Project SS UU Research Week - UU RESEARCH - Week 42 Roost Hydreigon and Any sets Crobat - New System !

OP adapted from eht's old research week thread | Hosted by KSt3ve | Banner by Pissog | Approved by A Cake Wearing A Hat and Sage

1644320469614.png


Art by Pissog
Welcome to the first edition of Sword and Shield UU Research Week! In this project, participants research suggested Pokemon every week and share their experience. Whoever has the highest ladder score at the end of the week will be declared the winner. For details, see below.

Keep the following things in mind during every Research Week:


  • Be open-minded. Don't just say something is terrible and walk away; look at its stats, typing and movepool and think something up!
  • Feel free to theorymon early in the research period, but make it clear you're doing so. Later in the period, however, you will be expected to back up your posts with hard evidence like logs, actual sets, and perhaps even teams.
  • Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's very likely that something has gone unnoticed.
  • Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon or movesets we choose and / or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. Feel free to VM / PM us these suggestions, but don't expect us to always accept them.
The halls of the long-awaited, under-construction Smogon UU Research Wing have finally opened up to the public! Researchers, professors, and Pokemon UU Masters are all needed to create a diversified UU Research establishment! All members are encouraged to contribute to the new Research Weeks posted here for a chance to earn points and move up the UU Research Wing hierarchy! Every research post you make earns points, not just winning the week, so you can now contribute in any way you wish without being constrained by "rules" and "laddering" and "research alts" (though those are all still encouraged).

Here is a rundown in list format:



Congratulations to HydreigonTheChild on winning the week! For your great post, win, and contributions, you have been awarded 5 + 10 points! Other points recipients: Noxey with +5 points hariyana grande with +15 points

(For information on how to maximize your points, see this post: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...and-crawdaunt-new-system.3660085/post-9117819 ) Noxey has over 25 total points and has been promoted to be a RESEARCH ASSISTANT!!!!
Congrats!!!!

UPDATED RESEARCH WING:

The UU Research Wing

Dean of Education: KSt3ve
Dean of Development: BigFatMantis

Honorary Deans of Science and Technology (400 points):
(n/a)

Faculty Department Heads (200 points):
(n/a)

Tenured Professors (100 points):
(n/a)

Adjunct Faculty (50 points):
(n/a)

Research Assistant (25 points):

Noxey (30)​



Points system:

  • Posting any Research Week findings post: +5 points
  • "Winning" Research Week (i.e. getting the highest ladder score with your research alt during the week): +10 points
  • Making an "exemplary effort post" (contains detailed set, description, pros, cons, good teammates, and findings supported by several replays): +10 points
  • Insightful Commentary on another Researcher's post (not just a one-liner, but something meaningful, at least 5 sentences, use of their actual team/set w/ a replay encouraged): +5 points (can only get this +5 bonus once per week, so does not stack if you respond to 10 different people)

So if you get a "perfect week" you could potentially get +30 points right away! But no matter what, as long as you keep participating, you will always keep moving up! (note: all other aspects of Research Week are the same as they have always been, the basic structure is unchanged)

Good luck to all aspiring professors, researchers, faculty, and test tube revolutionaries! The new week will be up in a couple days or less or more.

A few things to clarify:

  • Sign-ups can be as late as you want, but the week will always end on Sunday.
  • Early period means the first three days of the Research Week, so let's keep the theorymonning to a minimum after this period. The late period refers to the last four days of the research week, where raw evidence and discussion should become the basis of the thread.
  • Discussion is mandatory in order to be considered as a winner of Research Week. If you do not post one somewhat-coherent post that describes the Pokemon that you're using, their roles, and their niche in the metagame, you will be disqualified from winning this week. Please post about your experiences regardless of whether you think you've got a chance to win or not, we appreciate it!
  • Finally, I'd like to implore you to all please remember to post and save your replays. Often, these replays are the most informative sources of information about RW Pokemon - you can write a full two paragraphs about the role of a Pokemon, but often that can all be summed up with a video and an explanation of it. How useful are these Pokemon in SS UU? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon? How well do they work in the metagame? If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them! Remember, discussion is not limited to this topic, you are encouraged to talk about these Pokemon in the UU chat on Pokemon Showdown, in the official UU Discord, and in the Viability Ranking Thread.


Hydreigon
Ability: Levitate
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
-
-
-



Crobat
Ability: any
IVs: 0 Atk
-
-
-
-


We decided to choose hydreigon roost non lock at first. We know the strength of the scarf sets and specs of hydreigon and so we wanted to see the strength of hydreigon, both on offense and defense, roost allowing it to last much longer.
In a second step, we chose crobat, a very fast pokemon with access to many support moves like defog, haze, toxic ... but also to uturn, very useful with its very high speed statistic.


INTRO: (write a little blurb here, w/e you want)

Moltres

:ss/Moltres:

SETS USED:

Moltres @ z
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: x
x Nature
-
-
-
-

(Any other sets used, list those too)

SUMMARY: (include good cores, good matchups, bad matchups, etc.)

NOTABLE REPLAYS:
(link) - (add commentary, such as: "See here how Moltres shows it is the bravest bird")
(link) - (add commentary, e.g. "Here Moltres fails to be anything more than fried chicken")
(more replays - put as many as are relevant!)

CONCLUSION: (final thoughts)

OVERALL RATING: (w/e you want, D through S is standard but you can use whatever scale you prefer)
-
:ss/Nidoqueen:

SETS USED:

Nidoqueen @ z
Ability: x
EVs: x
x Nature
-
-
-
-

(Any other sets used, list those too)

SUMMARY: (include good cores, good matchups, bad matchups, etc.)

NOTABLE REPLAYS:
(link) - (add commentary, such as: "See here how Nidoqueen ascends to the throne")
(link) - (add commentary, e.g. "Here Nidoqueen has truly abdicated the crown")
(more replays - put as many as are relevant!)

CONCLUSION: (final thoughts)

OVERALL RATING: (w/e you want, D through S is standard but you can use whatever scale you prefer)



In order to participate you must do the following:

Post here with a fresh RW alt (such as SSRW42 ILY RW!!!! or SSRW42 FU RW!!!!) and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!
Post logs of this Pokemon in action against other teams - don't just tell us, show us
The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown UU ladder with their RW alt at the time the challenge ends. Winners will also receive a permanent spot in this thread's Hall of Fame.
This week will end on March 22 at 11:59 PM GMT+0. Have fun everyone!!

(EDIT: also if you have any suggestions on how we can improve Research Week, feel free to message BigFatMantis or KSt3ve )
 
Last edited:
Hall of Fame formatting:
Winner: [name of the winner]
[Pokemon of said week]

Hall of Fame ★
Winner: Lilburr
Toxicroak @ Any Item
Ability:
EVs:
-
-
-
-
Rotom @ Any Item
Ability:
EVs:
-
-
-
-
Winner: Critsomnia
Silvally-Steel @ Steel Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs:
- Defog
-
-
-
Vikavolt @ any item
Ability: Levitate
EVs:
-
-
-
-
Winner: A Cake Wearing A Hat
Celebi @ any item
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs:
- Stealth Rock
-
-
-
Cobalion @ any item
Ability: Justified
EVs:
- Swords Dance
- Rock Polish
-
-
Incineroar @ any item
Ability:
EVs:
-
-
-
-
Winner: Elias PSY
Toxtricity @ any item
Ability:
EVs:
-
-
-
-
Necrozma @ any item
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs:
- Swords Dance / Dragon Dance
-
-
-
Winner: Slowpoke92i
Runerigus @ any item
Ability: Wandering Spirit
EVs:
-
-
-
-
Araquanid @ any item
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs:
-Substitute
-Toxic
-
-
Winner: Eve
Whimsicott @ any item
Ability:
EVs:
-
-
-
-
Slurpuff @ any item
Ability:
EVs:
- Belly Drum
-
-
-
Winner: A Cake Wearing A Hat
Arcanine @ any item
Ability:
EVs:
- Teleport
-
-
-
Silvally-Ghost @ Ghost Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs:
-
-
-
-
Winner: fireblastmiss
Passimian @
Ability:
EVs :
-
-
-
-
Sigilyph @
Ability:
-
-
-
-
Winner: pokeisfun
Gastrodon @
Ability:
EVs:
-
-
-
-
Vileplume @
Ability:
EVs:
-
-
-
-
Winner: ???
Heliolisk @
Ability: Solar Power
EVs:
-
-
-
-
Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Close Combat
- Flash Cannon / Meteor Mash
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Punch / Extreme Speed
Winner: Panther-T
Copperajah @ Choice Band
Ability: any
EVs: any
-
-
-
-
Necrozma @ any item
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: any
- Stealth Rock
-
-
-
Winner: KSt3ve
Keldeo @ any item
Ability: any
EVs: any
-
-
-
-
Jellicent @ any item
Ability: any
EVs: any
-
-
-
-
Winner: Luirromen
Rillaboom @ any item
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: any
-
-
-
-
Pelipper @ any item
Ability: Not Drizzle
EVs: any
-
-
-
-
Winner: KSt3ve
Indeedee (M) @ any item
Ability: Psychic Surge
IVs: 0 Atk
- Expanding Force
-
-
-

Indeedee-F (F) @ any item
Ability: Psychic Surge
IVs: 0 Atk
- Expanding Force
-
-
-
Barraskewda
Ability: whatever they both suck ^^
- Flip Turn
-
-
-
Scyther @ any item
Ability: Technician
-
-
-
-
Winner: spuds4ever
Tyranitar @ any item
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: any
any Nature
- Stealth Rock
-
-
-
Jirachi @ any item
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: any
any Nature
-Calm Mind
-
-
-
Seismitoad @ any item
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: any
any Nature
-
-
-
-
Winner: KSt3ve
Dragalge @ any item
Ability: Adaptibility
EVs: any
any Nature
- Flip Turn
-
-
-
Hatterene @ any item
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: any
any Nature
-
-
-
-
Winner: KSt3ve
Porygon-Z @any item
Ability: any
EVs: any
any Nature
-
-
-
-
Starmie @ any item
Ability: any
EVs: any
any Nature
-
-
-
-
Winner: Codsauce
Mudsdale @ any item
Ability: Stamina
EVs: any
any Nature
-
-
-
-
Tyranitar @ any item
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: any
any Nature
- Dragon Dance / Rock Polish
-
-
-
Winner: SuperGabiel
Zarude @ any item
Ability: Leaf Guard
EVs: any
any Nature
-
-
-
-
Slowbro @ any item
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: any
any Nature
-
-
-
-
Winner: KSt3ve
Kingdra @ any item
Ability: any
EVs: any
any Nature
-
-
-
-
Talonflame @ any item
Ability: any
EVs: any
any Nature
-
-
-
-
Winner: Codsauce
Slowbro-Galar @ any item
Ability: any
EVs: any
any Nature
-
-
-
-
Talonflame @ any item
Ability: Illusion
EVs: any
any Nature
-
-
-
-
Winner: BigFatMantis
Blacephalon @ any item
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: any
any Nature
-
-
-
-
Thundurus-Therian @ any item
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: any
any Nature
-
-
-
-
Hydreigon @ any item
Ability: Levitate
EVs: any
any Nature
-
-
-
-
Winner: Mystras Leoxses
Tapu Bulu @ any item
Ability: any
EVs: any
any Nature
Nature's Madness
-
-
-
Zeraora @ any item
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: any
any Nature
-
-
-
-
Winner: Mystras Leoxses
Latias @ Grassy Seed
Ability: Levitate
EVs: any
Bold Nature
-
-
-
-
Nidoqueen @ any item
Ability: any
EVs: any
any Nature
-
-
-
-
Winner: Galactiknight
Regieleki @ any item
Ability: Transistor
EVs: any
Bold Nature
-
-
-
-
Conkeldurr @ any item
Ability: any
EVs: any
any Nature
-
-
-
-
Winner: Amane Misa
Thundurus (M)
Ability: Any
Evs : Any
-
-
-
-
Victini @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Victory Star
Evs : Any
-
-
-
-
Winner: Aariz
Diggersby
Ability: Huge Power
- Mega Kick
-
-
-
Scizor
Ability: Technician
- Swords Dance
-
-
-
Winner: Aariz
Salamence
Ability: Moxie
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Dance
-
-
-
Keldeo-Resolute
Ability: Justified
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
-
-
-
Winner: Daiyaga
Nihilego @ any
Ability: Beast Boost
- Meteor Beam / Stealth Rock
-
-
-
Primarina @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Any
- Flip Turn
-
-
-
Winner: BigFatMantis
Azelf
Ability: Levitate
-
-
-
-
Winner: Rawbi
Aegislash @ Any
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: Any
Any Nature
-
-
-
-
Winner: The Damned
Moltres
Ability: any
EVs: Any
Any Nature
-
-
-
-
Buzzwole
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: Any
Any Nature
-
-
-
-
Winner: The Damned
Grimmsnarl (M)
Ability: Any
EVs: Any
Any Nature
- (NO SCREENS)
-
-
-
Tentacruel
Ability: Any
EVs: Any
Any Nature
-
-
-
-
Winner: Mystras Leoxses
Zygarde-10%
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: Any
Any Nature
-
-
-
-
Starmie
Ability: Any
EVs: Any
Any Nature
-
-
-
-
Winner: Mystras Leoxses
Togekiss
Ability: Any
EVs: Any
Any Nature
-
-
-
-
Rotom-Heat
Ability: Levitate
EVs: Any
Any Nature
- Nasty Plot
-
-
-
Winner: turtledoggo1
Nidoking
Ability: Any
EVs: Any
Any Nature
-
-
-
-
Winner: Mystras Leoxses
Mienshao @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs:any
any Nature
-
-
-
-
Necrozma @ Power Herb
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: any
any Nature
- Meteor Beam
-
-
-
Winner: Rawbi
Excadrill
Ability: Any
Evs : Any
-
-
-
-
Swampert
Ability: Any
Evs : Any
-
-
-
-
Winner: Rawbi
1643940297571.png


The Smogon UU Research Wing ★
(pending)
 
Last edited:
This Week's Selection
:toxicroak:
Toxicroak
Ability:
EVs:
Any Nature
-
-
-
-

:rotom:
Rotom
Ability:
EVs:
Any Nature
-
-
-
-


In this first week of Research Week, we're going a lot more open-ended in some unexplored pokemon that could potentially benefit a lot from the changes coming from Pokemon HOME.

The first pick is Toxicroak. It was an underrated pick earlier on in UU and the roles it can provide a team is very underexplored. As well as gaining the move Knock Off again, we thought it would be an interesting choice to see what its place in the UU metagame is.

Rotom was only used for its separate forms, specifically Rotom-Mow before it rose to OU. Now with it gaining Nasty Plot through the Sword and Shield games, and also its moves Defog and Toxic returning, will it solidify its place in the meta as a viable pokemon? Or will it continue to be overlooked due to its various other forms?

In order to participate you must do the following:

  • Post here with a fresh RW alt (such as SSRW1 Daiyaga or SSRW1 Cake) and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
  • Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
  • Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!
  • Post logs of this Pokemon in action against other teams - don't just tell us, show us
  • The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown UU ladder with their RW alt at the time the challenge ends. Winners will also receive a permanent spot in this thread's Hall of Fame.

Week 1 deadline: Sunday, February 23rd at 11:59 PM GMT -6
 
SSRW1blitznglitter (hope that's okay, I really want to use that pun :v )

both mons

used Hex Rotom a little bit already and while it's good at spreading burns, the lack of bulk means it gets worn down easily anyway. knock off's resurgence probably doesn't do this lad any favors. I'll try again anyway!
 

Lily

wouldn't that be fine, dear
is a Tutoris a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a member of the Battle Simulator Staffis a Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Senior Staff Member Alumnus
UU Leader
So it's been a few days since I started, and I'd like to report on my findings having played with both Rotom and Toxicroak. I know I said I'd originally be doing Rotom, but I ended up finding more success with Toxicroak and switched over to that.
Using a couple of teams that I pretty much just threw together in a few minutes, I managed to do fairly well on the ladder and as of right now am sitting at #30. I'll share the teams in the post, but honestly they're far from optimal and could easily be improved upon.

:ss/rotom:
I tried a few Rotom sets, and honestly, it was decent enough. Its defensive utility is genuinely quite good; its typing allows it to check quite a few problematic mons like Diggersby and Heliolisk. Unfortunately, its severe frailty made doing this consistently a nightmare, and its offenses are super lacking too - Nasty Plot doesn't make up for the nonexistent coverage. Defog sets were useful particularly vs Sticky Web because it has a decent-to-good matchup vs Ribombee, Araquanid and Vikavolt, and it can annoy all of our most relevant rockers, so it might have a niche there.

I used this set on a team based around Volt-Turn, to some decent success. It kept up momentum vs bulky water types that would often switch in on my Noivern and Inteleon, giving it a ton of opportunities to clear away hazards. The reason for 248 Speed evs is mainly so that you can underspeed opposing Rotoms since there's absolutely nothing else in the 91 Speed tier and the slow switch is always nice. My team didn't have a particularly consistent pivot into Heliolisk or opposing Diggersby so it was pretty nice to have this thing helping me out. It was good enough. It has my seal of apprehensive approval. I unfortunately didn't get any good replays to highlight its niche because it's not that spectacular of a mon but it was okay overall.

Now, on to the real star of the show...
:ss/toxicroak:
Toxicroak surprised me, but I lied a second ago. It was never really the star performer on the hyper-offense team I decided to try it on, but it came in clutch in countless games with its unique combination of a Water immunity and priority move. Sucker Punch revenged countless scarfers that would otherwise rip me to shreds and the Swords Dance-boosted attacks were terrifying in their own right, able to pretty much cleave through most teams lacking a Doublade or Hippowdon.

This replay shows Toxicroak pretty much single-handedly taking down a Trick Room-based team with hazards up because of its super strong STABs and Sucker Punch. This one shows off how good it is at taking advantage of bulky Water types to get setup opportunities and start punching its way through teams. Finally, this replay shows off Toxicroak pretty much dismantling a team with hazards up off the back of a bad play I made that just so happened to work out.
And these are just the games where it pretty much won 6-0. There were a ton of other games where it put in work, killed maybe 1-2 mons, traded with something that would've otherwise made me lose... it was just really good. I really enjoyed using it and think it's a super good mon in the tier even if it faces some competition from stuff like Lucario as a setup sweeper.

I didn't try out Nasty Plot sets. I'm sure they're pretty good, but I can see them running into coverage or speed issues depending on your move choices. This one gets the seal of approval without any apprehension. Great pick.

Overall, while I'm probably not done with laddering, I really enjoyed getting to work with both of these mons. They definitely have quantifiable niches within the tier, and I'm excited to see what other people manage to do with them that I can't quite pull off!!
 
Might as well post "early" as i'm not going to be able to ladder much more before the deadline. Been trying out physical Toxicroak and overall it's a fairly good UU mon. That's about it :) I'll explain myself:​
Toxi needs to set up to do deal big damage. It sets up pretty easily on fat waters who are everywhere in milotic, vaporeon, non-air slash mantine and i guess araquanid - better be safe around golisopod. Here's two replays of Toxicroak dealing damage after setting up on a fat water. Switching in on jellicent will get you burned. On a lot of teams Weezing galar/doublade/hippowdon are the main switch ins. They however take a lot of damage at +2 Attack. The set i've used is:​
1582397757189.png
Toxicroak @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Drain Punch
- Gunk Shot
- Swords Dance

Some calcs :​
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 236+ Def Weezing-Galar: 285-335 (85.3 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Black Sludge recovery​
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Earthquake vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 231-273 (72.4 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO​
You'll need chip on hippowdon to be able to 2HKO a mixed set; But given my team that's not a difficult task​
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 80+ Def Hippowdon: 204-242 (48.5 - 57.6%) -- 48.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery​
Give Toxicroak knock off if you want to give its teammates more support. Here's a replay of knock off bopping a shedinja shedinja faints
Overall at +2 not a lot of things like to switch in to toxicroak.​
big BUT: toxicroak does not take hits well, both its defenses sit at 65 bp. You will not be able to repeatedly switch it in so most of the time you only have few shots each game. If toxicroak is your main guy to deal big damage - you have to be smart going about it. In the 38 games ive played with it there where a couple of times where i rushed him in only to eat an ice beam from milotic and see its HP drop between 29.6 - 35.1%​
I think it's safe to say that a general rule for Toxicroak is: be smart about the way you bring it in​
About the team i used it in:
1582392245490.png

It does reasonably well on the ladder albeit I did not get into high ladder with the amount of matches i played
1582392151425.png


In short about the team:

I wanted to build around both durant and toxicroak. . Honestly Durant is just crazy good right now as everyone in the np SS UU Stage 1 thread have been saying https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/np-ss-uu-stage-1-here-comes-the-sun-dracozolt-banned.3658529/

The goal of this team is to have toxicroak deal as much damage as possible to the defensive backbone of the opponents team. Obviously to make it easier for Durant to plow trough. For durant i've used the following set (been changing it back and forth between superpower and thunder fang - settled for superpower since the rest of the team is enough to handle water types):

Durant @ Life Orb
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Superpower/thunder fang
- First Impression
- Iron Head
- Hone Claws

Sp.def swords dance invensted Rhyperior is the rocker. It forms a nice defensive core with mantine and umbreon. Ive been using heal bell on umbreon as it helps the team go the distance and especially help mantine as most players try to put it on a timer by throwing toxic. The mantine i've ended up using is a 252HP 252Def Bold one :) Main reason are the 3 mons who are facing a ban: DiggersB, Durant and Weavile. It takes the hits pretty well and if your opp does not want to risk the scald burn they'll switch out.

Scarf gardevoir is my speed control. It has healing wish to help whenever necessary.
i'll pokepaste the team if anyone wants to give it a try.

The 4 replays i've saved:
vs shedinja
vs durant and haxorus
vs araquanid
vs weezing galar


I've tried Special Toxicroak too but i'm going to leave the extended evaluation of that one to someone else. In short i found it a good lure.

Rotom did not do enough for my liking =)
 
I had something written and it deleted so I'm just going to make a short post cos I honestly didn't enjoy using either Mons. This is mainly due to how the tier currently is more so than the Mons, though Rotom is ass. I had a pretty good run with like 25-2 then Diggersby hit me several times and it went downhill from there :blobshrug:

Rotom:
  • Absolute Trash
Toxicroak:
  • Punishes the bulky Water-types still, especially with a lot of them opting to drop coverage for Toxic now.
  • It got Knock Off back in Home and it helps it immediately punish its switchins, most notably Doublade. You do sometimes wish you had Sucker tho because not hitting Helio or Hax as it comes in to revenge kill sucks.
  • It finds few opportunities to set up other than on the Water-types it can sit on, which left me clicking buttons against most other matchups in order to not lose momentum.
  • It's rather slow in this metagame, which leaves it reliant on priority. Nasty Plot sets are pretty nice despite having to rely on Focus Blast, however, it still has 4MSS where it has to drop Vacuum for Dark Pulse to hit Doub and Chand.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1065219819

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1064746067
 
Played a bit with both mons, almost made it to 1400, got omega tilted and fell back to like 1320 so I'm definitely not winning this one lul. Want to post the teams I used at least.

ribbit
bzzrt

My feelings on Rotom remain the same. Great typing, nowhere near enough stats to really abuse it. Scarf outspeeds an enormous amount of mons but 289 SpAtk means you're gonna have a hard time even revenge killing, and Electric and Ghost type moves are risky to lock into. I still think this is probably base Rotom's best set though, utilizing its unique speed tier.

I want to like Toxicroak, I really do, but it has a bad case of 4MSS. Like what Twilight said, having Knock Off to smack Doublade is good, but it's hard to give up priority on a relatively slow mon. It is good at taking advantage of Waters, but that's really the only time it has to set up.

These both feel like mediocre mons that do well in some aspects but also make me feel like I could be using something better in their places.
 

Estarossa

moo?
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Social Media Contributoris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Battle Simulator Moderator
C&C Leader
Played a decent bit with Rotom this week, haven't really played too much with Toxicroak so only going to post on Rotom. May edit in some comments on Toxicroak later if I feel like it. Edit: added some on SD Croak but not doing NP.

:rotom: Rotom :rotom:


For Rotom this week, I decided to try out two different sets to explore possible niches for it, both an offensive set making use of it gaining Nasty Plot, and a defensive Defog set.

:rotom: NP Willo + Hex :rotom:

Rotom @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Hex
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp


Teambuilding Process

This was really the first set I wanted to try, making use of its access to stab Hex, while being able to pivot in matchups against Pokemon like Umbreon, and ability to boost to break through Pokemon like rhyperior.

Offensive weezing was a great partner for this, being able to set Toxic Spikes and pressure common removers so that rotom can use Hex more often without needing to spread Burns. Fire Blast weezing can also help to make up for Rotom being annoyed by Durant/Escavalier.

Machamp was seemingly one of the best partners for this Rotom set, being able to take advantage of Rotom bringing in Umbreon on Volt Switch, helping to check Weavile with Bullet Punch, and breaking defensive cores so that Rotom could clean up during the late game. Vaporeon obviously paired well with these three being able to support weezing/machamp's longevity.

The last two slots really came down to supporting Rotom with dealing with Roserade, which is one of its biggest annoyances due to absorbing tspikes and natural cure clearing any potential burns, while providing defog/rocks. Noivern also provided a nice offensive check to Durant which could be annoying.

Thoughts and Comments

In general, there is quite a few issues that really stop Rotom being a reliable pick. One of the biggest issues for me is just simply the amount of team support that is required, to really do much work it wants Toxic Spikes support because it both doesn't have the bulk to and doesn't want to be spreading Burns while trying to break. It also needs Pokemon that can really handle Umbreon and Roserade for it, as they are some of its biggest counters and both very common, and these Pokemon have the longevity to be consistent issues. Multiple Toxic Spikes absorbers switch into it fairly ok too between Roserade and Drapion and can force it out. It also struggles versus Diggersby a lot, as while it can burn it, neither of its stab moves can hit it.

One of the nice things about Rotom however is that even in matchups where it's unable to really break because of these issues, it is still a servicable Pivot, as it can beat our Ground-types except for Diggersby, and can decently support teammates that punish Pokemon like Roserade/Umbreon.

In general I find it is a bit too matchup dependent and unreliable though, and if I just wanted a pivot I would rather go for an option like Noivern that can offensively check lots of threats like Lucario, Ninetales, Durant instead, and still bring in fat waters/rocks for options like Machamp and Roserade.


:rotom: Defog Rotom :rotom:

Rotom @ Leftovers / Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex


Teambuilding Process

So like for this I honestly asked my question, why would I use this over Defog Noivern if i Want a pivoting Defogger? Noivern being able to check lots of important stuff like Ninetales, Durant, Golisopod, Roserade etc for you in that slot seems invaluable compared to a Pokemon that somewhat checks Lucario and can put a little pressure on Reuniclus thanks to Hex.

Only answer I could actually come up with was so that I could use a different Noivern set, while keeping pivoting. This still seemed fairly unhelpful given that Noivern + Defog Weezing is an already excellent core most of the time, so I just built hoping to make use of this Volt Turn core Noivern and Rotom could give.


So yea I tried pairing Choice Specs Noivern with it, which could come in on the Roserade's brought in by Rotom, and form a nice VoltTurn core with it. Roserade paired nicely to offer Spikes support to help Noivern's breaking, and appreciates Noivern U-turning it into bulky Waters and Rhyp/Gigalith. Rhyperior covers the Noivern weakness currently present, and can offer Toxic support to wear down checks to the current Pokemon, and allow Rotom to fire off hexes more often potentially.

Escavalier offers an actual switch into Roserade should it come in on Rotom/Rhyp, and a soft check to Weavile. It can also Knock Off items to further the spikes damage, and help to pressure Umbreon, especially after Rotom has managed to burn it. Aromatisse finishes off the team with a much stronger Weavile answer, as well as a Haxorus answer, and can provide wish support to rotom/escavalier/rhyp/noivern in the absence of recovery, as well as Cleric support to help Escavalier/Rhyperior.

Thoughts and Comments

Ok so yea after playing with this for a bit, I honestly felt it never really did much compared to much more productive options such as Weezing or Mantine. It doesn't really offer much defensive utility, especially now Diggersby has regained Knock Off. This especially ends up being really awkward in the builder, with other options like Weezing providing you a valuable Fairy type and fighting-resist, or Mantine a bulky water etc. As you can obviously tell from the team above, I had to forgo actually using a bulky water, meaning Choice Specs Inteleon would be a nightmare because of this.

From a standalone point of view, it providing a Ghost type is nice for these sort of Hazard Stack teams so that it can spinblock, but in reality it really strugles at doing this due to its atrocious bulk, meaning it only really spinblocks Avalugg well, unless it runs Colbur Berry, but it still struggles to take attacks well even with this and removes any healing at all. It also providing a Lucario check is nice, but Lucario still does a lot of damage to you with its resisted Steel STABs, and special sets can just kill you with Dark Pulse, while you can't kill it back.

While it is an interesting option to give you pivoting + hazard removal in the same slot, I do just think it is heavily outclassed by other options like Noivern or Tsareena, which can bring in super relevant Pokemon like Rhyperior/Milotic for Noivern or Weezing for Tsareena for teammates to help break while checking a lot more important stuff indivividually, and having recovery in Noiverns case, while Rotom really struggles to pressure Waters unlike Tsareena, and Lucario unlike Noivern.

Replays

vs Marjane
vs Solonorrr



:toxicroak:Toxicroak :toxicroak:


Only tried SD Toxicroak so far, If I get to play with NP before deadline I will add some stuff here too on that.

:toxicroak: Swords Dance :toxicroak:

Toxicroak @ Black Sludge
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Drain Punch
- Gunk Shot
- Knock Off


Teambuilding Process

With this Toxicroak set, I really wanted to firstly get a few defensive teammates that could really cover some of its holes. Bronzong seemed like the best choice of stealth rock user, being able to help deal with the nasty Pyschic types that Toxicroak dislikes, especially without Sucker Punch. Aromatisse is an unusual option but provides one of the better defensive answers to Haxorus and Weavile around for the pair, due to the general dislike for them, and together with Bronzong can really help shore up issues with Noivern, and help to keep both of them healthy. Milotic gives a nice bulky water, second weavile answer, chandelure/rhyp/mamo check, and along with Bronzong can spread Toxic to help make Toxicroak's job easier, while also appreciating it Knocking items off stuff like Noivern for it. Haze is necessary here due to the annoying Doublade matchup otherwise.

I had to play around with these last two quite a bit to sufficiently get a result I actually wanted. I really wanted something that could help pressure Weezing more in the early game because Toxicroak can't take defensive sets out from full and is annoyed by offensive sets if it can be forced into not setting up, which it can struggle to get the opportunity to outside of against bulky waters, especially due to the risks it has SD'ing against an umbreon. I also desperately needed an answer to Polteageist and Lucario in most of the methods I tried, and eventually ended up resorting to using Defog Silvally-Dark along with Choice Specs Espeon. Defog Silvally-Dark is definitely an odd option but gives a nice Ghost resist, Knock Off switch in, and can pivot Espeon in on Weezing's that try to come in, while Espeon can help to pressure Weezing and Lucario (as long as it aint +2 espeed).

Thoughts and Comments

While it is a nice countermeasure versus Bulky water-types, I feel SD Toxicroak suffers from a general lack of initial power letting its checks such as Noivern come in very easily, relatively low speed, and 4mss that prevents it being able to run both Knock Off and Sucker Punch. I ended up choosing to use Knock Off because I felt just being able to cripple those switch ins like Noivern was more useful personally.

That said, it does a really good job of actually punishing the Bulky waters, and with Drain Punch and Black Sludge it has fairly decent longevity even if they do happen to still be running Ice Beam, despite a lot of them dropping it for Toxic now. As mentioned before, it does feel like it struggles to set up a lot of the time against much else though, as it's typing and bulk aren't amazing, and even setting up against Umbreon can be risky as Foul Play will do like 65%.

I would say as far as a Fighting-type that can deal with bulky Water-types well, I find Machamp generally more useful in this current meta, being able to immediately wallbreak, get through Weezing super easily, and access to Priority for Weavile letting it revenge kill it well. This immediate power also just lets it pressure Fighting-weak stuff like Rhyperior a lot better too, which Toxicroak really lacks the ability to especially with a weak Fighting STAB and being ground weak.


Replays

vs noscu
 
Last edited:
With that, week 1 of Research Week is over! Congratulation to Lilburr for winning this first week!

Rotom for most turned out to be disappointing. It was noted that it’s typing brought a lot of defensive utility to check common threats such as Heliolisk and Diggersby, but its lackluster stats caused it to be too frail and not strong enough to do the roles it was wanted to fill. It’s common sets were Defog, and Nasty Plot, along with Choice Scarf tested by Rawbi. Defog was useful as a general pivot into the bulky waters of the tier, being able to get safe removal versus these common pokemon. Nasty Plot required too much support as noted by Estarossa to break teams effectively, leaving as a pivot most games. Choice Scarf utilizes Rotom’s unique speed tier to outspeed common threats, but due to its lackluster offensive had a hard time securing kills. Overall, it will still be outshined by its other forms purely due to its lackluster stats.

Toxicroak was a mixed bag, but for most people it showed decent success. Due to its ability in Dry Skin it's able to switch in and deal with the common water types that are found on most teams. Though noted by Estarossa, and Twilight, without setup it starts out generally lacking in power. Due to its low speed as well, its common checks can come in and deal with it as it tries to set up, forcing it out quite easily. Another common complaint was its case of 4MSS. On Swords Dance sets, Toxicroak has to decide between Sucker Punch and Knock Off, which leaves it prone to being revenge killed or losing its ability to pressure defensive cores. Also its weak physical fighting move choices leaves pokemon like Rhyperior a much easier check before it sets up. Nasty Plot has the problem of relying on Focus Blast for power when the move has relatively low accuracy. It also has the same problem of choosing between Dark Pulse to hit ghosts, and Vacuum Wave to hit faster threats that would want to revenge kill it. Overall, it had decent success in being able to abuse common choices on defensive cores, but with overall weak starting power, speed, and its 4MSS, it leaves it lacking in some places.

Now to next weeks choices!

:ss/silvally-steel:
Silvally-Steel @ Steel Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs:
any Nature
- Defog
-
-
-

:ss/vikavolt:
Vikavolt @ any item
Ability: Levitate
EVs:
any Nature
-
-
-
-

Our first of the two choices is Silvally Steel! It has had a lot of its tools returned and now has a high chance of being one of the best forms of removal UU has. Another incredible buff it got was Multi-Attack being buffed to 120 Base Power, making it a very strong physical move with no drawbacks. With its decent bulk, decent speed, wide coverage, but a downside in lack of recovery, how will it preform? Will it return to the former glory it had in gen 7 UU as a defogger or turn out to be mediocore?

Our next pokemon has been brought to our attention by a few users of the UU community and that is Vikavolt! It's Bug and Electric STAB combination makes it a force to be reckoned with due to the limited checks, along with the general strong utility it brings with it's ability Levitate and its typing. Now with its form of recovery in Roost returning due to home, will it become one of the common special attackers of the tier, or will it fall flat due to its low speed?

In order to participate you must do the following:

  • Post here with a fresh RW alt (such as SSRW2 Daiyaga or SSRW2 Cake) and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
  • Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
  • Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!
  • Post logs of this Pokemon in action against other teams - don't just tell us, show us
  • The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown UU ladder with their RW alt at the time the challenge ends. Winners will also receive a permanent spot in this thread's Hall of Fame.

Week 2 deadline: Sunday March 1st at 11:59 PM GMT -6
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top