric, and Stunfisk. Banded First Impression also deals a decent amount of damage to Psychic, Dark, and Grass types. Boots SD could be good late game once all the Pokemon faster than it are gone. It can also check a plethora of Grass types in the tier. Knock Off is always a giant help for crippling Pokemon too.


meltan.png
to UR
ha ha meltan go trap

corsola.png
to UR
While it does have Rocks, recovery, Regenerator, and Scald, its defensive typing is absolutely horrible in a metagame where Grass, Fighting, Electric, and Ice types with Freeze Dry dominate the tier. It's bulk is also bad with 65/95/95 defenses.

stunfisk.png
to A-
Stunfisk has Rocks, a meh defensive typing, and much better bulk with 109/84/99. It's typing has a great resistance and immunity in Rock and Electric, but it can also be trampled by the amount of Ice and Grass types. Scald, Discharge, and Earth Power can cripple many mons with status as well as providing near perfect coverage only being walled by most Grass types in the tier and Vibrava and Palpitoad. A offensive Rocker set can also be run with LO allowing it to more effectively beat answers to it.

mrmime-galar.png
to A+
More speed but less defense and special attack is Galarian Mr Mime compared to Mr Rime. More speed is massive of course, but not having the same amount of bulk or power makes it not S rank for me. Specs sets are still extremely threatening and so is Scarf with a great support move pool too like Mr Rime. The set I've been using the most is NP with boots. +2 Ice Beam and Focus Blast covers almost all the mons in the tier and it out speeds Pokemon that Mr Rime cannot such as Basculin(although Banded Aqua Jet does a ton), Leafeon(which would always OHKO with a LO Knock), and all Silvally Forms especially Bug and Rock which would threaten with a super effective Multi Attack.
 
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ishtar

temper madness with an even extreme
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PU Leader
NOMS!

:hakamo-o: Hakamo-O C- to B- or B: Hakamo-O has been one of my favorite wallbreakers in the tier for a while with a set that I decided to come up with for the Kickoff tour.

Hakamo-o @ Eviolite
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Dragon Claw / Earthquake
- Substitute
- Swords Dance

Sub SD Hakamo-O distinguishes itself from other Dragon and Fighting-types in the tier for a multitude of reasons. Its defensive typing allows it to be a solid check to diverse Pokemon in the tier such as Gourgeist-Normal, Stonjourner, Manectric, Pawniard, Null, etc. Its ability to recover health while having a great defensive typing distinguishes from other setup sub mons such as Grapploct, Fraxure, Drakloak, Throh, but this isn’t the only thing that sets Haka apart from the aforementioned mons, as the follow calcs will show:

+2 252+ Atk Hakamo-o Dragon Claw vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Mareanie: 127-151 (41.9 - 49.8%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ Atk Hakamo-o Dragon Claw vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mareanie: 192-226 (63.3 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ Atk Hakamo-o Dragon Claw vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Gourgeist: 169-199 (58.4 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ Atk Hakamo-o Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Beheeyem: 181-214 (51.1 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ Atk Hakamo-o Drain Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mawile: 150-177 (49.5 - 58.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ Atk Hakamo-o Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Silvally-Bug: 208-246 (62.8 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ Atk Hakamo-o Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mr. Rime: 237-279 (65.1 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Hakamo-o Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Dusclops: 159-187 (55.9 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ Atk Hakamo-o Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mr. Mime: 236-278 (106.7 - 125.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Thanks to SD and Drain Punch, Hakamo-O is able to Sub SD on a multitude of different usual Fighting-type counters and checks, able to defeat most of them after simply having Stealth Rocks up or having useful Knock Off support on Pokemon such as Mareanie. If you don’t believe me, peep these epic replays:


I think this is an incredibly slept on mon that is able to function really well even in MUs in which its unable to sweep teams, since its incredibly defensive typing as well as recovery allows it to continuously check relevant meta Pokemon while giving it a hard edge at defeating counters to many of the other Fighting- and Dragon-type counters in the tier.

:stunfisk: Stunfisk to A: Stunfisk is able to provide just what it promised while I was patiently anticipating its drop. Its formidable defensive typing and bulk allows it to be one of the most reliable, if not the most reliable, Stealth Rock setter in the tier. I find it hard to explain why this Pokemon is deserving of such spot cause I honestly think the way it functions is quite self explanatory, but even diverse tools such as Foul Play allow it to be a solid check to a lot of Silvally formes, which is an added plus from the amazing typing that allows it to stop obvious checks such as Mane, Mawile, etc. Its great having a bulky Ground in the tier that isn’t Palpitoad, and Stunfisk is even able to help vs the T-Spike mu by being a Ground type that beats Mare 1v1, which is more of an added bonus, but one that I really appreciate after hating on T-Spikes for an entire meta lol.

:raboot: Raboot to A-: This mons is one of the most fun surprises that we had this month. A semi fast Fire-type wallbreaker that is able to do so much damage thanks to Libero is something I never thought we needed but that I gladly accept. Its access to STAB Sucker Punch allows it to revenge kill even common scarfers such as Mr. Mime after chipping it down, and I think it fits rather nicely with other frail wallbreakers like Fraxure and Basculin.

:stonjourner: Stonjourner A to A-: The once almost impossible to switch into wallbreaker seems to suffer more and more with each shift, having to deal with the plethora of Fighting-types and now having to deal with two incredibly solid Ground-types dropping to PU. This one is a no brainer, Stons qualities as a scarfer aren’t as desired right now as in many metas ago and while its breaking power is still incredibly threatening, we have more than enough tools to justify a drop in my opinion.

:glaceon: Glaceon A to A-: Glaceon was already finding trouble fitting into teams with the drop of Mr. Rime, but the most recent drop in Mr. Mime Galar means that now Glace is able to be outclassed in many departments as a Specs and Scarf user by both the mime and the tap dancer. Its damage output still allows it to distinguish itself from both, but usually the Psychic stab that you gain from Rime and Mime, as well as useful moves such as HW, Trick, means that Glace is more often than not, a less desired option. Cleric sets are still great attributes for Stall and really bulky balance, but I think its hard to argue that this once nearly broken threat has seen better days.

:gourgeist: Gourgeist B to A-: Fuck man, this mon is so hyped in the meta and for a really good reason. NP sets are incredibly difficult to switch into and its ability to run Substitute makes it so even walls such as Type:Null aren’t able to touch it. This is without counting other sets such as Band and Scarf which are also able to offer enough Defensive utility while being scary af wallbreakers. I wouldn’t be surprised if this ends up rising even more but for now I think A- is enough since its low damage output makes it so its dead weight vs very offensive teams.

:dusclops: Dusclops C+ to B: Dusclops ability to function as a great spinblocker vs. Rime and Mime is probably what makes it such a desired pick for bulky Spike Stack teams. Its also able to defeat most of the Fighting-types in the tier as well as a multitude of Special breakers that turn it into a pseudo Ice- and Electric-check. Surely its exploitable as fuck, but Dusclops is able to carve a really solid niche in our meta for now.

:dubwool: Dubwool A+ to A- or B+: Dubwool simply struggles with a lot in the meta. I personally never thought that it was this overbearing presence in the tier, but with the most recent drops its quite obvious that this one trick pony isn’t doing as well as before. New tools vs. T spike teams as well as the high usage of Ghost-types such as the aforementioned Gourg and Dusclops put it in quite a bad spot, and Silvally formes such as Psychic and Bug are usually able to get past it with ease granted they have the right moves.

:shiinotic: Shiinotic A- to B+: This one is also quite self explanatory so I wont go over how mons like Top and Falinks are able to get past it, but the rise in Gourgeist is also a big thing that makes it so awkward in the tier since that usually takes the spot of a semi bulky Grass type that is also able to threaten so much offensively. Idk this is another no brainer for me but I hope this was eloquent enough.

:hitmontop: Hitmontop from A- to A: Hitmontop to me always deserved at least this spot. Id say that its even more threatening than offensive Throh sets or Falinks itself, since its access to a much more spammable priority, easy way of getting past grassed and Mareanie, and a more than decent selection of utility moves and ability turn Top into a premier Fighting-type in the meta.

Some quick thoughts on certain mons that I either haven’t tried enough or are simply too much of a hassle to discuss:

  • Obviously most Silvallys bar Rock and Ice should rise imo.
  • Thwackey being such a great support Pokemon means that Thievul gets so much better.
  • Mr. Mime Galar has its useful perks over its Kantonian variant but struggles to be as consistent thanks to its lower defense, lack of access to Slack Off as well as being significantly weaker than Mr. Rime. Despite this, its Speed gives it a great way of outspeeding Silvallys and Scarf variants are formidable revenge killers. I honestly don’t have much experience w Mime yet but id say that around B+ is a good place to start with it.
  • Specs Basculin is quite terrifying but Im not sure if it warrants a rise. Would love some thoughts on this one.
  • Everytime Ive ran into an offensive Dusknoir from Specs or in my tour matches vs llamas ive been constantly surprised by how scary it is. Havent tried it myself and Im not really sure how Id support it right now, but this might be a cool wallbreaker to explore more.

Thank you so much for reading and I hope you enjoyed the noms. This ever evolving meta becomes a little bit more friendly to play as time passes, and Im excited to see the innovations that occur during PUPL. These are fun times and the meta is getting better little by little!
 
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TJ

Banned deucer.
is the Smogon Tour Season 34 Championis a Past SPL Championis a Two-Time Past SCL Champion
hi, figured that I would post a few noms as its been awhile since ive shared my thoughts about the vr publicly

:dubwool: A+ -> B+
While Dubwool can thrive in certain matchups, it no longer has the same restriction on teambuilding as it did previously. Ghost-type pokemon and Toxic Spike absorbers such as drakloak, nasty plot gourgeist-normal, roselia, and haze mareanie have further integrated themselves into the meta, while strong checks like manectric, beheeyem, mr. rime, heatmor, and silvallies running flamethrower coverage deny easy set up and revenge kill it reliably. Although dubwool's defensive utility is appreciated in keeping threatening Pokemon like pawniard and sd silvallies in check, its now left in an uncomfortable spot with decreased consistency.

:ludicolo: A- -> B+
Rain Dance Ludicolo is fairly hard to use right now due to the metagame constantly working against it. Its difficult fitting on a team as a sweeper and breaker because it notably struggles against popular threats such as mr rime, type null, roselia, and priority users like falinks, fraxure, hitmontop, and pikachu. There are simply better grass and water types to use right now, although av ludicolo's utility with knock off is appreciated enough to still warrant being B+.

:thwackey: -> A-
Thwackey has received a lot of attention ever since it recently gained access to grassy surge, becoming a staple on terrain teams with thievul. Its solid bulk, boosted power from terrain, and coverage options in knock off and u-turn allow it to put a lot of pressure on teams and allows it to cement a unique niche in the metagame over its other physcial grass-type counter-parts in leafeon and silvally grass.

:thievul: A- -> A / A+
Thievul has solidified itself as a huge asset to several offensive teams on popular terrain teams. Its good coverage, solid bulk after a + 1 defense boost from grassy/electric seed, ability to abuse spikes, access to protect for circumventing revenge killers like first impression falinks and fraxure, and power after a +2 nasty plot boost have all allowed it to show its worth as a menacing sweeper thats well above A- rank.

:mareanie: A- -> A
Mareanie is simply an excellent pick in the metagame due to its amazing role compression and consistency as both a toxic spike setter and absorber. It has a strong matchup against common Fighting-types like falinks and throh, stands as one of the best reliable checks to pokemon like dubwool, silvally bug, and offensive mawile, and makes good use of its utility options in scald, haze, and knock off.

:silvally: (grass) B -> A+
Silvally Grass' bulky Sub + SD set is capable of heavily pressuring its reliable defensive counterplay due to being able to comfortably run substitute with enough defense and hp investment to circumvent conventional checks in defensive mawile, while being able to power through counters like shiinotic and gourgeist-super sets lacking foul play. This in tandem with its access to defog, ability to pivot out of any check with u-turn, or simply choose to beat any said check with a work up set or the correct coverage move makes it one of the most centralizing pokemon in the tier.

:stunfisk: -> A
Stunfisk's ability to set up stealth rock reliably, act as a solid volt switch stop, take advantage of ground-type switch ins like shiinotic with toxic + protect or yawn, and check pokemon like manectric, pawniard, mawile, silvally electric, silvally rock, pikachu, and silvally psychic (if running foul play) is extremely useful in this meta and warrants a spot somewhere in the A rank.

:heatmor: B -> B+
Heatmor is a pretty valuable and underrated pick right now that has all the tools it needs to break common defensive cores like roselia/palpitoad/mr rime and mareanie/mawile. Breaking the aforementioned cores + checking pokemon like nasty plot gourgeist-normal, glaceon, mr. mime-galar, and silvally bug in one slot is amazing considering that it can also cripple things like type null with knock off and revenge kill faster pokemon like silvally psychic and mr rime with sucker punch.

here is a replay of Slowbroth destroying me in kickoff tour recently with scarf heatmor lol:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1119452134-7vdc1zfb70u9gy9bysrv1ra7xvwte99pw

:basculin: A- -> A
Specs Basculin has recently gained more traction and enjoys metagame trends like matching up well against popular defensive pokemon like defensive mareanie and mawile. Defensive counterplay is limited to essentially just type null, palpitoad, ludicolo and lapras, which has seen a significant decrease in usage in the latter two cases. specs basculin in general appreciates the rise in pokemon like stunfisk and popularity of grass-types like nasty plot gourgeist normal, roselia, and silvally grass taking heavy damage from its ice beam.

thanks for reading!
 
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DC

Kpop Main, No Brain
is a Community Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Agreeing with many of the nominations. I've been having a good time experimenting with the new releases and drops and thought it would be nice to contribute to the VR.

Nominations:
:Raboot: to B+
Surprisingly, this mon is very decent. Having Libero and a solid movepool, when combined with Choice Band, makes it dangerous for most defensive cores to switch into it. I've also had success with a LO set, taking advantage of a nice tech in Electro Ball to bop those Mareanie switch-ins. However, it does struggle with a couple noticeable issues such as weakness to SR, awkward speed tier (slower than Silvallys), and just lack of general defensive utility which keeps the mon from being A tier.

:Thwackey: to A+
Oh boi, my favorite PU mon so far. Grassy Surge just enables so many different options, both defensively and offensively, which makes Thwackey splashable on almost all teams. Residual healing is very nice for defensive cores, especially mons like Palpitoad that do not use Leftovers. I also think that it elevates Grassvally and Thievul to A+ tier threats since both can abuse terrain to set up and sweep. Thwackey itself is not that bad, functioning sorta as a hybrid between Leafeon and Grassvally. It can capitalize on its access to both Knock Off and U-turn to soften defensive cores and act as a pivot, letting it complement many sweepers.

:Stunfisk: to A-/A
Generally, a solid Stealth Rock setter. Having a water weakness is not great, but it is annoying for most teams to play around Stunfisk since it has access to many different forms of status. Foul Play is also an underrated option which lets it serve a soft check to some physical attackers.

:Silvally-Grass: to A+
This had been long overdue. The release of Thwackey and Grassy Surge solved alot of the issues that I had with the defensive SD Grassvally set which were lack of recovery and immediate power. It is very difficult to switch into since Multi-attack under terrain hits like a truck and many of its switch-ins just get cooked by Flamethrower.

:Thievul: to A/A+
Another beneficiary of Grassy Surge, Thievul has elevated since the last VR. The NP set with Grassy Seed is a very powerful wincon and remedies some of Thievul's lackluster defensive capabilities. Also, Thievul is much easier to fit on teams now since you don't need to always run a Pincurchin to enable it.

Thanks for reading till the end!
 

MZ

And now for something completely different
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Hi I'm doing this VR update because hosting PUPL and Kickoff is plenty for one TL to handle. here's the sheet
New shifts and starters
:Mr-Mime-Galar: to A
:Stunfisk: to A-
:Raboot: to A-
:Thwackey: to A
:Corsola: to C

Rises
:Silvally-Grass:-Grass B to A+
:Silvally-Bug:-Bug A to A+
:Manectric: A to A+
:Thievul: A- to A
:Mareanie: A- to A
:Basculin: A- to A
:Fraxure: A- to A
:Roselia: B+ to A-
:Silvally-Rock:-Rock B+ to A-
:Gourgeist:-Normal B to A-
:Heatmor: B to A-
:Silvally-Ice:-Ice B- to B+
:Dusclops: C+ to B
:Hakamo-o: C- to B-
:Natu: C to C+
:Dartrix: to C+
:Duosion: to C
:Lampent: C- to C
:Mudbray: to C-

Drops
:Dubwool: A+ to A-
:Stonjourner: A to A-
:Ludicolo: A- to B+
:Persian: B to B-
:Greedent: C+ to C-

We split 50/50 on ranking Farfetch'd, dropping Klang to B+, and raising Vibrava to B+, so they default to being unranked and not moving, respectively. Like last gen these can be considered discussion points for next update but since next update will be post-DLC, idk how much any of it will stay applicable. We'll at least take another look at Farfetch'd I'm sure.

As for some explanations/discussion- most of the new mons are pretty good. Galar Mime is just small discount on Galar Rime, Thwackey and Raboot are real powerful, Stunfisk is a really nice rocker although its defensive typing is a bit annoying with the frequency of Grass/Ice/Water types. We dropped previous meta titans in Dubwool and Stonjourner because they've kinda fallen off as top threats, Dubwool in particular is still capable of blowing back unprepared teams but now that everybody is thinking about beating it all the time it's one of those mons that falls off fast. 2/3s of the Silvallies got a bump except Electric because they continue to be broken, and we ranked a few new Pokemon that we felt were worth consideration and had some reasonable viability like Dartrix, Mudbray, and Duosion. As always if you have more questions there's PMs, the SQSA thread, Discord, the PU room, etc. I don't know when the next update will be due to, y'know, all the DLC and shifts and whatnot, so until next time!
 
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Cheezy

up on melancholy hill
is a Top Tiering Contributor
Going to write a quick post here.

:dusknoir:, :Gourgeist: (normal) to B- and A

Getting a extremely powerful STAB in Poltergeist helps these Pokemon so much. Dusknoir can run Band which breaks many of the tiers phys walls like Gourg-Super, Intimidate Mawile, Dusclops, and of course having a strong STAB option in a tier full of Psychics is naturally good. It's bulk helps provide it with many opportunities to get in.

Gourgeist has less attack but a lot more speed and coverage options over Dusknoir, and being able to spam both incredibly strong STAB in Power Whip and Poltergeist is very good. Fire Blast helps nail Mawile although Poltergiest still does 3HKO it, as well as Tangela which would wall it very well. NP sets are still extremely threatening as well.

I think that Poltergeist will be so incredibly potent Physcial Attacking Ghost-types to the point that I could see Psychic types even running Kasib berry over Colbur.

An honorable mention to Lightning Rod :pincurchin: and :thwackey: too. Strong Electric types like Manectric, Raichu and itself now get a incredibly strong STAB move in Rising Voltage under Electric Terrain, so Pincurchin who can absorb it and Thwackey who can prevent Electric Terrain with it's own terrain can pretty easily beat it. Specs Manectric is the mane problem for me due to it's damage output. Calcs below.

252 SpA Choice Specs Manectric Rising Voltage vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gourgeist-Super in Electric Terrain: 243-286 (64.9 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Manectric Rising Voltage vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Dusclops in Electric Terrain: 153-181 (53.8 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Manectric Rising Voltage vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Type: Null in Electric Terrain: 192-226 (48.7 - 57.3%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Manectric Rising Voltage vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Pincurchin in Electric Terrain: 219-258 (73 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Manectric Rising Voltage vs. 204 HP / 252+ SpD Throh in Electric Terrain: 306-361 (70.8 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
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Going to write a quick post here.

:dusknoir:, :Gourgeist: (normal) to B- and A

Getting a extremely powerful STAB in Poltergeist helps these Pokemon so much. Dusknoir can run Band which breaks many of the tiers phys walls like Gourg-Super, Intimidate Mawile, Dusclops, and of course having a strong STAB option in a tier full of Psychics is naturally good. It's bulk helps provide it with many opportunities to get in. Another set being Specially defensive curse Dusknoir is another one i've also been using. It's bulk is good enough to get at least two curses, where it would be almost untouchable on the phys def side and still bulky on the special def side, while hitting very hard at +2 Attack.

Gourgeist has less attack but a lot more speed and coverage options over Dusknoir, and being able to spam both incredibly strong STAB in Power Whip and Poltergeist is very good. Fire Blast helps nail Mawile although Poltergiest still does 3HKO it, as well as Tangela which would wall it very well. NP sets are still extremely threatening as well.

I think that Poltergeist will be so incredibly potent Physcial Attacking Ghost-types to the point that I could see Psychic types even running Kasib berry over Colbur.

An honorable mention to Lightning Rod :pincurchin: and :thwackey: too. Strong Electric types like Manectric, Raichu and itself now get a incredibly strong STAB move in Rising Voltage under Electric Terrain, so Pincurchin who can absorb it and Thwackey who can prevent Electric Terrain with it's own terrain can pretty easily beat it. Specs Manectric is the mane problem for me due to it's damage output. Calcs below.

252 SpA Choice Specs Manectric Rising Voltage vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gourgeist-Super in Electric Terrain: 243-286 (64.9 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Manectric Rising Voltage vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Dusclops in Electric Terrain: 153-181 (53.8 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Manectric Rising Voltage vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Type: Null in Electric Terrain: 192-226 (48.7 - 57.3%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Manectric Rising Voltage vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Pincurchin in Electric Terrain: 219-258 (73 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Manectric Rising Voltage vs. 204 HP / 252+ SpD Throh in Electric Terrain: 306-361 (70.8 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Not sure about Curse on Dusknoir : since it's a ghost type, it won't set it up, it will cut its HP in half and damage the opponent at the end of each turn. EDIT : sniped

I feel like running no item instead of Kasib Berry is a better option : by doing so, you're immuned to Poltergeist and don't take the bonus damages from Knock Off.

Manectric was always good, and its access to Rising Voltage is going to pressure teambuilding even more. If your only switch in to Manectric was Type:Null, for example, it will no longer be reliable because of the existence of Pincurchin + Rising Voltage Manectric (never liked Type:Null as a Manectric switch in however, because of trick, but that's another debate). I wouldn't go laddering without a ground type (or Seaking) right now, and with Baculin having Flip Turn, Palpitoad is easier than ever to put into teams.

However, I never actually tried the Pincurchin + Manectric core, and therefore I have no idea about how effective it is in battle.


Also, having access to fire coverage made Thievul absolutely awesome right now. It rose to A before DLC, it can, in my opinion, surely rise to A+ right now.
 
:Mr rime: and :Mr mime-galar: to B+
these pokemon are extremely overrated. they take too much from neutral hits damaging their position as spinners. there are many pokemon who can check them too. their stabs don't do much damage to strong checks like dusknoir, crustle, heatmor

:dubwool: to S
idk why this dropped, as I think it is still a giant threat rn. t-spikes support can easily beat ghosts like dusknoir and trev. the amount of pressure this pokemon puts on your opponent is giant. its only real check is heatmor which isn't even that good or used rn.

:Mawile: to S
this pokemon is a amazing check to thwackey which is a meta defining threat rn. stealth rocks on a pokemon that isn't a rock type is very good as well. sd lo has very few checks. s tier for sure imo.

:sinistea: to ur
this pokemon does absolotely nothing in a game. +2 doesn't even kill musharna.

:stufful: to ur
this pokemon is outclassed by dubwool completely. extra fighting type is by far good giving it unnecessary weaknesses to flying and psychic. u may be thinking, how does dubwool outclass this thing if dubwool doesn't even run a defensive set? it's because I have been running a defensive set which is much better than stufful's defensive set.

:palpitoad: to a
great check to rising voltage users, flip turn seaking and mareanie. of course being a rocker that is only weak to one type is great too. having scald and a rocks resist is also extremely helping.

this noms I've made may seem very stupid and it seems like I haven't played much gen 8 pu, but I def have, and these are my opinions on the tiers
 
hi i ship no one cuz im cool, thanks for posting this. i'm always glad to see new players get involved and work to contribute to the playerbase and the metagame.

with that being said, i highly disagree with some of your noms. moreover, in general, the day before tier shifts (the 1st day of the month) is not a really good time to do vr noms as the meta is about to completely change and some arguments may end up being irrelevant, but i'm not blaming you for possibly not knowing this and will respond to these in relation to the current meta.

:Mr rime: and :Mr mime-galar: to B+
these pokemon are extremely overrated. they take too much from neutral hits damaging their position as spinners. there are many pokemon who can check them too. their stabs don't do much damage to strong checks like dusknoir, crustle, heatmor
a pokemon's viability isn't defined only by how it performs in isolation, but also by how it interacts with other team members and how its competition in the tier fares (if it has any). while neither of these can handle every pokemon in pu in a 1v1 situation, it's very important to note that these two are pretty much our only viable rapid spin users in a tier where spikes and tspikes are extremely good (the next best spinner is carkol and it's ass), and they're not even bad at that as they can beat most spinblockers with stabs/coverage. your alternative hazard removers either remove your spikes or struggle even more with ghost-types like trev. also, the last few examples aren't even that stellar at handling rime: crustle and heatmor get 2hkoed by psychic, meaning that they can never switch in safely, and both get ohkod by choice specs sets that they can't even attempt to check. dusknoir gets 2hkod by choice specs shadow ball and while it's a 3hko without specs, it still puts immense pressure on dusknoir, which isn't the absolute most threatening mon and is not impossible to check. besides them having extremely well-defined niches, they're both genuinely good mons that can provide a lot of utility for your team, especially in the case of mr. rime which is very flexible and can viably run a wide range of sets from defensive wall to specs wallbreaker. imo they're good to stay right where they are.

:dubwool: to S
idk why this dropped, as I think it is still a giant threat rn. t-spikes support can easily beat ghosts like dusknoir and trev. the amount of pressure this pokemon puts on your opponent is giant. its only real check is heatmor which isn't even that good or used rn.
as a one-trick pony that is highly predictable, easy to prep for, and completely reliant on tspikes support to function (unlike other currently high-ranked mons that can stand up on their own much better and/or provide much more utility to their teams), i really don't think it deserves s-rank - with just how common psychics, ghosts, and opposing tspikes setters like mareanie and roselia (that not only completely wall you but also make it very hard for you to keep your tspikes up) are, i see it more deserving of dropping to the b-ranks if anything. heatmor is not the only dubwool check, and i wouldn't even say non-scarf heatmor a good one bc most dubwools outspeed it and just heavily dent it with body press; musharna, beheeyem, shiinotic, togetic, mr. mime, roselia, mareanie, and just about every ghost-type that it cannot do anything to without tspikes are all great and consistent dubwool checks that you would want to run on your team regardless of dubwool. besides that, there are plenty of special attackers like manectric, raichu, and even mr. rime that can't switch in but can otherwise take it out easily.

:sinistea: to ur
this pokemon does absolotely nothing in a game. +2 doesn't even kill musharna.
while i don't fundamentally disagree with sinistea going unranked, one-liners like this one don't really contribute much to the conversation. someone who doesn't have experience in pu can read this and go "ok, so it can't ko musharna, and?" what does the inability to ko musharna say about a mon? most mons in the tier can't ko musharna. as a reader i expect to see more practical examples and comparisons to its competitors (and an explanation as to why they outclass it and why there's no reason to run sinistea.

:stufful: to ur
this pokemon is outclassed by dubwool completely. extra fighting type is by far good giving it unnecessary weaknesses to flying and psychic. u may be thinking, how does dubwool outclass this thing if dubwool doesn't even run a defensive set? it's because I have been running a defensive set which is much better than stufful's defensive set.
correct me if i'm wrong, but it sounds to me like you never really used it or bothered to explore its niche. while it's generally less consistent than dubwool and harder to work with due to its low speed, it's very important to note that it is easier to just throw out to the field to absorb a hit as it's not reliant on setup to function as a wall, but even more importantly it has access to toxic, which means that unlike dubwool it can actually directly punish most of its switch-ins without massively relying on external support, with ghost-types being the most notable. moreover, dubwool also really struggles with the same psychic-types, and it's true that stufful is weak to flying-type moves bc it's a fighting-type but we have about two viable flying-types in the tier (vespiquen and togetic) and dubwool can't beat them either. while i haven't seen much of it recently, and i wouldn't care to see it drop to c or c-, i believe its niche is still good enough to warrant keeping it ranked.

hopefully you've found my response insightful. thanks again for posting, and welcome to smogon!
 
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AllTerrainVen0moth

Banned deucer.
:krokorok: to C+
ok mon, its a decent rocks lead and attacker
:kubfu: to C+
more offensive than krokorok, would be better if it has swords dance
:kadabra: to A+
serious offensive threat
:tangela: to A
brick wall of doom
:jigglypuff: to C-
small niche with wishport
:seadra: to B+
decent scarfer, is also ok defensively
:whirlipede: to C
speedy spikes setter
:carvahna: to C-
outclassed by seaking, but it has speed boost
:darumaka: to C-
decent wallbreaker with hustle
:lickitung: to C
decent cleric
:mienfoo: to C+
bulky attacker with regenerator sounds cool
:ponyta-galar: to C-
speedy healing wish mon
:porygon: to B-
all around decent pokemon
:tentacool: to C-
see tentacool in ORAS pu for explanation
(will edit once tier shifts are out)
 

MZ

And now for something completely different
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Ok, it took a hot sec but we have a brand new VR for the post-DLC, post-tier shifts, post-quickban and quickunbans metagame! I can't really summarize all the changes because this is basically an entirely new VR for an entirely new meta. I'm also not going to post individual votes because it'd be a massive hassle to go through, trust me it's just not worth this time. Just a few things to note which also double as potential discussion points:
The S rank choices were a bit contentious. Galardash was an easy include, everything else there was some back and forth on. Throh was off by just 1 vote to end up in S rank.
People were all over the place on Type: Null. We had some people pushing for A+ great blanket check, and some people going B rank super abusable.
Gourgeist-Large can barely do anything that Gourgeist and Gourgeist-Super can't do, but we still snuck it into B- for the Weakness Policy Flame Charge sets that have shown up a little bit mostly from tlenit. Whether it keeps that ranking is unclear.
We've got one Electric-type in every rank from A- to B-. Should they be so spread out?
Most of the low ranks are much harder to judge since they haven't seen as much usage, I'm sure they'll need plenty of ironing out.

That's all, this thread is now open for discussion!
 
Looks great but I'm wondering if Mr Rime has decreased in value. I'm by no means saying it isn't great, rather it's still super viable and good on teams but just not S rank.

We have a few new solid Defog users in addition to other spinners that aren't completely trash. Mr Rime's Specs set is probably it's best set currently (Special Ice-type attacks are just demonic at the moment and so anti-metagame) which is a far cry of what it was when it first hit the tier. It use to be the boots spinner set while the NP set was also great back then. Throw in Poltergeist into the mix, a more offence orientated metagame meaning Mr Rime with it's middling speed tier struggles to set up properly. The speed of the tier jumped by quite a bit and I just cannot see Mr Rime giving insane team support anymore. It can absolutely punch holes, run away and then come back again in the game which is great but the fact that more than one of it's set at the moment took quite a hit, not sure it should be S while the likes of Throh who just absolutely is a pain for the metagame as a whole and has more than great set at the moment is below it. Gourgeist coming back definetely does it no favours as well in addition to Hamtaro joining the tier (goddamn it).

Special Attacking Ice-types in general have just taken to the shadows for the time being and they definitely are potent however their crap speed and terrible defensive typing just makes them not the flavour of the month. They're absolutely great at smashing open the odd stall but seeing as stall is even less common than before, I just see these Ice-types having a hard types vs the increased fire power of the metagame in general.


Just my personal thoughts, think it should be A+ alongside other great Pokemon but not absolutely bordering broken like Gapidash (is that the new abbreviation?) and Stunfisk who is just such a no-brainer to add to almost any team and it just works..like all the time.
 
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Raahel

MANO TENGO FE
is a Tiering Contributor
Hello again !, I have come to make some nominations as before, well let's get to it



Yep Vullaby is my primary nomination, I really like how he works on stall / fat teams as well as being a good response to Lilligant, especially the Special Defense set. Vullaby acts as a Hazard Removal with Defog and a response to Lilligant, CM Rapidash-Galar (if you don't have Dazzling geam), Appletun among others. Vullaby does not have a very large movepool to use other than Roost, Defog, Knock Off / U-turn, Brave Bird and they still make a very good Special / Physical wall and a pokemon that can be dangerous if it attacks certain pokemon like Dusknoir , Gourgeist, Lilligant etc. I think Vullaby should go up from B- to B or B+.

Vullaby @ Eviolite
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Defog
- Knock Off
- Roost
- Brave Bird

252 SpA Life Orb Lilligant Pollen Puff vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Vullaby: 73-86 (21.2 - 25%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO +1 252 SpA Life Orb Lilligant Pollen Puff vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Vullaby: 108-127 (31.4 - 37%) -- 83% chance to 3HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Lilligant Pollen Puff vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Vullaby: 143-169 (41.6 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Appletun Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Vullaby: 183-216 (53.3 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Appletun Dragon Pulse vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Vullaby: 120-142 (34.9 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Rapidash-Galar Mystical Fire vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Vullaby: 49-58 (14.2 - 16.9%) -- possible 6HKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Rapidash-Galar Mystical Fire vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Vullaby: 73-87 (21.2 - 25.3%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Rapidash-Galar Mystical Fire vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Vullaby: 96-114 (27.9 - 33.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Note: These calcs are in the best possible scenario for Lilligant, Rapidash Galar and Appletun

I do not have replays of Vullaby in Action but if I have a team stall that builded more than 1 month ago and several friends used it in the pu open with good results, here it is Vullaby Spd + Rocky Helmet Stunfisk Stall, The team is from 1 month ago so it is a bit outdated but with some changes it can be used in the current metagame.

Other Noms

Rises

B+ to A-

Glaceon is one of the most powerful special attacking pokemon in PU it has very few counters to say nothing, only pokemon like Hitmo AV, Klinklang Spd or Type Null can enter it and it still costs them if there are hazards on the ground for what it is Better to enter a free turn to be able to do revenge kill something that is not the best, the only bad thing about glaceon is its speed and that is known so that a rise in the vrs would not be so crazy .

(Ice) A- to A

When I saw the VR it seemed a bit strange that Silvally-Rock is higher than Silvally-Ice, so I decided to make a nomination for rise, the SD Set is very good covering almost everything in the metagame the combination of Stab + Flame Charge + Filler becomes very dangerous at times so it seems to me that Silvally-Ice should be at a similar level to Silvally-Rock in this VR.

Drops

S to A+ or A

I agree with Somalia about this pokemon, its level has decreased a bit with the arrival of pokemon like flareon, morpeko, dugtrio-alola etc. Besides that now there are more viable Hazard Removals than before, it is still good and viable but not to be S Rank.


I hope you liked reading my nominations this time and excuse me for my bad English on certain occasions.
 

Leni

formerly tlenit
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past SCL Champion
RUPL Champion
I would like to make a nom real quick
:tentacool: UR to C-
Tentacool has the third highest special defense in the tier with Eviolite, outside of Eviolite Sligoo and Shuckle. It also has some amazing utility with its movepool which consists of Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin. No more explanation is needed as to why this is viable.

:
Actually, there is a lot more explanation required and im down to hear them and more so see it in action too.

Do not post one-liners in this thread. Unless it is an exceptional sentence that is able to justify or explain something in a few words, one-liners rarely contribute anything of value to a thread. For NFEs not already included in the viability rankings (or even already included): put the effort into actually investigating its uses in the metagame and providing substantial FACTS and REPLAYS to prove your point before you post. Opinions contribute very little to the discussion if they do not have something to back them up, nor do posts that look at a single point and ignore everything else that has been said. When arguing for a Pokemon's ranking, account for opposition, and do not attempt to ignore the drawbacks of a Pokemon either.
If nominating an unranked Pokemon to be ranked, it is highly recommended that you get feedback from the PU room and/or Discord beforehand to make sure that there is a concrete reason that said Pokemon deserves to be ranked.
 

Akir

A true villain!
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
Time for a long-overdue VR update!

Klinklang A+ to S
Throh A+ to S
Mr Rime S to A+
Galarian Mr Mime A to A+
Bouffalant to A+
Gourgeist Small to A+
Liepard to A
Lurantis to A
Hattrem A to A-
Heatmor B to A-
Raboot B+ to A-
Musharna A to B+
Swoobat A- to B+
Luxray to B
Politoed to B
Pyukumuku B+ to B
Vibrava B+ to B
Dugtrio B to B-
Krokorok B to C+
Togetic B to C+
Wigglytuff B to C+
Stoutland B- to C
Gourgeist Normal to UR
Gourgeist Large to UR

Bouffalant to A+
Gourgeist-Small to A+
Liepard to A
Lurantis to A
Luxray to B
Politoed to B


A rather large change, but a lot has happened since the last time we updated. Klinklang and Throh both made it to S, which is a surprise to absolutely no one. Their presence, shown highly in recent tournaments, is felt at every single level of the tier...from play to building, they are textbook S rank. Rime and Mime-G are now interestingly at the same rank, as recent meta shifts mostly Klinklang usage don't favor Rime but love Mime-G. The 2 mid-Gourgeist forms were also unranked, due to the acknowledgement that they do have small niches over the other forms but none of these niches are crucial enough to be ranked alongside the other more specialized forms. Other notable changes include Heatmor getting a huge jump due to Klinklang meta heavily favoring it, and Musharna who has the opposite problem of the meta really not favoring it much atm. All other shifts were fairly small adjustments to better showcase the metagame.

A few mons also missed votes by small margins. Should Gapidash (fight me) also fall to A+? That one is one that I personally would have liked to see happen but the council was split down the middle. What are your thoughts?
 
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Hello hello hello PUVR! It's Good Old Bulbs here and I would like to express my outrage at Wigglytuff dropping to ZU and me finally realising that its C+ on the VR? Hello?

:ss/Wigglytuff:
Wigglytuff @ Leftovers
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 48 HP / 208 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Dazzling Gleam
- Teleport​

I wished that I did not have to outline this for the community but dropping to ZU kinda forced me to. Wigglytuff is not only one of the best support Pokemon for balance (wish + teleport with that much HP can make some hella good things happen - I might post a replay if I find one or get one in the next few hours when ladder doesn't update), but it's also just one of the best Drifblim answers in the tier with Competitive into Strength Sap. Galvantula being added to the tier works wonders for this mon with webs as well and now that Cursola/Corsola-G gives some other Strength Sap options that might add to Wiggly's viability.

Nevertheless, Drifblim has been omnipresent in the current meta, racking up a 20% usage rate in the tier behind Sandslash (I have no idea why that thing has 28% for September m8s) and Wigglytuff dropping to ZU and being C+ just does not correlate. It is one of the few things in the tier which has good, reliable recovery and also acts as a defensive pivot. Again, it should not be C+. My nomination is that it rises to at least B.

I would do other noms if it wasn't the start of a new meta, so I guarantee I'll post again shortly after some bans that will probably happen and some other changes as well. Thanks!!
 
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