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Project SS UU Research Week - UU RESEARCH - Week 42 Roost Hydreigon and Any sets Crobat - New System !
- Thread starter KSt3ve
- Start date
After 50 games with Necrozma, then I can share my thoughts on this pokemon with you. Necrozma is an excellent poser of sr.
His good natural bulk combined with his talent makes him almost impossible to OHKO. It is an excellent lead in offensive teams because it allows to put direct pressure on the opposing team while putting the sr. I used this set :
Necrozma @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Photon Geyser
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Photon Geyser
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
With this team made by mind gaming : https://pokepast.es/852795fa84140299
Necrozma has a very good match up against classic leads like :
- Cobalion : 252 Atk Cobalion Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Necrozma: 102-120 (30.4 - 35.8%) -- 35% chance to 3HKO
VS
252+ SpA Necrozma Heat Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cobalion: 294-348 (91 - 107.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Cobalion never wins his 1v1, unless twave + iron head, and again ...
- Incineroar : 108+ Atk Incineroar Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Prism Armor Necrozma: 213-252 (63.5 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
VS
252+ SpA Necrozma Earth Power vs. 200 HP / 24 SpD Incineroar: 226-268 (59.3 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- Bronzong : 252+ SpA Necrozma Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 146-174 (43.1 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
- Flygon scarf : uturn allows you to activate your Weakness Policy and turn Necrozma into shaggy with 100% of its power.
- Darmanitan scarf : same as for flygon scarf + you tank flare blitz, but who use flare blitz turn 1 against necrozma lead ? (252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Necrozma: 267-315 (79.7 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)
- Rhyperior : 252+ SpA Necrozma Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 172 SpD Rhyperior: 220-261 (50.6 - 60.1%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery. Rhyperior simply dies after 2 Photon Geyser, either he places the sr, and we then kill the Rhyperior + our Necrozma is full life, or Necrozma takes 48.3 - 57.3% on Earthquake.
- Araquanid : 252+ SpA Necrozma Photon Geyser vs. 68 HP / 0 SpD Araquanid-Totem: 139-165 (47.2 - 56.1%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO.
Same as Rhyperior, except Araquanid can activate our Weakness Policy.
- Golisopod : 252+ Atk Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Prism Armor Necrozma: 234-276 (69.8 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.
You have First Impression so you can put the sr then you him OHKO after activating the Weakness Policy.
(+2 252+ SpA Necrozma Photon Geyser vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Golisopod: 385-454 (110 - 129.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO )
- Noivern : Noivern is incapable of OHKO Necrozma, and a simple uturn can put your opponent in a very complicated situation.
- Haxorus Choice Band : 252+ Atk Choice Band Haxorus First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Prism Armor Necrozma: 262-310 (78.2 - 92.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
We all know the rest ...
- Sirfetch'd Choice Band : 252+ Atk Choice Band Sirfetch'd First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Prism Armor Necrozma: 246-291 (73.4 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
We all know the rest ...
- Cobalion : 252 Atk Cobalion Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Necrozma: 102-120 (30.4 - 35.8%) -- 35% chance to 3HKO
VS
252+ SpA Necrozma Heat Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cobalion: 294-348 (91 - 107.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Cobalion never wins his 1v1, unless twave + iron head, and again ...
- Incineroar : 108+ Atk Incineroar Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Prism Armor Necrozma: 213-252 (63.5 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
VS
252+ SpA Necrozma Earth Power vs. 200 HP / 24 SpD Incineroar: 226-268 (59.3 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- Bronzong : 252+ SpA Necrozma Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 146-174 (43.1 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
- Flygon scarf : uturn allows you to activate your Weakness Policy and turn Necrozma into shaggy with 100% of its power.
- Darmanitan scarf : same as for flygon scarf + you tank flare blitz, but who use flare blitz turn 1 against necrozma lead ? (252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Necrozma: 267-315 (79.7 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)
- Rhyperior : 252+ SpA Necrozma Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 172 SpD Rhyperior: 220-261 (50.6 - 60.1%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery. Rhyperior simply dies after 2 Photon Geyser, either he places the sr, and we then kill the Rhyperior + our Necrozma is full life, or Necrozma takes 48.3 - 57.3% on Earthquake.
- Araquanid : 252+ SpA Necrozma Photon Geyser vs. 68 HP / 0 SpD Araquanid-Totem: 139-165 (47.2 - 56.1%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO.
Same as Rhyperior, except Araquanid can activate our Weakness Policy.
- Golisopod : 252+ Atk Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Prism Armor Necrozma: 234-276 (69.8 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.
You have First Impression so you can put the sr then you him OHKO after activating the Weakness Policy.
(+2 252+ SpA Necrozma Photon Geyser vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Golisopod: 385-454 (110 - 129.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO )
- Noivern : Noivern is incapable of OHKO Necrozma, and a simple uturn can put your opponent in a very complicated situation.
- Haxorus Choice Band : 252+ Atk Choice Band Haxorus First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Prism Armor Necrozma: 262-310 (78.2 - 92.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
We all know the rest ...
- Sirfetch'd Choice Band : 252+ Atk Choice Band Sirfetch'd First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Prism Armor Necrozma: 246-291 (73.4 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
We all know the rest ...
On the other hand, Necrozma has a hard time against :
- Chandelure specs : (He tanks shadow ball from the scarf : 252 SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Prism Armor Necrozma: 351-414 (104.7 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO )
- Pangoro choice band : 252+ Atk Choice Band Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Prism Armor Necrozma: 375-442 (111.9 - 131.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO. Necrozma doesn't do any damage in return, he just puts the sr.
- Roserade sleep powder lead
- Gardevoir Scarf/Specs : Gardevoir is faster than Necrozma and the 2HKO : 252 SpA Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Necrozma: 166-196 (49.5 - 58.5%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO. Necrozma doesn't do any damage in return, he just puts the sr.
- Darmanitan band : 252 Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Necrozma: 399-471 (119.1 - 140.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO, Okay, but who plays darmanitan choice band + use flare blitz turn 1??
- Chandelure specs : (He tanks shadow ball from the scarf : 252 SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Prism Armor Necrozma: 351-414 (104.7 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO )
- Pangoro choice band : 252+ Atk Choice Band Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Prism Armor Necrozma: 375-442 (111.9 - 131.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO. Necrozma doesn't do any damage in return, he just puts the sr.
- Roserade sleep powder lead
- Gardevoir Scarf/Specs : Gardevoir is faster than Necrozma and the 2HKO : 252 SpA Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Necrozma: 166-196 (49.5 - 58.5%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO. Necrozma doesn't do any damage in return, he just puts the sr.
- Darmanitan band : 252 Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Necrozma: 399-471 (119.1 - 140.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO, Okay, but who plays darmanitan choice band + use flare blitz turn 1??
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1119887019 -> uturn turn 1 activated my Weakness Policy, allowing me to make 2 kills right from the start of the game and I was able to put my sr, Necrozma did his job.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1120328578 -> a nice demonstration of Necrozma's natural bulk, able to hold first impression of haxorus choice band ada and kill him in return, plus, I managed to put my sr + weaken the inci + the reuniclus. The game was already won on turn 6 thanks to Necrozma's work.
(252+ Atk Choice Band Haxorus First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Prism Armor Necrozma: 262-310 (78.2 - 92.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1120328578 -> a nice demonstration of Necrozma's natural bulk, able to hold first impression of haxorus choice band ada and kill him in return, plus, I managed to put my sr + weaken the inci + the reuniclus. The game was already won on turn 6 thanks to Necrozma's work.
(252+ Atk Choice Band Haxorus First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Prism Armor Necrozma: 262-310 (78.2 - 92.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)
I would also like to mention another Necrozma's set, more defensive, made by pokemonisfun, which goes well in defensive teams.
Necrozma @ Leftovers
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Def / 64 Spe
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Psychic
- Knock Off
- Moonlight
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Def / 64 Spe
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Psychic
- Knock Off
- Moonlight
In conclusion, Offensively, Necrozma is a perfect lead + sr setter, his natural bulk allows him to hold easily the hits and the Weakness Policy set allows to punish very severely an opponent badly prepared (The only weakness of this Necrozma is the haxx, which works rather well against him ...).
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Hi all,
I also decided to play 60 games with Stealth Rocks Necrozma, but also wanted to use Copperajah on the same team (even if I decided to use AV over band since I think it's much better). I was inspired by ODR's Sticky Webs team since it looks more like a team that happens to have webs on it rather than a sticky webs team (in other words, it can function perfectly fine without webs).
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Importable
The Araquanid spread allows it to outrun standard pivot Incineroar and everything slower, while letting it hit as hard as possible. Against teams that don't use Rotom-W or Golisopod as their water resist, Araquanid is actually pretty scary since not much can really switch into Liquidation, and those who can (Noivern, Milotic, Gastrodon) are hit by Toxic. SD Incineroar is a pretty obvious pick since webs allows it to beat potential revenge killers like Cobalion or Toxtricity. I honestly picked adamant banded Haxorus since Haxorus is broken and benefits from stuff like Scarf Gardevoir not coming in to revenge kill you, and First Impression is so nice against all the random HO you see on ladder. Rocks 3-attacks Necrozma is great since it can 1v1 a ton of defoggers and win (Rotom-W, Noivern, Weezing most notably), while being really hard to switch into thanks to its coverage. The item is honestly a placeholder and I've also used Expert Belt, which is nice to 2HKO Rhyperior and pivot Incineroar reliably. I'm a huge fan of CM Sylveon in general, and webs is perfect for it to prevent stuff like Cobalion from coming in and dealing with you (since +1 Hyper Voice OHKOs with Pixie Plate), and Substitute is great to avoid random Toxics from Milotic and Umbreon for example. I really needed a fairy resist and something to not get immediately 6-0'd by Toxtricity, so I slapped on AV Copperajah. Copperajah is incredibly difficult to switch into due to its coverage, and this spread is fast enough to outrun Adamant Pangoro and everything slower under webs.
Overall I managed to do decently with this team (below), but this team really struggles against fat teams that feature Toxic Spikes and Spikes. Against this, you are forced to play aggressively (I.e., double constantly to not let hazards go up) to have a chance. I've also lost a few times to screens HO since Haxorus is relied on heavily to revenge kill stuff with First Impression, which can be taken advantage of. Aside from this, the team is quite effective and is fun to play, so I hope you guys have fun using it! Thank you for reading.
I also decided to play 60 games with Stealth Rocks Necrozma, but also wanted to use Copperajah on the same team (even if I decided to use AV over band since I think it's much better). I was inspired by ODR's Sticky Webs team since it looks more like a team that happens to have webs on it rather than a sticky webs team (in other words, it can function perfectly fine without webs).
Importable
The Araquanid spread allows it to outrun standard pivot Incineroar and everything slower, while letting it hit as hard as possible. Against teams that don't use Rotom-W or Golisopod as their water resist, Araquanid is actually pretty scary since not much can really switch into Liquidation, and those who can (Noivern, Milotic, Gastrodon) are hit by Toxic. SD Incineroar is a pretty obvious pick since webs allows it to beat potential revenge killers like Cobalion or Toxtricity. I honestly picked adamant banded Haxorus since Haxorus is broken and benefits from stuff like Scarf Gardevoir not coming in to revenge kill you, and First Impression is so nice against all the random HO you see on ladder. Rocks 3-attacks Necrozma is great since it can 1v1 a ton of defoggers and win (Rotom-W, Noivern, Weezing most notably), while being really hard to switch into thanks to its coverage. The item is honestly a placeholder and I've also used Expert Belt, which is nice to 2HKO Rhyperior and pivot Incineroar reliably. I'm a huge fan of CM Sylveon in general, and webs is perfect for it to prevent stuff like Cobalion from coming in and dealing with you (since +1 Hyper Voice OHKOs with Pixie Plate), and Substitute is great to avoid random Toxics from Milotic and Umbreon for example. I really needed a fairy resist and something to not get immediately 6-0'd by Toxtricity, so I slapped on AV Copperajah. Copperajah is incredibly difficult to switch into due to its coverage, and this spread is fast enough to outrun Adamant Pangoro and everything slower under webs.
Overall I managed to do decently with this team (below), but this team really struggles against fat teams that feature Toxic Spikes and Spikes. Against this, you are forced to play aggressively (I.e., double constantly to not let hazards go up) to have a chance. I've also lost a few times to screens HO since Haxorus is relied on heavily to revenge kill stuff with First Impression, which can be taken advantage of. Aside from this, the team is quite effective and is fun to play, so I hope you guys have fun using it! Thank you for reading.
Sadly I forgot to most of my replays, but I saved one below, even if I really didn't play too well in this one:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1123438617
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1123438617
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I used both CB Copp and physically defensive Stealth Rock Croz on the alt SSRW11 vivalospride.
Defensive Stealth Rock Croz is hilarious. It lives pretty much anything other than Choice Specs Chandy's Shadow Ball. It's a capable check to Cobalion (if no flinches happen), Galarian Weezing, Lucario, and more. It's also pretty good at setting rocks. I opted for Psychic / Knock Off / Stealth Rock / Moonlight, because Heat Wave doesn't do that much and Knock Off is extremely annoying for opposing Dark-types (and, coincidentally, Knock is also great vs screens setters). Non-Toxic Umbreon and Willo Incineroar are practically unable to actually meaningfully damage Necrozma, so I've had times where I just stay in and set rocks / knock them while they do pitiful damage. My main complaint with this set is that it lets Pangoro in pretty safely and can make SD Incin dangerous, but those are both manageable in their own right with team support. I believe that this is Croz's best non-HO set.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1123405937
CB Copp is a weird mon. Its existence is a duality: it either completely wrecks shit, or it does absolutely nothing and dies. Which outcome occurs depends entirely on whether or not the opponent has one of Gardevoir, Specs/non-Mystical Fire Sylveon, Choice item Toxtricity, Bronzong, and Roserade. If the opposing team has one of those, CB Copp can come in every time that mon comes in and then OHKO basically anything. If not, you've got a mon to use for a sack because it won't get an opportunity (copportunity?) to actually come in and slap something. Careful prediction is also required to use it to its full effect, though if the team has a Rotom-W you can be 100% sure they're going into that the first time. Be sure to have good fighting checks on the team so you can bail after they send in coba/panda/whatever to revenge. Overall, a lot worse than the more consistent Copp sets, but VERY fun when it works.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1123410175
Defensive Stealth Rock Croz is hilarious. It lives pretty much anything other than Choice Specs Chandy's Shadow Ball. It's a capable check to Cobalion (if no flinches happen), Galarian Weezing, Lucario, and more. It's also pretty good at setting rocks. I opted for Psychic / Knock Off / Stealth Rock / Moonlight, because Heat Wave doesn't do that much and Knock Off is extremely annoying for opposing Dark-types (and, coincidentally, Knock is also great vs screens setters). Non-Toxic Umbreon and Willo Incineroar are practically unable to actually meaningfully damage Necrozma, so I've had times where I just stay in and set rocks / knock them while they do pitiful damage. My main complaint with this set is that it lets Pangoro in pretty safely and can make SD Incin dangerous, but those are both manageable in their own right with team support. I believe that this is Croz's best non-HO set.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1123405937
CB Copp is a weird mon. Its existence is a duality: it either completely wrecks shit, or it does absolutely nothing and dies. Which outcome occurs depends entirely on whether or not the opponent has one of Gardevoir, Specs/non-Mystical Fire Sylveon, Choice item Toxtricity, Bronzong, and Roserade. If the opposing team has one of those, CB Copp can come in every time that mon comes in and then OHKO basically anything. If not, you've got a mon to use for a sack because it won't get an opportunity (copportunity?) to actually come in and slap something. Careful prediction is also required to use it to its full effect, though if the team has a Rotom-W you can be 100% sure they're going into that the first time. Be sure to have good fighting checks on the team so you can bail after they send in coba/panda/whatever to revenge. Overall, a lot worse than the more consistent Copp sets, but VERY fun when it works.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1123410175
well i tested a bit rock necro but idk what to think about it and since i got my reqs only w copper im only writing something about it.
so first heres the team i used
click on me
its basically a BO w some volturn.
So about copper :
it kinda bops everything which is not an rk9 with the right predict but the problem is that : copper already kinda do that. Ok you don't OHKO most of things but you are still a super offensive threat for every team. During all my games i just felt that copper could have done the exact same job with an AV, so my feel about that is just that you lose a cool defensive presence for nothing big. I dont feel like copper banded has a niche in the actual meta.
so first heres the team i used
click on me
its basically a BO w some volturn.
So about copper :
it kinda bops everything which is not an rk9 with the right predict but the problem is that : copper already kinda do that. Ok you don't OHKO most of things but you are still a super offensive threat for every team. During all my games i just felt that copper could have done the exact same job with an AV, so my feel about that is just that you lose a cool defensive presence for nothing big. I dont feel like copper banded has a niche in the actual meta.
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Apologies for the delay, we had a hard time deciding what to do with the recent drops. Anyway, this week's winner is Panther-T , congratulations !
Offensive and defensive versions of Stealth Rock Necrozma were used, and both proved to be extremely effective. Its coverage and powerful Photon Geyser allows it to threaten most of the common hazard removers, and its natural bulk coupled with Prism Armor allows it to easily trade hits if needed. Defensive variants, while not as explosive, lets Necrozma take full advantage of its great bulk to play the long game and repeatedly switch into many dangerous Pokemon like Lucario, Weezing-Galar or Cobalion, giving it many opportunities to get the rocks up, spread damage with its STAB move of choice, or knock items off.
Choice Band Copperajah turned out to be in a weird spot, as Copperajah is already an excellent breaker and further boosting its offensive capabilities proved to be relatively overkill, compared to the additional utility an other item (like Assault Vest) can provide.
Onto week 12, and it's gonna be a wet one.
Keldeo is one of the new additions to the tier, and it's already making some big waves. However, UU isn't lacking in both Water and Fighting resistances which could be enough to stop it, but the poney could have some tricks up its mane to deal with these answers so it's worth testing.
Speaking of Keldeo answers, Jellicent's usage has been dropping down for some time, but the drops of a new dangerous water breaker, and Drizzle, to the tier, might give it a chance at the spotlight. Is the jellyfish going to pop out of irrelevance for 3 days until rain gets the boot, or does still have some redeeming qualities it can make use of once the tier stabilizes ?
In order to participate you must do the following:
Offensive and defensive versions of Stealth Rock Necrozma were used, and both proved to be extremely effective. Its coverage and powerful Photon Geyser allows it to threaten most of the common hazard removers, and its natural bulk coupled with Prism Armor allows it to easily trade hits if needed. Defensive variants, while not as explosive, lets Necrozma take full advantage of its great bulk to play the long game and repeatedly switch into many dangerous Pokemon like Lucario, Weezing-Galar or Cobalion, giving it many opportunities to get the rocks up, spread damage with its STAB move of choice, or knock items off.
Choice Band Copperajah turned out to be in a weird spot, as Copperajah is already an excellent breaker and further boosting its offensive capabilities proved to be relatively overkill, compared to the additional utility an other item (like Assault Vest) can provide.
Onto week 12, and it's gonna be a wet one.
Keldeo is one of the new additions to the tier, and it's already making some big waves. However, UU isn't lacking in both Water and Fighting resistances which could be enough to stop it, but the poney could have some tricks up its mane to deal with these answers so it's worth testing.
Speaking of Keldeo answers, Jellicent's usage has been dropping down for some time, but the drops of a new dangerous water breaker, and Drizzle, to the tier, might give it a chance at the spotlight. Is the jellyfish going to pop out of irrelevance for 3 days until rain gets the boot, or does still have some redeeming qualities it can make use of once the tier stabilizes ?
In order to participate you must do the following:
- Post here with a fresh RW alt (such as SSRW12 Daiyaga or SSRW12 Cake) and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
- Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
- Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!
- Post logs of this Pokemon in action against other teams - don't just tell us, show us
- The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown UU ladder with their RW alt at the time the challenge ends. Winners will also receive a permanent spot in this thread's Hall of Fame.
SSRW12 Kaizo Block taking Jellicent.
Edit: Actually doing Keldeo since I have no idea how to build with Jellicent (Keldeo is way simpler for me).
Edit #2: Ran into 6 Jellicents in a row using Keldeo I may go back to Jellicent.
Edit #3: After getting swept by Mantine several times in a row, I surrender. You win this time ladder.
Edit: Actually doing Keldeo since I have no idea how to build with Jellicent (Keldeo is way simpler for me).
Edit #2: Ran into 6 Jellicents in a row using Keldeo I may go back to Jellicent.
Edit #3: After getting swept by Mantine several times in a row, I surrender. You win this time ladder.
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Ok I have played some games during this days (50 to be specific), and this are my toughts on Keldeo and Jellicent
Keldeo
I have tried 2 different sets, CM + Taunt and Choice Specs and both are pretty good
Low Ladder:Keldeo
I have tried 2 different sets, CM + Taunt and Choice Specs and both are pretty good
To get ride of Low Ladder asap I build a HO running CM + Taunt Keldeo, due to Hidden Power being removed, keldeo lacks on good coverage aside from both Stabs and Icy Windy, and both stabs hits everything (despite Jellicent), and Taunt avoids tries to Haze or Toxic from bulky water Checks like Milotic and Mantine, Taunt basically shuts down defensive checks, I have seen even Air Slash/Hurricane Water Abosrb Mantine to try to stop Keldeo, anyways, this is a cool set for low ladder, nothing new on the build, just standar screens HO.
Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1126154884-146sp6st0bqfnotp3ngooynvkjeag7bpw
Middle-Hight Ladder:
Now here, I played Specs Keldeo and also again CM + Taunt but with a different evs spread that Im gonna explain. Specs Keldeo is a beast, and more powerful under Rain, however be locked on one move makes easier for Defensive mons to Switch with correct prediction, and also make easier from Jellicent or Gastrodon to wall, I preffered Modest instead of timid, due to have more chance to KO Defensive pivots on Rain with Hydro Pump like standar Noivern that has a little chance to OHKO and needs just a bit of chip, Hydro Pump and Secret Sword are obviulsy there, Icy Windy hits Roserade and Noivern and cripple Speed, Toxic is an interesting pick, Toxic allows to cripple Jellicent and Mantine specially, due to resist both stabs (inmunity in case of Jellicent), other options can be Calm Mind in case Keldeo gets Knocked Off his Choice Specs.
About the CM + Taunt Spread, Speed Evs are to outspeed base 95 mons with +Speed Nature, this lets Keldeo be outspeed by other mons, however, Keldeo can not deal with those mons, base 100 are Celebi and Flygon, Celebi due to the typing naturally checks Keldeo and wins a 1v1, Flygon most of the time carries Scarf or DD sets to help on Speed control, then with 252 Timid Nature Keldeo doesnt outspeeds Cobalion and it has to be dependent on Speed Tie (to avoid get swept by Cobalion, I also have teammates to check it like Pelliper and Noivern on Rain, or Doublade on balanced builds, also the extra bulk on keldeo allows to take better hits), the special bulk is intersting, it has a good chance to survive a Max Sp Atck Hurricane from noivern, and after a 1 CM makes easier to take hits from checks like AV Regenerator Reuniclus or Scarf Gardevoir, and be able to avoid getting Rk and poceed to sweep. Here some calcs. On a late game, CM Keldeo can clean up with hazard support or some chips on defensive walls, reason why Spikes Roserade is a good teammate, as it also can switch on checks like Jellicent, and Sylveon is also a good partner since it can heal bell on status, wish pass and check Noivern.
Replays:
Here you can 6 Keldeo making 6-0 to a defensive build with CM and Taunt, extra bulk after 2 CM helped to deal with Reuniclus, and Taunt let Mantine unable to answer. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1127034476-57pgr6pmpsrj1hai51wz8z1ey6b8vzgpw
Here Specs Keldeo on Rain that is a beast with teams without a real water answer, also running SpDef Rillaboom + SpDef Copperjah that is a really good core against Rain threats. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1127560343-inire2busase7hyh9c4l8f2rfm1mbs2pw
Other options like Sub CM are also kind of viable, however with Infiltrator Noivern and Hyper Voice Sylveon in the meta is not as good, and Haze users can PP Stall then, I havent tested yet Scarf Keldeo, but seems pretty decent as a rk or late game sweeper.
Jellicent
Tbh aside from defensive Jelicent I didnt tried anything else, as an ofensive watertype doesnt seems bad, but Inteleon, keldeo and blastoise can also do that and betterMiddle-Hight Ladder:
I have never given a try to Jellicent, and its really good, more than I tought, its a pretty good check to Cobalion and Machamp, and now to water abusers on rain. I made a different evs spread from the standar one (click here to see) standar one is invested just on physical bulk, I tried to make a mix wall, the Def evs allows to get 3HKO by a +2 Cobalion Stone Edge and still checking other physical threats, also the special bulk helps to deal more easy with Sylveon and Noivern, also tanks decent hits from Specs Gardevoir, in general i really like this mon, can punish most of Steath Rocks setters on the tiers and physical breakers thanks to Wisp + Hex, something that im not too sure, if is drop something for Scald, bcz eithout Scald Incineroar becomes a counter to Jellicent, maybe Taunt can be dropped, but it sacrifices the ability to take Sylveon and Noivern. pretty cool mon here. This Jellicent is slower than standar one, speed enought to oustpeed Wish Umbreon.
Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1127548627-kufzhjzkbixfivfzpk5u1ph9v1biyo5pw
Im gonna still laddering to test more this mons, but by the moment I fell ther are very good, talking about Keldeo, I dont find it as broken as many people think, there are a bunch of checks to it, about rain it can become a little annoying to always have to bring something for rain teams, like in last OU generations of BW or SM, that u would mandatory bring something for rain, but we have a lot of options for that.
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First of all, congratulations to Luirromen , who says more or less everything about Keldeo and Jellicent, I will however bring some details about specs keldeo.
I only played one team, it's a rain with three choice specs! keldeo + noivern + pelliper. And the result is impressive.
Rain + specs keldeo is too strong to stay in UU.
I played this set from Keldeo:
However, I played my first games with this set for a long time, to counter Celebi:
My team in the end: https://pokepast.es/f0750a79b7bea6d9
Let's not forget that besides being an incredible breaker under rain, keldeo is the natural counterpart to Incineroar (one of the most widely used pokemons at the moment).
As you said in this week's announcement, UU isn't lacking in both Water and Fighting resistances, like Jellicent, celebi, Vileplume, Roserade, Noivern, Mantine ...
Finally, I'd add that even having a Mantine/Jellicent/... against a Keldeo specs, we must not forget that it's teamwork to win a match.
For example, all the pokemons I mentioned above are destroyed by Drednaw...
I only played one team, it's a rain with three choice specs! keldeo + noivern + pelliper. And the result is impressive.
Rain + specs keldeo is too strong to stay in UU.
I played this set from Keldeo:
Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Secret Sword
- Hydro Pump
- Icy Wind
- Surf
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Secret Sword
- Hydro Pump
- Icy Wind
- Surf
However, I played my first games with this set for a long time, to counter Celebi:
Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Secret Sword
- Hydro Pump
- Icy Wind
- Megahorn
4 Atk Keldeo Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 268-316 (66.3 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Secret Sword
- Hydro Pump
- Icy Wind
- Megahorn
4 Atk Keldeo Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 268-316 (66.3 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
My team in the end: https://pokepast.es/f0750a79b7bea6d9
Let's not forget that besides being an incredible breaker under rain, keldeo is the natural counterpart to Incineroar (one of the most widely used pokemons at the moment).
As you said in this week's announcement, UU isn't lacking in both Water and Fighting resistances, like Jellicent, celebi, Vileplume, Roserade, Noivern, Mantine ...
Jellicent :
Keldeo specs doesn't touch Jellicent in SS UU, it's a perfect cons. However, Jellicent should beware of toxic Keldeo, who can really kill Jellicent if there is no Heal bell in the team.
Celebi :
Celebi is also a good counter to Keldeo, but beware of the rare Megahorn Keldeo.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celebi in Rain: 144-171 (35.6 - 42.3%) -- 91.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Keldeo Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 268-316 (66.3 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Vileplume :
Vileplume dies on 2 Hpump in the rain, that's not a counter to Keldeo specs ...
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Vileplume in Rain: 219-258 (61.8 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
Roserade :
For roserade, it's even worse, even Secret Sword Destroyed Roserade ...
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roserade: 147-174 (56.3 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Roserade in Rain: 192-227 (73.5 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Noivern :
For Noivern, it's a bit particular, Noivern can threaten Keldeo if he has Hurricane, but in general, Noivern is not a counter to Keldeo, who destroys him under the rain. Moreover, Icy Wind OHKO Noivern and Secret Sword destroys Noivern if he tries to roost
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Noivern: 428-508 (137.6 - 163.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Noivern in Rain: 240-283 (77.1 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
If Noivern try to roost on Secret Sword-> 252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Noivern: 249-294 (80 - 94.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Mantine :
Same remarks for Mantine as for Jellicent. Mantine is fine against Keldeo, but you have to be careful not to get toxic from Keldeo.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mantine: 93-110 (24.8 - 29.4%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO
Keldeo specs doesn't touch Jellicent in SS UU, it's a perfect cons. However, Jellicent should beware of toxic Keldeo, who can really kill Jellicent if there is no Heal bell in the team.
Celebi :
Celebi is also a good counter to Keldeo, but beware of the rare Megahorn Keldeo.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celebi in Rain: 144-171 (35.6 - 42.3%) -- 91.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Keldeo Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 268-316 (66.3 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Vileplume :
Vileplume dies on 2 Hpump in the rain, that's not a counter to Keldeo specs ...
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Vileplume in Rain: 219-258 (61.8 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
Roserade :
For roserade, it's even worse, even Secret Sword Destroyed Roserade ...
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roserade: 147-174 (56.3 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Roserade in Rain: 192-227 (73.5 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Noivern :
For Noivern, it's a bit particular, Noivern can threaten Keldeo if he has Hurricane, but in general, Noivern is not a counter to Keldeo, who destroys him under the rain. Moreover, Icy Wind OHKO Noivern and Secret Sword destroys Noivern if he tries to roost
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Noivern: 428-508 (137.6 - 163.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Noivern in Rain: 240-283 (77.1 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
If Noivern try to roost on Secret Sword-> 252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Noivern: 249-294 (80 - 94.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Mantine :
Same remarks for Mantine as for Jellicent. Mantine is fine against Keldeo, but you have to be careful not to get toxic from Keldeo.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mantine: 93-110 (24.8 - 29.4%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO
For example, all the pokemons I mentioned above are destroyed by Drednaw...
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1126620101-o13jpnvc86pl7w3xadmbc3fk5bqf3o0pw -> Rain is OP, Keldeo did nothing, the rest of the team did really well
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1127816092-s3q0n7b5bmtc012fve7iplexbyf2fpcpw -> Keldeo clean at the end
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1127816092-s3q0n7b5bmtc012fve7iplexbyf2fpcpw -> Keldeo clean at the end
Thanks to everyone who participated this week! Our winner for Week 12 is KSt3ve! Congratulations!!
Keldeo has great reviews as a new drop into UU. It has a plethora of potential sets, the two being tested being Calm Mind, and Specs. On a Calm Mind set you could opt for coverage, or Luirromen used taunt to prevent defensive walls from clicking toxic or haze, which would lower its potential to deal damage after a boost. Choice Specs however gives Keldeo immediate damage boost which makes it a fearsome wallbreaker to switch into. Though it does have the downside of being locked into only one move, which can let defensive answers answer more easily once the move it locked itself into was revealed. Choice Specs was especially deadly under rain, making it much harder to switch into unless you have a water immune pokemon such as gastrodon. One set that wasn't particularly tested, but was mentioned by KSt3ve is Toxic Keldeo, which can allow it to get past some of the defensive walls that would otherwise do well against it.
Jellicent also had fairly good reviews, surprising some people in its abilities. It's a great check to Cobalion, and Machamp, along with being the best counter to Keldeo we have. It's typing allows it to check a lot of common pokemon, along with reliable recovery, options like taunt and will-o-wisp makes it good against a lot of common rockers. In general it can be an annoyance to a lot of defensive pokemon through its ability to stop them from healing, or setting up what they'd need.
With those covered, onto Week 13!
This week we're testing one of the new starter hidden abilities! Rillaboom now has access to Grassy Surge, which makes it a much more viable choice in the meta. It is able to boost its own STAB attacks while also providing healing for the rest of the team, which is a very valuable trait. How will it preform compared to our other grass types of the tier? Will this new ability allow it to cement itself into the meta?
Our next choice is Pelipper! With Drizzle now being banned from UU, Pelipper lost it's main niche as a rain setter, but does that make it an unviable choice? Let's find out!
In order to participate you must do the following:
Keldeo has great reviews as a new drop into UU. It has a plethora of potential sets, the two being tested being Calm Mind, and Specs. On a Calm Mind set you could opt for coverage, or Luirromen used taunt to prevent defensive walls from clicking toxic or haze, which would lower its potential to deal damage after a boost. Choice Specs however gives Keldeo immediate damage boost which makes it a fearsome wallbreaker to switch into. Though it does have the downside of being locked into only one move, which can let defensive answers answer more easily once the move it locked itself into was revealed. Choice Specs was especially deadly under rain, making it much harder to switch into unless you have a water immune pokemon such as gastrodon. One set that wasn't particularly tested, but was mentioned by KSt3ve is Toxic Keldeo, which can allow it to get past some of the defensive walls that would otherwise do well against it.
Jellicent also had fairly good reviews, surprising some people in its abilities. It's a great check to Cobalion, and Machamp, along with being the best counter to Keldeo we have. It's typing allows it to check a lot of common pokemon, along with reliable recovery, options like taunt and will-o-wisp makes it good against a lot of common rockers. In general it can be an annoyance to a lot of defensive pokemon through its ability to stop them from healing, or setting up what they'd need.
With those covered, onto Week 13!
Rillaboom @
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs:
-
-
-
-
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs:
-
-
-
-
Pelipper @
Ability: Not Drizzle
EVs:
-
-
-
-
Ability: Not Drizzle
EVs:
-
-
-
-
This week we're testing one of the new starter hidden abilities! Rillaboom now has access to Grassy Surge, which makes it a much more viable choice in the meta. It is able to boost its own STAB attacks while also providing healing for the rest of the team, which is a very valuable trait. How will it preform compared to our other grass types of the tier? Will this new ability allow it to cement itself into the meta?
Our next choice is Pelipper! With Drizzle now being banned from UU, Pelipper lost it's main niche as a rain setter, but does that make it an unviable choice? Let's find out!
In order to participate you must do the following:
- Post here with a fresh RW alt (such as SSRW13 Daiyaga or SSRW13 Cake) and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
- Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
- Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!
- Post logs of this Pokemon in action against other teams - don't just tell us, show us
- The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown UU ladder with their RW alt at the time the challenge ends. Winners will also receive a permanent spot in this thread's Hall of Fame.
I've already written a Rillaboom manifesto , so I just want to share my results using a slightly modified version of the team I used in that post, as well as some new ideas for using Grassy Terrain. I changed AV Copperajah to specially defensive Escavalier because Roserade gave this team huge problems. It could click Sleep Powder so easily (my fastest Pokemon to threaten it, Rillaboom, cannot OHKO it) and came in often against Sylveon and Rotom-W. When it comes to Rillaboom, I've noticed that you risk giving up a ton of momentum when it comes in, since clicking Wood Hammer to revenge kill something lets Incineroar, Noivern, Cobalion and other pivots to come in and pivot out on whatever you bring in after. Aside from this, I've been seeing Grassy Terrain+Grassy Seed CM Reuniclus (gives a defense boost, and unlike dual dance sets, can afford to fit Focus Blast) which is an extremely potent win con. I've even seen Grassy Terrain+Unburden Hitmonlee a couple of times (not sure if this is worth exploring but it was still interesting). I have not personally experimented with any of this, but it was still cool to see and may be worth checking out in the future. I've only played 25 games so far on this alt since the ladder was not updating for the past couple of days on showdown, which you'll see the results below:
Okey, after 45 games I build a lot of teams running 3 different sets on Rillaboom, and I can say that is a really good mon actually with Grassy Surge, and Grassy Terrain brings a lot of support for Steel Type teammates and also gives an extra pasive recovery to defenisive pivots.
I have tried Scarf Rillaboom, SD Coba Berry and my favorite, Specially Defensive Pivot.
Low Ladder:I have tried Scarf Rillaboom, SD Coba Berry and my favorite, Specially Defensive Pivot.
Like Keldeo last week, I tried to put Rillaboom on a Hyper Offense build to pass asap from low ladder, I made 2 sets, and just one of them really worked, mi first try was with Terrain Extender Rillaboom, to give Terrain Support to the rest of the team and make easier to set up behind screens with a pasive recovery and make more difficult to rk, SG Toxtricity is a mon that behing screens really appreciates Grassy Terrain, the bulk that it gets is incredible stupid against Earthquake users, it makes able to get 2HKO by a 252 Atck Flygon, I usually run some bulk on Toxtricity to ensure it lives some hits, to show that is not exageration here some calcs. However Terrain Extender Rillaboom didnt work at all, due to give Noivern or Gweezing free turns to Defog Screens and Terrain, so I decided to make Rillabom a breaker instead of a support. SD Rillaboom was better than I expected, +2 Wood Hammer deals a chunk to any no Grass Resist mon in the meta, Drain Punch gives longevity and an answer to Incineroar and Steel Types, and last slot goes for Mega Kick, why Mega Kick?, this Rillaboom set completely lures on Noivern, its natural bulk makes able to tank a Flamethrower, and Coba Berry lures on Hurricane Variants, a +2 Mega Kick has a good chance to OHKO standar Noivern: +2 252 Atk Rillaboom Mega Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Noivern: 306-360 (98.3 - 115.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO, also 2HKO G-Weezing after rocks, and on ladder I got pretty good results with this Rillaboom. Talking back with Grassy Terrain, I wanted to try good Terrain abusers aside from Hitmonlee, my first idea was a CM Grassy Seed Slurpuff, but...., it was really trash, ngl, I mean, yeah it has a pretty good special movepool, but have Dazzling Gleam as the best stab move is not that good, it has good coverage but last slot depends on what u want to check, Psychic hits G-Weezing and Toxtricity, but T-Bolt and Energy Ball hits bulky water types that can attemp to Haze, T-Bolt hits Mantine, but Energy Ball hits Gastrodon (Clear Smog or Toxic), so, I declined for other mon, then I discovered that CM Necrozma is a pretty good abuser of Grassy Terrain with Grassy Seed, the extra defense bulk behing screens makes easier to set up against mons that usually offensively check Necrozma, the speed evs allows to outspeed Adamant max speed Incineroar, and the rest on SpAtck and bulk, I reffered drop Heat Wave for Moonlight, because Ground + Psychic hits everything aside from Bronzong and Umbreon, and Moonlight gives more longevity to Necrozma + passive recovery from Grassy Terrain.
Some Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1131536969-2suzffx8vyhz37aor7svw4u86u9jckvpw HereNecrozma after 1 CM and Grassy Seed Boost basically autowins, however it crits me later, but then Espeon cleans the game, also Rillaboom OHKO Goodra after a SD with Mega Kick
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1131161088-rj59itkydzticjljmizf1gscxryk9ewpw Here despite the random assurance from Rillaboom, at first I tought Assurance worked like Payback and I was running Assurance instead of Mega Kick, but with Mega Kick Probably Rillaboom would have claimed more KOs
https://pokepast.es/087f14a44849ca14 This is what I mostly used
Middle-Hight Ladder
At the beggining of this post I said I tried Scarf Rillaboom, and yeah I did, but it was the most obvius set to spam, so I decided to make my own new set, Specially Defensive Pivot, really, do Im the only one using Specially Defensive pivot? most of Rillabom I saw were scarf or CB. This set is not new for me, last week when Rain was availbale yet I spamed this spread, is able to take an Sludge Bomb from non-Life Orb Roserade, a Hurricane for Noivern, and hard check Specs Gardevoir and Sylveon, but the main reason for this spread, is because its a pretty solid check to electric and water types mons, and Celebi, and as anyone knows, makes a really good core with Copperjah, I spamed Tect Rillaboom and Tect Coperjah, due to scout choice locked mons like Toxtricitty, Darmanitan, Pangoro and Flygon, this is really good, as it makes easier to check Toxtricity, Tect scout if is going for electric move or Boomburst and change or stay in depending on the situation, alse Tect gives EVEN more recovery, in 2 turns you recover 1/4 health, Drum Beatin over Wood Hammer, because the speed control that gives you is pretty good, it helps to control speed against DD Necrozma, also the -1 speed on a switch allow to then just spam U-Turn before and scape from the situation, extra speed to outspeed Noivern after a-1 is also good, but sacrifices some bulk, the speed spread allows to outspeed Adamant Sirfetchs and base 60 mons without +Speed Nature, also Protect avoids any try to rk with First Imprission, this spread is pretty good because it gives you a really good answer against Washtom, and punish water types in general, and Knock Off is good against Noivern on the mid-late game, about Terrain, Terrain, is pretty good to support the entire team, even Noivern, a mon that doesnt touch the terrain if it roost gain that extra recovery, here a list of good partners that I found with Rillaboom.
Probably the best teammate for Rillaboom, it can switch on Flying and Poison Type attacks, and makes easier to keed switching on the mid game for the extra recovery, also removes Earthquake weakness, Terrain also boost Power Whip power.
SD Cobalion works pretty good with Rillaboom, I used Occa Berry, as it removes Earthquake and Fire weakness, and Occa Berry + T-Wave luren on Noivern. Doublade is another SD sweeper that enjoys lose Eq weakness and a pasive recovery
Pretty much the same with Coperjah, but this 2 make easier to check special attackers, specially Gigalith, however they have to drop Eq for HHP as a groung move to dont get the EQ Nerf, also Tect gives any more recovery.
Eq weakness removed, Fire + Grass core, enjoy pasive recovery, and make a momentum core with Teleport and Patring Shot / U-Turn
Blastoise is a pretty underrated spinner and wall, but the extra recovery makes easier to come on physical sweepers, during the Rain Meta I spammed Rain Dish Blastoise, and it was stupid the 18% recovery per turn, also is a spinner that can punnish spin blockers except from Jellicent.
Grassy Seed + CM really work well with this 2, making more dificult to KO, and be good wincons on the late game
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1130651260-0vah6mb1uljq8pp1vl6y52o0vjrd1q1pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1131158036-qzht38iq02boja3po2nehxwcqmfla7kpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1131974747-to4geu121o85saudm14pveylj4ylqoupw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1132179361-8tla6z76d6mckwabqfockc8jqf4agnqpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1132198192-5o5cixa44rznql1pjj0p08wuj3roj6vpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1132300018-tpy4j48tv1hffpz8rcoroiadnanq7fapw
About Pelliper, tbh I didnt even want to play with it, as it is not that good without Drizzle, I mean, is not a bad mon, is just outclassed, Noivern, Washtom and Mantine, they all do the same but actually better, but yeah, I didnt even give a try, so, not gonna talk too much :p
Pelipper without the rain, it's really, really... useless.
It's supposed to be a defensive pokemon that controls hazards, but it doesn't control anything at all, it's useless compared to most defensive water types in the third.
Its only use is its movepool, with knock off, u-turn, tailwind and... that's it...
I use this set :
Pelipper @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Scald
- Knock Off
- Roost
- Defog
252+ Atk Choice Band Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pelipper: 181-214 (55.8 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Noivern Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Pelipper: 231-273 (71.2 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
With Mantine :
252+ Atk Choice Band Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mantine: 228-268 (60.9 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Noivern Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mantine: 129-153 (34.4 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Mantine tank much better hits on the special, a little less on the physical, but without general bulk is far superior to that of Pelipper. Offensively, Mantine has more options than Pelipper, thanks to his talent.
With Milotic :
252+ Atk Choice Band Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 220 Def Milotic: 238-282 (60.4 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Noivern Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 36+ SpD Milotic: 127-150 (32.2 - 38%) -- 1.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Again, Milotic will take a little more on physical attacks than Pelipper, but will hold up much better on Special Attacks. Milotic's offensive options are numerous in addition, with his talent or even with coil.
With Cramorant :
252+ Atk Choice Band Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cramorant: 261-307 (75.8 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Noivern Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cramorant: 180-213 (52.3 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Cramoran has a higher bulk on the special, but not on the physical. He and Pelipper have the same offensive options, Pelipper hits a little harder with 95 in Spa against 85. Cramorant is however faster than Pelipper.
But Cramorant is not UU, but RU ...and I think Pelipper should join him.
252 SpA Noivern Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Pelipper: 231-273 (71.2 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
With Mantine :
252+ Atk Choice Band Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mantine: 228-268 (60.9 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Noivern Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mantine: 129-153 (34.4 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Mantine tank much better hits on the special, a little less on the physical, but without general bulk is far superior to that of Pelipper. Offensively, Mantine has more options than Pelipper, thanks to his talent.
With Milotic :
252+ Atk Choice Band Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 220 Def Milotic: 238-282 (60.4 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Noivern Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 36+ SpD Milotic: 127-150 (32.2 - 38%) -- 1.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Again, Milotic will take a little more on physical attacks than Pelipper, but will hold up much better on Special Attacks. Milotic's offensive options are numerous in addition, with his talent or even with coil.
With Cramorant :
252+ Atk Choice Band Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cramorant: 261-307 (75.8 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Noivern Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cramorant: 180-213 (52.3 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Cramoran has a higher bulk on the special, but not on the physical. He and Pelipper have the same offensive options, Pelipper hits a little harder with 95 in Spa against 85. Cramorant is however faster than Pelipper.
But Cramorant is not UU, but RU ...and I think Pelipper should join him.
In conclusion, Pelipper has no place in UU, his general bulk is not good enough, his attacking options are largely reduced without the rain, his two remaining talents are null and void. A lot of pokemons do the same job as him, but a lot better.
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Apologies for staying silent for so long, we didn't want to start a new week with the DLCs dropping in the middle and waited a bit for chansey to get banned things to calm down before doing anything. With that said, winner of week 13 is Luirromen , congratulations !
Grassy Surge Rillaboom has proven to be a dominant presence in the metagame. Its ability provides invaluable support to a ton of Pokémon, providing additional passive recovery alongside a resistance to Earthquake and activating Grassy Seed, proving extremely beneficial to the likes of Incineroar, Toxtricity, Copperajah, Cobalion or Necrozma, and Grassy Terrain boosted Wood Hammer lets it severely chunk most neutral targets, and even frailer resists like Tsareena or Roserade. Rillaboom also has access to great moves like Knock Off, High Horsepower and Drum Beating to cripple most of its switch-ins, U-turn to preserve momentum on choiced sets, or Swords Dance to make it a terrific wallbreaker. It also has more uncommon options like Mega Kick that lets it lure and take out Noivern.
Pelipper without Drizzle, on the other hand, was disappointing. While it has some interesting moves in its arsenal, namely Knock Off and U-turn, its lackluster stats compared to other bulky water-types means it struggles to make use of those useful moves, and it becomes extremely hard to justify using Pelipper over the likes of Rotom-Wash, Mantine or Milotic.
We have tons of new things to test now that the DLC dropped, so let's go for a 3-mons week this time around.
(Indeedee-F works too)
Indeedee has been relatively uncommon in UU for quite some time apart from some screens cheese with Psychic terrain to block priorities, but it now has access to Expanding Force, an decently strong move that gets a 1.5x boost to its power when Psychic Terrain is up. Will this simple move be enough to give Indeedee an opportunity to shine, or will it fall back into irrelevance straight away ?
Just like Indeedee, Barraskewda is another Pokemon that fell out of favor as time went on that got a shiny new toy in its arsenal, Flip Turn, that acts as a weaker, water-type U-turn. Is this momentum-grabbing tool enough to let Barraskewda find a niche ?
Scyther is back with the DLC, and it has been gifted with Heavy-Duty Boots and a powerful new STAB move, Dual Wingbeat, a 40 BP two-hit move that gets boosted by Technician. Is this truly what Scyther needed to finally be relevant, or do its crippling flaws still hold it back too much to truly shine ?
In order to participate you must do the following:
Grassy Surge Rillaboom has proven to be a dominant presence in the metagame. Its ability provides invaluable support to a ton of Pokémon, providing additional passive recovery alongside a resistance to Earthquake and activating Grassy Seed, proving extremely beneficial to the likes of Incineroar, Toxtricity, Copperajah, Cobalion or Necrozma, and Grassy Terrain boosted Wood Hammer lets it severely chunk most neutral targets, and even frailer resists like Tsareena or Roserade. Rillaboom also has access to great moves like Knock Off, High Horsepower and Drum Beating to cripple most of its switch-ins, U-turn to preserve momentum on choiced sets, or Swords Dance to make it a terrific wallbreaker. It also has more uncommon options like Mega Kick that lets it lure and take out Noivern.
Pelipper without Drizzle, on the other hand, was disappointing. While it has some interesting moves in its arsenal, namely Knock Off and U-turn, its lackluster stats compared to other bulky water-types means it struggles to make use of those useful moves, and it becomes extremely hard to justify using Pelipper over the likes of Rotom-Wash, Mantine or Milotic.
We have tons of new things to test now that the DLC dropped, so let's go for a 3-mons week this time around.
(Indeedee-F works too)
Indeedee (M) @ any item
Ability: Psychic Surge
IVs: 0 Atk
- Expanding Force
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Indeedee-F (F) @ any item
Ability: Psychic Surge
IVs: 0 Atk
- Expanding Force
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Ability: Psychic Surge
IVs: 0 Atk
- Expanding Force
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Indeedee-F (F) @ any item
Ability: Psychic Surge
IVs: 0 Atk
- Expanding Force
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Barraskewda
Ability: whatever they both suck
- Flip Turn
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Ability: whatever they both suck
- Flip Turn
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Scyther @ any item
Ability: Technician
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Ability: Technician
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In order to participate you must do the following:
- Post here with a fresh RW alt (such as SSRW14 Daiyaga or SSRW14 Cake) and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
- Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
- Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!
- Post logs of this Pokemon in action against other teams - don't just tell us, show us
- The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown UU ladder with their RW alt at the time the challenge ends. Winners will also receive a permanent spot in this thread's Hall of Fame.
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