With UUWC basically over now and shifts approaching, I felt now would be the best time to make a VR post giving some nominations based on metagame developments I've seen over the last few weeks. I'll also be responding to the discussion points Hilo put out as well.
Discussion Points
(A+ to A):
Agree
Lycanroc has seen better days. I agree with the sentiment that it struggles a bit more in the current meta with the continuously growing trends of rotom-w, defensive Kommo-o, buzzwole, celesteela, and choice scarf jirachi. One thing about Lycanroc I really don't like is the fact it kills itself extremely quickly. Between hazards and LO recoil, lycanroc isn't around for long. This makes lycanroc extremely prediction reliant and can be punished for clicking the wrong move and losing 12% health. Still a great wallbreaker and cleaner, but its unreliability in a battle and lesser need to use it with thundurus gone makes it better suited for A rank.
(A+ to A):
Slightly Disagree
While I don't think salamence should drop, I certainly can understand why it's being brought up. Kommo-o has usurped it as the best dragon-type in the tier, being a reliable rocker and setup sweeper. DD mence sucks now with rotom-wash, primarina, and celesteela being great, and defensive sets are never seen outside of stall teams which is meh right now. Still, I think Salamence should maintain an A+ ranking based on its special attacking set. STABs + Flamethrower is hella tough to switch into over long periods of time. Plus, mence's great defensive utility makes it more than just a wallbreaker, its ability to check pokemon like keldeo and zarude in addition to beating common staples like the grasses and kommo-o makes it still very good. It's one of the better defoggers, offensively checking setters like roserade and krookodile. Salamence is still an excellent glue mon and wallbreaker in the tier, and I think it's worth keeping in A+.
(A to A+):
100% agree
I'm genuinely surprised this nomination hasn't come up before Hilo put it as a discussion point. I consider rotom-wash to easily be a top 10 Pokemon in the tier, it synergizes with so many Pokemon forming defensive and VoltTurn cores. Its typing is amazing and it provides lots of utility between will-o-wisp, volt switch, and defog. It's very unpredictable too, with choice scarf sets needing to be scouted for these days otherwise it gets a free trick onto your defensive Pokemon. It got a lot of usage in week 1 SCL as well as UUWC. Rotom-wash is the definition of consistent in UnderUsed, and I think it deserves a rise to A+ to reflect its status in the metagame.
(A- to A+):
Agree
Buzzwole should definitely rise past A to A+. Its potential is finally being realized here, bulky offensive sets have found their way onto many teams, synergizing with great picks like Roserade and chansey. It's a stupidly good wallbreaker with its 3 attacks roost set, and very little can switch into it. I've been running ice punch> stone edge on my webs team to hit amoonguss since moltres and rotom-h are down bad right now and it works like wonders. It checks nearly all our physical attackers, it's gotten used a lot in SCL both weeks, and just is a strong pick in the metagame right now. It sucks to see him go, but I say it should rise to A+ as a send off for its strong position in the tier.
(A- to B+):
Strongly Disagree
What?
If anything Galarian Moltres is closer to rising to A than dropping to B+. RestTalk Goltres is an amazing glue in the tier, checking tier king aegislash as well as other Pokemon like amoonguss, Kommo-o, and galarian slowbro. It never dies when used properly, and even though Nasty Plot sets have fallen off they still make a powerful wincon. Galarain Moltres's ability to continuously check top threats, absorb status, and even wallbreak a bit with its Berserk boosts makes it very strong in the metagame right now. It should not drop and if anything I think it should rise to A to reflect it being a real threat in the UU metagame.
(B to higher):
Strongly Agree
I think Roserade should be ranked
much higher at A- rather than the B ranks. Rose has been making waves in SCL as a premier grass-type in UU, enjoying the ban of thundurus more than many. Spikes are broken and it can lay them for days, it can check many big threats like amoonguss, primarina, washer, tangrowth, and even zarude with bulky variants. It's also very diverse in what it can run. Stun spore, aromatherapy, sleep powder, synthesis, and even shadow ball have all been used, alongside different EVs spreads investing in either offenses or bulk. Roserade has taken off in usage and is no longer something you can ignore. I think A- is appropriate for now, though if someone says it could be even higher I wouldn't disagree with them.
vs
I think the nidos are fine where they are personally and wouldn't rise nor drop either of them. Nidoking is better to me because it fulfills the role of what the nidos do, it's a wallbreaker and a better one at that due to its higher offenses and speed. Nidoking doesn't struggle to choose its nature at all, modest should always be run. You only speed tie with an offensive Kommo-o and it probably eats a hit and KOs you anyway so the speed isn't worth it. Yes Nidoqueen has better bulk, but it wasn't exactly taking hits too well with its lack of recovery and is vulnerable to being outsped by threats like modest necrozma and max speed adamant buzzwole. Nidoqueen works as decent role compression as a breaker and entry hazard setter, but I'm almost always wanting something like nihilego, kommo-o, or krook as my rocker instead. Overall, if you want a breaker, use Nidoking due to its better speed and offense. If you want an offensive rocker, use nihilego or clanger over queen personally. Queen is decent role compression, but its meh bulk and speed makes it outclassed at what it wants to do and should stay ranked at B. Meanwhile, Nidoking should remain B+ to reflect it is a powerful wallbreaker, albeit with lacking defensive utility and reliant on pivoting support to get in.
(C to higher):
Sure
Torn is ok, it's a decent pivot that was used in SCL week 1 but I don't think it's anything too crazy. Its only good set is the acrobatics set but then you're running a mon that is rocks weak in a tier with ass hazard removal.
I would be fine putting it higher at B-, but anything higher is too much.
My own nominations/ Nominations I agree with
to A+
I think Celesteela is legit amazing right now and is the best it has been since DLC 2 started. It's just so fat and it walls tons of Pokemon in the tier like aegislash and zarude with its great defensive typing. It never dies, and somehow is always above 70% even with the unreliable leech seed as recovery. It's gotten used tons over both weeks of SCL as a reliable defensive steel. While it does have shortcomings against powerful wallbreakers, its ability to synergize with other top threats like buzzwole, kommo-o, or tangrowth makes it incredibly irritating to face. I might be overhyping it but Celesteela should definitely get more discussion on rising to A+ in the future.
to A-
This is a controversial nomination, but when looking at the A rank azumarill sticks out like a sore thumb. It's gotten little usage in tours, only being used 3 times in the pools stage of UUWC and not used in qualifiers or final stages. Fucking flygon got more usage than this. It's a slow wallbreaker with only ok defensive utility, it limits your team to not using another water or fairy type, and faces severe competition from primarina and keldeo as waters. When I look at the A rank, I see consistent and splashable pokemon. Azumarill doesn't fit this one bit, and should drop down to A- to reflect that it isn't as good as we thought it was. An A rank Pokemon shouldn't have this little usage in tours. Hell, I think other Pokemon in A- that shouldn't rise like chansey, mienshao, and even gyarados are all better than azumarill right now, helping my case of warranting a drop.
to B+,
and
to B-
Another controversial nomination I think rain is meh. It's hella inconsistent and a matchup fish if anything else. It only pops off against hyper offense teams which are alright in the current metagame. It hasn't gotten any meaningful usage in tours because of its inconsistency, and doesn't fit in the A ranks anymore. Pelipper dropping reflects rain isn't all that. Similarly, both crawdaunt and kingdra rose because of rain, and now that it's not that great they both should drop a subrank to reflect their lack of usage and inconsistency.
to B+
I still think this is pretty mid right now, washer is jesus and top picks like nihilego, chansey, AV glowbro, keldeo, and lycanroc have persisted. It's a decent check to the grasses and aegi, but I'd rather run washer and have teammates like Salamence that can beat these than use rotom-H. I already nominated this before and it didn't drop but hey might as well try again and possibly spark some more discussion, not too bothered if it remains at A- again.
to A-/A
Speaking of previously made nominations, I agree thundurus-T should rise to A- at least, maybe even A but that's probably a bit too much. I initially thought pivot thundurus-t would be meh, it has a very vulnerable speed tier against threats like Nihilego, zarude, and keldeo that its counterpart did not have. However, I was surprised. It's a great pivot that has been showcased in SCL, sporting great power and an unpredictable movepool that lets it dominate in games. Its worked great in my own tests as well on VoltTurn offense teams. Thundurus-T is no longer in the shadow of its counterpart and should rise to A-/A to reflect its new and more realized niche right now.
to B+
This guy has been B+ material for like the last 3 months already but maybe VR will finally give it a shot now that Azef’s pivot set has taken off in thundurus's absence. Its speed tier is elite and has great coverage that lets it 2HKO most of the metagame. It's been showcased on two samples now, and even players who used to not like it (cough cough
Estarossa ) now acknowledge its viability. I don't want to get radical and whatnot but I'm going to be surprised if azelf doesn't rise considering its usage has been growing in tours, its niche has been more defined, and people continually support a rise in this thread. I'm realizing this now that I'm sounding like
KM that time he was upset about guzzlord being unranked but I somewhat believe that those who think azelf is bad have just never used it properly. Come on, it’s a good mon, and certainly distinguishes itself from the Pokemon in B to be ranked at B+.
to B+
Shouldn't have dropped to begin with. SD sets tear the tier a new one with nothing able to switch into it. Choice scarf sets are decent too. I don't have much to say, read
Bandkrook's post on it for more, and raise Diggersby.
to C+
Webs have been very consistent on the ladder with my sample doing well against common teams that are unprepared. Ribombee is the best setter due to it having an actual offensive presence and beating our hazard removers. Its ability to enable threats like SD aegislash, nasty plot azelf, diggersby, NP thundurus-t, and buzzwole is strong. Pretty simple here, Ribombee should rise to C+ to reflect the growing viability of webs in the tier.
to C
Sure, why not. I havent used it too much but its been shown to be pretty effective by this thread's posters. Its certainly a lot better than random shit in the C ranks like milotic, kelfki, and shuckle, so I don't see the harm in ranking sneasel.
to UR
I think Klefki is really bad atm. Prankster spikes are cool but its awful against our removers. Roserade outclasses it as a spiker on normal teams whereas froslass is a better pick on HO builds. I don't see a world where I'm using klefki over any of our other steel-types or spikers, and thus I don't think it should be ranked anymore (and no, imprison defog will never be good).
That's all, I hope this was a good read. I enjoyed this meta and am super excited for the upcoming tier shifts that will shake up this tier a lot.