Tournaments SS SPL Discussion Thread

[dex]

Auction results:

SS cores (managers in italics)

Alpha Ruiners: Mannat, xavgb, Raptor, Fc, pj
Congregation of the Classiest: Luthier, mncmt, MichaelderBeste2, pdt, devin
Dragonspiral Tyrants: blunder, Ash KetchumGamer, Rubyblood, myjava
Cryonicles: njnp, booty, mind gaming, Finchinator, Separation, Luigi, QWILY, Floss, Dj Breloominati
Wi-Fi Wolfpack: starmaster, Fogbound Lake, zioziotrip, Seasons, Piyush25
Team Raiders: tricking, Gondra, TPP, Punny
Sharks: snaga, suapah, Attribute, Mimikyu Stardust
Ever Grande BIGs: xray, crying, 3d
Indie Scooters: elodin, hellom, Dasmer, Lord_Enz
Circus Maximus Tigers: z0mog, Storm Zone, Garay oak, JJ09LIE, Baloor

Maybe I missed some people, maybe I didn't. Fight me on it.

 

[dex]

My initial PRs for SS:

1. The Cryonicles look particularly stacked in SS this year. A ton of people played it extensively last generation, and with mind gaming support, you know some funky shit will be going down. I think there is a decent chance we see Luigi here, but it could be a rotation for all we know.

2. This team's SS core is definitely on the younger side, but don't let that fool you. Piyush is a star in the making, and Fogbound Lake + zioziotrip means there are plenty of pilots to choose from. While there is no "star power" per se, I think this set of players is going to overperform expectations.

3. I think most people would put the Tigers second, or even first, but the real question here is who on this team actually wants to play SS. Last I checked, each and every one of these players was a certified SS hater. That being said, the squad is too solid to ignore, so I will slot them here, but I am more than ready to be proven wrong.

4. The Tyrants have quite the setup. I expect Ash to go back to his winning ways in SS, but Rubyblood is a very capable starter as well. I listed blunder as support because he's one of the greatest to ever do it.

5. The Raiders definitely look good, but it is another situation of their best SS players being better at other generations. I have no doubt they will be fine, but it remains to be seen who will start and how their other slots will suffer for it.

6. If stresh is playing SS, this is much higher, but I don't know that for sure. Raptor is also good in this slot, but there is again no guarantee that they are playing the tier either. Between the two of them, I can't put the Ruiners lower than 5, I just have no assurances on what is going on in their slot.

7. Yet another situation of the best SS players on the team being better at other tiers. I'm less confident in the Classiest compared to the Raiders, so I'll put them here for now.

8. xray is a gifted builder and pilot in SS, and with some absolute cooks in crying and 3d, I think the BIGs will do just fine in SS this year. For the lack of team support, I am putting them here, but I have learned to not doubt xray when it comes to winning.

9. Listen, I'm rooting for the Sharks this year, but this is a weaker core. I know the rest of their team can definitely help out prep-wise, but it looks to me like Attribute will be making their SPL debut here. I like Attribute, but not enough to bump the Sharks higher if its just him and Mimikyu Stardust at the helm.

10. It genuinely looks like the Scooters just ignored SS. This is kind of wild to me considering there was a lot of SS talent in the pool that went undrafted, but what can you do. I cannot in good faith rank them higher than last place, this core looks destitute, to say the least.

 

[pulsar512b]

going to briefly discuss each replay from SPL in the first two weeks - this post is just gonna be week 1 but I'll post week 2 soon. going to be more angled @ metagame developments and innovations and other teambuilding aspects than the actual playing, though I will shout out particularly notable moments

Week 1:
[RUI] Jytcampbell vs Lord_Enz [SCO]
NP Torn tried it's best to carry Lord_Enz, but ultimately having an extremely slow defensive team relying on a non-light screen Pex for Shifu just got stomped by future sight. This game was lost by Lord_Enz making a basic error in the builder and just eating shit to a major combination/core in the tier. This is frankly embarrassing @ such a high level as SPL. AV Dragon Tail slowking is cool but I'm still unconvinced.
[CLA] MichaelderBeste2 vs damien the genius [TYR]
Jytcampbelltoxic'd Buzzwole and then over time was able to wear it down and make incredible progress w melmetal after it was removed. Well played game, if fairly uninteresting. Why are there two slowkings this week tho that mon is not that good what's going on
[CRY] Dj Breloominati♬ vs Eternal Spirit [TIG]
Fantastic game, why is there a zeraora on my screen, Eternal Spirit's team looks weird/bad to me and I don't think Fini is the fit here. The pult MU is worrying but I think that's just typical offense problems. Very glad to see DJ reading the pulse of the metagame and that Lele is really good into all these slow teams (I said in the SS Discord that it felt like people were trying to not lose rather than win which I do think is the cause here.), even if the matchup was not what was expected. I liked a lot of techs on DJ's team that led to victory, such as scarf rotom-wash and tbolt 4a lele, but the star of the show is of course Necrozma on a DD set which I think is something underexplored. Love the team, love the aggressive play
[RAI] TPP vs Attribute [SHA]
Kartana is good when torn is knocked and there's rocks up, who knew. Otherwise good play, the sub zapdos on attribute's team is not some huge innovation and is already somewhat of a known quantity but I don't think I've seen it w/ hurricane before (usually tbolt). Interested in what the last is - I would guess defog because you want hazard control but who knows.
[WOL] TDNT vs 3d [BIG]
I loved Blissey/Slowbro offenses while SS was CG for the longest time, and I think this is an interesting take, even if I don't think the archetype is particularly great. Specs trick taunt blace from 3d was a super cool tech and put in some work but eventually couldn't get there - I think this unusual use of the rarely relevant 4th slot on blace is super cool and should be experimented with more.


Overall
The teams this week were interesting, although I think the general metagame was way slower than it should be. As I previously mentioned, I think this is due to a mentality of playing to not lose. DJ did a great job at reading this and bringing lele to pick those apart, even if he ended up missing the target. ​

 

[pulsar512b]

Week 2:
[BIG] 3d vs MichaelderBeste2 [CLA]
someone brought the meme bewear ho to spl why??? and it won??? But on a serious note Polteageist carried this game and Hyper Beam on it is a cool idea to help deal with Weavile and generally remove stuff, and is a cool lure I'd like to see more of. Some unfortunate hax ended the game earlier than it could have, but I think with Heatran removed the game was not going to go very long anyway.
[SHA] Attribute vs Jytcampbell [RUI]
Koko was great, getting knock on Volcarona and abusing the lack of hazard removal was huge.

[TIG] Eternal Spirit vs TPP [RAI]
Eternal Spirit's team was really interesting - the defensive backbone of this offensive team is quite unusual but I like it a lot. Substitute heatran is also interesting, but the most impressive part is how well Moltres-Galar performed. In particular, I like how on this team it helps patch up the typically-problematic pult matchup.
[TYR] damien the genius vs Luigi [CRY]
Really cool team from Luigi. Originally was very confused about the point, but Normal Gem Explosion lando to lure other landos for zeraora was fantastic, as well as sub qd volcarona to target Heatran. Whirlpool Fini also makes a lot of sense on this team, removing key defensive pieces for Scizor and Hawlucha such as Toxapex.
[SCO] Lord_Enz vs TDNT [WOL]
Pult broken, I don't think Lord_Enz's team was awful this time but I think the play was well below par. If pult had hex this game would have been incredibly over, but even with just shadow ball it was able to cleave through a team w 2-3 pult answers. This mon is fucked up and deserves a suspect at some point. Anyway, TDNT good team liked it a lot, Heatran/Lando/Rotom-w as a defensive core for this sort of offense is cool even if I do have worries about the pult matchup. Rillaboom support helps a lot in that respect, however.

Overall
This week was a lot faster and a lot more offensive. I think this is a reaction to the very slow styles showcased last week, and a mix of trying to beat those and anticipating things like specs lele being brought more to cleave through those. Luigi and MDB2 bringing HO is perhaps the most extreme illustration, because those HOs often simply clown on offenses, although Luigi's team was certainly heavily teched for slower matchups.

If you want to talk to me about these posts or discuss anything about SS at all feel free to contact me either here or on discord (pulsiethedulsie) - have a great day!​

 

[pulsar512b]

Week 3
[RUI] Jytcampbell vs Eternal Spirit [TIG]
the rise of rotom-wash post-end of CG is one of the big stories of SS's development tbh. otherwise: spirit's play around the cm wars was fucking awful cm suicune does not beat a taunt cm fini wake up. anyway team that lost the only/main blace swapin early lost to scarf blace, happens. undeserved as fuck win, spirit's team kinda sucked too imo (wtf is the plan for shifu on spirit's side??, melm is maybe also super overtaxed). on jyt's side, risking lando so early was super bad imo but there wasnt really a good play so im kinda ok w it? maybe youre supposed to not let it come in.
[CRY] Luigi vs 3d [BIG]
I like 3d's team it took a reasonably-well known offense team that was horrifyingly weak to melmetal and replaced the blacephalon with a magnezone. would probably make it air balloon to further help but 10/10 idea. unfortunately loaded into sand and lost. happens. luigi's team is super standard normal known stuff good but theres nothing i can say other than 'good sand'
[RAI] entrocefalo vs damien the genius [TYR]
i swear offense doesnt just lose to sand you can outplay it. not when you dont have a single defensive bone in your body tho. also good work trying to find an out entro but didnt get there
[WOL] TDNT vs MichaelderBeste2 [CLA]
mdb2's team is cool. didnt load into sand, great start. t4 was really good on mdb2's side i liked that a lot. DD pult good. other team was a lot more standard but kinda just matched up poorly i think and turn 4 really hurt otherwise shifu abuses scizor all day.
[SCO] Joya vs Attribute [SHA]
the reuni likers have gotten their first actual replay where it did something. everyone likes it in theory and then it never actually comes to a game. it won this game but it didnt really do anything - the endgame sweep didnt matter because koko won anyway. really good illustration of why koko is so good on fat. i think joya lost due to having a slightly worse team @ the super long game and not enough breaking power to just win quick. kinda dont like his team for that reason but it isnt some awful team just I think loaded into a bad mu.
Overall:
i really dont get why everyone's HO-ing i feel like there was so much less HO in cg and stuff. maybe its just relative lack of confidence in ss? doesn't really make sense idk anyway people are responding with sand so probably next week people will stop. the hos are cool tho i like them a lot of the time theres neat ideas. probably next week the metagame will adapt again. might just loop back to something more like week 1. sand is tough to suggest an adaptation for but I would probably expect just normal bo/balance stuff. i think the ho is going to start decreasing at some point​

 

[pulsar512b]

Week 4
[TYR] damien the genius vs JustFranco [RUI]
Hail/Arctozolt won a game, the world is at peace. More seriously, I think this game is a great illustration of the virtues of hail with arctozolt putting in work vs this team. Additionally, the scizor sweep at the end and it's use earlier to get a knock off on torn illustrates some of the reasoning for it being a common mon on HO. I dislike the early play from JustFranco w blaziken (pult always stays in there if for no other reason than lack of switchins and you don't beat it anyway). Otherwise, franco's team is well known and very standard.
[TIG] false vs Hayburner [SCO]
We've seen Hayburner's team before (used twice in Wk 3 with minor differences). What I previously said stands, but I do like this air balloon version significantly more. Otherwise - Turn 1 is really interesting. I might have just went torn, but I do like the idea of trading some (mostly useless) lando hp for (fairly relevant) rotom chip + item. Otherwise, good positioning to trap ferro and then melm just kinda won with rotom knocked and later poisoned
[SHA] Attribute vs TDNT [WOL]
Good teams from both, TDNT's just being a solid bulky offense and attribute's being a very standard-looking grassy terrain team. There's not a lot to say here other than that the game was pretty well played.
[BIG] 3d vs TPP [RAI]
TPP's stone edge lando was cool. Otherwise, np trick sludge gking carries a slow grindy matchup. 3d played a little loose to start but it wasn't a huge deal and he got it done.
[CLA] MichaelderBeste2 vs Luigi [CRY]
im stupid and originally put the entirely wrong team because i watched luigi's game last week. sincerest apologies to both players.
I really don't understand Michael's turn 1 play. Buzzwole is important in the matchup and pult is far from certain to uturn out. In general, his play looked like shit. His team was ok but I'm kinda worried because there's very little plan for dragapult. Embarrassing week for him. Luigi's play was pretty good and the team looked pretty good from what little we could see. I like volcanion a lot on this sort of offense, being able to bring it in so much with the pivoters is huge.
Overall:
Play was ok, but strongly disappointed in the teambuilding. The lack of proper SS support and general lack of attention to SS is beginning to show. The teams are good, but trite and overused. I'm looking for better next week, and I think it will come from the Cyronicles. Luigi impressed and DJ showed good innovation week 1. looking @ midseason auction, theres good ss support in the pool if you want it. or you can call me first team to ask gets me as an unofficial helper if they want.​

 

[pulsar512b]

Week 5
[RAI] entrocefalo vs MichaelderBeste2 [CLA]
entrocefalo's team is. just not it tbh im a strong believer in Six Good Mons. this team has 2. also dubious play and a completely awful pult matchup. not it. mdb2 just did normal things and won. very disappointing
[WOL] TDNT vs Luigi [CRY]
Luigi brought an iteration on the classic ox hail by replacing the AV torn with a Weavile. Conceptually, this makes some sense as a large reason why torn was there and was AV was to have something fast and offensive that could be somewhat a check to pult, and a lot of it's defensive duties were doubled up with corviknight already. TDNT's team is a pretty mediocre BO. I don't like a lot of the individual mon choices and the pult mu is worrying but it's probably like.. fine? I'm really unsure why there's a zeraora. The Autonomize Celesteela feels very gimmicky here but in this particular matchup it's great and maybe there's something to this. In general though, I think this team would not hold up over a longer sample size and is just purely relying on the surprise factor. Disappointed in both here to be honest.
[RUI] Jytcampbell vs 3d [BIG]
Classic structure of a good slow team from Jytcampbell, and a relatively slow/defensive grassy terrain balance from 3d. IMO these are the sorts of teams people need to start targeting with Tapu Lele-s in the metagame. Please. just bring tapu lele. im begging you. anyway turn 57 was monumentally stupid from jyt when you have a super free dragonite. sure it can get knocked. its gonna get knocked at some point and tbqh it can do it's job knocked. no benefit to going ferro either w torn defogging away spikes. In the builder, jyt made a very bad choice IMO by going dual wingbeat on DD Dnite. Not only does that set completely blank against corviknight generally speaking, it also struggled to hit garchomp for real damage without being cripped by toxic. I think it would have still struggled to break clef, but it would have given a better chance. Otherwise, I think 3d played reasonably well.
[SCO] Hayburner vs damien the genius [TYR]
This was the one good game of the bunch IMO. Both players are running reasonable offenses, other than that corviknight on damien's side which looks fucking ridiculous. That is just not a mon that fits on offense and in that slot something like a torn would be infinitely better. Icicle Crash on band weavile is also a pet peeve of mine because it's fucking stupid - it's just weak as fuck and isn't worth the slight consistency boost. Particularly on this team, you want ice shard and low kick. You even get ice shard if you really need a 100% accurate weak ice move! After some early hax, Hayburner's only real answer to specs volcanion in Slowbro gets eliminated. He then proceeds to play beautifully to limit it's opportunities to come in and illustrates exactly how offenses should play especially around such threats that they cannot defensively address. I think this was the one game where one side played actively good.
[SHA] Attribute vs Eternal Spirit [TIG]
I feel like Eternal Spirit's team was interesting but I'm not convinced. I'm not a huge fan of the clefable here but otherwise I like a lot of the stuff that's going on and I think it does have a place sometimes. Attribute brought a pretty normal balance, but sub hurricane discharge zap was very good here and carried the game. I think that set is very good and really should be used more - Attribute brought this exact team in week 1. this blatant reuse screams incompetence and a lack of meaningful support. this is a fucking joke.

Overall:
there was one good game this week. the rest were disappointing. you need to get your shit together and get actual support for your SS slots people. also maybe play better. it's week 5 at this point it's unforgivable. the more time i spend watching these games the more disappointed i am in the maintenance of this tier. council that doesn't care, official resources that have been dead for over a year, a mess of bad analyses that are only now beginning to get fixed. this tier has been in a deep state of neglect and the quality of play and especially teambuilding in SPL for it is. get your shit together people. every recap like this i do i just get more and more annoyed. draft people who care about the tier next time, maybe, just maybe that's a good idea.​

 

[z0mOG]

Overall:
there was one good game this week. the rest were disappointing. you need to get your shit together and get actual support for your SS slots people. also maybe play better. it's week 5 at this point it's unforgivable. the more time i spend watching these games the more disappointed i am in the maintenance of this tier. council that doesn't care, official resources that have been dead for over a year, a mess of bad analyses that are only now beginning to get fixed. this tier has been in a deep state of neglect and the quality of play and especially teambuilding in SPL for it is. get your shit together people. every recap like this i do i just get more and more annoyed. draft people who care about the tier next time, maybe, just maybe that's a good idea.​

Yeah you fucking LOSERS need to get your shit together in SS like Pulsar has. My SPL is ruined because of you bozos reusing teams.

 

[3d]

[RUI] Jytcampbell vs 3d [BIG]
turn 57 was monumentally stupid from jyt when you have a super free dragonite. sure it can get knocked. its gonna get knocked at some point and tbqh it can do it's job knocked. no benefit to going ferro either w torn defogging away spikes. In the builder, jyt made a very bad choice IMO by going dual wingbeat on DD Dnite. Not only does that set completely blank against corviknight generally speaking, it also struggled to hit garchomp for real damage without being cripped by toxic. I think it would have still struggled to break clef, but it would have given a better chance. Otherwise, I think 3d played reasonably well.​

turn 57 was definitely fine from jyt. he had revealed encore clef and was playing from behind so he had to get a few turns right to win. by revealing encore I assumed he thought i would never SD there, but in my head i wasn't worried about him encoring again because i could just switch out into tran and not lose too much.

getting chip on rillaboom opens up a koko end game so it wasn't a random play at all.. dnite still has odds to win and he doesn't need to go for it there since he still has opportunities to get some plays right to shift momentum. calling it "super free" is definitely incorrect and it could probably lose him the game from there.

jyt overall played the game well and definitely does not deserve to be called "monumentally stupid" over it. it's probably best to chill out a bit when analyzing some of these games and look at it through different perspectives going forward so u don't miss anything before saying crazy stuff like that.

 

[pulsar512b]

turn 57 was definitely fine from jyt. he had revealed encore clef and was playing from behind so he had to get a few turns right to win. by revealing encore I assumed he thought i would never SD there, but in my head i wasn't worried about him encoring again because i could just switch out into tran and not lose too much.

getting chip on rillaboom opens up a koko end game so it wasn't a random play at all.. dnite still has odds to win and he doesn't need to go for it there since he still has opportunities to get some plays right to shift momentum. calling it "super free" is definitely incorrect and it could probably lose him the game from there.

jyt overall played the game well and definitely does not deserve to be called "monumentally stupid" over it. it's probably best to chill out a bit when analyzing some of these games and look at it through different perspectives going forward so u don't miss anything before saying crazy stuff like that.

ye i probably should have paid more attention to that game in particular & definitely was too harsh this week my apologies.

 

[Baloor]

get your shit together people. every recap like this i do i just get more and more annoyed. draft people who care about the tier next time, maybe, just maybe that's a good idea.​

I know its easier for me to ignore these posts and move on but reading these posts has kind of upset me. I have followed and played this tier a lot since SS ended and still ladder it a fair bit (alt will not be disclosed) so I am not out of the loop with who is playing and whats good. I for one feel like I know this tiers pool better than a lot of people and can tell you that the people playing this tier are more than qualified to do so. Most of them have results post gen9 in various tours in SS or were good at it when it was the main gen. You can argue that there is a lack of top players in the pool but thats also because the gen itself just doesn't have a serious following yet, this is its first SPL as a old gen, lots of the "generally good players" have simply moved on for the time being. There is also a ton of people who can support the tier in the tour as well, I really think you're making the teams brought to be way worse than they actually are. SS is very much in a developmental stage right now where its trying to find its identity now that it doesnt have the spotlight. There really has not been a lot of trend changes since the end of gen8 outside of offense currently starting to get a bit more changeable so I am a little confused on why some of these teams are considered bad outside of some being a little more matchup fishy then others. Some of the team/set choices you mention of being "questionable" are either the normal "off meta" stuff people will bring to environments like SPL to catch people off guard or honestly things that aren't even that out there to begin with (wingbeat dnite).

I appreciate how much you obviously care for the tier and I do think your efforts will help this SS eventually take off considering you and a few others are driving the sub forum on your own, but calling people out for bad teams and shit play week after week when in reality its really not that deep is a really bad look. The games have just been fine, there's been some fun ones but nothing overly remarkable. There's not really anything that warrants the week after week super negative reaction. If somebody played poor, yeah go out there and say they played bad but I am sure you are also aware that you are over-reacting a good bit which is where it gets excessive. I think the analysis are nice to have and I hope you continue doing them but I just wanted to be honest with you.

 

[pulsar512b]

I know its easier for me to ignore these posts and move on but reading these posts has kind of upset me. I have followed and played this tier a lot since SS ended and still ladder it a fair bit (alt will not be disclosed) so I am not out of the loop with who is playing and whats good. I for one feel like I know this tiers pool better than a lot of people and can tell you that the people playing this tier are more than qualified to do so. Most of them have results post gen9 in various tours in SS or were good at it when it was the main gen. You can argue that there is a lack of top players in the pool but thats also because the gen itself just doesn't have a serious following yet, this is its first SPL as a old gen, lots of the "generally good players" have simply moved on for the time being. There is also a ton of people who can support the tier in the tour as well, I really think you're making the teams brought to be way worse than they actually are. SS is very much in a developmental stage right now where its trying to find its identity now that it doesnt have the spotlight. There really has not been a lot of trend changes since the end of gen8 outside of offense currently starting to get a bit more changeable so I am a little confused on why some of these teams are considered bad outside of some being a little more matchup fishy then others. Some of the team/set choices you mention of being "questionable" are either the normal "off meta" stuff people will bring to environments like SPL to catch people off guard or honestly things that aren't even that out there to begin with (wingbeat dnite).

I appreciate how much you obviously care for the tier and I do think your efforts will help this SS eventually take off considering you and a few others are driving the sub forum on your own, but calling people out for bad teams and shit play week after week when in reality its really not that deep is a really bad look. The games have just been fine, there's been some fun ones but nothing overly remarkable. There's not really anything that warrants the week after week super negative reaction. If somebody played poor, yeah go out there and say they played bad but I am sure you are also aware that you are over-reacting a good bit which is where it gets excessive. I think the analysis are nice to have and I hope you continue doing them but I just wanted to be honest with you.

yeah i understand a lot of this and i don't think its super unfair. i suppose it was probably a bit unfair to say there isn't any good support or the players clearly don't care about the tier, but at the end of the day I have strong opinions about SS and I see things that are to me clearly incorrect getting trotted out. I know dual wingbeat dragonite is a thing I just think it's a bad set. I would also like to note that if you recall not all my comments have been negative and in fact especially in weeks 1/2 I had mostly good things to say! I think this week I just kinda got very fed up and ended up coming across a lot more negative and somewhat toxic and that's honestly my bad. I intend to keep on making these recaps and I'll say what I have to say and express my strong opinions. If anyone wants to discuss why I think something in particular you can contact me directly or talk here or whatever you want and I'll be happy to explain my reasoning and feelings. for that matter if you just want to talk about anything in ss my smogon and discord (pulsiethedulsie) dms are always open if you want to discuss ss. this also goes for if you have a problem with me or don't like me - lets talk it out and get it resolved peacefully

(also this is a minor thing but tbh I do think there's been at least some degree of additional metagame development over time, although some of that might be more my personal realizations. hard to say).

 

[Baloor]

yeah i understand a lot of this and i don't think its super unfair. i suppose it was probably a bit unfair to say there isn't any good support or the players clearly don't care about the tier, but at the end of the day I have strong opinions about SS and I see things that are to me clearly incorrect getting trotted out. I know dual wingbeat dragonite is a thing I just think it's a bad set. I would also like to note that if you recall not all my comments have been negative and in fact especially in weeks 1/2 I had mostly good things to say! I think this week I just kinda got very fed up and ended up coming across a lot more negative and somewhat toxic and that's honestly my bad. I intend to keep on making these recaps and I'll say what I have to say and express my strong opinions. If anyone wants to discuss why I think something in particular you can contact me directly or talk here or whatever you want and I'll be happy to explain my reasoning and feelings. for that matter if you just want to talk about anything in ss my smogon and discord (pulsiethedulsie) dms are always open if you want to discuss ss. this also goes for if you have a problem with me or don't like me - lets talk it out and get it resolved peacefully

(also this is a minor thing but tbh I do think there's been at least some degree of additional metagame development over time, although some of that might be more my personal realizations. hard to say).

I don't really want to go back and forth but I think its just important to remember that negativity will leave more of a impression than positivity, even if its 1:1. Opinions also are not objectives and while opinions can be more "right" than others, everybody views things slightly differently, can't really discredit people just because their truth doesn't fall in line with yours. There's plenty of people who I completely disagree with that I would consider a better play than myself. To be honest, the teams being brought are also probably more reactionary to the opponent than intending to be super meta teams. This happens in older gens and big tours a lot. I can see this being part of the reason why these structures aren't falling in line with what you believe is good. There's so much more that goes into prep for these big tours than just using good team#191 9 times and the people playing are well aware of this, since well, they are playing in the biggest team tour on the site.

Not trying to undermine the positive things you've said or really anything about your character but like I mentioned, negativity is far more memorable than positivity and when you're being so intense it can be jarring and leave a bad impression (I know this all too well trust me). Like I said in my previous post if you think something was bad or somebody played poorly its fine, its your analysis after all, but its important to remember there's also a line where it just comes off as over the top and annoying.

 

[Eternal Spirit]

Do i get a compliment of you if i bring the 6 most boring overused mons over chad cune and zeraora? If so im considering to do it, just to have your very relevant pulsars seal of approval for once.

I appreciate your will to keep motivated to post every single week tho, this thread is doomed to death. Just try to make some more positive and productive analysis about general matchups and plays over your simple and polarized opinions about teambuilding. Every time i check a game you liked, some side lucked the shit out their opp. The teams are fine even: its SPL, you dont need a good team every week, you need a team that wins games and makes you have fun. I hope you get drafted once to feel the spirit, keep being around and do your best to show up.

 

[pulsar512b]

We should replace ss ou with something more showman like, maybe uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Randomized Pure Broken Balanced Hackmons VGC style sudden death 24 first blood heritage + pokeabilties + stabmons included

yeah, good shit indeed

lol.


(also more generally - i do want to say i wasnt able to put as much time into the last week's analysis as id like + will be taking this general feedback in advisement. i also do think that team tour teams should be Properly Good And Consistent teams [slanted towards the appropriate mu] every week but that is probably just be a philosophical difference.)

 

[igiveuponaname]

Maybe it's just that my knowledge of SS OU is mostly surface level (so I don't necessarily notice any team "flaws" or misplays as easily) but I still find these games to generally be the most enjoyable to watch and the ones I look forward to seeing most each week.

 

[pulsar512b]

Week 6
[TIG] Eternal Spirit vs TDNT [WOL]
TDNT brought a stall that looks pretty good. Eternal Spirit brought a team that sort of just doesn't have the breaking power for this matchup and lost. I think ES's team looks worse than it was, but I'm still not a dual wingbeat dd dnite fan and I'm slightly disappointed. At least it doesn't look like something I instantly recognize which gives some points.
[TYR] damien the genius vs Attribute [SHA]
Good offense mirror, both teams brought seem pretty alright if not remarkable. Sub Volc is very good rn, and we get to see it punish a flame body heatran pretty hard. I think as time goes on people are going to start using more volc due to this trend away from flash fire, prompting a return to flash fire and so on.
[BIG] 3d vs Hayburner [SCO]
3d's team is very interesting - I don't know quite how to feel but I think it's ultimately mostly positive. Game was super close and super interesting, and the endgame is super tricky - maybe there was some line for 3d to get there, but it's tough especially under any pressure at all. In any case, some unfortunate hax happens to steal a win from Hayburner. This was the best game this week, regardless.
[CLA] MichaelderBeste2 vs Jytcampbell [RUI]
An offense from Jyt (German - melm/shifu + Clef/tran) and a somewhat bulkier team from Michael. I think this was a good game, that exhibited how fucked up pult is. pult suspect when??? im also not sure about taking the pult speed tie on turn 47 for either side - I think both pults in this position are too good to risk. I can't really blame either player though, especially considering that it seems both were timid. Typically, I think pult speed ties should be taken if you're timid but not if you're modest. Nature power tran was neat too I suppose.
[CRY] Luigi vs DAHLI [RAI]
Luigi brought a similar sand to W2 and got punished. I also think he misplayed some with being so careless with Zapdos's health, but that was a very tough position facing down a DD Mew. DAHLI did good to bring a team that could punish sand like this, although I feel like I would choose something that wasn't an HO. IDK if DAHLI is an SS player and if they don't know SS too well going w an HO could make more sense. Probably they were actually trying to target something else, while perhaps hedging for sand. That seems like the most rational conclusion.


Overall:
Week 6's games were pretty good, although as usual I would like to see a bit more experimentation in the builder and less re-use. I will say personally that the reason this was so delayed is because I had midterms and then immediately fell ill last week, so fell behind. I'll post Week 7 probably later tonight or tomorrow. ​

 

[TPH]

im also not sure about taking the pult speed tie on turn 47 for either side

I was gonna write my own post for w6 and actually had it drafted before you posted. I remember putting that down as a point initially but I think it was objectively the right play. The only other play jyt has is zapdos but thats also bad as pult just clicks shadow ball and you either roost and sack a mon or volt out to clef which forces you to switch into the incoming tran again. Not ideal. Michael also loses on the spot if his pult dies and is forced to risk the tie, meaning jyt just wins 50% of the time on the spot. Especially as the pult can't really come in on anything else safely. Massive props to jyt as well for t31-41 where he got from 67 to full on lando through doubling in a mu where he had absolutrly no pult switch in besides it, v well played. Overall, great game and my personal game of the week.

 

[pulsar512b]

I was gonna write my own post for w6 and actually had it drafted before you posted. I remember putting that down as a point initially but I think it was objectively the right play. The only other play jyt has is zapdos but thats also bad as pult just clicks shadow ball and you either roost and sack a mon or volt out to clef which forces you to switch into the incoming tran again. Not ideal. Michael also loses on the spot if his pult dies and is forced to risk the tie, meaning jyt just wins 50% of the time on the spot. Especially as the pult can't really come in on anything else safely. Massive props to jyt as well for t31-41 where he got from 67 to full on lando through doubling in a mu where he had absolutrly no pult switch in besides it, v well played. Overall, great game and my personal game of the week.

yeah this is good analysis and I think it's a really interesting spot (as is the Hayburner v 3d endgame) to analyze and think about (which is all you can ask for a game haha). I think I personally prefer 3d vs hayburner but this was probably the second-best game of the week

 

[DYM]

I was gonna write my own post for w6 and actually had it drafted before you posted. I remember putting that down as a point initially but I think it was objectively the right play. The only other play jyt has is zapdos but thats also bad as pult just clicks shadow ball and you either roost and sack a mon or volt out to clef which forces you to switch into the incoming tran again. Not ideal. Michael also loses on the spot if his pult dies and is forced to risk the tie, meaning jyt just wins 50% of the time on the spot. Especially as the pult can't really come in on anything else safely. Massive props to jyt as well for t31-41 where he got from 67 to full on lando through doubling in a mu where he had absolutrly no pult switch in besides it, v well played. Overall, great game and my personal game of the week.

Yeah I agree. At first I thought he should go clef and get rocks however letting tran in would be horrible for Jyt so nicely done.

 

[pulsar512b]

Returning from my hiatus as I get a bit more time. As I catch up I'll probably be giving slightly shorter breakdowns of each week so I can get through them quicker especially considering I want to spend more time on the playoffs - hopefully y'all understand
Week 7
[WOL] TDNT vs DAHLI [RAI]
HAIL THE HAIL TEAM
Unfortunately, loading into sand w/ excadrill is often pretty difficult for hail to overcome, and the existence of an actual check to their Arctozolt set in Buzzwole spelled doom for DAHLI. I like the sand team a lot too - Volcanion is a neat bring with solid synergy with Excadrill.
[RUI] Jytcampbell vs Luigi [CRY]
Jyt brought a stall that seems reasonably normal. Luigi's team is far more interesting - I generally think these lando/bro structures are really hard to make work a lot of the time due to the inherent weaknesses to pult and grasses. This team addresses the latter well with buzzwole (which also helps to patche up the slightly-concerning shifu mu) although it is flawed due to it's tendency to sometimes be a bit of a momentum sap when you are clearly trying to make a lot of momentum. Heatran, however, is a bit of a questionable check to pult. I know zeraora can revenge pult but i still think it's a bit questionable especially as the team doesn't really support zeraora too well IMO. Nidoking is cool but I think this team just has some fundamental issues and is maybe just trying too hard to do neat and innovative things and is sacrificing stabiility. Maybe it's fine but I think the momentum sapping that Heatran and Buzzwole do really makes me a bit concerned about this team. I've observed over time that these offenses even w/ fs support often struggle to beat stalls that adapted with Light Screen which is interesting - it's possible that you're supposed to move in the direction of running stall-crushers such as specs Lele to hedge for that matchup especially with them often being huge offensive threats that fit naturally on offense.
[SCO] Hayburner vs MichaelderBeste2 [CLA]
Classic offense battle - mdb brought german offense while Hayburner brought a cooler offense that illustrated some lesser-used ways to handle pult such as slowking being able to take a hit once and moltres-galar being able to punish pult. I think this game was pretty good and illustrates the power of pult pretty well too as you see why Lando and Melm are somewhat questionable pult checks.
[SHA] Attribute vs 3d [BIG]
Adore both player's teams - these are good looking offenses. I don't love the clef on attribute's team but honestly it makes a lot of sense on the structure so I'll let it pass :). Earthquake Blaziken is a cool idea - being able to hit pex better is a really important thing and the general neutral coverage vs threats such as the slowtwins and pult is also relevant. Definitely something to look out for in the future and to incorporate into your own teambuilding.
[TIG] Eternal Spirit vs damien the genius [TYR]
Stall got there - damien definitely played a bit sloppy in some parts but got there in the end. I don't know if eternal spirit's team was exactly bad at breaking stall but it didn't seem like the matchup was that great.​

Overview
This week was quite good quality, striking an impressive balance between quality and experimentation. This might be the best week yet that I've reviewed, and although there was a bit of re-use I think it was at a perfectly acceptable level.​

 

[SetsuSetsuna]

Finally done watching all games. I thought all games were pretty enjoyable. The ones that dragged on were either a fun watch or just had me waiting for a Pokemon to come in safely and start breaking, which they did when they finally got a chance to.

My favorite game by far

vs
TDNT vs 3d​

3 Attacks Melmetal making progress against Corviknight teams is always fun; sucks a bit that those interactions ended with a crit but TDNT did a good job chipping at Corviknight throughout early turns so he might had been able to break later on, the part that sucks is not being able to watch that. 3d likewise had a chance to open up the team everytime Weavile got in, but TDNT managed to play around it with Melmetal and Buzzwole; also sucks that 3d missed 2 hits of Triple Axel vs Buzzwole. If you just want fun moments this game also has TDNT going hard Dragapult on Blacephalon.

My favorite team

Garay Oak semifinals team​

There had been no Bisharp until this game, and it did pretty well here. I like Bisharp on these kinds of BO, instead of forcing it into a HO or Koko Spikes where it feels like it doesnt get many chances to come in nor has a strong defensive backbone to fall on. Here instead it has Future Sight support, as well as Slowking's Teleport, Landorus-T's U-turn and I assume Dragapult's U-turn and Zapdos's Volt Switch so it gets to come in a lot. Even then you are not over-relying on it to break through cause you also have Dragapult.

Where are they?

​

Victini didnt show up at all, as offensive hazard stack teams opted for Pokemon like Heatran instead, while BO have switched around and cores such as Garchomp Clefable Ferrothorn Tornadus-T instead opt to run the likes of Slowking-Galar, Slowbro, or Rotom-W. Crawdaunt, Aegislash and Regieleki also nowhere to be seen; the latter can be pretty inconsistent and the former 2 were already a rare sight last year and throughout the year, yet it still feels off to see them at absolutely 0 usage. Rain only showed up once and at a point the team using it was out of the tournament. While Mew showed up twice, it was with SD and DD sets, while lead Mew saw no play

Boots + Magic Guard Hazard Stacks

its a bit hard to draw the line on what teams count towards this, but I will persnally count 8. Out of those 8, 5 of them lost, 2 of them won against opposing teams with the similar structure, and the other win happened in a really weird game.

• These teams usually dont fit a Ghost resist and instead rely on Protect, Gastrodon, Hippowdon, and the bulk of Pokemon like Dragonite and Heatran to take them on for a bit.
• Toxic / Will-O-Wisp Heatran can be really annoying for some of them, specially the offensive ones lacking a cleric like Aromatherapy Clefable, and that instead rely on Dragonite and Landorus-T to keep Heatran in check.
• Breakers such as Pads Kartana feel like a dead sentence against bulky variants with Skarmory and/or Gastrodon, while more offensive variants may have to allow Kartana to Knock Off Dragonite or try to go hard Tapu Koko on Sacred Sword or SD.
• In the ditto in particular, Reuniclus was able to beat down opposing hazard stacks without Reuniclus, as Knock Off lets it remove Heavy-Duty Boots and Leftovers from Heatran, Landorus-T, Dragonite to name a few, while Calm Mind + Psyshock lets it break pass Clefable, Tapu Koko, Toxapex.

There are further issues with these teams such as the ability of strong Knock Off users like Choice Band / Life Orb Weavile, Bisharp and Crawdaunt to open them up, but list feels like a good summary of the games played.

Mini breakdown of those 8 games

W vs : L
Joya's Koko fainted to double Moonblast crit. NP Tornadus-t didnt get a chance to make progress cause of Tapu Koko. Aromatherapy Clefable + Hippowdon negated progress from Tapu Koko. Reuniclus Knock Off was a big progress maker imo.

L
Landorus missed Stoned Edge against Tornadus-T which would have otherwise killed and kept 1 Spike up more throughout the game, as well as let Lando not have to take 1 extra Hurricane. Regardless with Landorus-T chipped and Heatran tricked a Black Sludge, rest of the team was picked up by Slowking-Galar, even with 3d being extra careful of not letting it take an Earthquake from Dragonite.

L
Heatran missed Will-O-Wisp vs Dragonite super early. Heatran is a big nightmare, and with Dragonite being afraid of it and Landorus-T chipped, then it forced progress everytime it was in. 3d's CM Clef could have also pressured a lot had Heatran gotten Knocked Off.

L
Pressured too much by Future Sight + Kartana. Skarmory took a Future Sight and from there the game spiraled. It got a bit closer towards the end only cause of a stay in with Toxapex vs Landorus-T that bought some turns.

W vs L
Reuniclus won the matchup once again. It was given the chance to brawl with Heatran and win that exchange. Dragonite got hard walled by Skarmory, not much to do. Aromatherapy Clefable + Hippo once again stopping progress vs Tapu Koko

W
Tornadus-T was sacked to Weavile even though Skarmory was at full. Tapu Koko put itself into Scald + burn range after U-turn on Garchomp, so the game could have been lost even there had Tapu Fini clicked Scald as Tapu Koko hard switched into it. Weavile and Ferrothorn were sacked asap. Garchomp avoided Toxic which would have made the matchup even rougher.

Haw a good time watching overall. TDNT is super fun to watch. 3d's and Michael's games were also pretty fun for one reason or another. Hyper Beam Polteageist was likely the funniest thing. Teleport Magnezone was cool. Tornadus-T taking 46 from Smart Strike in 3d vs Hayburner was insane for me, I didnt even realize that happened until 3d pointed it out, I totally thought that was always a 2HKO lol

 

[badabing]

totally agree this gen is amazing, great games all around