[STABmons] Gyarados [QC: 2/3] [Written Up]

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
QC 2/3: unfixable / Eevee General / -
GP 0/2: - / -

[OVERVIEW]
Gyarados is an extremely potent threat both offensively and defensively in STABmons. Its typing allows it to resist common offensive moves like Gear Grind, Close Combat, and V-Create, and also gives it access to Roost, which greatly helps its walling and sweeping capabilities. This allows it to check common attackers like Scizor-Mega and Heatran. Access to Intimidate further increases its ability to check physically offensive threats, and give you more opportunities to set up.

Access to Dragon Dance also allows Gyarados to be an extremely powerful offensive threat. Additionally, its Water / Flying typing gives it access to powerful STAB moves like Crabhammer and Dragon Ascent. Its naturally high bulk and access to roost makes it extremely difficult to revenge kill. Gyarados also has access to a Mega Evolution, which exchanges its Flying typing for Dark. This gives it powerful STAB in Crunch, and also allows it to set up on pokemon like Slowbro. Its Mega Evolution also gives Gyarados Mold Breaker, which allows it to boost through Quagsire and Clefable and hit Rotom-W with Earthquake.

However, Gyarados still has several exploitable weaknesses. Most notably is its quadruple weakness to Electric, which is a common attacking type in STABmons. Its mega evolution also gives it a weakness to U-turn and Close Combat. Additionally, its coverage options are not strong enough to get past walls like Ferrothorn and Skarmory. A weakness to Stealth Rock also reduces its longevity and forces it to Roost often to keep HP up. It can also be checked by priority status users like Thundurus-I and Sableye if it does not have a substitute up. However, despite these flaws, Gyarados is still a solid defensive Pokemon that also has threatening offensive options, making it a threat that must be considered when teambuilding.

[SET]
name: Mono Attacking Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Crabhammer
move 3: Substitute / Taunt
move 4: Roost
item: Gyaradosite
ability: Intimidate
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 104 Atk / 68 Def / 84 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
Dragon Dance is necessary to boost Gyarados' attacking stats to allow it to sweep. Crabhammer is the preferred STAB move as it has high base power. Waterfall can also be used because it has 100 accuracy and a flinch chance. Crunch can also be used as an attacking move, but Water STAB gets better coverage. Substitute is useful to stop status and prevents Gyarados from being revenge killed by Fake Out + Extreme Speed. Taunt can also be used to stop status and phazing, but Substitute is usually more useful as it prevents revenge killing. Finally, Roost is necessary to keep Gyarados health up so it can ignore weaker hits in the early game and boost through the opposing team in the late game.

Set Details
========
The given EVs try to maximize Gyarados' bulk and attack power. 84 Spe EVs outspeeds positive natured 100s after one boost. If running Crunch, 144 Spe EVs can be used to outspeed positive natured Latios and Gengar. 252 HP and 68 Def allows your substitute, after mega evolving, to remain intact against Fake Out from Life Orb Braviary, which is the strongest Fake Out you would reasonably encounter. The rest of the points are used to maximize attack. Gyarados can also easily run a fully physically defensive spread to make it even harder to revenge kill, but this weakens its sweeping capabilities. Intimidate is the preferred ability before mega evolution because it gives Gyarados more opportunities to set up. After mega evolving, Gyarados gains Mold Breaker, which gives it the ability to break through Unaware, Sturdy, Water Absorb, and Storm Drain.

Usage Tips
========
This set should definitely be used as a late game cleaner against offensive teams. As such, do not allow it to take too much harassment in the early game. As non-mega Gyarados has an arguably better defensive typing and access to Intimidate, it is better to keep Gyarados in regular form until you are ready to sweep. The immunity to Ground also makes it much easier to set up on pokemon like Garchomp, Landorus-T. When you are in mega forme, you can easily set up on Slowbro / Slowking because of your typing. When you are ready to sweep, try to keep a substitute up if possible so you can't get statused by Sableye or Thundurus-I, which can stop your sweep. The substitute will also prevent you from being revenge killed by Fake Out + Extremespeed. Gyarados-Mega can also be used as a powerful stallbreaker as its high bulk and access to Roost makes it difficult for stall teams to take down.

Team Options
========
Gyarados-Mega needs help clearing bulky water and bulky grass types before it can sweep. Thundurus is excellent for this job because it can easily plow through those pokemon with its STABs. Rotom-H and Raikou are good teammates because they can check the electric types that threaten Gyarados, and can also use Volt Switch to gain momentum. Because Gyarados is weak to Stealth Rock, some form of hazard control is usually needed on your team. Excadrill is a good option to keep rocks off the field with rapid spin, and can also provide offensive pressure. Alternatively, Landorus-T and Zapdos are good defog users that can also use U-turn and Volt Switch to gain momentum. Gyarados may also need a cleric if it gets statused before it has the opportunity to get a sub up. Clefable and Porygon-2 are good defensive options, while Latios / Latias can provide support in the form of Lunar Dance while also providing Defog support.

[SET]
name: Offensive Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Crabhammer
move 3: Crunch / Earthquake
move 4: Roost / Substitute / Taunt
item: Gyaradosite
ability: Intimidate
nature: Adamant
evs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 144 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
Dragon Dance boosts Gyarados' attack and speed to threatening levels. Crabhammer is preferred as your main STAB move as it hits hard and has decent coverage in the meta. The second attacking move helps Gyarados get through some of its counters. Crunch is a solid STAB move that allows Gyarados to deal a large amount of damage to bulky Grass and Water types like defensive Gyarados, Venusaur and Ferrothorn and allows you to OHKO Latios / Latias. Earthquake allows it to OHKO Rotom-W while still dealing decent damage to other defensive threats. The last move gives Gyarados some utility. Roost allows Gyarados to keep its health up throughout the game and allows it to check a few threats. Substitute helps you be more resistant to revenge killing, while Taunt prevents status.

Set Details
========
This set aims to maximize Gyarados' attack while taking advantage of its natural bulk to set up. 252 Atk EVs and an Adamant nature allows Gyarados to deal as much damage as possible. 144 Spe EVs outspeeds positive natured 110s like Latios / Latias and Gengar after one boost. The rest of the EVs are put into HP to maximize bulk. Intimidate is the preferred ability as it makes it easier to switch into physical attackers and set up on them. Moxie can be used to allow Gyarados to steamroll through weakened teams, but it does not have as many setup opportunities as Intimidate does. Gyaradosite allows Gyarados to mega evolve, gaining Mold Breaker. This allows it to break through Unaware and Sturdy, as well as hitting Levitate pokemon with Earthquake.

Usage Tips
========
This set is an extremely potent cleaner against weakened teams. However, running two attacks means it can only afford one moveslot for a utility move, meaning you need to take more care when using offensive Gyarados to sweep. Try to make sure that all of Gyarados' checks and counters are weakened to the point where they can be KO'd at +1 attack, and do not attempt to set up if the opponent has a fast status user that can shut down Gyarados. If you are running Roost as your utility move, you can afford to use Gyarados as a check to certain threats (preferably in non-Mega form when you still have Intimidate) and you can switch Gyarados in directly. Otherwise, make sure Gyarados does not take any unnecessary damage.

Team Options
========
Mega Gyarados has high power and decent coverage, but it prefers to have the opposing team weakened before it sweeps. Offensive Gyarados appreciates very similar support to mono-attacking Gyarados. Thundurus-I is a great teammate that can easily deal with many of the pokemon that give Gyarados trouble, like Venusaur-Mega, Skarmory, and defensive Gyarados. Raikou can easily counter the fast Electric types that try to revenge kill Gyarados. Landorus-T and Zapdos are good options for hazard removal, and they can both grant you momentum with U-turn / Volt Switch. Offensive Gyarados also highly appreciates cleric support from its team as it has less options to protect itself than mono-attacking Gyarados. Latios is a great offensive option that provides Defog support as well as cleric support in the form of Lunar Dance. Porygon-2 can work as a slightly more defensive option.

[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Roost
move 2: Crabhammer
move 3: Thunder Wave
move 4: Roar / Dragon Tail / Brave Bird
item: Leftovers
ability: Intimidate
nature: Impish
evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
Roost is the most necessary move on this set as it restores Gyarados' HP, which allows it to continually check opposing threats. Crabhammer is a powerful STAB move that allows it to hit pokemon it checks like Heatran. Thunder Wave allows Gyarados to cripple opposing sweepers and make it easier for the rest of the team to deal with them. Roar and Dragon Tail both allow Gyarados to phaze sweepers, but both have drawbacks. Roar is stopped by Taunt, while Dragon Tail can be stopped by Substitute and can miss. Brave Bird can also be used if you want a secondary STAB option.

Set Details
========
This set maximizes Gyarados' physical bulk to allow it to continuously check common physical threats like Scizor-Mega and various FakeSpeeders. 8 Spe EVs allows it to outspeed Azumarill. Gyarados can also run a specially defensive spread to check pokemon like Charizard-Mega-Y and Heatran better, but a physically defensive spread is usually preferred as it checks many more threats and takes better advantage of Intimidate. Leftovers keeps Gyarados healthy, though Rocky Helmet can be run to wear down the opponent.

Usage Tips
========
Gyarados' great typing and defensive stats allow it to easily switch into threats like Scizor and Heatran, and threaten them back by hitting them with its strong STAB moves or crippling them with Thunder Wave. Gyarados can use Roar to stop opposing pokemon from setting up and can allow Gyarados to spread status throughout the opposing team. Intimidate makes it easier for Gyarados to check physical threats, but the given EV spread means that Gyarados can be taken down by strong physical threats if it has taken prior damage. As such, it is necessary to use Roost to keep Gyarados' health up from damage taken from attacks and Stealth Rocks.

Team Options
========
Gyarados benefits from Stealth Rock users, as it can use Roar to rack up hazard damage. Ferrothorn is a good hazard setter that has good defensive synergy with Gyarados as it can take the Electric and Rock type moves that Gyarados has trouble with. Heatran is also another good defensive option, as it offers phazing and Stealth Rock support for Gyarados, and Gyarados can handle the Fighting, Ground, and Water type moves that hurt Heatran. Gyarados also greatly appreciates a way to keep hazards off the field. Landorus-T is a great defog user that can check rock types like Tyranitar and Terrakion that give Gyarados trouble. As Gyarados has no way of removing status from itself, it is useful to have a cleric on your team. Chansey can is a good cleric that can tank extremely strong special hits, while Clefable is another option that can check sweepers that get out of hand.
[SET]
name: Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Crabhammer
move 3: Dragon Ascent / Brave Bird
move 4: Roost / Substitute / Taunt
item: Lum Berry / Leftovers
ability: Intimidate
nature: Adamant
evs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 144 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
Dragon Dance boosts Gyarados' speed and attack so that it can sweep. Crabhammer is necessary as high power water STAB, and is preferred over Waterfall because of its high base power. Dragon Ascent and Brave Bird are both powerful secondary STAB moves, but they each have their own drawbacks. Dragon Ascent drops your defensive stats, while Brave Bird makes you take recoil damage. They both make you more susceptible to revenge killing. Roost is preferred in the final slot as it allows Gyarados to check certain threats before sweeping and keeps its HP up. It also allows it to recover from Brave Bird recoil. Substitute can also be used to stop status and make it more difficult to be revenge killed, while Taunt also stops status and prevents phazing by Roar / Whirlwind.

Set Details
========
This set aims to maximize Gyarados' attack while taking advantage of its natural bulk to set up. 252 Atk EVs and an Adamant nature allows Gyarados to deal as much damage as possible. 144 Spe EVs outspeeds positive natured 110s like Latios / Latias and Gengar after one boost. The rest of the EVs are put into HP to maximize bulk. Intimidate is the preferred ability as it makes it easier to switch into physical attackers and set up on them. Moxie can be used to allow Gyarados to steamroll through weakened teams, but it does not have as many setup opportunities as Intimidate does. Lum Berry is used as an item as it allows Gyarados to prevent status once from fast status users like Sableye and Thundurus-T, but Leftovers is also an option to give Gyarados some passive recovery while sweeping. Life Orb can also be used to increase Gyarados' power further, but the recoil damage it incurs makes it much easier to revenge kill.

Usage Tips
========
Gyarados should not be set up until its counters are weakened or fainted. It should be used mainly as a sweeper and a cleaner, not as a wallbreaker. Similarly, avoid setting up Gyarados when the opponent has a lot of opportunities to wear you down with Fake Out. Gyarados' natural bulk, ability, and typing mean you can switch it into support pokemon like Landorus-T and Heatran and easily set up on them. If using Roost, be sure to keep your health up throughout the game so you can have as much HP as possible when you are ready to sweep. If you are using Substitute, do not use it too early in the game or you may end up wasting HP points. If you are using Taunt, use it on passive defensive threats that have little means of threatening you like Skarmory to prevent them from phazing or statusing you.

Team Options
========
Gyarados has a high sweeping potential, but its coverage options are rather limited. Heatran is a great partner because it provides a stealth rock setter and allows you to deal with Ferrothorn and Skarmory. Magnezone can also be used to trap some of Gyarados' counters. Excadrill is a good offensive partner because it can spin away Stealth Rock for Gyarados, and can check many of the pokemon that give Gyarados trouble, like Thundurus (lacking Focus Blast). It also threatens Rotom-Wash and Quagsire, two pokemon that can easily wall Gyarados. Landorus-T and Scizor-Mega are great Defog users that can also pivot to Gyarados with U-Turn.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
A Dragon Dance + 3 attacks set can be run on both Gyarados and Gyarados-Mega for better coverage and more damage, but it gets easily worn down, revenged, or statused by prankster. Also, additional coverage moves like Stone Edge or Ice Fang do not grant Gyarados much more relevant coverage than it already gets. Similarly, Gyarados can run 252 Atk / 252 Spe for maximum offensive offensive presence, but this reduces its ability to switch into resisted moves and makes it more prone to revenge killing. Gyarados can run a RestTalk + Dragon Dance set effectively, which gives it a way to remove status from itself, but it has less room than a Roost + Dragon Dance set for other moves. Gyarados can also run Water Shuriken for priority, but it is only +1 priority so it does not help against ExtremeSpeed. Gyarados is also fast enough after one boost to not really need priority moves. Defensively, Gyarados has access to Defog, but it takes away a moveslot from other useful support moves, and it is somewhat risky to run Defog on a pokemon that is weak to Rock. Scald can also be run to give Gyarados a chance to burn its opponent, but it is weak and highly luck based.
Checks and Counters
===================
**Bulky Water Types**: This is especially true if Gyarados lacks Flying coverage. Pokemon like Blastoise-Mega and Slowbro can easily soak up a Crabhammer and hit back with strong attacks, or try to status with scald. Rotom-Wash can easily wall Gyarados and gain momentum volt-switching out. Quagsire can also easily wall non-mega Gyarados sets.

**Electric Types**: Electric type moves can easily OHKO Gyarados and can prevent offensive variants from setting up. Prankster Thundurus can use Thunder Wave to shut down Gyarados's sweep. Fast pokemon like Thundurus and Raikou can also outspeed lesser invested sets even when Gyarados is at +1

**Physical Walls**: Pokemon like Skarmory and Ferrothorn can take even boosted hits from Gyarados, and can be a huge nuisance if Gyarados lacks Taunt. They can easily phaze out or status Gyarados to stop it from sweeping.

**Fast Status Users**: Prankster status users like Sableye and Thundurus-I can shut down Gyarados' sweep if it doesn't have a sub up. Also, fast pokemon like Darkrai, Gengar, and Sceptile-Mega can sometimes outspeed Gyarados even after a boost and status it to stop its sweep.
 
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skies

formerly wishes
is a Battle Simulator Moderatoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus


Hey, Kit Kasai, here's a QC check for you!

Overview

"High bulk makes it resistant to" sounds like Gyarados resists Extreme Speed, which it does not. Rephrase this to "high natural bulk lets Gyarados take neutral hits such as Extreme Speed with ease" or something to that effect. As long as it's portrayed correctly.
Don't forget to mention that Stealth Rock weakness is irritating when Gyarados is trying to repeatedly switch in, forcing it to use Roost after just Stealth Rock rounds, which is sort of sad! :[
Mention versatility as well, because Gyarados is nothing if not versatile!
Specially Defensive

Roar needs to be slashed before Taunt to phase out set up sweepers faster than Gyarados, which it is unable to Taunt.
I'm not the greatest user of this set, so I'm going to let Eevee General help you out with this one because he's a good user of this set and I don't want to feed you false information! I'll just help with nitpicks here and there.​

Set Comments

Moves: Mention that Crabhammer is able to hit Ground-types, which are immune to Thunder Wave, so it's a good way to dissuade them and more freely use Thunder Wave.

Set Details: I think the 32 Defense EVs needs to be explained more clearly. It sounds weird as it is now. Perhaps something along the lines of "Running 32 Defense EVs allow Gyarados to avoid the 2HKO from Mega Scizor's Gear Grind' would work. Would Gyaradosite be a good mention here? I'd ask Eevee.

Usage Tips: Looks really good! Good job, Kit!

Team Options: I think Gyarados's Team Options span more than just two bullet points! What stallier Pokemon can be run alongside it? Coming from someone who doesn't run defensive teams typically, I'm genuinely curious. This could be your reader (me, in this situation), so you've gotta expand on this and see what you can add.
Dragon Dance

I don't like non-Mega Dragon Dance. It's not a bad set by any means, I just find Mega to be more useful. For that reason, I'd like this set moved after the Mega Dragon Dance set. So, basically, switch places.
They need to be slashes, not a vertical bar. Brave Bird / Dragon Ascent, not Brave Bird | Dragon Ascent.
I'd prefer Dragon Ascent slashed first, as the recoil from Brave Bird is incredibly unappealing to me.
Remove Moxie, that should be in Set Details. Intimidate creates many more set up opportunities, and Moxie is only really good in snowball chains which Gyarados won't always achieve. It has perks, but I think Intimidate is much better.​

Set Comments

Moves: Brave Bird is not more powerful than Dragon Ascent o_o?? +1 Dragon Ascent (or Brave Bird) KOes Kangaskhan regardless. Also, the Defense drops in return for no recoil is useful imo. Hypothetical situation: your opponent brings in a Ferrothorn to take the incoming hit. Iron Barbs does 13%, Leftovers takes back 6%. You're left with a loss of 7%. Brave Bird will cause you to lose, on a low roll, 40% health. Now you're at 53% on a good roll. Fake Out + Extreme Speed KOes from this point forward regardless of Defense drops. If I did that math correctly, then it really doesn't matter which you run. I prefer Dragon Ascent in general, however.

Set Details: 144 Speed EVs outspeeds these Pokemon at +1, clarify that.

Usage Tips: Looks alright. Try and expand it more if you can!

Team Options: Again, just expansion really. Expand us a bit more!
Mega Dragon Dance

As I already stated, I believe this should be the second set in the analysis. Anyways! Everything else is fine.

Set Comments

Moves: Crunch needs a serious highlight. It beats through Rotom-W, Quagsire, Mega Venusaur, and a ton of other things. I'd put Crunch / Roost as your final move, because Crunch is just really useful. Actually, scratch that, I think the set slashes should be, in this order Dragon Dance | Crabhammer | Substitute / Taunt | Roost / Crunch. Mention Earthquake as well, it beats Rotom-W easier than any other move.

Set Details: Mention a Jolly nature and what that outspeeds. It's viable to get the jump on other Pokemon.

Usage Tips: Good.

Team Options: As for the other two sets, please, please, please expand!
Strategy Comments

Other Options: Remove Aqua Jet, Water Shuriken is better. Looks solid otherwise.

Checks & Counters: Be sure you expand a lot on which Pokemon in specific. Thundurus, for example, cripples non-Lum Berry sets easily and can even outspeed lesser invested sets.
Implement this and you've got yourself...


QC 1/3
 

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
Oh I updated this yesterday, forgot to post to say that it was updated

Hey, Kit Kasai, here's a QC check for you!

Overview

"High bulk makes it resistant to" ... ✓
Don't forget to mention that Stealth Rock weakness... ✓
Mention versatility as well... ✓
Specially Defensive

Roar needs to be slashed before Taunt... ✓​

Set Comments

Moves: Mention that Crabhammer is able to hit Ground-types... ✓
Set Details: I think the 32 Defense EVs needs to be explained more clearly... ✓

Team Options: What stallier Pokemon can be run alongside it... ✓ (I think)
Dragon Dance

I don't like non-Mega Dragon Dance. It's not a bad set by any means, I just find Mega to be more useful. For that reason, I'd like this set moved after the Mega Dragon Dance set. So, basically, switch places.
I think this is mostly a matter of personal preference, but i'll wait for another QC check before implementing this.
I'd prefer Dragon Ascent slashed first, as the recoil from Brave Bird is incredibly unappealing to me.
Remove Moxie, that should be in Set Details...✓​

Set Comments

Moves: Brave Bird is not more powerful than Dragon Ascent o_o?? I never said this lol
+1 Dragon Ascent (or Brave Bird) KOes Kangaskhan regardless. Also, the Defense drops in return for no recoil is useful imo. Hypothetical situation: your opponent brings in a Ferrothorn to take the incoming hit. Iron Barbs does 13%, Leftovers takes back 6%. You're left with a loss of 7%. Brave Bird will cause you to lose, on a low roll, 40% health. Now you're at 53% on a good roll. Fake Out + Extreme Speed KOes from this point forward regardless of Defense drops. If I did that math correctly, then it really doesn't matter which you run. I prefer Dragon Ascent in general, however.
This is probably true ✓

Set Details: 144 Speed EVs outspeeds these Pokemon at +1, clarify that. ✓

Usage Tips: Looks alright. Try and expand it more if you can! ✓

Team Options: Again, just expansion really. Expand us a bit more! ✓
Mega Dragon Dance

Set Comments

Moves: Crunch needs a serious highlight... ✓
Though i'm not quite sure about Earthquake, as Rotom-W isn't that common (Rotom-H is usually preferred).

Set Details: Mention a Jolly nature and what that outspeeds. It's viable to get the jump on other Pokemon.
There isn't really anything too relevant that it outspeeds I think? You'd have to invest a lot of speed to outspeed stuff like Jolly Thundurus and Greninja and stuff like that, and that would ruin a lot of your bulk. I'm considering separating Bulky dragon dance and offensive dragon dance (252 atk 252 spe) into two sets, thoughts?

Team Options: As for the other two sets, please, please, please expand! ✓
Strategy Comments

Other Options: Remove Aqua Jet, Water Shuriken is better. Looks solid otherwise. ✓

Checks & Counters: Be sure you expand a lot on which Pokemon in specific. Thundurus, for example, cripples non-Lum Berry sets easily and can even outspeed lesser invested sets. ✓
Implement this and you've got yourself...


QC 1/3
Ready for another QC.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
GO KOIS

Overview
  • Why does it have great defensive and offensive typing? I'm not sold.
  • Give me a good/bad/good sandwich and end the overview on a high note. "While it comes with a few noticeable flaws, Gyarados is still a fantastic support and defensive Pokemon with solid offensive capabilities, making it a big threat to keep in mind when teambuilding."
Set - Specially Defensive
  • I prefer to have two attacks and Roost/Twave. I'd like to see Brave Bird slashed over one of the last moves. Roar / Brave Bird looks good because Taunt is a little harder to pull off with its Speed.
  • I don't know if we're supposed to post Leftovers numbers. SR numbers are okay from what I understand. unfixable ?
  • Moves
    • Mention Roost is needed because of the SR damage it takes when coming in.
  • Set Details
    • Again, I'm not sure about Leftovers numbers.
  • Usage Tips
    • The first bullet is not helpful here. You need to be more direct. "Switch Gyarados into threats X, Y, and Z and then use Move A"
    • "Roar stops certain pokemon from setting up on you and stops Belly Drum sweepers before they can get set up." You're saying the same thing twice essentially. Can you be more succinct?
  • Team Options
    • Why does Ferrothorn have good defensive synergy?
    • What utility does Heatran bring?
    • What else can the Ground-types do for Gyarados? Ferrothorn also tanks Rock and Electric, so I'm wondering why they're mentioned.
    • What about a cleric? Gyarados hates all status as residual burns and poison make its job harder.
    • This set is also walled by Quagsire. Who might help with that? (Hint hint you mentioned it by name already.)
Set - Dragon Dance
  • I find the Mega Dance set much more effective and would prefer to see it moved ahead of this one.
  • Dragon Dance is the crux of this set and should be listed as the first move.
  • Moves
    • Mentioning STAB coverage should go in the Overview. Tell me more about specific moves here instead.
    • I see no mention of Crabhammer.
  • Set Details
    • You're missing a verb in the first bullet. "144 Speed EVs allow it to beat ..."
    • Tell me about my item choices.
  • Usage Tips
    • "Gyarados can switch in and setup on support pokemon like Landorus-T and Heatran because of its ability and bulk." And its immunity/resistances to their common STAB attacks.
    • The Taunt bullet is redundant; you already told us what it does. Tell use how to use it.
  • Team Options
    • Instead of saying "direct approach" with Magnezone, be specific if you mean "offensive" or "trapper."
    • Why do Excadrill and Gyarados share good defensive synergy?
    • Because this set carries many ways to handle status, not mentioning a Cleric sounds okay unless you want to provide options should Lum fail.
Set - Mega Dragon Dance
  • I don't think Crunch is viable enough to warrant its own slash with Roost. If anything it should be slashed with Crabhammer, but Water is preferred for hitting more targets SE. Move Crunch to Moves.
  • I had success with DD/Crab/Rest/Sleep Talk during the days of Greninja. It struggles with Taunt but isn't crippled by status in the long run. If it's not given mention on this set, I'd like to see it in OO.
  • Moves
    • I'd say that Waterfall is an option, however, if the lower accuracy is a turn-off. Plus the flinch chance can come in handy after a Speed boost.
    • Here is where you mention Crunch if you want. Tbh I'd even move it to OO.
    • You didn't talk about Taunt.
  • Set Details
    • Be more specific with Mold Breaker. It doesn't just ignore Unaware. (For example Sturdy is another relevant ability it bypasses.)
  • Usage Tips
    • This is good!
  • Team Options
    • Again, a cleric might be good here in case you get statused pre-sub/Taunt.
Strategy Comments
  • OO
    • I haven't used it but Scald might be nice to bring burn utility to a set. It's rather weak, however.
    • It has access to Defog. Is that worth mentioning?
  • Cs & Cs
    • Quagsire should be under Water-types.
    • Be specific with the physical walls section. What can they do to Gyarados?
    • How about Faster Status? It can be burned, Taunted, and put to sleep by Sableye; put to sleep by Darkrai; and burned, Taunted by Gengar, sometimes even after +1.
Nice job overall! The biggest focus of this check is to be more specific.

QC 2 of 3.
 
Last edited:

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
I don't know if we're supposed to post Leftovers numbers. SR numbers are okay from what I understand. unfixable ?
I always though Leftovers numbers were strictly better than SR numbers because the extra HP you gain from lefties cancels out the extra damage from SR, netting an overall higher percentage hp gain, but if its not allowed i'll remove it.

Anyways, sorry for the delay, I underestimated the amount of time this would take and got caught up in other irl things. I'll try to be more prompt in my delivery next time.

Ready for QC #3!
 

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
I just noticed that I messed up and the number I put wasn't even a leftovers number anyways, so I'll just remove it.
 
So before I go into QCing any of the analysis that you have done, just doing a read over there are some issues I have with the overall structure of this, and I've talked to both unfixable and Eevee General, and we agreed that there needs to be changes. The first set should not be a regular Gyarados set, but be a Mega set, to reflect the positioning in the viability rankings. Also there shouldn't be a regular DD set on its own, since it is in much the same position as Scizor, where the only reason to run regular DD is because the mega slot isn't open, so it should only get a mention. However, I want to see at least to variations of DD, one mono-attacking and one with two attacks (Crunch/EQ and MAYBE BB as a pre mevo option). Finally, the Sp. Def set listed should be changed to Def., since it walls a larger quantity of more relevant things, such as Garchomp, Landorus-T, Scizor, and most Normals.

Because of the large changes I'm asking you to make, I'm not going to review the Specially Defensive Set or the Regualar Dragon Dance Set.

Overview

In the first paragraph, when you discuss Intimidate, specifically mention that it lets you force FakeSpeeders out or turn something into setup fodder, and move the mention of Heatran closer to where you talk about typing, because to me it sounds like Intimidate makes you a Heatran check.
In the second paragraph, make sure that if you specifically mention Brave Bird, that you also mention gaining Crunch (for Secondary STAB) and Mold Breaker (for Quagsire and Clefable) Earthquake (for Rotom-W).
When talking about exploitable weaknesses, specifically mention how well Sableye checks setup variants not carrying Sub. I don't like mentioning Mega's weaknesses to an attack like U-turn, since you want to hold back the Mega for the most part, but that's how I use Gyara, and more of a subjective change for you to consider.
Mega Dragon Dance

For the purpose of this analysis, I'm going to treat this as the Mono attacking set

Moves:
Drop the mention of Crunch since this will be mono attacking​
Set Details:
Drop mention of Fake Out breaking Substitutes entirely, since that's irrelevant. When talking about Mold Breaker, also mention Water Absorb/ Storm Drain.​
Usage Tips:
Also mention that you can easily set up on the likes of Garchomp, Landorus, and other grounds before mega evolving. when saying what Substitute protects you from, also note the protection from revenge killing by FakeSpeeders.​
Team Options:
Talk about other sweepers that synergize well with Gyarados, like Togekiss, Serperior (Don't care about Sableye, and can beat grasses and bulky waters, repsectively), and Tyranitar (appreciates having something to clear Landorus-T). Also when talking about hazard clearing, mention a special based pokemon, like Thundurus or Latios.​

Strategy Comments

Other Options: Since the second DD set will have EQ on it, remove the mention here. When justifying why Defog is bad on Gyarados, also note that it is naturally slow so it may have to take two hits before its able to defog, and 3 before it can Roost.
Because of the quantity of changes I'm asking for, tag me once you've implemented so I can look over it one more time before I approve.
 
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Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
ARGH sorry for the huge delay ended up procrastinating and then going on a long trip and not being able to work on this ;;

ellipse ready for another go at it.

Also I wouldn't put being slow as a reason not to use defog, as a whole lot of defog users / spinners are pretty slow, like Scizor, Pory2, Skarm.
 
Overview:
Looks great, only small changes are needed here. Add either Earthquake or Precipice Blades to the first sentence about common moves, and if you think four examples is too many, drop V-Create. In the last paragraph when you say how bad its electric weakness is, downplay that a little while also mentioning its rock weakness as well.​
Mono Attacking Dragon Dance
Change the spread so that it outspeeds positive base 108, taking away from either the Def or HP. I'd think that the Def EVs are less neccessary, sicne HP will help both sides of your bulk, unless there's something that I'm not seeing in set details which needs this much Defense investment.
Set Comments
Moves: Thinking about it, Waterfall should probably be slashed behind Crabhammer, since this set aims to get large amounts of boosts rather than just 1 or 2, so the loss in power is negligible. Give the readers a better explanation of why Substitute is better than Taunt (because it can be used preemptively to beat Pranksters, as well as blocking almost all the same things that Taunt does). Since Roost is one of only two unslashed moves, place it higher in your order (Slot 1 or 2). Add another reason to using Roost is that it allows Gyarados to come in and out before a sweep or attempt to multiple times, as well as letting it Shrug off repeated FakeSpeed since its so bulky.
Set Details: Again, drop any mention of someone trying to to use Fake Out on a Substitute. If someone does use Fake Out on a Sub, regardless of whether it breaks or not, the pokemon behind the Sub will not flinch. This means that Extremespeed will always be used if the pokemon is behind a Sub (Also Guts Ursaring is the strongest FakeSpeed user in the tier). Since neither Gengar nor Latios can beat a bulky DD set 1v1 (bar Dbond, wisp, or Tbolt, two of which are uncommon, and one that can be worked around), don't list the alternate speed possibilities. Rather than saying a fully defensive spread weakens your sweeping possibilities, say that it leaves you more vulnerable over time or in the long term, since it will take Gyarados longer for it to set up enough to sweep.
Usage Tips: I don't think you need to talk about it talking too much damage early on, since the beauty of Roost is that it allows normal Gyarados to switch in often on things like Landorus-T or Stoutland and just act as their counter, or the counter to other physical pokemon. I think that the only caveat that you give the users is that you need to ensure that it doesn't get status'd. When talking about Substitute, also say that it blocks a Transform from Chansey, since you can 2HKO while it takes the turn to Seismic Toss your Sub.
Team Options: Add Stoutland to good hazard clearers. Add Serperior as well, since after Gyarados tries to sweep, Serp can often come through and cleanup the rest, especially since teams aren't usually equipped to handle both (unaware pokemon and having lots of steels can't beat Gyarados, while physically biased teams and Fast RKers lose to SporeSubSerp).​
Offensive Dragon Dance
Change the speed so that it outspeeds AT LEAST Timid Thundurus at +1, since that is the most relevant Electric in the tier, and the whole set falls apart if Thundy can threaten a kill rather than just a TWave.
Set Comments
Moves: When talking about the coverage options, make the point (in your own words) that EQ hits more relevant pokemon (Rotom-W, Heatran & steels past King's shield) while Crunch is generally stronger, but the choice is because Crabhammer is 90% going to be the move you want to click in a given situation. You need to expand on what each support move brings to the set. Taunt allows Gyarados to come in on defensive pokemon and force them to switch out, as well as letting Gyarados just act as a wallbreaker without setting up, and creates more opportunities to DD. Sub does all the same things as on the other set, so its still a fine option, but I think it should be the third slash since the set has no recovery and handing the opponent a quarter of Gyarados' HP makes it much easier for them. Roost gives Gyarados more longevity, and allows it to be played more defensively in the early game as a wall and check to certain threats.
Set Details: Give more description as to why having access to Mega Gyarados is important beyond just Mold Breaker. Also mention what items can be used if the mega slot is occupied.
Usage Tips: When you say KO'd at +1 attack, also say +1 speed since thats often just as important. Integrate the additions about the utility moves I mentioned earlier here as well.
Team Options: Don't say that it has similar support as the other set, list the things it likes again. Again, Serperior is something that you can say pairs well with it. When you mention Raikou, also say Thundurus-T and specifically name Thundurus as the pokemon that you are trying to beat. What does Porygon-2 do?​

Defensive
I feel like Gyaradosite should be slashed behind Leftovers, because the ability to change types is still super useful, and it doesn't do that much worse losing Leftovers recovery, and a team could use this, especially now, as a Hoopa-U check. Obviously, the readers should be informed that if the team wants a different Mega, that the other Mega should be prioritized rather than having Mega on this specific set.
Set Comments
Moves: When saying what Crabhammer does, since an uninvested Crabhammer is still very strong, you don't need to say that its specifically for certain things that it checks, but that its there just for offensive presence. When talking about Roar V Dragon Tail, make sure you let the readers know why Roar is a better option than Dragon Tail, specifically mentioning Togekiss (A Sub variant would ignore Twave) and its immunity. Why is having phazing more important than secondary STAB?
Set Details: What type of Azumarill does this set outspeed? When saying why its not specially defensive, say that it can already beat them with a defensive spread (This set takes 41 max from Blue Flare in the sun, and 35 max from Owing)
Usage Tips: Since most of the things that this Gyarados will be doing is Crabhammer whittling, phazing, and spreading paralysis, its not as important too keep this set free from status, and since the two setup sets above are extremely afraid of status, you should let the readers know this distinction.
Team Options: If you discuss clerics, Ferrothorn can perform that role as well, and also Celebi which can provide helpful spores and tempo with U-Turn.​
Strategy Comments
Other Options: Rather than saying "more relevant coverage than it already gets" be specific and say more relevant than those listed above. When discussing Water Shuriken, the things that will hit you at +1 priority will be, at strongest, a Mach Punch from a Terrakion post mega, which is uncommon, and still fairly weak (52% at most, on less bulky versions). On top of that, having a few Dragon Dance boosts is often accomplishing the same level as Shuriken. Let the readers know this. On Defog, the response to me saying that it being slow means that it can't do hazard cleaning well (to which you listed many slow cleaners), is that its being slow AND weak to rocks, so if you switch in on a resisted or safe hit with rocks up, you'll take maybe around 50% (Adamant Silk Scarf Stoutland Extremespeed does 21-25). If you get hit again, then you've lost around 3/4 of your health, and will probably be KO'd if you stay in, forcing you to switch before you can Roost. Alternatively, you Roost first, but then are forced out as they switch into something that can threaten you. Add Brave Bird as a possible move to use on the second DD set for purely pre M-evo purposes

Checks and Counters: On bulky waters, don't say Flying coverage, since no set mentions a Flying type move, so change it to Crunch. Rotom-W if its not carrying EQ. Note most fast electric Types (Thundurus, Raikou, Mega Manectric) outspeed both of the listed spreads as is, so that should either be noted since they can come in and KO on a DD, or the spreads should change as mentioned above. Not sure where, but I feel like SashKazam should be mentioned somewhere,since it is the best at stopping non multi hit sweepers.
Sorry about the delay, but QC 3/3 has finally arrived for you!
 

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