Resource SS ZU Viability Rankings - Update @67 [Locked due to DLC 2]

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5gen

jumper
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
Welcome to the SS ZU Viability Rankings. In this thread, Pokemon are ranked based on their ability to function within the ZU Metagame. This includes many factors, such as versatility, effectiveness, ability to handle metagame trends, size of niche, and several others. Since these are likely to be highly contested, there are a few rules to abide by:
  • Post reasoning. Posts like ‘Mudbray should go to B because it has Stamina ’ will be deleted and possibly infracted. You are expected to give sound logic for the nominations you make. Any one-liners will be deleted and possibly infracted.
  • Be civil. It doesn’t matter how heavily you disagree with a post, at the end of the day it’s an opinion posted by another person so throwing insults at them isn’t gonna be okay.
  • No discussion of future bans, suspects, or metagames. We aren’t gonna raise something because may drop or a change may happen in a future metagame, no matter how likely it is.
  • If you want to nominate a currently unranked Pokemon to be ranked, replays are a requirement. Preferably, these are replays against high level players so that you really show us that this Pokemon can put in work.
  • At the same time, do not base your entire argument around replays and usage statistics. It’s important to show why this Pokemon performs, not just that it does.
Pokemon within sub-ranks are ordered alphabetically. There will be no D rank unless council agrees to have one in the future. C ranks will not have sub ranks to start. The council focused on the A and B ranks and will dedicate more time to discussing the C ranks and updating them in the near future.

Also, the Pokemon’s names in this thread link to sample sets!

New Pokemon
(New, potentially viable NFEs)
:electabuzz: Electabuzz
:gabite: Gabite
:grovyle: Grovyle
:lairon: Lairon
:magmar: Magmar
:marshtomp: Marshtomp
:metang: Metang
:shelgon: Shelgon

S
:klang: Klang
:stonjourner: Stonjourner

A+
:gourgeist: Gourgeist-L
:vespiquen: Vespiquen

A
:hattrem: Hattrem
:ivysaur: Ivysaur
:mr_mime_galar: Mr. Mime-G
:pikachu: Pikachu
:politoed: Politoed
:silvally: Silvally-Ice
:whiscash: Whiscash

A-
:beheeyem: Beheeyem
:dusclops: Dusclops
:hippopotas: Hippopotas
:machoke: Machoke
:mudbray: Mudbray
:mr_mime: Mr. Mime
:raichu: Raichu
:vullaby: Vullaby

B+
:emolga: Emolga
:fraxure: Fraxure
:grookey: Grookey
:persian: Persian
:stoutland: Stoutland
:lunatone: Lunatone
:pyukumuku: Pyukumuku
:zweilous: Zweilous

B
:beartic: Beartic
:bellossom: Bellossom
:charjabug: Charjabug
:dedenne: Dedenne
:glalie: Glalie
:krokorok: Krokorok
:lampent: Lampent
:linoone_galar: Linoone-G
:morgrem: Morgrem
:oranguru: Oranguru
:palpitoad: Palpitoad
:seaking: Seaking
:shiinotic: Shiinotic
:slowpoke: Slowpoke
:solrock: Solrock
:wigglytuff: Wigglytuff

B-
:corsola: Corsola
:dugtrio: Dugtrio
:hakamo-o: Hakamo-o
:meowstic: Meowstic
:wartortle: Wartortle

C+
:duosion: Duosion
:eiscue: Eiscue
:meowstic-f: Meowstic-F
:octillery: Octillery
:sudowoodo: Sudowoodo
:togetic: Togetic
:torracat: Torracat
:vibrava: Vibrava
:whirlipede: Whirlipede

C
:bronzor: Bronzor
:carkol: Carkol
:dunsparce: Dunsparce
:farfetchd: Farfetch'd
:gloom: Gloom
:greedent: Greedent
:honedge: Honedge
:koffing: Koffing
:lickitung: Lickitung
:maractus: Maractus
:munchlax: Munchlax
:shedinja: Shedinja
:sliggoo: Sliggoo
:vulpix_alola: Vulpix-A

C-
:drakloak: Drakloak
:drilbur: Drilbur
:gastly: Gastly
:natu: Natu
:scraggy: Scraggy

Initial VR - May 2020
VR Update #1 - June 2020
VR Update #2 - July 2020
August 2020 Viability List
VR Update #3 - August 2020
VR Update #4 - September 2020
VR Update #5 - October 2020
 
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OranBerryBlissey10

is a Tiering Contributor
NUPL Champion
Hello everyone, I'd like to make the following nominations:

:Beartic: B to A- 130 base attack combined with a wide movepool is obviously threatening, and its biggest flaw, being its low speed is fixed when put on Rain or Hail teams. Being the most prominent sweeper for two weather archetypes is nothing to sneeze at. Can definitely also function outside of weather with priority and/or CB sets having a lot of immediate offensive pressure.

:Vullaby: B- to B+ Very similar to Togetic being a bulky defogger, but also has access to Knock Off and U-Turn. Physdef Brave Bird sets are also useful for dealing with Machoke. Being three ranks lower than Togetic is not warranted.

:Greedent: C to B+ Has amazing bulk which can be amplified through the use of Amnesia/Stuff Cheeks which works well with a Liechi or Ganlon Berry allowing for a Cotton guard boost combined with Body Press, or a set with both offensive and defensive power. On top of that, Belly Drum sets are easy to pull off thanks to its natural bulk combined with Cheek Pouch, allowing you to get back at full health after using Belly Drum. Sweeping with this is hard because of its abysmal speed, but claiming one or two mons shouldn't prove too difficult. This thing would also be a threatening Trick Room sweeper.

:Wailord: C to B- Can definitely pull off bulky sets, but is commonly used as a scarfer. Spamming Water Spouts can give teams without a water resist a hard time. Fits nicely on Rain teams and also has access to Clear Smog, which can be very useful when getting swept. It's a bit predictable though and it doesn't help that the two best stallmons are water types.

:Silvally-Bug: and :Silvally-Ice: B+ to A- both Bug and Ice might not be very useful types in this meta, but a terryfying setup sweeper as Silvally with great coverage and speed should be ranked higher. Every Silvally can also provide useful team support in Defog, Tailwind and P-shot. At this point, do I really have to explain why Silvally is good?

:Pyukumuku: A- to A+ While Pyukumuku on its own represents the perfect combination of terror and annoyance, it can be dealt with using dedicated checks. Put it on a full-fledged stall team though, and it becomes a nightmare. As long as the opposing Pyukumuku is alive, almost all setup strategies are rendered useless. Only a mon that beats it without boosts, like Silvgrass, can set up on it. And yes, I know you can pp-stall it, even with Spite and Rest, but this usally takes 3 (at least 2) mons to do so, and even then you're not in the clear. Just it being there can spell your end, since it is usally paired with Toxic Spikes and/or Toxic. Imagine you send out Silvgrass to deal with it and it gets poisoned. Pyukumuku swaps and all your opponent has to do is wait for Silvally to slowly die. Unless you have two checks, winning can then prove to be very difficult.

:Drakloak: B+ to C This mon is the epithome of something that sounds good on paper, but just doesn't work. It has 4 somewhat useful common sets, and all of them are flawed:
1.Dragon Dance: Only advantage gained from the extra speed is outspeeding scarfers and TO Linoone, while its physical STAB is unreliable.
2.Wisphex: Cursed Body and Disable are boons, but the bulk is horrendous.
3.Specs: Even Draco Meteor deals laughable damage and fails to KO mons with a 4x weakness.
4.Band: U-Turn is great, but Phantom Force is too exploitable and its dragon STAB is either Outrage (death by fairies) or Dragon Rush (have fun missing three times in a row or flinch-haxing) imo this set is the least bad.

:Bronzor: C to C- There are plenty of mons that click Toxic and Rest, why use this thing? Stealth Rock isn't enough to justify using this thing. Losing Psywave screwed Bronzor hard. It has a niche in NFE as a Pilo check, but here it's just outclassed.

:Onix: B to C Sturdy combined with rocks and Explosion sounds nice, but its low spdef and two 4x weaknesses hold it back, especially since this tier has no shortage of water mons. Pulling off a Dragon Dance set is hard too, despite sturdy and decent speed. I have also seen Body Press sets, but Fighting resists are plentiful.

:Cufant: B to B- Low speed and defenses is not a good combo. It does have suprising power thanks to Sheer Force and its good movepool that synergize, so this mon might shine under Trick Room.

:Shellos: UR to C+ Mareanie and Pyukumuku give it tough competition, but it can definitely do things they can't as well as combine some of their traits. It has access to Stockpile, Acid Armor, Amnesia, Recover, Infestation, Counter, Mirror Coat and Clear Smog. It has setup moves, unlike Pyukumuku, but does have Counter and Mirror Coat. It can also set up without risk of counter-setup thanks to Clear Smog, which Mareanie can't do. On top of that, it gets Sticky Hold, so you'll always keep your eviolite. Even Trick doesn't work, so shutting Shellos down with Trick Gastly or Toxic Orb Linoone isn't an option. It can also check common threats like Eiscue or Tort (even with physdef investment) and remove their boosts. The amount of viable sets you can make with this mon is surprising. Here are some replays of Shellos performing well.

Here Shellos comes in on a Freeze-Dry Glalie and sets up. Realising they don't have a Shellos answer, my opponent forfeits:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1119338455

Shellos briefly outstalls a Mareanie and then burns some mons allowing for Scraggy to sweep:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1114645602
 

Cheezy

up on melancholy hill
is a Top Tiering Contributor
I'd like to make two noms.


Honedge from C to B-

Honedge has great physical bulk and an equally amazing typing (it resists all the Silvally in the tier STAB for an example). It's ability to check a lot of physical attackers in the tier like Machoke, all the Silvally without Flamethrower, Beartic and a lot more physically attacking Pokemon as well as checking Togetic and chipped Ghost types with Shadow Sneak and Iron Head. Being immune to T-Spikes and resistant to Rocks is also a massive boon.


Pupitar from B- to C

While Pupitar does work as a Rocker, it's typing is easily exploitable and many Pokemon in the tier can beat it before it gets Rocks up. It has pretty good bulk but it doesn't have reliable recovery to increase it's longevity. EdgeQuake STAB is nice but it is coming off of an average base 204 Attack. It's support move pool is pretty shallow with Stealth Rock and Toxic, which it will probably die before it can use it, Rest is okay recovery when paired with Sleep Talk or if it has a lot of bulk but it's bulk is average at best and you will have to give up Rocks or STAB to carry it, and it's too slow too use taunt.
 
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Hello, everybody! First of all I would like to say that the VR has a very good start so I don't have to report much.

Klang.gif

Klang A -> A+
Klang has already proven itself to be very useful and despite the small movepool Klang turns out to be very flexible. But I mainly want to talk about the RestTalk set, as it can work as a great glue for teambuilding.
Steel-typing is very effective in the meta, because Klang is able to resist any STAB of the Silvally forms (Bug, Grass, Ice, Psychic, Rock). The strongest options that the Sivallys have against Klang are: Fire Fang/Flame Charge (which might be boosted) or Flamethrower. If we look at the Wall of Calcs we see that Klang is able to hold its own in most situations.
Klang can be either physical Defense or Special Defense, but physical Defense tends to be more effective, especially for the Silvally matchup

Eviolite
252 Atk Silvally-Grass Flame Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Klang: 44-54 (13.5 - 16.6%) -- possible 6HKO
+4 252 Atk Silvally-Grass Flame Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Klang: 132-156 (40.7 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Silvally-Grass Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Klang: 58-70 (17.9 - 21.6%) -- possible 5HKO
+2 252 Atk Silvally-Grass Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Klang: 114-136 (35.1 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

So Klang is able to tank any kind of physical Silvally in a comfortable way. Fire Fang needs less set up, although Fire Fang is not a common option on a Silvally form.

252 SpA Silvally-Grass Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Klang: 122-144 (37.6 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
64 SpA Silvally-Grass Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Klang: 102-122 (31.4 - 37.6%) -- 89.2% chance to 3HKO

Even physically defensive Klang can easily have a special Silvally with Eviolite.

Non Eviolite
+4 252 Atk Silvally-Grass Flame Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Klang: 196-232 (60.4 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Silvally-Grass Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Klang: 170-202 (52.4 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

These calcs are of course much more situational, since the Silvally has a Knock Off lure in its team. Again Klang is tanking the Silvally, but there is less need for a Sword Dance.

252 SpA Silvally-Grass Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Klang: 180-214 (55.5 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
64 SpA Silvally-Grass Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Klang: 152-180 (46.9 - 55.5%) -- 74.6% chance to 2HKO

Only in this specific matchup Klang does come at a disadvantage. Klang has lost his Eviolite and Flamethrower offers enough damage. However, this is not the case for specially defensive Klang.


In addition, Klang is very much useful in another matchup, namely against Eiscue.
Klang's Steel typing offers here again a resistance for Eiscue's STAB and thanks to the high Defense, Klang also stands up against other coverage options. Gear Grind is very useful against Eiscue, as the first hit breaks Ice Face and the second hit does damage on the Eiscue-Noice form. Gear Grind also breaks a Substitute and Ice Face in 1 move.
In addition, Klang can also beat the Hail Stall set, because Gear Grind again clears the Sub and Ice Face and eventually defeats Eiscue.
In this matchup Eiscue Belly Drum clicks on the switch
+6 252 Atk Eiscue Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Klang: 99-117 (30.5 - 36.1%) -- 54.3% chance to 3HKO
+6 252 Atk Eiscue Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Klang: 133-157 (41 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

As you can see, Eiscue has no chance of getting Klang down after two hits. Eiscue clicks Belly Drum on the switch and Klang is on the field. There is no chance for Eiscue to get a Liquidation Defense drop, because Klang has Clear Body. The only way Eiscue defeats Klang is via Icicle Crash flinch or a Gear Grind dodge.

0 Atk Klang Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eiscue-Noice: 240-288 (82.4 - 98.9%) -- approx. 2HKO
0 Atk Klang Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Eiscue: 168-204 (49.7 - 60.3%) -- approx. 83.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Klang itself only has to do Gear Grind twice, as the first hit breaks Ice Face and the second hit on Eiscue-Noice doesn't do 50% damage.
In the second calc you can see that Klang is also strong enough to break a sub with 1 hit from Hail Stall Eiscue.

When Eiscue does Substitute on the switch, the fight is even better for Klang. Eiscue loses 25% HP by the Sub and Klang's Gear Grind breaks the Sub and Ice Face in one move. After that, Klang can take Eiscue again.

Now for the matchup versus Eiscue with Reversal. This is again in favor of Klang, as Klang has enough Defense.
Eiscue clicks again Belly Drum on the switch and Klang comes in. Then Eiscue Sub clicks to increase his Reversal BP and Klang Gear Grind. Gear Grind removes the Sub and Ice Face. Eiscue is now at 25% and Reversal is 80 BP.
+6 252 Atk Eiscue Reversal (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Klang: 250-296 (77.1 - 91.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO.
+6 252 Atk Eiscue Reversal (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Klang: 250-296 (77.1 - 91.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Klang also wins this matchup

So that's about Klang's most effective matchups in ZU. Of course Klang also has a few smaller niches besides.
Steel-Typing, for example, means an immunity for Toxic and Toxic Spikes. Klang also walls a reasonable part of the meta to name a few examples: Gloom, Lunatone (without Earth Power), Beartic and Morgrem.
Klang's other sets also have some effective niches. Specs Klang has only a small number of safe switches, thanks to the power of Steel Beam and Gear Grind Klang is a potentially dangerous cleaner that still offers a lot of bulk.

Ivysaur.gif

Ivysaur B -> B+
For this nom I'm mainly going to talk about the offensive set, as defensive Ivysaur Knock Off is the only over Gloom in the defensive area.
Ivysaur @ Eviolite
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 200 HP / 172 SpA / 136 Spe
Must Nature
- Knock Off
- Energy Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis / Leech Seed

172+ Spa is needed for a 2HKO with Energy Ball on Physical Defense / Mixed Mareanie after a Knock Off.
136 Speed allows Ivysaur to outpace a max Speed Modest Octillery
Rest of the EVs have been put in HP for extra bulk

The main reason why Ivysaur is very effective is because of its matchup against Mareanie. Thanks to Knock Off, Ivysaur can remove Mareanie's Eviolite and finish Mareanie with two strong Energy Balls. Ivysaur not only beats Mareanie, but can also absorb the Toxic Spikes and is immune to Toxic. The only disadvantage is that Ivysaur itself loses its Eviolite versus Mareanie.

Ivysaur also has a very strong matchup against other Eviolite Pokemon such as Togetic, Gloom and Machoke. Just like with Mareanie, you remove the Eviolite and finish them off with STAB moves.

Ivysaur is also a good way to lure certain Pokemon into the field and then remove the Eviolite from them. Think of Klang who completely walls Ivysaur. In this way, Ivysaur offers the team a good utility, so that the team can finish this mons later.

As I mentioned before, the typing of Ivysaur is very useful in many matchups. Thanks to the Poison-Typing, Ivysaur removes Toxic Spikes and absorbs Toxic. The Grass-Typing is also useful because Ivysaur is immune to Leech Seed and Sleep Powder from Gourgeist-Large and Gloom.
Ivysaur versus Mareanie (calcs after a Knock Off)
172+ SpA Ivysaur Energy Ball vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mareanie: 178-211 (58.7 - 69.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
172+ SpA Ivysaur Energy Ball vs. 248 HP / 92 SpD Mareanie: 156-184 (51.4 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
172+ SpA Ivysaur Energy Ball vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Mareanie: 114-135 (37.6 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Ivysaur has to aim for -SpD drop versus Specially Defensive Mareanie

Ivysaur versus Togetic
172+ SpA Ivysaur Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Togetic: 138-164 (44 - 52.3%) -- 91% chance to 2HKO
172+ SpA Ivysaur Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Togetic: 204-242 (65.1 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
172+ SpA Ivysaur Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Togetic: 152-180 (48.5 - 57.5%) -- 92.2% chance to 2HKO
Ivysaur doesn't have to click Knock Off against Physically Defensive Togetic.

Ivysaur versus Gloom
172+ SpA Ivysaur Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 4 SpD Gloom: 135-160 (41.7 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
So Gloom must have some chip to be defeated

Ivysaur versus Machoke
172+ SpA Ivysaur Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Machoke: 162-192 (44.5 - 52.7%) -- 23% chance to 2HKO
Another 2HKO after Knock Off

Ivysaur versus Gourgeist-Large
172+ SpA Ivysaur Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Gourgeist-Large: 136-162 (38.5 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Ivysaur can aim for the Sludge Bomb Poison here

So these were my nominations, I understand that this is a very long read, here in brief for those who are lazy.
1590341511742.png

+Resists all Silvally STABs
+Beats all Eiscue sets
+Immune to Toxic and Toxic Spikes
+Walls a great amount of Pokemon
+Multiple effective sets

1590341580117.png

+Very good matchup versus Mareanie
+Toxic and Toxic Spikes absorber
+Good matchup against Eviolite Pokemon thanks to Knock Off
+Lures Eviolite walls, like Klang
+Immune to Sleep Powder and Leech Seed

:Klang: :Klang: Thanks for reading!! :Ivysaur: :Ivysaur:
 
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Glalie: B -> B+
.....I'm not 100% sure about this, but I just wanted to bring it up to see what you guys thought. If you've seen the sample sets, you know that Glalie has three viable sets at the moment. I've technically used one similar to Spikes, but replacing Spikes with Freeze Dry as I already had a hazard setter, and it also lets me deal with PhysDef Mareanie and bulky Water-types should I come across them. But that's just the thing, Glalie can work as a hazard setter, which are fairly uncommon in this meta, and this set is also immune to hazards thanks to Heavy-Duty Boots. Earthquake (and Freeze Dry if you choose to run that) can help it deal with Mareanie, Icicle Crash is a decent physical STAB move that also has a flinch chance, and it has Ice Shard as a priority move to help it finish off opponents that narrowly survived its last move more safely.
.....But as I said, Glalie has two more sets, which gives it unpredictability. It can function as a Choice Specs user, which is especially dangerous on Glalie because the Spikes set is physical based, so your opponent doesn't know which category of moves they need to guard against until Glalie comes out. It also has a Stallbreaker set, that has Heavy-Duty Boots for hazard immunity, Taunt to cancel things like Rest, Recover, etc, Freeze Dry for Mareanie, Pyukumuku, Seaking, and other Bulky Waters, and a fairly flexible final move slot. It can run Spikes for Hazards, Super Fang for consistent damage against otherwise bulky opponents, and Dark Pulse, which allows Glalie to hit a fair amount of things super-effectively, in addition to having a flinch chance. As you’ve probably expected from me by now, I’ve only tried one set, but not having tried a set doesn’t mean I can’t talk about it a little.
  • Three different viable sets.
    • One of these sets is physical-based while the other two are special-based, which makes the unpredictability factor more significant.
  • Two of its sets both can function as a hazard setter and are immune to hazards, which is especially useful for Glalie as it’s normally weak to Stealth Rock.
  • A good movepool:
    • Icicle Crash for a physical STAB
    • Ice Shard as STAB priority
    • Freeze Dry which is a special STAB that can also hit Water-types
    • Earthquake to hit SpDef Mareanie, other Poison-types, Fire-types, and some others
    • Spikes as a hazard
    • Dark Pulse as a nice special coverage move
    • Taunt for countering stall
  • Inner Focus prevents it from being flinch haxed and protects it from Intimidate
.....As I said at the beginning, I’m not totally sure about this nom, but after trying Glalie out, I’m not sure that B is where it belongs, and I think B+ is more representative of what it can do. But please let me know what you guys think.
 

Greybaum

GENTLEMAN, THIS IS DEMOCRACY MANIFEST
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
I would like to echo OranBerryBlissey10 's noms for Silvally-Ice, Silvally-Bug, Pyukumuku and Vullaby in particular. He summed them up well, every Silvally bar Grass deserves a bit more respect than they're currently being given and Pyukumuku/Vullaby are increasingly necessary for role compression in this meta.


Here's a pair of hot takes

:morgrem: B to A-
Dual Screens is incredible in this meta and gives so many things reliable setup. Morgrem also compresses a check to either Silvally-Psychic or various Fighting-types (notably Machoke) depending on the set you run, but either way the archetype overall is incredible right now and Morgrem is by far the best mon you can slap onto a HO team overall because of all the defensive utility Screens provides. Taunt is also suprisingly valuable against fatter teams, preventing mons like Pyukumuku from roaming uncontested

:ivysaur: B to B+ or even A-
Move it up to the same level of Gloom. It's got Knock Off, and deserves the same ranking as Gloom just off the back of that; it's just as good as Strength Sap in this meta. That aside, Sunny Day & 3 Atks 6-0s any stall build that isn't carrying Dusclops and is fantastic glue for HO teams that need a way to check Silvally forms & absorb Toxic Spikes in one slot (The only one you don't check is Silvally-Psychic which is quite nicely handled by Morgrem; they're a good core).

Here's a hotter take

:delibird: Unranked to C+
Delibird @ Focus Sash
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Freeze-Dry
- Rapid Spin
- Memento

Delibird @ Focus Sash
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spikes
- Avalanche
- Rapid Spin
- Destiny Bond

If anyone doesn't know what Avalanche is for, it has negative priority. If you click Destiny Bond on a slower mon, then Avalanche the turn after, you can loop the two attacks and force the opponent to either sacrifice itself to take you out, PP stall Destiny Bond, or get forced out into a faster mon.

Anyway, Delibird's use is pretty self explanatory, so instead I want to focus on why you'd use it over its biggest competition in Glalie.
:morgrem::silvally::delibird::machoke::hakamo-o::ivysaur: (click for paste)

Here's a mediocre Screens team I eventually reworked entirely, but I think it does a good job of representing Delibird's niche. Glalie's main benefits over Delibird, in my eyes at least, is its ability to semi-reliably get Spikes up long-term over the course of a game as it better tanks hits from Defog users like Vullaby and Silvally-Grass while also having more general offensive presence. Delibird's niche, in contrast, is twofold in Rapid Spin and Memento.
Rapid Spin: While obviously matchup based due to the inclusion of Ghost-types, Rapid Spin is often just as good as Taunt and on occasion better, as demonstrated in these replays:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1123368741 vs NotInfernoMo
In this game, Glalie would have been stuck in a 50/50 whereby he has to either click Taunt to deny Rocks or get Spikes up. In contrast, Delibird can Rapid Spin after the hazards have already gone up, removing guesswork from the equation and reliably getting two layers of Spikes up in a situation where Glalie would always be limited to one.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1123378242 vs pitches / DurzaOffTopic
In this game, Delibird was able to spin mid-game, denying the rocks that Cufant set up (while also doing the same stuff Glalie would've in checking Shellder and getting spikes up)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1123371400 vs NormieGirl13
This is largely the same situation as the NotInfernoMo game, but it has an additional element which segues into the next section nicely.
Glalie realistically would have only gotten one spike up reliably in this situation, as I'd have been forced to click Taunt on the Boldore to deny it Stealth Rock, risking an immediate Body Press from Boldore. In contrast, Delibird got two layers up and a spin off, but a Ghost-type was present on the field. This matters, because yes, it means Delibird is not reliably denying hazards in this matchup. However, had NormieGirl13 gotten Stealth Rock up again on turn 3 I would have had a pretty free Memento on the switch to Dusknoir. With a -2 Dusknoir on the field and a free switch of my choice, Silvally-Psychic could have set up Swords Dance on turn 5 and at that point it's as good as over, with NormieGirl13 being forced to sacrifice 3 mons to take it out, unless my maths are off. This is all theoretical, but I hope it gets across the value of Memento nicely.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1123363025 vs SputnikGT
In this game, Delibird's Memento gives Ivysaur immediate setup vs the opposing Lunatone. Ivysaur would have been healthy enough to sweep in the end-game if he had clicked Psychic (252 SpA Lunatone Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Ivysaur through Light Screen: 96-114 (36.7 - 43.6%)) as a result, giving me much more breathing room to start doing damage early.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1123354767 vs Czim
This is a quick note to show that yeah, Glalie is better in some games, notably ones where Vullaby exists. You could adjust for this in the builder by packing set-up mons that do a better job of abusing it (particularly after a Memento) like Beartic or but this was an early team.

Here's a scorching hot take

:silvally: (Psychic) A to S

This mon is stupid dumb and breaks through 99% of the meta with like 5 moves (and one of them is Swords Dance).

Silvally-Psychic @ Psychic Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Multi-Attack
- X-Scissor
- Flame Charge

Most people know what Silvally (every form, really) does.
It sets up, breaks pretty much every defensive mon in the meta
+2 252 Atk Silvally-Psychic Flame Charge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Cufant: 206-244 (59.1 - 70.1%)
+4 252 Atk Silvally-Psychic Flame Charge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Klang: 184-218 (56.7 - 67.2%) (yes +4 but unless you're carrying PhysDef Toxic you're setup bait)
And is virtually impossible to revenge kill without HUGE amounts of chip
252 Atk Gourgeist Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Silvally-Psychic: 108-128 (32.6 - 38.6%)
252 Atk Linoone-Galar Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Silvally-Psychic: 150-176 (45.3 - 53.1%)

What Silvally-Psychic in particular does, which is why I feel it deserves S ranking over the other forms, is heavily abuse a huge amount of the defensive cores people are running for everything else in the meta. Gloom, Machoke, Mareanie, Togetic etc.
It gets a suprising number of opportunities to set up too - while it doesn't have any particularly good resistances, Ghost- and Bug-type coverage is not common at all, and Dark-type coverage is largely limited to Knock Off, which, lest we forget, is 65 BP when used against a Silvally form.

I want to make it clear that yes, Silvally-Psychic has defensive answers; Pyuku hardwalls every form except Grass, Morgrem can tank its hits and whittle at it with Dark Pulse, but a lot of these mons are very awkward to use outside of specific archetypes (Stall and Screens HO here). Outside of that, it feels like you're limiting yourself to specific counter-sets like Hail Eiscue and PhysDef Will-O-Wisp Solrock that quite frankly are not splashable at all and tend not to check much in the meta except (some) Silvally forms. PhysDef Klang is pretty much the one exception, answering Eiscue at the same time, but it's incredibly passive, vulnerable to chip (especially from Spikes) and in a meta where Machoke is A+ it becomes really easy to pressure it. Most of the players I see would rather sack something like Charjabug or Morgrem to get a Thunder Wave off and then just hope something else breaks through it afterwards (usually with a lot of luck involved if Silvally is carrying Flame Charge) because the opportunity cost of running a more reliable answer is very high.
Either way, Silvally-Psychic does have the most spammable STAB move, the best all-around coverage in X-Scissor, and the most room for further exploration (Fat SubSD is a set I'll certainly be trying out soon, and it's easy enough to swap out Flame Charge for U-Turn or Flamethrower to whittle away at walls or more easily take out Eiscue and PhysDef Cufant, respectively) hence why I believe it deserves placement over mons like Silvally-Grass that trade a Pyuku matchup for a near insurmountable matchup against the likes of, in my experience more common mons such as Gourgeist and Gloom.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1118297208 vs Mrdin69. This doesn't actually help my argument at all, it's just a funny example of what Silvally can do when given an opportunity.
 

S1nn0hC0nfirm3d

aka Ho3nConfirm3d
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ZU Beta is nearly over, but before it goes out I'd like to nom some of the more impressive / underwhelming mons so far. Even though it has not been long since the first VR shift, a lot of uncertainties have been ironed out, and ZULT has helped gain an idea of what some high-level ZU beta play looks like. But before I go into my noms, I want to tackle the Silvally problem when it comes to making this VR:

Silvally Paradox


There are only 5 Silvally forms left at the end of ZU Beta, and almost every team and playstyle not only wants, but needs a Silvally form to function. This is because the of its Speed, power, natural bulk, sweeping potential, wallbreaking, and more; it's that raw potential that is unmatched by any of the other mons on the VR.

I'm going off the assumption that most players would agree that a Silvally form is mandatory, if not near mandatory, for teambuilding. And if this is the caee, does the VR really reflect that? Atm, only Silvally-Grass is A+, which makes it on par with other great mons to build with. However, these other mons are limited in playstles or have somewhat viable replacements / side grades. In comparison, Silvally forms are irreplaceable for all they are capable of.

What holds them back though is their competition with each other, and limitations in teambuilding for the other viable support for the typing. Silvally-Grass is a great sweeeper, but may have overlap with good Grass-type walls like Gourgeist-L, Gloom, and Ivysuar; the latter two also being Toxic Spikes absorbers, limiting teambuilding in that regard as well. Psychic is, as my later noms suggest, another phenomenal sweeper, but the roles of Oranguru and Lunatone replacements then come into question, as does using the team's Silvally form as a Knock Off switch in. This goes on with the other remaining forms, as does the heavy opportunity cost between not having the other forms together on a team via species clause.

This is the "Silvally problem" when it comes to making the VR, and is a paradox of sorts. How could these mons be so mandatory yet be on par or worse than interchangeable support? Silvally-Ice and -Bug preform great on their own right, and would be much better than other current B+ mons like Maractus and Dusknoir, but the fact that they compete with more viable forms is what limits them to this rank. Still, they're Silvally forms! They do great and have more potential inherently than Dusknoir, but again the species clause is such a heavy consideration, and more so in this case than any other I have had to deal with. This goes in circles...

I'm not sure what the best approach is to ranking the remaining forms. Having them in a rank all to themselves sounds interesting, and then they can be ranked only in accordance to themselves and not in reference to the rest of the meta. This of course is still on the assumption that we collectively agree that a Silvally form is near mandatory. Otherwise, could the current VR have any smaller tweaks to it to reflect the Silvally problem better? Or am I just making a mountain out of a molehill? Let me know, but i figured I'd get the ball rolling, and I'm anticipating that we'll still have multiple forms post-beta worth distinguishing.

Nominations
:silvally: (Psychic) A > S
:wartortle: B+ > A
:whiscash: B+ > A-
:cufant: B > B+ / A-
:gourgeist: B > B+
:ivysaur: B > A-
:dartrix: B- > B+
:scraggy: B- > B

Again going off the Silvally problem assumptions above, I believe if teams absolutely need a Silvally form, then Psychic is now the best pick. uhuhuhu7 has a great explanation that I agree with fully, and something I really want to highlight is that it has "the most spammable STAB move" amongst the forms. This is largely due to so many common defensive mons being vulnerable to it, and our Dark-types still fear U-turn / X Scissor. It also accomplishes the most in 3 coverage moves, where most other forms would like to have Psychic Fangs, Flame Charge, U-turn, and Rock Slide all together.

Wart is the second-most underrated mon on the VR atm imo. It is the best special sweeper we have, and its great bulk and power with its coverage and Torrent makes it an awesome wincon. Substitute makes it a ton more threatening, or Rapid Spin gives it the irreplaceable role of hazard control on offense that relies on momentum and its own hyper hazards. Some argue that Rapid Spin on SS sets makes Wart a lot worse as a sweeper, but I believe it still manages and ultimately just helps out HO teams in the long run so that Eiscue, Silvally, and Thievul aren't chipped too much. Regardless, Wart has a ton of usage and is one of the best offensive mons to have, and for that matter I believe it to be a solid A rank.

Whiscash has a great specs set that makes it probs the best special wallbreaker in the meta. Its coverage easily nails switch-ins, and its typing is pretty good for what its worth defensively. A lot of times it would like to have a little bit more utility, and that's why its nothing top tier, but still one of the best to build around and support.

Cufant has proved to fill two crucial, rarer roles for ZU teams in being an all-round Silvally check (and others with that blessed Steel typing) and a Stealth Rock user. Our hazard options are very limited, so being a wall that can provide them while checking very Silvally form, Eiscue without Reversal, and Lunatone without Earth Power is great. It competes with Klang as it lacks reliable recovery, and while its coverage is okay it's still a little underwelming in that end as well without status potential for example.

Regular Gourg has a ton of offensive merrit for it, and can even stall weaker physical attackers like Machoke and Cufant thanks to Synthesis. I think a priority Shadow Sneak with its strong coverage also makes it a worthwhile attacker for teams to try out, and LO sets have a ton of potential.

Ivysaur is the first-most underrated mon on the VR. I had some doubts during the first shift, but they've all disappeared. Its role as a stallbreaker / balance breaker is super valuable, and it is on par if not better than Gloom at this point, making the suggestion of it being a sidegrade more than plausible. I also agree fully with Tsareentje !

Dart was another mon that proved itself as being one of the better Defog users outside of Togetic. Offensively with BB and Knock, it threatens a ton; special def Mare is easily 2HKOd after it loses its Eviolite. The typing helps check Silvally-Grass and Machoke, which is a great role compression. In comparison, Toge is too slow and weak for these mons, and can succumb to SD + Rock Slide and Knock Off + Heavy Slam. Dart is a great pick for an offensive check to these mons and a Defog user, making it a worthwhile B+ rank.

Scraggy I believe is a pretty decent special wall that can soak up a handful of relevant attackers like Silvally-Psychic and Rock, Thievul, Lunatone lacking Moonblast, Gourgeist, and Drakloak. It also can take on Linoone if needed, and fires off a Knock Off on any switch in. As a wincon it is a little unreliable, but can easily still function. The inability to wall some special wallbreakers and sweepers like Oranguru, Wart, and Whiscash is annoying however, and the weakness to Fighting can be hard to work around. Still a good pick and glue for teams that need its typing, Knock, and status absorption.

:maractus: B+ > B
:octillery: B+ > B-
:solrock: B > B-
:pupitar: B- > C

Maractus competes with other Spike setters and viable Grass-types to the point that it can be hard to fit. Being mono-Grass is probably the most annoying thing about it, as Gloom/Ivy/Gourg all have much more usable sub typings. It also has an awkward spread trying to fit Leafstorm/Knock Off/Sucker Punch all in one set, and ultimately I think Glalie is just as good / better for Spikes.

Oct takes a drop because I believe it should be a full rank below from Whis. While it's stronger and has interesting coverage, Whis does more in 3 moves than Oct can do with 4. This is largely because of the Ground-typing and Earth Power complimenting Water coverage by nailing Mareanie and Klang, while Oct needs both Psychic and Fire Blast to really dent these mons. The slower Speed is also a big issue, and most teams would rather rely on Whis for wallbreaking than Oct in most cases.

Solrock and Pupitar are both becoming more and more niche and hard to fit as Stealth Rock users. I think most playstyles have found that Lunatone, Cufant, Onyx, and Hippopotas are their go-to hazard setters, while these two are generally downgrades. For that matter, they both should drop, as the other pros they have just aren't distinguishable enough from their higher-ranked competition.

 
:Drakloak: B+ to C This mon is the epithome of something that sounds good on paper, but just doesn't work. It has 4 somewhat useful common sets, and all of them are flawed:
1.Dragon Dance: Only advantage gained from the extra speed is outspeeding scarfers and TO Linoone, while its physical STAB is unreliable.
2.Wisphex: Cursed Body and Disable are boons, but the bulk is horrendous.
3.Specs: Even Draco Meteor deals laughable damage and fails to KO mons with a 4x weakness.
4.Band: U-Turn is great, but Phantom Force is too exploitable and its dragon STAB is either Outrage (death by fairies) or Dragon Rush (have fun missing three times in a row or flinch-haxing) imo this set is the least bad.
I don't disagree with this statement as a whole, but you realize no mon has a 4x dragon weakness right?

And other calcs show the situation is not nearly as dire as you make it out to be, though its still nothing impressive at all.

252 SpA Choice Specs Drakloak Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Machoke: 195-231 (53.5 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Drakloak Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Mareanie: 216-255 (71.2 - 84.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Drakloak Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Silvally: 204-240 (61.6 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (calc is same for all non resist forms)
252 SpA Choice Specs Drakloak Draco Meteor vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Gourgeist-Large: 246-291 (79.6 - 94.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (shadow ball is also a near guaranteed ohko)
252 SpA Choice Specs Drakloak Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Linoone-Galar: 193-228 (53.6 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Drakloak Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Gloom: 163-193 (50.3 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Again, not amazing calcs, but just draco alone does at least solid damage to this recovery lacking metagame. Coverage turns plenty of these draco 50%'s into clean 2hkos.

I think saying what your saying is a bit too much of an exaggeration.
 
Alright guys, it's time to rank the new mons! Let's go!

Persian: A-

Persian is currently the fastest pokemon in the meta and can run good sets. You can use it as a physical pivot or as a fast Nasty Plot Sweeper. Thanks to its coverage and technician, Persian can hit everything at least neutral. The pivot set is also great as well, being able to pivot out nicely out of unfavorable situations and also using Knock Off to cripple mons like Togetic and Gloom. Of course Persian has problems, like its lackluster attack but overall Persian seems to have a solid place here.

Pinchurrin: A

Pinchurrin is an incredibly useful mon, thanks to its ability to summon electric terrain, which pairs it nicely with Unburden Thievul. Not only that, but Pinchurrin has access to both regular spikes and tspikes, making it a great spike setter, since it threatens common defoggers like Vullaby and Togetic. It also has recovery, similar to Mareanie. Overall, I believe Pinchurrin will be a good mon here.

Slowpoke-Galar: Not sure

This one is a bit tricky. While with eviolite, Slowpoke has good physical bulk to check attackers like all vally forms bar grass, it is really weak to Thievul and is incredibly passive. Not only that, but its best ability is Own Tempo, because Regenerator is unreleased as of now. I think more tests are necessary to determine its ranking.
 

Funbot28

Banned deucer.
Alright guys, it's time to rank the new mons! Let's go!

Persian: A-

Persian is currently the fastest pokemon in the meta and can run good sets. You can use it as a physical pivot or as a fast Nasty Plot Sweeper. Thanks to its coverage and technician, Persian can hit everything at least neutral. The pivot set is also great as well, being able to pivot out nicely out of unfavorable situations and also using Knock Off to cripple mons like Togetic and Gloom. Of course Persian has problems, like its lackluster attack but overall Persian seems to have a solid place here.

Pinchurrin: A

Pinchurrin is an incredibly useful mon, thanks to its ability to summon electric terrain, which pairs it nicely with Unburden Thievul. Not only that, but Pinchurrin has access to both regular spikes and tspikes, making it a great spike setter, since it threatens common defoggers like Vullaby and Togetic. It also has recovery, similar to Mareanie. Overall, I believe Pinchurrin will be a good mon here.

Slowpoke-Galar: Not sure

This one is a bit tricky. While with eviolite, Slowpoke has good physical bulk to check attackers like all vally forms bar grass, it is really weak to Thievul and is incredibly passive. Not only that, but its best ability is Own Tempo, because Regenerator is unreleased as of now. I think more tests are necessary to determine its ranking.
The pokemon are not even implemented on the ladder. Usually timing for noms for newly dropped mons take a week at minimum before discussion should start since we need time to assess their placement in the tier.
 

5gen

jumper
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Similar to the NP thread, VR discussion has been derailed by people talking about Slowpoke-G and how Eviolite not working on PS! is an error. I've deleted three posts because of this. So here's a mini announcement for everyone looking to make noms: do not bring up discussion of unviable Pokemon unless you have replays and a strong case (no heavy theorymonning, test things) and avoid derailing the thread with unnecessary posts. Next time, notify me if I have not taken care of things.
 

5gen

jumper
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Hey all. The council is planning to have a VR update before the release of the DLC this month, so the thread will be locked on the 9th next week. As such, if you want to make any nomination, do it before then because I'll be locking the thread and no new nominations will be added. Council will then vote on the slate and the plan is to have an updated VR by the 16th or earlier.
 

Wartortle: B+ -> A-
Like my Glalie nom, I'm not sure about this one, but I have been getting decent success out of Wartortle's Shell Smash set. This set it very good, especially mid- or late-game. Firstly, this set can run Rapid Spin, which is a very good move. It can clear hazards on your side while leaving those on your opponents side up, which is great in ZU, and it increases your speed now. Next, Shell Smash, which makes your attacks way stronger, and with 120 Speed EVs, you can outspeed Persian when you're at +2. Also at +2, Surf and Ice Beam are very dangerous, making Wartortle a very effective cleaner. There is also its dedicated Rapid Spin set, which I haven't tried (were you expecting me to have tried more than one set at this point lol) but unpredictability is always nice. However, if you want a more offensive Wartortle, you can run Rapid Spin over Substitute on the Shell Smash set, which I haven't really regretted. Like I said, I could see how you would think that Wartortle should be B+, but personally, I think A- is more accurate for it.


Ivysaur: B -> B+: Agree
I know this nomination has already been made multiple times, but I just wanted to express my agreement. Even with Mareanie gone, Ivysaur can still be quite effective. And I'm not just talking about the Physical Wall set that's linked here, the offensive set is also pretty good. It's got Knock Off, which is a good move, Energy Ball and Sludge Bomb are strong STABs, it has reliable recovery in the form of Synthesis, and Leech Seed which can be run for slow draining. I don't really have much to say that hasn't already been said, but I do agree that B is underselling Ivysaur.
 

Tuthur

formerly 0-7 in FCL
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:pincurchin: New -> A+
Pincurchin is one of the best Pokémon in ZU thanks to the amazing support it brings. First it is the best hazard setter in the tier, it threatens the most common hazard control (Togetic, Wartortle, Vullaby) with its super effective STAB electric-terrain boosted Discharge. Additionally, while Pincurchin's bulk isn't amazing, it is high enough to come on most defensive mon like Cufant, Togetic, and Klang. Furthermore, Electric-terrain's support is great to prevent the recovery from a lot of defensive Pokemon like Machoke, Klang, and Zweilous.

:persian: New -> A+
Persian is a staple in offensive team. It has a great speed tier and movepool that makes it the best revenge killer in the tier and one of the best offensive pivot, but also gives it tool against bulkier Pokemon (Knock Off or Taunt).

:thwackey: C -> A-
Thwackey with its Hidden Ability is extremely potent, it hits extremely hard with Wood Hammer, can punish Eviolite users with Knock Off, and pivot with U-turn. The grassy terrain support is also great because it gives passive recovery to pokemon like Cufant, Klang, and Machoke, but also allows Thievul to setup its Unburden.

:raboot: B- ->A+
Raboot is dumb. Without Mareanie and Pyukumuku, and with Libero, Raboot is now extremely hard to wall, since most Fire-resists can't switch into Raboot's coverage (Sucker Punch, U-turn, High Jump Kick). It also has one of the strongest priority available with Sucker Punch, which means you can't always handle it with the few faster Pokemon (Persian, Linoone, Drakloak and Vally).

:ivysaur: B -> A-
Ivysaur is THE Toxic-Spikes absorber for more offensive teams, its access to Knock Off, good speed tier and powerful Leaf Storm makes up for Gloom's Strength Sap and additional bulk. It is a necessity in most bulky offense team that don't want to lose Pincurchin.

:wartortle: B+ -> A
Wartortle lost its two biggest defensive answers in Pyukumuku and Mareanie. It is bulky enough to find setup opportunity and lives strong priorities like Raboot's Sucker Punch and Persian's Fake Out.

:togetic: A+ -> A/A-
Togetic is just not that good. It is very passive and it loses to Pokemon that have been rising in popularity like Ivysaur, Cufant and Pincurchin.

:thievul: A- -> A
Thievul sets up more easily thanks to the addition of Electric Surge Pincurchin and Grassy Surge Thwackey. But this also freed a move slot, for either Taunt, Protect or Grass Knot. Taunt allows it to defeat Pokemon like Vullaby that rely on Toxic-stall to beat it but also prevents defog. Protect allows Thievul to rack passive recovery from Grassy Terrain or chip damages from Pincurchin's Toxic Spikes, but also protects it from Persian's Fake Out.

:dartrix: B- -> B+
Dartrix is the best hazard remover that doesn't hard lose to Pincurchin. While Pincurchin's arrival isn't enough to justify a rise of two subranks, I believe that Dartrix's viability in the previous meta was underestimated. It's the only Defogger you can fit in an offense and has great utility thanks to its great bulk even without investment, ability to check Machoke, access to Knock Off and reliable recovery.

:vullaby: B- -> B+
Just like Dartrix, I believe Vullaby is underestimated in the current VR. It is the second best Defoger after Togetic, has some strong tools in Foul Play (deals massive damages to Vallies), Knock Off, U-turn, and is the best Psychic check in the tier.

:silvally:
A+ -> A
Without Pyukumuku, GassVally lost the advantage over the other forms to be able to break though it. But it also now competes with Thwackey has a Grass-type wallbreaker. While it is obviously better than Thwackey at it, Thwackey doesn't take the Silvally slot.

:silvally:
A -> S
PsyVally is extremely hard to wall because of the perfect coverage provided by Multi-Attack/Flame Charge/X-Scissor. With Pyukumuku leaving the tier, and Klang losing in popularity, PsyVally is even harder to wall and is the tier's premier wallbreaker.

:silvally:
A- -> A+/S
RockVally just like PsyVally appreciates Pyukumuku's absence and Klang's loss in usage, but is harder to revenge kill because its resists Persian's Fake Out, isn't weak to Thievul's Dark Pulse, and takes little from Linoone's attacks. However, it has more common weakness than PsyVally and can struggle to find setup opportunities.

:silvally:
B+ -> A-
Pyukumuku hard countered IceVally, while Mareanie forced it to run Psychic Fangs. Now IceVally doesn't have to worry about them anymore and can forgoe Psychic Fangs for Rock Slide (which hits Torracat and Raboot).

:cufant: B -> A-
The best rocker. Ho3n explained pretty well why it is so good.

:hakamo-o: B- -> B+
This is an underrated threat. It 6-0es so many build that lacks Togetic or Shedinja with its SubDD set. It also checks pretty well Raboot and Thwackey which is pretty nice since they are both pretty hard to check.
Edit: I got some heat Hakamo-o's replays
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1129194478
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1129189854

:morgrem: B -> B+
I don't know why this is so low. Prankster Thunder Wave is so potent in this offensive metagame, but it is also a strong offensive check to two of the most powerful sweepers in the tier in PsyVally and Thievul.

:natu: B+ -> C
Natu is far to frail to check anything and isn't reliable as a hazard remover since it only beats Cufant, Hippo and Mudbray. Almost no team can afford to give a slot to something as niche as Natu.

While I don't have replays from :frillish:, i think it should be ranked somewhere, since it rose in popularity lately as an Eiscue, Raboot and Wartortle check, and as a Mareanie/Pyukumuku replacement.
 
Last edited:
Hello everyone, this is my first post so I hope I'm doing it right.
Nominations :

:Persian: new >A+
:Persian: is the fastest unboosted mon in the tier allowing it to be an excellent revenge killer. It works very well on offence builds as technician boosted fake out can deal significant damage sets up mons like the :silvally: forms, :Thievul:, :wartortle: and :eiscue:. It also works very well with spike staking as having access to fake out , u-turn and taunt allows you to keep hazards up whilst you wear your opponents team down which allows :silvally: to easily sweep the rest of the team. :Persian: also has a nasty plot set which in my opinion is very inferior.This set could be used effectively with a surprise factor though, for example bluffing fake out and then nasty plotting on the switch. The downside of Persian is it base 70 attack stat which is not super high and poor defences. However because of its high speed stat you can run adamant whilst still out-speeding everything bar dragupulk timid/jolly dragupult.

some calcs :
Fake out double edge combo 80% minumum

252+ Atk Silk Scarf Technician Persian Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Silvally-Psychic: 91-108 (27.4 - 32.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Persian Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Silvally-Psychic: 180-213 (54.3 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Fake out double edge combo 40% minumum
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Persian Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Silvally-Rock: 90-106 (27.1 - 32%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Technician Persian Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Silvally-Rock: 45-54 (13.5 - 16.3%) -- possible 7HKO
Wartortle
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Technician Persian Fake Out vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Wartortle: 105-124 (40.5 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Technician Persian Fake Out vs. -1 72 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Wartortle: 105-124 (37.9 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Theival
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Technician Persian Fake Out vs. 238 HP / 0 Def Thievul: 135-159 (39.7 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Technician Persian Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thievul: 135-159 (48 - 56.5%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO
Eiscue
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Technician Persian Fake Out vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Eiscue-Noice: 117-138 (40 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Persian beating silvally, wartortle and theival - https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1126844567


:raboot: B- > A+
So with the release of :raboot: hidden ability libero which changes its type to the move its using giving it stab on everything has turned it into a monster. :Raboot: has an excellent stat distribution with both very good attack and speed as well as an excellent move-pull including flare blitz ,high jump kick, gunk shot, u-turn , sucker punch, taunt and bulk up. :Raboot: has 3 very good sets being scarf, band and bulk up with my favourite being banded. Similar to :Persian:, :Raboot: is also fortunate enough to be able to run adamant whilst still outspeeding threatening positive speed nature base 80's such as :glalie:, :Gastly: and buddy HA :Thwackey:. The only notable mon that out-speeds in :torracat: which cant do much :Raboot: anyway.

Some calcs
252 Atk Choice Band Libero Raboot U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lunatone: 368-434 (114.6 - 135.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Libero Raboot U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Silvally-Psychic: 300-354 (90.6 - 106.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Libero Raboot U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Silvally-Rock: 150-177 (45.3 - 53.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Libero Raboot High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Machoke: 237-279 (65.1 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

:Frillish: UR > B+
With the removal of 2 key water types :Pyukumuku: and :Mareanie: and 3 ghost type spin blockers :Gourgeist: , :Dusclops: and :Dusknoir: there is a massive opening for :wartortle: as it can now shell smash and sweep and spin freely(whoops this turned into a wartortle nomination). :Frillish: is a mon that can fill the huge void left by the tier changes with is max hp, max defence set of will-o-wisp strength sap, scald and hex/night shade. The set is compare to :gloom: which is an A- mon and in my opinion almost as good now that :Mareanie: is gone with frillish trading t-spikes absorption for being able to spin block. Another plus of :Frillish: is being a check to the new monster :raboot: which is on most people teams right now and also soft checking :silvally: forms bar grass as it can live a plus 2 multi attack after rocks. I might be jumping the gun a bit on :Frillish: with the new toy syndrome but for this crazy meta right now I think my nomination is valid.

some calcs
252+ Atk Choice Band Raboot Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Frillish: 88-104 (28 - 33.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Silvally-Psychic Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Frillish: 115-136 (36.6 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Silvally-Psychic Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Frillish: 229-270 (72.9 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Sorry for the lack on replays I did the on a whim so didn't have many replays saved. Finally I just want to share a team I made with these 3 mons together which got me to 1450 on ladder. The team is definitely not perfect and but it it pretty fun to play. Also theival under terrain with protect sweeps if luna dies :(
:totodile::totodile::totodile::totodile::totodile::totodile::totodile::totodile::totodile::totodile::totodile::totodile::totodile::totodile::totodile::totodile::totodile::totodile::totodile::totodile::totodile::totodile::totodile::totodile:
Team - https://pokepast.es/a06dd38db7685472
 
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Funbot28

Banned deucer.
Ok so with the ladder tour going on and the metagame rapidly progressing, I think I have a grasp on the tier to make some noms and echo what others have said thus far:

New Drops:

:Persian: -> A+
Persian is simply amazing in the tier and greatly benefits on the lack of speed control that most teams had prior, where most of the revenge killing metagame revolved around either Silvally speed tie wars or Linoone-G either with it's standard Eviolite set or the Toxic Orb + Quick Feet set that used to be a great form of speed control, but was chipped down rather quickly throughout the match. Persian, with it's high speed tier and access to a strong Fake Out, acts as a great means to deter common offensive threats like Silvally, Eiscue, and Wartortle. Its coverage is also suitable enough to threaten most teams, with Double Edge + Knock Off + U-Turn hitting most of the tier at least neutrally while more fringe options like Water Pulse can help bypass certain checks like Onix. Over all, Persian is simply a top tier revenge killer in this meta and is a great answer to all the offense spam thats going on rn so I am happy it dropped.

:Pincurchin: -> A+
Alongside Persian, Pinchurchin has also radically impacted the tier with its hazard support set, being a Spikes setter that can pressure out all forms of hazard removal which is simply amazing in a tier that is already not too diverse in that department. It also packs quite a bunch with it's Electric Terrain boosted STAB attacks while also having a rather deep movepool with options like Scald, Toxic Spikes, Memento, and Recover of course to make it a nuisance to the majority of the tier. We can also not avoid the fact on how well it pairs with Electric Seed Thievul, a deadly offensive core that can really blow through most teams rn. So ye, I believe A+ is justified for this thing too.

Rises:
:silvally:
A -> S
PsychicVally has really grown on me lately as I have been building with it more and more and I must admit as well, it is definitely the most impactful / viable Vally form in the tier rn. Not only can it threaten out nearly everything with Multi Attack + X-Scissor / U-turn + Flame Charge alone, but its useful resistances and option to even run support Defog sets and mixed attacking sets viably has truly made it stand out from the other Vally forms in my eyes. Considering how common defensive pokemon like Machoke, Gloom, and Togetic are right now, I really think PsychicVally abuses these defensive cores the most despite having offensive checks like Linoone-G, Thievul, and Persian running around in the tier. I agree that this should be our only S-rank as of now.

:silvally:
A- -> A/A+
Never agreed with this being in A- either since I feel it's really underselling how deadly its offensive prowess is as well. Rockvally has the niche of acting as a great check to common revenge killers like Persian and Linoone-G. It's SD sets are also phenomenal with coverage in Psychic Fangs and Flame Charge and only find it losing out in edge versus PsychicVally due to the fact that it can be forced out by mons like Wartortle and Thwackey. But still, with Pyukumuku leaving the tier I think this mon just got better so I rise for it is justified especially now.

:Thievul: A- -> A+
With Pinchurchin bringing like to Electric Seed Unburden sets, Thievul just got a brand new chance in sweeping most teams lol. After a Nasty Plot boost, there really is not much in the tier that can handle it besides specific checks like Togetic, Specially Defensive Cufant and a bulky Machoke. Even revenge killers in Persian just cannot deal with Protect variants as well which truly makes Thievul the top fox in terms of special sweepers in the tier rn.

:Wartortle: B+ -> A+
This mon benefited the most from the most recent tier shift with Mareanie and Pyukumuku leaving definitely. Shell Smash sets are super deadly and can quite often find ways in setting up thanks to the added bulk from Eviolite. Utility via Rapid Spin is just the cherry on top while other options like Substitute and Protect are other options I have seen. Ye this mon is broken plz ban.

:Ivysaur: B+ -> A-
This should have initially started in the same rank as Gloom but people brought it up again and I could not agree more. Not only are offensive sets way less passive then Gloom but the fact that it can remove Eviolite from common switchins like Klang, Vullaby, and Drakloak is truly amazing. Not much else to add here.

:Cufant: B -> A-/A
This is the tier's best SR user as of now due to the rise of Speically Defensive sets being a great form of blanket checking a lot of dangerous threats. It's offensive coverage is also really nice with options like Zen Headbutt, Power Whip, and High Horsepower being a nice lure for a lot of switchins, while utility options like Whirlwhind and Rest being nice forms of deterring threats / sustaining itself respectively.

:Raboot: B- -> A/A+
Libero really just made this mon amazing haha. Band and Scarf sets have been my favorite so far of course but I have also seen Bulk Up sets putting in a lot of work too. It really can break through most teams thanks to it's STAB boosted coverage going well against most of the tier really nice. While being weak to SR initially does suck and it's bulk is nothing outstanding, I do think that Raboot if an offensive powerhouse in the tier right now and is really spashable shockingly.

:Thwackey: C -> B+
Admittedly, I have not used Thwackey that much as of yet, where most of my experience comes from using Scarf sets but it is still really nice abuser of Grassy Terrain boosted Wood Hammer. It does suck that most of the tier inherently preps for it due to the popularity of GrassVally but I still think that SubSD sets and CB sets can work around some checks and I think C would of course be underselling it as of now.

Drops:
:silvally:
A+ -> A/A-
I think other Vally forms have been taking some shine away of GrassVally rn. Especially since most teams don't need to rely on a Vally form that can break Unaware Pyukumuku since that mon is gone. The popularity of counteplay like Cufant, Ivysaur, Vullaby, and Klang is also not offering GrassVally any favors and in general offensive RockVally and PsychicVally are just kinda a tad better rn imo.

:Togetic: A+ -> A
I agree with the metagame becoming more offensive that Togetic kinda struggles to fit in as of now. Its just too passive of a mon to fit on the majority of the most common teams like it could have done prior in the Mareanie meta. It is still the tier's best defensive Defog user for sure, but a lot of threats can just kinda abuse it and use it as setup fodder and the popularity of Pinchurchin just further decreases it's viability.

I am gonna stop my post rn before it gets too long lol, but I also agree with drops of Xatu and rises of Morgrem, Dartrix, and IceVally.
 
Before I start I just wanna echo Tuthur and Ho3n's overall great posts and add a few other noms and change some subranks. Also i wanna give a shoutout to Funbot28 for stealing a lot of my nominations when I was about to finish this post :psyduck:. Buckle up because this is gonna be a long one.

With the loss of Mareanie and Pyukumuku, and Pincurchin coming to the tier which severely hurts mons that depends on Rest to have defensive roles such as Klang and Machoke, the meta has become much more offensive, and those next nominations are gonna reflect that. We also got a crazy breaker in Raboot and a great tool for hyper offense in Persian.

:Persian: :Pincurchin: NEW -> A/A+ - Both of these mons are the face of the metagame right now, being extremely important in their roles. I'm not getting too deep in these 2 because people already said why they are good. It's been not even a week so they may drop a bit, but i doubt it'll be below A. They really feel like A+ mons at the moment though!

RISES

:Onix: - B -> B+/A- - The most reliable rocker for offense builds, while also being able to check both Persian and Pincurchin reliably, while being able to Body Press common Taunters such as Glalie, Persian and Linoone-Galar.

:Morgrem: - B -> A- -> Screens are excellent in our setup spam meta right now to help Wartortle, Silvally, Eiscue and Thievul, and it's the go to Thievul check for offensive builds. It's access to Taunt and Thunder Wave also helps those same offensive builds keep their pressure up or work as speed control.

:Thievul: :Wartortle: - both to A+ - The most threatening mons in the tier that aren't Silvally forms, not only they lost checks or their checks are more pressured now, Thievul's freed moveslot and Wartortle's role compression with Rapid Spin make them almost mandatory in offense, the most dominant archetype at the moment.

:Raboot: - B- -> A - I believe A+ is pushing it, the metagame is slowly adapting to Raboot and balanced builds are finding answers to the Choice Band set with Lampent and Frillish for example. It's easy to wear down and being slower than Silvally and Stealth Rock weak makes it easy to force out and pressure. It's obviously a scary breaker and can run setup sets consistently well too. But I don't think it's on the A+ level atm.

:Thwackey: C -> B+ - Terrain is really cool but Thwackey has the problem of being a Grass type, and it competes for a slot with Silvally-Grass, Ivysaur, Gloom, Gourgeist-Large, Dartrix and Maractus. Other grasses usually offer more utility and Thwackey just misses in some crucial speed tiers for a Choice Scarfer, such as missing +2 Wartortle, and has coverage issues having to resort to moves like Drain Punch to damage steels and being unable to revenge kill Hakamo-O for example.

:Whiscash: B+ -> A- - The best Choice Specs user in the tier, has now much more defensive utility, With its great typing letting it handle Pincurchin, Silvally-Rock, Shift Gear Klang and soft check Raboot with ease while being almost impossible to switch into without predicting correctly.

:Cufant: :Ivysaur: :Vullaby: :Dartrix: to higher (mostly echoing these noms)
Those are all mons that were placed in lower tiers than they should've been in the first place. Not much really changed but echoing rises for all of them. Vullaby is still a very good Silvally-Psychic and Grass check that can barely be touched especially by Psychic, it also soft checks Thievul. Dartrix benefits from a good matchup versus Pincurchin and AoA Machoke not using Ice Punch. Ivysaur is just a sidegrade to Gloom that is better for more offensive builds. Cufant is our best rocker alongside Onix and soft checks all Silvally forms and Eiscue. (If i had to choose I'd say Cufant and Ivysaur to A-, Vullaby and Dartrix to B+/B)


:Seaking: C -> B- - Can easily switch into Pincurchin, Wartortle and Klang and be annoying with Knock Off, Toxic, Scald and other coverage options. This is still a bit underexplored but i feel the rise is warranted in this metagame.

:Mudbray: - C -> B - Mudbray is really good right now since it forces Pincurchin out, has access to Rocks and soft checks Persian because of Stamina absorbing Fake Out very well. It also has a sick 100 attack stat that lets it punish most switch ins while also having access to Toxic. Aside from Gloom, not much switches in for free.

:Sudowoodo: - C -> B/B- - Another offensive rocker that has been on the rise, it punishes all forms of hazard removal with its STAB Head Smash and amazing coverage in Wood Hammer. Also a Trick Room staple and should be ranked close to Solrock.

:Lampent: :Frillish: -> BOTH to B/B- - Both excel as Raboot answers that can just switch in for free and have been finding use in Bulky offense (in Lampents case) and Balance (in Frillish's case). Mareanie leaving the tier also helps both mons to be more threatening. Lampent is good Sub Calm Mind mon that takes advantage of pokemon that can't really touch it like Togetic, Klang and Beartic. Frillish can also counter Wartortle, the same Beartic and has Strenght Sap to check some Silvally forms that aren't Grass.

:Swirlix: :Delibird: :Purrloin: :Dottler: :Wooper: :Trubbish: :Skorupi: :Hatenna: :Drilbur: UR->C
I know the C rank is mostly irrelevant atm but here it goes. Swirlix is just a really underrated Sticky Web lead for HO builds, with access to Unburden and Endeavor, making defogging super hard versus it. Delibird is a good hazard lead that has a good matchup versus Onix, which is very good right now and warrants C rank imo, since you always win the lead matchup with at least 1 layer of spikes up. Purrloin is the best prankster rain setter that fills a role with Encore, Thunder Wave and U-turn, being the best setter for this playstyle. Dottler has some usage in stall builds as a Oranguru check that is also really fat overall. Wooper is the only Unaware mon for stall with Pyukumuku gone and soft checks all Silvally forms bar Grass, Wartortle and Eiscue. Trubbish and Skorupi have been seeing usage as hazard setters that can absorb Toxic Spikes, but are much inferior to Mareanie in doing so. With Pincurchin being in the tier, Hatenna is now an option to Natu that handles it. Drilbur is a good spinner/rocker that hard stops Pincurchin so i think it should also be ranked.


Other rises i'm echoing that I don't really wanna talk about
:Silvally: Psychic - A->S
:Silvally: Rock - A- -> A/A+
:Scraggy: B- -> B
:Hakamo-o: B- -> B+

DROPS

:Machoke: A+ -> A - I know i'm gonna get hate for this but Machoke lost a ton of utility without the ability to run defensive Restalk sets reliably, it's still a blanket check to pretty much everything in the tier and still should be ranked highly, but its low speed makes it less reliable against this offensively inclined metagame. It's also not fond of the Silvally-Psychic spam happening right now.

:Klang: A -> A- - Still good, still scary as a setup sweeper, but on the same boat as Machoke, and this can't even touch Pincurchin to add insult to injury. It's just not as reliable as it was a few weeks ago.

:Linoone-Galar: A -> A- - Persian is in the tier, and Thievul is really dominant as the main Dark-Type for most builds right now, this is a lot less needed and much harder to fit.

:Lunatone: A- -> B+ - Lunatone just feels more at home with the good but inconsistent B+ mons, since its usually not as reliable as Cufant for keeping rocks up. It's useful Choice Scarf set is now much less desired with Silvally-Psychic as the main form, since it's forced to run Shadow Ball or use the weak Power Gem to damage it considerably. It's also setup fodder for pretty much all the most threatening mons in the tier if it doesn't pack the right coverage.

:Octillery: B+ -> B - Poor man's Whiscash lost its main advantage over whiskers in Energy Ball, since it was able to heavily pressure Pyukumuku, and is now mostly used on Trick Room, B seems fair because it is still a scary wallbreaker.

:Maractus: B+ -> B- - Ivysaur and Gloom being used a lot just mean that this dude can't do much but set spikes, It gained competition from Pincurchin as a spiker and from Thwackey as an offensive grass type. This is just not as good as it used to be.

:Wailord: :Farfetch C -> UR - I don't really understand what those two mons accomplish in any serious team. Wailord was ranked for its small niche in webs because it outsped Silvally unlike Octillery but it just has a damn poor movepool and isn't that strong. Farfetch'd also seems suboptimal for any team that wants a Swords Dance setup sweeper or a Defogger.

Other drops i'm echoing that I also don't have anything to add about
:Togetic: - A+ -> A
:Natu: - B+ -> C
:Silvally: Grass - A+ -> A-
 
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OranBerryBlissey10

is a Tiering Contributor
NUPL Champion
Okay so a lot people made noms that I was planning to make, so I won't go into detail about points they already made.

:Wartortle: B+ to A- Mareanie and Pyukumuku leaving the tier benefits it greatly. While it doesn't appreciate Persian and Pincurchin, it's nevertheless a scary Shell Smash sweeper.

:Silvally-Psychic: A to S PsychicVally has perfect coverage and can easily sweep if left alone for too long (this usally means only one or two turns)

:Frillish: UR to B- A Wartortle and Raboot counter at the same time. Access to multiple recovery options and can be a good wall against unprepared teams.

:Raboot: B- to A Just read the 4 preceding posts

:Thwackey: C to B+ Opens the door to Grassy Terrain teams using not just buffed Grass moves but also stuff like Unburden mons and I'm sure those teams will get a lot of innovation.

:Morgrem: B to B+ Double screens with Prankster is a great niche, not to mention other support moves like T-wave. Can even run a Nasty Plot set if you feel like shaking things up.

:Persian: New to A Great for stopping setup mons like Thievul or Silvally, and very high speed combined with Knock Off and U-Turn are boons

:Pincurchin: New to A+ I really like this thing. It's a great hazardsetter, offensive sets are viable (possibly under TR because of its low speed) and I've been having success with a setup set. Pincurchin can run a myriad of sets and they're all good. Electric Surge is great for all the usual terrain shenanigans while Lightningrod is great for other Pincs or for Electric-weak teams.

:Maractus: B+ to B- I like Maractus, but it's definitely outclassed as a grass type and as a hazardsetter, as czim mentioned.

:Silvally-Grass: A+ to A Grassvally is outclassed by other Vallies, and is less appealing now that the broken cucumber is gone.

:Wailord: C to B- Okay, I have to defend Wailord (from the clutches of czim). It was a C rank before the shift and it got better. With Mare and Pyuk gone, teams usally have less water resists and/or less good water resists like Gour, Ivy and Maractus, who can still be hit by Ice Beam. Scarf Clear Smog could also come in handy against opposing Wartortle. Overall, not an amazing, but a decent scarfer that deserves a spot on the VR.
 

5gen

jumper
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
Hello all, the VR changes are out:
Code:
Persian ranked at A
Pincurchin ranked at A+

Cufant B to A-
Dartrix B- to B+
Delibird UR to C
Dottler UR to C
Frillish UR to B-
Hakamo-o B- to B
Ivysaur B to B+
Mudbray C to B-
Morgrem B to B+
Raboot B- to A
Scraggy B- to B
Seaking C to B-
Silvally-Ice B+ to A-
Silvally-Rock A- to A
Silvally-Psychic A to A+
Skorupi UR to C
Sudowoodo C to B
Swirlix UR to C
Thievul A- to A
Thwackey C to B+
Trubbish UR to C
Wartortle B+ to A+
Whicash B+ to A-

Drakloak B+ to B
Farfetch'd-G C to UR
Linoone-G A to A-
Natu B+ to B-
Octillery B+ to B-
Pupitar B- to C
Silvally-Grass A+ to A
Solrock B to B-
Wailord C to UR
The most recent shifts caused drastic changes in the metagame and then Libero Raboot and Grassy Surge Thwackey were released, which also also a huge impact. Refer to posts in this thread for in-depth reasoning. Voting sheet
 
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5gen

jumper
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
Unlocking this thread now that the quick ban slate is over and Ludicolo is banned. Keep in mind that because of the massive tier changes ZU went through with the tier shifts, the viability rankings will undergo an overhaul. Please do not post one-liners or make posts that do not contribute to healthy discussion, I will delete them. There should be a lot to talk about so the whole VR is basically a discussion point for this next slate.
 

Celever

i am town
is a Community Contributor
Hey! I wanna post some initial thoughts.

:dusclops: A+ - Dusclops has made stall viable again and is even finding itself on balance teams thanks to a respectable attack stat and Poltergeist. It's influenced the tier greatly, but more importantly is the strain it puts on teambuilding. Without specific answers to Dusclops (Knock Off, Taunt), teams lose to it. I think this centralisation during the teambuilding process should be reflected in the VR with an A+ ranking alongside other Pokémon you need specific answers for like Wartortle and Machoke.

:krokorok: A- - Krokorok has quickly established itself as the premier Stealth Rock setter for offence, with Taunt to win many lead matchups and Intimidate and Knock Off for utility. It still has competition from Pokémon like Cufant, Lunatone, and Solrock, but its role compression and invaluable-for-this-meta Dark-Type pushes it to A- over B+ in my opinion.

:charjabug: B+ -> A- - Charjabug in itself isn't a hugely centralising threat, but its placement in the VR should reflect the playstyle it represents, which I think is A- right now. Sticky Web has received buffs in the form of good new abusers, and Farfetch'd and Gothitelle are great for punishing Defog, forcing Mime-Galar and Wartortle to come in and spin, leading to them getting worn down. Overall, webs teams are more common and viable than ever and Charjabug being buffed to A- would reflect this.

:mr. mime-galar: A+ - The best Rapid Spin user, with versatility to choose its checks and counters with a wide movepool and versatility to go all-out offensive with scarf or specs. Mime-Galar is simply a top tier threat and deserving of A+.

:lunatone: A- -> A - Lunatone was already a top tier threat, but it received a big buff with the DLC in the form of Meteor Beam. Its Meteor Beam Power Herb sets have made it even more versatile and valuable on even HO, meaning it's a good choice on any playstyle except for stall, and necessitating a good Rock-Type resist on every team with good special bulk, which are fairly uncommon here. I think A is a better reflection of its viability and splashability than A-.

:farfetch A - I actually think Farfetch'd is an A rank right now. Defiant is amazing here, punishing Defog and Intimidate from the likes of Krokorok. First Impression is one of our best priority options, especially because Bug-Type attacks are really rare but valuable here since we have many viable Dark- and Psychic-Type Pokémon. And beyond that, Flying- and Fighting-Type moves cover each other nicely and Knock Off / U-Turn are good utility options. If a team struggles against offence, Farfetch'd is one of the best Pokémon to throw on to ease the matchup up alongside Persian, so I think they should be ranked together.

:meltan: Unranked - lol

:eiscue: A+ -> A- - Eiscue has fallen off greatly recently. Its hail stall set is much less viable now because we now have many more special attackers and Taunt is more common due to Dusclops, not to mention Dusclops itself is a direct counter that's common. And Eiscue's Belly Drum set struggles with our influx of good new priority users and the aforementioned power creep of special attackers. This thing's still good, but it's no longer the top tier centralising threat it was, and I think A- is right for it.

:corsola: B+ - Corsola is a good defensive Stealth Rock user with Regenerator for passive healing and a fairly wide range of utility moves. The commonality of Grass-Type attacks puts pressure on it, however, and it struggles with its special bulk. I think it's similar in viability to Hippopotas (if not a little better, but I could see Hippo falling to B rank) and B+ feels right as a great rocks setter on certain teams but nothing more.

:dartrix: B+ -> B - Dartrix still offers valuable role compression with Defog and Knock Off, but now that we have better hazard control and better Knock Off users, I think Dartrix fares quite a bit worse and there's now less reason to use it. It's definitely still viable as a form of role compression and can work well, but its increased competition makes it drop a rank IMO.

:gothitelle: A - I think Gothitelle should be ranked in A alongside Farfetch'd. Both of these fill a similar role on webs teams (punishing Defog) but Farfetch'd is better vs offence while Gothitelle is better vs balance. Gothitelle has a lot of worth outside of Webs teams, however. It eases the matchup against opposing webs teams since the speed drop also triggers Competitive, and it still has its specs / scarf / ResTalk Stored Power sets to allow it to fit on a wide variety of teams. Definitely a good option on many different playstyles and something people need to prepare for in the teambuilding process, so A-rank feels pretty spot on.

:pupitar: C -> Unranked - I no longer think that Pupitar has a niche in this metagame. It's a liability in the vast majority of matchups, and is simply outpaced by other Stealth Rock setters. In particular, losing the 1-on-1 with Krokorok every time pushes it into obscurity, since Krokorok also beats Natu and Hatenna (one of the main reasons to use Pupitar previously) making it a better option than Pupitar on pretty much every team. Sad to see it go since I was a fan of this thing before, but I don't think it has any merit left.

:trubbish: C -> B- - One of a harem of fairly mediocre spikes setters, I think Trubbish has earned its place in B- thanks to also having access to Toxic Spikes. It's our best Toxic Spikes setter, which is still valuable in this metagame despite none of the setters being great outside of setting T-Spikes. That alone pushes it into B- (and maybe Koffing should get into C-rank as an alternative?) IMO.

:gloom: A- -> B+ - Gloom's still good, but Gourgeist is tough competition that knocks it down a tier imo. Toxic Spikes are now less common than before, meaning its niche of absorbing them is less valuable, and Knock Off is becoming so crucial to answer stall and fat balance that Ivysaur is oftentimes more valuable just thanks to having access to it.

:vullaby: B- -> B - Offers the same role compression as Dartrix with Knock Off and Defog, but with the addition of Taunt. And it walls Gourgeist. That's the main reason it's B-rank now imo. Walling Gourgeist is important.
-------------------------------

This is all for now. Mostly talking on the newcomers with a couple of modifications to old Pokémon. Last talking point: I've seen some Kubfu knocking about but haven't tried it myself. Does this deserve a rank? It's not included in the "New Pokémon" (while Meltan is).
 
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JonAmon 25

Letting the days go by, water flowing underground
is a Pre-Contributor
So I really don’t really have many opinions that I feel are unique enough to warrant posting about, but I wanted to share 3 that I thought not many people would write about.

RISES:
:shedinja: C -> B- or B - Shedinja has greatly benefited from the addition of Poltergeist and Mr. Mime-Galar dropping. It completely walls and spinblocks Gmime and offensive Wartortle and forces them to switch, allowing the preservation of hazards and Shedinja to get a free Poltergeist or X-Scissor off. It also has amazing matchups against various sweepers such the aforementioned Gmime and Wartortle, Eiscue, Klang, regular Mr. Mime without Mystical Fire, and Whiscash.

DROPS:
:morgrem: B+ -> B - Morgrem lost some viability due to Screen Cleaner Mr. Mime-Galar. Its screens are a lot less useful when a Pokemon can just switch in and remove them. While its Nasty Plot set is still good, the effective loss of screens hurts its viability.

:Hakamo-o: B -> C It’s actually kinda incredible how much worse Hakamo-o got due to these shifts. While it lost one of its best walls in Togetic, the arrival of Shiinotic, Pyukumuku, Mr. Mime Regular and Galar, Dusclops, Gothitelle, and the increased viability of Silvally-Ice and Shedinja definitely hurt its viability by a lot. There’s no real reason to use it over Machoke, Mienfoo, or Drakloak, as all 3 have better matchups and more versatility than Hakamo-o in almost every way.
 
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Cheezy

up on melancholy hill
is a Top Tiering Contributor
I'm super late to rank some Pokemon I wanted to Rise/Drop and because I don't want to echo any of the things said above by Celever (great post btw), I will only rank two of the new Pokemon.

:Gourgeist: A+ (Previously) to S
This Pokemon definitely deserves S. It used to be A+ due to it's defensive set walling many Pokemon in the metagame, and now that it has Poltergeist, it can use offensive sets very easily. It has very little checks, being Silvally-Ice, Vullaby, Torracat, and Mr Mime-G (which can be killed by S-Sneak). If someone doesn't have a Gourgeist check or counter, then they will most likely have their full team or at least 3 members of their team killed due to the sheer power Gourg has now.

:Palpitoad: to B-
Palpitoad is in a bad meta for it. Strong Grass types run the meta right now and it doesn't resist much, though having only one weakness, a water immunity, and Stealth Rocks is good enough a niche to be at least B-.
 
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This is going to be a very long post but unfortunately brain full many thoughts. I hope you enjoy getting to see me going from using 10% of my brainpower to 10.1% instead as I babble. I do think something of this size is somewhat warranted though, as the meta has changed drastically from the last update.

The additions, presences and departures (sorry for sounding like a funeral director) of Pincurchin, Raboot, Seaking, Silvally-Rock, Silvally-Psychic, Thievul, Thwackey, Sivally-Grass, Gourgeist, Kadabra, Tangela, Togetic, Whirlipede were all influential on the meta, some completely dominating while others just were good options. On top of that, the release of DLC moves like Poltergeist, Grassy Glide, Rising Voltage, Meteor Beam, Flip Turn, Scorching Sands, Triple Axel, and Dual Wingbeat have the potential to still alter the meta as it goes on, and some already have.

Basically, ZU has been through a whirlwind of change in the past 6 weeks, and it's probably only going to get more crazy with the next tier shift. There's going to be a lot more drops than rises, which is to be somewhat expected when the power level of the tier goes up like it has, and there's a bunch of new options to compete with.

:linoone-galar: A- -> A
Linoone-G is kinda funky. It definitely does not appreciate the new presence of First Impression Farfetch'd, but its speed tier and typing have become much more vital in a meta ruled by strong Psychics and Ghosts. It has a pretty interesting speed war with Mime-G, even at +1. It's immune to the Shadow Sneaks and Poltergeists that have taken the meta by storm, it still provides great Knock Off and Parting Shot support, and it doesn't have to worry about Rocky Helmets or Weakness Policies or Effect Spore while pivoting. While there are some speedy and strong new mons that pressure Linoone-G a bit, I think they serve to accentuate how good its speed is and give more reason to use it as a gluemon than Persian.

:glalie: B -> B+
With the addition of two amazing Ghost types into the tier and Shedinja emerging as more than just a niche pick now, spikestack is actually a pretty good pick for the current meta. Multiple grass types running around as well means that Glalie has a good shot at doing some damage as well. In the lead matchup, it's also quite good now, dominating other hazard setters such as Krokorok and Lunatone. Glalie has a surprising amount of options between its ability to spec either physical or special, Taunt, Explosion, Freeze-Dry, Super Fang, Switcheroo, Iron Head, and Icy Wind, all of which make it less predictable and offer a great amount of utility. Its ability Inner Focus is even helpful for getting Spikes up against the common Persian lead. For all of these reasons, I believe Glalie deserves to be ranked somewhat higher to represent its stronger presence in the current meta.

:rufflet: B- -> B
If Vullaby rises due to its ability to check Gourgeist, I think Rufflet should as well. Its Scarf and Bulk Up sets both do great against Gourg, and it even has a pretty good matchup against Pyuklops on the BU set if it runs Substitute. I think a rise might be in order for the little birdie.

:torracat: B- -> B
Torracat is eating well with the new additions to the tier. Its stallbreaker set and rare Fire typing are excellent at giving Pyuklops cores grief, while also checking Shiinotic and the powerful Gourgeist-Large. This isn't to ignore the surge of priority in the meta, and Torracat's resistant to both Bullet Punch and First Impression. Along with all these beneficial drops, its rival Fire type attacker Raboot has said farewell to the tier. Thanks to all these meta changes, I believe Torracat's position should move up in viability.

:machoke: A+ -> A
Don't take this the wrong way: Machoke is still amazing for Bulky Offense and Balance in the ZU meta. However, with the addition of numerous mons that can dish out a lot of super effective damage to it or take advantage of it (Farfetch'd, Gothitelle, Mr. Mime, Mr. Mime-Galar, Shiinotic), it's lost its position as meta-defining. Machoke is still great at giving defensive Eviolite users grief, threatening staples such as Persian and Linoone-Galar, and putting the pressure on Stall teams, but it does not enjoy this recent surge in powerful special attackers that coincidentally can dish out lots of damage against it.

:wartortle: A+ -> A
Wartortle coincidentally suffers Machoke's same fate of losing its luster in the face of drops, but less due to threatening (though that is part of it) and more due to role competition. Mr. Mime-Galar being in the tier now means that Wartortle's only competition as a Spinner isn't Delibird anymore (foreshadowing noises). On top of that, Mr. Mime-Galar is also a setup sweeper that isn't completely walled by Water types and has a significantly better Special Attack stat. Wartortle is still good, but it isn't at the very top anymore, and dropping it at least one subrank should reflect that.

:lunatone: A- -> B+
Lunatone may have lost a lot of its checks and counters over the past month (Thwackey, Thievul, Silvally-Grass), but it has unfortunately gained both new checks as well as competitors for its role. Gourgeist-Large is quite dominant right now, Shiinotic has the bulk to take hits and recover it off, and even Farfetch'd threatens it with First Impression (which ties into Lunatone's weakness to the surge in priority like Machoke's Bullet Punch, Beartic's Aqua Jet and various mons' Shadow Sneak). Its Scarf set is less useful thanks to the presence of Mr. Mime as a stronger and faster Psychic type Scarfer that offers greater utility options. Lunatone's rocks set suffers from the introduction of Krokorok, which dominates it with Dark STAB and Crunch. While Meteor Beam and Power Herb is a fine choice on HO, there are other special setup sweepers that can offer better STAB options, and Lunatone is just too frail, slow, and has a poor typing for overcoming the various priority running around at the moment to hit the Mimes. Overall, I don't think Lunatone really is worthy of being in the A ranks anymore, as its sets have lost their splashability and its type is more of a liability in the current meta.

:whiscash: A- -> B+
Another victim of the grassy surge that continues on even without Thwackey's presence, Whiscash is just not enjoying the current state of affairs in ZU. Its offensive stats are still pretty paltry, making Specs have to predict extremely well or giving Dragon Dance a harder time finding a sweep. It definitely does not help that even at +1 it has to either run Jolly or risk a speed tie with a Mr. Mime-G that can OHKO it with a Freeze-Dry. Pyukumuku, Shiinotic, Dusclops, and Shedinja all stop its sweeps cold, are pretty popular at the moment, and have a nasty habit of staying alive to the end of the game. Whiscash just does not cut it anymore, and A- was still pretty generous for it in a meta that had Pincurchin.

:silvally-ice: A- -> B+
Silvally-Ice is a peculiar case for me. On one hand, it is still a Silvally that can SD up and break things apart with a 120 BP STAB Multi-Attack with no drawbacks. On the other hand, Silvally-Ice's viability rank comes from a time where there were not one, not two, but three other Silvally in the tier. The unpredictability factor it once had has been diminished a bit. Along with that, the 95 base speed benchmark it once had is no longer the shining jewel of ZU now that fast offensive threats have made their mark on the meta, and priority is everywhere. Icevally does not appreciate hazards in the slightest, but running the amazing new Mime-G as removal for it stacks a lot of weaknesses. Ice is currently a pretty good offensive typing in a meta with lots of Grass in it, but is such a liability defensively, and Silvally-Ice often takes more chip from hazards and priority than it would like. If setup wasn't difficult enough, Dusclops and Pyukumuku have returned to make stall nasty again, which means that Icevally's SD set is less good at breaking than it once was. Icevally just isn't having a good moment right now, and dropping a rank is fitting for that.

:ivysaur: B+ -> B
While Ivysaur can offer some good utility against Stall between its typing and access to Knock Off, it struggles a lot with some of the new faces in the meta. The Mimes, Farfetch'd, and Gothitelle all make its life difficult and the trend towards more powerful special attackers, particularly Ice and Psychic, means that its typing doesn't look as good anymore. Shiinotic competes with Ivysaur's role as a defensive Grass type, and even carries the extremely reliable Spore to shut down foes more consistently than Sleep Powder. Gloom has not been doing as hot either, and I believe that if it drops, Ivysaur should also go down a notch.

:maractus: B+ -> B
I was never really that hot on Maractus to begin with, but the new meta trends have definitely made its viability placement much more suspect. Farfetch'd's First Impression straight up outprioritizes Sucker Punch, and Maractus also has to deal with the sudden prevalence of faster attackers that all take advantage of its bad bulk and can outplay some of its Sucker Punches. While it was pretty good as a mix of anti-offense and stallbreaking, it really did not like that the Mimes and Shiinotic dropped into the meta. Maractus is still a great stallbreaker that can dismantle Pyuklops to some extent, it struggles to keep up in the current meta with its mediocre offensive typing and the speed and priority creep ZU is facing.

:beartic: B -> B-
Rain was already a very shaky archetype in ZU, but reliance on Vulpix-A or Snover as pure setters as Eiscue's Hail set declines is just not great for Beartic. It's still literally the most physically powerful mon in ZU before taking into account that it can run CB or SD, but it doesn't have as easy of a time terrorizing a faster meta that isn't just Eviolite walls anymore. Pyukumuku and Dusclops ruin its stall matchup if it doesn't run Taunt, while the priority that has become prominent in the meta to hit Mime-G has made its life worse. Beartic just isn't the giant it once was.

:duosion: B -> B-
I think Duosion is in a weird place right now. Its offensive Trick Room set competes somewhat with the popularity of Oranguru, it hates the additions of Krokorok and Poltergeist, and there's new Psychic types that can function as wincons (Gothitelle, Mr. Mime, Mr. Mime-Galar) that give it competition. Even more frustrating for it is that Dusclops is another bulky defensive booster that can end games. While its sweeper set it still fine and is excellent at being a wincon on semi-stall and against Pyukumuku, Duosion just doesn't really fit the current meta. Kind of sad, as I love the little blob :(

:gastly: B -> B-
While you might think that Gastly's Scarf set would thrive in a meta of high speed Psychic types to revenge kill, things are never that simple. Shadow Sneaking ghosts like Gourg-L and Shedinja give Gastly grief, and it can't come in to spinblock Mr. Mime-G for fear of getting hit with a Psychic. Gastly just does not distinguish itself in a meta that is swimming in priority, Knock Off users, and better spinblocking Ghosts.

:onix: B -> B-
Want a fast rocker that can run Taunt? Krokorok is the pick for you! Onix does have Body Press and Head Smash still to guarantee rocks as a lead, but it has now lost its big title of "fastest rocker who comes prepackaged with Taunt".

:scraggy: B -> B-
Scraggy being not just viable but good has been very fun, and it was great for having the bulk to pull off multiple distinct setup sets that could capitalize on the lower speed of the meta and a shortage of viable strong Fighting, Flying, and Fairy types to break through it. Unfortunately, those days are now gone, as Shiinotic, Mr. Mime, and Farfetch'd have come to ruin its day. The return of Pyukumuku hasn't made its setup life any easier as well. Togetic may be gone, but more threats to Scraggy's success have popped up in its place.

:natu: B- -> C
Being a Magic Bouncer is much more fun when everything wasn't out to get you. Natu's bulk was already flimsy and compromised both its defensive and Wishporting sets, but now it has to deal with the fact that Krokorok is a thing, many popular old hazard setters (Glalie, Maractus, Lunatone, Solrock) still beat it, and there's suddenly a lot of things running Knock Off or Poltergeist. Sure it can shut down Pyukumuku, but Natu's stallbreaking ends when Dusclops or any other Ghost comes in.

:cherrim: C -> UR
How the mighty fall, and how the not so mighty fall even harder. Cherrim's only claim to fame since the Drought + Heat Rock transitive ban is its access to Healing Wish, which was the only reason one would run a Scarf Cherrim. With Mr. Mime (and its Galarian counterpart, but don't run Healing Wish on that) entering the tier and bearing its own Scarf set with much greater coverage, better power, and a higher speed tier, there's very little reason to run Cherrim anymore.

:delibird: C -> UR
Delibird was already fringe due to its bad bulk, low power without the inconsistent Hustle, and mediocre speed even by ZU standards. Heavy-Duty Boots were barely enough to save it, but the drop of Mr. Mime-Galar has made its role as a Rapid Spinner that is not Wartortle evaporate. If you want an Ice Type Spiker that can run a lead set, Glalie is a much more consistent option. If you want a fragile but potent Ice type Spinner, go with Mr. Mime-Galar. Delibird's negative qualities just make it too weak of a compromise between two different roles.

:munchlax: C -> UR
While Munchlax was a fine special wall that could phaze and occasionally set up with Curse, it suffers due to the readdition or strengthening of physical ghosts that wall and threaten it, such as Dusclops, Gourgeist-Large, and Shedinja. Munchlax grants free switches to these three in a way that compromises its ability to take special hits and then Rest off the damage. Being a momentum drain in a meta that has gotten faster and more specially powerful has hurt it as well, and I think that these factors make it inappropriate compared to some of the other niche presences in C.

:spritzee: C -> UR
Spritzee was, like, fine I guess in a meta where Wish support was limited to itself and Natu, but Lickitung's release has put it out of business in my opinion. Its overall stats are just too low to really justify it as a passer anymore. It has a fine defensive typing, but Lickitung offers the far more valuable Ghost immunity and Knock Off support. ZU society has progressed beyond the need for Spritzee.

:gourgeist-large: -> A+
Gourg-L is a scary strong wallbreaker in no small part thanks to the sheer power of Power Whip and Poltergeist, but its ability to run multiple sets makes it even more dangerous. Flame Charge, Synthesis, Shadow Sneak, and Rock Slide all give it different checks, which is to say nothing of the fact that it can run Choice Band, Life Orb, Choice Scarf, and even Weakness Policy to tear teams to shreds. It threatens stall cores like nothing else. This isn't to say it can't be played around with clever predictions and teambuilding, but it's still a substantial threat in the new meta.

:mr. mime-galar: -> A+
Mime-G has made itself a tier staple in next to no time at all. Rapid Spin is a godsend in ZU after having to rely on Wartortle. Mime-G offers an amazing speed benchmark at 100 and makes it near mandatory to run some form of speed control as priority or spinblocking on offensive and defensive teams alike. Nasty Plot gives it further ways to set up, and its coverage and options are quite decent in Ice Beam, Freeze-Dry, Focus Blast, Shadow Ball, and Dazzling Gleam. Bonus in Toxic, Trick, Taunt, Healing Wish, and Encore only makes it that much more splashable. While it definitely has its flaws in its defensive typing, 4MSS, and fragility, there's so much that Mime-G brings to the table that not bringing it makes some teams worse off.

:dusclops: -> A
There is a specter haunting ZU, and that specter's name is Dusclops. Clops is blessed with substantial bulk that doesn't just evaporate if it gets its Eviolite knocked off, and it comes with a great number of options for shutting down physical or special wallbreakers that think they're all that between Poltergeist, Shadow Ball, Night Shade, Toxic, and Will-o-Wisp. Dusclops even has the ability to run a bulky boosting set with Calm Mind that can end games just based on Pressure stalling or being unbreakable. However, Dusclops does come with some flaws, being a momentum sink with its unreliable Restalk or Pain Split recovery options. It's quite potent right now and partners very well with Pyuk, but it doesn't define the entire meta.

:mr.mime: -> A-
Mr. Mime is a fantastic and flexible mon that can run a variety of sets between Specs, Scarf, NP, or AoA, and it has a wonderful slew of coverage (now featuring Mystical Fire!) and utility options just like its galarian cousin. However, that same familial relation is what holds Mr. Mime back from being as splashable as it could be: if you're running Mime-G as a spinner, you can't run Mr. Mime. On top of that, many mons run strong physical priority to hit Mime-G, and these same mons put a ton of pressure on Mr. Mime's lacking physical bulk. However, Mime's great offensive typing, high special attack, and sheer customizability are what should land it in the A ranks.

:farfetch -> B+
For all the hype that Fetch'd got when it dropped, I have been pretty underwhelmed by it. It's a fine wallbreaker and/or setup sweeper that offers a wonderful priority option and has great coverage, but it's awfully frail and wears itself down so easily for what it wants to do. Brave Bird eats up so much of the duck's tiny HP stat, rocks chunk it for 1/4 every time it comes in to revenge kill if it forgot its boots, and it doesn't often get the opportunity to SD in front of anything that can tear through its paper thin bulk. Add onto that a very lackluster speed stat, even in ZU, and Fetch'd can be a rather fussy mon to run. It's a great anti-offense and especially anti-Gourgeist tool, but it's still a high-maintenance pick.

:pyukumuku: -> B+
Pyukumuku was already very potent before making a brief stint in PU. Its unaware set is very difficult to break through, and though it offers next to no offensive pressure, it can run a surprising amount of support options between Toxic, Mirror Coat, Counter, Soak, and Screens. However, it is still shut down by the most basic stallbreaking measures, has SEVERE 4MSS, and cannot stand that Gourg-L + grassy friends, Duosion, and Natu do not care about any of its antics. Stall is potent once more, and Pyuk is definitely mandatory on it with Unaware, but it is not as unbreakable or unexploitable as it might have been a meta or two ago.

:gothitelle: -> B
Goth girl queen has had a wild ride in between being overshadowed by Meowstic-F in Alpha, to being a premiere Scarfer, to taking a trip into PU, and now coming back down. Its bulk is quite nice, and it's a great antimeta pick to deal with Webs at the moment. However (there's always a however, isn't there?) it faces competition for punishing Defog with Farfetch'd's Defiant, the coverage it scrapes together isn't always the greatest, and its typing of pure Psychic leaves it prone to everything including Shadow Sneak, First Impression, Knock Off, Poltergeist, and U-Turn. Its sets are also prone to various deficiencies and limit some of its splashability. Specs and Weakness Policy are lacking in speed, Scarf is very exploitable and lacks power without a Competitive boost, and that evil Cosmic Power + Stored Power set just collects dust if there's a Dark type on the opposing team. Most of Gothitelle's other options, such as NP, CM, or Cosmic Power are usually done better by other Psychic types such as Oranguru, the Mimes, Duosion, Lunatone, Morgrem... and the list goes on. Antimeta for sure, but meta defining... no <3

:shiinotic: -> B
Shiinotic has a pretty nice defensive typing, access to semi-reliable recovery in Strength Sap, and extremely reliable sleep in the holy Spore. Effect Spore is a neat ability to punish physical attackers who might try to take advantage of it with a contact move, and dual STAB coverage in E-Ball/Giga Drain and Moonblast is really nice. Unfortunate then that Shiinotic competes with both Ivysaur and Gloom, who have been doing its job just fine in ZU and are immune to Toxic (the former of which can even run Knock Off). However, Shiinotic does have its own benefits in being able to run Leftovers while not being weak to Psychic, making it an option to keep in mind. Doesn't exactly love that Farfetch'd, Mime, Mime-G, Eiscue, Klang, Cufant, Gloom, Icevally, Dartrix, and Ivysaur are all great to good meta picks that can take advantage of it one way or another.

:corsola: -> B-
Though it's not its Galarian counterpart, Corsola is still a pretty decent wall with the enviable Regenerator ability and rocks. It definitely does not enjoy the prevalence of grasses, special attackers, and multiple mons that run coverage against it in this meta though. It's pretty good at not dying, but it would thrive more in a meta that was not super averse to its already weak type combo.

:palpitoad: -> C
Speaking of a type combo that the meta is not very charitable towards... Palpitoad! Palp, its friends, and its evolution all work best when there's extremely powerful water or electric types to check in the meta. This is not one of those metas. Gourgeist, Mime-G, Shiinotic, Cufant, Gloom, Ivysaur, Maractus, and Glalie all give it a hard time. When your MO is just to set rocks, block volt switches, and sit there trying to slurp up water attacks, you're not going to do well in a meta ruled by grasses, grass coverage, and Freeze-Dry. Go figure.

:meltan: -> UR
What's been said has been said. You can TRY to run a trapper set with Iron Defense and Restalk and hope your opponent gets bored enough to forfeit, but it can't run Eviolite and has next to no bulk to pull something like that off viably. Its movepool is shallow to the point of being a kiddie pool, so you're better off running either Klang. Rest in peace little guy.
 
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